As a single cut. Everything you said was taxes, taxes you have not heard anything i said because you never stopped talking to listen. You havent heard anything i said. Neil tell me what you got. I just finished telling you theres a number of things of which we can look at. Neil you told me things to raise taxes. Thats what you told me. You got to tell me one thing, i beg you, cogressman, one thing you say im going to cut this. What would it be . You neil you dont know, do you . Well, yes, i know, but i have to have time to explain it. I cant tell you im going to walk in and cut this and cut that. Neil we got a lot of email on that one. So said i was rude and the that the congresswoman or clueless, but we didnt make progress, did we . As the week ends, where do i start . A congressman who cant budge or went act, wont move, the republicans offering tax hikes with nothing in return, just walk away from the table. That could be a very real possibility, and hear former office ceo of home depot say a welcomed one. A bad deal is worse than no deal. Also with us, town halls elizabeth and roll call. Lets get a sense where you think this is going, steve. You dont like where its going . No. You know, look, we need a deal. Were sitting on a price missing here with the whole world watching, the markets are expecting a deal, the Credit Rating agencies expecting a deal, and if we dont have a balanced deal including spending cuts and a revenue race, even if its a small deal with a process for the future, youre going to see markets react, not only in this country, but around the world, and youre going to see the Credit Rating agencies act, and if that happens, our Interest Rates are going to go up. The cost of our debts going to go up, and its going to exas effort exacerbate the problem spinning out of control. Its in a point in time, and were playing politics, when, in fact, the entire world, the business community, everybody around washington is saying, look, guys, make some progress here. Neil what worries me now is when the next shoe drops. Democrats, largely 80 congressman did today, following the Congressional Black Caucus and others like schumer said theres no reason to go after entitlements right now. Whats to stop republicans from saying, were outs of here, were done. There is not a lot to stop republicans from saying, nope, then this is not going to work. We are not ging to be able to come to a consensus before christmas or before we go off the cliff. A big he want of that was john boehner. He is heded home to ohio for the weekend. Obviously, the lines of communication remain open with the white house, but that, to me, is very much a move, a political move, saying, hey, you need to come to the table a little bit more, white house and democrats, if we have any chance of making progress and getting a deal. Neil elizabeth . Well, i think anyone in the situation would agree you cant make theperfect the enemy of the good, but agree that no deal at this point is better than a bad deal just because bad deals create more problems than they solve. We saw that with obamacare, and, secondly, if you take the pressure off of congress doing a short term deal, youre never getting them to com back to the table to address refms that needo happen. If theres one thing you learned, they do not work well under pressure. Neil not at all, period. What worries me about the developments as of late is that a good example is dick durbin of ilnois says we cant do things in a rush, cant make decisions in a matter of days, and building upon republicans for essentially creating this predictment. Well, it was a constanttpushing forward, the deadline that created this socalled rush. If not now, when . I wonner if not this opportunity is it really done next year or the debt going to overwhelm us . Well, you know, theres a lot of people pushing to say lets go off the cliff. Neil right. The problem is that if we do that, and the reason is because well get all of the tax hikes which, you know one group wants, and well get certain spenting cuts which the other group wants civilling everything k dont t . It doesnt. Its the worst of both cases. I think all the rational people, the business community, the Global Markets are looking at this saying, look, a bad deal is bad. Lets not do a bad deal, but lets do some deal. Lets do some progress thats balanced, and then as part of that, lay out a process to do bigger tax reform and entitlement reform, which, clearly, is necessary. We cant keep going. Neil i love you, steve, but thats like a diet solution. Hope springs eternal, but i look, and its eternally gotten bigger. Its got to happen. Neil i agree. Heres the next thing, who blames who when it blows up . If you want to play that game, wouldnt republicans be wise to say we went so far as even to offer not just a tax hike, but acally to go back to the clinton rates. We didnt like the idea, but we did it, offered it, and they put the ball in the president s court. Whats crazy about that . Well, polling showed that voters and ctizens are split. If we go off the fiscal cliff, the blame will be divided between the white house, but does lean a lile bit more towards congress and paicularly Congressional Republicans neil wouldnt it be less, though, if boehner and colleagues come back and say, look, we agree to hiking taxes. We were on board. Let it be known we agree. Yeah, if boehner and the House Republican caw cause caved, yeah, i mean, they can say they did everything they could, on the other hand, you have to remember that the dynamics of the epublican party; right . A lot of republicans and not just boehners caucus, but also in the senate, and particularly, in the senate. A lot of the guys are worried about primary challenges from their right. Neil sure. Look at the senate math in 2014, a lot of repulicans up for reelection, a lot of the big states that tend to the right anyway, and they are worried about reelection here already, even though w just had one neil oh, no, no, youre right. Its a key opponent. They ave to cater by holding the line as long as they can. Neil to that point, theres a number of republicans telling me, usually off the record when they say this, that theyhink democrats overplayed their hand, the president overplayed him, won the election, not a landslide, and may haveon higher taxes for the wealthy, but didnt win a pass on avoiding entitlement cuts, and its hell to pay for him. What do you think . Yeah, neil, you know, that may be true in fact, but, unfortunately, for the g. O. P. , unl they learn how to win a messaging war, they could win all the policy battles they want, but will not win politically until they communicate this in the right way to the american people. Neil all right, so here we be; right, folks . Without a deal, further from a deal unless its happening behind the scenes were mising, but if im missing something, its potentially an awful deal thats disproportioned to your fear at the outset, steve, with tax hikes, more than more than dominating the scenes and very few cuts, then wha . Yeah, yeah, and, well, you know, that would be terrible because that wouldnt be the balance that the markets are looking for and so forth. Look, all of the concentration has been on the political side. Who wins, loses, and, you know, its the people in washington were talking about. They are forgetting who they are serving and why they are there. You know, businesses, mn street, the markets are all says, look, guys, you dug a 16 trillion hole. The math doesnt work. You cannot tax your way to prosperity, and you cant tax your way out of it. The money is not there. Youd run the government for a matter of weeks if you seized all of the wealth of the wealthy so it doesnt work. Youve got to have a balanced approach to this thing, and you got to have spending cuts, and in order to do that, you got to have entitlement reform, and youd rather have some sort of balanced approach which then describes a longer term approach now in order to forget about politics in order to settle the markets. Neil im beginning to wonldzer, i dont think the markets like it either way, but whats your prediction . How do you see it sorting out . I predict there might be a deal if there is a deal. I think its under 50 of any deal, but this deal, if it happens, i think will be a small deal. See some frame work, you know, raise tax rates a little bit, and then theyll basically say, okay, we promiseto deal with the tax code and entitlement reform and form another supercommittee until march 1st or a deadline to get this done. What that would do is say democrats could go back to the race and sayay, okay, we claim victory, raise taxe on the highest income earners in america, and republicans all right, we have a promise and a ocess for entitlement reform in the coming year. The reality is that thats actually not a very good thing because congress cant do anything, and these committees have not been fruitful in the past. Its how we got ourselves i the spot in the first place hrough the supercommittee who couldnt avoid sequestering. Neil elizabeth . I agree much its chris brown and rihanna going back to the same sisks, and it doesnt work out. Bottom line, i dont know theres a deal, but if it is, the pattern is kicking the can down the road. I agree with that completely. You wont see change because thats not helped the economy at this point, and it probably will not help it in the future. Neil incredible, absolutely incredible. Thank you very much. In the meantime, sandy money to fix the smithsonians roof. This has you hitting the roof. Speaking of hitting, remember the union guys and the fists . Get lawyers. Get lawyers. [bleep] [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. Monarch of marketing analysis. With the ability to improve roi through seo all by cob. And you. Rent from national. Because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. And go. You can even take a fullsize or above, and still pay the midsize price. Im going big. [ male announcer ] good choice business pro. Good choice. Go national. Go like a pro. Neil dont say i dnt warn you with washington set to give 60 billion to sandy battered states. How is the smithsonian getting 2 million of that to fix a roof on one of its buildings. It was not damaged because of sandy. It was damaged before sandy. No wonder americans for tax reform is so upset. I guess this shouldnt surprise us, but more to come, i suspect . Right, neil, thisis why as we talk about the fiscal cliff and debating what can be done, anyone whosot telling you spding needs to be on the table and need to cut spending as part of the deal and solution is not serious. As youve seen, as soon as theres money, even the whiff of money on the tail, every agency on the board bellying up to the federal trough saying they need money, the smithsonian, the fbi, everyone all the sudden has a sandystorm related cost they need paid for by the federal government. Neil you know whats weird . I was trying to think through the smithsonian, everyone is going to tryto justify for why they need the money. They can have app exhibit later on to talk about deadliest storms to hit america, and we need the roof fixed, but it gets to stretch the imagination, and just credibility of the washington and how it gets money out, but big sums, 60 billionful, i imagine thats going to get common. More of a stretch is the sum in and of itself with the president saying we need 60 billion for storm recovery effort. What we doesnt tell you is 64 of the 60 billion is getting spent seven years om now, things that are going to be going out the door from 20152022. Now, how is this an emergency relief effort if we look ten years down the road to have funds going out the door . You look at the package, its a huge amount of money, but no effort to offset spending. If its necessary, we need lawmakers serious about reigning in the size of government saying, listen, we want to help the states in a fiscalically responsible manner, and if we dull out 60 billion, we have to cut esewhere. The stimulus projects still getting money, cut those and help the people in new york and new jersey instead. Neil even leaving that issue aside, make better accountability. If we had the Inspector General for t. A. R. P. Keeping track of how it was supposed to be a bank rescue pile of money that was a Solar Projects and what have you, who is keeping track of it . It gets back to the issue, we discussed it before, americans have big hearts, want to help people when they are in trouble, but we ado wantto see money pissed away in the process not getting to the people we reached out there. Its deeper than that; right . If money is flying around from the federal government, people assume works getting done distracting from Recovery Efforts if you throw money out the door to smithsonian and pele claiming they need landscaping wherever. This is an idea were paying for what we get, and we are not. If we have to help people recovering from disaster, we have to be serious about going it rather than allowg it to be a slush fund which is whatis set up to do. Neil up to eightsomething billion of this moneyallocated to for future projects to make them mo weather resis tent, hurricane resistant. I dont think so. I dont see that happening. Absolutely, right. Its whats more weather resistant . Itould be solar panels or planting trees. In any way, does it help victims affected whose homes were wiped away trying to deal with the circumstances they find themselves or might be homeless . It doesnt. The idea that the federal government steps in, spreads the magical federal money around to mike it better distracts from efforts and we have to be circumspect about that. Neil we do. Timely advice. Thanks, neil. Neil you know what happened today in connecticut, another Massive School shooting in our nations history. The latest, but a question. How do we protect ourselves and our kids against whats become an all too frequent proble [ male announcer ] where do you turn for legal matters . At legalzoom, weve created a better place to handle your legal needs. Maybe you have questions about incorporating a business youd like to start. Or questions about protecting your family with a will or living trust. And youd like to find the right attorney to help guide you along, answer any questions and offer advice. With an a rating from the better busess bureau legalzoom helps you get personalized and affordable legal protection. In most states, a legal plan attorney is available with every personalized document to answer any questions. Get started at legalzoom. Com today. And now youre protected. Neil it was big news when all screens outer floor of the New York Stock Exchange were on it, not on business channels, they were not on anything else but this. What happened in connecticut today, andhat coul lead to more than two dozen people, largely kids, getting killed . Security expert and former cia covert officer mike baker on how we get through this making ourselves more secure. So little wenow, and a lot were going to find out, but here we go again. What do we do . How do we make these schools safer or can we . Well, you learn from every tragic, unfortunate iident, and more details will be coming out, obviously, as we go forward and carry out the investigation, and well learn about the background and experience and the connections, but, you know, ultimately, the problem is you cant regulate, legislate, and control your society into a zero ri. We never get to the point where you can stop crazy. You cant do it. You have to find a line that people are willing to live with in terms of the way that we move through society and schools are no deferent, and, now,there are better now than even a few years ago at dealing with crisis like this. Up fortunately, because weve had them and try to study. Neil not all schools have metal detectors or cameras in every room. Should they . What do you do . Ask yourself the question, how far do i want to go, you know, to have as close to a riskfree life as possible . You know, the problem is what would i like to do . Ive got a son whos just started kindergarten, you know, and your heart goes out to the people, cant imagine those feels, but what would i like to see a Police Officer from the local area assigned as a beat officer to each school . Sure, id like to see that. Can we pass a rule and find a budget for that . I dont know. I have no idea but im willing to see if you have an armed response in a school, whether its an Elementary School or university, youre improving your chances of reducing the fatalities and the cses if crazy desends on you. Are people willing to do that . Neil can you protect yourself from craz whether its columbine or Virginia Tech . Crazy marchs through detectors on a rampage. Rght. Neil it begs to issue, and its not just in america, but weve seen it in high guncontrolled countries, finland and scandinavian countries, they ve the same shootings. What is it . Is there a collective thing we, as a society do, or what . Well, i think youre touching on a much bigger issue here, i think, and that is, you know, why are diseffect the youth, a young man, why are diseffected youth now seemingly, more, you know, psychotic and aggressive and violent, than they used to be . Is that thecase . If so, you know, what within the society is doing that . Why are we creating, you know desensitized individuals who see nothing, or is it just, ou know, crazys been there, and things like this happen . I dont know. Im not capable of answering that question that high up. Neil the gun control debate, brought up in these situations, people are going to ask where does it happen and where it happens, particularly in schools, the mall shooting a couple days back, we need armed guards in malls. Right. Neil do we need armed guards in schools . Do we need ared guards in every Public Center . All i know is i feel that in if you have the trained responsible personnel equipped to deal with situations like this on site, youre going to, i believe, this is my opinion, i believe youre going to reduce the potential for mass casualties because youll have a response available on site. Neil because the presence is known to be there . Right. Again, youre right. Usually one of the first thing that happens afer a tragedy like this is it revisits the question of gun control, and one part about it im a proud gun owner. I think its an important aspect, and i would challenge anybody who takes away my rights, but there is an issue of, you know, how are they sold and waiting period, and ive wondered about that. I mean, people fight against the idea of a waiting period to buy a weapon. Frankly, you know, i run a company, andin part, that does Due Diligence, background work on people. If you have sufficient time to do Due Diligence on individuals, you know, you can do a thorough job and uncover issues that might not be uncovered in the short period. I woke up a said i got to get to the store and get another weapon right away, i need it immediately. Put in a decent waiting period in there so you have the chance to do that. Dont say you cant buy a weapon. You know, say, you know, you shouldnt have to need that weapon this afternoon, you know, put in a decent petered. Maybe thats one thing we can talk about that would, you kno, go some ways towards dealing with all the people who cry about gun control after a tragedy like this, but theres the other issue of how far are we willing to go in restricting our, whatever you want to call it, freedom of movement, civil liberties, in order to try to improve our security. Schools have done a much better job, Crisis Management planning than theyve done . T past, but now, as weve seen, its not enough. Neil its not enough. The unthinkable occasionally happens. I know a lot of families in connecticut know it. More after this. [inaudible conversations] did you see a fight . I didnt see a fight,but me hit in the face five times, and th letting him go, he sucker purchled me again. They they they are justfieded because they dont believe you have a right to be there if you dont agree with these people. Neil you know about the fists flying in michigan, Union Members angry about the state being a right to work state, but now, well, now, they are under attack themselves. Scott from americans for prosperity filed a police report, demanding an investigation. Greg mcneillly with the michigan freedom funds offering a thousand dollar reward with information leading to the arrest to the folks who turned violation. Greg, any takers yet . Weve had a few call following up, neil, to figure out the authenticity of the information, and were in te ocess of collecting affidavits. Neil the goal is what . Justice. No excuse about the violence. Its disconcerning saying you took on the unions, what did you expect . We expected civil discourse. There is no no tolerance for this violence in the public scare. This harkens back, to the history of organized crime and murder of their opponents, but we should not tolerate this. This delegitimizes their organizations arguments and their voice. Were looking for justice. Neil i think its more the exception than the rule with unions is that unions should be out front condemning this behavior, and it was the fox guy who started it. It got silly. Thats wt i worry about. It is one thing to sort of ignore a problem, but then not to address the elements within nor union that make you look bad. What do you think of that . No, iagree whole heartedly. What happened tuesday was discussing, and, you know, one of the representatives on the house of the floor actually said there will be blood. That goes om the leadership on the left all the way down to the people that were out there on the capitol grounds. I had members of our organization, 87,000 members in michigan were afraid to come tuesday. I assured them it would be safe because if theres any place we have to be able to a Public Discourse and exchange of ideas and to feel safe, its at the State Capitol and State Capitol grounds, and part of the reason were calling for full investigation is because these intimidation tactics cannot work. They cannot happen, and the heart of the democracy is to be able to engauge in debate, and thats why we need a full investigation. These people need to be brought to justice, and we needed to know what happened so we can prevent this in the future. Neil the unions know who they are. Talk about it, you know, i was in wisconsinor the recall election of scott walker, and, you know, no one hit me, happy to say, because, boy, that would have been a doozy of a suit, and they called me a chain of words i never seen combined the way they did, or used asmany gestures at me as they did. Clearly, not a fan of fox, maybe not a fan of me, or thought i was sean hannity, but the fact of the matter, and heres what worries me, greg, is its accepted behavior. It shouldnt be accepted behavior. Yeah, absolutely, neil. Theres a big problem. The uions shroud themself surround themself in corruption, intimidation, and murder. They have vio of marshalls, people in yellow vests there to organize them and be their punt masters. Those folks in yellow vests participated in tearing down of the tents wh ople inside them putting them at Public Safety risk. This is part of the leadership. Neil you dont buy the argument that this was an isolated thing, and that some no and on thing led to another . So, neil, this started last thursday at the first protest, and scott was on the capitol steps. Our organization to reserve the lawn and tents, and there was people there to voice support for freedom to work. On thursday, scott and his cohorts were surrounded and hassled for three hours, held captive on the steps. I, myselfs thrown into a wall by the thrugs, and we had personal Property Damage to them. That escalated on their part on tuesday. We gave up the capitol steps. We reserved them, but we couldnt hold them or try to have a flash point with them because we knew what that would cause. We were eaceful in the tents, and scott had people there just being peaceful. There was no provocaton here. As he indicated, from the floor of the michigan house, the Michigan Democrats owned this because they called for blood, and since the union organized it, i think theres implications here. Talking about a culture organized crime. Neil well, hat might be the next step. Its a bit of a leap, but, scott, its your view right now this has hurt the Union Movement for awhile . That americans seeing this will look at this and say, well, you want people to have the right to be a part of you. The part of you i see on tv scares me. Yeah, i think it does hurt the Union Movement, and thats very unfortunate. You know, my family, allupon members in southeast michigan, and whats unfortunate, once legislation goes into effect, they can still belong to a union, they have the freedom to do that. The unions going down the road hurts themselves and chance to attract members when the members will have that opportunity to choose whether to be in the union or not. Neil scott, greg, thank you, both. Greg, keep us posted if youre getting the reward and get the information needed. As i often ay on this, heated debates or otherwise, you can disagree. You dont have to be disagreeable or take it to the next level and punch the other guy out. I mean, we have a democracy, okay . Meanwhile, free cell phones for Homeless People. Its a government plan with a very, very public bill. Gave you a phone . You sign up, you get a social security, you got no [inaudible] neil the governments calling, and its your money on the line, literally. California paying phone bills for land lines of a lot of low income people. Now its ready to give out cell phones to Homeless People and folks already gets welfare and food stamps. California just approving a federal plan that could hook up more than 4 Million People. Charles payne, not too enthusiastic about this. Charles, you and i talked in the break that the logic of this is it leads them to get a job or contact loved ones; righ right. Thats the supposed rationale. We heard president obama talk about this for some of the justifications of laying down computer lines in rural areas because in a modern society, the only way you get a job these days is to have access to the internet, and, in this case, they are saying, you know, you have a telephone, relatives can call you, but the honest truth of it is you know, because i dont think it new, but i believe som form of a computer will be next. Thats the string l logic. Listen, its unfair to the people they cant go online o a job site and post their resume. Of course, every time they post it, they watch a video on youtube a thousand times, and its misused. Hoppestly, its going to be misused, and the whole thank whole thing that bothers me and the booker food stamp this week, and they dry t continuously make poverty more comfortable to the point where people dont get off of it, less effort to get off of it. Okay, well pay your rent. Well pay for your food. Well pay your transportation. Well give you a cell phone. At what point do i have the need to get off the sofa . Neil the college fund, not a handout, but a hand, and where does the government, then, draw the line, and what should the line be . What should the government be doing . Do you ignore or do you do something that helps them . My view, if you help the economy, you deal a good way towards getting rid of homelessness. Broad prosperity helping everyone, bottom line. When bill clinton enacted health care reform, people were upset about that, but it added to the level of accountability, and the era economy, they never talk about the fact that he lowers welfare roles and made people go to work at at least have skin in the game or some accountability. You got to add a level of accountability to this. Its not a birthright because im born in the country, someone else, because, by the way, the phones, the phone companies pass the cost on to paying customers so the idea is that someone who gets up at five oclock in the morning, you know, blurryeyed, tired,oes to work, doesnt make a lot of money, half taxed away, is obligated to pay someone who wakes up any time that day, and, you know, listen, im not saying itts a great life being homeless, but what im saying is we make choices in life, and i think they make the choices to fade out of society so much easier when it should be making those choices more difficult. Neil separate issue, if you have money to burn, and you want to go thats your route, giving Homeless People cell cell phones have at it. Last i checked, california doesnt have the money for it. California is americas greece. We continue e them, you know, gone past the proverbial, you know, they have gone over, and it feels weir base theres people reelection weird because theres a lot of people who are relatively poor, and if youre rich, you can handle it, but they both are together on the same things, and its those people in the middle, those 1 million, by the way, who leftn the last ten years to go to texas because they are the ones who get crush in all of this, and real opportunities are a loss for everyone, and at some point, you hit a break wall. Its happening around the world right now. Neil how many wil actually use it for the intentions it has . From what i read, they admit programs like this around the country have been ripe with all kinds of frauds. I would suspect a vast majority sell it. I cant imagine, you know, a lot of Homeless People are drug addicts, you know, we got by the way, we got a lot of programs out there. You know, for Homeless People, and we got a ton of progra. I know people who have n worked in 30 years. Th are alive. They have been through a zillion programs. We are a considerate country. For hose who are truly homeless, they want to be homeless. Theres shelters and things like that, but a lot sell it. If they are on drugs, they are going to sell it. You know, they are jus not going to have the phones long, the majority of them. Neil 36 states doing this. Wow. All right, charles payne, thank you very much. In the meantime, the head of boeing okay with paying more. Our position isthat both sides give a little to get a lot. Thats framing right now is substantial revenue increases. Neil well, i want you to meet the Small Business guy who has a very big problem with that guy and that kind of talk. [ engine revs ] [ male announcer ] oh what fun it is to ride get the mercedesben on your wish list at the winter event going on now through december 31st. [ santa ] ho, ho, ho [ male announcer ] lease a 2013 e350 for 579 a month at your local mercedesbenz dealer. If the president s tax increase goes through, theres a million Small Businesses in america that are going to pay higher taxes. Falls on the Small Businesses. Raising taxes on Small Business people who spent a lifetime building a Small Business staxes Small Business incomes. It kills the middle class workers who work for Small Businesses. Neil we thought it a good time, neighbor by the end of the week, check in with a Small Business guy. Are they right . Are taxes to come going to undo them . Dover cater ceo, butch, with us, good to see you. Good to see ou too, neil. Neil politicians argui on your behalf that taxes go up, even if not directly, indirectly, you pay up. What do you think . Its scary. We dont know way to do. Its already a bad economy. Now were hit with the hurricane. Neil the hurricane, notwithstanding that, the economys improving. You should be liking it. Yeah, loving it, unbelievable. Business is down 30 . Neil is it really . Its done, people are not having parties. Neil youre a cater. You dont have the big party; right . People are concerned bout their homes, south shore of long island, hit hard, thank god were in business, but we have to be careful. We have to cut back and prepare for the worst, and thats, you know, normally, this time of year, looking to expand the business, but im cutting back. Neil with what are you doing now . First thing, just protecting myself, freezing any hiring. Im not going to expand. Cutting back on overtime. Looking for any way to just, you know, cut anything thats a luxury. I cut back on the marketing, a few marketing expens, to be safe, going forward, because after that, whats going to end up with obamacare temperature months after this . Neil you are the top 2 . Whaa do you think of that that the president lum you in with being a fat cat . Well, its very sad. Its very, you know, i dont have words for it. Its just, its like embarrassing. You know . I dont know why he would you know neil sa butch, tax rates invariably go up, not as much as the president wants, maybe more than republicans fear. They are going to go up one way or another. I dont know how much. Then what . What happens . If it goes up with the working middle class will have less disposable income to spend. Neil even the top 2 , the spillover will have an effect . Top 2 is hit. They spend less as well, and look for every way to save a buck, and thats what i have to do. You know, we worry about discretionary spending, worry about how were going to make, you know, the profit in our business. We work under small profit mar gyp as it is. Everything going up and all the expenses, i dont know how were going to afford it. Neil butch, what about the idea that Smart Business guys like you like certainty . If you knew, all right, we expected taxes, and now we know how much. We know whats on the hoer hori. Its not uncertain. Isnt there a sense of closure for you and your customers . Maybe they know now and can plan accordingly, and a cloud is lifted. Its not that its a welcomed cloud replaced it, but they know what to expect and move on. Live moves on, do their parties, you do well. Well, we hope to do well. Thats the first thing. Neil right. We have to first be careful about everything we do and the price point we serve for the customers. We make it too high just to cover all the expenses, who has a party . Be careful with that and have a happy medium. Cut any luxury we have, any kind of extra spending, marketing cuts down, and the last thing i want to do is lay anybody off. Thats the worst thing to do, and i wouldnt want to do that. Im going to hone down, put the package to the for my customers so they can afford and keep my staff. I wont be able to grow, and that hurts me. I grew for 2530 years, and thats what really bothers me. Neil a disconnect between what you say, butch, as a Small Business guy and the boeing ceo saying im okay with a tax hying. Theres a balance in the package to it. You say theres a big difference between what a guy like that says an what youre saying . Yeah. I dont think that could be affected. Its the people under them who will be affected. People, like me, who are afghanned. The guy who owns a Small Business or a mom and pop cannedy store will be crushed. People wont have the money to spend, the extra buck, to do these things. Its going to hurt a lot. I hope theres app agreement thats fair enough that we can survive and continue in business. Neil you expect to be hurt, but not too much; right . Yeah, just be gentle, be gentle. Neil all right, butch, thank you very much. We wish you well. Thank you. Neil a trooper rough all f this. One of the best reads on whats really going on on this Small Business community because you know what you speak. Hes a Small Business guy. 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It must get chile . You hear of frank discsion to say it w probably a not the nicest of conversations. Also to buy there was there if you read accounts of what happened with the debt ceiling negotiations with the sense of bad blood they say john boehner walked away prematurely and the republicans say the president move the goalposts this is how you begin the president s term but they say dont poison the well comeloser to our terms and be nicer and we can meet half way the democrats say we won the election yove