John we had to free our minds to get these concepts. But on to tonights topic. Is the United States about to fall as rome did . It is a barbarian city. Is this our future . First we hear from a conservative, a historian, and a libertarian. We have some libertarians leading. This historian, carl richard, and matt kibbe fights the government. Matt, are we becoming rome . I think that we are. I think that the parallels are quite ominous. The expansion of foreign policy, the arrogance of executive power taking over our country. But i do think we have a chance to stop it. I believe that their similarities with the fall of rome and the republic they are in engagement of political leaders and so on. I see some of that. John corruption, etc. . It is sort of under the table corruption. But it doesnt bother me as much as the over things. For instance, the roman constitution had a to permit limited to one year and people just kept voting for this unconstitutional leader. John now we have Congress Passing laws that havent read. Thats right, we had president s of both parties saying that i am not for certain about these laws. Taking property, selling it to someone else, and yet you can always find parallels. But the fact that we are meeting come i think it shows the antidote is coming about. We, the people, we have not gone the way that the romans did and they were not passive. And they may try to feed the us to the lions, but we believe in free enterprise. We are going to face the lions. [cheers] [applause] [cheers] [applause] john that is a happy thought. I wish that i were as optimistic as you are. But i fear that we are rome. How many of you think that we are going down the tube how many think that we are in deep trouble . And how many think that we will turn it around . They cant both be true. But again, you are not in the audience. Because your libertarians, rht . [laughter] john so Walking Around here people investing in gold, as a this and that, patronizing dead austrian communists. [laughter] john you have to understand why we get a reputation as wrong and different. Is this unfair . Is this fair . No. John come on, isnt is mostly badly dressed men . [laughter] john its people who care about numbers, less about how they look the epitome of it. Is this unfair . That they look like geeks . Well, youre sounding like my opponents. You could describe our forefathers in the same way and you of all people should know whicshould look at the substance. [cheers] [applause] john this is the optimism that makes america possible. When i look at your sideburns, and i think people would say that this is not a normal guy. [laughter] definitely guilty as charged. We are different because we have the looks. [laughter] [cheers] [applause] [laughter] [cheers] [applause] that but social awkwardness is not a sin in defense of liberty. John i am socially awkward as well. I overcome it if i have to. But what is it about many of the people who like to analyze the opposite . Is a personality type . Economists would argue that everything we do when we fight for freedom and show up at rallies, when we care about the future of our country, economists will say that is irrational. The we happen to think it is the best thing to do because we care not only about our country, but her future, our kids future, that is not normal in this country. That is what we have to face. It is part of our culture and part of our entrepreneurs. Reedom is about. Hope to do it better next time. John well, we should talk about the perspective of the comparing america to rome. What do you think . They have i debt and high valuation of currency. The socalled silver coin is only 2 silver. That is how they devalued it. Charles john coming up, gladiators devalued currency. Otherwise, america isjust too much like rome. [cheers] [applause] [cheers] [applause] thank you orville and wilbur. Amelia. Neil and buzz for teaching us that you cant create the future. By clinging to the past. And with that youre history. Instead of looking behind. Delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions. In everything from the best experiences below. To the finest comforts above. Were not simply saluting history. Were making it. Do you mind grabbing my phone and opening the capital one purchase eraser . I need to redeem some venture miles before my demise. Okay. Its easy to erase any recent travel expense i want. Just pick that flight right there. Mmm hmmm. Give it a few taps, and. Its taken care of. This is pretty easy, and i see it works on hotels too. You bet. Now if you like that, press the red button otop. How did he not see that coming . Whats in your wallet . How did he not see that coming . Nascar is about excitement. But tracking all the action and hearing everything from our marketing partners, the media and millions of fans on social media cabe a challenge. Thats why we partnered with hp to build the new nascar fan and media engagement center. Hps Technology Helps us turn millions of tweets, posts and stories into realtime Business Insights that help nascar win with our fans. Its delicious. So now weve turned her toffee into a business. My goal was to take an idea and make it happen. Im janet long and i formed my Toffee Company through legalzoom. Never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. Go to legalzoom. Com today and make your business dream a reality. At legalzoom. Com we put the law on your side. Yeah. I heard about progressivs name your price tool . I guess you can tell them how much you want to pay d it gives you a range of options to choose from. Huh . Im looking at it right now. Oh, yeah . Yeah. Whats the. Guest room situation . The name your price tool, making the world a little more progressive. John welcomeback to freedom fest. Now, the welfare state. I didnt know that, but i came to this and the two people who educated me include charles murray, an author about the destructiveness of welfare. And there he i reread from the foundation for economic education. Larry, i learned from you that this begin about halfway through the roman empire. The government gave away the subsidized treatment halfprice. But the problem is they couldnt stop it there and later there was a man who ran for the office of the tribunal for the masses. And it was downhill from there. They gradually give stuff away with a steady increase. Including with other staples of the roman diet. John people would show up in this way . Yes, they had a test and they got away with it so that anyone could fill up and get this free stuff. And they decided that you had to be edited by the state. Well, not everybody, but they started Public Schools . Well, it was much later. Largely with homeschooling. In the first public had was about 250 bc and they were not funded by the government. John and the greeks actually mocked him for being backwards about that . Yes, of course they did last anywhere near as long. You have educated us about welfare and the handouts. Do you see parallels with rome . Yes, if you take a look at Roman Society that started to dictate, it is not just because of theewelfare state and the people on the bottom, it is also because the people on the top who isolated lives from the rest. I find parallels in the United States versus rome very interesting. s. John we have a lot of unintended consequences. We just get rid of it . Youre pretty hardcore, i assume. Should america get rid of all handouts . [cheers] [applause] john what would happen the first time somebody did this . They say charity. Charles murray, what is your answer . Well, i think in fact if we got rid of the entire welfare state, that the ability of the wealthy society to deal with the problems wouldwork. I dont think it is within the realm of possibility for an advanced society with as much wealth to ever do that politically. I think that libertarians will have to strike a grand compromise. In affecting the we will give you a big spending if you will give us freedom from interference. I would say use of guaranteed basic income for everyone under 21 years old and known bank account, and let people take their lives back into their own hands. They will have the wherewithal that they can deal with this and if thedo not do it, they will have to talk with friends and Area Neighbors and churches and in the community and they want to make their case. I think that is the better way to go. John you wrote a book about this. It is called in our hands. His better book is in pursuit of happiness and better government. So youre telling me that the social workers, the New York Times reporter will go on and say that youre going to let this womans children starve . Its not their fault and we have a whole new program. Heres what youre going to have. Youre going to have someone who spends it up in the first two weeks and then theyd are going to say that gee, we dont have any money. You know, he has to go to the people the people and say that i really need help and then saying that there and let you down. We will introduce once again the kinds of human connections that are the only way to this. Uniteds defense ver let people die on the streets. Now we have bureaucrats that cannot make the distinction between someone who needs a kick in the pants and someone who needs a pat on the back. We will put these in the back of human relationships, whereby you can apply this stigma come all the rest which can make the problems solvable. John there were these mutual aid societies everywhere. It is not the business of the government. This was the case in most of roman history, everybody could line up to these things which contributed to the ultimate bankruptcy. John look at how the poverty line drops but then the wine was just as sharp. People were lifting themselves out of poverty. Government kept improving and then stopped. The great Untold Stories ttat there was a miracle at the end of world war ii in the early 1960s. It has kept them about 40 below the poverty line to about 20 . It continues to go down for a couple of years and it flattens out. We change the rules of the game that made it profitable for low income people, and then it seemed like you know, it worked for a while and en we realized it didnt. The politicians pay the fare and that is exactly what has happened. Those who did notnnn7 friday night, buddy. You are gonna need a wingman. And my cash back keeps the party going. But my Airline Miles take it worldwide. [ male announcer ] it shouldnt be this hard. With creditcards. Com, its easy to search hundreds of cards and apply online. Creditcards. Com. John welcome back to this special edition of stossel. We are in las vegas for freedom fest. Most people here are libertarians and we want to shrink government. We dont like taxes. We need National Defense and pollution control rules. There are some things that most of us say government must. I see why. It is tough. Our taxes always seem to go up. Grover norquist, who is head of americans for tax reform persuaded politicians never raise taxes. And steve moore is with us fm the wall street journal. So rome had high tax rates . Not always. Efforts were about 400 years they had no real direct internal taxes. Because they looted their neighbors. John we are not advocating that. [laughter] even that wasnt enough. So they had dramatically higher taxes. Taxes started with tariffs. Constantine had the first one. Property taxes, people were actually abandoning their property. Things got towards the end, very rough and its a part of why things did not work. One penalty of being sold and slavery. Or killed. That is what they do and the modernday irs. The only way they would get it was to sell into slavery to get currency. John by 1 was the highest income tax. Over is exactly right. They kept collecting more and more money in the outlying areas and there wassa massive revolt. That is happening in america today. People are sick and tired of seeing their tax dollars in washington. That is one of the reasons that is the great thing about america. The federal government did not create this with the state. Reaction that they had to collecting the taxes was tax farmers. It was so bad that in one revolt john we do not advocate this on the show. It was a 40 year war. But it was clearly a erious tax revolt. To your point, when you asked me what 1 was, when we created the federal income tax back in 1915, the top income tax rate went to 7 . Within 10 years they went from 7 to 70 that is why i have always believed that steve forbes had it right. We ought to go back with all the deductions and loopholes and make it as simple as possible. But dont create all of these special interest groups. The people most opposed to the flat tax, it is people who are against it and probably from washington. The bricks in london were paying 20 . It is expensive. I like to percent rather than 18 . [applause] john to be clear, we are at 40 for state and local. That is right, we function fairly well beyond that. The reason the british attacks in 20 is because they are running an empire the one coming up, when government cant raise taxes anymore. They find other ways, like devaluing the currency. But it didnt work out so well for rome. That is coming up next the pursuit of a better tomorrow is something we all share. But who can help you find your own path . Who can build you a plan, not just a pie chart . Who can help keep your investments on course, nwhatever lies ahead . That someone is a Morgan Stanley financial advisor. And were ready to work for you. John welcome back to the freedom fest conference. The worlds biggest gathering of people even many politicians are made mad by libertarians. Politicians have found sneaky ways to do spending. Roman emperors molests over and coins, and that cost money. A bushel of wheat that cost the roman dollars cost 120,000. Then powell and Jeffrey Tucker join the currency debate thing that we better be ccreful that the american dollar is already going down. What do you think . I fear that inflation ii low. Are you kidding me . Grandmothers are rolling over in their graves right now. Any young person has heard someone say i remember when not cost a nickel. The currency has lost its value. It takes 23 to buy today what 1 dollar could back in 1913. John and had to go all the way back, paul krugman would tell you that inflation is 2 . But this isnt a big mystery. They started paying interest on the extra reserves. If that actually gets went out, then we will see higher prices. It is a serious issue. You can get a return on your money anymore for savings. That is precisely what we are discouraging. John lets go back to the rome parallel. They traded and they prospered and they did what most politicians do. He empire kept expanding and eventually run 180 day ahead the maximum extent of the empire so over time this was the downfall of rome. A Big Government destroying rome. The barbarians came as the government was collapsing over its own weight. John with the next emperor, this is 85 and all the way down it ended up being 15 thousands. The had this kind of cartel arrangement and we see the quality diminish over 100 years. John a lot of people get worked up because they say by and large america is doing pretty well. People thought the Real Estate Market are doing pretty well. Especially with a government that refuses to fund itsf. So as long as the fed is there with its unlimited credit card to always pay for everything, there is no default or. When inflation comes, then what will the government do . Ronin issued wage and price controls. The United States government has are redundant. A decade of high inflation in the 1970s and price control under nixon. Nixon was kind of a softy compared to the roman emperors. He made it punishable by death. The products not coming together. John and they would let you change jobs either. Constantine said anyone who violates this may be bound with chains and reduced to eight servitude condition. Some people are eager to turn a profit even on blessings from the gods. It urges us to set a limit. I hate when people use greed to explain something. It is constant and always there. It doesnt work like that. John one solutn some people say what the government playing with the currency. It didnt really work. The problem is for the libertarian audience, how many of you own gold . Either actual gold or investment. Just about everybody we wouldnt have the government involved at all. Gold has fallen in some of the people lost a lot of money. Maybe this is advice to. It is two separate things here along with speculation. It doesnt mean that you are recommending this as an investment. It entirely depends on what the expectations of the future. Everyone else has a standard. John what about big coins . It was one in a long succession. John and equates the use those of you that dont know, an internet form of currency that is limiting protection against devaluing dollars. It is a currency for the digital age. The most plausible things will they allow me to extend of anyone in the world in Central Africa even if you dont have the ability to exchange the money. No, that wont happen. John on that note, thank you both. Coming up, roman emperors spent big bucks on stadiums like the coliseum, sometimes fighting gladder aiders and sometimes fighting animals. There are american equivalents to that as well. We will have that thank you orville and wilbur. Amelia. Neil and buzz for teaching us that you cant create the future. By clinging to the past. And with that youre history. Instead of looking behind. Delta is looking beyond. 80 thousd of us investing billions. In everything from the best experiences below. To the finest comforts above. Were not simply saluting history. Were making it. Why let erectile dysfunction get in your way . Talk to your doctor about viagra. Ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. Do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pai it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. Side effects include headache, flushing, upset stomach, and abnormal vision. To avoid longterm injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. Stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away, if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. This is the age of taking action. Viagra. Talk to yo doctor. John welcome back to freedom fest. The question are we rome . Being on the edge of collapse. Trying to keep people happy, it offers distractions and bribes. One fellow called it cheerier races or gladiators fighting to the death. Now, america doesnt allow that yet. But jc bradbury says that sometimes it takes the form of sports stadiums. Well, its like we need people to collect teams together to keep us happy. But we are all going to be richer. John and say that they pay for themselves, but they dont. Time after time they said that they would get revenue and it didnt happen. I think the thing that it has been studied so much. John economist like you have explained it. They have eight home games a year. That is not a positive comment. That is saying that they are being placated. I think that sports are popular anything, why dont i go ahead and support this. John lets go back to the rome parallel. Our stadiums paled to what romans did. Were they keeping the people pacified because they were getting ticked off . It wasnt because they were ticked off, but some form of entertainment was used to distract us. I like football, really going to focus on that. Im not going to focus on the schools are the other things that may be going on. But it is certainly something that individuals can relate to. Its a positive thing for our community and that is why it is so popular with politicians spew and most gladiators were slaves, prisoners of war. 90 of them survived the fight because it would be expensive to the owne of this wave if they wee killed. Yes, ut you have to pay the owner so it is something that people enjoy and want them to see. So it is sort of a difference in the way that we view this than they were once viewed. John the arrogance of the emperors and priests. 169 bc. African lions and leopards, elephants were hunted down in a single today show. Tigers and crocodiles and drafts and hippopotamuses. The emperor would sometimes kill them himself. Only today we have club seats luxury boxes and the rest. But its definitely the same thing. This morning extravagant. John thank you both so much. John thank you both so much. We wi any last requests mr. Baldwin . Do you mind grabbing my phone and opening the capital one puhase eraser . I need to redeem some venture miles before my demise. Okay. Its easy to erase any recent travel expense i want. Just pick that flight right there. Mmm hmmm. Give it a few taps, and. Its taken care of. This is pretty easy, and i see it works on hotels too. You bet. Now if you like that, press the red button on top. How did he not see that coming . Whats in your wallet . How did he not see that coming . Nascar is about excitement. But tracking all the action and hearing everything from our marketing partners, the media and millions of fans on social media can be a challenge. Thats why we partnered with hp to build the new nascar fan and media engagement center. Hps Technology Helps us turn millions of tweets, posts and stories into realtime Business Insights that help nascar win with our fans. Its delicious. So now weve turned her toffee into a business. My goal was to take an idea and make it happen. Im janet long and i formed my Toffee Company through legalzoom. Never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. Go to legalzoom. Com today and make your business dream a reality. At legalzoom. Com we put the law on your side. John is america wrong . No, thankfully we are not as bad. In a hundred different ways. Our taxes are actually higher than most, but we dont have slaves. We also dont kill people for sports. When we go to war, misguided or not, we do not conquer or plunder. When we win, we usually leave. Poor people live better than the emperors there. We have flush toilets, longer lives, painkillers, airconditioning. Our president s actually leave office voluntarily. Although our current president waste money on extravagant travel, era was much worse. He nev wore the same clothes twice. From all corners of the world, that number could to file them. Elagabalus said that he made his favorite senator a horse. As depicted here. You treat him as your peer. John even president obama wouldnt do that. [laughter] [applause] so arrogant as our politicians are, they were at least not emperors who like this tell ortiz and executed a senators wife who didnt show up. But it matts because umpires do crumble. Rome lasted the longest of all of them. It lasted less than 600 years than the spanish and as did the british. We lasted less than 300 years. We are doing better than alexander the great. His empire only lasted 300 years. But we have accomplished amazing things. Amazing prosperity. We just cant take it for granted because free and prosperous is not the natural state of things and in Human History it is rare. We are now starting to look a lot like rome and we ought to worry about that. That is our show, thank you for coming. We will see you next week. [applause] [cheers] the big story, of course, is syria, but the big story that really matters to us is jobs, or the lack of them, or the lack of goodpaying jobs. The unemployment numbers for august are out, so were digging into the report to show you what is really going on with the job recovery. Right here, right now. From the Fox Business Network headquarters in new york city, its the tom sullivan show. Heres your host, tom sullivan. Thanks for joining us. Heres what i have at the top of the stack. Once again the monthly jobs report was, well, to say the least, disappointing. 169,000 payrolls were added in august, the unemployment r