Russia has responded by striking power plants. Plunging much of the north east of the country into darkness were asking ukraines battle field gates put in under pressure with hello and welcome to to the point. It is a pleasure to greet our guests than to lena fun. Brideau is european. That business and finance correspondent for the economist magazine. Your glow is Foreign Affairs correspondent at the german weekly dick fight. And its very great pleasure to welcome my colleagues adam here as he passed back. He works with d ws, russian language desk, and vladimir, the ukrainian offensive seems to have caught the Russian Forces and leadership entirely off guard. Is that is, is, that should be that the case. It, this russians were off guard indeed, but i would not, they could talk about it like a turning point of this or because its too late to say, but its a huge success. Ukrainian army. Huge been very important signal for the ukrainian politics and for the cranium, population navy. And what is the lightning speed of this campaign . Tell us about the state of Russian Forces it. There was a lot about the state of the agreement for as a source for graham forces are able to do for Intelligence Office near the foreign flooring Weapons Systems to push back russians from from huge territories. And they were completely surprised, took by surprised by that, by this possibility of the green army, vincent vendor, lena, this has been one of the biggest, if not the biggest counter offensive since world war 2 in europe. The russian retreat has been chaotic. The russians have left ample supplies of both ammunition and military kit behind to the delight of ukrainian forces, of course, but expelling, Occupying Forces is one thing actually, retaining. Newly one territory is another. Do you think ukraine can do it . Yeah, im not sure. And id be also careful not to make too much of to say its a turning point. I dont think it is yet. I think its comparable to, you know, at the very beginning brush i thought they could take here within days and then the whole thing will be over within a week. And there was a big defeat. Now this is the 2nd big defeat off of this whole campaign. But russia still occupies about 20 percent of your current territory. So you know, we still have a long way to go and i think it will, you know, itll become a war of attrition. Sadly, i dont think thats changed. Let me ask her to comment on exactly that president. So lensky ukrainian president made a surprise visit to the city of him this week and said that his troops, quote what and quote a will press on, is the m, is viewed as a gateway to the industrial part of the east to the industrial region of don bass, which of course has been the main focus of russias ambitions. Would you say that the ukrainians have a good chance of building on the momentum to actually make real in roads there . I think so, jim is a very important logistical hub for defenders and used to be one for the aggressors. And this is, this is a major step for, for them, but also the appearance of soleski on seen contrast that with fulton bass sitting in a bunker all the time. And thats, thats such a different way of know, presenting your case to the world public that i think this also makes, makes a huge difference also for ukrainians and for, for the spirit of the defenders theyre letting me do you think put in aims for the dumbass are doomed, know, i would hope yes, but im afraid not, not yet because its just one step or im it was out on this very long corps, and we would not expect that the war is over in the next weeks. Saw the russian government and the russians derbyshire, and president bank himself communicating with georgia, express, spur, ferguson and moscow communicating even whether their russian will russia will follow the goal set for the specially military operations. Are the russians, doesnt that or didnt give up the goals, which are removing of the Ukrainian Government and dennis, if occasion so called in if that occasion of the ukraine, the destruction of their civil and military infrastructure is going on. As we see after the contra infancy in cardiff origin, russia struck the power lines, russell struck them, right. So its the horror is going on. And the goals are the same. Still the same. And lets say drill a bit deeper on that and take a closer look at a counter offensive. It stunned, not only Russian Forces and politicians, but also western military experts. Shattered russian tanks and positions. They testified the force of the ukrainian attack, but also to the element of surprise in the Rapid Advances with this who keeps troops recaptured huge sections of territory in east, in ukraine, within a short period of time. The ukrainian president currently speaks of more than 6000 square kilometers. According to military experts, Ukrainian Territorial gains thus exceed those of the russians for 5 months in less than a week. On the one hand, the counter offensive testifies to the military competence of the ukrainians and the effectiveness of western weapon systems. But it also highlights the desert it state of the Russian Military. Moscow, on the other hand, speaks only of regrouping its troops to reinforce its units in the next region. But observe is now even no longer rule out a rapid collapse of the russian war machine, or the recent successes of the ukrainian military. The long for turning point in this wow. Yeah, let me put that question straight away to you because weve heard both the other guest say its not a turning point. How do you say . Well, its militarily, it might not be the turning point of the war, but its very important because its the 1st time weve had good news from the battlefield in very many months. And its very important for the ukrainians going into that winter. That will be very hard for them all for europeans, but for the ukraines it will be very hard and to, to make sure that western support will not dry up. Its very important for them to present these successes now. So i think in that sense it might be not a turning point, but a very important point in the campaign. I want to talk a little bit about before we come to the west, i want to talk a little bit about what all this means for letting me put it in. And interestingly enough, since this counter offensive vladimir, there has been no, were the criticism of putin at home, as well as a broad of course. But tell us a little bit about the voices youre hearing at home in russia was remarkable. I mean, the news of the dozens of small dip, which is a very small russian opposition. Politicians, most of them 1st before demanding the resentment of britain. Its not really new, its very garage because people, but this is not new, but really new. Is that voice from the line from the, from the really needed to the heart line or from rooms on color, if the president of just now who is demanding the rethinking of the Russian Military strategy in the ukraine and who it was a well, even talking about visiting moscow and talking to the leadership of the Russian Ministry by himself. This is very important science of the, of the parts of the Russian Military, establishment of the part of russian hotline and not being cap. Its with the grand total. And its very strong signals on the, on the right side and awesome. What would you expect it to mean for Vladimir Putin . How would you expect him to react . I would be surprised to the more that is not escalating the situation for you today. Im not sure in which form it will be happening, but it will be the next step of escalation, the worse i would expect. And alina, would you agree with that assessment . Sadly, yes, and weve already seen it. You know, hes the russians have bombarded Critical Infrastructure or power stations, a damn. You know, this is very painful for the civilian population. So in some ways the escalations over the started, well come back to that as well in a, in a moment. But your, let me ask you about your assessment of the political situation in russia. Your paper this week published an opinion piece by the russian historian, historian Vladimir Kara mother who reminds us that in the past political upheaval in russia often came with stunning speed. And he predicts that could happen again. Should the west start preparing for a rush when it put in . Well, how do you prepare for that situation . I mean its, its unforeseeable because this person has been in charge for such a long time for, for 20 years. No more than 20 years. But its true that a military defeat has brought Sweeping Change in russia many times. I mean, we seen it after the defeat in afghanistan. It opened new possibilities for the opposition, but also for opposition within the systems to come up and try something else. If its going to be the hard liners the nationalist that 30 minute just mentioned, we dont know if it doesnt have to be a turn of the header that yes, absolutely. I have grown up in the soviet union in the war and im going to stand with elephant in the room. No one was talking about this openly about this kind of people not being happy with the government on different levels. Was support about a war and understand it wasnt, wasnt one of the key factors and the self destruction of the soviet union. So i see the risks of the war in the claim to be, to inflict this kind of self destruction in the russian. But its, its in the Russian Society because people at some point, this feeling of the people not being kept, its whats going on in the country. And they cannot fix it on, on the war on politics and so in. But this general feeling of not being kept here is increasing the historian that i mentioned, vladimir caught him, was a says in this article at the collapse of proteins. Regime is a question, not as if, but when can you wager any kind of estimate of what a post protein russian might look like . What direction it can be . Dont know what it is, the so much unknowns and long if you look back at the russian history, every previous rush leader was followed by someone by a very surprise. So no one was expecting. Gorbachev appearing. No one was expecting you to the barrington. No one was expecting to put him appearing so the next one state leader would be someone i would expect who is not expected right now in know the name of the person. It will be someone from the actual establishment i would expect. That would be not someone from the marson from foreign country, but its the name will be surprised. Vendor lena, coming back to the the, the effects on the war. Theres been some rising concern here in germany and elsewhere in the west that i put in with his back to the wall might be more likely to escalate, as you have indicated, possibly including with Tactical Nuclear weapons. Is that a serious risk . You think . I do think its a risk, you know, we cannot be excluded. We cannot say it wont happen. But put in his own way of thinking has so far been very rational in his, you know, considering his, oh well, you and i think it, in that sense, if we could think hes, hes acting rationally its, its unlikely that he will go as far as that certainly, so just one point put him on russian politics, political system, us completely thinking outside of the box. So what me expect from the rest is not always whats happening in russia and put in is a man of the big surprise. A source is open and often make things to which no one expects from him. And we should brace from orn surprises when surprise he did not deliver iraq this week. There was a chance or sholtes is request that putin withdraw the troops from ukraine in a telephone call put in made it very clear that he has no regard to regrets whatsoever about the invasion and would do it. Busy all over again, would you say the chancellor schultz was right to give diplomacy a chance at this moment in time . And where do you think things could go from here . I think so, its right to make these calls. I mean, no surprises in the answer put in gave, obviously, but its important for also a domestic reason for shorts. He has to make clear to the german public that hes trying everything, especially if we expect. And i do expect that we will have to send more heavy weapons at some point. And then being able to say, look, i tried everything, i talked to him, i presented my case and he wouldnt, he wouldnt answer. So it is a very is it is a better position to escalate on in terms of weapons those repeated attacks on ukrainian infrastructure. That blended event, alina mentioned earlier, including most recently on ukraines water supply, indicate that putin is hardly ready to call it quits. We have this report in khaki than other ukranian cities in the east of the country. The russians caused a black house. According to our witness reports. The result widespread power outages, plunging and taya areas and millions of civilians into darkness. Without lights, without heat, without internet, and even without water, as pumps run on electricity. And in europe to like here and leal france, people are trying to prepare for a possible blackout as a result of the Russian Energy war with Energy Saving measures and further safety precautions ahead of the upcoming winter. But energy prices, the climbing to every new dizzying heights, for many consumers and businesses, the situation is becoming increasingly threatening, even without a black house. How well is europe prepared for this winter . And ill put that question straight away to a vendor lina, but im going to broaden it out a bit and ask you how well prepared you think europe is to stay the course also in terms of support for ukraine. If the Russian Energy war on the west does turn things dark and cold, here as wells in ukraine, i think europe is relatively well prepared and we will get to this winter. Let me just start with saying that in germany, ga, Storage Facilities are pretty much full. I mean, much fuller than we expected them to be at this point. The industry, for instance, in germany, other countries shown that they can save quite a lot of energy, much more than they thought individuals. We are all, you know, were all supposed to save energy and we can do, we can do even more. Itll be tough. It will for sure, be tough, but i dont, i dont even see debbie gas fashioning it depends of course, how cold winter will be and thats something we dont know. But lets assume its a, its a normal winter, you know, normal temperatures. We will be ok. It wouldnt be easy if it will be. Ok. Right. I mean, the central question that has arisen also due to this counter offensive, is whether germany will sustain its military support for ukraine. Germany is now under increasing pressure once again to deliver more and heavier weapons to ukraine. But russias ambassador to germany said this week that if anything germany has done way too much. And in fact, he used the term red line to saying that germanys support to date has already crossed a red line. What is he trying to say with that . Is that simply a rhetorical device . Or could it mean that russia is aiming to punish germany with some additional regard north . Yeah, because we dont know if it be any blackouts in germany inflicted from outside. I could not exclude this possibility of such errands and on the german soil, which is the russian ember. So. So using the word for a loan, its germany is now in from a russian part of you is a part of the conflict part of this war on the side of the ukraine as a whole vest on board the whole night in the united states. Because maybe in the united states, in germany, delivering grievance to the ukraine, american able to ukraine to push russia back. So its not the best on war outside of this conflict, and its like war between russia middle crane from the Russian Point of view. Its a war between russia and the rest of the world, of the rest liberal democratic board, united and then a thought, you know, European Union on your quote. In fact, the u. S. Military advisors are said to have played a key strategic role working with ukraine to design this counter offensive. Your let me ask you about something that as a shots said this week, he said he again rejected requests that germany send its martyr and leopard battle tanks and said in fact, german needs for High Performance weapons that it has already sent has been very, very helpful. On the battle field is his defensiveness on this point. Is it really justified or do you think that germany could and should do more right now . I think we could do more and i think chancellor schools could build on what he stated that the weapons we sent really make a difference on the battlefield. So it, there are even more lethal than the ones that are asked for now. The martyrs said, basically, infantry fighting vehicles with small canons mounted on top. Theyre not as little as the punter ho bits a 2000 we already delivered. So i dont see why saying we already sent weapons and, and now were going to go slow. Makes really sense and the, the argument that we were not going to go alone is valid, but it doesnt have to be us going alone. We can take the initiative and bring along nato partners. So, and i think thats what the us also wants in this, in this phase of the war. Thats how i understand the American Ambassador saying its a sovereign decision by germany. Just dont wait for us to make a decision. If you look at per capita contributions to ukraine, germany of course, is more populous than many other european countries. Its also an Industrial Power house. And yet its contributions for significantly short of what a number of other countries have done than to lina. Thats right. I mean, for instance, poland has done much more than germany and, and other countries to the Baltic States. But germany sort of in the middle even considering its size, its strength, its, its population. America, of course, has done and much, much more. So i dont think germany is done so badly and, and one thing germany sent, which is enormously useful and doesnt really get a lot of that isnt not mentioned a lot as iris t, its basically like the israeli dome. And so its, its, its very political doesnt show Missile Defense here. And its something the bonus there kind of because its so pricey, but we sent it to germany, sent it to ukraine. So i think germany sometimes also under playing a little bit how much of it is doing in germany has a huge transformation and the Public Opinion in the last 6 months in terms of v from delivery to the growing to the conflict on. And i would not compared to spending spoke with Baltic States bi polar number of years. They have completely different story of relationships. Historically, poland and Baltic States to russia as germany. But population of Baltic States are not through kind of put sophistic, like in germany, moves and a whole bunch, broad concerns in the society like in germany, both but to susan. And this is a huge factor in the most are going to foreign politics in germany. Nonetheless, there is a lot of concern in this country. I mentioned germany being an Industrial Power house. Well after world war 2, the u. S. Secretary of treasury, who was a hard line anti german proposed to plan that would have seen the complete de industrialization of jeremy, so that it could never wage war again. And that word is now being used here by citizens and media who say that perhaps putin will achieve was what morgan thought didnt. Is that a true risk vend, alina . Ive just written about this for the economist, and its, its more cost, revenge. And its, its not a risk that mr. Morgan towns plan still really completely industrialized germany and he wrote a book, german is our problem, and 1945. That will not happen. But some companies will go under and some companies will go brought a certain in a small scale. The industrialization is a real risk and thats why people are so worried about it. Yeah, because the government doing enough toward that off . Well, theyre trying, i think we havent seen the end of it. Ok. So the measures that have been taken are mostly directed at consumers at the moment, and individual households to shield them from the consequences of this economic warfare. Much more will have to be done for companies and what but, but germany is still in a good position to do this. So im not defeatist. Let me come back to our title, our before we are we and the show. As you remember, you cranes, battlefield gains put in under pressure is our title. Let me ask all of you very briefly. As you look ahead now after this counter offensive, are you more hopeful that the end of this war is in sight . Vladimir . No, not at all the voices fender lena. Sadly, im with love me at that that i think there will be escalation, but i am more hopeful about the strengths of the ukrainian military. Its. Its totally impressive what theyve shown us here and more helpful. I think your crank can sure up more support that way and im very hopeful that something will change it also on russia in the debate about the war. Thank you very much to all of you for being with us today. And thanks to all of you in our audience for tune again, see you soon. Back with ah with in good shape, they trigger allergies or sniff them out. 4 legged companions are good for your health, but they also carry disease. All about the joy. Healing power is responsibilities and potential hazards of owning these very friends. In good shape. 30 minutes on d, w. Oh, were all the good to go beyond the obvious. Where as we take on the world, 8 hours, i do all the fans, were all about. The stories that matter to you, whatever it takes 5 police meant to follow with. Here we are, your is actually on fire. Made for mines with when you work is an architect like go all in or not at all. Women in architecture. Why are they so invisible . To the larger public decided to ask and so women grow up with insufficient models. They cant identify with certain professions about their guiding principles. Message, what is the poetry, the secret of a house, and im home about their motivations. I know texture does so much to you in the real goal of architecture is to create habitat for humans about their struggles and dreams. Your responsibility is hugely have so much to with shattering the Glass Ceiling women in architecture dismiss has to be really, really good. Start september 30th on d, w. Ah ah, this is d, w. News live from berlin. Ukrainian Authorities Say they found mass grades outside the city of is you, which was liberated from Russian Forces 6 days ago. 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