Enter the conflict zone with tim sebastian. Challenging those in power asking tough questions demanding. As conflict intensify ill be meeting with kid players on the ground in the centers of. Cutting through the rhetoric holding the powerful to account the conflicts. Conflict zone with tim sebastian. D. W. You because im talking to thomas schanberg about society and the church as president of the Central Committee of german catholics he represents twenty three million german catholics and they stand back the president of germany has said the round over immigration is dividing the nation where catholics stand on this issue from the perspective of german catholics could there be an immigration demit. That
ought to. Be the good thing there may be a limit but we havent reached it yet and i think this issue has been blown out of proportion because we did cope with the huge wave of immigrants in twenty fifteen or twenty sixteen. And dont forget that many of these people are war refugees wont be no longer taken more refugees. Of course we should question its been said that everyone arriving in germany comes only to claim our benefits thats a complete misrepresentation and weve always contested just distortion of facts. The right wing populist is the strongest Opposition Party in the german bundestag they are vehemently opposed to a Refugee Policy does that make them a nonchristian party. Not rejecting the Refugee Policy Per Se that could be acceptable by the way the a. F. P. Rejected. Is largely unchristian putting all refugees under suspicion treating them
as if they were all the same and promoting a nationalism by which youre only german if youve been living here for generations of that is diametrically opposed to what we understand as christians and we reject this absolutely. Then you people share your view yet the increasingly popular do you have an explanation for that. There seems to be the big question with populist movements in europe in general is that i think different people are voting for them and people feel abandoned by society or who feel that they and their problems are not being seen you mentioned if we look at low paid workers not people on welfare but low earners they sometimes feel excluded from what they see as high brow discussion us. Going on but there are many Different Reasons why these right wing Populist Parties are appealing wonderful criticism of the f. T. Is that the party is exploiting and Instrumental Izing those reasons in
a shameless manner. Or dont. You see anyone saying this is not the kind of party we vote for this is not what we want so do i understand you correctly is this a call to boycott the f. T. In the elections after. I gave that interview after their Party Chairman of exxon the go round wrote their piece in the front for the argument a newspaper in which he did liberally used National Socialist phrases and also their type of argumentation when he says the a. F. D. Is the thorn in the side of a system which has to be vanquished hes crossing the boundary of democracy in my opinion this should trigger the strongest resistance for what. You say the party is on electable and trying to ostracize them which may well be your personal position doesnt this exclusion strengthen those who already feel that nobody listens to them. This could be very good if their problems are not heard about that i think we can talk about the problems that make people vote for a party like the f. T. Its not possible to talk about the problems however if they are exploited if aig news is being disseminated if rape reports are being made up if stories are invented to incite others. Through what however to me seems worse than the pure fixation on the Refugee Issue is that theyre turning problems into religious issues. The islamophobia and asked party. Lets stay on the topic of immigration and refugees because the criticism is not only from the f. T. But also from the Christian Social Union in the area which demands a strict Immigration Limit is that type of criticism permissible. Yes but there are large parts of that debate ive never understood it. Speak about an upper limit of Two Hundred Thousand but we havent reached that yet and with
real Asylum Seekers who genuinely need asylum because theyre from a war zone the german constitution will never allow an upper limit to go so ive always found this discussion about a fictional upper limit puzzling. And thats the senates move on to another discussion another key issue concerning the Catholic Church the Child Abuse Scandal we have heard priests in australia the us island in chile and now also in germany Sexually Abusing Thousands of victims for the Catholic Church in germany covered up or ignored this scandal for decades pushed shrieking for trying. I think that after the scandal came to light in twenty ten. Church dealt with the issue. Strictly intensive manner go on this is just been made public the church commissioned an investigation into the matter it was a long why didnt they get the state to investigate the matter come into the state
can only investigate using its Public Prosecutors if it has any additional suspicion of the process is quite different. And for the for the me forget i think that the Public Prosecutor will now investigate cases for which the statute of limitations does not apply and the church is tackling the issue of preventative measures are being taken today in most dioceses unfortunately not in all of them its a very serious problem for our church and will make sure that there will be consequences which will lead to change and that investigations will continue unabated. Vacantly at how valuable are these Investigations Investigators were commissioned by the church not all of the diocese disclose their files which leads the question of whether the problem is being properly assessed because that would be tied. Down to the i think the figures in the investigation are shocking enough. If we have to be clear that not everyone has been checked court on many only male clergymen deacons
and other staff have been investigated no female staff or lay staff they have been. Because i think they were clear as human have done here which is particularly reprehensible beyond the question of. Could be an incentive to really address the staggering issue of child abuse in germany as a whole and not intimately and almost me but surely those who want to resolve the issue and regain trust have to ask who were the perpetrators and who were the ones who transferred the priests suspected of abuse to other parishes as happened brought in the us. This would have the minister that would require clear criminal proceedings because of course there are things in these files that have not been proven if you are going to move on id like to remind people that there was an accusation against the late bishop of here this time. Which turned out to be false because the only one who has to be very careful. There is protection for the
victims and i sometimes wonder whether it wouldnt be more important to help the victims how can we support them from the how can we talk about what happened to them. We can take preventive measures so that it doesnt reoccur we can observe i mean this is a much more important. Wants to see heads roll card they want to see a person dragged out in public they want to point the finger and say it was him thats not the way to solve the issue. But mr stanbury with all due respects nobody from the church has yet said i am personally to blame not only take responsibility for my actions but i resign from my position but what is there to gain from that if that happens if there were such a person and i have no other option that the media personalize this problem so that if we find the guilty party the problem is solved this is of course wrong what about the victims this is exactly what theyre demanding that someone takes
responsibility yeah yes. As i say there has to be a criminal investigation but im opposed to show trials or a public pillaring of the perpetrator. With. The seeking the guilty part. And putting them on show the president publicly condemning and punishing that. Thats not the solution to such a deep Seated Problem where a relationship of trust and difference of power has been abused in such a staggering and in comprehensible way. You mention preventative measures should celibacy be reconsidered experts who researched for you say this was one of the roots of the abuse. Before says no researchers say that the bigger issue was the way homosexuality is dealt with. Homosexual men are not allowed in priesthood and. The suppression of sexuality is a much bigger issue of. Course you know it seems absurd to me that living
a single life would push someone to abuse children especially considering that in germany most child abuse occurs within the family. In from. Priests in the Catholic Church abuse children five times more than deacons who are allowed to marry and this is this correct if the celibacy rule were lifted priests would deal with sexuality differently im convinced of that i would but it wouldnt solve the problem doesnt and so i dont see what the church can do to prevent it in future and to find missing should women be ordained in the Catholic Church. We certainly want a more Feminine Church then we have got to come on. We need a wider mix on all levels of believers and priests relievers and clergy of the four hundred percent course includes women. Not only on a local level but in top positions of the church and i think this is imperative. I
stand by mr stanbury weve reached the end of our interview and id like you to complete three sentences. For me being a catholic today means. You know youre a member of a church which is shrinking line of it but which is also becoming more pluralist which now lets decisiveness the you look at many communities the churches pruning but ive not given up hope that it still attracts reflective people or people who are seeking meaning in their life. What. If i didnt follow in my fathers footsteps as a baker because well i did become a baker at first but at the age of sixteen i was told that with my leg problems it wouldnt be good for me to do a job read to stand so much so instead of retraining to join the post office of the railways i thought id do Anything School thats almost with me. If i trust in the strength of German Civil Society because but if you must talk of Civil Society is
increasingly the place where democracy and humanity are upheld. Democrat these democracy is the only form of government which can also topple the state as weve seen recently in or number of nations. But democracy is also the only form of government where the citizens themselves can prevent this. Which brings us back to the theme we had right at the beginning of thing forget about theme so much stand back thank you you thank. A muse alice exists in the unsub. Cold so cold. Can suck to this town since the. Bugs. People have put big dreams on the big story in