A recent surprise announcement that washington plans to withdraw American Forces from syria left many commentators asking who will step into the breach so our question on quadriga this week is two years of trump what next from the wrecking ball and to discuss that question im joined by three astute observations here in the studio beginning with grace doe bush whos an american freelance journalist and an editor at the business daily hundreds but she says trump has brought out very construe tolerance interesting stuff also with us is Matthew College snake chief europe correspondent with politico he says east trump may be the president Everybody Loves to hate whats harder to acknowledge though is that his impact hasnt been all bad and a warm welcome to developing her nerves valerie has a tram said lanty backgrounds and works for spiegel online and she argues that donald trump is divided not. So only the nation but also the world americas allies no longer regard the u. S. As a reliable partner for interesting comments to begin the show id like to begin with yours grace your son you say that President Trump has brought house americans true colors one of the true colors of the American People im fascinated to find. I think weve had in the last few decades this increasing difficulty in discussing items of importance with each other with discussing issues in a way that is thought for and trump has just exacerbated that to decree that weve not seen in recent history i think that there are a lot of discussions happening right now regarding basic human rights that would have been inexplicable. Even five years ago just an example of one of the human rights youre talking to have that is in contention. Oh my goodness how many can list i mean aside from the right of people to seek asylum in the United States being called into question the backpedaling on rights for l. G. B. T. People. The discussions and the. Not civil wars but the very impassioned discussions happening about Police Brutality and treatment of black and brown people in america all of these things. Theyve been boiling under the surface for a long time and trump has now gotten them to a point where its all coming to the surface and freedom of press absolutely yes. Well no never the last dollar you mentioned that and weve heard were graysons to say to President Trump gives himself an a plus rating for his first two years in office what has he got who might. Well thats thats a hard question. In my opinion he hasnt gotten much right i mean i feel like he has divided the nation so far that really between between americas Trump America and america liberal america is just such a vast ground that i dont really see how people are going to cover that people are going to get back to a point where they can talk to each other way where respectfully they can acknowledge that they have different points of view and thats ok so i feel like he hasnt done much right in sense of that. Im sorry i cant even watch the news here matthew if were going to break. You so the president trying to impart hasnt been. Well i think it depends what you you know measure measure him by. You know certainly in the Foreign Policy sphere if you look at what he set out to do and what hes doing on the economy i think a lot of people look at him and they were against the policies that he campaigned on to begin with and so by that yardstick if you will of course youll be against him and youll say that you know these arent good things but if you look at what he promised during the Campaign Things like pulling out of the paris climate deal things like pulling out of the Iran Nuclear Deal things like pulling out of the middle east which he hasnt really done yet but hes threatened to and is in the process of these are all things that you know that hes doing and this is why you know his supporters elected him to be president so i think its a you know support to differentiate between ones own views of his policies and what he promised to do and he certainly is feeling that i would challenge grace a little bit on this idea that hes you know divided the country more than it was because the country was pretty divided even before he got elected certainly you know obama was somebody who also divided the country were by the end of his presidency it was much more divided than before and a lot of these issues that are coming up the racial tensions stuff like this you know these have been sort of constants in American History you know really since since the civil war you know as you might remember things like the rodney king uprising or the uprising in and riots in los angeles after the rodney king beating in the early ninetys and things like this these are things that have always happened but now it does seem that there is an acceleration and maybe also because of social media and a lot of these technological changes that weve seen the reaction is much quicker and much more forceful as we saw over the weekend for example with. This protest by a native american in washington d. C. And this standoff between him and these White College students and that was just a High School Student sorry this is just an explosive reaction people responding to something that they didnt really you know the facts have really come out about what happened leading up to that and everything here and they were wearing trying to make America Great again hats and so this is all sort of you know put on trump again which i think might be a little bit unfair but i mean legislation wise we didnt see anything like the muslim travel ban i mean thats something that is poured into legislation so i think it is the difference if the president thought of it in hand thing these discussions amplifying all of these in the early. See a lot of the as he promised to do sorry it is something that he said he would do during during the campaign but he said he would enhance or amplify or enable racial tension i mean ben ben muslims from coming its ok but im sure for his reaction to charlottesville i mean that was one of the most disturbing things i think ive ever witnessed in politics like well you know what i mean the idea that there were bad guys i. Pretty clear attack yeah id like to add just a little bit matthew about what you have got to say about President Trumps method because it often seems sort of to be pretty destructive is that it is his and has he made it his mission to destroy pretty much everything that remains of president obama and the liberal sort of heritage its certainly seem so and hes he said as much he wants reverse everything that obama did and hes set about it really theres method in their area so its a neat kind of project destroys the destroy a lot of stuff to rebuild he ran as a change agent and this is what his voters wanted of him and you know he is certainly fulfilling that including i think by shutting down the government and sort of starving the federal government of funds this is a long time you know conservative priority to basically you know make the federal government more or less unable to spend money because it is too bloated already in the saddle it was so much debt to saddle the country was so much debt which hes doing through the tax cuts which is something he also campaigned on and followed through with so you know i think that there is a bit of method but behind the madness and also you know on the International Front ok you mentioned the shutdown has brought hardship to some eight hundred thousand federal workers in the u. S. President trump is insisting though that it will go on until he gets his wall along the border with mexico. And you want to shout i know youre talking about lets start. At the white house on december eleventh there was a very public spat in the oval office when we dont get what we want one way or the other whether its through you through a military through anything you want to call i will shut down to go ok im going to and i am proud and ill be on your watch from follow through on his threat and the democrats continue to refuse funding for troops well. Again we saw a temper tantrum because he couldnt get his way and he just walked out of the meeting i very. Very with all of that white. Narrative is the law but the fact is this that what the president is proposing is not the best way to protect our borders over the years that of americans have been brutally killed by those who illegally entered our country and thousands more lives will be lost if we dont act right now. My staff holding the hostage. Crisis must reopen the government. Can there be any winners in this battle where i dont want to do what unions want to go or gross lets take the question straight come to be any winners in this remarkably breathtakingly ugly battle im not sure whos going to be the winner but there are going to be obviously a lot of casualties namely the hundreds of thousands of federal workers are going without pay as long as the shutdown continues not to mention all of the contractors who work for the government who are also out of work at the most interesting that you say that because obviously they have those people many of those eight hundred thousand people will be very tight budgets indeed and theyll be very hard pushed to this point in time trump was of course in large measure voted into office initially by people who he calls and im quoting now the forgotten men and women of america he promised that they would be forgotten no longer house he delivered on that promise in any way. He has delivered on that and he continues to speak to them and to push forward the interests no matter how misguided of people who for the past few decades have felt ignored by washington i think. Has president. Delivered on his promises to his own people to his own constituency is it well i think that konami place speaking with the tariffs a lot of people in the rust belt are also are also. Also they actually are not making more money and they are the Steel Industry is going down the farmers are making less money because of the tariff so im not really sure if he he economically delivered i agree that he definitely continues to speak to them and continues to speak to a third of. Accomplishment that they want to be heard that they have accomplished whatever they think is important for their lives i do feel that they do that. If you have the economy softly up a bit slowing down a little bit the show is not a challenge to President Trumps probably didnt his own sense that hes the right person to steward to manage the economy and to reinvigorate the economy because thats thats where the next election will probably be decided absolutely and thats why his his strategy here particularly on trade and the trade standoff with china it has yet to play out and if it plays out in his favor meaning if china actually makes concessions if the europeans make concessions then you know he will have one right now its not looking very good because the American Economy is slowing down a bit its still growing much you know at a much stronger pace than most of the european economy is but i think that you know its probably be a few a few months before we know where that goes but there are signs that you know hes making progress on that front that the confrontational approach particularly with the europeans is working theyve now come back to the table on the trade front and said ok well were willing to talk about this and this and this and you know i wouldnt be surprised if you see in the coming weeks some kind of agreement on. Cars between the europeans and the u. S. So you know at the moment its certainly the case that the chinese are so. Offering more. Than the americans on from from the from the terrors i would like to point out though that this week a white house economist said that the shutdown likely will drive the growth of g. D. P. This quarter to zero percent. Which. Is maybe even our optimistic number. Depending on how much longer the shutdown continues its already cost more its the cost the economy more than the wall would cost and i heard that some republican senators are openly thinking out against the check down and also that they think if the existential question and if they do i mean i think they have to rally behind him but what to do in deciding what well in deciding the fate of the Republican Party if they go against the president there and then they have all rallied behind him and tied their fate to him for better or for worse and so i feel like they have to sort of rally behind him even though im not sure how much mcconnell really feels about the shutdown and im not sure how lot of senators are viewing this though i think and i mean he went and the like just recently and thats a clear sign that he has afraid that theyre not going to theyre not going to vote in his favor so at some point im speaking up on how likely it is clearly brutally close to increasingly. The donald trump and his policies have triggered a progressive renascence in the United States is the renascence of Progressive Forces do you think plausible or is it Wishful Thinking on the part of the sort of the liberal left i think its mobilized a lot of young people who may be were indifferent or just mildly interested in politics before i think that this Resistance Movement sprung up in the months following term selection has legs it was mobilized in the house election. Last november not as strongly as people would have liked but i think we saw aspects of that and the question now is whether democrats will be able to continue that holding that interest and continue. Channeling that anger into elections in two thousand and twenty especially if they have Something Like sanders versus clinton i think that was the big part of why people stopped rallying behind one candidate like friends of mine i know that decided to not vote for clinton which i think well well in my opinion that well well you know if theyre thing but. So i feel like if they find a candidate that everyone can rally behind then they really have a good chance of winning this next election but well see ok lets address trumps Foreign Policy which is undoubtedly been a roller coaster his approach to International Relations described as variously mercurial or impulsive lately theres been confusion too over his of ministrations policy on syria talk of withdrawing u. S. Troops has opened up a potential power vacuum and the question is who will fill it. The kurdish city of monday in Northern Syria one thousand people were killed in a suicide bombing here last week including four americans. Socalled Islamic State has claimed responsibility for that attack came less than four weeks after trump had announced the pullout of the two thousand u. S. Troops from syria saying that had been defeated and the u. S. Could no longer be the worlds policeman so were not the suckers of the world. His decision has left the field open for other parties in the conflict the russian president an ally of Syrias Bashar Al Assad was clearly pleased. If the us decided to withdraw its forces thats correct. And turkeys president also sees his chances of launching an offensive against the kurds in Northern Syria improving. Their. Part of the terror corridor in syria will receive the necessary lesson. There is no difference between the p. K. K y p g p y d and beautified. The United States has been a guarantor of security and not just for the kurds what risks are posed by an american pullout. What risks indeed matthew off to this suggestion of the us could possibly pull out of syria theyve withdrawn from the nuclear pact with iran the ploughboy climates accord trade to trade pacts with asia germany has been bemoaning about spain talking about a giant vacuum left by the collapse of american leadership. The giant vacuum well i dont really see the giant vacuum to be honest i mean you know the United States is still here they still have i think about forty thousand troops stationed in germany and for the past seventy years the United States is guaranteed the security of this country and continues to do so it has been a pretty good. Deal for germany actually because they havent had to spend that much on the military they have this security guarantee and not only that theyve been able to tap the American Market relatively unfettered its like you would be difficult to look back you know there was going to find a country that has been so worried because theyre professional worriers thats was. Something to worry about theres always this kind of woe is me theres been a long history of this if you look back to the one nine hundred eighty s. When reagan wanted to station the person this is here during the cold war and all of the people that created the europeans are always worried about what the United States is going to do but when it comes down to it the United States has always been here when it mattered in world war one and World War Two in the Second World War in these discussions about the middle east the United States doesnt have a very large presence in syria i mean we would be pulling out very many people to begin with and i think there is a debate that you know has to happen in the United States as well how long are we going to be in the middle east because theres always an isis theres always an alqaeda and theres always going to be this argument you know well if you pull out now then you know theyre going to come back and well then you need to decide were going to be there forever look how long the u. S. Has been in afghanistan now you know its going on twenty years which is much longer than we were in vietnam what do you say about this political ladies. Well i feel like i feel like you have a point i think that the germans always always it was quite easy for them to be like oh were past that because obviously you have the u. S. And the u. S. Army that you know should push come to shove. They they were going to step in and i think there was always that sort of security that the germans had and obviously regarding the history thats one of the reasons why no one wanted germany to have a Strong Military and i think. Its just the big question over how the European Union is going to set up their Security Forces with france and germany and i think thats going to be a big debate in the next years i dont really feel but i think youre right it will be debated and alternately nothing will happen because they dont want to spend the money on it but America America started pulling back the world policeman under obama as well so i think this is not something were only just seeing now groups theres a sense in germany that the u. S. Has been a has it in for the chance of them has to do through the e. U. The u. S. Says a home or trump specifically ill give you a quote from mike pump a zero for example he says that the talking about the e. U. You know that every reason to wonder whether the you will actually survive he just recently came out and said the u. Is one of those International Bodies that must be reformed or eliminated no wonder that people here in europe here in germany are moaning. About the end of trance atlantis ism and so on and so for me too to mangle a mark twain quote i think the death of the e. U. Is greatly exaggerated i think really in this time of upheaval United States in the. The idea that theres maybe a power vacuum where the us is pulling out this is a time for the e. U. Specifically germany to step up and shine to become that beacon of liberal democracy to become a good example for the world but how can germany really become the beacon of liberal democracy i feel like america is that image of that thats like thats where what weve seen now but now with the increased divisions and the social strife happening i think we now see more clearly than ever the faults that come from the american system the lack of the. Lack of any type of social safety net for example if you do the there are those who suggest that flatly may putin and the americans on donald trump have the same objective that is that is weakening the e. U. And its member nations i dont see why that would really be in the interest of the United States to be honest because you know the u. S. Is very engaged here also economically the e. U. Is a hugely important market for American Business also strategically i think that you know if you look at what the u. S. Is doing in europe at the moment the strategic objectives one thing is to get the russians not to build this pipeline with the germans for example or israel to say that the u. S. Can sell. More of its own gas to europe and this is an example i think if you look at you know all of these accusations out there oh the u. S. Is against multilateralism and the germans are now a beacon of liberal democracy a multilateral civil war as multilateralism in the north stream to a discussion for example where the rest of europe is against it the United States is against it and you have germany standing up and this is signaling that this go through so you know this is why you know when we started out with troops personality really offends a lot of people you know its more about the style off and then the substance of what hes saying and doing grace to talk about style and substance in just under just to go off a little bit of a tundra but a question that is important to me ive made a little list trump breaks it both the yellow vests open and what do they have in common. This is a riddle and. I dont think anyones going to like the punchline to the joke doesnt it im not im im well im war room wondering whether donald trump is is the beacon of populist far right Political Tendencies around the world rather than america being the beacon of liberal democracy as it as it traditionally was yeah i mean what were seeing now in brazil seems to be an echo of the type of politics that trump has been. Purveying in the United States for the past two years like trump boston r. O. Is big twitter user enjoys making inflammatory statements and speaking up for traditional values at the cost of any type of disadvantaged people. That may or may well have happened no matter who is in the American White House but it certainly seems to be a global trend but. I agree i think what they have in common is that theyre populist movements but they yell of us are left wing radicals and right. We dont quite know whats going on really really really know whats going on there but i do feel like that populism is on the rise than it had been for for a couple of years i mean the honesty and i we see it all across. So im im not really sure what came first the hen or the egg like. Like but being the beacon of that but i do feel like often are i know that has been called many or has been called you know brazils trump so i think that that that style is more. Its more acceptable to us as media as well and definitely has to deal with being such a big influence on everyone im going to give me in one sentence each of you what we should do what should we expect for the next in the next two years he spoke to. You know i would say more unpredictability. I agree. But Im Still Holding out hope for those tax returns ok were going to get out now thanks for joining us here on quadriga this week to come back next time around you enjoy the show but i try to. 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