A solution then we have to talk and not send troops back and forth. Also coming up tonight remembering the my dong in ukraine a movement a country and a people still dealing with what happened exactly five years ago and now i didnt immediately understand what was happening suddenly there was an explosion another flight suddenly everything when larry and i was out. To our viewers on p. B. S. In the United States and all around the world welcome we begin the day with what is quickly becoming another rift between europe and the United States what to do with the eight hundred european nationals who were captured fighting for socalled Islamic State in syria or now that the u. S. Is leaving syria President Trump is threatening to release those captured fighters unless europe takes them back and puts them on trial its an old tomato for germany france and the u. K. Take back your extremists or those extremists may come back to haunt you. I asked jihadists on the march in syria these images are from the fall off a fourteen i asked has since been defeated here and across nearly the entire country many fighters sadat and more have been taken prisoner the kurds say hundreds of foreign i as fighters remain in kurdish prisons their wives and children live and comes to Northern Syria europe hasnt yet come up with a clear response over the future of foreign fighters and their families germany says it is now in close contact with its European Partners in particular france and britain. This is naturally saw of course it is true that all german citizens have the right to return to germany including those suspected of having fought for Islamic State they have to face justice here in a german court off the streets on top of this i. R. S. Militant from germany is being held in a Detention Center in syria like others hed like to return home but berlin hasnt said what it intends to do with him german Officials Say that a total of one thousand and fifty german citizens went to fight in syria and iraq since twenty thirteen since then a third have returned home around two hundred are led to do dat foreign minister heikal mass says its difficult to track if prisoners are actually german citizens stuff i. V. Ever if this were the case it would be necessary to check to what extent they were involved in fighting for oh yes which would result in criminal proceedings having to be opened against them. And these people can come to germany only if hes ensures that they can immediately be taken into custody as im going normally be able. To prosecute our rehabilitate the question of how to deal with the returning i as fighters and their families is a major challenge for germany and for other European Countries as well. Lets bring. Our Brussels Bureau chief max hoffman hes on the story for us tonight good evening to you max so we got this ultimatum from the u. S. President has there been a response from the e. U. From the European Union to this tweet the European Union itself is not responsible for this frederica marine a die representative for foreign and Security Policy of the European Union pointed that out again saying this is a question of the legislation of the different Member States what counts here brant is the reaction of the countries of the nations like germany or in this case also legs emberg why do i mention luxembourg because of the foreign minister of luxembourg. Was very pronounced in his criticism today he said that the forum in which donald trump the u. S. President did this was basically unacceptable just with one tweet saying thats not how partners treat each other but in substance its a different story it seems like almost all the Foreign Ministers in brussels on monday acknowledged that the u. S. President does have a point so if they you know agree that hes right about this then why do things or do things seem to be so slow moving i mean are these countries here in Europe Germany france the u. K. Are we seeing these countries dragging their feet. Was for me to judge whether they are dragging their feet we do know though that behind the scenes they have been talking about this they have been the go she aiding with the americans its a very difficult topic of course for the europeans if you think about what happened here for example in two thousand and fifteen in two thousand and sixteen i remember some shows we did back then brant during the attacks in paris and also here in brussels and a lot of bias fighters were involved in those attacks so having come back from syria so there is of course a lot of fear in europe that this might happen again and the best place believe for these people just from the feeling that you have here in europe is of course when theyre far away in a prison the second best option is if theyre in a prison somewhere in a member state of the third best option so the worst option in this case is when when theyre free. So theyve been talking about this behind the scenes apparently for the u. S. President this was not fast enough but i can tell you that the europeans would have liked to keep it behind the scenes you know max weve heard tonight from one of our correspondents that the big problem here is that although you have these eight hundred european nationals in detention in syria its not clear that there is enough evidence to charge them with a crime once theyre back in their home country i mean is that really the stumbling block here youve got people in Police Custody in syria once they get back to germany or france they may go scot free. Theres a precedent for this if you look at guantanamo for example Guantanamo Bay so the high security prison outside the borders of the United States where many people were taken from afghanistan after nine eleven many of them were dictated but they were never really condemned and yet they were kept there because it is so hard in a war and with all the chaos and without any authorities in a situation like that to afterwards actually prove something thats why you had war tribunals afterwards that took decades for example the war in yugoslavia its just very very difficult and that of course plays into what i said earlier the risk is if you take these people back even if theyre if they did horrible things you might not have the evidence to prove that indeed you do not even have the evidence in some cases to say these are not germans or these are germans its just a very chaotic situation you have to always keep that in mind these people dont come with little cards with pictures its hard to imagine in the world where we live where it seems like every part of our life is photographed and you always have evidence for something with surveillance cameras all over the place but of course syria is a much different reality in mens before we run out of time you mentioned one ton of wind in the facility there i mean which you know was put up after the nine eleven attacks in the United States is there a feeling in your cross europe that youve got the u. S. President basically tweeting to his european allies and telling them do as i say not as we have done. No i dont think he had that in mind when he tweeted it this is just a narrative hes been doing he doesnt care about slow processes i think thats safe to say he doesnt care about the poem a c i think thats also safe to say he believes in something and then he goes for a very straight forward burning some bridges hes done that in the past and thats whats really being being hard on the u. S. You Transatlantic Relationship the relationship to trump and his government because brant today and also tomorrow on tuesday we have the speaker of the house here for example not in palosi shes in brussels and you can tell from the conversations she setting here that this is a much different relation then the child has with european politicians yeah thats a very good point to make max max hopping on the story for us tonight in brussels thank you. Chinas Foreign Ministry has accused us Vice President my pants of being a hypocrite and acting like a bully sharp criticism that came after comments that the Vice President has been making right here in europe over the weekend at the Munich Security Conference pence warned americas european allies to steer clear of chinese tech giants such as who way he said using chinese equipment could Compromise National Security especially when it comes to rolling out new five g. Networks. Under president translator shipped the United States has also made it clear that china must address the longstanding issues of intellectual property theft force Technology Transfer and other structural issues in china that have placed a burden on our economy and on economies around the world my next guest tonight says european leaders are not interested in finding solutions as long as they have donald trump to blame in his recent book the end of europe dictators demagogues and the coming dark age he lays out how most of those problems existed long before anyone in europe had even entertain the notion of a u. S. President dollar tropp James Kirchick is an author hes a journalist and currently a visiting fellow at the Brookings Institution in washington d. C. He joins me from the u. S. Capitol tonight james is going to have you back on the program id like to you to ask you if you think that the Munich Security Conference if it helps us european relations but first take a look at what happened or maybe what didnt happen when Vice President pence delivered greetings to the people in munich at the conference from President Donald Trump take a look i bring greetings from the forty fifth president of the United States of america President Donald Trump. You know that was the very awkward silence that he was expecting applause there was no applause when you look at that now let me pose the question did the conference did it help Transatlantic Relations well i wasnt there but everything im reading indicates that it didnt. And that donald trump is a very easy feat here to hate particularly in europe. So i think its mind my pants the Vice President should know that by now and as i understand it he mentioned Donald Trumps names at least dozens of times theres a very flattering speech to donald trump i think he should have maybe try to top more to his audience in europe as opposed to the audience of one back here in washington which is what he seat would have been doing today both sides are to blame here i think its a little petty frankly for the europeans to basically sit on their hands for an entire speech you know my Vice President the United States its the same time that they might hence here should have known better than to give such a sort of thawing presentation about it about the president you wrote a piece that appeared in the Washington Post last week ahead of the Munich Security Conference and in that piece you write as long as trouble remains in the white house expect most european thought leaders to continue using him as an excuse to avoid contending with the continents serious systemic and structural problems rather than confront these difficult truths most europeans prefer to pretend that the president of the United States is their greatest challenge and nowhere is this flight from reality more apparent than germany where do you see germany running away from its problems by running toward strong. Well certainly on the issue of i mean lets look at the major problems that germany has is trumpet the need trying to ministration has to germany we look at nato spending germany is spending one point two one point three percent far short of the two percent that its required to by its own agreements to spend its the richest country in europe a concert me afford to do this so trump is right about that he might not express it in the way that i like it you know in terms of berating them constantly but germany is not playing its not really you know throwing its weight around as it should on the issue of north stream too this is a fundamental betrayal of germanys own allies in Eastern Europe which are fellow e. U. And nato members there throwing them under the bus in order to you know extend economic relations with an adversary russia theres no excuse for north stream to no matter how many times the German Government tries to make excuses for it. And so these are some really crucial yeah sorry about that we have a little delay there in the audience you were also wrote in im not going to quote you here as well j. B. You said that berlin has the gall to complain about trumps hasty retreat from syria despite not having committed a single soldier to the mission but you know thats a really thats about as by marians you can be right either you fight or youre not part of the fight i mean do you really see it that black and white. Well you know what fine if germany doesnt want to contribute to the Syrian Mission thats fine they therefore dont have a right to complain about United States play out you know france is contributing the ukase contributing lots of other smaller countries are contributing why isnt germany contributing it into a miracle she made this point again over the weekend criticizing the United States for leading syria i mean you know germany should put up or shut up rightly. Are there european leaders who are in your opinion who are not using the trump excuse well i mention one in my column in the norwegian foreign minister who didnt even mention i saw our speak at a Conference Last Week or the week before munich you know really didnt mention the present the United States he talked about the fundamentals of the Transatlantic Relationship which i think if you put the president and his rhetoric in his tweets to one side are still you know interests in values that unite the United States in europe and i think a lot of leaders would prefer to spend all their time you know railing about donald trump and how obnoxious e. Is and how you know annoying his tweets and his rhetoric can be and theyre pretending as if hes the be all end all of the entire relationship with the United States and i think thats just ridiculous its an easy copout. Author and journalist James Kirchick joining us tonight from washington we know that you are traveling james and we appreciate you taking the time to talk with us tonight thank you. Well it has been five years since the hopes of many ukrainians were dashed in deadly violence today in kenya people remembered the events at the mind on a service was held for the more than one hundred People Killed when mass demonstrations turned violent in february two thousand and fourteen thousands had camped out for months in the capital to protest the then president s decision to scrap it the old that would have moved the country closer to the European Union the protest was crushed when Security Forces moved in to clear the demonstrators. Were w. s Nick Connelly is our correspondents in kiev he met up with a woman a young woman who was wounded in the mind on protests. Scenes of chaos as Government Forces moved into its mind on square trying to force protesters to leave the spot where they had been camping out for more than two months. Among them was sixteen year old victoria roman chook her parents thought she was hundreds of kilometers away at art college instead shed become a regular at the protests on the mind on on the day police attempted to clear the Square Victoria and her friends were out in the streets in front of their makeshift headquarters. And now now i didnt immediately understand what was happening suddenly there was an explosion another flight suddenly everything went blurry and i was out. An improvised grenade covered in scrap metal and shards of pottery had exploded at her feet victoria suffered more than fifty flesh rooms but she couldnt go to hospital because police were arresting for testers in the wards. Instead she ended up in an improvised Field Hospital in the smaller street the parents still had no idea she was in q let alone ended that is until ukrainian t. V. Crew a bit. Here below much to my face was covered in bandages so that no one would recognise me but one of my mums friends recognised this birthmark on my neck in the t. V. Report thats how our parents found out. Meanwhile tensions were increasing further as protesters began a counteroffensive drawing of a closer to the government District Police change their tactics and live ammunition came into play. Casualty numbers were rising fast and soon dozens of protesters were being killed every day among them was all except the copying of footage before all the shooting got underway he came up to me one morning and put his arms around me and said go home you dont have to be here. Im going to put that it. Was by the end of the week more than one hundred people had lost their lives images like these. Went around the world prison in a coachs position become untenable within days he was gone to russia. Five years on from the might does victoria still think the protests had a last impact on the country. I see all the changes these are changes we really need this country is finally being built yes maybe not as fast as we had hoped or expected but its happening many even form of protest to say it was all in vain two months protesting and they thought theyd wake up in a new european country with better wages thats not how life works. Or more this now im joined at the big table by gustaf gristle whos a senior fellow at the European Council on Foreign Relations here in berlin his focus is on Eastern Europe and defense policy studies good to have you back on the phone or in that report we see this young protester who says that she still thinks that the mud on protests were worth it. Were they worth it i mean did did you crane become closer to europe in the. I think of earthy progress we dont see the end of the final product future of of ukraine that is the ukraine of state now which is still very transitional i mean there have been progress. Being shifts in the country you have a different mood to different generations. Ukraine at some places before twenty fourteen you thought you were to receive the soviet union the mindset of it was still very soviet thats has completely changed the problem is that is still. Still highly dysfunctional some old habits especially in the mystics your sect you have on and reform sports that still do trouble. What about the consequences of what happened there at the my done we have. The russian presence in Eastern Ukraine we have the loss of crimea. Yes. But on the other hand the war the aggression that the country faced sort of put people together. What makes a ukrainian that was a very fuzzy concept i dont say that it was cause for complete is split between pro western and for russian people because very few people had actually concepts about europe with us europe mean and what does russia read through the war actually these concepts got on the table of these concepts are debated in ukraine because people sometimes would be either sorry league city or say ok here it is rule of law and heres this putins thats buttoned up but this metaphor sort of meant to gether and ukrainians find their own place its so youre saying that the definition of what it means to be ukrainian that definition was crafted more by the events that we saw five years ago yes and what does it mean to be a ukrainian today how is it different today than it was five years ago. Should have d d d defining moment for ukrainians honestly what what makes their different tools are the Eastern European people is is a very sad if selfconsciousness and self to finish in sometimes very strange ways but thats what makes them are my property my state. And and my freedoms and to have to fend of this. One has to remember ukraine ukraines last struggle Armed Struggle for independence was a after the the first world war. All internet so its very rather sort of that was german equip the Russian Occupation the soviet occupation the German Occupation then stalins occupation so that falls under the carpet now again sort of the countries put on the table and yet entity the history is put on the table and reaming gald world starts when you say that this process. Beginning my done this process is it over but were looking at a permanent loss of crimea are we looking at a permanent presence of russia in Eastern Ukraine you know there are villages where people live every day with the sense in the threat of being invaded by russia. The threats will go away. Di dio corp will last probably very long once the end state of that is is in the crystal ball the baltic countries need very long time for independence they got it finally but it takes some time. Who is calling the shots more in this game of history if you will is it putin or is the poor shrink. Its the ukrainians i dont know how long poroshenko last putting will definitely last for some time but the thing is by by invading trunnion invading the dumbass putin has lost the rest of the ukrainians resisted thirty eight Million People and people in and he lost the industrial heart of ukraine he lost he lost all series in sort of the hearts and mind games a lot of other Eastern Europeans who were more sympathetic like in belarus or like in central easel like in kazakhstan their people versus of more custom to author a chair and rule and didnt think russia was all old at bath some lead they start to pivot their way in belarus they dont know where to pivot because you know crashing from calm pivot to europe but he still tries to sit if now find more freedom of action than he would have ever done without this itll be fascinating to see where we are in another five years school stuff wrestle with the European Council of Foreign Relations stuff as always we appreciate it thank you thank you very much. Well the day is nearly done but the conversation continues online youll find this and d. W. Dot com on twitter were at news or you can follow me at brant goth t. V. And if we get to use that hash tag the day and remember whatever happens between now and then tomorrow is another day were going to leave you now with these pictures from venice where the citys famous annual carnival season got underway with a can now parade over the weekend its enjoy. The foley. Place. Hungry for. More beats mobs and sets its sights on the whole police. Like hamas is to hide in a relegation worthy performance. Dashed hopes of a man shots have to belly up with a last second equaliser. Sixty minutes just told. Whats coming up on the bonus play youll have plenty to talk about here on. The monitors legal. Every weekend here. It. Comes to the new. Channel. A good line of stewards. With the exclusive. Must see concerning part. Should be curious minds. Do it yourself networkers. So subscribers dont miss out. 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