Transcripts For DW Arts.21 20220917

These are the masterminds of document 15. There were one group of Art Collective as legendary in indonesia. It was conceived more than 20 years ago in the capital jakarta. Not long after so ottos dictatorship ended. The country was reeling. Rewan group, a wanted to try something new, to Network Artists and Foster Mutual support. Thats what the Group Continues to do today. Organizing exhibitions and festivals based on the idea that art should be relevant to the society in which it is created. And that the collective is more important than the individual. Castles, cons, tyler, frederick fiano, is the document as main benya. Putting a radical asian artists, collective in charge of curating this years event was always going to be a divisive decision. Many welcome to it, but there are also concerns would document 15 take aim at western societies at their lifestyles at the art market. We come here or is a collective coming promo on think sofa indonesia, which is always called global south. We dont come yet to change money. Come here to bring the best, what we consider the best from our practice in then what we hope our expectation is actually that up to look them in the 5th team. We want to keep on experimenting the way to sharing resources in working together out in order to sustain together. Also, bronze rupa and its International Team of advisors are committed to art that is not produced for a market that aims to have an impact on society. And it knows no stars and no hierarchies. The collective sees its task documented not to curate, but to invite artists with similar approaches to their work. We dont comission works. We dont us, we dont use the classical approach or conventional approach of curating is because wrong hoopla, we, none of us were a train isic urethra if people call us lauretha. We dont could these ice, but we never caught our santa fe security of a fresh Ground Breaking approach. If only it werent for the anti semitism accusations against the were one group a collective that emerged months before the official opening as well as allegations that some of its members supported, the anti israeli b d. S movement and complaints that no israeli, but several, palestinian artists were invited in castle and in berlin. The issue was initially play down with management, implying there was nothing to the claims documentary organizers insisted they under Germany Special responsibility regarding the issue of anti semitism is named it dont. We take germanys responsibility very seriously once and were addressing it and the, and the artists here have also been dealing with it very closely with his under the entire approach of this documentary is directed towards the future. And that is why this and preoccupation with germanys hostile, its just simply not been front and center, im talking to does t, my cookies, thir, hey. 2 law move the opening in june 2022 was a major event. So was all the fuss, forgotten . Until the very last minute, the artist of the indonesian towering party collective were working on their cardboard figures on the central friedreichs plots where shortly after the official opening, the 9 by 12 metre peoples justice banner was to be hon. When it was finally unveiled, a scandal erupted, but 20 year old work, recalling the former indonesian president so ottos reign of terror as well as the regimes international helpers such as the israeli secret service. And this was depicted with the worst imaginable anti semitic stereotypes. A soldier with a pigs face and an orthodox jew with fangs and ss ruins on his hat. There was an outcry. First, the artists covered up the large format picture that didnt solve the problem. 2 days later, the banner was removed and the huge frame dismantled gamete theyll get sick, get to them to let boa, ah, giving out that we were shot, that what we have experienced in developing countries could also happen in developed countries up on pneumonia cover. It means that there is no difference in how people look at a work of arts. How young bernacki, the allow me to gotten into got up or when there is a sensitive issue, the data, but there is no dialogue or anything else. But the artwork is simply dismantled, visited the guy that i said, who sent it difficult, moved in to pull out at the i looked and line line. Yeah, it the golden understand secrecy to lou and bothers at our local documentary. Had the very anti semitism debate on its hands, it had explicitly been warned about the International Press took note, but still no one took responsibility. The public was horrified. How could this happen in the country that had murdered millions of European Jews . Where preventing all forms of anti semitism is always on data. The president of the Central Council of jews in germany was appalled to meet under the metal was made for me. Anti semitism is inhumane. No matter whether in indonesia or germany, of course, and, and to jewish anti israeli stereotypes are sadly common in some countries in a country like germany with its history and its responsibility. This should never be allowed to stop promoting anti semitism in Art Exhibitions with states with tax money is not acceptable. Israeli german miran mental deals with this issue professionally. As director of the Anne Frank Educational center in frankfort, his his job to mediate and promote dialogue, he offered to serve as an advisor to help the documentary identify other anti semitic works. This thin fall on the ship, and how often on the issue was a shambles. And all we can do is look ahead sure the time will come when will need to look at what went wrong. Ha, that now we need to take a constructive approach and ensure we look at the problematic roberts that are still there, had very closely good nowadays, but will box them. But thats precisely what for weeks. No one seemed interested in doing the document. His board went missing in action, even when more works were deemed to be anti semitic. For instance, guerra nika, gaza, a series of paintings by palestinian artist mohammed al, watch re copies of photos of his railey soldiers in the style of the old masters. The pictures themselves are more anti israeli than anti semitic, but the series title grand nika gaza equates the destruction of the basque town of where nica by the german looked boffa in 1937 with israeli settlement policy. Such distortions may serve the narrative of palestinian extremists. Then, in an exhibition mounted by an algerian womens archive, a brochure withdrawing showing his railey soldiers threatening a child was found. Is it anti semitic to the document to says no, but an explanatory text is now placed alongside it in it. The collective explains that their historical document and the criticism of the Israeli Occupation is not synonymous with anti semitism. In another exhibition space, the artists collective subversive film shows pro palestinian propaganda films from the 1960 seventys and eightys films, the depict israel, and its military solely as aggressors. Nowhere does it say who produced these films for food shanty, mr. Happening forced him and i saw it 5 years ago. You couldnt even have imagined Something Like this. Now though you hear such things more and more often, and i think its very important that society politicians, the media and culture itself, put up some resistance at the document. Imagine the documentary still to day giving voice to palestinian terrorists on aloof in a country, marking the 50th anniversary of the munich olympics massacre. In no way can i accept letting a palestinian terrorists speak . Listen, the conscious kind of, i say, at the resulting public pressure forced the head of the documentary to resign. And an interim general manager took over alexander foreign holds, whod manage the Art Exhibition 30 years ago. But he too, didnt want to take down or remove anything, preferring to leave the decision about what was anti semitic, to a newly formed Advisory Board as of his own to give us his love of the only thing we can all agree on very quickly and is that anti semitism has no place at a documentary. But what that means now as precisely the point thats being debated. And i think this part of the debate is very productive because its also taking place within the jewish community. I think youd have to communicate that none the less it is. So, and i noticed this in personal discussions to that in the jewish community. People feel distressed or even hurt by the occurrences which have taken place in castle and that heaping them from visiting castle viet, and did catholics of his, over the challenges of appointing a collective of artistic directors who dont define themselves as curators had become clear or are they darma want publicly apologized in the name of ruined robert. Okay, yet didnt accept responsibility. Youre here. The collective believes germans sensitivities blue the matter up into an anti semitism scandal. The artists from the collective tiring party fear for their reputation. Theyre still being criticized in the media on twitter and elsewhere. Ive done a double major under the under scuse than done on this. I mean, this is the indonesian that the how general c l m. The issue of anti semitism is rarely mentioned. This is the one weve done so we dont know in the detail exactly what the issue is far. The thought if there is a specific no, in germany, more about the local mo, jenman deputy roonan. Yeah. I because we are indonesian so we dont know in detail if thats what the issue is and he said, be done with the whole. Is it what were alluding to do . Is he got a violent come back on the months of we can say, oh annette quickly, id rather you to go that trying party is not. And t submits a thing going ganga santa. Towering. Pardon my background, isnt that always open to diversity . Because that is law luther is a human ryans sherman garden. I to her, as i see my museum, and its exactly what the members of talking party have been fighting for over the past 2 decades. Human rights, the recognition of religious and ethnic minorities, more democracy, and freedom of expression and against racism. They see themselves as artists, but also as activists. They feel the accusations of anti semitism are an attack on their whole identity. How anti semitic is the documentary . Thats what the expert panel was tasked with finding out. It statement published 2 weeks before the end of the show was devastating. Both for one rupa and for the exhibitions decision makers. It becomes clear that the Serious Problems of the document 15 can says not only in the presentation of isolated works with anti semitic imagery and statements, but also in a curatorial, an organizational structural environment that is allowed and anti zionist, anti semitic, and anti israel sentiment. The experts called for immediate action and an instant stop to the showing a palestinian propaganda phelps through the debate made it look like most of the works on display or anti semitic. As a result, many artists feel they have wrongly been cast under a cloud of suspicion. They are said to be around 1500. 00 artists and activists at the document. But there might be even more than that, since the artists and collectives invited in turn invited others romanian artists. Don payoff ski is one of the few internationally known participants in front of castles, main train station. He produces his daily horizontal newspaper, featuring drawings and texts on the state of the world. And the latest from the documentary, it inevitably leads to conversations with pastors by. Thats how he sees the role of art taking a stand and having an impact on society. Its what he did while living under ceausescu communist regime in romania before its collapse in 1989 as an artist whose exhibited in the world leading museums. How does he see his role at this years documentation . Im a good translator between this was the global saw than the western world because i do not belong to any of course my, my training is west them all odd, hastily, boys, whatever. But i also learned from them from other parts of the world. I was in australia, i was a masha asia law. I law not the point of view so i can, i think i can do the bridge. And i think probably this is one of these. I got invited to you, dan patch off skis, main work at the document 15 can be seen on the columns of the free to reach the on, on a building dating back to the 18th century. And the nucleus of the whole show. Again, comments, and cartoon like drawings meant to illustrate the values of this is exhibition. Damper just ski applauds ron group for introducing the idea of a mutually supportive art scene to the documentary. This is the how this people are living in the country. Theres no aud market there, so have to you resist economically if you are in a, in a network or group, i need to. Busy workshops and know and sell a t shirt and you know, so you have to invent an economy to exist. So, and i think they teach us very well now because the wind that is coming here, right, the money will go to panza now. So the culture body will be caught, so we have to collaborate, is this don pet just ski shrugs off the suggestion that the document to 15 was overshadowed by a debate a scandal about anti semitism. This is justin that me that theres no scandal here. Comment is it, obviously the scandal is unsettling. The artists dont want it to eclipse their message. To meet with brush an artist, victoria la moscow. We have to cross town in the residential area of baton house and is not necessarily where you would expect to find art. The Catholic Church of saint connie goodness has stood empty for years. During the document 15, it hosts mc cobb, looking multimedia sculptures by the haitian collective artist, racist tops, representing christian figures of saint some with human skulls that evoke voodoo rituals. Victorian moscow wanted to meet us here because shes fascinated by these pictures in the churchyard. She shows us the work she made during the document of 15. Le moscow refers to herself as a graphic, journalist, and in russia, her drawings have always been critical of pollutants politics. She fled her home at the beginning of the train war in castle. She calls herself a harvest, recording her observations and conversations. My goal, its not to find the sun to pro creative an ordinary jordan, but to assume go home to support each other and comb to share experience. And its a big challenge for me to talk in english views, artists from indonesia, from when you have this car that is from of it can come with it is at this moment though, i knew it, i need you can fill this forth in the middle of course she also asked questions about the anti semitism debate in her talks with fellow artists. You understand the situation. I ha, i tried the last song in you, blah, on some assumptions. Gloves is normal. You dont want the roll booms. Video i saluted a woman joy when you saw just say themselves pickable too. Many of the artists she has met with come from a different cultural background and offer a different take on the debate. Her own story, her fear of reprisals or even arrest has not been a theme of her work here. But it might be once the documentary is over. Okay. Wow, alice yard, a self described ard in Performance Space network was founded in 2006. The yard is traditionally a space where neighbors and residents gather, which anyone can use. Alice yard picks up on his tradition. A couple of artist friends started out by setting up a kind of artists workshop, a space to make contacts and find inspiration from one another. Kristin chen found his way to the group when he returned to port of spain after studying design in the united states. For me though, as a person who has a practice, no, was in search of his space or it kind of arrive than he came. You know, something that i dont know if i chose, but it was present and there was something that i had access to um and allowed me to, oh, so v up that have conversations and work with other artists that i did not know when i, when i moved back home after education. Im so it quickly became, you know, a network of, um, of, of crates of, oh, trinidad is the southernmost island of the west indies and home to many immigrants and many descendants of former slaves. So colonialism and its effects have always been a major topic, making our here is a challenge. The International Art market has tended to overlook trinidad, the invitation to the document a came as a complete surprise to christopher kos. Yay. An artist and Founding Member of alice yard. You know, when i was the odd student as a young person in the u. S. You know, document, there was something that sort of grim ah, you know, sort of white meals or drum p faces did somewhere in the world, you know, and as a broad body, i could, id best be an eloquent for you, but not actually participate in this conversation. The alice guard artists exhibit their works appropriately enough in a yard behind a bar in castle and theyve invited artists from their network to join them. Here. One is performance artist, Louis Vasquez laroche whos brought to germany. Traditions from the caribbean, carnivals that are deeply rooted in trinidad own colonial history. The crack of the whip here surf to parity, the cruel slave driver. The document is not so much the place to enhance ones market value as to Exchange Ideas with other artists by interpreting themes close to their hearts and minds. Thats what the alex guard artists are enjoying most dino. So fit, he hasnt come to the document as an artist, but as a member of a Research Collective offering education in the arts in africa. Another road map africa cluster is a network of activists dedicated to illuminating the continents colonial history. Many stories, languages, and even identities have been defined by the former colon, all powers one of our key interests is dealing with our Colonial Ghosts as we call them. This is something that basically brings us altogether and because there are so many complexities that come with the residue of colonial, etc. On the continent, were trying still to see how to activate archives, explore history, and paid ways forward through that in our own understanding of cells. As members within the collective document to offer an opportunity for this collective from various african countries to continue their School Textbook project workshops where these topics are discussed are open to the public. So theater is only sad. The discussions at the document to 15 have been overshadowed by the anti semitism issue. It has been a huge part of, of document a 15 those no way of escaping it. Bad at her and i thought to speak too much on that because its such a loaded topic. And personally, i feel like this is a more internal thing and im a visit to her and therefore i really like, yeah, i mean i sympathize with some of the things that had been said on both sides. People have experienced violence and there are a lot of feelings. Its grounds to have an honest and open conversation. But thats going to be a difficult conversation. And i wonder if all the parties involved are ready for that moment of being honest and gender enough. I think with artists from any parts of the world that are rarely represented in the art world, the document a 15 brings to other political art and traditional art parked by ethnic groups that might never hang in a museum. Hundreds of thousands of visitors dont want to miss the opportunity to see it. The document is interim managing director already sees the exhibition as a success that will resonate why. Oh, you go in because i dont think there have been many such milestone in athens in that, in that document us history. A milestone Vermont Group as approach may indeed resonate in the long term. Their efforts to Network Artists and support local communities could meet with some success or even eventually change concepts of art. But in their task is curators. They undoubtedly failed either overlooking blatant anti semitism or redefining it as artistic freedom is reckless at best. In an open letter ruin group a along with other documented artists, rejected the experts, criticism. We are angry, we are sad, we are tired, we are united the document began with a good idea, but ended in irreconcilable differences. The dialogue between the global south and the global north that was supposed to take place barely got started. And as an institution, its been seriously damaged. Some critics or even wondering if germanys most renowned Art Exhibition can survive, it needs a reboot for sure, with a new team that takes the curators task seriously. And will have to prove that the message that shook the art world to its core has been received. And understood ah, [000 00 00;00] with i want to talk to you about inequality, the 77 percent. My clinic is kimani and had crew talk to the people who feel left behind. The st debate from lagos, nigeria is in no more the result is not regarding the problem is that if you got the theme on the co width of the moxie, why is nothing changing with the 7 percent of next on d, w, and which country have the world most mercedes, benz, limousine, albania, over year vintage is in demand. Especially the one t for series. Mercedes benz treasure, the classic cars, and enjoy maintaining them. Why so much . Hi. Well send like an old state secret rep. In 60 minutes on dw, im just kinda, i got tired and in the end this, i mean, youre not locked up to you anymore. We will send you back. Are you familiar with this reliance . I mean, whats your story from. Ready he wasnt, i was women, especially victims of financing. I love to take part and send us your story. We are trying always to understand this new culture. So you are not a visitor, not a guests. You want to become a citizen. In so migrants your platform for reliable information its time again for your favorite use. Sure to 77 percent on this program we talk about all the things that are important to young africans. Then a miss or t, michael will t and on todays program i want to talk to you about inequality. It is estimated