Hispanic adults, they all agree youve got to have border security. Neil but when marco rubio says there is that provision here, and youre not going to get the republican wing like in 86 when Ronald Reagan offered this, what do you say . I say i love marco rubio. Hes just such a really sweet guy in the nicest sense of the world. He really believes that this administrations going to all of a sudden out of the blue start securing the border when they wont enforce their own obamacare that they passed without any republicans. I have a resolution, and, neil, it just says with all the whereases, the things they havent done, the borders got to be secured. The house is not going to pass an immigration bill until such time as the southern border is secured as confirmed by the four thats what we need. And once that border is secured as confirmed not by janet napolitano, we couldnt trust that, but by the board of governors or legislature, whatever they want to do, then we can move forward very quickly on the rest of this immigration bill. But we cant trust this immigration to maybe the president will all of a sudden for the first time really start following the law when it comes to security of the border. Neil so you dont buy the teeth in the law, the enforcement of the border comes first, you think that fool me once, dont even think about fool me twice, thats where youre coming from, right . I believe its in the law, neil, that the senate has passed, but this president already has secured the border in the law. That is part of his obligation, and he is not doing it. I mean, the border patrol, the patrolmen themselves, the unions, i mean, theyre saying its increased three to five times. Were not catching but a fraction of them regardless of what secretary napolitano says about 84, 87 . Theyre not catching a fragment of the people that are coming in. And its the most scary part of what are termed otms, you know, we dont worry about mexicans coming in to create problems. I welcome hispanic immigration. But it needs to be legal, and we need to root out those people who are coming in illegally that want to destroy the country. Weve got to secure the border. Once the president will do that, well work out an immigration bill immediately thereafter. That will not be a problem. There wont be a civil war. But i really regret neil but you would rather no bill than this bill, and this bill or nothing you would just say, well, nothing. No, i want a bill, and i will agree on a bill, but not until the borders secure. Because until the borders secure, were enhancing and increasing, aggravating the problem. Were not fixing anything. Were making it far worse. Even under the conservative cbo scoring. that says its going to add, the senate bill will add millions more on top of what were already going to give amnesty to. So this is not a fixed proposing. Its going to exacerbate the problem. Our solution, secure the border. You dont need any more laws to do it. Youve already ignored those. I mean, there were billions spent for virtual fencing, this administration said, no, were not going to do that. Neil all right, congressman, thank you very, very much. Thank you, neil. Neil so thats what it comes down to, are republicans risking the latino vote if they go ahead and scrap this . Well, that depends on who you talk to because Mary Katherine says it will not. We debate and you decide. All right, so your argument, kirsten, is that this is going to hurt the gop. Explain. Yeah. Well, at this point i think no matter what they do theyre going to be hurt. First of all, the bill probably wont ever pass ultimately. If it does pass so if it doesnt pass, its going to hurt them. If it does pass, its not really enough to help them, and theyve done so much damage to themselves during the process, i doot think that latino voters are really going to forget what has happened and the kinds of things that have been said from republican members of congress. Neil well, you could flip it around, mary catherine, and say is it patronizing that latinos would vote only on this issue . I dont think that theres no danger here. I do think its part how you speak to the latino community, but theyre split up in different groups to whom gop candidates can do things. The idea that federal legislation is a proxy for caring is something democrats are good at selling, but it doesnt mean a party should vote for something they dont believe is ultimately good for the party. Neil im sorry, mary, but how would you reverse what has been a trend of seven out of ten latino voters going for the democrat . How would you reverse that . I think you have to go into your individual communities as an individual politician and do it. I dont think passing giant legislation which, as weve seen with obamacare, doesnt necessarily fix the problem youre working on is necessarily the way to do it. Its a harder path sometimes. This can be a shortcut to earning peoples good graces, but i do think if youre not, you know, honestly for it, then you have to go and find other smarter ways to reach out to people. And its not an easy job. Neil kirsten . I agree with that. I dont think the republicans should vote for something they dont believe in. And i dont think federal legislation is a proxy for caring. So i dont agree, you know, with that, if thats what people are saying. I just think that its unrealistic to think that a group of people who feel the Republican Party often describes them as sort of inherently criminal, you know, are really going to be attached to them. Neil they dont call them inherently criminal. Yeah, they do. There are neil not all hispanics are criminal. You dont think that theyre portraying all of these people who are Illegal Immigrants as being inherently criminal . Neil theyre saying more legals could get over the border and that could be criminal, and there is a distinct dishes because our difference because our system can only support hat is not the only concern. Neil youre saying they all find hispanics to be i mean, come on. You know better than that. You just said first of all, i did not just say all neil you just racially cast them. I said you lost me now. I mean, i dont know what youre saying. I have not used the word all. I said that there are republicans in the Republican Party talking about them as if theyre all sort of inherently criminal because they keep saying they broke the law, they came into the country neil theyre not saying that about all of them. Mary catherine, what do you if that perception is right, fine, but if that perception is out there, then how can republicans even some who are against this bill for but thats my point is that when you have people in your party neil fine. Mary catherine, what do you think of that . Let me counter that i think the tone as compared to 2007 has been smarter. There are republican leaders, even those who are not necessarily for the bill who are very active in saying this is a smart way to talk about this, do not do it cavalierly or in any way that insults folks. So i think it has been a smarter approach. The other thing is i think the gop gets a little less credit than it should for trying to get something thats passable to the American People neil but do you think it will hurt, to your colleagues point here, do you think this will hurt them that if the perception is out there even among some, that it will hurt them . No. I think the perception is damaging, and it has to be counteracted. A lot of the perception is going to be there regardless. I think partly the media is not interested in giving credit to the gop which, by the way, politico headline today on the house immigration stuff, gop reaches out to democrats. If theyre not willing to go for a piecemeal approach here and try some stuff, show that they can actually be trusted, then nothings going to get done. But i dont think thats the way to fixing things. Neil bottom line, ladies, it is a mess, and its still up in the air. Thank you both. I appreciate it. Thank you. Neil weve got some good news bad news for you. The good news, a lot more jobs. The bad news, well, most of them are temporary jobs. We pick it apart, you decide. Is l this recovery real . A better opportunity for your business, better legacy to leave the world. We have always believed in this rsuit, striving to bring insight to everynvestment, and integrity to every plan. We are morgan staey. And were ready to work for you. Neil well, dont look now, folks, but weve got a jobs boom going on. The flipside is its a temporary job boom. Any job is percent than no job, but are these kind of jobs what we really want for recovery . Didi, you first, what do you think . I think rick unger really would prefer to work in retail and sell dresses [laughter] what . Neil he is sartorially splendid. Temporary jobs its tough because you dont have the benefit, the scheduled to, and plus you dont have the ownership in the job. Youre always going to do a better job if you belong to a company, so it is a problem. Neil why are they having these temp jobs . Let me first say for the record i have sold womens shoes very successfully. Neil you know, i could see you wearing i knew there was something going on there. Neil im kidding. Go ahead. Okay, look, i actually think this is better news than it might readily appear. Theres no getting around the fact were coming out of the worst recession since the great depression. Theres also no getting around the fact weve gone through a long era of jobs being shipped overseas. A, the economys improving, jobs should come with it. But i think were seeing a situation where employers are starting to see the benefits of bringing jobs home. We shouldnt be surprised that theyre putting their toe in the water starting with temp work to see how it works out. If it works, if they are right, watch those turn into fulltime jobs. Same as the economy gets better, understandable an employer might want to slowly bring in parttime work. Life keeps improving, theyll make them full time. I think this is all good. Neil guy, what about you . Well, anytime an american gets a job, thats something we should all celebrate, especially considering that the job picture has been so sluggish for so long and still is, by the way. 3. 6 7. 6 unemployment, would be in the double digits if we were in the same Work Force Participation rate before the depression, the u6 number getting ugly again last month. But trying to figure out why is that, why is the improvement largely in that area, i know were going to revisit the subject later on in the show, neil, but Obamacare Neil really . I had no idea. Go ahead. Laugh after. Exactly. We have an extra a year now of up certainty because part of this thing has been delayed. The employer mandate for medium and largesized businesses. So a lot of people are wondering, gosh, are we going the keep these hiring freezes in place, for instance, and people arent willing to commit to a fulltime or even necessarily a parttime worker, youll hedge your bet withs with temp workers and see where obamacare heads neil well, it would be a safe strategy even if you think the whole things going to work out hes wrong. Neil well, of course hes wrong. In all seriousness, why would you go out on a limb and hire a bunch of fulltime folks for whom youre obligated . Its the magical medical mystery tour were on. None of these employers need neil thats a beatles reference. This always amazes me, everybody wants to come up with all these reasons why people hire or dont hire. You know why people hire people . They need more man hours at work. If youre not selling your products, youre not going to no, its obamacare. Its obamacare, rick. Thats why theyre not hiring. When you need them, you hire them. Exactly. Were on that way. You know, sometimes people just dont want to take good news its not good news. It is good news. Its obamacare. People are afraid to hire. In this has nothing to do with obamacare. I think obamacares responsible for me stubbing my toe this morning. Neil i would agree with that. You guys make obamacare responsible for everything. I agree. Neil do you think that now the direction that were getting on on this hiring is that, yes, to ricks point, the economys obviously picking up, these guys do feel confident to hire, but theyre being cautious in their hiring plans which is also a reflection maybe not of health care, but not quite sure whether this recovery holds . What do you say . Exactly. Theres a sense of uncertainty and wait and see. We are in no way entering some giant jobs boom. There are a lot of people who are very worried and still sort of standing off on the sidelines. Theyre not sure where this cups headed next countrys headed next. Rick can say it has nothing to do with obamacare, but that doesnt make any sense just in terms of common sense. But it also isnt reflected when you look at polling of his owners and Small Businesses. They have said 41 according to gallup of Small Business openers have frozen hiring, and a lot of those Business Owners tell pollsters it is because of the Health Care Law. You cannot get around that. Its not political, its reality. Neil what do you think of that . I think its nonsense, i truly do. [laughter] people hire people actually, what you said strangely made more sense. I can neil thats very hurtful. [laughter] what im here for. If you didnt go with that shoes crack, i might have been [laughter] neil you know, youre exactly right. I had it coming, yes. But who wants crummy, parttime jobs . Nobody. Its not about that. People hire when they need people. Its got nothing to do with obamacare. Ill tell you what. If two years from today if people are laying people off when business is good because they dont want to deal with obamacare, ill listen to what youre saying. Okay, then its the crummy obama economy, youre right. Youre exactly right. Were not there yet. It hasnt even kicked in yet. Well, youre right. Were five years in and still bad. Youre exactly right. Obama kay is not the cause obamacare is not the cause. Neil i think youre the cause. When we come back, were going to look at yahoo right now and feel so guilty about so many of its customers feeling bad that it snooped through their records, that it wants to the government wont let em. Not yahoo . Neil all right. When we found out that the nsa was spying on us and taking our records and hitting up all these Technology Companies for their records, you had to ask yourself, why did they go along . Yahoo wants to get the record straight and let its customers know they fought them now and then, but the question is why the government wont let them tell that and wont let them detail what happened when they did. Weve got brett coffin joining us, the Aclu National Security project big wig, and im wondering, what does that say and does it give the company any more cover because the damage is done . Well, what yahoo s trying to do is go pack to 2008 when it was party to secret proceedings in the Foreign Surveillance court and with a challenging order it received under a predecessor to the law that now authorizes the prism program, and the quarter review actually released its opinion interpreting the Fourth Amendment and denying yahoo s challenge. It did so by redacting yahoo s name, and it released that opinion in 2009 to inform the public about what it was doing. What yahoo s doing now is something thats very encouraging, its pushing back against government secrecy in these matters, and its something that all the providers should be doing and, frankly, its something they should have been doing a long time ago to push for more public information. Neil its all obvious now, right . Why doesnt government just say, all right, go ahead and detail the times we hit you up for that information. Well, the government maintains that all of this information needs to remain secret. It has concepted to allowing yahoo to consented to allowing yahoo to challenge the order in 2008, but its still maintaining that much of this information needs to retain secret, and thats simply inappropriate. Yahoo s asking the court to review those claims neil what do you thinks going to happen . Do you think yahoo is going to be able to do that . Were hopeful that they do. The fisa court has been receiving many requests from providers including microsoft, google and including the aclu to make more information public about the laws that its interpreting in secret. Finish its essentially interpreting Fourth Amendment principles that govern a huge area of americans lives, and its doing so in ex parte proceedings, and thats just simply not the way the laws supposed to work in the american justice system, and its not the way the fisa courts supposed to work. Neil have we gotten any early evidence that a lot of customers at any of these operations that were hit up by the nsa or requested to give information over to the nsa whether back door channels or what have you, to quote mr. Snowden, how many were constantly complying with that . In other words, constantly offering it . Well, neil, thats a big question, and its something we dont know. And thats why the companies shown b pressuring finish should be pressuring the government to release information. Microsoft and google filed motion in the fisa court to be able to speak publicly about the kinds of requests it gets and the kinds it complies with. Thats entirely appropriate. We believe that even more information should be released about the kinds of data that the governments requesting, the authorities its requesting it under and how many customers are affected by these orders. Thats something the public is clearly entitled to know, and its good to see the companies now competing on these privacy matters because they know that customers care, and they know its to their advantage to protect the privacy interests of their customers. Neil brett, thank you very much. Also have to watch republicans. When we come back on this whole idea of the health care delaying the employer mandate, now theyre saying weve got to delay the individual mandate. Is this just a tactic to delay the whole thing and maybe kill the whole thing . 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[ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, Small Business solutions from at t have the security you need to get you there. Call us. We can show you how at t solutions can help you do what you do. Even better. Neil well, republicans must be smelling blood or something, because now theyre pushing to delay the entire Health Care Law that the president cant willynilly just push the employer component that demands they provide insurance for their workers, that its got to be extended to individuals that theyve got to provide insurance for themself, just push that back a year too. Senator roger wicker joins us now, is that a strategy to kill this thing . Well, thats exactly what we need to do, but the bill was supposed to go forward in one piece, and now we see bit by bit by bit parts of obamacare are crumbling. What the administration did last is on the 5th of july on a friday when most people werent watching, he makes an announcement through some blog saying were not going to abide by a major portion of his signature legislation. Neil but a lot of you guys are recommending that because a lot of your constituents are saying it was feasible for them to do it, so he did what you wanted. The president , if he wants to change the law of the land, needs to come to congress and say im not able to do this by the end of the year, would you work with us to change the statute. Now, in a democratic republic, thats the way things are supposed to work. Neil where do you think this is going, senator . With the postponement of the whole thing, theres no question about it. For him to say the individual mandate goes through when we dont have the exchanges ready when the individuals are either going to be taxed or fend for themselves, that puts the revenue in the stream without another major portion of the law being enacted, and its wrong, and its contrary to the way were supposed to do business in a country that abides by the rule of law. Neil all right. So in the house it doesnt look like this thing has much of a chance right now as far as making the same push. Maybe it does. But is this law on automatic pilot . I mean, because you always hear these daunting numbers. Its very, very tough to change a law already in place however unpopular, however enormous. What do you say . Is. Well, thats what we knew all i a long. All along. In the senate, yes, its tough. The house, i think, is voting on doing away with the individual mandate even as we speak if youll flip over. But, basically, what we my best hope, neil, is that we can defund the irs enforcement of in this. Thats the one part of this law that has to come back before the appropriations committees each year for additional money, and to me, its our best hope of really stopping this law that is not having the intended effect. Its the absolute opposite of affordable care. Neil senator, thank you very, very much. Now, to a guest who says, you know, in the end its going to be the economy that saves this, whatever controversy a good economy will float all boats, even rickety ones like this, huh . Nice to see you. Neil what do you think . Listen, i think its a pragmatic decision that we neil it wasnt a political decision . 2014 . I think you have to look at it this way, its 18 of our economy. It is big, it is large, it takes time. You have two separate things. You have the individual mandate which is making sure we insure the uninsured. That takes time. The state exchanges are going to take time. I like the idea that were focusing on that first. Most businesses are not disappointed that were delaying it. They want to make sure they understand the regulation, they want to understand the costs. Why, why isnt it pragmatic to say lets focus on the neil so you think it should be applied to the individual as well . Delay it for them too . No. I think that, listen, i think the whole thing is going to be its not an easy enactment. But i like the idea that were taking a bit of a piecemeal approach when you have that much of the economy, okay, involved. I think its important we get the uninsured insured. I think its important we get health care affordable, and its important that we make sure the employers understand what this mandate is. If that means we have to prolong some to get it right, that seems pragmatic to me. Neil if you think this would have been approved if people knew the problems that would crop up . I think anytime that youre speaking about near 20 of the economy, theres going to be significant bumps in the road. Its very difficult to see how you smooth this out without taking time. So i think it makes sense that we take the time. I think arguing whether were Going Forward with it or not, thats already been decided. Were proceeding. So lets figure out how to proceed the best way. Neil so you dont buy the argument that you cant change a law midstream by moving the deadlines. Its one thing to change the enforcement provisions, its quite another to change the dates on the participation provisions. I think if you change dates because its going to make implementation better, you change dates. Neil so you dont think its a big deal. I dont. Neil what if the economy doesnt improve . What if the gdp numbers that are okay but not great just kind of peter along . Yeah, listen, im concerned. I mean, we are kicking along at 2 , if not under. Exporting has slowed down. Yeah, i would say that most people are very concerned about the economy right now. Neil are you . Yeah. Neil in the long term . I am concerned, but were doing better here than almost anywhere else in the world. Neil that is our saving grace. We might suck, but the world sucks more. Well, you have to hope that Foreign Direct Investment into this country which is only 13 of gdp increases dramatically. We need neil you dont think the Health Care Issue is a reason to give we were discussing earlier this temporary hiring thats going on, robert, doesnt dissuade you . No. I think hiring is demand driven, okay . Im with ceos all the time neil you mean part time. Parttime hiring is normal. You increase first the average hour wookweek which, by the way, other the last few years has gone up by about two hours. So you have to first get the slack out of the system. We still even have more slack. Number two, once you get the slack out of the system, then you start hiring full time. You have a lot of businesses that dont think they need the fulltime labor, havent seen the demand. Remember, when you have Global Growth slowing down and youre hopping along at 2 , it is not like were ringing the bell singing god bless america. We are drivingga great economy. We are going slow right now. We just happen to be going faster than, you know, the rest of the economies around the world. Neil all right. And that does count for something. Robert wolf, the former ubs americas chairman. When we come back, remember blackberry . I think more like black and blue berry. This thing is imploding, after this. Neil remember when blackberry ruled the earth . Not now. Remember when costco was in charge of saying second fiddle to walmart . Not now. And remember when a certain other airline never really bothered you with fees . Not now. Blackberry more like black and blue berry that it is going ahead and laying off a couple of big executives on the heels of some disappointing sale numbers. Jonathan hoenig joins us, al lewis joins us. Johnny, what do you think . Neil, blackberry has dropped the ball. Theres no monopoly in a free market, and blackberry whose stock was, what, at 230 back in 2007, its at nine today, its a great example. They have been usurped while they pioneered the smartphone market, they have been usurped by other competitors and, thus, the stock has really become dead money as youre pointing off, more layoffs, more weakness in the stock, and while i think it could go higher short term, theres a lot of talk about the intellectual property, i think its a stock that most investors should avoid. Neil al, what happened here . I think hes right on. Theyre never going to be able to lay off enough executives to turn this company around. They came out with these new phones in february and said, oh, by the way, theyll be available in the u. S. In march, and you knew that was a funny announcement. Theyre cool, but guess what . Theyre just way too late. This company probably needs to change its name to beta max because thats the way its going. Neil a lot of people already have phones. The demand has been sashuated. Do you buy that . Safeuated. Do you buy that . No. The improvements are going to be incremental, so its not like lets camp out in front of the apple store and get a new iphone. Those days are gone. Neil good. And, neil, if they had a real dynamic leader, i mean, this feels very much like apple was before steve jobs came back and turned that company around. You know, blackberrys essentially been left for dead. If they got a real dynamic leader that could come in, show some vision, it could make a comeback. So far that simply hasnt happened. Neil all right. Talking about comeback and talking about reflecting, maybe a good economy underneath costco is on fire, sales advancing far better than expected, and its putting walmart in the dust. Johnny, what do you think of that . People love costco, neil. Rich, poor, every race, color, creed, socioeconomic level, people love costco. They fight to have one in their neighborhood. Its a tremendous economic Success Story and, again, demonstrate how in market there is no no moply. This is monopoly. This has been a major threat to walmart. Theyre succeeding, and i think it goes higher as more and more people realize this is a company that provides a tremendous amount of value not only to its customers but to its employees and shareholder as well. Neil its not across the board. Not doing as well as some of the middle and not doing as well, so whats the trick, al . I think people go to costco to stock up, and i think people stock up when theyre worried about their futures. Neil oh, really . Yeah. Why do you need 96 rolls of toilet paper unless you think im getting laid off . [laughter] costco is an excellent company, as jonathan points out. They do a lot of things that walmart doesnt. They pay their employees well, and they dont draw all the criticism that walmart tends to neil are they unionized . I dont think that they are. Walmarts not either. Neil all right. So they get a little bit less of a well neil resistance. Well, sure. But they pay well, and they treat their employees well, and they dont, like i say, draw all in the criticism. They do some of the same things that walmart does. Neil were going to get into that. Alaska air joining, in fact, upping the ante on these baggage fees whether you have one or two or three. In fact, by the third one, youre paying more han the cost of the plane. What do you think, jonathan . Whats going on here . [laughter] neil, i know you love to complain about the airlines, about the nickel and diming. I wish youd start complaining about the government, because its their regulatory system thats prompted all these nickel and diming fees to have to take place. The Airline Industry is regulated on every level from the design and construction of the plane to the ownership of the airports to the number of slots airlines can send out. So they have to try to make money on this essentially nickel and timing. Buttive ooh got to tell you ive got to tell you, if youre hauling another hundred pounds of weight onto the plane, you might have to play a little pay a little extra. Neil i do know what you mean, and i hate you. [laughter] you know whats not regulated . The price. They can raise the price of a ticket. Neil none of these guys do. You know why . Because theyre in a death match for market share. Theyre hitting you with this sneaky little fee. You know, i wish they would just put little coin slots in the armchairs when you want to put your seat back, you put a quarter in. You want a tray . 50 cents. How about a pay toilet . Im afraid they might be watching. Neil dont give them ideas. Even with all these fees, though, the cost of domestic air travel is still lower when adjusted for inflation than it was in the 1970s. Neil that is true. So what do you think of that . In the scheme of things, youre doing better than you were in the 70s. Id rather they charge me full price neil but they cannot do that. They cant and wont do. Its going to get to the point where everyone has to fly naked, and i want to start this business where you rent clothes at the airport. You get on the plane naked, they dont have toosearch you at the tsa, you go buy or rent some clothes, you dont have to carry a bag. Thats where were headed. Neil viewers, were very sorry we did this to you. That was unintentional. Laughwell never do it again. When we come back, walmart really wanted to give folks a break in the nations capital, but in the land of lincoln, somethings stinking, and for customers, its actually reeking. The pursuit of a better life for our children is something we all share. But who can help prepare them for the opportunities ahead . Who can show them how to build on your success, but not rely on it. Who can focus on making your legacy last for generations to come . That someone is a Morgan Stanley financial advisor. And were readto work for you. Neil well, Charles Payne warned you that they would do this, and apple did this after the d. C. City council went ahead and approved a jump in the minimum wage for large big box employer retailers pretty much only Walmart Walmart is moving out of d. C. Not a surprise. Its just heartbreaking, and ill tell you why. Washington, d. C. , i guess in a certain way, is feeling its oats. Its a boomtown. Why . They dont drill for oil, they dont manufacture things, they collect taxes from the rest of the country. Tax revenues have gone up, spendings gone up 100 in the last ten years. But their pockets there are pockets of neighborhoods in washington, d. C. That are extraordinarily poor. Neil and no ones thinking about them, the customers. I looked at the voting, and i saw 85, and i saw marion berry jr. , for instance, his district has a 38 poverty rate, 94 blacks by the way, the poverty rate is the highest its been in 30 years, and why he would vote on something that could come into his district and perhaps create jobs for people who voted for him, its just people are calling it an ideological agenda thats really right up there with communism. The idea is that walmart is rich. Theyre talking about how much money is the ceo of walmart makes. Your focus is on improving the lives of the people that put you in office. Neil so walmart leaves, then what happens . Well, walmart leaves, you know, and both sides will call it something of a victory. I think for washington, d. C. Its a period victory, to be quite frank. Right now they have the third highest income inequality in the country. Liberals tell me thats an important thing. Nevertheless, the top onefifth of people in d. C. Make 450,000 a year. The bottom fifth 9,000. Even at 8. 50, that would be 17,000. So were talking about an opportunity 2,000 jobs, 2,000 people could have had a chance to perhaps double what theyre making now or maybe even not making anything at all. Its a horrible sign, its a horrible thing that rich liberals would deny this opportunity for poor people in their neighborhoods. Neil and you think it was a union shot when this happened . They already said its not Union Grocery stores, its not fast food companies. It was directly it was specifically, to your point, targeted at walmart, and i guess they feel like theyve taught walmart a lesson, but this is a great big world, and walmarts going to create jobs somewhere else, and people who live in those neighborhoods will have cheaper groceries, flat panel tvs. Theyre going to have a whole lot of things that, unfortunately, the people in mr. Berrys ward and those other seven wards arent going to have. Neil do you think that the bottom line for retailers Going Forward is this isnt about how much business they do, this isnt about how affordable they make their products, this is about whether theyre friendly to democrats . Right. Theres a political war against some of these retailers. We know its been going on for a long time. But ive got to until you something, its one of these things where in the end, in the end its just like higher tax policies. A lot of these draconian sort of policies that are aimed and targeted at the socalled rich, weve got to bring them down a notch. Invariably, they always hurt one group of people most, and thats the poorest of the poor. Neil so what if the mayor overturns this, how likely is that . I think it can happen. You know what . Mayor daley in chicago, from what i understand, he never vetoed anything, but they passed something similar, and he was smart enough to veto that. It would be a brilliant move to do that because, again, its not hurting anyone. Of realistically, its hurting except the poorest people in washington d. C. By the way, who are being left behind in this boomtown. This is an amazing boomtown. You go down there a lot. You see how amazing washington is. But its become an elitist paradise. Theyll. Neil and a government paradise. And by the way, we outside of d. C. Are paying for it. They havent become the new silicon valley. They havent drilled for oil to. They havent invented anything. Theyre getting the money from the taxpayers of america, and theyre gypping their poorest people. Neil well put, Charles Payne. When we come back, the Health Care Law is in serious trouble. As you know, all of its key foundations for funding being frittered away. Do you think theyre out of options . Well take a look at your wallet. Theyremy looking at it too. Axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. 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Dont attempt to adjust the tv, neil didnt want to deal with these next three people because of all the rowdy canness [laughter] earlier in the show. By the way, hes going to be on early vacation, so youll get used to seeing me. Lets talk about this, the Health Care Law. Its imploding. All of this really means that, well, when oure going to pay for it, it might start to wither away. Already we see younger workers are not signing up for it, lowwage worker are not ponying up for it, even the uninsured are not taking it up, and now employers pushed back a year on enlisting up. So where to get all if youre going to have a law where costs are spiraling out of control, how do you even pay for it . Didi, rick and guy. Guy, lets start with you. Well, theres the question, well, are they going to raise taxes more to pay for this, and harry reid just a few weeks ago said we need more money for obamacare because 2 trillion apparently wasnt enough. And republicans on capitol hill, rightfully, pretty much just laughed in his face. Thats not happening short term. But in the long term, this is the real problem, charles. One of the most disturbing things that the administration has done is they have effectively waived for at least a year the verification elements to make sure that people who apply for these expensive subsidies in obamacare actually qualify for them. And as a result, youre going to get a lot of fraud and abuse. Their goal is to act as a magnet, get as many people onto Government Health care as possible reliant on the government for their health care right. Because their long play here is sicklepayer, governmentrun thats cynicism. If that comes, then say goodbye to American Health care exception amism and say American Health care exceptionalism. Charles youve got to admit, rick, he makes some points there. He made some great points. Charles you can already go down to Social Security and say this economys so bad, i need a disability check, and you can be 26 years old, strapping, strong, healthy x theyll pay you to sit on the porch all day. Were going down that path, but this is expo exponentially wors. I Say Something . Charles are you willing to admit it now . No, i dont think so. [laughter] the first clue that somebody is being foolishly doctrinaire is when they start with the American Health care exceptionalism. We have Great Health Care here. We do. But guess what . There are other countries with Great Health Care, there are other countries who have better results than we do. I wouldnt trade ours. Im very happy with my health care charles but you just had to well, hang on, you think it is exceptional. This is never going to go anywhere if we dont stop with this nonsense and have a serious conversation. Charles lets have a serious conversation. Actually, guy said somethiig that was right. 3 charles okay. Lets talk about this. I said a couple of things that were right. No, actually one thing, and that is that we are waiving the process of checking people to see if they qualify. Hes right about that, we shouldnt be doing that. Charles well, what about paying for it . Rick, what about paying for this . Penalties against employers, that was going to be like 8 10 billion. They budgeted for this money to come in, so where do you pay basically, look, one thing we can all degree on, we can take the tax question off the table because theres not a cannes in hell that the house chance in hell that the house is going to allow a new tax. So guys right about two things, guy. Hey, the list keeps growing. Theres not going to be any more taxes. What i dont understand is theres no pleasing you guys. You didnt want this to go into effect, youve got Companies Like walmart or that are pushing all of their employers on to my taxpayer nickel rick, what are you talking about . You didnt want it, you didnt want it, and now when it gets delayed a year, now you want to get angry about that. I know what you really want is for it to go away, its not. It needs to go away. We need to repeal obamacare. This is not the american way. Americans should not be forced to take anything. Right, great, terrific. Theyre rebelling. Democrats, too, because they know theyre going to lose their elections at midterm and yet so depress what . Theyre playing poll guess what . Theyre playing politics. Obama knows its a very bad idea. Lets push back politically because its terrible policy. We need to get rid of it of its a disaster. When are we going to have a serious conversation . Its not going away. You dont know that. Yes, we do. Democrats arent going to lose the house next year. Charles ive heard democrats say its right up there with the emancipation proclamation, so youre right i never said that. So how [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] charles right before our very eyes though, guy. It hasnt even it hasnt started yet. Theyre pushing it back because its a disaster. You think its never going to happen, right . Lets hope not. Its not working. Charles okay, listen to this. A pipe and a pancake, a [inaudible] [laughter] theres just no pl but, guy, okay, we know that the democrats arent going to necessarily abandon it, but certainly theyre taking it apart piece by piece, and to me its something of a mea culpa by saying, you know what . This part of it doesnt work, maybe other parts dont work. Many hey, rick, i believe the question was directed to me in this case. [laughter] so if the democrats im just going to reclaim my time as they say in the senate. But heres the thing and, charles, youre absolutely right. If democrats want to vote against a verification enforcement mechanism and say that, hey, we have to actually follow the law, make sure who people who are getting these subsidies are eligible, they need to explain why they would vote against that. Its in the law. The president s waived it, why is that . By the way, if were giving this oneyear waiver to big businesses that have all sorts of, you know, lobbyists and that sort of thing charles right, financial resources. Why not give them to individuals and Small Businesses . Charles guy, im glad you brought that up. Rick, a lot of people said the president made a pretty smart political move to push this back, but the individual out there, they, you know, even with the subsidy that they dont need id for, a lot of people are going to be hit and dinged pretty hard while employers arent paying, and theyre wondering why again does this big, crowning achievement fall on the individuals shoulders to pay for . Did you hear what bob wolf said . What amazes me is so many of the arguments that i hear are precisely, i mean, precisely what you heard when medicare and Social Security went in. And what happened with those . They were often modified in congress as we put it into play charles were they modified before they were even implemented . But, no, neither was this. It was delayed. One segment for a year. Charles delayed, modified terrible policy. Let me get this in because the fantasy charles well, get it in. Nothing has been modified in the law. It was delayed a year. In your mind is that a change in the law . Its a failure. Its a huge failure because its not working. Well go with the silly stuff, or we can get serious. I never knew you could have a failure before it happens. Theyre all going to lose because its unpopular, and theyre playing politics with you starting a business next year . Its a failure. Yet. Charles guy, real quick, i just need to say, you know, weve seen things delayed before like one year, two years, three years, four years, doctor fixes, i think, is on its 26th year of being pushed down the road. Congress does that though. Charles yeah. So here we have the president , by the way, who changed his own law. How rare does that happen . Theres something wrong here, and at some point i think the white house is probably going to have to deal with even their own party with this. And by the way, rick is wrong that theres been no part of the law modified. Another thing theyve delayed for a year is the Small Business exchange which was going to be a panoply of options for people to choose from. Thats been reduced down to one option starting in 2015 rather than 2014 which the law requires. He keeps demanding a serious conversation. Democrats are 100 responsible for this law. Yes. Everything in it. Ill gladly take responsibility. Sorry. Americans suffer because of it. I have a very hard time with how you define modification. I think even people who agree with you would have a very hard time with how you define modification. Delay is not modification. Theres actually been one charles would you agree i just explained its a delay and change. Charles maybe defeat . No, i dont think its defeat. Charles all right, guys, we had a quasi serious conversation. Photograph. [laughter] thanks for watching, see you tomorrow night. Dont wait, call me today. Lawyers are making money off this man who says hes too injured to work and this woman who says she cant walk. We are the good guys. If you fight her. You are completely screwed. John says the trouble. Thats our show tonight when. And now john stossel. [applause] him. John and eric and a half h