Transcripts For ESPRESO 20240703

Refectory, there is a small bust of Mykola Makarenko installed by the efforts of ivan dzyub , as in the early 90s, so, like all sixties, ivan, like all sixties, ivan dzyuba too, so this story was close to his heart, when he was the minister of culture, then he made it, at least so makarenko is introduced into the kyiv space, and the street in question is exactly between sofia and mykhailivskyi, and it is called the street for a minute of Alla Tarasova, peoples artist of the ussr, mkhat artist, fivetime winner of the stalin prize, the question that she is doing there, what Alla Tarasova is doing there, and here is a note ben, here is another trick for you, mrs. Yaroslav, because historically this was troitsky lane. And even in the years of our childhood, it was troitsky provulok, and it was renamed to alu tarasova street, that is, in rapids, the shcherbyt russification sweep of kyiv, how many unfinished historical buildings of kyiv flew into the air then, how many museums were blown up then, i remember how they mourned. All the adults mourned the authentic house of the deaf levytskyi on the then pushkinska street in the yard of the Lesya Ukrainka museum, and how a restaurant was later built there on that place, and there is no museum building, the deaf levytskyi is here in the center of kyiv, the most kyivan writer can be said, who described the kyiv of the 19th century, which he left to us, well, in the end, on leather jackets everyone knows, it is redone in the blink of an eye. Then the old one for the theater, but, well, more so to speak of kyivs kyiv than the one that chuechsky gave, there is no, no, there are no traces, there is nothing left, so let s go back, lets go back to mykola, to Mykola Makarenko and to your petition, thats why that it is very important, then it was called Alla Tarasova street, and among other things, as it turned out, there is a rather powerful lobby, which means that it is in existence. There is the presence of this same ava tarasova in the kyiv area, but we have to do our own thing, us to do our thing, we will now show a qr code, it is very important, in fact, we will show a qr code by which you can vote, to name this street, which in one way or another is subject to derussification and decolonization, to name it after Mykola Makarenko, who, who fought, gave his life to give back. To us both cathedrals, but as far as im concerned, its simply our duty, not only kyivans, all ukrainians, at least everyone who considers kyiv their capital, and it would be a very nice and symbolic gesture to clean up the kyiv space, well, and then further , so stop me, what is it called, because i am simply carried on this topic, and oksana, thank you, thank you very, very much, it is important, you. Said enough important things, we will meet with you separately and we will talk, because i understand that the topic is not exhaustive, one way or another, i am asking everyone or for these people to go and support oksana zabushkos petition regarding the renaming of ala tarasova street to mykola street makarenko, or simply through kyiv digital, it is very easy for kyivites to go in and do it takes a few seconds, i am very. The story of Mykola Makarenko with what so far it is not in the space of the city, it is a pity that it is, and it is not only, it is not only an isolated moment like this, it is from the time of dzyuba, this issue has already been raised, it means that 30 years have already passed, and here is such an opinion , i am not a historian, but we were brought up in postsoviet times with the idea that churches were being undermined. Bolsheviks as religious buildings, but there was one more very important motive, that is what mrs. Oksana said, that it was kyiv that was being destroyed, these tenements, churches, because there were more churches in kyiv than in any russian city, and it was a real capital orthodox, yes, no matter how you treat it, that is, there could not be more stoned churches in kyiv than in moscow, lets say, and it was, so it was not only a bolshevik field. It was once again the Imperial Russian policy of destroying the Cultural Heritage of our native city, and what happened to mykhailivskyi is just one of the plots that happened then. You know what torments me, very much, you and i were recently in sosnytsia in chernihiv oblast, in the museum of Oleksandr Dovzhenko, and there we were told that we cannot talk, well, as if you cant talk about him. That he is a mixed bag, right . And look, in the 31st year, when the question arose, they started talking about the destruction of mykhailivskyi, Oleksandr Dovzhenko submits, submits his voice and look at what he writes, he writes the following i think that when solving the problem of building a cultural park michaels monastery is asking to leave, it has outlived its age, it is absolutely unacceptable to even think that anyone needs these walls. And what to do with it, how to talk about it, he later repented at the end of his life, yes, but how about this is to say, because Oleksandr Dovzhenko is part of our cultural canon, absolutely, but here we started with the canon, yes, and dovzhenko is not only a film director, he is a writer, and a very cool writer, yes, and well, the right hand is enchanted, maybe we will remember it , and so. It is clear that Oleksandr Dovzhenko belongs to our canon, it is obvious that, say, the film zemlya, despite the fact that, in my opinion, there is a legitimization of the holodomor, in fact we do not talk about it, but it is also there , and it is no coincidence that he won the stalin prize, as far as i know, for this particular film, but dovzhenko cannot but belong to our canon, after all, any artist is a rather controversial figure, that is why we admire art, because such onedimensional stereotyped figures do not create interesting art, but here is what i thought thought, it was when i read andruhovichs book lover of justice, we met with him immediately after that in the zaporozhye toloki, and i told him, we were sitting, i say, listen, it seems to me that you have done a very important thing, you are in this book such a message is very important to me, and what is this book about, this is a book about criminals, yes, about. Their criminals in our history, and i say that for me, well, apart from the literary value of this book, there is an important, important political message, a politicalhistorical message, a politicalhistorical a cultural message that we should create not only the pantheon of our heroes, but also the besteary of our criminals, we should do it ourselves, we should not have russians or other europeans come and tell us who is who among us. Or the americans, or anyone anyone, no, we ourselves have to speak, this, this, this part of our history, and even more, it often happens that in one period it is a hero, and in another period the same person, such things are assumed, and we ourselves have to speak about it, and in many ways what we it is imposed, first of all by the russians, why, because we simply have a vacuum, we have not talked about our traumas, and we go to where we do not have a position. The enemy enters there and begins to manipulate, the same with dovzhenko. Listen, now anton rubovych , the director of the institute of national remembrance, will tell you that here is bulgakov, and here he is not telling you, what is it, that he should be included in the bestiary on the list, in the bestiary of criminals, but he says that we should and should only talk about bulgakov. In kyiv, because if he sinned in any way, yes, then he sinned here, dont you think that bulgakov is such a character that he should be included in this list . No, bulgakov is obviously not our character. Bulgakov this is exactly why i said that we need to deimperialize our consciousness and our culture. Bulgakov is an emperor. The most important thing, as far as im concerned, is if take his portrait, this is an imperial writer, and, and, and we are not an empire. And, we, we, dont claim to be an empire, we claim to be a liberal democracy, i hope so, after all, well, thats how i see our country and what were fighting for in the end, but we dont want to to be neither. Part of an empire nor the center of an empire. Bulgakov is an imperialist, bulgakov is a xenophobe, he is not just a ukrainophobe. Bulgak is a xenophobe, he is a chauvinist, he hates everything that is not russian, and when these manipulations take place, they say, you cannot to identify the author with his hero, yes, you cant, this is from the position of literary studies, its not very correct, but all the same, the heroes speak partly from the author, besides, take, take his works of art, take him to. The caucasus, what a miracle, he practically did not live there, he hardly knew that caucasus, but he hates it, and this is an absolutely xenophobic, chauvinistic and characteristic position for russians, it is the same today for the caucasus, for ukraine, for moldova, for the baltic countries countries and on, on, on, thats why if you distinguish bulgakov is not just not our writer, he is a russian writer and he is a very dangerous writer, and precisely because he is talented. Writer, there are no questions, then he is even more dangerous, but here are two points, when they talk about bolgakov, what is driving me, lets say why we are fighting with the authors of the white guard, which is obvious to me ukrainophobic, and so that they do not write that no matter what they say, this is a ukrainophobic novel, i remember when you mentioned that we went to sosnytsia, and pena and i were once in kherson, and we met there with the director of kherson. Someone from the theater, oleksandr kniga, and he told when he was arrested by the facebook people, firstly, when they went to his office and saw the russian literature there, they told him, you are reading the right books, and the second question was, and you put the white guard, well that idiots didnt understand that it is possible to stage days of troubles, and because days of troubles is a play, and the white guard is a novel, but they know that the white guard is a chauvinistic russian novel, and today it absolutely is. Built into russian propaganda, thats why bulgakov obviously hated kyiv, he treated kyiv, ukraine, petlyura, the idea of ​​our independence is generally viewed with hatred, he puts into the mouth of the white guard, remember, admiration for the bolsheviks, why, because they are russians, this horde of russians is coming to kyiv , and that what muravyov did in kyiv was practically a bucha scaled to the extreme in kyiv, kyiv was covered in blood for a generation, and what the russians repeated in bucha is the same. Well, butch is already such a name for all their crimes, and you started talking about what makes you angry, angry, for some reason we dont talk about the city of pidmogilny, a modernist novel, really modernity, and ill tell you why we dont, because we dont know it, well we, we know, no, i say we, how we, how society in the broad sense and those that we havent read, we dont know a girl with a demontovych bear, we dont know any other kyivan texts, so the only kyivan text that we have is bulgakovs text, the city, the teasing star mars, but if you even compare, im not a literary critic and they can fly away here stones in my direction, but in my opinion the white guard is a skillfully written novel, but this novel is very secondary, in my opinion, it is not an experimental novel, instead, the city is an experimental, then a modernist novel, well, let literary critics criticize me for this, if they dont agree with me, i do. Thinks, likes, doesnt like, thats another question, its a ukrainianlanguage modernist novel about our city, another question is interesting, there is another russianlanguage novel about kyiv, written by a kyivan who loves kyiv, its in to the native city in the native city of nykrasov, why do these bolhakovites, yes, these fans, here in russianspeaking kyiv, do not mention the fact that only a sign hangs in nikrasov, it seems in the passage where he lived, nor a museum. There is no, and there are no mentions, despite the fact that in the native garden it is written with great love for kyiv, and if there are any fans of russian literature still left here, then let them get along better with viktor nikrasov. Why viktor nykrasov, no . Because bulgakov, despite his, as it were, antibolshevism and anticommunism, he is inscribed in the russian imperial canon, absolutely inscribed, in fact, he sought to be inscribed, that is why he writes about stalin, batum, and, he, he. He, a sycophant who tries to fit into this new communist canon, and does not fit in, and and by the way, what is interesting, bulgakov will happen on the 21st, well you. Moscow, although the white emigration that he sings about, on the 21st, when he flees, he flees to flees not to moscow, the white emigration flees, and in he has a play about the fact that the white emigration was not stalins favorite, it runs away, it flees to paris, to europe, and nikrasov in the 70s, when it was much more difficult to leave the soviet union, he leaves and lives out his life in paris. In exile, not in the soviet union, because he did not fit into this imperial canon. Bulgakov fits perfectly into the imperial canon, as a chauvinist, as a xenophobe, and he has a place there, so here is the problem we started talking about, bulgakov is clearly a russian writer, and he is clearly a very dangerous russian writer, so this is not our bestiary . No, this is not our bestiary, nikrasov he is a russian writer, but he loves kyiv, he writes about kyiv with love, he writes a very. Unambiguous novel, in general, i dont know how it can be because of the fact that he received the stalin prize for in the trenches of stalingrad, he was given the opportunity to print, to print this novel, which was then completely destroyed, and read it, i dont want to spoil who hasnt read it, but again, despite the fact that nykrasov is a kyivan who writes with love about kyiv, this part of russian literature, and this is how it should be treated, and it is the same today dangerous, precisely because it is talented, written, and what about. Lugakovov too, but again, i know that there will be a scream from the fans, it seems to me that he is a very overrated writer in general, he is only the number one star in russian, this corner of world literature, because those who hang around with the master and marguerite, the master and marguerite, and, well, please, read hoffmanns elixirs of satan, read the angel of the west, here i think that we all read it very young, for example, i. When i studied in the second year of the Masters University margarita, of course i was also impressed by the white guard, but perhaps it is worth rereading it, but it is the way you reread it, no, so that you, so that you understand, yes, that is, when you, i, when i reread, i reread, i realized that it is not as strong as it seemed to me at the time, that is, for a 20yearold child, and a young person, it can be wow, and then you understand, it is like a steppe wolf, a hermanogsa, you admire those 20 years. Then the steppe wolf should be read in the german original, believe me otherwise, bulgakov a masterful writer, there are no questions, but this is not the genius of mankind, but he is very overrated in our country, because he is not so well known in the west anymore, why does he complain so much, why does he complain so much, why are there so many storms, that was the conclusion to the institute of national remembrance, yes, regarding the inadmissibility of glorification, which screams started again, what do you say . Could have provoked, i read it before going on the air, it is written in a terrible language, such kando, yes, that is, according to the message , i agree, but how is it done, and in the same place well, mostly the reaction, as it was done, but also the answer of the museum, you can find a lot of internal contradictions there, i. Again i say, we are a democratic country, despite the terrible war that is being waged against us by russia, and that is being waged against we are russia, and we cannot ban writers, the question is not whether we banned bolgakov or not, we will not come to libraries, private ones, and remove these books, or burn the books of russian writers in the squares, as they do with ukrainian literature, as real nazis, the question is not that, the question is that bulgakov is pushkin, this is an imperial marker. There cannot be monuments to these imperial writers on our streets, it cannot be, i would, for example, the museum should be kept as a research center, or i would, for example, call it there a museum of research, research of russian chauvinism, for example, and bulak the chauvinist , a chauvinist, but he is not the only one, i can imagine what kind of reaction the bulabitnik, the leaders of this would be, maybe it would be terrible, but i am so radicalizing, you can find a formula. Ugh, and researchers have to explore, i even had such a metaphor once, that what is russia, it is the plague barrack of history, but who should go into the plague barrack, well, in order to treat, why should we treat, doctors, risking health and life, as well as in who, writers, philosophers, historians, social researchers, psychiatrists, even that, because i am sure that it is also a mental with. Happen, yes, if with pride it is a person, if he says this with a sense of guilt, then, well, you can still listen to this person, but im not like that met, therefore it must be researched, it cannot be researched, the enemy must be known, but it must not be a subject on our land, and when we erect monuments, when we name houses, when we open or preserve museums in honor of these people, then we simply mark the presence of the russian empire here, which is already killing us physically. Look, we have three minutes left, i ca nt help but ask about another initiative, also written in a very interesting language, so there is a position, there is such an Initiative Group that arose, as i understand it, in the bowels of the kyiv musical academies, thats what we call the tchaikovsky conservatory, thats how an Initiative Group was created, which says that it is necessary to return to ukrainian culture people who. Have ukrainian roots, despite the fact that they even created imperial culture, for example, they say about chekhov, aivazovsky, kuindzhii and, i quote, a descendant of the cossack family of chayok, tchaikovsky. There is a lot mixed up here, but it is just interesting to understand what you think about this initiative, because there are also quite decent people who signed it, for example, akhtem seitablai, viktor yushchenko, and so on many others. Culture, what do you think about this . Well, first of all, we have to understand that if we treat questions of history like scientists, and this is a question of history, then the argument of ethnic origin is not scientific, it is some kind of primordialism, that ukrainianness is something that is given from birth, its blood and soil, well, then im not ukrainian, but i have very little ukrainian blood, so im a constructivist here, thank god, a clear majority of our modern historians and. I repeatedly repeat this formula of Benedict Anderson nations are a narrative, nations and narratives. Nations are products of the public imagination, and therefore it matters in what language we form these ideas, and it does not matter so much where a person was born, you can be born in ukraine, have a ukrainian surname and be a russian nazi, as we can see many of the fugitives who are in moscow today , ethnic ukrainians, they call to kill us. Isnt this an initiative to simply preserve the tea industry . I think its commercial, i think its a commercial initiative in general, because you have to sell places for foreigners, lets say those who want, i know there are a lot of chinese came to study, and tchaikovsky, yes, tchaikovsky is this label, but its a russian label, you cant do anything with it, tchaikovsky, although with literature its easier, there the marker is language, with music its more difficult, although again, why is it more difficult, the most famous tchaikovskys operas, they are connected with russian plots, yes, lets not discuss it now and. Russian literature, and, well, with ballets, in a different way, as you know, the lake line, he generally conceived in bavaria, in the south of bavaria, after seeing it the lake near, near the castle, but tchaikovsky, we have more to understand the historical context, tchaikovsky is perceived everywhere as a russian composer, and we remember these more. There you remember the swan lakes, when the next gentsek dies , even on television, but i would like swan lakes to be on in russia right now on all channels, yes in this, in this we would accept, okay here, and for them. For us, we have to look at the world soberly. Tchaikovsky is a russian composer in the whole world, we will not be able to make him ukrainian, and we dont need to, and we have our own, and we should do our own, as said our classics is something to be proud of, and more, again, it is an imperial complex, and here, for example, i was liniv recently and another long topic, we dont have time, oksana liniv, a worldfamous conductor, originally from the city of brodyv, she is currently promoting ukrainian music, trying to do it, but there are no ukrainian masterpiece operas there, lets say classical ones of the 19th and 20th centuries, well , there arent, then there arent. Well, i have a hard time in the area of ​​music, im not so much in the material, well, lets say there is a large amount, if already in my field of competence, there are a large number of beautiful, successful european nations that do not have their original, their original philosophy, so what . Nothing, they live well, they have their own literature, moreover, the recognition that we dont have something is a guarantee that it will appear, like the fantastic czech novel of the second half of the 20th century, prague was all german. At the beginning of the 20th, at the end of the 19th, it was associated with prague , first of all, kavka, or the same meinrich, who writes novels about prague there, in german, it is austria after all, but awareness. That this is so, already in the second, in the second half of the 20th century, the kundera phenomenon, the grabala phenomenon, and this world class fantastic novel, that is, this is the way, but we must honestly say, here we have it, and we are proud of it, it is our , its not clear here, our same one can be a hero in some ways, in some ways a casualty, but here we just have a vacuum, we dont have it, we dont have it, and we have to calmly admit it and work to make it happen. Thank you for this conversation, a short truth conversation, always the most interesting begins when you have to finish the program, thank you for the conversation, vakhtan kibuladze, philosopher and writer was a guest of the program own names, we will see you in a week, thank you, i will start this. Program on the amazing story of sixyearold sofiyka golynska. The girl lived with her mother in odesa in the city of balta. And imagine, it disappeared at the end of 2020. The police say that the child was kidnapped by her grandmother, lyudmila holinska. And for more than three years, it is not known where the woman is hiding the child. It was established that in december 2020 at a woman kidnapped her threeyearold daughter in the territory of the baltsky district of the odesa region. Sofya golynska, and their exact location is still unknown. Lyudmila mykhaylivna golynska 01. 04, born in 1968, height about 162170 cm, dense build, thick skinned, hair color can change, light eyes, has visible moles in the area of ​​the nasolabial fold. Previously, there was a version that already during a fullscale war, the child could be taken abroad to one of the countries. Of the european union, and recently the police said that the alleged abductor of the girl, her grandmother, may currently be in kyiv. Of course, if you follow her trail, there is a high probability of establishing the whereabouts of the child. But sofias grandmother carefully disguises herself and constantly changes her appearance, but i really hope that one of you will recognize her and help establish her location and , most importantly, in this way. Find sixyearold sofiyka golinska. I am appealing to everyone, especially kiyan, if anyone has seen this woman or knows where she may be, please call us immediately on the childrens tracing Service Hotline on the short number 11630. Calls from all mobile operators are free. As for sixyearold sofiyka, it is now very difficult to describe her appearance. Imagine, the girls mother last saw her little one when sofiyka was only three. Sofiyka has grown up and changed, but i dont think that it is so drastic that she is unrecognizable, so please look carefully at her face. The girl has big blue eyes and light blond hair, approximately 110120 cm tall. In these photos, she is about 3 years old, but this is one of the last pictures where sofia is about 3. 5. Of course, the girls mother also has a video. Let me remind you that now the girl is almost seven years old, of course, she already speaks normally and expresses her thoughts. I really hope that someone will definitely recognize her and help find her, at least a little news about sofiyka golynska will comfort and reassure her mother. At the moment, i dont know what she looks like and in what condition she is, i am asking for your concern people, as you will all see, of about the same age as her, please call, i am begging you, thank you. You and i are the only hope for ms