On civil war leadership posted by Longwood University in virginia. Its about an hour. Less weaker of the morning is william jack davis. He is from independence, missouri. He has a bachelors and masters degree from brett sonoma state university. You may know him from civil war times illustrated. Onlys popular civil war magazine. Those with the best years of it. He is the author and editor of 60 books. They are relating primarily to the civil war, but also southern u. S. History. Think about that for a minute, 60 books. Was athose, his first history of the new market campaign, which i think is a model small battle history 40 years after was written. Its one of the last small battle historys ever written. He wrote a biography of john c reich and ridge breckenridge. War, inn the end of the florida and other locations. I corresponded with him about the escape of some of the confederate cabinet members through florida. He is the editor of the series on the civil war in virginia, a separate volume for each year. The newer editor of photographic history of the civil war. Is a great supplement to the older history. Davis was the on camera consultant and commentator for 52 episodes of civil war amd and which was on the history channel. Differentlved in production activities for television. He retired after 13 years as the professor of history and executive director of the Civil War Center for civil war studies at virginia tech. He is the only fourtime winner of the Jefferson Davis award for confederate and civil war history. There were copies of his newest work. I hope i pronounce it correct lead. Please welcome mr. Davis. [applause] mr. Davis good morning. Its great to be back here again. This is a wonderful venue and a great event. Forngratulate ralph peters taking care of the first couple of its of the talk i was going to do. I now dont have to say that my favorite branch of the government is the National Park service. They give us more bank for the buck than any other branch of government. It is a dedicated core people working there. Mes been a great leisure for for 45 years. Have known so many of them and worked with so many of them. It is really something to be proud of. With the possible of exception of england, i dont know any other nation that has anything to compare to it. That, int is part of think red i am going to rewrite my talk while i am giving it. He addressed so many interesting things. Im going to talk about grant and lee and leadership in what characterized them. I am going to give you some of the background in their lives and this is the sort of thing that informs the way people make decisions. Did you know that u. S. Grant grew up in the wealthiest household in his county . Of rural the son western privilege. His house had books in it. It had a piano. Lee as you have always heard grew up in stranger circumstances. Maybe not as poor as has been implied. His mother inherited a number of slaves that she hired out. She inherited shares in banks and railroads. Unlike shares today, those actually paid dividends. Between 2000 and 4000 a year. That would be in the top 10 of earners. They were not living in genteel poverty. She was very careful with her money. They would have a debate in the family over what meet they would buy for the next days dinner. They could afford a lot more than just one meet at a time. His mother was obsessed. She knew something about poverty. She knew about death. You knew about shame and humiliation. She was always a inch penny. It was always a contention between lee and his wife. Sonsuld tease one of his about the mens spending. Dangerous thing is when she finds a bargain. It winds up costing twice if she adjust pay the asking price. He grew up very conscious of money. Their childhoods are very different. Please is quite constrained. I think ralph was right on the money when he pointed out that lee from his earliest moments of the load that he and his brothers bear as the sons of harry lee. He would spend virtually all of his life trying to overcome that, trying to turn around the reputation of the lee family. He scarcely knew his father. His father disappeared when he was seven years old. He never saw him again. I think its very significant that during the war when he was in command in south carolina, he would visit his fathers grave. He died on the way and is buried near savannah, georgia. He went to visit his fathers grave and he wrote a letter, one to his wife and one to his son. He described it. This is how he described it. He went to the Nathanael Greene plantation. Saw fathers grave. He went on one sentence about his father. He was writing about visiting the grave of the stranger. I think this will follow him all of his life. Grant has his own cross to bear in the parental department. Ass. Father was a jack hes the wealthiest man in town and he knows it. He rubs everybodys face in it a boob. Is really of grant has a different cross to bear. Past being the son of this character who spends much of his time doing his best to tear down his sons sense of selfworth. He is his sons worst critic in childhood. He will do that while they are in the war. It is so revealing that after the surrender, one of the first letters grant would write is to his father. It says essentially i took six berg and you can see vicksburg. And you can see this plea, have i done well, daddy . There were tradeoffs. Grant had an enormous amount of freedom as a child. His father did nots gold or discipline the children. If they gave them enormous freedom, the kind of freedom that those of us with children would never think of. There were no boundaries to speak of. Lets travel around the county. He could take one of his fathers horses and ride wherever he wanted to from the age of seven or eight. He is something of a horse whisperer. It he has unusual connection with horses and he can handle almost any animal. Especially horses. He is allowed to hitch up his fathers two horse team when he is eight years old and go off in the country. His father would send him out to make deliveries or pickup purchases for the stores. There was more than one store. They sell Leather Goods have been tanned by others. By the time he is about 15 years old, grant has by himself with a team of horses traveled from georgetown, ohio to maysville, kentucky, louisville, kentucky, cincinnati, pittsburgh, detroit, chicago. Geography, hedied is getting farther and farther away from home and he is only a kid himself. By the time he left for west point when he was 17, he had by himself with a wagon and team traveled over 1500 miles. How many of you would trust a 17yearold you know to travel 1500 miles by himself with no supervision . It opened up the world to him. Lost aloped and never fascination with travel. Of seeing what is beyond the hills, seen new things in meeting new people. Life,t same time of his he probably never traveled more than 100 isles from home. He nearly bankrupted himself. He loved every moment of it. We have photos of him in egypt, china, japan. It he was the first jimmy carter of a sort he would broker east between china and japan. Today a monument to u. S. Grant it was put up in the 1890s for the pc made. Peace he made. He loved the world. He never got over that fixation on localism. Based both have their prejudices. They both have their prejudices. Grant pretty much loves everybody. He was indifferent to slavery. There is not a word from him about the institution of slavery. He did briefly owned one slave that was a gift when he was broke. He emancipated him. It was a slave had been in his wifes family anyhow. He gets along with virtually everybody because hes not just interested in the world, he is interested in people. He has a very open mind. Exceptsnt like anybody white virginians. Been made about his letter he wrote in 1858 in which he castigates slavery. He goes on to say that slavery is a eager misfortune for white men than it is for the slaves. The white man had to take care of the slaves. His experience with his family was that they hired up the few slaves they had and he inherited about a halfdozen. They caused trouble. They ran away. To sendto spend money somebody after them to bring them back. He did not slavery. They dont know what to do about it. He is no fan of the slave. He doesnt like indians. He doesnt like mexicans. Hes not really keen on catholics. He is pretty openminded about news. Jews. He went out of the way to make some allowances for jewish holidays. Mines inwo different operation. Minds in operation. They share a lot of things in common. I think its important to emphasize that insane some things about one that you havent heard before, been it doesnt mean that i or anyone else some antilee or antigrant. Theust need to level Playing Field and look at them with the blinders off. We want to have as fair and approximation as we can of who they are. Let me play a little game with you. I will give you a couple of scenarios. We will talk of general a and general b. General a expects the enemy to advance but does not take its going to happen yet. Prize by to thats a being pushed back and fighting defensively at first, but then he consolidates his position and takes the offensive and he drives the foe from the field. Who does that describe . Grant or lee . Both. Shiloh and leet at chancellorsville. Flight,ard on his mustveb says the enemy weaken the other end of his line. General b counterattacks and wins the battle. Which one is . Both. Lee. At fort donaldson and bird and last, general divides his enemy and spends it on a Wide Movement around the enemy flank and rear to strike a decisive blow. Which is it . Both. Manassas and grant at vicksburg. Grant is a plotting butcher who won only by overruling power. Respects, their skills and their generalship approach are identical. Lee had genius. His was hardly a hopeless task and grant did have great advantages. Early in the war, grant had more experience. We tend to forget he was already a National Hero after donaldson and after shiloh when lee was being virtually forgotten because the campaign in western virginia the did not come out well. The effort he took grant was better equipped and supplied. Was back my unlimited resources. Counter that with the fact that lee thought on home ground. The advantage of interior lines. He knew the ground or had people with him who knew it and he and his army had the vital support of the local people. Lee had another tremendous advantage. He had the unwavering to or of president Jefferson Davis. Support of president Jefferson Davis. He had a wonderful working relationship with him. Grant on the other hand never met lincoln until 1864. Lincoln had done wary of grant or some time until he was he would not challenge him for the republican president ial nomination in 1864. Bynt is being courted opponents to lincoln in his own party. Lee knew davis much better than grant whatever no lincoln. Grant also faced the constant peril of clinical infighting in his rear. Others. He jealousies of stripe,re also men of a alliedd their allies themselves with newspaper men. Impressions, and thats nothing new. Its very evident there. His men fed the press stories to hurt grant, like the charges of drunkenness. Lee never has to contend that. He has no one working against him behind his lines except issibly long street, who wanting an independent command of his own. Onward, lee would report directly facetoface with Jefferson Davis. Grant through his career will fremont,rst two john c , talk about aleck losing hand it cards. At cards. With anll start a war army in which virtually every Division Commander in 1862 was a political general from illinois. Talk about poison. Only sherman along his Division Commanders was a professional. Grant had to try to commandandcontrol the likes of banks, butler, siegel. Nonprofessional generals in his upper echelon. Grant has to operate entirely in enemy country. Andas to maintain long increasingly longer lines of communications. Lee campaigned almost exclusively on home ground except for antietam and gettysburg. Lee has got some substantial and see if it can advantages to help offset grant superiority of numbers and materiality. This is demonstrated by what lee did to burnside and to hooker area hooker. Had any of those officers been 1864,mand in virginia in is there any reason to suppose they wouldve done any better against lee than they had before . Differences ing their personal pluses and minuses. In 1864 when they first meet the field, lee is 57. That does not sound too old to me. Mental, Spiritual Health is in decline. He suffered from heart ailments which he treated mostly with something that just aggravated the problem. He is tired and he complains of not having energy. He complains he cant concentrate, that he has trouble seeing. The war has exhausted them. Mentally, he is older than his years of years. He married a woman who had test was difficult. Its unwise now to try to put somebody who is long dead on the couch and psychoanalyze them. Mary custis sleeve shows a lot thehe lee has a lot of characteristics of someone today we would consider bipolar. There is an incident where she got out of bed one morning and had a dad hair day, so she cut all her hair off. Officer,was a younger they prepared to go to one of the social events that would take place on the post. He would be dressed immaculately and she would show up wearing the 19th century equivalent of genes in a tank top. She had no concept of what was appropriate for occasions. All of the children would dance around mary increasingly, to try to keep her on an even keel. We can say that she was a difficult personality and that preyed on leads mine. You see it in his leaders in the later years. By 1860, he feels he is a failure as a father, as a husband, he even feels like a failure as a man. He gets to go back and take over his command after those years he had to spend bailing out the arlington mansion. How glad he was to be back in the field. He felt a stranger. He felt like he did not belong in the house, that he was in everybodys way. He is not a happy man. He has no enthusiasm. He will write about the deaths of friends as a good event. A young officer who just got married. He would write to his wife about how that young officer within weeks of marriage took sick and died. Is,said, how wonderful that what a magnificent release. He will not have to go through all the hell and tribulations that constitutes a marriage. He writes that to his wife. He will express pleasure of a sort of the dress at the death of a child. That child can go directly to heaven and not go through the anguish that is life on earth did earth. This is not a warm view of life. You find a resident nation and a vague pessimism. A is probably what is called providential list. Man is help us, all we can do is be the pin balls in the 10 10 ballgamet that god runs. Nball game that god runs on earth. If everything is only would wills, if man really cant influence anything unless thats what god wants, you are the commander of an outnumbered army, that can be liberating. We not taking the risk. If fail, its not my fault. Uss because god didnt need to fail. Grant is 42. He is in the best health of his life. He is 15 years younger. Isis married to a woman who an inspiration for twin beds. She is no day at the beach. Is a bit overweight. Grant just adored her. He kind of married up. His fatherinlaw was not that keen on her marrying a soldier. Grant was always happiest when she was with him. She was his touchstone. That is why he was often as possible having his wife with him during the war. Sometimes, his children as well. He simply loves the grocery walks on. That grant argued have may have been in the happiest marriage the white house has ever seen and we have seen some pretty funny ones in recent times. Maybe with the exception of s truman, bes this was an enormously happy man in his personal life. He was above all else an incurable optimist to the point of being impractical. He always expects everything to turn out right. Use the original pangloss and in candide. He also believes that a man can make his own luck. A man can influence what happens on earth. He places no reliance on the almighty. If you want to write the shortest book on record, write a book about grants religion. All we know if he ever went to church, he went to a methodist church. He was on was completely silent on all things metaphysical. But he always expects to succeed, even after he has just failed. That is not an end to itself. Its a little delay on the ultimate road to victory. After every victory of the war, he will say the confederates are going to have to give up. I expect the war to end in a few weeks now. 65,ever didnt till but he never lost the optimism. He will deal with conflict directly and decisively. Will relieve Senior Officers of command and tell them directly to their faces why he does it. He will have Senior Officers arrested. , alwaysys so controlled leeconscious that he is a and of this persona that he has created and invested to stay in avoidsrsona, lee always come fro confrontation. He has officers to disappoint him, he gets a richmond to transfer them somewhere else. He doesnt do it himself. He gets richmond to do it. Think about it. A gets rid of his problem, but it makes those officers someone elses problem. He has not achieved a solution for the confederacy. He has achieved a solution for himself. Grant is too optimistic sometimes. Sometimes he does not prepare carefully or take proper account of enemy potential. Yet there are many similarities and there are very significant in the ways men and position like this are going to manage vitally important commands. Either one of them has much use for councils of war. They will solicit the opinions of their subordinates in operations and they will listen if a subordinate proposes an idea, like when grant accepts thomass plan for the cracker line to believe chattanooga. At the end of the day when a decision had to be made, they sought no consensus to share the responsibility. They made their decisions themselves and they were both completely prepared to accept the consequences. Both have i guess it must be in born to adapt to delays,ed events, to and to constantly reassess a situation as it appeared before them rather than as they wanted it to be. Grant seem to be able to do this almost from the outset. Lee came to it a little more slowly. Of the 70s, he simply waited for things to happen and wondered why they didnt. By the close of the week, he was learning and adapting quickly. Grant maintained excellent control of his units and developed a very outstanding staff, many of whom were specialists. And vested with authority to act in his stead, as you have heard before. The battlefield could be stretch out over miles. Theres no way and Army Commander can see all of it let alone be giving direct orders. Grant would invest his Staff Officers with his authority to act in his stead. He could send the captain out to tell a court commander what to do. The Corps Commander knew hed better do it. It was an excellent use of staff that very few generals used. Grant will do this especially when he is tried to get difficult officers to do something. He will station members of his staff and those generals headquarters constantly to remind them this is what the general and chief expect you s you today. We did not do that unfortunately. His staff was on most all good officers, but he just did not use them enough. When the staff was not around, they came to refer to him as the great cu take him because he did so much himself. He only had seven permanent staff. Grant had more than 20. Its not the modern general staff yet, but its a step on the way there. And know how to delegate for the most part they dont micromanage. Grant arguably gave better orders, mostly written. , precise, and few they rarely left room for confusion. Its no wonder he became a great writer. Lee was prone to give too many verbal orders. Some of that were simply the exigencies of the situations he found himself. Was a problem where the verbal orders had to pass through a chain of command. Could havesion the problem of misquotation. There was an old game called chinese whispers where the first verse and would whisper in the year of the one next to him, i think its going to rain today, and that one transfers than message to the next. Then the line comes out Something Like my sweaters too tight. Allow wayers a too much guilt from mr. Transmission. Missed transmission. Attackructions for the at chief brown where as scarcely his instructions for the attack at Chief Mountain were scarcely in comparable mess. Both were good at supply needs. Supplies can be troops along the way. Both were very sound logicians. Both prepared carefully. If grant was a little more meticulous, keep in mind that he always had access to greater resources and he had wants himself been a quartermaster. As my late grandfather, who was a quartermaster in the sixth army in the pacific, often said, the army depends on quartermasters. Actually what he said is that the two most important people in the army are the quartermaster and the sergeant. That was for you, eddie wheeler. Grant liked being a quartermaster. When it came to discipline, every Army Commander has got to maintain discipline. Lee is actually more stern of a disciplinarian. In just seek leniency under one fourth of the capital cases that came to him from men who had deserted. Grant would seek it in more than half of the same cases. While again in almost 22 present the cases, lee proved that ultimately resulted in the execution of a soldier. At grants case, it was slightly less at 19 . That did not mean he was more humane, but he was somewhat more reluctant to impose the justice. A realon was never threat to union survival as it was a threat to confederate survival. Grant had less need of stern examples. Both set model personal examples. They consciously try to appear not to hold themselves about their men. They may have been a little easier for grant the cozy was cut largely from the same cloth as his soldiers. For the patrician lee, it required more effort and was more sacrifice, but it paid off in respect and near adulation that his men felt for him. Both are surprised by the enemy more than once. That same grandfather i mentioned once told me he thought there were two kinds of Army Commanders. There are those taken by surprise now and then and then there are those who live. E. Stay in the military long enough and you will be surprised. Grant was surprised by clairmont. Certainly he was taken by surprise at shiloh. Lee was taken by surprise by grants crossing of the james. When confronted by a setback, their instincts are identical. Neither retreated immediately from a surprise or defeat. Instead their reaction was to ask themselves, how can i turn this setback to my advantage . Which is what grant would do after Holly Springs and after the second day at shiloh. Thats the reason least it at antietam and gettysburg, hoping for an opportunity to turn it around. Both had the instincts of raiders. These campaigns at into the and gettysburg are not of conquest. He never expected to stay in maryland or pennsylvania. He was always going to go back to virginia. Antietam stunned and shocked the north and had some political effect. Gettysburg disrupted the plans for the season and wrongfooted the army of the potomac until november. It bought lee andi virginia summer. They both understand the value of what a raid, even a huge one can accomplish. Neither is afraid to take a great risk to. Think of grant landing the vicksburg campaign, making each mens stretch rations to last three and coming on the land to provide everything else. Make the big decision that if theres one thing that sets them apart from almost all other Army Commanders in that war, it is that they were willing. They could take a huge risk knowing that it risked the lives of thousands and then get a good nights sleep. A nurturebring along from a few subordinates. Grant is responsible for the rise of sherman. Nobody else would have put up with them. He is also responsible for the rise of sheridan and others. He works diplomatically with mead when he came east and generally preserved goodwill between them. Lee brought along jeb stuart, ap hill, john b gordon, and others. Seniority is involved to some degree in the rise of all these men. Li approval of their progress dominated and anyone familiar with lees handling of officers who disappointed him knows that like grant did not keep subordinates who disappointed him around for long. To his credit, lee even try to make something out of joseph e johnson. Something useful, though he had limited confidence in the mans command ability and he put up with, as everybody did, the imperious behavior of pgt , when grantn 1864 for instance likely wouldve had both of those men relieved of their commands if not shot. [laughter] theres some failures of personal management personnel management. Grant filled with thomas. Lee failed with long street. Both subordinates were slow, plodding, resistant, and guardedly insubordinate. But there positive attributes and their wide popularity made them worth the frustration that came with them. Neither grant nor lee operates at a political vacuum, especially lee who has often been criticized for being virginia centric in his thinking. He certainly is to appoint, but liaison was aware of what is happening elsewhere in the confederacy. He may not seek to influence it, but he is very interested in how it might influence whats happening in virginia. Valueoth understood the of popular morale, of civilian will, and keeping the people behind the army. Grant had coal harbour. Lee had july 3 at gettysburg. They both made what had been called th big mistakes. Dont forget have those awful salt assaults work, lee wouldve been divided and all but trapped. Wouldve been divided at gettysburg and likely forced to withdraw to washington. The assaults that gave critics father of the years had they gone the other way made these men greater heroes. Sometimes a very thin line divides the military geniuses from the brags in the bird sides of the world. Will always be criticized and still is for his high losses in 1864 against lee. Theymay to june, thi totaled 60,000 or around 49 of the army of the potomac. Consider that in the previous three years the succession of the Union Commanders lost a total of 100,000 casualties in northern virginia. 1864, the april confederates were not that far away from where they began the war. In six weeks, grant tightly down to a siege that could only have one probable conclusion. These casualties in that same six weeks and amounted to 50 , fewer numbers, but still a fairly substantial proportion. Grant ran a much more complex evenn land and rivers before being made general in chief. Lee had northern and western virginia on his plate close to the end. Nevertheless, they were equally aware of the implications of their actions outside of their realms of command. Both exhibited a cane sense of the political impact of what they did. Lee counted on his invasions of 1862 and 1863 and the raid on washington in 1864 on influencing elections in the north and diplomatic relations abroad, though he was consistently underestimating the determination of the mass of the northern people to see the war through. Beginning,n the grant expected on most every battle to end the war or put the union just one more fight away from victory by dissolving the morale of the southern people. He underestimated confederate resolve just as much as he did the north could. The point that im trying to make is that neither commanded in a vacuum. , in atally in any war free society, both men understood instinctively and respected the role of the military as subordinate to the Civil Authority in a democracy. Mcclellan certainly didnt. Joe johnston didnt. Macarthur didnt. Mcchrystal didnt. Grant repeatedly declared that he would carry out any order whether he agreed with it or not if h. If you came up against in order that he could not in conscious of a, he would resign. Left no such declarations, but i think his actions speak loudly that he harbored virtually Identical Senate about duty and about subordination. Is neither had any evident ego getting in his way, although they had very human blood spots. Blind spots. Grant would never admit he had been surprised on the first day at shiloh. He was the only one who didnt admit it. Its probably something attributed to sherman, surprised, hell no, we were astonished. Lee will never admit that grant baffled him for 36 hours when he crossed the james. Let me add a bit of dimension to the story of lees final campaign toward appomattox. What is little known today in large part because i think a lot of the sources that we mightve had went up in flames with richmond and also many of the people involved simply never spoke about it. Its quite right what ralph said. Back in thely spring of 1864 that if ever came down to a siege that it would only be a matter of time. I think there no doubt whatever oft by the fall 1864, leaving the game was up. The south was not going to win. Theres a big difference between not winning and how you go about losing. By december of 1864, there was already a small group of men in the confederate senate. The senators from the Confederate States of kentucky and missouri, which never seceded, and the men representing the western counties of virginia, now the new state of west virginia, and along with some others like the senior senator from virginia, for instance, john a campbell, they began meeting to discuss this very issue. Essentially the game is up. How do we limit the damage . And lee is involved in those meetings. We know that because theres a couple regulation recollectionse being involved. In really gets going in january of 1860 51 president davis brings in a new secretary of war. He has been convinced of this for some time as well. Breckenridge and campbell become the center of this group of men. This is not a conspiracy. Everything they hope th to do is to be constitutional. They meet in the rooms to discuss what can we do and what comes out of this is what i do to call confederate reconstruction. They know they are going to lose. If they keep this war going on indefinitely, it can only end one way. But as long as they have armies in the field, they still have something to bargain with. As long as they still have the ability to cause the union the loss of more blood and more treasure to beat them into tail, they have something to offer in return for something. What they are doing essentially is putting the war pass them and looking ahead to trying to make the best we can of the future in reunion. What they come up with essentially is the hope that they can get an armistice, a ceasefire, and then negotiate. Of course, if you look at the history of armistice throughout modern history, wants guns or put down, its a very rare that there taken up again. Think of world war i for instance. They understand that. They know the north is worn out as well. If they can get peace, they could have some ability to bargain for maybe no mass confiscations. May be no mass trials of confederate leaders. May be recognition of governments of various states. Lee is in on these discussions. This falls apart when richmond falls and lee sets out toward not toward appomattox, but for lunch for or danville. He gets as far as appomattox. The only member of the government he is meeting with during the retreat is breckenridge, who is secretary of war, but hes also the leader of this group. The last thing he had said to them at one of their last meetings was this has been a magnificent epic. In gods name, let it not terminate in a farce. He wanted to surrender honorably as a nation, but yet ar if they could get an armistice first. That is what he and lee are discussing. We do not know because sources are very thin, but its interesting that once lee and grant open the communications that lead to the surrender. Realize there is point in continuing this and lee will write back saying i do not share your views at all. Just for the fun of it, what would be your terms if i was interested . In listening to your terms relative to the Confederate States forces under my command. He did not say relative to the army of northern virginia. Lee is general in chief of all confederate armies. All confederate soldiers are the forces under his command. It is his hint to grant that he has something to negotiate with. We may not make an end here. We could make it and everywhere. That isnt what happens, of course. Lee in grant do have a second meeting on april 10 on horseback. And again, lee tries to raise this idea. Tois vested with Authority Speak for other confederate armies as well. I think the reason he is still fighting, still resisting on the way to appomattox maybe involves his ego. Maybe its too hard for the warrior to give up, but i think he is playing for time and also still realizing that men will lose their lives, but those lives lost may make a living better for southerners after the inevitable defeat. At the end of the day, what do they think of each other . Interestingly after the war, grant would say of lee he was of a slow, conservative, cautious nature without imagination or humor, always the same with great dignity. They only met four times, so he did not know lee well of course. Unable to see that lees achievements justified his reputation, grant concluded lee was a man who needed sunshine. I never really understood what that meant until i realized not long ago that one of grants nicknames for his wife julia was sunshine. May be grant knew something about lees marriage and figured if he had a gal like i do, he would be a happier man. [laughter] grant would also say he thought just Abby Johnston was the only confederate commander he ever feared. That show that grant could be painfully wrong as well. For his part, lee rated grant as a pedestrian commander who only succeeded because of raw numbers , the essence of the forthcoming cause myth. Lee would say the best general tucson the war was general mcclellan. The war was the team jobs between johnston and mcclellan, they would still be retreating till today until they pumped into each other in taiwan. [laughter] in the end, they are completely human. Neither grant more lee ever could or would nor lee ever could or would the other was his preeminent emissary. Thank you all for listening. [applause] have got time for a couple of questions and we will break for lunch. If you want to take a microphone and your name and your questions. I have a brief question. My name is david can tell and i teach up in Prince William county coul. Grant always gets that slur against him that he is a butcher even though if you look at robert you lead overall and casualties, he sustained more casualties from the beginning of the war to the end of the war. He cannot afford to sustain those casualties. They were both aggressive in their own way, but i wonder if i dont want to say that its a slur toward either one, but just a perspective on that aspect of the war in terms of why we still have that tendency as students of history to see things in that way. I think lee is a genius as commanders go, but we dont delete equally apply that criticism in terms of some of his aggressive tactics, like the maryland campaign. Mr. Davis part of it is the old cliche that it is somewhat true that the north won the war, but the south won the peace. Certainly the south won the battle of history with this incredibly manipulated but successful lost cause myth. Part of that is that grant was a butcher and there was no skill on the northern side and lee was virtually sitting at the right hand of god. The war was only lost because he was let down by people who became republicans like long street. Findnk in fact you would for most of history that in contests between unequal forces, the underdog usually has to take risksre risks greater in the hope of surprise or ingenuity of evening odds. They work for him so much of the time, but it was very, very costly. Myths reluctantly and that is one of the ones that we will probably never go away. If only everybody read several of my books. If everybody just bought several of my books. [laughter] they would know how that is supposed to be. Im sorry. We will take one more question. Yes, in the civil war documentary series, the late shall be foot stated that lee could actually make himself grant and thanked what grant was thinking. Any comments on that . Mr. Davis i did not see that, so i dont know. Grant, very able, as was at looking at the situation at hand and looking at what he knew of terrain and especially of roads and how to get where you wanted to go. America that was largely a wilderness. We have lost a whole lot of trees since then. It was a very different landscape today. It mystified a lot of people on both sides. I think lee and crank to both look at the variables and say to themselves, what would i do if i were in my opponents position . This is what grant did slightly afterthefact at fort donaldson when he found out what those guys were doing with a heavy attack on one side. I knew what they were planning on doing now. Lee was certainly able at that ends well. Whether he was thinking like grant, i think thats Artistic License on the part of foot. Thank you all again. Lets enjoy lunch. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] there aso have out taste for work, the culinary history so picked that up. We will see you in about an hour at 1 45. Quite interested in American History tv, visit our website cspan. Org. American history tv at cspan. Org history. Com come inside where we will hear from dr