Domestic Intelligence Agency was ousted from office on tuesday after a damaging quarrel within the coalition over his reaction to recent far right attacks on immigrants in the eastern city of candidates so where does the small bling lead chancellor merkel and what kind of leadership can she deliver for germany and for europe so a question here on quadriga this week is merkels government my old conflict and ensconce that question im joined in the studio by three astute observers and analysts of all things german beginning with a living and author and Senior Editor of the berlin based daily death charges speaker martin says that by firing one skilled masson Angela Merkel has saved her Coalition Government but the price is that she lost the respect of many voters also with us is andreas klute editor in chief of hundreds of black lowball contrasts argues that germany socalled grand coalition was never. Meant to be and hes doomed to failure just when he should be tackling huge tasks and a very warm welcome to the dont you feel its only in. The head of g. W. Domestic politics units nina believes that angle americas biggest problem is her own interior minister one big step towards restoring voters trust in politics she says would be to replace horses of. Course were going to be talking a lot about horse a hole for in the half an hour to come also but not to let me id like to begin by talking about one scale in the head of germanys domestic spy agency you described it this week as an incompetent busybody and said he had to go what did he get so badly wrong why did he have to go and why is it so important very strong opinion about him because the interview he gave after an incident in cannes an eastern town of chemists romanced all that had happened right wing mopp a mixture between the population and went to the street and there was a video that showed that he had dark skinned man was chased by by would seem to be an angry crowd and he went on and gave a boulevard newspaper interview saying that he questions the authenticity of this video put that in doubt even came close to conspiracy theories about wrong information and targeted misinformations and all these things and that few of the right wing populist rhetoric so much that this interview was just a capital mistake i would not put into dealt that much his his. His capacity as being a head of the Domestic Intelligence service but this interview alone in this situation this is this is the most sensitive topic the german politics if the influx of refugees are fueling criminal rates and things like that this is so very very sensitive that was a couple mistaken yes to be punished for that nina he hasnt just. He was being punished he has hes been. Going to be cautious here hes being hes in the process im being very cautious now hes in the process of being removed from office but hes being hes being booted up stairs effectively as they say hes going to have to another job better paid tolstoys a whole foods interior ministry and that is no. To your children over the breakfast table its another threat to the coalition is that it is absolutely hostile you havent made it very very clear that he was not going to let go of months and that he trusts him that he wants him to do what closely with him and he make a very clear to chancellor Angela Merkel say in the end the only option for her was to give both sides those who demanded that he be removed from his post top spy chief spy chief and. The interior minister who said i am going to stick with this nie and she needed to give both sides something we ended up with a foul compromise that is really hard to explain to voters children to people anywhere in the world and twitter was full of means of saying like you know next time hell he doesnt buy a ticket on the train hell get a free take it for the month so you know hell. Be officials said that you know his is on his way to becoming the United Nations secretary general. I have no what they say he was not punished would you have words to explain wholesale for i know you into you you interviewed him recently he said it the lives of his career. Is really central to german politics at this point in time maybe for not much longer but at this point in time absolutely central tell us about what were your impressions when you were face to face but i went to the Party Convention in munich and. I asked him. Mr z. Who is the coalition of threats and he just said it isnt believe me will stick together he was so convinced that he was going to get his way as he always has been can been stopped he is he is right and i think that is essentially is hosty of us problem for you is he did have faced feeling for what the people want and sometimes that he rist really unpopular position it was a populist before we started talking so obsessive about example but now hes completely lost sight of rational politics he has completely. Gone astray and he is provoking uncle america wherever he can and its high time i believe that but chancellor lets go from i think this wont happen before the very elections of course they dont they are in four weeks time theyre important Regional Elections also fungal americans conservatives as a whole but he is an extremely risky figure and he is behind all the all the conflicts in this current Government Coalition that weve seen in recent months under as you know being im sure you want to chip in is one thing to say go for it sometimes described by by commentators as a grudge politician and it is then suggested that he wont go down with until and until he can take uncle america with it. Its possible i mean several things you already mentioned he is a populist always has been a populist we call this a populist party called the alternative for germany is the populist party but the sea is you has always had that tendency and hosty who for within it has been compared to previous leaders like care france who was of his cows who was also a statesman and knew that there are priorities. For was is very much makes beer tent politics. He is very all over the place and can think small in his. Way and is myopia in other words does not understand that because of this unique relationship between cd you and c. Is you which exists nowhere else in the world that he does not just make politics for the beer tent next october but that he affects brussels the eurozone the the European Union the western alliance to some extent geopolitics involving china that all of that he puts at risk because of big agenda by the way it risks theres two things eating him i think theres a long grudge match with uncle merkel whom he calls do the formal you there theyre pretending to be buddies which makes it even worse to if youre watching this in term and a bitter long fight that he has with the Prime Minister of the very in his own party theyre all just waiting for each other to drop so hes i think hes very close to the end of his career he knows it and its possible that what you just said i cant be ruled out that he just wants to take a few people down with him but i dont think that we should not focused too heavily on horses he didnt shout stop the fight the fight was started then by the s. P. D. Who said mohsen has to leave. A hole for many people his party and the seaview the other part of the conservative party told yeah he made a mistake but he is a good men so he has not to be fired so by backing mosnes if it was it was not known he was i mean i think most of the party was standing behind him and i still dont know where their medical stands in this case if he just said i wanted to keep my coalition together or what they see clearly things he has to go so thats an open question nobody knows me an unholy mess for the time being in some commentators are asking you know or a saying in years gone by im going to mecca wouldnt of let this happen shes too skillful a politician should we do assume that she has to. Use it to weakened the. Hands a tight that the tied behind her back and it was i mean were talking about a fault come from us that really agree with that but what was the alternative either masa stays in power then the s. P. D. Must have left the coalition we would have new elections hes been fired without scruple then the sea is who and many lots of the c. D. U. Would be very very disappointed and the right wing populists of the if the we just talk about new monitors story who dares to speak against the chance to get out of it and so it seems that this fall compromise to fire him and promote him in the same way and then in a sense and seems to be the only solution that was left was typical merkel solution i mean it was just so typical of her because she always feuds with the with the threats of our government and then she acts accordingly can i just Say Something that i observed at the Party Conference in munich on saturday i thought it was extremely interesting how they see as you officials stood on stage for the first time publicly attacking the a. F. P. Who all their real competitors like you said but behind the scenes everybody you talked to only focused on the s. P. D. And they all blamed the current conflict on the s. P. D. And this just goes to show that this coalition is extremely weak and its full of mistrust and the big problem is that gemini is in a position where it really just cant afford to have these people questioning each of those all the time i mean lets just remember the last conflict is not so long ago it was only in july again it was a question where the s p d. It looked really weak said this time around i think the s. P. D. Couldnt afford to look weak if they want to keep some of the votes is that they have to make a big stand this time around because last time they looked like they had no say in the. Coalition it soul and this is a very bad sign for germany because its clearly paralyzed. And various we had first of all there was a conflict in the coalition almost immediately after existence was installed about whether islam belongs to germany then we had. A huge fines in the coalition about whether refugees should be turned back on the southern border jim the southern border now weve been talking this hold for eleven twelve days of mass and his views on far right violence is there a Common Thread. The Common Thread is very simple things three parties never wanted to be together again. After the election last autumn another coalition was tried and failed and then the president and other people of the german elite put enormous pressure under the very german concept of stability to do it again even though they didnt want to and they dont trust each other and they they know and i think a lot of people in there including them know that this sort of the austrians did it for decades these grand coalitions which allowed people to get alienated from this kind of political backroom deals when the big issues are untaught tibet and drifted to the wings and now the populists in austria are in the government and so. So a lot of their theyre just creating one little crisis after another because they dont trust each other you have to remember that all these presses you mention are either rhetorical but theyre small crises for instance the one about turning back migrants when you actually counted as some people did how many migrants would be affected it think it was five day these are semantics either to semantic this is when people want to argue and want to be told himself that theyre right this is what they do at the time when the real issues because you have to remember that paris london because of bricks of paris big where mccrone has for over a year been way. Waiting for germany to back him up on big reforms of the eurozone for example theres no answer because theyre busy busy with this stuff and thats the disaster this stability that is the reason why theyre together but this is not stable its in stable and there are actually better alternatives and there are things that merkel she should have fired the whole fed this summer the first time around when. They should have let the city as you walk out and she should have let the coalition tumble and then we would be in a better place today ok thanks for the months before we. Get well get some images yeah there was a there was decades ago a british Prime Minister who once told the british people youve never had it so good and it was a phrase that stuck out repeated time and time again in a row ironically given some of the doom and gloom that weve just been talking about the same could be said about todays germany theyve never had it so good and dresses noting the question is how. The economys in good shape unemployment is low many germans are doing better than ever. But the squabbling in the Coalition Government has put a lot of people off. They argue about the mystic security and asylum policy and Social Security and a lot of voters are tired of. Many of them to their frustrations by taking to the streets crowds of angry citizens have demonstrated in cam thats a curtain against the chancellors immigration policy and what they consider the dangers of islam. Activists occupied part of forest in western germany to protest plans to expand a large coal mine nearby they also claim that the governments environment policies are contradictory why are so many germans so angry right now. Why so many germans so angry right now i mean they were very different kinds of protesters that are. Focus on the far right the. Threat that comes from the far right why has so many people vote angry citizens i think there are just lots of people are dissatisfied with the way politicians seem to be placing the focus in public on issues like pop power politics and there is no secrecy details of who stays in which Office Rather than focusing on on the real problems i mean theyre all there are parts in this country where not everything is looking good the figures may look good but the bridges are crumbling people dont get access to to child care you know there are lots of essential topics that just dont seem to get through anymore to the people in power to the government in particular and the s. P. D. Has been trying to sell their projects that they are working on but its clearly failing so people in the streets of just saying look and what about me why do we talk about those five people on the border every day all day long when really you know i need to have access to a doctor in this room or parts of germany where i live and i just dont were giving three to two short answers one is a lack of leadership second is a lack of representation of leadership i mean merkel is really really good in solving problems yes not so good and giving speeches explaining herself she is no obama like she doesnt give tweets like like trump does hes not as charismatic as michael in france and so on so she is a Problem Solver and not a leader and she is i just want to clarify that point no she was she is a Problem Solver i would still say. Yes the second is lack of representation when one point two million refugees were pouring in from paul in the two thousand and fifteen basically all parties that were in government supported her policy but twenty twenty five percent of the population just do. Few represented by the public so so this change the last election on the a if the the wiping papas party gained some seats and i think thirteen percent of the votes so now they have a kind of representation of still going to the streets and more people are going to the streets in east germany because thats what their history is going to the streets might change anything and without votes going should lose a headache i may be very familiar to very Many International viewers hes now the speaker of the German Parliament the understand hes come out and said hes hes concerned that more and more people in germany are questioning whether democracy is the right model under us. I. Doubt the debts that were in that sort of why mark two point zero phase in eastern germany yes if you add the left party the post the x. Communist party and the alternative for germany together you get in some places to almost half and that is deeply worrisome but i dont think in west germany were anywhere near that but you know if you say what could make it better or whats whats to blame for that trend if it exists then i think it is these these grand coalitions again and again and this sort of centrist centrist party is getting much together and stifling real debate on big things and just keep themselves busy with little the laws and some you know technicalities of rent rises in your area when bigs things are at stake in a world of trump and putin and so forth and that that alienates people and drives them they used to be nonvoters and now did they go to the fringes and if you wait a little bit longer than you get something that you have in austria now or you get something where people there was a poll i saw where people did yearn the the ratio especially in the alternative for germany but even in the general population is going up for people who yearn urine for a strong leader and the german word in the poll used was few. And the public is to i would say is fed up with but these symbolic civil wars that they have in the government because these they they you cant see the real results i mean there is a government government governing on the very same day that the whole mohsen scandal erupted we have the five point five billion investment in preschool things we have the high command of the secretary of foreign secretary is traveling abroad we have the e. U. Summit the chance it was attending we have all of the finance ministers so people are working and the Coalition Contract still has some good on the security of the pensions. Getting rid of coal burning and all these things that nobody talks about because we have these symbolic civil wars that leads to nothing and so i think people are really fed up with that business as usual in a positive sense there could be business as usual there is business going on ok weve been talking a lot about german politics about domestic politics but what about the rest of the world and europe especially theres a real sense that this is a real time of crisis gathering the time of tectonic change and while all this is going on germany is locked in navel gazing. America no longer seems willing to play a leading role in International RelationsPresident Trump wants to press ahead with making various individual deals and has pulled the us out of several multilateral agreements hes launched trade wars against china and canada. The European Union is threatened by brigs and the rise of right wing populist party. Russia continues to challenge the west in syria in ukraine and elsewhere. And china is actively pursuing its Foreign Policy goals. But the German Government seems focused only on itself does germany still have a role to play in International Politics. And still have a role to play in International Politics of course yes but frank germanys president has been quoted involves a couple of days as saying hes astonished how closely people around europe have been following domestic developments in germany in whole concern they. Would you think they see when they look at germany at this point in time address this year what i see what im concerned is that there are these big issues that are actually not being debated. When in fact germans think that ok theyre theyre doing a list of Little Things that theyre being kept there theyre keeping themselves busy they theyre realizing that because of this Dysfunctional Coalition and which weakens the chancellor that there is no leadership on germany which happens to be the largest country in the European Union which means that effectively euro zone reforms genuine migration reforms are stalled in some debates that could determine the future of europe and germany such as america withdrawing from the continent forcing the europeans and the germans to have to figure out a solution for their own defense are not being head. This is inside some influential german paper this week came out and said nothing like a courageous Foreign Policy agenda in sight is that is not accurate assessment or is it is their business as usual going on as well in the Foreign Policy field no i mean european policy is very very difficult right now its overloaded by the refugee crisis weve still unsolved crisis reform of the brussels system and so on so its very very complicated so i doubt that we will see in the near future any German Government who just comes out and finds the solution for all the european problems were facing it is very very complicated so i think it could be more but it could not be the grand i mean the grand posture that you have the european policy. I think for example refugees a lot happened a lot has happened the influx from the balkan route through turkey and so its not stopped but its really still really going down refugees from africa i think the number is in the first half of this year forty thousand this is much less than the years before so not trips to african countries putting out investment plans and so on and so on you dont see the results immediately but it seems to be kind of coherent policy to stop this crisis to evolve again. Nina. A final say everybody outside germany always wants to know is im still in the driving seat and does she have a road map or a route map shes extremely weekend and like i say shes being taken hostage by the bavarians to a certain extent. Theres next couple of weeks are going to not leave much for a thing room because of course you she cant risk the conservatives in bavaria to lose even more and if we look at next year whats going to happen there i mean shes not going to come out stronger if they european elections. Provide the results that we are predicting at the moment you know theyll be strong and the e. U. Forces in the government has always said that she believes germany has its place in europe and that her Foreign Policy or you know how governments fault Foreign Policy will always be influenced by how europe behaves and if youve got. Forces in europe as well as in germany and its going to get even tougher in the us a final word to the question that we have today on quadriga merkels government mired in conflict is admired in conflict morning or is mired in sinking deeper in there wont come out till theres a collapse and a minority government for a new Election Results like you will for him to be here on quadriga today i hope we can look plenty open for all to come back next week ill be visiting. Come. Come. Come come come come come come. Come come. Come come from. The book. God saw and take football personally. My grandma so off to a good stocks. In three weeks the briefings are running smooth movement doesnt mean all the time the monogamist the banks law books the. Gold oh. The colbys in germany tomorrow german. Polish going to come with him online on the mobile and free the shah from the w. P. Learning course nikos speak. German. The most colorful. The loveliest. The most traditional find it all at any time. Check in with a web special. Take a tour of germany state by state on d w dot com. Heres whats coming up on the go to sleep so Much Movement at the from the get this. Plentiful such fun. Its fun to take a look at what all that means for the type of clothes. Im going to sleep every weekend here on t. W. Frank food. International gateway to the best connections also in road and rail. Located in the heart of europe you are connected to the whole world. Experience outstanding shopping and dining offers and try our services. Be our guest at Frankfurt Airport city managed by from a bought. This is the w. News coming to you live from rome. 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