Louder thats because the e. U. Withdrawal pact passed after the bracks referendum mandates that the country leave the union on march twenty ninth but with mays deal now dad what lies ahead for britain and for europe. No way out of the chaos were going to try to chart some possible ways out of the chaos today with our guests andreas clues editor in chief of on most blot today says in the Current Situation a second referendum is the least bad option alan posner is a british german author writing for the german newspaper develop he says theres only one way out of this mess Parliament Must tell the people the truth membership is the best deal britain half. And Alex Forrest Whiting is the w. Reporter and former west minister Political Correspondent she says its now up to par with. And to find a consensus that will prevent no deal brecks. The data all of us to our viewers around the world alex if i could start with you you say its all about consensus right now but how can bridge and european politicians come up with a deep deal that theyve been able to find over the last two years in just a few weeks its a very good question and everything is on the table particularly in the British Parliament the e. U. Has made it very clear heads of government members of the e. U. Have made it clear that it has to come down at the moment to the u. K. What is the u. K. One what is British Parliament want and the honest answer to that is it does not know there are all these different factions within parliament some want a hot but even a no deal others want a second referendum much softer at the moment in my mind it seems that parliament that the m. P. s they need to come together and they need to have more of a say on where this is going because at the moment the government has failed ok the government has failed in britain but alan hasnt the European Union made it difficult for britain in fact to find a way out hasnt it failed to show solidarity to show solidarity with british lawmakers in finding consensus no with what british lawmakers i mean the e. U. Negotiated in good faith with the British Government they it was the British Government that wanted this deal which included a Customs Union to prevent border in Northern Ireland the e. U. Gave them that twenty seven e. U. Governments agreed on the European Parliament signed off on an individual you know theyre sorry to say unusual you know im going to use you a very hard one then the government you know which you as you is is negotiating on behalf of parliament and of behalf of the british people the vote for obama. Cant honestly excuse the European Union of being you know hard hearted not giving them a break if they think this is the break we want they might have got it but this was the deal that reason maybe one did not you know i really think ive always been may may have wanted but no one else in her party not enough of majority to get this deal done well that problem isnt it you know i really think ive always been someone that lets accommodate the british as much as we can lets not go down the path of shodan freude of of punishing britain its not do that but ive come to the position where ive said look enough is enough you get your act together please brittle kay that may. Agree totally with what you said about that about palin and im not saying ok thats all becomes germane come monday andreas threesome is going to present her plan b. Does she have a magical Silver Bullet in her purse thats going to kill all the demons that have kept the breaks of possible so far what is her plan b. Going to look like she cannot possibly have a magic plan b. Because she would have pulled it out already i mean weve just been wasting so much time just the last couple of months its astonishing weve got until march twenty ninth but you know if we look ahead what are the options theres one thing that i think we in this round could agree on that there are all the options are bad so the what were talking about is what is the least bad option and i think thats for the brits and i think the e. U. Twenty seven can do a little bit of something at a moment like this when you say this is historic theres a menacing china theres an aggressive russia theres an unpredictable america we need you know we need to sort this out then you say well what can we do or not maybe we can return to what gesture the e. U. Twenty seven could make now but of the options for the brits i think the referendum is a bad option because we dont even know what the question would be. Is it deal or no deal existed or remain is a bad deal we just rejected vs no deal or is a bad deal versus remain and you cannot put that on a referendum must be very difficult. And thats i think where the e. U. Twenty seven will come and we need a little bit of movement to come up with the new questions so that the brits can vote with dignity and say we got something it can be cosmetic but we got something and now well stand there are two things here one with regards to the referendum at the moment there is still no big surge for a referendum particular within parliament and that is primarily because the main opposition the labor party on to Jeremy Corbyn they do he does not want a second referendum he wants a general election he tried to push for that. Wednesday night when they had this no confidence vote in the government he failed so at the moment hes not getting his general election but hes also not moving towards a second referendum so at the moment i dont even think thats particularly on the table and if it was on the table theyd still have to push for the u. K. Would have to ask the e. U. For an extension to article fifty of the lisbon treaty. In other words in order to standing law delaying brix it which is what they would do so they would have to ask about and. You would have to agree theres a lot of problems with the second rough run there it will be getting back to that during the course of the second point to make out to make clear is that with this Withdrawal Agreement between the e. U. In the u. K. To resume i thrashed out over two years agreed in november with her so far the e. U. Brussels has said they cannot reopen that five hundred eighty five document and the only thing that can possibly change is the political declaration that goes along side that that is possibly where things could be inserted but the problem theresa may has is that her hard line is those bricks it is in her own party and those unionist m. P. s. The niland they want legal assurances they want it to be legally binding what they want which is particularly over this whole border between Northern Ireland and the republic of ireland they want that the situation that they want it to be legally binding that there will be no hard border right at any point border but also its what the wants to do with that which is to basically put the whole of the u. K. Including Northern Ireland into a Customs Union for a certain amount of time if it kicks in it is quite complicated but that is what their own were in packaging all yes but so this is the problem at the moment that the so far the e. U. Is saying that this Withdrawal Agreement that document cannot be reopened so will the e. U. Change and all that red zone is open agreed to by twenty seven Member States after her crushing defeat may have a lot to say to the nation lets take a listen to what she had to say. Tonights quote tells us nothing about what it does support nothing about how. You know thing about how even if it intends to all of the decision the british people took in a Referendum Parliament decided to hold its own people particularly you citizens whove made their home here and u. K. Citizens living in the e. U. Is a clarity on these questions. Alex if there is anyone responsible for a lack of clarity right now it has to be to reason why is she still having a government thats incapable of getting the first order of Business Done because her government as is the rest of parliament there it is completely divided even a cabinet those at the very top of government cannot decide what route they want to follow you have bracks it is in that cabinet who would probably be ok if there was a no deal bracks it and you have all those who voted for made a very concerned about it i want had to move towards a softer brix it and that is a problem shes been trying to walk a tight rope two years through this and now finally she has got to try and find out which side shes going to come down on because they have decided that they do departments decided they do not like her deal which is this big compromise nobodys happy so she now has to decide who can she who can give her the most support and what do she decides that she now has to push forward and this is the Cross Party Consensus shes now looking for. You know when we when we think about this why was there not the search for cross party concensus months ago or a year ago because there has been i mean as i like to say that the brits have been incompetent and the e. U. Twenty seven have been intransigent the brits have been incompetent and its made themselves a laughingstock you. At home and abroad unfortunately and so theres been a lack of good leadership and theresa mame deserves some blame i think David Cameron started with that and many others including in particular Jeremy Coburn corben who does stains any intellectual curiosity about anything who is a lifelong euro skeptic and leads a party whose base is actually quite europhiles so thats another move me has and then you have all the other parties including someone from Northern Ireland and the scots are probably going to pack their bags now for a second referendum and then they started their problem yeah it in a sense that is mike microscope a microcosm of europe today i mean this is not the only place where we cant agree on anything anymore and so i wouldnt put blamed just to resume a she didnt want brett sit by the way originally you know she was obviously has this mess i dont understand personally i if i were her id be out of there because i dont want this anymore so im not sure psychologically why she has to do this incredible resilience i mean it is remarkable alan how long this may have to get something through how long she have before she can. Moves into a zone where she becomes no longer politically viable. She has a strong as you want to far as i can see because theres no one really challenging her and no one believes that anyone else could unite the conservative party you know if mr rogge reis mohawks her. To get the leadership of Boris Johnson god forbid he wouldnt be able to unite the party its you know the party is in a mess but the real villain actually is jeremy call because the fact is that labor basically. Could support mrs mays deal they get what they want a Customs Union a soft breaks it and the only reason he didnt do it in part because he hoped to be able to topple him which he then tried and failed to do i would think actually the way forward would be for germany coburn who is you describe perfectly to jump over a shadow was a german say to bite the bullet and say ok were going to support this deal next time that would be advising the conservative party because half of the podgy would vote with him they get the deal through you have a divided party maybe even really splitting would be great for labor i dont understand why the guy doesnt do it and if these are the new elections well well first of all with that i mean to reason why is reaching out to the other lead is within parliament so the other parliamentary need us and the only one so far who has said that he will not take part in any talks with Jeremy Clarksons overdose and he is saying that that is because she has not ruled out a no deal bricks it catastrophic must be ruled out thats nonsense saying out of course hes saying that because she cant rule it out because she won this vote of no confidence with the help of these unionist m. P. s and the m. P. s in Northern Ireland ten do you pay m. P. s prop up the government and those ten m. P. s were the ones who got her over the line so she now says oh im taking no deal off the table there is theres nothing to stop Jeremy Colvin from me. Then triggering another no confidence. Which which could happen it could happen if the other parties supported it and then theres do you piece all those but to say right what if she is not taking that off the table and saying we cant say that well have a node and no deal brett said then were not going to support well support Jeremy Corbyn there is the possibility still that that could be a general election ok lets look fortunately lets just put that out there theres a possibility there could be a general election as a response to where we are right now it would solve im afraid to say i believe nothing because heres a thing that you see in britain and also in the rest of the European Union the party system that you would have a new election for parties that grew out of a system that essentially dates back to the one nine hundred centuries with a little bit thrown on from the Twentieth Century and these new issues are showing up that system in britain and in france where we have the president from a party that didnt even exist a couple of years ago ok and in germany is over to the party system no wrong or reflects the divides in that society and you would get elections where with the first past the post system you elect essentially possibly the same stalemate into that chamber again or something remarkably similar and wed be right back there it would just be stalling with more uncertainty it would solve nothing ok what we are seeing right now is is in britain is a parliament as you pointed out. That is paralyzed by indecision incapable of embracing europe at whatever level and at the same time just isnt able to break free and claim the open road back to two years want its a britain thats lost its political moorings adrift uncertain and divided. You know. The opposition. Is the government so i will see what happens i would like few times im very happy. As a student here in london one big problem for me is what will happen if this country accidentally slips into some kind of a heartbreak said what will happen to me as a European Student here will i have to leave the country the government has it in its power to just quite simply council the whole thing but i suppose this would be politically unacceptable. Ok andres you raise the point that the political system and britain france elsewhere im sure youd think is well its not up to the tasks of the modern political body and all it splits and differences. The referendum was meant to address that in britain and youre among those who think that a second referendum is the way forward now. Isnt though or wouldnt a second referendum be a rejection of all the Democratic Values we hold so dear yes and that you. Have a vote and it has to be respected and implemented isnt that the democratic way. Let me just make this clear i think its an absolutely terrible option the logical process that leads you to any option right now as a you have to decide that all the others are worse if we i think bracks it is a historic disaster i would love to cancel it right now if i could if we did that if they did that that would be undemocratic and it wouldnt fly it would permanently embitter half the country ok so by the same method of elimination you can go down the path now though of the many problems that a second referendum has one is we cannot. Question a binary question director mark receive can only come in when theres a simple by. Question we dont have that again so we have to create one and i think this is where the e. U. Twenty seven has a role and i think theres a for a minute since we happen to be in germany the germans have an interest in this for a lot of reasons they have an interest in being more pro british as they would like keeping britain in more than lets say the french and theres a think tank in munich the evil institute that has laid this out very clearly in a complex click case and the e. U. Twenty seven must make a gesture now and essentially get off their old stick that there can be no cherry picking and i like that the evil institute for instance compares rigid unions based on coercion like the ottomans the soviets the yugoslavian say sooner or later they just break up absolutely. Store so lets us introduce flexibility and let the german chancellor talk to the french and others who are on the side of rigidity and say let us make some exceptions for instance the e. U. Has with switzerland which is not formally part of it all sorts of a package of deals that amount to an exceptional relationship we can create an exceptional relationship and others would want to take it too and that way the e. U. Might survive because if if without that the we might in five or ten or twenty years be talking about the e. U. Just unraveling you have the do you german party putting forward the decks a german. Leaving of the of the use part of his Party Platform alan when you look at this you know all of the various options im shocked personally at at the lack of flexibility that been shown so far by the e. U. Why not give britain a norwegian option the swiss option you can be a part of the European Free trade association you dont have to be a member of the e. U. We have we offered them that and they didnt accept it took switzerland their member of the Schengen Area then a member of that but you know you can go in and out as was enough for you dont have to show your passport britain didnt even accept that when they were in the e. U. So you cant thing. Take the swiss option look at norway norway is within the European Economic area that is they have to accept the free not only goods capital but also the people the basically members of the e. U. Without having a say in it britain would never accept that theres no im that weve been so incredibly flexible were prepared to say go in and have a Free Trade Agreement with us but then they said yeah but what about ireland so we had to come back and say well look what how about staying in the Customs Union and two we can both agree on a Free Trade Agreement to somehow solve the irish problem weve been and weve managed to get twenty seven governments who cant agree on almost anything else to agree on that and now one country comes and says no no no no i dont revel in all that because you inflexible like the ottomans and the russians know we are not the russians never asked to go there just the ottomans never asked anyone weve asked every single government down to croatia down to who have nothing to do with the whole thing to agree to this and they have signed up to a five hundred ninety five page document and now people like Boris Johnson a germy called an incompetent. Come along and start dictating to the rest of europe including the ottomans and russians and what have you and its going to henriques as well one here is here through. What we know that the labor party wanted Jeremy Corbyn they are saying that they want to permanent Customs Union which so far has been ruled out by theresa may for the reasons that weve said before right doesnt want to upset the. Very pro breaks it but that could possibly be the way forward so we could be looking at going towards a softer bricks it if she could if labor will come over and as i said before the moment saying he wont talk to her but if if there is the possibility for that and they look at maybe its sort of norway option so. Annoying often this is ok im going where clauses are the problem with the politicians everythings got a plus one double plus ungood. Plus plus and this is a problem but if there was the possibility to get support for slight use for softer bricks it which then also make sure that Northern Ireland is ok and island as a whole is ok because obviously the e. U. Does not want to in any way make is detrimental to od in the republic of ireland if there is a way that she can get consensus on that then possibly that could be the way that they go ok it looks like theres going to have to be an extension then of the march twenty ninth deadline and that would mean going back to parliament and getting a new law passed through extend article fifty grand and asking asking permission obviously from the e. U. For that with the seeing that there is a reason to extend it there is a reason and this is and this is what you could say the french could say and the spanish could say there is no reason to extend it so thats a come on agree if they cant agree in the ten weeks if Ahmed Khan Khan come up with the deal in ten weeks why should they be able to come up with a deal that is the program by to full in ten weeks time the u. K. Is going to exit the e. U. Its a big concern to many dont right now and we cant forget that when you talk to people looks like a second river and then the something thats emerging is perhaps a viable possibility what do people in britain situation is. So divided and. Even in my own family it is so divided and this is the problem and i know people at the top of the peoples votes of trying to push for the second referendum there they are very clear that it has to come down to labor the front bench changing tack and supporting it before that will even get off the ground recent polls by them say that possibly more than sixty percent of remain im not im not convinced that it is that high as you are still so divided you speak to people they say we just want out why havent we left some people think weve even left already this is the problem ok so and a referendum could actually lead to a stronger leave vote. Then what happens to restart again. Because unlike in germany where the constitution says the people of the sovereign and the parliament does their bidding in great Britain Parliament is sovereign and the original. Was going to the people for a referendum which was nonbinding i think they should but it. Breaks it should have said ok i hear you but look. At the forty eight percent who voted right rect ok lets we have a just a couple minutes of what do you see happening like thats the question like. What you see happening after monday mays coming back with plan b. Under race whats going to happen but we were playing with options for what should happen but what unforeseen what i think will happen is i have to say im incredibly pessimistic. Still see in transit intransigence on the continent and incompetence over there and worse and i think it may come to the worst or a hard. Ok quick answer i think that wasnt i think parliamentarians will come together and they will somehow get the support. Very quickly the next parliament is going to finally live up to it responsibility ok i hope thats true i hope this through thanks so much to all our guests today for being with us and thank you as well for joining us here at quadriga and dont forget theres always more next week here at the International Talk show im brian thomas thanks for being with us. Move. Your. Feet. Welcome aboard. Make yourself comfortable. Please try our inflight food. And our fitness center. Enjoy the spectacular view. Your fellow wishes you a pleasant flight. Liftoff to mars fifteen minutes. How about taking a few risks you could even take a chance on love. Dont expect a happy ending. Its. I was fifteen when i arrived here i slept with six people in a room similar it was hard i was fit. I even got white hairs out. The gym in london which meant not a lot of this gives me a little push maybe two in truck loads of slaves if you want to their story. Its her fighting and reliable information for margaret. We make up oh but we watch as a coughing fit under budget cuts we ought to seven seven percent of. Them want to shape the continents future. To be part of enjoying african youngsters as they share their stories their dreams and their challenges. The seventy seven percent. Platform for africa is charting. Where is home. When your family is scattered across the globe. It is if you didnt listen to the book as a journey back to the roots should get a minimum of. The shots frankly from somalia and live around the world to come want to own it urgent assistance of. Global family starts january twenty third on t. W. Took to. An. Odd. Place. To. Play. This is the w. News. Live from berlin a renewed call for calm in yemen after a u. N. Envoy there comes under gunfire the head of the mission overseeing a cease fire on the harm the Saudi Led Coalition and who the rebels are blaming each other for the attack also on the show. The feud between President Trump and the democrats over the government shutdown