Transcripts For CURRENT The War Room 20130306

During the siege at some point. Thats the unforgivable thing is that these kids never had a chance. The fbi was also left to account for its own failures. It had tragically misread the cult and made a series of disastrous tactical mistakes. Byron sage we grossly underestimated the extent of control that david koresh held over all of those people. Clint van zandt i think the federal government failed. I think koreshs master plan was carried out by david koresh. And i think we fbi, atf, other agencies i think we facilitated that master plan. We didnt nail him on the cross, we burned him to the ground. Michael this is the war room. Im michael shure. Senator rand paul took to the floor today for an honest to goodness Old Fashioned style talking filibuster it was a repetitive rambling and selfserving gesture that. Well also made some sense. [ theme music ] michael Stormy Weather rolled into washington today adding just one more blast of holt air in a town that pretty much runs on it but in true d. C. Fashion the rough weather was full of sown and furry, but signified, well not much. First there was rand paul hair all tussled launching himself into the eye of the storm over drones and then refusing to leave. And finally there was the actual winter storm which followed congresss lead and didnt do much before it left town and head straight for the tropics. First up, though dronerelateds. The Tea Party Wing of the senate decided today was the day to prosecute the president s drone policy. It started with ted cruz attacking eric holder asking if they could use a drone to kill someone sitting in a cafe. The way you have described this person, it would not be appropriate, would not be something i find it remarkable that you still will not give an answer on the constitutionality let me be clear. Translate it to no. All right. No . Then i am glad after much gymnastics, im very glad to hear that it is the opinion of the department of justice that it could be unconstitutional to kill an american citizen on u. S. Soil without a threat. Michael he has the dubious distinction of being the one senator on the losing side of every vote taken this session. Then rand paul jumped into the drone storm. I rise today to begin to filibuster John Brennans nomination for the cia. I will speak until i can no longer speak. Michael turns out his stamina is not all that great, though, because two hours later, paul had cruz and senator mike lee step in for a bit while he rested his voice. At the fourhour mark others joined in to help at the fivehour mark others joined in. That is pretty sorry performance come bared to Bernie Sanders tax cut fillibusterfilibuster. Even sanders has nothing on Strom Thurman who spoke for over 24 hours opposing the civil rights bath. But back to todays nut jobs unlike ted cruz rand paul has actually voted for the president s most controversial nominees like chuck hagel, which goes to show his droning on about drones today was not about unmanned aircrafts or john brennan, it was all about rand paul. Joining me now is David Shuster. He has the latest from new york. David of course thanks for being back on the show. Michael shure great to be with you as always. Michael how much of this was grandstanding, and how much was it really about drones . Think about it this way, based on the senate rules of procedure for today and again tomorrow, any one senator could have raised their hand and said i object and at that point harry reid would have needed 60 votes to actually proceed to a vote on the nomination. But there are a number of republicans who were opposed to the brennan nomination there were others who were not sure they were willing to have a vote until the administration produced documents on benghazi. So harry reid spent all day long talking to republicans saying we need the cia director in place lets get to a vote and he could never ryshe a deal with the republicans to file to say hey, we got 60 votes, and without having that 60 to proceed, ranked rand controlled the floor, ka when harry reid went to him late in the day, ranked rand said, no im going to keep going. So he had to go through the same procedure tomorrow. Again, its until friday where harry reid has another set of things he can do. Michael so harry reid could actually end this if he chooses to end it . Yeah, harry reid can end it if he gets the 60 votes, but a number of republicans were enjoying the whole spectacle, so they wanted to extract certain promises from heir on other issues, so they said according to senate rules this has to ripen, and its not until friday when you can have the straight up or down vote. Michael senate rules are unbelievable. So rand rakd said if the president or the attorney general will clarify if they will not kill americans on american soil, i will yield. Is it strange that i agree a little bit with what he is saying . I thinks a certain point there. If eric holder is willing to go there, what is keeping the Justice Department from saying look, we have an ironclad promise that we will give you that we will never use drones to kill americans on american soil who are not posing imminent threat. The problem there are agencies that say, no there are circumstances when the government could possibly use drone strikes, and eric holder has said in the past one of those examples might be an attack like pearl harbor. So you have this whole sort of controversy of eric holder being stuck. Rand paul could have filibustered just by raising his hand and saying filibuster, but rand paul was smart enough to say filibuster, and oh by the way, im going to talk to get some attention. Michael thanks to David Shuster of current tv always the smartest guy in the room. Now to the issue that is really a lifethreatening national disaster, thats guns. The 82 days since gnutown, 2,496 people have died from gun violence. Thats the equivalent of more than one newtown tragedy every single day sense the tragic event. Today, Gabby Giffords called at attention to the issue, and urged congress to act. Be bold. Be courageous. Please support background checks. Michael the tragic thing is, this issue is being completely overshadowed by all of the other madup washington storms. Late this afternoon, background check talks ended in a stalemate. And background checks with the proposal that had looked most likely to pass. Democrats might now press on on their own. The east coast storm didnt turn out to be as bad as predicted, but that didnt stop the House Committee to cancel the hearing on wait for it Climate Change and extreme weather. Yeah, i said that right f. Back in 2010 they cancelled a hearing on Climate Change because of another big storm and the same thing happened in 2007. Back then Wolfe Blitzer called it ironic, and no its just kind of sad. House republicans will be right back where they started come september just in time for hurricane season. Coming up, well talk about the legal side of the drone debate with alan dershovitz, plus the air force, how do you fix an image without first mixing the institution. Plus where the spanish moss sprawls, they are fixing for an lex election. Its wednesday night in the war room, and were just getting started. Stay with us. Billy zane stars in barabbas. Coming in march to reelz. To find reelz in your area, go to reelz. Com lobsterfest is the king of all promotions. Theres nothing like our grilled lobster and lobster tacos. The bar harbor bake is really worth trying. [ male announcer ] get more during red lobsters lobsterfest. With the years Largest Selection of mouthwatering lobster entrees. Like our delicious lobster lovers dream, featuring two kinds of lobster tails. Or our savory, new grilled Maine Lobster and lobster tacos. My favorite entree is the lobster lovers dream. Whats yours . Come celebrate lobsterfest and sea food differently. [ male announcer ] visit redlobster. Com now for an exclusive 10 coupon on two lobsterfest entrees. Alright, in 15 minutes were going to do the young turks. I think the number one thing that viewers like about the young turks is that were honest. They know that im not bsing them with some hidden agenda, actually supporting one party or the other. When the democrats are wrong, they know that im going to be the first one to call them out. They can question whether im right, but i think that the audience gets that this guy, to the best of his ability, is trying to look out for us. Michael welcome back to the war room. Several sen trors up in arms over an air force general who was able to single handedly overturn the sexual conviction of an air force officer. A jury of five kearns threw him out of the air force, and sentenced him to jail. Then Lieutenant General Craig Franklin reversed the decision saying there just wasnt enough evidence. The reaction has not been kind. Here is senator Claire Mccaskill at a hearing yesterday. And with a stroke of a pen last week, a general dismissed those charges against him. A general with no legal training, a general that had not sat in the courtroom, and this general did it against the advice of his legal counsel. Now my heart is beating fast right now. I am so upset about this. As we are trying to send the signal to women now the victim in this case wasnt a member of our military. I question now whether that unit that that man returns to whether theres any chance a woman who is sexually assaulted in that unit would ever say a word. Michael joining me now is a war room favorite christine pelosi. She chairs the California Democratic party womens caucus as a former District Attorney of San Francisco she has always prosecuted Sexual Assault cases. Christine thanks for being here. You tweeted about this, you said that chuck hagel has to fix this, right . What specifically should he do . First the air force should be ka mended for having a women leader. When chuck hagel was nominated, senator boxer, and senator [ inaudible ] sent him a very clear message, we want to know what you are going to do to help stop military Sexual Assault and rape, and chuck hagel said he was going to solve the problem. Now over to you, secretary hagel, solve the problem. Do a review. Reinstate the conviction and take a very careful look at why it was that the general acted the way that the general acted. And put steps in place so one person cant throw out a jury. Michael and is that typical of military justice as we know it . The generals can just go ahead and do that . He could revisit that. In the interest of justice the secretary can go ahead and overrule the ruling of the person underneath him, but in the interest of broader justice, because we have a host of females on the committee who are dedicated to solving this problem, we have to say zero tolerance means zero tolerance, fix this case and all of those cases, the estimation of 19,000 a year in the pentagon most of them arent even going to trial. Michael the defense department, their own numbers are showing one in three military women are sexually assaulted. But then hagel starts on the job. He has the budget problem issue where does this fit in . How can he prioritize Something Like this . This is a top priority you have to protect and defend the service men and women who are protecting and defending the country. How can our military be a force for peace around the world, if we dont even acknowledge violence against women in our own military. Michael absolutely. Thats clear. And you mentioned thethe invisible war at the top. I want to look at a clip from this film and how hagel sees this. They let this man get away with everything but murder. They give him military personnel of the year award. He said you are the third girl to report rape this week. Are you guys all in cahoots . Do you think this is a game . Michael so how does this film impact how the military looks at Sexual Assault. They peeled back the curtain, they took the shame away from the victims and put it where it belongs, which is on the perpetrators, and they made this issue too hot to handle. Some of the women who had been punished for coming forward are now getting more protection. Not only has their cause been embraced bisek tear pen that ta and secretary hagel, but also by members of the house and senate. But we said in the campaign that there was a real problem when it came to military rape in this country, so this is a test for president obama, and secretary hagel. Im confident they are going to pass it, but it is only through the invisible war that we were able to have a cultural shift in this country. Michael right. And it got an oscar and also in the forefront of what were talking about today, and it makes you think of course about funding the arts when you hear Something Like that as well. Lets go to Michelle Johnson she is the Major General who was just given command of the air force. How important of a message does that send to the military . First first of all, everybody should be proud to see such a competent leader taking charge of the air force, second of all, im so proud of her as a woman, and i think it sends a very strong message in terms of zero tolerance, in terms of discrimination against women, lesbians, and discrimination against women in combat. She is terrific. She is inheriting a very very proud institution. Millions of people who have served with distinction and honor. Michael and she is the made of the air force academy. True. However, but the academy is the Training Ground this is where many assaults have occurred before. This is where we set the tone. This is where youre setting course as a member of the air force. This is what is accepted. This is what is not accepted. This is where they tell you what the rules are, and show you where the priorities are, and thats why its so key to have her in charge of the instructors who will be shaping how people serve their entire career. Michael and this story should not be as under the radar as it is and i think by talking about it here, it brings it to the light. Were going to come back plenty of theatrics on the hill today, but at the heart of rand paul filibuster was a legal question. Only on current tv. Break the ice with breathfreshening cooling crystals. Ice breakers. Do you not get a chance to explain yourself in a court of law before you get a hell fire missile dropped on your head . I think we really it just amazing me that people are so willing and eager to throw out the bill of rights and just say oh, thats fine, you know, terrorists are a big threat to us, and, you know, im so fearful that they will attack me that im willing to give up my rights . I think we give up too easily. Michael thats Kentucky Republican senator rand paul railing against the use of drones during his filibuster of John Brennans nomination to head the cia. He says the Drone Program is unconstitutional and raises questions about whether it would allow the government to target u. S. Citizens on u. S. Soil. Joining us now to talk about that Alan Dershowitz joining us tonight. Welcome into the war room. Thank you. Michael attorney general eric holder said that a drone strike against an american could be constitutional. Do you agree with him . Could be constitutional. Thats the danger of answering hypothetical questions. Of course anybody can imagine a situation where a drone stroke would be unconstitutional, if you had a terrorist about to fire a rocket and there is is and the only way to stop them was to fire a drone rocket yes, it would be constitutional. And the bill of rights which i wish rand paul would study a little bit more, every year hundreds of americans are killed by police because they pose an imminent danger and they are shot while fleeing from the scene of the crime, and the Supreme Court has upheld that by virtually unanimous decisions. Of course a hell fire is a greater form of lethal force, but if you can kill a felon who is about to commit a crime against an individual obviously you can kill a potential terrorist who is about to kill hundreds or thousands of people. Michael and following along with what you are saying there you are saying, there are moments when you are able to do it, but should it make a difference if the strike is on u. S. Or foreign soil . No, not under our constitution. Under our constitution, the issue is whether it targets american persons, and thats either citizens or permanent residents who have constitutional rights. And when you have a fleeing felon that is being pursued nobody makes a distinction betweening whether or not the person who has just killed somebody and is shooting into a crowd is an american citizen or not. I think rhetorically and emotionally it may make a difference whether it is abroad or in america, but if you have an american resident who lives in america, he deserves greater protection than that fella who was killed who became part of alqaeda. So the distinctions between american citizen, abroad not abroad, are not as important as the continuum that we create about when it is appropriate to use lethal force to kill somebody who is engaged in imminent dangerous activities. Michael so this is all happening on the floor of congress does congress ultimately have the power to ban the president from using drones to kill u. S. Citizens . Probably not. Probably the president has that power within the war powers and his general executive power, but Congress Certainly has the right to constrain it perhaps to create some kind of a warren requirement, whether it be a judicial requirement, or administrative warrant, but there has to be an exception. If there is an imminent need to do it right now, or many people will die there has to be an exception. I suggest that the center start reading the case law. In israel the Supreme Court of israel set out very clear criteria, they are very narrower than those used by the United States, but they try to bring the use of drones within the rule of law thats absolutely essential. To bring it within the rule of law, but to do that they have to understand the constitutional history, we have a long history of being able to kill people who are in imminent threats without going through a trial. Every time the military kills, it is a nonjudicial execution. During the civil war, obviously we killed american citizens. We have to look back in history and understand this is a difficult nuance problem that requires a nuance solution not just emotional rhetoric. Michael were very accustomed to, when we have new sawns problems in this country to see those problems wind up at the steps of the Supreme Court. Do you see that as the direction that this issue is going now . I dont. Because the United States Supreme Court has backed away from these issues. Chief Justice Roberts believes the standards could be very rigorous. As i say the israel Supreme Court took this issue on, and rendered a very interesting and useful decision which it would be very useful for members of the senate to look at. I hope the Supreme Court takes this issue up. Thats their job but the Supreme Court has been falling down on the job lately and not taking civil libertys cases because they say nobody has standing to bring them. We dont think were going to be targeted, so who has the right to bring that challenge. But short of that, its going to be hard to bring this case to the Supreme Court. Michael thats interesting that they are so reluctant to do that. That is their job, and they are not doing it. And that really is the headline of this conversation. Alan dershowitz thanks so much for being here in the war room. They will be electing a new senator in South Carolina, and the slate of candidates offers a Little Something for everyone. Michael welcome back. Now we will head to the campaign front, when South Carolina republican senator jim demint decamped for the heritage foundation, few could imagine the trail of political dreams he would leave in his wake. South carolina governor, nikki haley appointed republican congressman tim scott to demints seat. That created a free for all in his district. The district hugs the coast from myrtle beach to charleston even though it is nowhere near the appalachian trail, mark sanford is attempting a political comeback. He used to cover the district before withining the state house. Ted turners son teddy is taking a hard push for the republican nomination, but it is not exactly a chip off of the old block. He is making his name for himself as a conservative republican. Over on the democratic Side Business elizabeth colbertbusch is looking like she will get the nomination. Joining us to talk about this is Charleston Post Courier reporter robert behre. Thank you for having me. Michael i cant believe that mark sanford is running. Have people forgotten his affair . They certainly havent forgotten it, but he has done a lot of work in the last three or four years to try to make amends, when the scandal broke he was very active in calling, writing, and apologizing. He did an apology tour when he was still in office as governor and started to mend fences. He showed up at the Republican National convention in tampa this past summer to mend fences and he wrote yet another letter laying out his shortcomings asking forgiveness, and he has even turned this whole incident in 2009 into sort of a Campaign Talk point saying that it has humbled him, and somehow wisened him and given him add perspective. Michael and didnt he even try to enlist his wife to work on his campaign. Yes, she ran his campaigns the first time around and was really kind of the brains. So when they divorced ultimately after the infamous affair and that episode, mark sanford lost more than a wife, he really lost arguably one of his closest political allies. Michael for a time it looked like a possibility of his wife actually running against him. But now that she is not who will give sanford a run for his money . Theres an incumbent lawmaker from a neighboring country, larry grooms who has known a lot of people and i think has got a lot of name recognition. There is also john koon, and teddy turner, and theres one candidate down from the southern end of the district the district was redrawn and now goes down to the georgia border and there is a candidate down there. Among others. Michael so sanford has to anticipate a ton of attacks from his opponents. Take a look at this one from teddy turner. We have come a long way. I know i spent too much, but it was all for you. But okay. Ill keep my promises this time. It will be different. Im sorry for all of the mistakes i have made. Sugar just give me one more chance. Break up with career politicians. The right guy, teddy turner. Michael its a funny ad but is it a good strategy. If you look at the photos at the very end of that ad they are photos of sanford and four other republicans who are Holding Office or have held office, so he is going after essentially all of the politicians who have been elected and serves more than six years or so in office. It is a good strategy, but well see. That ad criticizes these career politicians for spending too much. Ironically that is the one issue that could perhaps propel sanford back into office because he has always been extremely conservative on spending issues to the point he had a reputation of a cheap skate or do nothing in congress because he wouldnt compromise. He often wasnt interested in playing ball and meeting in the middle, and its that very issue i think that is giving him a new political lease on life. Michael it is really amazing that he could in that part of the country and the mind set that we think of conservative republicans that he could have a reawakening. Tell me about colbertbusch. Who is she has a candidate . Well, she is still a bit of an unknown. Her opposition on the primary level isnt very active. She has run for office several times before. A nice man but even politicians who represent the area where he calls home part of the time dont really even feel like they know him. So she is probably she is running in the primary but i think she is really looking ahead to the may 7th general election. She is widely expected to win but she still i think has some work ahead as far as developing a message that will appeal to not only the democrats but the moderate voters who might be open to voting for a democrat this time. Michael well continue to follow that robert behre. Thanks so much for joining us in the war room today. Up next i dont even like to state. I dont even like to think it. But so far this whole sequester thing is playing out pretty well for the republicans. That story is next. [ male announcer ] its red lobsters lobsterfest our Largest Selection of lobster entrees like lobster lovers dream or new grilled lobster and lobster tacos. Come in now and sea food differently. Visit redlobster. Com now for an exclusive 10 coupon on two lobsterfest entrees. Michael youre back inside the war room. Im michael shure. Its happening right now, amidst the snow quester at the jefferson hotel, the president and over a dozen republican senator are having dinner together to talk about how to keep the government running. Its all part of the administrations latest effort to curve bipartisan bickering. Most recently resulting in the sequester. Has the federal government finally decided it is easier to Work Together . Well fine out now with Political Correspondent for politics 365 Jason Johnson and professor of Political Science at hiram university. Jason, welcome backn the war room. Glad to be here. Michael what do we expect to come out of this dinner especially since the president is heading to capitol hill tomorrow to meet with Senate Republicans anyway . I think this is the inside meeting. This is the sort of rehearsal dinner before the real wedding. He is hoping to talk to these senators so they can find some kind of common ground. They can think long term. They recognize the damage that is being done not only to this country, but the republican brand, but he is hoping he will be able to make some progress so people wont be suffering by the middle of the month. Michael does this Charm Offensive work . Mitch mcconnell is not at the dinner tonight. Do you think its easier for him to speak to former colleagues or senator when mcconnell is not there . It is not quite that simple. The Charm Offensive sounds like the Senate Version of mean girls. He has no choice. But this is not new. You cant make friends with people who dont want to be friends with you. And the Republican Party has lurched hugely to the right ever since 2010, the mix between republicans who hate having a black president , and then having a democratic president , and then those who lost the 2012 election, he is dealing with those people. Michael it would literally charming snakes. A Washington Post poll out today found in an almost 2 1 margin americans support cutting the overall budget. So regardless of Party Affiliation thats what people are saying. Doesnt this show why the sequester became such a political issue. Yes and also because all too often those of us in the pundit class promote a false equivalency. Im mad at the democrats and im mad at the republicans. And i blame barack obama for agreeing to the sequester, which was a dumb idea anyway. The president is a terrible negotiator, but it has to do with the fact that the Republican Party does want an balanced approach. The public wants an balanced approach. They want things to be cut, and money saved, but they dont want a meat cleaver, so this is a political issue partially because of obamas wing weak negotiating. Michael thats true. He wanted to compromise. He couldnt get other people to compromise with him. So thats a really interesting way of looking at this whole issue of sequester. I want to switch to a subject we cover here civil rights. Marco macmillan was the first openly gay candidate to ever run for office in mississippi, but police are saying his killing was wasnt a hate crime. They just caught the man responsible. He was murdered. He was burned. He was dragged. This is a barbaric crime. Hate crime is not sandbagging. Its a way of saying when a crime is committed for symbolic purposes, that is Something Else we have to stand up against. Its one thing to say i hate jewish people, but when you attack a synagogue you are saying i am attacking jews in general. And this is an attack against all gay people. And that is something that this country shouldnt stand for. Michael the hate crime legislation and the Voting Rights act, were having these conversations again, but the conversation is they are going in the other direction. The hate crimes legislation is being thrown out here what do you make of that . Well its massive resistance. Theres a massive resistance on a very loud conservative generally racist and homophobic group in this country. It doesnt matter if you agree with homosexuality if you think it is a choice or biological the fact of the matter is nobody in america should be killed because of who they want to have sex with. Or whoever issue happens to be important to america down the road. This is not just about the life of one man cut down in his crime at 34 years of age. This is about is america going to stand up for this case for what happened to Megan Williams who was kidnapped for seven days, the murderers in illinois there has been a massive increase in these kinds of crimes, and we as a country need to stand up against them. All right. Chief Political Correspondent for politics 365 Jason Johnson and professor of Political Science at hiram university, thank you forbing here in the war room. Cenk uygur joining us now to tell us what is coming up at the top of the hour. Im professor of fire and brimstone, which is what im bringing in the next hour. It turns out we disagree on this. I love rand pauls filibuster. Love it. Love it. Clearly grossly unconstitutional claims of authority to be able to execute u. S. Citizens on u. S. Soil without a trial, its an absolute outrage. Know you are going to be on this show, michael, and i cant wait to get at it with you. Michael i look forward it to. Well take a quick break and then get to brett and baseball. I lobbied hard for just baseball, but what can i tell you. Michael William Howard taft was our 27th president and weighed as much as 340 pounds making him by far our most obese commander in chief. His ample belly casts a wide shadow over his other accomplishments. Taft was the first president to throw out a first pitch. He is also credited with originating the 7th inning stretch. The story goes that taft stood up in the 7th inning of a game to stretch and then so did several other people. What a great tail. And now taft getting his just due. He will join as a racing mascot. The mascots race around the warning track at senators home games often violently. So its not a giant head carved into mar bell or the side of a mountain, but at least its a giant head and with that we take advantage of the obvious segue and get to brett ehrlich, which of course is just eating the budget tear back and forth up with a spoon. Everyone just calm down brett is talking