I dont know why theyre still taking market share. Starbucks didnt do so well. I like this major breakout. Finally, first solar, how i learned to love the bomb. No, i hate the way the government is doing it, but i accept it for the next four years theyre going to pile so much money into this area, this stock probably takes off big time. Adam . I dont like going against charles when it comes to stock picking any of the time. But the one that i love the most here, charles, is first solar. I think solar i a great idea, but this Company Loses money and gets beaten up by the chinese. I would stay away. The chinese are kicked out of the market. They got those tariffs. Details, details. Dave is on now. Well, if at first you dont succeed today no area holds more promise than our investments in american energy. The president making new calls for more green spending. The same week a government report revealing some major misuse in a green grant. 150 million taxpayer dollars going to electric Battery Company where inspectors found employees playing video games, card games, cards, working at animal shelters, all while on the clock. And the only batteries they building, so far theyre in south korea. We keep hearing stories like this. So at a time when were desperately looking for places to cut the federal budget, is this a Perfect Place to start . Hi, everybody. Welcome to forbes on fox. Lets go in with steve forks, rick you thinker, elizabeth mcdonald, morgan brennan, rich carlguard and mike. Steve, if you want to cut waste, is this the place to start . Sure, david. Green energy a great place to save green dollars. If green energy had any promise, entrepreneurs would be in on it. In terms of clean energy, we have it in our backyard with natural gas, remove obstacles to that, well have all the ean energy we want and need and export it. Rick, youre against government waste. This was an incredibly wasful program. Is this the place we should start cutting . I actually came up with a very short quote that i think speaks to this point better than i could ever hope to. So im gog read it. Federal investment in science and basic research has led to numerous innovations and commercial successes from laser lasers, from the internet to mri scanners. Do you know who said that . Mitt romney in his book no apology, the case for american greatness. That is the point. Look, government has always been involved in our greatest progress, theyre always going to be involved. All the things we count on today, government played a role in. There have always been the sad saps and the nay sayers who want to just not move forward, leave things as they are. These investments are critical. And by the way, the actual losses that we sustained in this clean energy pporting programs, 3. 6 have gone wrong. Thats about a third of what the estimate was mike, the lists are as long as my a. Companies like a 123. Its not just solyndra. Evergreen solar, beacon power. Weve long list of companies that have either failed or are failing that weve tried to pump up with government money. David, with my research, i found 14 failing solar companie that have already cost taxpayers over 3 billion. If president obama wants to play venture capitalist with taxpayer money, he should remember this that the type of progress that rick is alluding to is in early stage r and d. Its not in giving huge vast sums of taxpayer money for companies to operate and tax credits forever. This is the big problem for obama. The private sector, which would buy these goods, doesnt want them. Perfect example of that, morgan, is electric cars. They keep trying to fist electric cs on the american public. They dont want them. Tesla has a new electric car. They have over 400 million in loan guarantees for the federal government. Turns out, according to the new yorkimes, they dont deliver what they promise. Yeah. Im going to stay away electric that issue right now for a little bit. What i am gog say is, yes, we are seeing a lot of waste and i do think there is a lot of room to streamline that waste. But i dont think we should be cutting off all green spending. Going back to president obama and what he pitched this week in his state of the union speech, hes talk being a 2 billion Clean Energy Transportation fund. Yes, he talks about electric vehicles. I have my issues with those. But hes also talking about going back to steves point, natural gas and domestically produced biofuel. If we want toompete against on the world stage, against china or india or brazil, then we need to be look at those areas. We need in the gas. I wish he would tell the epa that. Rich, what about the argument that rick made, which is were always hearing about government being the pioneer, that government is the seed capital for innovation. Is that true . He makes half a point, you know. But the structure is all wrong. You look so many of the examples that rick talked about, chiefly the internet came through military r and d. Military r and d al gore. Military r and d works because there is a sense of urgency. There is an exist tensionial threat. The Actual Development of the companies, when john f. Kennedy said were going to put a man on the moon by the end of the 1960, the reason that we were able to do so and leap ahead of the soviet union is because of the Semiconductor Companies in silicon valley. Yeah, the military bought a lot of semiconductor tips during that period. But guess what . These were privately funded companies and they had p and ls they had to worry about. Thats the key difference between these Green Technology boondoggles. So e mac, are they all boondoggles . Do they pay off or not . Clearly the one we mentioned at the beginning is a boondoggle. The ones we have now are boondoggles. I agree with rick. The technologies that seem to be working coming out of the government come from nasa or the military. And thats what were seeing working. Of course, a lot of spaghetti taxpayer dollars thrown against the wall. The market dont want electric cars or electric battery cars. It leaves them feeling like theyll be stranded in the woods without any gas or any power to get out of the woods. It stresses them out. So we talk a lot also about nat gas, yes, its helped by the federal government, but that was a resource that was sitting there. Electric batteries had to be developed by people with a lot of taxpayer money. Morgan, even folks like from the washington post, charles lane, was talking about how americans just dont want electric cars. For all the money we pour, for all the tax breaks we give to people who buy them, Americans Still dont want them because they deliver inferior performance at a much higher cost, like much of what the government does. Yeah. So going back to my point, we streamline where were make these investments and there is a wealth of data that shows that some of these investments have been very wasteful. Going back to natural gas, there is a lot more the goverent can do. Great example, we should be building out infrastructure with some of our green money to be ship to go places like china where demand is skyrocketing. A big battle over that right now. The question is, which side the president will come down on. But steve, the fact is that so often behar lip Service Given to things like natural gas. But look where theyre spending the money and its on these battery issues that always fail, or wind mills that dont perform as theyre claim. Yeah. Rich made a good point about r and d, government has a role in r and d. But in terms of development, its got to be the private sector and liquefied natural gas, the government will block a lot of those facility attention, even though some are up and ready to go. So weve got a huge market. Here and around the world. Lets remove the obstacles. That is clean energy. We have it already. Rick, whaabout that . Natural gas, if we want to go with some kind of Government Support for things that will get us independent from the oil sheikhs, go with natural gas. I have no problem with natural gas. The president has it right with all of the above. The president says that, but hes not doing it thats the point. Tell that to the epa. Did you know that when the original car was invented, when it came about, americans didnt respond to it. They thought the horse and buggies were fine. So you think [ laughter ] you think eventually americans will grow to love the electric hold on a second. Eventually american also grow to love the electrical car . Yes, it will. Until that happens, we have to pour all these billions into it. Do you agree, steve . Absolutely not. Entrepreneurs will do it. What made the car something working people could afford was henry ford, he did not work for the raw government, got no money from the south government. He did it on his own and thats wait it should be done. There is no venture capitalist who is going to put in their portfolio all of those battery orated cars because they know the markets dont want it because people get stressed out. They know theyll be stranded if the battery runs out. People want gas. These are going to be expensive toys to drive to the neighborho grocery store. Rich, the fact is hold on a second. We have another example of this, which is wind power. For 20 years we have been subsidizing wind power. We just agreed to spend another 12 billion on wind power in the last budget deal that was made. And over 20 years, it cost more to get energy from wind than it did 20 years ago before we began, rich. Yeah, you know, funny enough you mention that. On saturday i was riding my bike where there are all kinds of wind mills in northern california. It was so windy, i almost got blown off my bicycle and yet, not a single wind mill was turning. Explain that one. I dont think those are ever going to pay off. We got to leave it at that. Coming up next, one college is getting a lot of praise for helping struggling graduates repay their loans. This is a trend thatay take hold across all schools, so why dont the forbes folks like it . The flip side is fox news channel. Cant find a high paying job and bogged down with doesnt loan debt . One college is ready to help. Spring Arbor University in michigan is promising incoming freshmen it will pay off their Student Loans if they cant find a job on graduation that pays more than 20 grand a year. Sounds good, right . John says wrong. John, explain the flip side. This is just a terrible idea. Its very anticollege student, too. What you want senior year, realistically is to be scared to death if you cant find a job, you cant pay off your loans. Here is a program that will tell students dont worry what happens senior year. Worst case, well cover your down side. Its so antistudent and its not going to go national. There is no way. So john is all for the fear factor, the fear factor is what gets people out there to get a good job. It scared me just listening to him. I love this idea. I think its great. Finally a private college stepping up and saying, lets think about the american family. Lets think about the students first. I wish other colleges would cut tuition first and not gouge american families. But i think this only works at the private level because weve got these public universities operating on the taxpayer nickel. I dont think the taxpayer will go for that. Steve. A good experiment or not . They have a right to make that experiment. But why dont they use that money to cut the tuition in the first place . Not have that disincentive to find the better paying job. How about getting more bloat out of not just that college. Im sure there is a little bit, but out of universities, which have expanded in terms of their administrative costs because its subsided by the u. S. Government. By the way, david, all of this is going to be academic as Online Education comes on and you get 1,000 what youre paying 50,000 for. Dont tell me that. Im paying 6,000. Morgan, nobody is closer to school debt than you are. You still paying it off . I am, and i will be for 25 years. So im all for this concept. And actually i would even take it a step further and shift it the government like weve seen this idea of loan repainment contingent upon income like we see in the u. K. And australia. Think there is a lot of accountability lacking on the graduation end of student education. And i think more than that, its also the fact that so many of our students are getting educated for jobs that dont exist instead of the ones that do. Mike, what about this idea . This is an idea, david, that must have come from the obama administration. [ laughter ] it pushes redistribution of wealth and disincentives to word of knowledge as john pointed out, why am i going to look for a job when i know that somebody that has a job and pays tuition at the schoolill help pay for my tuition . I dont like this idea. Thats true. Rich, the fact is it may cost more than 20,000 a year to pay off the debt, so maybeheyll say, i wont work for a 20,000 a year for a couple years and let the college pay off my debt. For this little private institution, its a hail mary pass. Steve put his finger on the issue. Online technology will blow away 25 to 50 of colleges over the next ten or 20 years. So why not let them try . Its a private institution. Its a donor if the donor base doesnt like it, theyll let them know soon enough. Draw the line. Dont try it at a public university, but small liberal arts college, private college, why not . Morgan, what about that . If its kept in the private level, are you for extending this into public colleges and getting the government involved . Im definitely for it on the private level. Im not so sure how i feel about it on the public level. If we shift it to the government, id be all for doing this across the board with all loans. There is no such thing as private college. Im interested in johns incentive argument, when you have this massive piled mound of debt. Disinventive. Thats true. You got to get a job to pay off your loan. Thats an interesting part of the argument. Thats the point, you want the fear factor to get a job. Lets end the myth about private colleges. All colleges in the u. S. , with the exception of two that i can think of, are reliant on federal Student Loans to put the students through. So this notion that somehow we can limit it to private schools, we are gog pay for this. Morgan, what about mikes argument about a disincentive, that this will maybe people will be reluctant to get a job for more than 20,000 a year cause they want the college to pay off their debt. The bottom line is people have to pay off their Student Loans. You cant declare bankruptcy on it. We still have the highest Unemployment Rate among young adults right now. I donthink thats going to change. I think americans, young adults that want jobs will get jobs no matter what. They want to be able to work. Last word, the only person still paying off her school debt. Are these union protests outside the capitol the reason why nothing is getting done inside the capitol . The cashin in crew will discuss it. First, a 15 billion Government Program to revamp foreclosed homes. The president s calling it a jobs plan. But will it a new 15 billion plan for homes and jobs. President obama says sprucing up vacant foreclosedhomes will help rebuild the job market. Rich, you say its not going to work. Why not . Because theyre fake jobs. Theyre jobs that dont lead to other jobs. What we should do is create enterise zones that jack kemp talked about, low tax, rates and so forth that incentivized business to come into these bombed out places where there have been tremendous job losses unless you see all these mortgage foreclosures. We need real Economic Growth and some employers who create jobs. Not the government. Rick, is this just another government make work program . It is so not rich. Im going to Say Something to you i rarely say. You are absolutely wrong. My hometown of youngstown, ho o you have seen this in action. This has really happened. They did exactly what the president has suggested here. They tore down all the urban blight. They created parks. They created commercial buildings. Theyve improved residential. And they have come so far. Three years ago, forbes called them one of the greatest dying cities in america. Today the president is talkin about them in the state of the union. They have turned the corner. This actually worked. Im happy to take you all with me to see it. Morgan, could this not only turn communities around, but really create jobs . You know, i love that concept, but its a day late and a dollar short. Were already seeing the private market all over this. About 10 billion estimated by jp morgan from the private sector going into these projects already. We lost 2 Million Construction jobs in the down turn. Weve soon 300,000 add. If you look where theyve been added, thats in new Home Construction and its in trade contractors. So were talking about remodeling and maintenance of buildings already existing. You want to create jobs . Create jobs around infrastructure because those are the construction workers that are still out of work. And steve, the thing about fixer uppers is people buy places that are distressed thinking that if they fix it up them they was, theyll be able to turn around and make a nice profit. Sure. People in the private sector will do those homes a lot faster and cheaper than the government will. And the reason why youngstown is turning around is because ohio has a republican governor who is pro business. [ laughter ] all right. John, what about the specific one, 15 billion is what the president wants to spend. He says it will create jobs and you say . Yeah. Im listeng to rick. He resides in the scene of the world. He sees those jobs created in youngstown and says, oh, wow, look at what the government can do. But the good ideas will be starved of capital sos bad ideas can receive it in abundance. Yes, theyll spend the 15 billion and jobs will be created in one area. But at what cost . What do you say to that . Thats a very strange argument. In other words, its wrong cause ive seen it work . Is that what youre saying . That makes no sense. Youre looking at the observable reality. What youre missing are the businesses that never receive funding. The good idea that the markets want that never receive funding and jobs never created because were funding ideas that you like with the mone of others. Rich, have you ever seen these kind of programs work at all . I moon, youngstown, ohio or anywhere else . You know, i think liberals like rick always go back to the 1930s when it seemed like all these wpa projects worked, but we had a different environment then. We didnt have Public Sector unions. We didnt have all these regulatory barriers. The problem is that the things that rick talks about are so much more expensive when administered by the government than they would be by the private sector. You got ten seconds, wrap it up. Working today its 20 and. Its working now. Its no its not. Its also working in flint, michigan, this exact program. Its bringing business in. Doing all the things you like. We got to wrap it up at that. Coming up, mountain dew. Lead paint poisoning affects one million children today. Its also 100 preventable. If your home was built before 1978, visit leadfreekids. Org to learn more