Miss judy gold is performing at Kravis Center in West Palm Beach the thursday through sunday. So go see her. How about you guys . Not in florida. Home. I like to put on a little show in the evening. I dance. Joy thank very much. Thanks to all my guests see you next time. Enenfe imennifer r anholm. Tonight in the war room, will wonders never cease. A bipartisan proposaler for comprehensive Immigration Reform. That word bipartisan, it has been so long had almost forgotten how to pronounce it. [ theme music ] jennifer well if all goes as planned in washington 11 Million Immigrants in this country will have a path to citizenship by springtime. Today this socalled gang of eight, four democratic senator, four republican senator, announced a plan to overhaul the immigration system, and they said they would do it through one big comprehensive measure, rather than several smaller pieces, and that much both sides agreed on. But the particulars of the plan took a little more hammering out. So senator schumer summed up the democrats point of view. We recognize in order to pass Bipartisan Legislation none of us can get everything we want. Thats why our framework says we can address the status of People Living here illegally, while at the same time creating an Immigration Reform system that assured will never again confront 11 Million People coming here illegally. Jennifer under the senator plan most Illegal Immigrants would be able to apply to become permanent residents, which is a first crucial step towards citizenship. But the republicans wanted to ad beefedup Border Security. So the path to citizenship for 11 million will only happen if certain boarder enforcement measures are put in place, that includes investment in new Technology Including drones for Border Patrol agents and all of the new security measures are going to have to be certified by border states. Thats emerging as one of the most controversial parts of the plan because there will be a commission of people from the border states that will decide when Border Security measures are actually complete. So some progress is are concerned that that certification would put the success of the entire plan in the hands of politicians like Arizona Governor jan brewer. The cynical interpretation here is that republicans are finally just realizing the obvious. That they just have no shot at regaining power without the support of the latino community. So another member of the gang of eight, Robert Mendez summed it up. First of all americans support it. Secondly latino voters expect it. Third the democrats want it and fourth republicans need it. Jennifer and they do need it. In the last election the republicans lost the latino vote badly. The democrats won among latinos, 71 to 27 . Thats what is known as a crashing defeat. Here is why. Remember this . I think the american way is not to give taxpayer subsidized benefits to people who are broken our laws or are in the United States illegally. Of course we build a fence and we do not give instate tuition credits to people who came here illegally. Jennifer that went on and on, and we know how that turned out for them. Latino made up 12. 5 of the overall electorate and they would have had even more of an impact if all of the eligible hispanic voters had voted. Because all of them make up 17 of the total u. S. Population and just 10 of the voters this year. So they are punching below their weight. So pew estimates that that voting block is going to double in size over the next generation. It is a huge number. Another member of the gang of eight, senator john mccain seems to have gotten the message. Ill give you a little straight talk. Look at the last election. Look at the last election. We are losing dramatically the hispanic voted, which we think should be ours for a variety of reasons, and we have got to understand that. Jennifer actually this is the first time that john mccain has signed on to any of the president s top legislative priorities. The president says he likes the blueprint from this gang of eight, so despite earlier reports that the president would submit his own proposal today he said that he would be backing the senator, and that decision came after a private meeting with democratic members of the congressional hispanic caucus. Cnn reports that those members urged the president not to unveil his own legislation for fear of compromising this these delicate bipartisan talks. Jay carney the spokesman of the house with seems to confirm that that happened. Im not going to negotiate legislative tactics from here but we will be working with congress, with both houses both parties to help bring about a result that is a detailed specific bill that can win bipartisan support in congress and that this president can sign. Jennifer so its going to start in the senate with the bipartisan gang of 8, and it is still going to have to go to the house, but it still might have a chance if boehner can get his caucus on board. And john boehner released a statement saying. But learning about the issue is not on the agenda for the truly rabid right. Of course roll out rush limbaugh, here he is speaking for that wing of the republican party. I dont know that theres any stopping this. I i mean its up to me and fox news and i dont think fox news is that invested in this. I dont think theres any Republican Opposition to this of any majority consequence or size. Jennifer except for maybe rush. Joining me via skype is matt baretto, and were by Clarissa Martinez de castro. She is the director of Civic Engagement and immigration at the National Council of la raza. Thank you both so much for being here. Thank you. Thank you. Jennifer you bet. Let me start with you clarissa what im im curious about the psychology what was the status for having the president back off of his own proposal and instead support the senators proposal. First of all the president is still going to nevada tomorrow and delivering a speech that we all expect will have a very aggressive and forward lean on the issue of immigration. Giving these senator space to come forward to these proposal is if you are motivated by Real Solutions we all know we need to get a deal to the president s desk. And it was important to do that. Jennifer yeah im im glad to see that you can you know, set your ego aside and allow the senate to come forward with something that is by partisan, and if the president lobbed his own plan in that, who knows what would have happened. Matt, are you worried that jan brewer and other borderstate officials will end up vetoing, essentially these immigration measures by having to certedfy . Yeah i think you have hit on exactly what was the biggest troubling point in this framework. This clause that says there must be contingent upon securing the borders is something we have heard for a long time. And in poll after poll latino voters have said what if we have to wait until the borders are secure they have said with strong voice thats a sham. Thats a farce. And the president has outlined very clearly that there has been great increases in securing the border over the years, and unless there is an observable metric, i think thats the biggest question mark or worry about this framework that has been unveiled. Jennifer there was some discussion about whether the role of those border state officials would be advisory or whether they would have veto authority. Do you have a sense of that either one of you . Clarasy and ncr have been doing great outreach on this, so she may have a better sense. But i would worry about giving any of those governors in the border states the ability to veto this. Jennifer right. I think the reservation of governors on the border states is important. And it should be in an advisory role, and at the same time what we have been assured about, is that we are this proposal is about being serious and not playing political games. So it is important for border governors to be part but at the same time not become political football, and not be something that keeps moving the markers away and away and away. We know most of the benchmarks and markers that have been discussed in the past have been met. Joy so apart from sortfying that the border is secure issue, what in this are you most hopeful about . And what are you most concerned about . What should we be watching for in addition to that border issue . Governor you mentioned one of the things that i find a lot of hope in and it is that little word that is so seldom prevalent in washington circles these days and its bipartisan. The fact that you have what is a very solid group of senator coming forward with a bipartisan platform for a real solution to immigration is very significant. And it is a bipartisan platform that confirms that legalization with a path to citizenship is on essential part to the solution. That gives me hope. Obviously the road ahead is going to continue to be difficult, and were going to need to build the pressure and political space for members of both sides of the aisle to take this step forward. Jennifer the path to citizenship was an amazing and hugely important aspect to this. One of the paths to citizenship, matt appeared in a bill that amy clowe boucher and warren hatch had which would allow green cards to be attached to Stem Technology engineering and math degrees. Was that provision folded in to todays bill. It sounds like it. But i would like to see that expanded. Why not reward all of these immigrants who are working hard and do want to stay and contribute to america, but it looks like that has been folded into this decision. Broadens the base of immigrants and creates a opportunity for people who are already here who are already really americans to take that next step. Jennifer so from your perspective, matt what are you most concerned about other than on the issue of border certification . What should we be looking at from your perspective Going Forward . There was one other footnote they think needs more clarification, and that is what is the sequencing in terms of legal statute and the opportunity to get a green card and apply for citizenship. There is probationary temporary status and once people come out of the shadows and register we want to create certainty that theres not going to be the rug pulled out from under those folks. And we want to find out once people come forward and they receive some protection, that they are not left in limbo for too long in this probationary status. So i would like to see more clarification there, and make sure that is tightened up. Jennifer all right. You guys very interesting, very encouraging. Well be keeping our fingers crossed, and i know youll be working the grassroots to make sure it really happens. All right. Thank so much for joining me in the war room. Coming up long held up as a symbol of everything good about america, the boy scouts today really live up to that reputation. Plus, the very idea of fundraising still sends a cold shiver down by spine, and i dont even have to do it anymore. Its a fulltime job for people who already have fulltime jobs and thats a real problem. And later the president and the secretary of state are two of the most influential people on the planet. So of course what is the most pressingngngngngngngngngngngngngngngngngngngngngngngngngngng alright, in 15 minutes were going to do the young turks. I think the number one thing that viewers like about the young turks is that were honest. They know that im not bsing them with some hidden agenda, actually supporting one party or the other. When the democrats are wrong, they know that im going to be the first one to call them out. They can question whether im right, but i think that the audience gets that this guy, to the best of his ability, is trying to look out for us. Very, very excited about that and very proud of that. Beltway politics from inside the loop. We tackle the big issues here in our nations capital, around the country and around the globe. Dc columnist and four time emmy winner bill press opens currents morning news block. Well do our best to carry the flag from 6 to 9 every morning. Liberal and proud of it. Jennifer big news today from the boy scouts of america. The group is considering ending its decades long policy banning openly gay scouts and scout leaders. This is about 23 years too late for former eagle scout james dale. In 1990 james who was then at student at Rutgers University in new jersey was kicked out of the boy scouts after the organization learned that he was a member of rutgers gay straight allowance. He was bluntly told that avowed homosexuals were not allowed. James filed suit and the Supreme Court eventually ruled against him and for the scouts in the year 2000. Tonight im very pleased to welcome james inside the war room. James, how are you . Im doing great. Thank for having me. Jennifer you bet. Did you ever think there would be a day where they would be talk about allowing openly gay boys and scouts to be in the organization. Of course i thought this day would come. Unfortunately it has taken a long time but it is a step in the right direction. Jennifer it certainly is. Local chapters can still be able to decide for themselves whether to allow gay scouts. Do you think this decision by the National Boy Scouts goes far enough . The fact when there was an anti gay policy as there still is today, the antigay policy was topped down saying that even a local troop couldnt allow a gay youth member or leader in their ranks. So any policy ending discrimination should be able to come from the top down. Jennifer well, so of course you would expect this that the reaction was swift, so tony perkins says that the boy scouts should not give in to bullying of homosexual activists. What is your response to that. Mr. Perkins never has anything nice to say about anybody. I wish him well and i wish him so well that i wish he would stick to matters he actually knows about. It was a policy change when they started excluding me and other people in 1990. When you look to the inauguration last week and the pets ema bracing civil rights for gays and lesbians, the boy scouts are far behind where america is today. Jennifer you raised this you never thought you would hear a president use the word gay, and talking about stonewall and the president being in favor of gay marriage, and eliminating dont ask dont tell. How much do you think of a difference a president makes in a decision like this for the boy scouts . Do you think he gave them coffer or maybe pushed them a little bit to be able to open up the boy scouts to gay leaders and scouts. I dont think that singular act was what tipped the scales. I think i has been a steady progress over the last 23 years, that americans are understanding you cant vilify and demonize their sisters and brothers and children anymore. And it isnt all that radical anymore. The majority of americans also agree with the president in Marriage Equality for people. The boy scouts were behind the times. Its wonderful to have a leader like president obama, but this really was a Grass Roots Movement that started with people like you and me moms and fathers that are speaking out against this type of discrimination. Jennifer there were several united way groups and corporations that stopped giving money to the scouts because of the ban on gays. A cynic might ask is this an optics thing, a financial move or do you think the boy scouts really have evolved . I think the people in the boy scouts have evolved, whether the leadership the paid scouts in texas whether they have evolved . I dont know. I think its important that they come out aggressively and welcome all boys. Whether or not they have had a change of heart or whether it just hit them in the Purse Strings enough probably it was both of those. Also there was probably a lot of pressure from the board members. The chairman of at t is part of the board, and he supports this. Jennifer absolutely. Tell us what it was like for you to be kicked out of a group that you had been a member of you were an eagle scout. Did i get that right . On eagle south and assistant scout master when i was expelled. Jennifer and you were told you were morally not right. What was that like . It was horrible. I didnt expect the boy scouts to fully embrace it but i thought they would be like my parents that it would take them a little while, but they would realize i am still a good person. But if i could do it all over again, i would do it just the same way, because the last 23 years have been pretty incredible for civil rights. Jennifer they have been. And you can take some credit. Obviously every step that is made is a ripple towards justice. Thank you so much for your leadership. Thank you. Jennifer up next want to get unanimous consent on something from both house of congress . Then ask them all if they hate fundraising. It is the pain of every politicians existence, and it is only getting worse. She gets the comedians laughing. Thats hilarious . And the thinkers thinking. Okay, so theres wiggleroom in the Ten Commandments is what youre telling me. Shes joy behar. And current will let me say anything. Only on current tv. Jennifer you are back inside the war room. Im jennifer granholm. So fiveterm iowa senator, tom harkin surprised many in washington by announcing after 40 years in congress he is calling it quits. Typically when a senator retires, he or she talking about spending more time with their family, or the desire to write a book or teach. But tom harkin not so much. He said this. Now when hark inlast ran in 2008, he raced 9. 2 million, a lot of money. Fundraising dialing for dollars as washington insiders call it it takes up a lot of time. Look at this graphic. The average senator spends four hours a day on fundraising calls, compared to just two hours on the floor, and one to two hours meeting with constituents. Coming to us from washington to discuss the outsized influence that money still has over politics is mother jones magazines dark money reporter andy kroll. Andy welcome back inside the war room. Its great to be back. Tell us this insane amount of time that senators and members of congress have to spend fundraising. Does it not prevent legislation from getting passed . Without a doubt it presents legislation from getting passed. You can count the ways in which it gets in the way of congress doing business. For one, as you pointed out, they spend so much of their time sitting in these drab cubicles and they have a list in front of them, and they go down the list and say, i hear you have given to me in the past do you want to give me some more. They spend, as you noted, as much as four hours, maybe five hours a day asking for money. They have their tin cup out there. In the meantime business is not getting done on the house or senate floor, or they dont want to go to the floor because their new donor doesnt have interest in this new legislation. So money gets in the way in a number ways from folks here in washington just doing their job. Jennifer people imagine it is a glamorous existence being a senator, but truly, people if you saw what it is like to have to spend all of your time in this cramp drab place looking at blinder of not women but binders of donors. Andy is there anything please tell me being done to clean things up . There are a lot of things being talked about to clean things up. There are a lot of great ideas out there. There is a Campaign Going on right now called get people in get money out, which is essentially legislation, rules changes, its actions that president obama could take that would curb the influence of these big money donors the Sheldon Adelsons of the world. And at the same time trying to urge raising money from small donors donors. But unfortunately as you mentioned, when you have candidates that are so addicted to the system that we have now, whether they like it or not, they buy in, and they are fully immersed in it. All they care about is staying in office, raising the money they need the incumbents here they dont want a system that challenges their place in washington jennifer nor do they want to spend all of their time fundraising. I can tell you that. If we can get rid of Citizens United or overturn it they would not want to do it. Now you interviewed a guy, named, i think charles spies who was founder of the romney super pac, and he says the experience taught him a lot. What did it teach him . Charles spies the superpack he ran for mitt romney raised more money and spent more money than any super pac ever in the two elections we have had. He knows what he is talking about. I asked him to look into his crystal ball. And he believes everybody is going to have a super pac, if not in 2014 in 2016. It will be super pacs in every Congressional District in every state jennifer oh my god you are killing me it is going to be wherever. Jennifer it is horrible [ laughter ] jennifer were seeing it today there were a couple of super pacs that were created to keep chuck hagel from being confirmed as secretary of defense. What can you tell us about those. Right. I mean these super pacs need something to do in the off season so to speak so they are weighing in on the nomination fight over senator chuck hagel, the president s nominee to be the defense secretary. And they are filling the airwaves with attack ads. There is this supposed pro lbgt group, but it is closely allied with a very deep red republican jennifer thats what i thought. The details are sketchy but [overlapping speakers] jennifer all right. Andy and i hate to leave on this terribly depressive note. All im going to say is we want to purge you of reporting on dark money and hopefully if we get a Supreme Court composition that makes this up again, you can start reporting on other things. Thank you, andy kroll. Thank you. Jennifer and now to a story were not leaving behind. In the 45 days since the tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary School now at least 1,305 americans have died as a result of gun violence. The rough estimate from slate magazine. The toll for one chicago family cannot get any worse. Shirley chambers has lost all four of her children to gun violence. On saturday her 33yearold son, ronnie was shot and killed as he sat in a parked car. What did i do wrong . You know . I was there for them always and i made sure they had we didnt have everything we wanted but we had what we needed. Ronnie and his two brothers and a sister have all had their lives cut short way too soon. 18yearold carlos 15yearold latoya, 23yearold jerome, all died in separate shootings since 1995. The familys loss is hard to fathom, but we cannot ignore it. Shirley sold the Chicago Sun Times that we need suffer gun laws. No mother should ever bury all of her children due e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e [ piano plays ] Troy Polamalus going deeper. And so is head shoulders deep clean. [ male announcer ] with 7 benefits it goes deep to remove grease, gunk and flakes. Deep. Like me. [ male announcer ] head shoulders deep clean for men. Jennifer all right. Its monday, and that means that cenk uygur and the young turks have three days to stir up trouble for tonights show. What is on tonight. Well bring in the counsel general for israel to talk about their elections. What does it mean for israel and perhaps iran. And then couple of other conversations that are interesting. The person running in Jesse Jacksons district a republican who happens to be african american, and well talk to him about the gun violence in chicago as well as other topics. And someone who is an undocumented immigrant but is a lawyer here or wants to be a lawyer here and has passed the bar here in california. How immigration will affect him. Jennifer okay cenk i couldnt hear anything you said because i was looking at your haircut. Does you have the George Clooney thing going on . Oh yeah this has George Clooney written all over it. [ laughter ] jennifer all right. Now the best of the rest. The violence against women act comes up for vote in the senate next week. Its expected to pass with brood bipartisan support. But the question is does it have a chance of making it through the house . Last year the act expired for the First Time Since its inception, and thats because house leaders would agree to many issues. The new bill drops a provision to provide visas to those undocumented immigrants who are victims of domestic violence. Lets hope that is enough change to reauthorize the act. And then for all of your political junkies that the senate was only able to pass this watered down filibuster last week we have some good news. Jeff merkley wasnt able to get his ban on the silent filibuster through, but it does turn out that he was still pretty handsomely rewarded for his efforts. The committee announced that it has raised over 30,000 for merkleys 2014 reelection campaign. 30,000 over the weekend. Sometimes i guess it does pay to fight the good fight even if you lose. And speaking of money in politics when the democrats left charlotte after the last convention, they left behind a whole lot of money. A Study Released today found that the dnc pumped 163 million into the regions economy. Not bad for a few days of having your city overrun by rabid democrats. Just one more reason to invite us democrats to your town every four years, or even every day. And president obama hon in order the reigning nba champion the miami heat today. The president did once dream of becoming a probasketball player before deciding that he should leave it up to taller more talented players, and pursue a career in public service. For their part the miami heats players were pretty excited to get a glimpse inside the house. Lee brawn james tweeted this. I think they both made the right choices. Up next our good friend Donnie Fowler will tell us what jeb bush and marco rubio arent getting along. And then the great Brett Ehrlich. Coming up how is fox news getting over the loss but when joint pain and stiffness from Psoriatic Arthritis hit even the smallest things became difficult. I finally understood what serious joint pain is like. I talked to my rheumatologist and he prescribed enbrel. Enbrel can help relieve pain, stiffness, and stop joint damage. Because enbrel, etanercept suppresses your immune system, it may lower your ability to fight infections. Serious, sometimes fatal events including infections tuberculosis lymphoma, other cancers, and nervous system and Blood Disorders have occurred. Before starting enbrel your doctor should test you for tuberculosis and discuss whether youve been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. Dont start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. Tell your doctor if youre prone to infections, have cuts or sores have had hepatitis b have been treated for heart failure, or if, while on enbrel, you experience persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness. [ phil ] get back to the things that matter most. Ask your rheumatologist if enbrel is right for you. [ doctor ] enbrel, the number one biologic medicine prescribed by rheumatologists. The irs is going after political groups hiding behind the social welfare label. Jennifer here is what we know when it comes to gun safety in congress. President obama wants gunun safety legislation. House republicans dont like president obama, but House Republicans do like police officers. So with that in mind today, president obama invited 13 Police Chiefs and sheriffs to the white house to discuss gun violence. If Law Enforcement officials who are dealing with this stuff every single day can come to some basic consensus, congress will be paying at attention to them and well be able to make progress. Jennifer progress that will be novel, but if the senate can move ahead with Immigration Reform, i say anything is possible. Joining me now is democratic strategist Donnie Fowler. Welcome back. Good to be here. Jennifer good policy to have the chiefs and sheriffs come and make the pitch on gun safety. There is no more credibility. Jennifer i totally agree. They are certainly the ones that the American People want to hear from. Jennifer the congress cant seem to meet a deadline on fiscal stuff. They have this immigration thing that is teed up. Do you think that gun safety is going to get something done . Im an optimist. I believe that washington, d. C. Can walk and choose gum at the same time. Jennifer what are you dunking . [ laughter ] there are several issues that washington is dealing with. Budget and economics, immigration and gun violence and every side of every part of those debates is setting the stage now for the conversation coming over the next few months. It doesnt mean that congress is going to vote on gun violence and immigration in the same day or even week. But they are have a conversation about these important issues now. And congress will hopefully will get to these issues by the time we get to the summer. Jennifer i totally think they will. Marco rubio is now one of the gang of eight that is talk about immigration. And there has been a rivalry that has seemed to erupt out of florida, because jeb bush has been talk about rational immigration policy as well. What can you tell me about that rivalry . We have the bush dynasty, which most americans arent very happy with. Jennifer is jeb going to run in 2 he is still doing what he needs to do to make the decision. Marco rubio is doing the same thing. So you have these two floridians, you have a generational divide, a 42yearold United States senator, and a 60year old former governor of florida. But do we need another bush . Jennifer i know 2016 is a long time away but there was an interview from 60 minutes it is never too long for the media. Jennifer it is never too long. Lets listen to a sound bite of that interview. You guys in the press are incorrigible. I was literally inaugurated four days ago. [ laughter ] and you are talking about elections four years from now. Jennifer i loved that sound bite. But they were laughing so hard. But the idea though of rubio versus clinton or bush versus clinton. That is sort of an interesting dynamic, isnt it . Bush might have the gav tas to stand up. If it is Hillary Clinton the republicans might want to say we got to get jeb bush in. Republicans have a history of going for the next in line. You look at george bush senior bob dole george bush, jr. , they pretty consistently pick the establishment. If they keep their pattern, the tea party has not proven they can win in the big election. So it is the next in line or is it the upstart, the tea party legacy . Jennifer it will be interesting to see. It may not be marco rubios time yet, but it is going to become more and more because of the demographics were talking about. Thats right. Jennifer lets touch on Climate Change. Today in texas churches are holding Prayer Services for 2,000 local residents who are losing their jobs because of the drought that caused a meatprocessing plant to close. Obviously this is hitting home. How soon before especially in the south there has been more Climate Change deniers they need to face dee nighal. Jennifer how many pieces of evidence will it take before we see people accepting the fact that Climate Change is real. The earth is hotter than it has been in 15 million years. So the science is overwhelming. The problem that scientists are having is they will not say that every single big weather event is absolutely caused by Climate Change and so i dont know when we are going to reach the Tipping Point where people say its not just Mother Nature or god its actually something were doing. Jennifer its cumulative events clearly as a result of that. Yeah there has been a little bit of shift maybe will there be more. Jennifer unfortunately we have to go. Up next i have a soft spot in my heart for governors, so i have nothing to say about sarah palins decision to leave fox news, unfortunately Brett Ehrlich does. And he is next. I think the number one thing that viewers like about the young turks is that were honest. They can question whether im right, but i think that the audience gets that this guy, to the best of his ability, is trying to look out for us. What we need are people prepared for the careers of our new economy. By 2025 we could have 20 million jobs without enough College Graduates to fill them. Thats why at Devry University were teaming up with Companies Like cisco to help make sure everyone is ready with the knowhow we need for a new tomorrow. [ male announcer ] make sure americas ready. Make sure youre ready. At devry. Edu knowhow. Cook what you love and save your money. Joe doesnt know it yet, but hell work his way up from busser to waiter to chef before opening a restaurant specializing in fish and game from the great northwest. Hell start investing early, hell find some good people to help guide him, and hell set money aside from his first day of work to his last, which isnt rocket science. Its just common sense. From td ameritrade. Jennifer seems everywhere sarah palin goes she makes news. And it turns out she makes quite a bit of news when she leaves as well. Shh bretts talking now. Stop the presses. If it still exist in the digital world. Sarah palin is no longer at fox news. [ surprise music ] i dont know whether i should be happy that shes gone or afraid wonder where shell strike next. Even though her reign of antiterror is gone, we cobble her best moments for cringing moments. When i hear barack obama especially when he lectures about ethics and civility, its nauseating. Check this out bodyguard youre fired. And i hope his wife kicks his okoli and sends him back to the dog house. Reporter perhaps more