A real life investment you really do have to weigh up the pros and cons if youre not physically able to have children the baby business someones making a lot of money out of this if nature doesnt oblige medical science can do wonders a surrogate mother eggs i. V. s and the bill at the end of the whole process can be something of a one to two it can easily reach into the tens of thousands of euros an emotional purchase an easy catch for those delivering the goods and theres an emotional and psychological tag attached as well as the price tag well explain in a moment first meet my neighbors and her son henry the best neighbors one could have shes been through the whole i. B. S. Process a few times now youll be surprised how common its growing my sister also tried unsuccessfully but in this case there was a little surprise waiting around the corner. There isnt were really happy and thrilled to have a healthy happy child we hope it stays that way. Almost about zero one zero motivation was just realizing we belong together and wanted to become a family and we were lucky enough to have a baby. And kid we both wanted a family and a child and thats why we put ourselves through so much on us thats right now that it is was our front albums. Because im here we had our e. V. A. s four times in total. Because we did them one straight after the other we spent a five figure sum in just nine months. National fund it came out of our savings and our parents helped us along the spot with it as a moment of our understood it was a big financial strain but we found the emotional strain much greater than the physical strain because every time its a major hormonal procedure mazak was a whole on the line for us. Twins airport and im a very positive person and i just thought it would work maybe not the first time but as we can but after four attempts i thought when do you say that was the last time blackman and the violence of lets them are. The most times its been a physicist i think you have to decide for yourself how long do you want to do this for and how often. And will you be able to live with the decision not to devote yourself to this process forever theres always a mushing that some point you come to attach and financially of course but also psychologically you get to the point where you just cant take anymore and. And. The global Facility Services market is growing at an annual rate of around ten percent report published by allied Market Research shows it could be a thirty billion dollars by two thousand and twenty three. Sided as well as some countries shrinking populations are a drag on many of the advanced economies after all whos going to pay the pensions of an aging population procreation appears on many government agendas in the form of Financial Support when i first came to germany i couldnt get over how many of my friends had no brothers or sisters thats changing but slowly. One point five thats the average birth rate per woman in germany. Its the highest figure since one thousand nine hundred seventy s. Numbers have been rising for years. Hundred thousand children were born in twenty sixteen. Partly because an increasing number of older women became mothers often with the help of. Found women with a migrant background had more children on average. One point five nine. Thats something to celebrate. The. Birth rate. And europe is at the bottom of the international rankings. Two point two children and its four point six in africa. Germany. Much more likely to have. As youve heard people desperate to have children are a great source of income for many businesses the Fertility Services sector is going gangbusters and we havent even gone into adoption but what about sarkozy time to delve into the legalities and the ethics behind the business of having someone else spare a child for you. Takes us on this next. Point for us is placed. A. How does it feel to buy a child car after car and. Im looking at the websites of a fatality and surrogacy clinic. It offers a range of services it has. It carries out in vitro fertilization and it provides sort of good mothers. Depending on the package costs. Over fifty thousand euros more than the price of a midrange co so thats a lot of money to. The clinic is in ukraine that the website is in german and targets german women who cant have children i tried to reach out to some women in this position via facebook right. They were basically all very skeptical about me as a journalist joining their group so i could quit. Parked only one woman responded shes looking for some a good mother. Long hour long if youve been looking. She says its been two years now. Sandra does not want to be identified she tells me she was born without a womb. That some things are not sure you know for every woman can have a child somehow. From me. Or any chances with the help of a surrogate. But why wont they let us have on the hardware sandras eggs have been fertilized with her husbands sperm now she just needs to find a woman who will let an embryo be implanted and carry the child to term and then give the baby back to its biological parents for a fee this kind of service is banned in germany because poor women could feel compelled to rent out their bodies. The ethical issues are certainly complex. For all sandra shows me lots of websites offering commercial Surrogacy Services as if it were a business like any other. Side some require a fee just to establish contact. Center look for a surrogate in germany. Can you negotiate the price how much were talking about as a. Surrogate mothers asked for twenty five thousand jurors and all who is is that the maximum mechanical or higher this given much higher. Theres no limit. When it comes to cost there is no limit one woman was asking for thirty five thousand for that price i could do as a broad and legal terms that would be safer. Surrogacy is legal in a number of countries there are clinics in the United States that provide the service for about one hundred thousand euros its a lot cheaper in ukraine laos and kenya. Commercial surrogacy used to be big business in india until it was banned in twenty fifteen for foreigners and then in twenty seventeen for indians as well. Now surrogacy is only allowed among relatives and if no money changes hands rinku tells my colleague how much she earned as a surrogate mother four thousand. That is as much as a husband earns as a rickshaw driver in three years. With the money she has been able to finance her sons schooling. Its estimated commercial surrogacy in india was a two billion euro a year industry at its peak does a legal ban mean it just stops or does that drive the business underground. For me during the whole thing somewhere else like that was not an option just look how the women live there its a total rip off. Sandra tells me that it would have cost her thirty five thousand euros in ukraine but the surrogate mother would only get seven thousand euros. The cleanin will get the rest. To be pregnant misandrist dream but it will never happen. She has however now found a woman here in germany who is willing to be her surrogate in the autumn theyll go to a clinic in the Czech Republic for the procedure to implant the embryo. Shell pay her eight thousand euros. For instance that do you feel like a criminal since this is not allowed in germany. For circusy is not in fact found in germany per se and it cannot be punished through what is illegal is the procedure and the thing so theres a bit of a loophole in the law so were doing the procedure abroad and then well come back to germany. Not so it appears we have to do it this way fertilization and implantation in a foreign country. On this in some and then well have to adopt the child here in germany. Our own child mind i mean this. This whole story has left me rather stunned i can totally feel for the women who want a child and i can understand the position of surrogate mothers. But still the commercial aspect is unsettling the whole industry devoted to making and marketing babies. And again the legalities just explain why that woman had to adopt her own child i mean that straight yes because shes not the legal mother or the surrogate mother the legal mother in germany and the father spent as the legal father so then at the end she can adopted by the takes time and secure the trust factor thats thats a huge thing trusting that youll actually get that kid back yeah its. Trust is a huge thing and that because the right doesnt know if the surrogate mother really gives she gives birth to a child and she doesnt know if she if you think should be attached to that child or she probably is and the same way around. The surrogate mother sure that sandra takes the kid because they have been cases when the biological parents didnt come to get the child anymore you know they just left it because it had disabilities or something so trust and theres no legal no legal basis its just trust that they both thought what parts. What about actually talking about these things my neighbor for example i never knew that shed gone through i v f my sister of course told me all about it but a lot of people dont want to talk about it yeah i dont know actually really if you have two thousand and eighteen and we dont talk about using medical help to get pregnant and using these all that matters it still and i dont know theres still shame distilled shame attached to this topic you probably know that its not easy to talk about these kind of things and i dont understand why this two thousand and eighteen its not. What you think about the methods and the actual principle behind them at the cost yet to be honest im very liberal to my rary personal opinion is its good to have these measures its good to have these possibilities but at the same time you talk about the amount of money just people who can afford to do that get children so is it really is it really fair only to get children because you can pay thirty five thousand twenty five thousand people thats really its a difficult question yeah good question great thank you very much exciting stuff. Well lets talk a little more about success rates the return on your investment and if those astronomical prices are justified because the business of assisted reproduction is booming and some people spending small fortunes on achieving their dream of a child. One prick of the needle costs fifteen hundred euros artificially uniting exile in stone is an expensive business its also a laborious one first as many most houses burn as possible have to be collected and then theres the eggs. Its our job to isolate egg cells and to identify ambrose that have the greatest chance of achieving a pregnancy and can be implanted. There have been big technological leaps forward here or if the camera systems and genetic checkups help us to do just that. Cameras doctors can identify which excels a not viable one indication the cells clump together that means they are unsuitable for use in i. V. s treatment. And every day occurrence in the reproduction business. In the laboratory belongs to a fertility clinic in berlin and the clinic itself belongs to one of the biggest providers a five year thing europe and a managing director to Sebastian Ahrens turnover of the vivendi has risen by four percent per annum and still he continues to buy our clinics. As we shift as if your vision. An attractive business if you can make money if you run things properly. Thats the same time the level of competition is growing and quality standards are improving its much i wholeheartedly welcome your forms and the venue your group is happy to participate in that. Quality means making as few mistakes as possible for example when removing excels for i. V. If there are. Clinics reputation race on the race at which its patients get pregnant the more pregnancy the better for customers the cost is of second dream for. When weve exhausted all possibilities that we have as fertility specialists you can assume that there will be a cumulative pregnancy rate of sixty five seventy or even eighty percent as far as were concerned thats a very very good rate well never manage to achieve one hundred percent there are a lot of ways to be couples who will be unable to achieve a pregnancy and no matter how hard or how often they try. Telling you possible lavin you think business has no really take you know social age phrasing this allows women to have. One to three years theres been a lot of publicity about this and we might have expected to be overrun by women wanting to take advantage of it but thats not the case weve only had the hard consultation and comparison to the volume of our other treatments there are few women who are interested in social egg freezing. I. D. F. On the other hand certainly has a future as more and more women in germany decide to have a child later in life that makes it less likely that they will get pregnant naturally but its certainly good for business. To look to the future now at a topic that isnt all that far down the road designer babies with precision gene editing already a reality parents today can for example prevent certain inherited diseases but what about altering other traits may be possible but its illegal in germany ended many other countries is a look at just some of the ethical conundrums confronting lawmakers. The baby blue eyes and blond hair or would green eyes be better very soon parents may be able to choose genetic modification could theoretically be used to create the desired appearance but thats ethically problematic and would have to know ramifications for the health of the child but it is possible and in countries like the us legal another scenario trying for an ideal child with the ideal d. N. A. For instance taking agone sperm from men and women with high genetic potential to create a child and the lab. Then theres the chance to scan and embryos genetic makeup for conditions like metabolic disorders to minimize the chance of illness. And suspect embryos are rejected with the aim of creating a healthy child. In germany embryo selection is strictly regulated and genetic modification is banned. Germany is a giant when it comes to industry events hosts of the Worlds Largest trade fairs in everything from electronics to the just sticks but until recently Reproductive Services didnt have one thats because for historical reasons reproduction has always been a touchy subject here we went to have a critical talk with the man whos been breaking taboos. The part of the show is to achieve peoples. Wish for a baby. The idea is to obviously. Create your own family. That is it may be a bit like a commodity. Now its just a cute picture. Attracts people tracks the i. You know at the end of the day people like you can accuse babies. There is still quite a lot of controversy when it first opened because i guess its. That aspect thats you know its you know its basically Offering Services that the germans would say forbidden in germany for a reason a lot of controversy. Germans are already doing it with or without the show so people are going abroad they are choosing Nice Services and they are bringing children back some of them having complications bringing children back. We dont advocate or ban anything we say here is a range of things are available around the world you choose what you want to do and then we bring the experts together to help them make those choices. But its a fine line between educating and selling right im not allowed to sell so it is for been show to sell to sell any of the services so it really is about informing people of the legalities in those individual countries. And how those treatments work i guess if you want to be really critical you say ok but you dont have. Anybody who discusses like the ethical implications its really about the project and the baby is that its a probably do have ethical we do have ethical discussions a we do its not it isnt just to pry is about understanding the entire a. Fertility universe in whats out there whats good whats bad whats indifferent. Like any industry there are Service Providers that to a great job and there are Service Providers that you would not wish to choose. Where do you draw the lines. We draw the lines in countries that are controversial in terms of some of the treatments. There are some countries around the world that have questionable. Services that we would not invite to come in and shot at me any examples where that you can get out of or i probably shouldnt but somewhere like thailand there has been many controversies in the Services Available in taiwan and particularly. When it came sarkozy. Its a lot of. For in provide this unfortunately the german. Fertility industry has been a bit slow in supporting the event some fear i think from a lot of the doctors. Not used to. Presenting themselves in public they dont want to come across as a business they probably dont want to see themselves selling selling their practices. Do you think its going to in the long run helps. To normalize treatments that are at the moment forbidden in germany but you create demand and that might in the long term also changed things a little really what we have done in the last two years is raise awareness of the subject raise the subject raise the topic in germany and got people talking about it again if you take the patients themselves they dont want opinions they want Solutions Solutions to create a family that can only be a good thing. Because it is good for whom back at the beginning of the show we met my neighbor got we gather and her son henry shes been there done that so how does she feel about it now. I think its big and lucrative business but its also a big dream for many people like getting married to the love of your life and celebrating with the whole family and spending a lot of money on the wedding but theyre going to have it thats why people are willing to spend a lot of money on fulfilling that desire for a child and see it as a key to happiness. But i think thats really just a moment. But after four attempts there came a point after nine months of i. P. F. Treatment when this topic was only present when we said lets take a break. And the following year we conceived our child quite naturally. It was a minor miracle and a great relief to no longer have to deal with this topic anymore because i do as an author said see the. Bias. Who said before i dont want to. Kill him i dont think i have yet for other kinds of fertilizer treatment ought to be but its not something you talk about with the bakers either as there is still a bit of stick more attached. But with time you discover that a lot of people have their children with assistance only with a great deal of luck or have adopted children. Out of. Money if you only find that out afterwards. I think it would help a lot of people if society were more open about the subject of these and to mount the unit that would make it a bit easier for people who have to deal with it as the last of it is american so they realize theyre not alone this is not the whole thing is not something bad. And it can have a happy end. Nice way to end the show and if you want to share your thoughts on the subject get in touch with me on twitter or head for our Facebook Page its always great to hear from you thanks for joining us this week on major catch you again next by fidel. The fish. Eggs. 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