Returns after a few minutes break, and now we will have a guest from georgia, but he is not there yet, so mr. Vitaly, i guess we will talk about what is happening now in georgia, the adoption of the law on foreign agents, foreign agents, or agents influence, well , relatively speaking, its a kind of tracing paper from. Russian law, plus or minus somewhere. And by the way, a very similar law was also adopted in kyrgyzstan. Mr. Vitaly, how do you assess such actions of the georgian authorities, why now, why is georgia sliding towards such postulates of russian authoritarianism . Well, by the way, this is an interesting story, because in georgia this law has not yet been adopted, in kyrgyzstan it has already been adopted and signed by the president. And here we can clearly say that this is not just some kind of, you know, formal thing, because after we signed the law on kyrgyzstan, president kasym japarov, he said that there will be no problems there would be no difficulty with public organizations, and after he said that, public organizations began to close down one after another. Just a few days ago, despite all these assurances of sadir japarov, the Soros Foundation kyrgyzstan stopped working. And you understand that for such a small country as kyrgyzstan, every such organization that allows the creation of public initiatives, independent media, is a huge story, and here we have a simple situation, here was kyrgyzstan, which was always considered just one of these exceptions from Central Asian politics, because the power changed, independents appeared. The media, there were different Political Parties in the parliament, even if they were clans, of course mutually, but people knew that when they go and vote, they can change the government, or through a rebellion, and as you understand, in tajikistan, uzbekistan, in turkmenistan, even in kazakhstan, you will not change the power in this way, that is, it was the only small country, yes, not like the others in terms of the number of inhabited territories, but which showed that in central asia it is possible to build a democracy, as soon as kyrgyzstan. During the time of Sadyr Zhaparov began to drift towards russia, actions related to the liquidation of this democracy immediately began, and you understand that the regime of Sadyr Zhaparov is not threatened by anything, he is very popular, he came to power in the wake of popular protest, he may have real ones. The chances of recommending deputies who are elected to the parliament, this is the kind of zelensky, you understand, but why did he take such steps, if he is so popular and there are problems, i think that its because you are getting closer to moscow, and when you get closer to moscow, they tell you in moscow, and somehow its not very good, comrade zhaparov, if you have some incomprehensible public organizations funded by the americans, you dont think that these are them. Organizations are friendly to us, the ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation issued a statement that it believes that all these public organizations in the countries of central asia have an antirussian character, and this is an ordinary educational conversation, and it is not even at the level putin may be at the level of some officials, but here you have organizations financed by the americans, you have publications. Newspapers financed by the americans, one of the first measures of the new kyrgyz government was an attempt to limit the activities of the local services of radio liberty, what before. By the way, what happened in uzbekistan, what happened in turkmenistan, that is, as soon as you think that you need to get closer to moscow, you are immediately told that either you are with our enemies or you are not with us, why do you allow our enemies to act on their territory, its not even a question of zaparov, its that these publications and these organizations, they can talk completely differently about the russianukrainian war, but look how many people among the kazakhs sympathize with ukraine, its because. This tradition, i would say, of pluralism in the media, no matter what, it is not lost in kazakhstan, there is Russian Television, but people, people who, say, watch the news there in kazakh or kyrgyz, they, like you you see, may have alternative sources information, by the way, in kazakhstan, i want to say that part of Russian Television was limited in 2022, 2023, and this is a big step, because the vastans are afraid to share our fate. In other words, we are talking about the fact that such belarusianization is taking place in kyrgyzstan and already in georgia, to a certain extent. Well, in any, i would say, authoritarianism, which wants to focus on russia, is forced to build statehood according to the russian example. And as you remember, it was always like that in ukraine. Why were all our protests so serious, or our government wanted falsify elections. Or she refused european integration, and you remember the example in armenia, where the russians really managed to convince the then president serzh sarkhsyan that it was necessary to refuse the agreement on european association. And armenia was immediately brought to the Eurasian Union before the csto, and then, when the real problem began, the war, it turned out that russia was not going to defend it . This is also a very good example, that is, for moscow, the main thing is to separate. Connecting the postsoviet space and the civilized world, by the way, is interesting moment, but if there will be any chinese financing of, say, public organizations in kyrgyzstan, this will also be limited, will they also be under the strict supervision of president japarovs administration . I think not, because first of all, we understand that russia and china are at least partners, and in fact russia. Is china a hegemon in relation to russia at least now , and by the way, states such as kazakhstan tend to china, we know it well that chinese money goes there, chinese money also goes to belarus, about which we mentioned, so chinese money enters mongolia the same, for example, that is, we are states that russia would like to influence, it is clear that it is also strengthening there. China also has its influence, and in this case we are aware that chinese organizations, chinese businesses, Chinese Media projects, they will work in these countries, which, including russia, wants to expand. By the way, the kyrgyz law is great for you organizations that are recognized as ground representatives must submit additional reports, report quarterly to state institutions about how they. Used the money, to submit a report every six months on their activities, on their leaders, there may be unscheduled inspections if the state bodies, leaders of organizations that try to influence citizens to refuse to fulfill their civil duties, what does this mean, we dont know if its a fine or they can be imprisoned for up to 5 years if. Any information is reported, it is possible to set a fine or be imprisoned for 5 years if repeated violation, an even greater fine, or deprivation of liberty for 10 years, for which, i wonder, do you imagine, this actually criminalizes public and journalistic activity, it de facto criminalizes any dissent, that is, that is, in essence, one course, one party. In the case of georgia, here we come back, we see a somewhat similar path, and unfortunately, the georgian authorities are choosing it now, but there is a difference, there is already our, dear guest, i hope we will have it now, there is, there is an important the moment that georgia is a candidate for membership of the european union, everything can be understood with kyrgyzstan, kazakhstan, or kyrgyzstan, i apologize, like other central az. Countries , some members of the collective security treaty organization, it is a member of the eurasian economic union, but georgia, it is a candidate for membership of the european union, and i am now reading from these representatives of the georgian authorities. From the Prime Minister, lets say what he says, if we are accepted into the european union, we will change this law, or cancel it altogether, what are the problems, we will be guided by it until we are not in the european union, well, this is a completely distorted idea of european integration, you understand, and why is georgia taking such a path, what, what, what is wrong with the georgian authorities that they allow themselves to adopt such laws, and that, by the way , not the first. Bill, not the first attempt and not the first bill that actually moves georgia towards the russian scenario, by the way, the Prime Minister of georgia said this week that they would not like to go down the path of ukrainization, but actually this is also a very interesting thing, whats wrong with the georgian government now i think it is the problem of any government that already has a monopoly in society, but they fear that its monopoly will be taken away, by the way. Our telethon is exactly the same genesis. So it would seem. Benziniy ivanishvili, like volodymyr zelenskyi, is not in danger. There is an obvious level of support. There is an obvious rating of the Georgian Dream. We understand that in the next parliamentary elections, the Georgian Dream will most likely win, form a government, and elect a new president. The question arises as to what, relatively speaking, an independent should do the Media Community or public organizations that threaten these people, but they dont even fear any criticism that they dont control. Sovereign democracy, this is an advantage vladyslav surkov, sovereign democracy is when you have control and at the same time control manifestations of the opposition, that is, there are some other opinions, but they are also controlled, this is how it was in russia in the. Organization, even the memorial worked , but as soon as you go a little further, you control, it seems to me that this is the system they want to create. George kandelaki, former georgian parliamentarian, representative of the sovelap organization is in touch with us. Congratulations, mr. George. Good evening. So explain to us, i am trying to understand with my colleague why your government is following this strange path, why do they now have a law on foreign influence, can you explain to us . In fact, no one, not even the majority of Georgian Dreams do not understand why. Was in the circle of this adventure on the eve of the elections, but it is not necessary to really understand to the end, because we can reflect, taking publicly announced things, it is known that this initiative is praised by the leaders of russia, lavrov, volodin, dugin, he likes this law very much, and at the same time this the law is criticized. The leaders of the civilized world, the president of the european council, Charles Michel and others, the United States, etc. , and this is all said, this is enough to do for georgia first of all, also for our friends conclusions, what we are talking about, we are talking about the fact that this tree of georgia is in the orbit of the kremlin. Causes a very sharp reaction of our society, and this situation is developing by itself, mr. Georgy, please tell me, you have already mentioned the georgian society, whether your society in opposition to the georgian one now has an opportunity to stop this process of actual belarusianization of the country. The conclusion and conclusion of this process is difficult to predict, it was once a year when the same law, the same law, was proposed through the sharp reaction of the society, he was recalled , was fortunately stopped by the number of people on the streets and the energy of the protests and. My hopes prevail, the hopes of others prevail. So, three days passed and there were no planned protests at all. Were preparing for the second reading in the parliament, and the process was just beginning, but for the third day in a row , young people have blocked rustaveli avenue, today there was a march of women, georgian women, spontaneous protests of the Younger Generation in the evenings, and this guard and the intensity of these pro. Protests give reason for optimism, but very difficult to understand what will be the result, the determined society is very high, but on the other hand there is this fanatical, fanatical position of the Georgian Dream of the ivanishvili regime, after all, how it will look from the point of view of the european integration of georgia, because the government must continue this course along with it, must try something. To do for the start of negotiations, they have already warned that all this can significantly worsen the situation, in principle, even disrupt the process of negotiations of georgia on joining the european union, why ivanishvili and his team . Why ivanishvili, his team, again still, it is difficult to analyze, i probably already said about it. It is difficult to understand the logic of his actions, on the one hand he expresses strength, shows, shows strength, as last year, this is motivation, but the main reason lies in the processes that are not very well known, in general, in my opinion, to the opinions of many others, this applies directly to russia, and this is the governments game with russia. Thats why its for them, answering your question, why its for them, the Prime Minister of georgia stated that he is very afraid of the threat of ukrainization, that is , it turns out that ukraine is Something Like they say, for georgia, this was scary, so to speak. Tell me, please, why, why does the Prime Minister speak like that, and is ukraines example a bad one . For georgia, well, from the point of view of the georgian authorities, and what is ukrainianization from their point of view . They mean war and bloodshed, and again, they are playing on the fact that for georgia the 2008 war is a living memory and still are, and they are playing on insurance before the war, their platform is precisely that we. Are bad, but if its not us, it will be worse, there will be a war, you want this or not, and in this vein, this propaganda is 100 coincident, synchronized, and one can even say that it is coordinated from the kremlin by the russian authorities, and this is the understanding they put in, they have spoiled georgianukrainian relations for a long time, contrary to the sentiments of our society, which , of course. Fully supports ukraine, but this fear of war, what happened in 2008, when our country was forced to stand against russia alone, and this, this, what, what it is playing on kremlin propaganda, government georgia, the georgian government is 100 the conduit of russian propaganda, such a unique and tragic situation that fell on our heads from the other side of the diplomats. You have no relations with russia, abkhazia and South Ossetia continue to be effectively annexed by russia, because the russian state has an agreement with them on joint military support, how can you be prorussian on the one hand, and on the other hand oppose the occupation of georgian territories by russia, as is it all in one head , if you will . Politicians as such, they have nothing against the occupation do not do, especially in the international arena, the main dimension and the main test for all this is whether georgia is active in the international arena, in terms of opposition, opposition to occupation, occupation, deoccupation. For example, the inclusion of the issue of georgia, the occupied territories of georgia, in the international agenda, in the International Sanctions imposed on russia. Why not. It is a simple georgian interest that our issue be in a package with ukraine on the diplomatic front, but the georgian government is firmly against this, and thereby demonstrates that it is de facto already satellite of russia, this is our authenticity, this is reality. Expert on east asian issues, master of Foreign Affairs. Politicians, mrs. Natalia, good evening, good evening, well, lets try to understand with you what is happening now with chinese interest in the russianukrainian track, after all, when the chinese say that they are ready to provide a platform for a russianukrainian conference , that there should be bilateral communication, that a conference in which russia will not be present makes no sense, it is practically the same as what the russians themselves say, that they do they want to achieve at all . Well, actually speaking, they voiced their position, what you said what russia wants. We have a platform for negotiations, the global summit offered by ukraine is fair, but you can see that even under the pressure of our partners, at the great request of china, we have not yet seen an agreement, that is, not today it has not agreed to participate in this global summit. Because china, well, first of all, it pursues a different goal, uh, china, in any case , with its neutrality, it is on the side of russia, and what russia has announced, that it is not recognizes this summit, well, it is obvious, because the peace formula is not about what russia wants, accordingly, china is trying with all its efforts to achieve not only the participation of russia and ukraine in this international summit, but they propose that it should be a platform recognized by both sides, that there should be equal conditions for both sides and that different proposals, different peace proposals should be discussed, well, here too china is obviously not against pushing the negotiation table and the proposals it had, especially since lavrov already talked about the fact that the chinese plan is not so bad, and in this case, on the one hand , the interests of russia are preserved and promoted, on the other hand, china acts as a peacemaker, and this affects this process from its chinese side. Ms. Nataliya, the following question here is the United States secretary of state anthony blinken, he actually warned china about russia. Conventionally speaking, this warning sounded like china cannot, as they say, sit or stand with one foot in both shoes. Tell me, be it please, does the United States of america have any methods of influencing china so that , relatively speaking, this great country at least maintains such a real neutrality. Well, the United States is trying. You what they can, this pressure, on the one hand, and blinken announced to his western partners during the nato summit at the level of Foreign Ministers, that china helps russia and named a whole list, like this, what exactly it helps, he there is quite a lot, it is so that the western partners also take into account during their summits, during their meetings, and there have already been meetings. For example, scholz has already met with chinese leaders, and there will be more meetings because xi jinping is planning a visit to france, just for them to focus on this and for them to connect to the pressure that the United States of america is putting, there are not so many tools , no matter how much china talks about secondary sanctions, no matter how much it opposes them, but from my point of view it is still a method because. When the Financial Institutions of the United States the states began to be really pressured and threatened with real sanctions against chinas Financial Institutions, only then all these. Operations that took place between the two countries and even in yuan, they were very seriously affected, and this is not only, lets say, the information that speaks about the western press, these are real things that the russians themselves are talking about, it is really very difficult to conduct Financial Transactions between the two countries now, and the chinese are really checking very clearly everything that may even have any touch on the goods, for example, double appointment. Or what may be on the sanctions lists, that is, from my point of view , the method is precisely the whip in relation to china, it must act, it must act very carefully and very seriously, and not only against china itself, because, for example, our group that observes under yermak mcfauls sanctions, she also displayed a list of various microcircuits, elements used by the Russian Military industry, which. Are still being purchased by western companies, and it is obvious that these exports are not only going through china, because china was also important place reexport, but also through many other countries, and they also need to be pressured, they also need to be punished with sanctions, there is no other way, just conspiracy and appeals to conscience, well, they do not work. China, in particular, it should know that russias support, russias cooperation with russia, it has a very serious price for it, and here are these warnings that were sounded during the meeting of the Foreign Ministers of the group of seven in capri that china should choose with whom to be, so to speak, with the intelligent or with the beautiful, or with europeans or with russians, as far as they can be taken seriously in beijing . From my point of view, they should be articulated separately by the leaders of european countries, for example, during a visit. Scholz raised the issue of chinas support for russia, but when china is given the upper hand, when china, for example, sees, in the case of lets say, with germany, that the economic relations of germany, including, they are tied to china, and there can be certain manipulations, then obviously he will try to sit in these two shoes. Still blinkin when he raised his eyes talking. He is obviously counting to a more serious approach by european partners, in particular scholz and in particular macron, and these conversations, they should not be through the prism of some kind of further cooperation, they should still be a certain condition, especially since for the european union, the war with russia against ukraine, it is not about some conflict that does not concern them, it is because of this. A clear awareness of their own threat, and accordingly, the fact that china supports the militaryindustrial complex, and the entire defense of russia, nato generals and military, european military, they speak and they realize that in the future this support is indirect to china, but still exists, it can turn into military actions by russia against the european union, in the event that, for example, they fail, ukraine fails to stop, lets say, russia, that is , it is important here that this awareness is supported by a clear articulation and clear such steps and signals in relation to china, then it will, from my point of view, at least have some such drawn red lines, what is possible, what is not, and can this happen , what china will switch from. The supply of such technological goods to a certain extent to the direct supply of military goods to russia, i. E. Weapons, is china ready to actually take such actions . It seems to me that today, china is not ready for this, because it will be connected with the serious complication of relations with the United States of america and the european union, it will mean that it has crossed a red line, but thats all. Still, that is precisely why blinken and other european leaders are talking about the inadmissibility of this aid, for today it a preventive conversation for china so that he does not do this, for now, we will think, for china, it is enough, and its personal interests in the american market, in western technologies and in the desire to still keep moderate. Relations with the western world from america