Nick mullens, how far back does that history go . Well, it goes back to my second great grandfather in the 1920s who worked in areas of coburn, virginia, for virginia iron coal and coke company. And what is the thoughtful coal miner . Why did you get it started . What do you write about . The thoughtful coal miner is my way of speaking to some of the rhetoric that comes from both the industry and environmentalists, to try to find some Common Ground between the two. Speaking specifically to miners issues and trying to help give a voice and try to keep some of the bias out. At the same time, working to get the truth out there. And what do you do these days . Youre a former coal miner. How long did you serve in the mines . What do you do now . Lets see. I worked in the Mining Industry for about four years. Three years under ground. Decided to do that because there just werent a whole lot of decent jobs in the area that i worked. You know, where my family had been for pretty much ten generations, including my kids. So wanted to find something with a living wage, so i ended up in the coal mine, like a lot of other people. And it was a good job to provided a lot of money to my family. I have to admit that. But it came with issues, including health issues. Anybody who worked any time in the mine and known anybody who worked in the mines knows thats definitely a problem. And what are the places that you dont think the Mining Industry and the environmentalists are speaking to when it comes to this discussion were having in this country about coal mining . I think its the day to day life of coal miners. You know, listening to bob murray earlier. He was speaking to the dignity and honor of the job, but didnt talk a whole lot about the health issues, the black lung problems that were having. Didnt speak to a lot of the disabilities. Yeah, we definitely want to provide for our family, but at the same time we dont want to give up our health for it. When ever it comes to environmentalists, they have their hearts in the right place. Mining does create a lot of environmental problems. You know, i was witness to it myself back home. We had a mountain top removal job right behind our house. It turned our family spring where we sourced our water to acidic mine drainage. But at the same time, we have to understand that there are economic implications in that people in the industry who work in the industry have to find a way to make a living, especially in areas that are this economically depressed. Essentially its a polarization between environmentalists and the working class. I mean, a lot of the jobs that are in this area do have environmental implications. Environmentalists want to protect that environment, of course. But people need to have jobs, so they want to protect their jobs. So theres this huge barrier between the two. And its being created, i think, and inflamed more by the coal industry themselves. They point at the environmentalists and environmental regulations as job killers. And theres no doubt that theres been some regulations that have definitely harmed the coal industrys bottom lines, but at the same time, its not exactly translated down to what i would say terrible impacts on mining families as much as they trump it up to be. Those are market shifts within sectors that are occurring and those are a lot harder to control. Another part of this is washington, d. C. What dont you think washington, d. C. Understands about the mining culture where you are . Well, i dont believe they really understand what its like to be a coal miner, to face the reality of having to go to work everyday to provide for your family with no job alternatives in the region, that would provide anywhere near the same amount of money and benefits, but at the same time, knowing that youre sacrificing your health, knowing that youre risking your life. Sure those are very proud sacrifices to make for your family, but thats not a choice any person in this country should have to make. And i think that a lot of representatives in washington fall short of understanding that. Nick mullens is the author of the thoughtful coal miner its thethoughtfulcoalminer. Com. He is with us until the end of our program today joining us from powhatenpoint in ohio. 2027884000 if youre in eastern in youre in the mountain or pacific time zones 2027488002. Lets go to nancy waiting in washington this morning. Nancy, good morning. Hi, thank you. And thanks, mr. Mullens. Its been fascinating listening to you. And i have a lot of questions for you. First of all, can you tell us what theyre putting in the streams, especially with the roll back of the regulation that trump rolled back . Just keep clean water. And also, what about retraining for a lot of these miners . Even just cleaning up you know, if we close the coal mines and the coal power plants, could there not be cleanup jobs as well as other jobs that they could be retrained for . Im all for people having honorable jobs that support their families, but at some point, you know, we have to realize that the planet, our only home, is at stake. Mr. Mullens . Yes. Excellent questions. Well, to address the first question, some of the things that are going into the water is heavy metals. Any time that you mine, especially surface mining, youre taking the large chunks of mountain and rocks that would normally be water would run through and through the nooks and crannies and not get a whole lot of these heavy metals that are locked away in there, youre crushing them up into a fine powder in some cases with the blasting. That makes it much more soluble. You have more leechingover minerals and various heavy metals like arsenic. Also when ever the mining process occurs, it adds oxygen to some of the sulfur and that creates acidification of the water. In that helps leech out even more of those heavy metals. In the mining process itself you have various oils and chemicals that leak out of equipment, gearales used for gear cases for heavy machinery, any kind of motor oils for diesel Power Equipment and hydrolic fluids. I saw my fair share of that leaking into the mines as we worked. In terms of retraining coal miners, yeah, theres definitely a lot of opportunities throughout appalachia to work in abandoned mine reclamation. All these issues that were seeing with the water and poor reclamation projects and even prereclamation reclamation being the process of restoring the mountain and trying to prevent erosion after the mining process is completed and addressing the water issues that follow, theres all sorts of jobs in that that most miners are already trained to be able to operate the machinery to do. Beyond that, you know, miners are very, very smart people. Theyre they have a lot of ingenuity. You have mine electricians and repairmen who are very crafty, know the electrical systems, they could be retrained into other forms of mechanicing and repair and electrical work. Perhaps fastpaced i dont know, electrical programs throughout the state to get into trades licensing. Theres a lot of different options there but need to funds to fix all the damage. Lets hear from some former coal miners or their family members. Nancy is on that line calling in from georgia this morning. Nancy, good morning. Caller good morning. Im a grandma and my grandfather was a coal miner and i grew up in the coal business southwestern virginia. I want to talk about the different types of coal mining because my son is a mining engineer. Nancy, were listening. Just go ahead and talking through your phone. Your son is a mining engineer. Caller yeah. Mountain top mining is really not mining. Strip mining is totally different doesnt really involve that many doesnt involve engineers or underground mining. Deep mines are the two mining techniques he works with. And i think that the blue green divide im sort of on the green side because i work to protect stripe mine land when he was little. We were successful in southwest virginia. But strip mountain top mining is an abomination. There are more explosives used in appalachia every month it is an abomination. It doesnt use engineers. Nick mullens, let you comment. Yeah. I would have to agree with that. I mean, strip mining is an easier, more me canized way of mining coal. Its actually killing jobs. It doesnt take nearly as many men or women to be able to perform that job, to run the large equipment. And theyre actually paid less than underground mining. Now underground mining of course requires more people and it does pay more, but it does have its issues as well. People who work in the underground coal mines come away with health issues. They say that 76,000 people have died of black lung since 1968. And theyre starting to see increases in black lung issues even today. Even with the end black lung now campaign, were starting to see up ticks in severe cases of black lung in the new generation of coal miners. But it comes down to pushing production and that is the coal industrys game. As much as they want to say theyre here to provide jobs and take care of the people and take care of mountain communities, theyre here to get the coal out of the ground and to be able to make a profit off of it. And they try any which way and take any shortcut that they can in some cases in terms of making that production increase. Lets head to huntington, west virginia, lou el is waiting on the line. Good morning. Caller good morning. Thank you for taking my call. I have to express how much i appreciate cspan. Now hydrolic generators in our locks and dams were primarily showing the coal temples on the high river. All these coal plants can be replaced with about 125 hydrolic generators. We already have locks and dams, just put some generators in place. You dont have to burn any fuel whatsoever. Nick mullens, is that a topic youve studied . Well, i mean, yeah, theres definitely alternatives to our energy and we could certainly put in hydro electric plants. There are a lot of locks that could produce hydro electric energy. And that combined with another form of energy, which ive heard some people call the first fuel, is Energy Efficiency, which if we can retire so many of these plants and we could institute so much more Renewable Energy resources, but the first thing we have to do is decrease our base load and that just means becoming more Energy Efficient. I think were lagging well behind the rest of the world especially in developed countries in putting into effect a lot of Energy Efficiency laws and regulations that would help bring down our demand to begin with. Staying on that line for coal miner and their family members. Judy, silver spring, maryland. Good morning. Judy, you with us . Caller yes. Go ahead, maam. Caller im sorry. Thank you for taking my call. I grew up in pennsylvania in 1944 with all the coal in the 50s. In our time we could no longer use coal already in 1950 we knew that it wasnt good for us. In the meantime, i had four family members die from black lung who had worked in the coal mines and one who had died from alcoholism because he couldnt stand working in the mines. So, anything that we can do to get rid of the coal now we should be trying to do and i cant see why we can continue doing it. Thanks for my call. Ill take my answer off the air. Nick mullens, what would your response be . Yeah. Thats one of the things that we have to realize. Im terribly sorry to hear about your family members. I lost my great grandfather to black lung, and i dont have a memory of him without having a nasal kamula and oxygen kons traitors around him. Coal has not been kind to appalachia. A lot of people want to say its been the economy and that its here to help the people, but i just cant believe that. Not seeing what has happened to us. I mean, there have been billions of tons of coal mined in appalachia shipped and sold for Steel Production and electric production, and yet we remain some of the most economically distressed counties within the nation. It doesnt make sense. The profits and the amount of coal that leaves this area does not translate back into helping the people. And it certainly doesnt help to translate back into helping the coal miners. I mean, there was evidence that john hopkins doctors were being paid by the coal industry to appeal black lung cases by reading the xrays. That came out in 2013. Theres always been pushback from the coal associations against mine safety legislation that would help protect coal miners. And of course when ever it comes to the environmental regulations of course theyre going to fight those because it means they have to do things much better without taking as many shortcuts and protecting streams and water sources. And that spells that translates into time and money that takes away from their profits. So, we have to be looking towards a different future, especially for our kids. You know a lot of people also want to say, well, this is a Family Tradition and its done so much for our families. Yeah, coal mining certainly has. I mean, i was raised on coal. We had a pretty good life because of coal. But my parents never wanted me to end up in the mine. And i dont want my kids to end up in the mine and theres a reason for that. We have to breakthrough that mentality of protecting an industry that has never had us in their best interests. What did your parents say to you when you did end up in the mine . Well, they understood that i was up between a rock and a hard place for a job. My mom just said i dont like it but, you know, you have to do what you have to do. And when ever i left the mine, she cried. She was glad to see me out. Nick mullens is author of the thoughtful coal miner. Also the founder of breaking clean. Can you tell our viewers what that is . Well, breaking clean is kind of a Small Company they created a Mini Communications company. I consider it more of a nonprofit, but not quite with the tax status. I try to use it to create media and develop stories that are placebased and communitybased to tell the issues of extraction, not just in appalachia but anywhere that extractions occurs and companies go in to take advantage of resources without paying back to the people who live there. Its also a means of doing Public Outreach and education about sustain bltd initiatives in our need to be more thrifty and Energy Efficient with our resources. Time for a few more calls. Staying on that line for coal miners and their family members, adam, jacksonville, ohio. Good morning. Caller good morning. Go ahead. Youre on with nick mullens. Caller yeah. Ive got a question. I was coal miner for about as long as you have been, right around three years. As a welder, mechanic and laborer as well. I got hurt august 16th the night of, would have been 17th early in the morning. Herniated disks, c3,4, c5, c6 and i missed work on the 18th because i couldnt get out of bed. The 19th i went back to work and herniated some disks in the middle of my back for moving a buggy anchor from the rib. Oh. Caller and my question is how can a guy go about getting things approved when the coal miners working against the coal miner himself and, you know, workers comp is doing the same. I have five kids i have to take care of, just like every other coal miner. And here i am disabled and not getting fixed. And actually the 23rd of this month i have to go get neck surgery done and thats on my wifes insurance because workers comp and Westmoreland Coal company is refusing to help previous employee out. Adam, thanks for sharing your story. Nick mullens. Yeah. Yeah. Thats one of the things that, again, just doesnt seem to make it through the coal industrys media campaigns and their friends of Coal Organization campaigns. They dont talk about people like you. And they dont talk about people like my friend who was had a rib roll out and crushed him up underneath the shuttle car and how many the comp insurance fought him and the Company Fought him or another friend who spent 30 years in the mine and developed black lung issues and the Company Fought him to keep him from being able to get disability. Same with black lung cases. You know, if you talk to injured miners, and you hear what they have to say, youll hear a much better narrative about the true face of the coal industry, not this, you know, coal keeps the lights on, proud heritage, honor and dignity for miners. You hear about what really happens to coal miners and how the Companies Think about them. It really its been that way ever since the beginning. People would always say that the mule was more important than the miner. And that miners are just tools. As soon as youre used up they can just discard you and get Something Better and theyve been doing that as well. You have to understand that this is not a compassionate narrative towards coal miners. The industry isnt here to support coal miners. Theyre here to support themselves, to support their profits, their quarterly statements and thats it. Anything else is just trying to get people to believe that theyre here for the better. Well be taking our viewers to the Senate ForeignRelations Committee in a few minutes, but want to get to as many calls as we can nick mullens. Robert is in brooklyn, new york. Good morning. Yeah. Maybe you covered this, but i was just wondering what percentage of the coal in this country is taken using tool mining and what percentage using strip mining. Nick mullens, is that something you know about . I cant quote it right off the top of my head. Theres been a lot of changes in recent years due to regulations and due to the downturn in the coal industry. You know, my first blush is that strip mining probably increased to some degree especially since its more cost prohibitive excuse me, not cost prohibitive but Cost Effective form of mining. It requires less labor overhead and more mackenized. I dont have any exact numbers. Im sorry. Piketon, ohio. Windon, good morning. Caller good morning. Thank you for taking my call. Just a quick note here. I have a lot of environment in trying to address this matter. There are solutions. The key really is all about economics. The miners and the poor folks in the rural areas need jobs and need money. Its not that they necessarily have to work in the coal mines. Like the gentlemen says they recognize the dangers. History on myself here, as a former marine of 12 years with some technical background, i worked with an offered chemical engineer eight years ago and submitted a proposal through the local university with regards to a complete dynamic reactor for making bio diesel. The reason we chose bio diesel is because it was fairly clean, it was the only fuel authorized as a one to one replacement. Our reactor we designed cost roughly 1 20th of what the normal cost of industry specks were and used less than 60 of the catalyst and alcohols that normal systems used. The big component of our system was the farming model and theres existing in those kinds of things that compete with the soy beans and our numbers with the universities up around williston, north dakota up there where they claimed there was going to be the gas boom up there and had all these jobs and now its just a destitute area, those records and public, you know, documents with regards to Standard Research on the seeds and the plants showed that the model would produce over 500 more than soy beans and that they were perfectly applicable for ground mediation and mountain top remediation. Nick mullens, let you pick up on what you want to pick up from that. Yeah. I mean, absolutely. There are alternatives. Like you said, you dont necessarily have to work in a coal mine. A lot of guys i worked with the in the mines i heard it said a lot is that i would work some other job in a heart beat if i can make the same amount of money im here. I think a lot of them would take a pay cut, especially knowing how volatile the industry is, how volatile the markets are and how much of a lack of job security there is in mining. I mean, im 37 years old and ive already witnessed two busts in the industry that left families devastated. The first occurred in the 1990s with my father. We struggled. My mom had to take a job. He wasnt the only one. Had all sorts of uncles. There was a huge outmigration, people searching for jobs. So people would like alternatives. I dont think that anybody is completely married to the coal industry in terms of their employment. There are some who are very dedicated, very proud. But, you know, i think even they would perhaps consider a job that didnt risk their life and risk their health in the long term. And again, when ever it comes back to Energy Efficiency and renewables and developing other energy sources, you know, thats a way we can do these things. We can tackle this problem. You know, if we werent so wasteful with energy we wouldnt have a National Energy problem, but thats just the way it works. Nick mullens, we have to end it there. If you want to read more about nick mullens work, its the thoughtfulcoalfiner. Com. Thank you so much for taking time this morning. Thank you, john. Thats going to do it for our program from powhatenpoint, ohio. Join us this thursday when the Senate SelectIntelligence Community will hear about worldwide threats. Scheduled witnesses include mike pompeo, fbi director james comey and dan coates. 10 00 a. M. Eastern on cspan. Sunday night, on after words physician and journalist elizabeth rosenthal, examines the business side of health care in her book an american sickness how health care became big business and how you can take it back. Doctor rosenthal is interviewed by dr. David bloomenthal, president of the commonwealth fund. So i was wondering if your book gave you any thoughts about whether health care is a free market . Whether we can solve our problems in health care through free Market Forces . Well, i think what weve seen is the answer is probably not. I mean, at the beginning of the book i put somewhat tongue and cheek list of the economic rules of the dysfunctional Health Care Market where if you think of health care as purely a business proposition, the market will solve, you get to crazy places like, you know a life time of treatment is preferable to a cure. Now, i am not saying for a second that any one really thinks that. But that is where Market Forces put you right now. Watch afterwords sunday night at 9 00 p. M. Eastern. Sunday on q a the comparisons between donald trump and andrew jackson. Our guest on his book, andrew jackson, southerner. I dont think he represents the positive values that jackson represented. He certainly represents some of the negative values that jackson represented, but i think i would tell President Trump that if he wants to be like andrew jackson, he has to put nation in front of his personhood, has to put nation in front of his own family and interest because thats what jackson did for most of his presidency. Sunday night at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspans q a. To experience a fulfilling, purposeful life, one thing youre going to have to do is this live a large life. You are your own stories. And therefore free to imagine and experience what it means to be human. We have a responsibility in our time as others have had in theirs, not to be prisoners of history but to shape history. A responsibility to fill the role of pathfinder. Holding fast to your come pas of values, faith, honesty, loyalty, patriotism and generosity. Just a few past commencement speeches from the cspan video library. And again this year, watch commencement speeches by