Transcripts For CSPAN3 Women Reporters In Vietnam 20150907

Edie is going there to cover her. At 2 00 this afternoon, they told me, no, no, no, no press. Edilt is covering. I think thats where we start tonight. But if it makes news, you have got to give me a fill. Absolutely. I expect that we will have an absolutely exciting conversation tonight. I want to start by saying one thing. I am not a war correspondent. I am a point correspondent, and i am thrilled, honored and humbled to be with these women tonight. I work out of the point. I have travelled to war zones, but nothing, nothing approaches what these women have done and what so many journalists, regardless of gender, i think you would all agree, men and women did in opening the way to covering battlefields to bringing the stories of american troops fighting in faraway places into our living rooms, into the front page of our newspapers. If nothing else, that era was such a turn in journalism that i probably dont have to explain to anybody in this room. And i thought that if we are not all totally familiar with these womens back dwrounds we would just start by going down the line and having all of you briefly tell us how you came to be in vietnam. Its a faraway place a long time ago. So let me start with you denby. Lets just go down the line for a few minutes here. How did you get there . I got there because i was it seems hard to believe, but someone like in our day that barbara would be a pentagon correspondent because the women of my day worked reporting on women on womens pages. And we reported on things like parties, and gardening and cooking. And we never really made the news because womens lives were so confined that we had our section, but the stories of women werent even news. Because their lives were tiny and circumscribed. So i got very bored at my job, and i was reading papers all the time. And i decided that i wanted to go to vietnam. So when i asked my editors i was the lowest person in that womens section covering the parties the Party Reporter didnt want to cover when i went in and said i want to go to vietnam and be a war reporter. They just about fell out of their chairs laughing. I thought oh, well im just going to go on my own and be freelancer. This you can see it there, but this is you. Yes. If you are not getting it, were going to show you these women as they practiced their journalism in the middle of a war zone. So so what year was this . This was 66. And i was getting ready to go, when the editor of the morning paper approached me and he cycled if i would like to be a reporter. But they didnt pay my way. I had to pay my own way to get there. And he promised me 35 per story. And at the time, i was making 80. That meant if i wrote three stories, that would be a raise. And then after i got there, i was six months later hired as a fulltime reporter. He paid me back for paying my way. Jurate, tell us how you got there. I was working at look magazine as a researcher reading day in and day out coverage of vietnam. And there was nothing else going on at that time. It was the biggest story, and it was my generation covering it. I knew i wanted to be a journalist. And like denby, i asked look magazine to send me. And they said absolutely not, you know, inexperienced and female. And same thing. I quit look magazine, bought my oneway ticket to saigon and showed up as a freelancer. And you had to get credentials. You needed outlets that you were writing for. So i got my press pass, and i was ready to go. Edith . I i had a very different kind of experience because i was working for the Associated Press in san francisco. And i was covering the antiwar movement, among many other things, which was of course a very hot topic. Every year, the ap would give you a form that asked basically what do you want to do when you grow up . And i would say that i wanted to be a Foreign Correspondent. But in the ap, that was really an impossibility because the ap had a Foreign Editor who refused to have a woman on the foreign desk. And that was the prerequisite for going overseas. So in 1971, i had been to europe. I had never been to asia. And with one of my girlfriends, we got one of those incredible pan am around the world tickets where in those days eat your hearts out, you could stop every single place that pan am stopped for the same price. Do you remember what you paid for the ticket . Do you remember what you paid . I think it was it was about it was under 1,000. 999. And it was copied as around the world in 99 days. It was quite incredible. Thats why pan am is out of business. [ laughter ] one of the places they stopped was saigon. So my girlfriend nancy and i decide we are going to go see this war that i had been writhing andb and she was involved as well as a teacher. We went to saigon for four days as war tourists. And the ap stap adopt ee eed f adopted us. What was fabulous, was they took us to the 5 00 follies, which was the daily military briefing. We got to go on a helicopter ride over the delta. And then we got on the plane and went to bangkok. And so you can imagine my surprise the following summer where, again, i had put on my what do you want to do when you grow up form that i wanted to be a Foreign Correspondent to get a phone call from the president of the ap asking me if i wanted to go to vietnam for six months. And the first thing i said to him was, does that mean i have to go work on the foreign desk . He said no, no, no, no, you are just going to go to vietnam. Because we still had the same Foreign Editor and he still refused to have a woman on the foreign desk. Edith, tell me quickly, what year did you join the Associated Press . 1966, in new york city. And still getting the scoops and still beating some people on this podium. Laura, tell us how you came to vietnam. I hitchhiked to vietnam. Vietnam was the last place i ever expected to go. Unlike my wonderful colleagues, i had started college in 1968. I had been to every major protest movement, probably some that e derks ie covered. I was deeply opposed to americas involvement in vietnam. And while i was taking my science requirement in california, i had gone to visit a friend in oregon and was hitchhiking back to the bay area with my teenage sister. We were told by the Highway Patrol that we would be arrested if we didnt leave the interstate. So i said to my sister. I said the next car has got to be it because we just had no other way to get back there. And it was 110 degrees. And she was in a bad mood. And i was thinking, what have i gotten us into . So i see a car coming down the highway. I see fishing poles. Its a green chevy. I think oh, its hippie car. They will stop. The driver of the car turned out to be a pediatrician. And that was who i went to vietnam with two months after graduating from overland. I my plan for my life was to go to law school and get black panthers out of jail. I was deeply committed to social justice issues. And the doctor and i were going he had finished his training and the plan was that he would take a job abroad and we would do that for a few months. So i was home working as a cocktail waitress earning some extra money. I got a call from him at 3 00 in the morning from morocco saying i have been offered a job in vietnam. Do you want to go . I said yes without missing a beat. I went for six months and i stayed for two years. I had to work in vietnam. And the only jobs that paid anything were working for the embassy, which was not on my list of things i could do. And then working for the media. And so i made the rounds to all the news organizations. And it was all i could answer was no. Do you have any experience in journalism . No. Do you know anything about the military . No. Do you speak vietnamese . No. How long have you been in country . Two months. Did you major in journalism . No, i majored in political science. So abc was looking for a radio stringer. And it was 1972. And there were five people who applied. One of whom was denby. And denby was actually qualified for the job. She had a significant track record as a reporter. But she was married to an nbc correspondent. And in that era, that was not possible. And so i was hired. And i was hired by new york. And i was hired because it was 1972 and the New York Times was in the midst of a sex Discrimination Suit and the word was out that we need women in prominent places. So on my very first day at abc, the bureau chief was sitting where edie is, and he looked at me and he said, first words, i just want you to know, that of all the applicants, you were the least qualified. [ laughter ] that was the beginning. And there we are. You know, what strikes me and by the way, very shortly we are going to get to questions. I have microphone stands on either side of the room. So get your questions lined up in a few minutes. What strikes me, you know, john very nicely introduced us talking about in my era we embedded and im sure many of you in the audience have read or seen when you turn your tv on during the years with al qaeda and afghanistan, you would see reporters, you know, standing there or a military base, going out with military. It has come to be, really, the only way during the years of massive u. S. Military involvement that you are allowed to cover them because no longer do they allow what was so common, and so interesting in your era, which is show up, get on a helicopter, show up, and go out in the field. And denby, i was reading that n fact, in one instance in vietnam, you actually went not just to accompany them on patrol, but you walked point, and you called in fires. Tell us tell us about that. I mean, because today, no way. Well, id like to tell you about that. But i think the important thing to bring up, too, is we didnt just go there and get out and cover combat. Once you got there, then the problem became, vietnam was very free. Almost anyone could get accredited. There was no censorship. And once you got accredited, you were free to travel all over, on the militarys dime, the country. But to actually go out with a unit, you needed the unit commanders permission. That was the road block for us. Jurate knows this, too. We were there at the same time. And there were hardly any women there, maybe five, maybe three. Then they would say no to me they said i was 24 then, oh, i would never let you come out because you remind me of my daughter. And you think, holy cow, they would never say that to a man, you remind me of my son, you might get killed. And for me, that was the greatest difficulty in vietnam. And i know for jurate, too, to convince people that we because there was so much prejudice in our era of women not being able to do anything, that they werent capable, and a woman could never report a war. And for me the miraculous thing that happened when i had almost given up was the u. S. Marines let me go out with them. And i was surprised at the time, but then someone reminded me later, the marines love publicity. We all know the u. S. Marine. And they are the smallest branch of the service. So they need money. They need funding. They need to be important. But the things that you describe calling in fire, that would be a violation of journalist ethics, but that was the first marines i went out with, the first people that allowed me to go out to a place where when i arrived they were taking out bodies. And i was like holy cow. I didnt really think id be in this hot of a place. But that evening, the marines we were being shelled. And to combat the people, the north vietnamese that were shelling our position, they were calling in air strikes. They were bombing this cave where the north vietnamese were, and around it. So they asked me to call in the air strike. They wrote it out on paper because the pilots are navy pilots. They cant see whats down below. So they wrote out a script. So i called in the air strike, this female voice saying, you know, all in very technical language to and its a wrong thing for a reporter to do. You shouldnt be involved like that. But i wanted to pay them back for what they did to help me get started. But it was very funny. The navy pilot, when he heard that said, were called girls. Hey, they have a girl down there. How can that be . You know, how did they get a girl there . I suppose though, its somewhat i mean, years later, looking back, it somewhat does Say Something about the lack of resources in that war that people were just beginning to understand very, very tough battlefield for some many Young American troops. Oh, yes. And i think all of you probably experienced that. Jurate, i was reading, and edith and laura, the same thing. And its funny. Across the decades, across the years, what resonated with me when ive looked at their histories and their stories is youve all talked about remembering the faces, the kaleidoscope, seeing i know, laura, you talked about vietnam, saigon, being your hometown. Eddie, you talked about the kaleidoscope. Jurate, you talked about the face. And i just want to say that i that resonates with me, so much about covering vietnam is interesting. Area is a little d. But that resonates because in afghanistan, in iraq i feel as though i know the faces of all the troops ive mechlt i may not know their names, may not remember all their units. I see the faces is and they all come back, and the places come back. And i wonder if, even all these years later, is it still something that resonates with you, seeing it in front of your eyes. Laura, you know, do you feel that vietnam is still saigon is still so much of where your life was . When i said saigon is my hometown, i meant that thats really where i feel like im from. Thats where i did work that i love for the first time. Thats where i met friends that i love. Its where i felt for the first time that i mattered in life. And where my life really began. So, yes, i do feel that saigon is my hometown in some ways. New york city and others. But that was a very ten officer precio tender and precious part of my life. Do the images come back to you . Of course. People say vietnam is behind us. Why should it be behind us . Its in us. Its something we experienced. It was a pivotal part in our lives. Its something i want to remember. I want to learn from. I want to grow from. As for the faces. The faces i wrote a book called slab nell from the heart where i write about people who left letters to the dead at the memorial. I traveled around the country interviewing people who had lost someone in vietnam. I think for me when the face really clobbered me is when i went to see platoon and the opening montage in the film are kids just jumping out of choppers. And i just sat there and wept because they were not only the boys i knew in vietnam. They were the ones i had written about in the book. And i think that was one of the times when i really cried for vietnam. I think what strikes me about the faces now when i see the kids that were sending to iraq and afghanistan is that the faces stay the same. They still have that innocence. They still have that youth. They still have that fear. They still have when they come home, that thousandsyard stare. So i think thats what strikes me about the faces, in a they remain unchanged. They often talk about war as sort of being the business of the young. Isnt it . Yeah. I think id like to see that what was so unique about vietnam and different from current wars is this was a war of draftees. Now, they are military. They are professional. You know, they toe the line. It is a volunteer force. Back then, this was 18yearolds, 19yearolds. I mean, i was 24, and i was an old woman sometimes. They go oh, i thought they were sending a girl, not this and they were green. Some had never been out of their hometowns and small southern cities. They were afraid. They didnt understand the war. They were getting, you know, letters from back home writing about all the protests. And so when you talk aboutfaces, i mean, saw fear, confusion, loneliness. And you know, thats thats really, i think, what everybody knew someone who was in vietnam or had died in vietnam. These wars are very different dont you think. They are. And im looking in the audience. We are delighted there are so many young people with us this evening. If we still had a draft in this country, it would be a very different a very different prospect, i suppose. Jurate, you also can you tell us a little bit about being wounded . Well, you know, caisson was a very big story. And i wrote my rule. Since i was freelance it was very hard to get things in newspapers. Never go where all the press goes. If everybody was up there, i was down in the delta. But this was such a big story. Marines were under siege since the middle of january. I got the assignment from wor radio to interview new yorkers were were in caisson. I hitched a ride on a helicopter. There was very limited press accessibility. And i saw like we always did in vietnam an empty helicopter, blades whirring. Being a girl i had that vachlkt i looked over, i said are you going to caisson, and he said sure, hop on. You got that because you are a girl. And the Public Information officer was furious because he had his roster of washington post, New York Times, upi whatever and i was interviewing some new yorkers. And the shells came in. And we made the fatal mistake of not throwing ourselves on the ground but running for the fox hole. And when artillery shell hits the ground, it explodes this way. So if you are flat unless it lands right on you. So i got shrapnel in my legs, my face, in my back. Whatever. And the pio officer said later, well, she got what she was looking for. And that was notfight quite what i was looking for. Hardly. Well, thankfully, we are past some of of that attitude. But, again, i mean, i just want to impress upon everyone here what you already know. Otherwise, i think you wouldnt be here this evening. The women who are journalists today in war zones have so much to be thankful for for those who came before us. Eddie, one of the things you have talked about is you know, we are talking here both about being women, being women journalists and being journalists. And you talked about, you were there when some of the p. O. W. S came out. And i think there are very few american journalists that can tell that story today. We saul all see the news clips, the newsreel footage things. But you saw them. Yes, i did. And i was lucky enough to be in vietnam before, during, and after the pullout of the last american combat troops. I think a lot of people dont realize that the last american combat troops left at the end of march in 1973. And then the vietnam war went on for another two years fought by the South Vietnamese military with diminishing militarye1ecw Financial Support from the United States until saigon fell on april 30th, 1975. But after the last american combat troops left, i was sent to cover the release of the First Americans who had been held in the south in South Vietnam by the vietcong. And they came in ill never there are some pictures that always stay in your mind. But they came in on helicopters. It was like this whole circle of helicopters that came in and landed at the airport. And these totally bedraggeled american soldiers got off. Some limping. Many emaciated. Some seeming not to know where they were. But at the bottom of the helicopters, when they got off, there was a general standing there. And he saluted every one of them. And what was fascinating was i think at that moment for them of them, anyway, they realized that they were free because they saw that he was an American General. And almost every single one of them saluted back. It was an incredibly moving experience. And you know, you always have to wonder when you are talking aboutfaces and people that you remember how impacted the lives of those young men were. And i guess, among many other things, i have always wondered, were they able to rebuild their lives and to have good families and decent jobs and to really have a decent life . I want to interrupt then and tell an anecdote. Im going to take one second here. I was inside the pentagon working on the morning of 9 11. And as we came to understand the people who perished inside the pentagon, there was a man, older man, civilian, worked for the department of the army. His name was max bilky. You know who max was . Max bilky died in the pentagon on 9 11. Max bilky, as a young army draftee, is listed in American History as the last combat american soldier out of vietnam. And he came home, and he had a good life. Thats good. By all accounts. And he died that morning. So vietnam. I mean, its just ill be the one to say, its just fascinating. Because it is so woven in the fabric of this country. And the journalists who covered it are so woven into the fabric of our profession. You know, let me be the one to ask the trite question. As you look back now laura, i want to start with you. And lets go down the line. Through the prism of history, where did it matter that you were a woman, a female journalist in terms of being denied the options that others had . Lets talk about that. And as you look back, like what edie is talking about, seeing these americans come off helicopters, who on earth cares whether it is a man or a woman covering the story as long as the story gets covers. And where doesnt it matter. I understand its partly looking through the prism of time. Can i ask you i thought about this tonight, what am i going to ask you, what am i going to ask these women, did it matter being awomen woman in vietnam . Well, sometimes yes. And sometimes no. Tell us about those. Arrived so light in the war i was standing on the shoulders who made a real difference. As i mentioned it was not only the women in the New York Times and the sex Discrimination Suit. And people like jurate who fought to have women in the place. I think i knew as a woman i had to earn my place at the table. And there were some things that were a given i would never show fear. I would work as hard as any man. And i would i would never do anything that would embarrass my profession. I felt that very strongly. Did it matter being a woman . Was the coverage different . I think one thing for me being i was in vietnam from the time i was 22 to 24. I was young, and i was always underestimated. So i was always smarter than i appeared. So i was not i was not threatening. So i think sometimes politicians talked to he moo. G. I. S would always talk to me. Vietnamese are not a tall people. So for a woman, you are the same size as the government officially you are interviewing. They are not big tall strapping americans. That was sometimes an asset. I think i dont know what my colleagues think. I think as a woman i was someone who was always more comfortable talking about feelings. So it wasnt it was a natural for me. So if im interviewing a g. I. , ill ask the second and third follow up question. Denby . Well, my thoughts on it were i thought being a woman was important because it showed that women could do this. And even up to the en, like when edie went, her boss, even though we had been there, jurate and i, covering combat and kate webb and other female reporters we were kind of freelancing. I made my way there. Edie was the first who came as a staffer. But her boss wrasse gallagher said no covering combat. And also to the upi reporter stacey wood. He had sent them over there. There was a push to have women covering things. But still you had this overhanging layer. And my experience there, we were always on the edge of getting set back in jurates and my era. And mine happened when i was out in a forward fire base. And william west mooreland, who many of you probably remember now but he was the general in charge of the armed forces in vietnam. He happened to fly in because they had been under fire and a lot of people had died. 36 people had died. It was very bad. So he came to give a pep talk. And he came around i just waited until he was finished talking to the soldiers. And then he came up. And he saw me. And he said oh, what are you doing here . And his family had rented a house near ours in hawaii. And my mother played tennis with his wife. And he said oh, how long have you been here . And then i said oh, two nights. And he said oh. And then he left. And then we heard later that jurate and i and the other the few female reporters that he wanted to close it down for women reporters. He decided then that no women could spend the night in the field. And that meant that we couldnt cover things because its not like you could call uber and say, get me out of here. You know, i have to be home for my bedtime. So thatt women all banded together, and we managed to get that changed. But things i think women mattered because the women of our era were starting to get emboldened. It was the 1960s. What happened to women before us is they would often buy into the myth that you cant do these things. You know . And i was a little bit that way myself. But the 60s are coming, and the times, they area changing. So we were braver and we fought things. And we didnt intend that to matter in the larger scale, but i think it did. Oh, i and start thinking about your questions. Were going to get to questions in about three minutes. And if you dont have one, ill call on you anyhow. Jurate, i mean, what do you think . I think the military at that time was very paternalistic with us. Like denbys story, oh, you remind me of my daughter. And they really would say thing like why arent you write being widows and or fans. They would say okay, you are here, could you just go around the base and pose for photos. Pose for photos with the kids there. There was this connect. We were trying to write about combat. Instead yes, there were show girls in vietnam. And there were also nurses. But reporters, very few. And it was very hard for them to see you as a professional. This is why i mean im sitting here and im just im just awe struck. Because anything we have been able to do in iraq and afghanistan, bosnia, the middle east, the horn of africa really is owed to the women who have gone before. I mean, edie, i suspect that maybe anybody who any American General who told you you couldnt do something might have had a an adjustment made to his personality. I would like to start out by echoing laura and paying tribute to denby, jurate, and mariano and kate webb. Kate webb aqaba captured captured in cambodia. And one of the very few people to come out alive. But i would also like to say that we we were all products of the dawn of womens liberation. We we were that generation that really started to believe that women could do anything that we put our minds to. And in a sense, thats what i think made a difference for all of the women who came of age and into this profession of being war correspondents and Foreign Correspondents starting in vietnam. We as a whole group were actually able to prove that women actually do have what it takes to cover wars and disasters, unlike what aps then Foreign Editor ben bassett believed. Not that were naming names. [ laughter ] i always felt that that i was grateful that i could prove that he was wrong. And that i was able to do it not just in vietnam, but in the many other wars that i went on to cover. The other thing that i wanted to say about women was, you know, just because we were there and we were working hard doesnt mean that at least for me on occasions, on many occasions, i wouldnt use the fact that i was a woman to try and get information and get stories. Because one of the things i learned instantly on arriving in vietnam was there were so few american women there that you could basically talk to any man about anything. And particularly in the military where i actually did not know that much, you could ask them to explain things to you, or you could ask what might sound like a stupid question coming from a man and often would elicit great quotes for a story. I have got no problem with that. I really dont. If they want to cough up the information, thats their problem. Lets go to some questions. I think that you were probably first. Do you want to tell us who you are and who you would like to ask a question of. My name is lee young. Could you tell us if something that you hear from American People and from vietnamese or any other nation countries, the people say about, and how they express their emotion about the wars. About how people today you hear people when you were in vietnam, when you hear the people say, the americans say, or vietnamese, or some other countries. How people feel emotionally. How they feel, and what they see. When they were reporting. What kind of emotions did you hear from the people of vietnam, i think thats your question, about the war when you were there and you were reporting on the war. What did you hear from and what do they feel about you . And how did they feel about you as american journalis covering the war. I can answer briefly because i lived with a vietnamese family in the heart of saigon. They had a little kyrgios store. They lived one floor above me. And i lived on top. But they it was so bizarre. They were just going about their business in thor watch. They were trying to make a living and trying to survive. And somehow they just thought they didnt think of me as anything unusual at all because i was working, too. So we didnt really discuss the war at all. We were just getting through life. I think. Maam im sorry jurate. Please. One of my great, great disappointments about having been in vietnam for almost two years, i did not write enough about the vietnamese people. And i was so focused on the americans and for freelance who it was very hard to get a story published. I regret it tear bleechlt thank good for victoria emerson who went there and day after day wrote about the vietnamese people. A couple of times we went through villages and the devastation and people crying and everything. It was heart breaking to see how much the vietnamese people suffered. Id just like to say that i think i echo what jurate said. There was a tremendous amount of suffering. And one of the stories that i did want to write was about the impact of the war on the South Vietnamese. Because we wrote about all the american casualties. But we didnt write about the massive South Vietnamese casualties. And in order to do this, i had to go and find a South Vietnamese family that had lost this woman had lost either three or four sons. And she had one who was still fighting. She didnt know whether he was still alive. And she was living under the most horrible circumstances in a shack where she didnt even have walls of her own. She had a roof over the walls of the two adjoining huts. And so i think i think that there was a tremendous amount of suffering. But i think a lot depended on the economic class of the people. I think there was a certain middle class in South Vietnam that sort of rolled with the pun punches, and some who made money. But i think a lot of the very poor the poorer people really, really suffered. Maam . My name is peggy lewis. Im with trinity washington university. Jurate we are so proud of you. And so grateful to awful you for being here. I have a number of students and faculty here from the university who are aspiring to be journalists. But i wondered what your thoughts were when you heard Brian Williams embellishing his experience, and you had actually been there . Im sure you had thoughts. Would you share those with us . Im going to leave to it these ladies to decide if they really want to if they want to go that route, its your floor as you wish. And if you dont, i think there will probably be no hard feelings. Anybody want to is that a no thank you . Im not trying to make you Say Something you dont want to say. But im certain that women who had been there covering, to see a man who embellished and really was taken out of anchor chair for the embellishment. Its always that fine line. Does gender really matter . Is it a gender issue . I dont know that it is. But we are delighted you have students here this evening . Are you guys up there in the rafters. Raise your hands. Oh, there you are. Hello. I think its an okay question. I think i agree with barbara. It doesnt have to do with being a man. It would be anyone that would embellish and still have this position of stature and speaking out to the American People. You worry for them and feel sad and think why did you do that. Journalism 101, jack hart, california state university, northridge in the early 1970s. Accuracy, accuracy, accuracy. After that, there is really nothing its not about anybody else. Its about you and your accuracy. So i am not commenting on mr. Williams. Im commenting on journalism, the journalism profession. Maam . Good evening. I am a Political Communications student at gw. Im here with some students. Raise your hands. There is a great book by tim obrien, the things they carried. I dont know if you have heard of it before. It is a fictitious account and a lot of it includes vignettes of thechks that men in the war carried in their back packs, both abstract and concretely. I was hoping that you ladies could share either some things that you brought along with you in your bags as you traveled along or some of the mementos that you picked up along the way. Thats a great question. Did you have did you have a good luck charm . Did you have something you always had with you in the bottom of your ruk . I know it was important to me to still have some kind of femaleness out there. Im 60 all the. Im taller then west more land. Im an amazon walking through the youngels. Fatigues, combat pack, the whole thing. I always wore like a yellow tshirt underneath my fatigues. And i did put on lipstick surreptitiously every now and then. And one of the nicest compliments i ever got after a couple of days on patrol in the rain in the mud, sleeping in a fox hole with somebody, and the guy says to me, maam, i dont know how you do it, but you still smell better than we do. [ laughter ] so i took i was always thinking of eating. When im nervous, i like to eat. And we had c rations then, which were canned. So i would take an onion, and take tobasco. And then i found in saigon there was a little store we all know there, like a little sabar version. And they had canned bogoles. I took a can of wine. I figure if this is going to be my last night on earth im going to have some wine with my feast. I didnt know that. I was also into the lipstick, nail polish, sort of wearing combat fatigues but also trying to look like a woman. And id try and take that wherever i went. And i also tried to sneak along some biscuits and cookies. Stuff that was not part of any kind of rations. I dont remember taking anything with me, but something ive carried or kept is a small helicopter that was made from hospital junk. Some iv tubing, some needle caps. And its a perfectly constructed miniature helicopter with a small rotor. And it was made by a young boy who was i think about 10 who had been shot in the spine from an american chopper. And he was paralyzed. And what he did was create this helicopter from the junk in the hospital. And he was selling it for, you know, 25 cents or whatever to raise money for himself and for his family. So ive always kept that very close by. Its usually on my desk. And i keep it as reminder of what war does. Thank you. Sir . Greechk. Gary thomas. Im just a retiree. First off, i have to reminds denby that the marines are not the smallest service. It is the coast guard. Oh, correct. Thank you. And mahalo im in awe of all of you. Denby, early in your career, you made career decisions about your professional life and personal life that sometimes had to be conflicted and sometimes dealing with the fact that bob was also a journalist, brett was born overseas. Things like that. Can you talk a little bit about for the younger people, how did you make those decisions . How did you judge your professional life, your personal life, and how did you make it all work out in the end. Gary and i know each other from honolulu. She has a wife who is a rear admiral in the u. S. Coast guard. She ran the 14th district on our island of oahu. I think for me, i cant say there was a pattern. I was alone for a long time in vietnam before i was married, reporting alone. And things just kind of fell together. And i always kept working when i was married. And it i dont know how i did it. I didnt have a it wasnt really a conflict. It just a conflict. It just kind of fell along, fell together as i went along. I think one thing that struck me very dramatically was my decision to leave vietnam and to see how seductive war is. I knew i didnt want to be someone who went from one war to the next, and be kind of a war groupie. I couldnt make a life. I wrote once that i wanted roots that went down to the source of water. And at the time, when i was in vietnam, i wasnt sure what that would have meant, and i was too young to be thinking about that. But when i went back to vietnam in 1989, it was the first time, and i travelled with a small group, all the way through the country. I was in saigon, and i did the memory walk of the places i had lived. I realized, there was a moment when it just hit me, i thought of my daughter who was then 8, and i wanted to go home. I missed the life that i had created. I think that was when i really realized that i had done that, that i had somehow chosen or life had chosen me. I didnt want to just go from war to war, and i had to make another life, which i did. But its, you know, the trade offs are always there, and you do the best you can at the time. I see we have a number of young people here, so lets try to barbara, can i Say Something . Please. I think of all of us here, im the only one who actually stayed being a Foreign Correspondent and a war correspondent for 25 years. And i think that it definitely was a tradeoff, particularly for my generation. Right. I think it would have been impossible for me to have covered all the wars and conflicts and gotten on planes and run off all over the world, and to have been married and raised a family. So it was a choice that i made, and i have had an incredible life. But it was a choice that i made. Hi. Im judith. My question is directed to most of you. Many of you had been both reporters before and after the vietnam war. My question is, how did it change the environment for women, both your life before and then coming back afterward . And my question is a little twofold. Also between you and other women journalists after the war, was there a different level of respect or ease because you had the experience or no . No. No, no, no, no. Vietnam was, i remember first coming back from the war, and i was looking for a job in television, which was my experience. It was like, oh, yeah, you were in vietnam, but you dont know film and tape. It was like, oh, that was there, but this is now and you dont you know, there was a time when vietnam just was it wasnt almost heard. I remember when i went home, i was in the drugstore where i had been for years and years. They said, laura, i havent seen you for a while. I said, i was in vietnam for the last two years, and i was living in paris the past few years. Paris . Oh, tell us about paris. For a time, vietnam was erased in consciousness. For me, i agree. Vietnam was the war that everyone wanted to forget. So when i came back, i went back to san francisco. I remember all my friends saying, oh, how was it . Did you have an interesting time . Yes, i did. Well, heres whats been going on while you were away. But professionally, for me, it was very positive because i left vietnam in like august of 1973. Then there was the war that broke out. I was one of by then, working for the ap, and wes gallagher, who sent me to vietnam, then sent me to israel and sent the other reporter to cairo. So professionally, it was a positive because we had proven that women could actually do the job. Thank you. I think, too, one thing, edie is talking about her job, and laura also, but it also is emboldening personally. You think, youve been in vietnam and youve covered that. Then things i didnt really know my profession and my craft, i went from being writing about parties to writing about wars. I needed to learn the craft. I needed to be a police reporter. I needed to cover courts. I needed to do politics. That gave me the guts to do that, even if i didnt understand it and i thought itd be hard. Hi. My name is meg bernhard. Im a student reporting here for the summer, so its awesome to see all of you. Im wondering, was there ever a moment when you were reporting or when youre stationed out in vietnam, when you just really, really wanted to go back home to the u. S. While we were there working, no, i really didnt. You know, i felt that this was such an amazing story. But it was very lonely. And i knew denby was out there, but i didnt know her. We were not friends. There were so few women. And, you know, when i was out on patrol, i was with the guys. There was camaraderie. I felt really, you know, important, engaged, alive. And then after a couple days, go back to my little room in saigon, all alone, no one to really talk with. It was hard. And you really had to say, okay, let me get out of saigon and back on patrol, back where the story was. We have i see a young man im sorry hes on the left. Well probably tie it off with you. Sir . Im sorry. Manners are terrible. Im just trying to learn patience right now. No, no. Its very hard to see. Its all right. Im so sorry. Aloha. I recently just moved here from maui. Graduated in 2012 from the best school west of the rockies. Anyway, my question is twoparted. This is your job, and i understand that, and its an amazing job to have. But there are so many tragedies, so many things that maybe i shouldnt bring up, but its a question i really want to know. How did you stay focused . How did you just like drain everything out and just remember that this is your job and your job is very important, because without your job, we wouldnt know any of the things youve put down in history. Also, i dont know about you guys, but like its kind of hard. I just moved out here sorry you know i think what youre reflecting jump in here wherever you want here. Youre obviously very aware that covering a war, you see a lot of sadness, a lot of death, a lot of fear, a lot of injuries amongst troops. And journalists, you know, ill just say it, and, please, jump back in where you want to, reporters are very famous for, oh, it doesnt get to me. We do the job and push it out of our minds and we just go ahead and do what you know, its our job. Thats why were there. People handle things differently. It would depend on your question is really good. Its very good. It would depend on the temperament of the individual. You wont know it until you get into something really bad, how youll handle it. I remember watching gone with the wind, and watch scarlet walk through a hospital with dead people, and people seeking her help. That was fiction. For me, i found out when i saw something really terrible in vietnam, i did that. I just closed it out. It was automatic. I didnt think about it. It was like a veil, to just keep going and not get deeply not bring it all in, like you were saying. How do you do it . So mine was like a strange thing that happened automatically. But i do think that it comes back. Weve all read about young troops with posttraumatic stress. They tell us its a matter of resilience which is, you know, you acknowledge the stress, you acknowledge what has happened to you, but how do you develop the techniques of resilience, to keep moving . And ill share a story. It was not in a war zone, but it was at walter reid. I walked into the room of a young marine who had been wounded. Were chatting about, where i had been in afghanistan and where he was wounded in afghanistan. He had a very this young marine had done very hard time. I thought i was making a lighthearted remark, something like, i would never be able to be in the area that you were in. It was so hard. It was so dangerous, et cetera. This young man looks at me and says, look, were all afraid. Anybody out there who tells you theyre not afraid, theyre lying. But its that ability, perhaps, to put one foot you know, the soldiers who do this, the marines, the most awesome thing that you see, i think, in a war zone, is, of course, theyre afraid, but they still put one combat boot in front of the other. Thank you so much. I also have i think its important, too, i think one of the things that is very significant is that if theres meaning, if theres a reason to tell the story, ill do anything. And i think that there is among the best journalists i know, a sense of mission and calling. People are doing the work because theyre passionate about it and that carries you, too. I think, yeah, i mean, i think the challenge is always, how do you keep the heart alive. How do you keep the heart open and not get numb. That takes, you know, a lot of work. I think one of the gifts of the reporting and one of the gifts of sort of entering into anything thats hard is that it takes you deeper into yourself. If you can find ways to work through it, it will break you open and break you open into a richer and deeper connection to life. And one of the really great things about great reporting, and i think of gloria emerson, particularly, is being able to capture that emotion that youre watching and translate it into words, into stories that humanize war. And, i mean, none of us are zombies. We all have emotions. The real talent is to be able to put those emotions in a place that you can report on whats actually happening, and then at a time when youre writing or broadcasting, that you can convey the sense of that incident to a broader public. I also have another question, as well. I dont know if you guys are religious or anything, but how did you guys come out of this war . Were you guys did you guys have more strength in your religious resolves, whatever your views are, it doesnt matter. But did you guys come in like, how did you guys come out of this war . Did you guys have more resolve in your religious views, or were you was your faith in humanity broken down into nothingness . Im sorry. Yes, thats my question. All right. Ill tell you what, what were going to do, because we have so little time left, and i want everybody to get a question in, were going to have one of you answer, and well move it along so we get laura, ill have you answer. Im working as a hospital chaplain now. I went to seminary from 2006 to 2009. I think vietnam took me deeper into my own life. And there was a moment when i really the question you get, of course, we all have to reconcile with, is where was god in vietnam . Where was god in the holocaust . How can there be something so awful . I was interviewing a woman who had been a nurse in vietnam. This was a question i had struggled with. She said to me, as any soldier will say to you if you talk to them, well, i never loved like i loved in vietnam. I love my wife and kids, but i love my buddies. The nurses will say there was something about the love i had for my patients. It was so intense and so different. Linda said, was tell me about the deep love that she had for her patients, and she said to me, i know in that love, thats where god was. That was the moment that i thought, yes, god is in the love, not the bonds of the bullets. Hi, im kay kofman, a former worker. The question i have, and youve talked a little about it, is reintegrating once you got back at the time. The gis were not welcomed the way they are now. We were not talking about posttraumatic stress disorder. How was it for you to come back and, to the extent you had to reintegrate into society, what were the challenges for you at that point . Lets have one person take that on so we keep moving. The only thing id like to say is my views on the war changed while i was there. I was prowar, because i was anticommunist. Toward the end, i saw the tragedy and the waste of war. But coming back to america and seeing the antivietnam demonstrators broke my heart. While politically, i agreed with them, to hear them ho, ho, ho, theyre going to win. You know, it was very, very difficult to walk straight into that very hostile environment. Just as a i think, her point is excellent. It really wasnt until the dedication of the Vietnam Memorial that we were able to separate the warriors from the war. I think one of the, perhaps the ultimate obscenity about vietnam is the soldiers who went were blamed for our losing it, and the result of the war is not the outcome. The outcome of the war is not the result of the people who fought that. By the time the memorial was dedicated, we could see that as a nation, finally. Lets get through three more quick questions. Im sorry to rush you. Thats okay. My name is annie. My question is, what are your thoughts about vietnam and the war before and after you came to vietnam, becoming reporters . In a soundbite, i can say i went with all the answers and i left with the questions. And im proud of understanding the questions. I saw the war in black and white before i went there, and when i came back, after knowing vietnamese and seeing many more sides of the pictures, there are many shades of gray. Great answer. I think i might have to use that in other circumstances. My name is dan. Im in the theater. I have a huge military family background. My question, actually, is for edith. Based on your p. O. W. Experience, and im curious, given recent comments, my question to you would be, what advice would you give or what would you say to somebody who says that p. O. W. S are not war heros, because theyve been captured, given everything that youve seen . Thats a loaded question. Well, you know. But i believe that anyone who puts his or her life on the line, ready to sacrifice for their country, in any shape or form, is basically a hero in the broader sense of the term. And for those who were imprisoned and captured, who suffered terrible hardships and indignities, its magnified. Because they actually had to face an even greater test than their fellow soldiers who survived and went home to their families when their tours were up. The word hero, i personally believe, has come to be sort of a catch all word. Everyone is a hero in our culture. Everyone is a hero. As i say, i think that soldiers, say it was marines ready to sacrifice for their country, they all should fall in that category. I think it can also be heroic to heal, to come to terms to the war, for someone who tries to find beauty and meaning in life again, who has to learn to walk again, tie a shoe. For the family who stands beside him, for the children who learn that dad or mom is upset because of i think there are many things that are courageous that we sometimes overlook in our need to create heros. Healing is ultimately very heroic. Thank you very much. Sir, youre going to have the last question of the evening. No pressure. Sure. My name is hunter forte. My question is for all of you. How might you see yourselves in journalist or reporters in particular, female journalist and reporters, in this modern or current age of journalism . I wouldnt want to be a war reporter today. I think its so dangerous and so just random. One thing about vietnam is our enemy there, the north vietnamese, they wanted to get through the war and live. They werent going to kill themselves or kill civilians. They tried it once before i came, blew up a boat in saigon that served this delicious pepper crab, and a lot of vietnamese would go there. They grenaded this boat, and a lot of vietnamese were hurt. They realized right off the bat, that was not a way for them to win the war and win them over to their side. So they stopped. But the danger in the current war is the people that are an enemy, they dont care. They will kill civilians, they will torture people. We did not have, when people were captured, like kate webb was not tortured. Its just dangerous and frightening. Vietnam was plenty frightening, but in a different way. I think theres no gender bias anymore. I may be wrong, but when i see women reporters covering from the middle east, its now, if im correct, more than 60 are female. Nobody bats an eye that shes standing there with a flack jacket. I think the opportunities are amazing for women. However, journalism itself as a profession has changed, and thats a whole different panel discussion. In the military, i learned the lesson of vietnam, keep reporters as far as you can from the field. Which is impossible. We did something that cant be replicated today, which is a tragedy. And i think most of the news organizations dont have foreign bureaus. I think americas appetite for foreign news has diminished. I think thats a huge change. As someone who works for an organization that still does have a lot of foreign bureaus, one of the rare american organizations that still does, there are a lot of women out on the front lines. The United States is not involved in many countries where there are conflicts going on. There are more civil wars today than there are intercountry conflicts. I think the fact that we live in a 24 7 world, where the communications and the interconnections are so instantaneous, and the fact that you have not only governments, but you have rebel fighters, and then you have extremist groups on every range. The players have grown dramatically, and i think that for all of that, it is much more dangerous to be out in the field on the front lines today. But there are plenty of women and plenty of men who are doing it, and plenty of men, young men and plenty of young women who really would like to be doing it. And on that note, we want to thank everyone for coming. I think its been a terrific conversation amongst our panelists and with you in the audience. We really do thank you for coming out tonight. You know, the News Business has been changing, i think, more rapidly with more volatility and faster than most of us can really keep up with it. But what it really does come down to at the end of the day is the reporter out there, filing under the most difficult of circumstances, making sure that the story does get to the American People. And these are four women who stand head and shoulders in making that happen. [ applause ] so i think well turn up the house lights so nobody everyone can see their way out. Thank you again. Youre watching American History tv, all weekend every week enon cspan3. To join the conversation, like us on facebook at cspan history. 15yearold Frank Mitchell became the first africanamerican congressional page of the 20th century in april of 1965. U. S. Representative paul findley of illinois suggested mitchell for the job and sponsored him while he was in washington, d. C. Up next, both men discuss that experience at the Abraham Lincoln president ial library. The u. S. Capitol page Alumni Association hosted this 40minute event. On behalf of the u. S. Capitol page Alumni Association, i want to welcome you all to the Abraham Lincoln president ial library and museum to commemorate a very special event. The 50th anniversary of the appointment of the first africanamerican page in the house of representatives. [ applause ] my name is jerry papazi and im the president of the Alumni Association and this event is one of a series of events that