Transcripts For CSPAN3 The Presidency 20240621

He also talks about the killing of Lee Harvey Oswald and the Warren Commission, which was organized to investigate the assassination. Its a little over two hours. Ralph lovely thank you all for coming. It is never easy to get here. The metro is not working well today. Second i would like to thank the Smithsonian Associates program. They do such a remarkable job. If you cant find Something Interesting in that catalog you are dead. There are so many fascinating programs in art and history and science. Just on a nice job of putting the programs together. It is always a delight to be here. I am appreciative that cspan3 is filming this. I was able to watch as they had the first segment. The lincoln talk is this past saturday. It is now archived so if you want to watch it again it is now available and easy to find. I dont know when they are putting garfield or mckinley on. It would save us a lot of time. Todays talk is quite different than the other three. A lot of us in this room were alive and well when these took place. Also unlike garfield and mckinley im willing to bet most of you know who kennedy was, so im not going to do what we did with them and give a bio of kennedy. The lincoln and the kennedy are bookends to these talks. There are two plays that i thought of approaching tonights talk. One was to talk about the assassination itself and the conspiracy theories, who shot kennedy, who was behind it, who was involved, what about the Warren Commission. The second is to approach it politically. The taking over of power by Lyndon Johnson. I wasnt quite sure which way to go until i had a discussion with a young man who works in our firm who knew absolutely nothing about the assassination. If you remember a gentleman came up after the lincoln talk and asked if i could recommend one book. If i were to recommend one book on the political aspects i would recommend the path to power. Roberts book is excellent. There are so many good books on what happened has a result of Lyndon Johnson taking over as president. If i were to recommend one book on the assassination itself is reclaiming history, the assassination of john f. Kennedy. This book is mammoth. It is so good that it doesnt make sense for anybody else that said it hasnt stopped people. Unless something new comes out unless somebody has a deathbed statement or new testimony there is no need for new books. I would recommend it. Certainly have looked at a lot of different books in preparing tonights talk. If this were a paper instead of a talk you would see a lot. I will mention quite a few others as we go along. The kennedy assassination probably no other single oneday event in World History with the possible exception of the crucifixion of jesus, has produced more materials written on it. Its impossible to have read everything. Volumes are in normans. And the interest people have in this remains in norm us. The topic itself has hit all of us. Let me ask a couple of questions of the you. There is no example, no wrong answers. How many remember if you were alive how many remember where you were when you found out what happened. We all do. It allowed for nc ncaa rules. I was beating guys on the varsity. I wasnt allowed to be on it until the following year. And i just finished playing tennis. I came home and a fellow i hit with called up and said have you heard . And i heard. We were glued to the television for the rest of the weekend. Next question deals with your perception of the Warren Commission. The first Major Investigation of the kennedy assassination was conducted by a panel, a commission put together by new president Lyndon Johnson. They issued their report in september of 1964. It is a report on the president s commission on the assassination of president john f. Kennedy. It is much easier. A couple of questions on the Warren Commission. The Warren Commissions conclusions were that Lee Harvey Oswald was a lone assassin, they found no evidence they were involved in any part of a conspiracy, domestic or international. They did not rule out a larger conspiracy. They only said they found evidence of severe like that existed. How many of you except the main finding of the Warren Commission, namely that oswald shot kennedy . Im surprised. Second, lets reverse it. How many of you do not believe oswald acted alone. How many people believe there were more than one shooters . Either oswald didnt do it or oswald was one of many. The commission concluded that jack ruby also acted alone. How many of you accept that . How many of you think ruby was part of a conspiracy basically to keep oswald from testifying . Fourth question, and after this you can put your arms at rest fourth question is whether you accept or reject the Warren Commission because you believed either that the government is withholding information or that they are deliberately involved in a coverup or they didnt get all the information. How many of you think the Warren Commission failed to get all of the information or is covering up stuff . That there is something out there we havent been told yet. The results are interesting. Polling doesnt always work out. When the Warren Commission was released. Just short of a year 10 months after the assassination itself the overwhelming majority believed the Warren Commission was telling the truth, that the results according to the Warren Commission as they were released at the time said that oswald did it alone, ruby was not part of a conspiracy, and the majority of the americans bought into this. 75 of americans do not believe this. They do not believe the Warren Commission is telling the truth. They believe there is a larger conspiracy. For the sake of this talk im going to use a term used a lot when people talk about the kennedy assassination. That is the term conspiracy theorists. By no means can we say that conspiracy theoristss agree with each other. They believe that there is more to it than Lee Harvey Oswald acting out their at this demented guy standing up in a Texas Book Depository shooting kennedy. It can be anyone who believes. It is the militaryindustrial complex. It is Lyndon Johnson. It is the right wing conspiracy. It is the russians, it is the aliens, it is whoever you think we are going to talk about them too. It is all sorts of different villains in our story. Conspiracy theorists just dont believe it is oswald alone. It has been extremely successful in undermining americas belief that the Warren Commission came out with a correct report. People who accept conspiracy theories in this very intelligent, very informed people, for reasons i dont remember. Secretary of state kerry was asked about the kennedy assassination. To this day i have serious doubts Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. When we are todays caps off there are only two questions i think i work fact are worth asking. Number two, were they acting alone . Those are the only two questions that were really relevant. It would take me a while. If you walk out of here with those two questions that is what we are trying to cover today. The first thing as you approach the kennedy the number of conspiracy theories that are out there. Again, when we talked about lincoln, the number of conspiracy theories that we talked about a few weeks ago, it was secretary of war stanton, it was lafayette c baker, it was the confederacy and jefferson davis, it was thinking interest in new york, it was abolitionist or radical republicans who wanted to control things. It was the Catholic Church we went through a whole number of conspiracy theories on lincoln. There are obviously a lot on kennedy. There are none that im aware of on garfield and mckinley. Garfield and mckinley, two demented human beings shot the president and were immediately apprehended. What next kennedy and lincoln different is the John Wilkes Booth got away for 12 days. How did he get away . Who helped him . And then he was shot, probably by Boston Corbett, so that he could never tested. Testify. Lee harvey also walled, assuming he did the assassination, shot kennedy and got away. It wasnt for a few hours until they picked him up. Maybe someone else in the shooting and got away, and also what was the patsy. And that oswald, who maintained his innocence throughout, was shot by ruby, giving rise to maybe there was someone else. The first thing to look at is conspiracy theories themselves. I must admit, as i did when we talked about lincoln, im prone to accept them. When i first started looking at the lincoln assassination, i was totally convinced that there was a conspiracy, and the John Wilkes Booth was not at the top of it. I have changed my mind, for those of you who are here a few weeks ago, i now believe booth was the guy, there was no one above him, and he was responsible. We will see where we come down on the kennedy assassination. But conspiracy theories themselves are they are fascinating. They are murder mysteries. We all want to know if theres a secret. Theres more to this story than we know, it cant be this one demented guy. There is Something Interesting out there. Everyone likes to know that they are in on the secret. Its a lot more appealing than looking at it as a demented guy doing a terribly stupid thing. Tom stone, who teaches a course on the kennedy assassination at Southern University said i concluded on is what was the only shooter, but i found that telling my students that took the fun out of the assassination for my students. [laughter] prof. Nurnberger we like to know there is something more to the story. Second if there is more to it than a demented guy, a demented nutcase doing this, it has meaning to it. If you are just shot by a lunatic, you are not a martyr. If lincoln is shot because the confederacy wants to do something, he is dying for cause. If kennedy a shot because people dont want him to make peace in vietnam or reach out to cuba there is a bigger cause. If it is in that case, he is not a martyr, he is just dead. That isnt as appealing. Next, is a major figure a lincoln or kennedy is shot by a nonentity, there is an incongruity. If kennedy is shot by the mafia by the cia, by the militaryindustrial complex its a big figure being killed by a big figure. You feel better about it. Its less chaotic. People feel is impossible on the surface to believe that a virtual nonentity, the nebbish you guy, Lee Harvey Oswald using a 19. 95 rifle he bought through the mail and paid 1. 50 for shipping could bring down the leader of the free world. It just doesnt feel right. On a visceral level, people are struck by the incongruity of it. But remember the lowest human being on earth, if he has a gun, can kill someone. Guns are very democratic, and bullets are as well. Another thing is, there are conspiracies. In fact, most of the conspiracy authors were riding in the 1970s. Writing at the time, a lot of conspiracies were coming public. I worked for senator frank church, and the Church Committee was unraveling lots of conspiracies, including the cia, including what we were doing and she lay in chile. There were a lot of conspiracies at the time. Another reason the conspiracy theories are so popular is all the books come all articles dont like the idea of Lee Harvey Oswald is the lone assassin. You sell more books if you come up with a novel idea. It was this, and we will talk about all of thiss. You see why its a lot more appealing to look at it like that. When the Warren Commission first came out, americans bought into it. But then, over the years, all of these conspiracy books and conspiracy articles began to infiltrate into our thought process. And we began to lose faith in the Warren Commission. Probably no other single event or source of conspiracy theories has had a greater impact than oliver stones movie jfk. I was chatting with the young man who works in our firm, and i asked him what do you know about the assassination, and he knew nothing, but he saw the jfk movie and started telling me about it. As if that were true. I will spend a lot of time on that movie towards the end of this talk. Americans now believe there was a conspiracy, they are not sure what it is. But they are pretty sure it wasnt just Lee Harvey Oswald. A good place for us to start before we even look at who shot kennedy and was there a conspiracy is to look at the Warren Commission itself. The Warren Commission presented its report on september 24 1964. Ever since it has done that, and as the american belief and faith in the Warren Commission began to sink, americas belief in our government began to decline. If they are lying to us about this, they are going to be lying to us about Everything Else. And since the Warren Commission came out, we have watergate, we have vietnam we have the lies that got us into the war in iraq. Etc. , etc. Etc. And so conspiracy theorists who talk about the kennedy assassination have a very welcome audience in the tea party, for example, who simply dont trust government. Who dont trust labeling on products for food that you eat. If you begin to question everything, and it began with the Warren Commission its almost a rorschach test. If you cant trust them on this what can you trust the government on. The Warren Commission itself was appointed by Lyndon Johnson to check into to determine what happened in the kennedy assassination. It consisted of seven members. Chief justice of the United States will warn, from the commission is named, was the chairman of it. Senator richard russell, democrat of georgia, senator john sherman cooper, republican of kentucky. Two house members, hale boggs the House Majority whip at the time, i democrat of louisiana and gerald ford, republican of michigan. It was the House Minority leader at the time, and ultimately obviously became president of the United States. Allen dulles, former director of the cia, and john mccoy, former president of the world bank. Incredibly, procedures people. Prestigious people. Those who dont believe the Warren Commission believe that there weretwo conspiracies you have to Pay Attention to. Number one, the conspiracy to kill kennedy. And number two, the conspiracy to cover up the first conspiracy. And so, for example, a conspiracy theorist by the name of jim mars asserts there are two conspiracies. The first was the conspiracy to kill the president , the second conspiracy was the conspiracy to cover up the first conspiracy. The second conspiracy, beginning with the Warren Commission, was committed by officials high within the u. S. Government to hide the truth from the American People. Another conspiracy theorist by the name of Howard Rothman wrote in his book presumed guilty, the Warren Commission engaged in a coverup of the truth and issued a report that misrepresented or distorted almost every relevant fact about the case. A conspiracy theorist named Gerald Mcknight wrote that the Warren Commission members were men intent on deceiving the nation. That was their goal. The commission sanctioned perjury, connived at the destruction of the best evidence, boycotted key witnesses, and a liberally and knowingly suppressed materials and legal documents. Carlo goolsbees book entitled who killed jfk, reflects on commonly held beliefs among conspiracy theorists. Namely the jfk had been killed by conspiracy, not by a lone gunman. He goes on to claim that the u. S. Government, beginning with the Warren Commission, has been and still is covering up that conspiracy. Essentially, he believes that the current federal governments, as well as all the previous ones since 1963, is engaged in a conspiracy to cover up the truth of the assassination. So this is the view of the conspiracy theorists. So lets look at the Warren Commission and see whether or not the conspiracy theorists have a case or leg to stand on. Was the bipartisan Warren Commission guilty of bias . Did it distort evidence . Did a liberally suppress the truth from the American People . We have two questions. First, to the members of the Warren Commission and the subsequent House Select Committee, which from 1976 to 1978 investigated the assassination of kennedy and also of Martin Luther king jr. Deliberately conspire to cover up the true story of what happened . Number one, to the Warren Commission deliberately set out to distort the truth . And number two, even if they didnt deliberately try to distort the truth, did they do such a bad job of research, of investigation, of talking to people, gathering testimony that even if they wanted to tell the truth, they failed because they botched the job for whatever reason . Those are the two questions. Did they try to distort it, and did they have sufficient time, sufficient staff, overall resources. Lets look at number one. Do they deliberately try to cover up what really happened . To accept this view you would have to accept the view that all of the members of the Warren Commission, and all of their lawyers, and all of their staff for some ungodly reason, got together in some smoky backroom where even if it wasnt smoky and decided to distort the truth. That, for whatever reason, they were going to do probably the most dishonorable thing in American History. If they decided to cover up the truth in the process, of course they would risk destroying everything that they had worked for in their entire lives. Their reputation, and their legacies. In addition, if they did decide to do this, they would be putting themselves at risk for prosecution for the crime of accessory after the fact of murder. So ask yourself the following question would warren, for example, risk being remembered as the chief justice of the United States who was an accessory after the fact to the murder of his nations president . And a liberally do this . Deliberately do this . Even asking the question points out how absurd it is. He says these are men of unblemished reputation. The deepest a legion of these men the legions of these men does not lie with men, political party, recurrent cause, it lies with history. Their name and their place in history. That is what they live for in their later years. If they knowingly suppressed or distorted decisive evidence about such an event as the president ial murder, their descendents would pair accused names forever. The notion that they would do this is idiotic. Indeed, why would any member of the Warren Commission, where their staff, stake their own good reputation on a report that they knew was fraudulent . Furthermore, if they are going to deliberately cover up the truth, then someone would have to start this. In other words, lets say a role warren or gerald ford would have to gather everyone together, all the other members, and say we are going to distort the truth. And were going to meet to do this. And they have to make sure, when they go into that room, to plan this, that everyone is going to be on board. And all of their staff is going to be on board. And all of the children and spouses of the staff are going to be on board. And if any of them get a divorce , the angry divorced spouse is going to have to continue to buy into this. Now lets take it little further. The Warren Commission was not the only one to investigate this. There were a number of other investigations. One headed by attorney general ramsey clark. He would have to get all of the doctors who prepared his report to buy into the coverup area the House Select Committee and all of its members, and all of their staff would have to buy into the coverup. Forever and ever. Indeed, not knowing how the other six members of the Warren Commission would respond to whoever started the coverup, i cant imagine what that room would have been like if oral war and called the others in and said ok, we are here to distort the truth. Im not sure that happened. Gerald ford, adding a touch of humor, said the thought that role war and i could conspire on anything is preposterous. Role war and earl warren. They said we were all motivated to find something unexpected, such as another gunman or a hidden conspiracy. It would have made us euros. But these hopes gradually disappeared as the evidence that it was just oswald rolled in. The assistant deputy chief counsel to the House Select Committee said the same thing. Since the validity of the Warren Commissions finding that lee harvey also all was the lone assassin and rested firmly on the validity of the single bullet theory i will ask lynn that in great detail, much more than you ever wanted to know. I will explain that in great detail. They were loath to disprove it. Only one thing prevented us from doing so the evidence. Goodbye fame, goodbye fortune. Kleins inability, and the Warren Commission and the House Select Committee inability to find a conspiracy applies and the desire to find it applies equally to the media. Cbs news anchor dan rather said if i could prove oswald didnt do it, or oswald didnt act alone, it would be the greatest compliment of my career. Everyone would know who i was as of that. Because of that. Lauren wrote warren has ever come forward to expose the ability proves there is no conspiracy to cover it up. Those who believe that all the police, the fbi, the cia, the Warren Commission, everybody who investigated this ultimately tried to cover it up. And was able to keep this a secret for 50 years have to remember a comment by Benjamin Franklin who said i will agree that three people can keep a secret, but only of two of them are dead. For no one to have come out probably means that they didnt go into this process trying to deceive america. That brings us to the next question, which is whether or not they have suppressed evidence. Whether there are testimony whether there is films, whether there is something that they saw that has been stuck into the basement of the gsa basement together with raiders of the lost ark and noahs ark down there waiting for generations to pass before it becomes public. That these critical documents are somehow hidden away there is some truth to that. For while. When the Warren Commission finished in 1964, all of its records were submitted to the National Archives. A few blocks from here. The unpublished documents were sealed for 75 years. Until the year 2039. And so a lot of the conspiracy theorists came to the conclusion that the good stuff, the stuff that proves the conspiracy, they found it and now they hit until 2039. Books have been written on all of these documents that are stored away and we just have to sit patiently and wait until 2039, and we will finally know the truth. Except for a couple of things that have happened since. The 75 year rule no longer exists. The freedom of information act was passed in 1966, and you can have access to it. And then specifically in 1992 the jfk records act was passed by congress. The jfk records act established the assassinations record review board, which was commissioned over the course of six years to release all documents to the public, to allow the public to draw their own conclusions. From 1992 to 1998, the assassinations record review board gathered and unsealed 60,000 documents covering more than 4 million pages. By 1998, at the conclusion of the assassination records review board, all of the Warren Commission records, except for a few minor ones that have tax details in it have been released. There is nothing that the Warren Commission found that is not now available to you if you want to go three blocks from here to the National Archives and start looking for it. With enough Tax Information and one other piece of information that is not available for the public, and that is the autopsy photographs and the xrays. The Kennedy Family asked that these not be made public, except to legitimate scholars, who then get access. The family said that researchers should be allowed to see the photographs of the autopsy, but they should not be made public. I will show you pictures of the murder itself, which is different from the autopsy. Every researcher who has seen these photos and seen the autopsys report has stated there is nothing in these items that would materially change any of the conclusion reached about the assassination. So if we can agree that the Warren Commission and all of the subsequent government efforts to try and find the truth didnt deliberately try to cover it up the next question we have to ask about them is was the research thorough . Did they get access to everything, did they do a good job . Or was it slipshod . One of the first conspiracy theorists, and i must admit it was the first book i read because i came out when i was in college and bought into the stuff for heartedly was a man by the name of mark lane, who wrote a book called rush to judgment, which came out in 1966. I was still in college, i remember rushing out to buy it today can out. The day it became public. It says the Warren Commission was in such a hurry to come out with its report that it did not interview all of the relevant witnesses, did not conduct all the needed tests, including ballistic tests did not review all the permanent documents, in short, mark lane says in his book, the Warren Commission commuted concluded a quick overview, whose conclusions cannot be trusted. In retrospect, it is impossible to take this seriously. The Warren Commission report consists of 26 volumes. A one volume, which is 888 pages yes, i did read it. Its just the summary. The other 25 volumes consist of the first volumes one through 15, its a thousand 82 pages of testimony in small print volume 16 to 26 is 9833 pages of documents and exhibits. They spent nine months going over this. In addition to this, there were hundreds of thousands of additional pages which have been released subsequent to the Warren Commission itself. In addition, the select committee, which was then set up by the house in the mid 70s to investigate further, they added an additional 12 volumes of documents in addition to their one volume report. The commission to direct testimony, affidavits, and statements from 552 witnesses which by the way, is 10 times more than when pearl harbor was being investigated. They met with numerous key witnesses, including the lady in whose home oswald lived and who testified that oswald stored the murder weapon in the garage floor for house. The witness who drove alls well to work on the day of the assassination and saw was walled carry a large package in to work at the Texas Book Depository the witness who was watching the president ial motorcade one floor below oswald, oswald was on the sixth floor. There were two witnesses on the fifth floor. They heard the gun above them and heard the cartridges drop. Witnesses who saw was walled shoot Dallas Police officer judy tibbetts, and expert witnesses who conclusively tied oswald to be assassination by fingerprint, handwriting, photographic firearm analysis and so on. Newsweeks White House Correspondent Charles Roberts in 1967 foot it, the Warren Commission interrogated strip teasers and senators, street origins and psychiatrists, it explored more theories, track down more leads, listen to more rambling witnesses expert and a than any other kind of its history. I will quote Vincent Bugliosi a lot. Whenever i hear someone say the Warren Commission investigation was superficial, i immediately know that person has never read nor worked with the 27 volumes of the commission. And they are just parroting hearsay from some other person who also has an red or worked with the Warren Commission. In addition, there were companion investigations of the assassination by other agencies. For example, the fbi alone conducted by 5000 interviews. And submitted 2300 separate reports. 80 additional fbi agents were ordered to dallas area alone, a total of 3154 items of evidence was introduced before the commission in its investigation. An author observed never in history was a crime probes so intensely, never in history was being korea itself subjected to so much intense scrutiny. Palfreys road in the New York University law review, the commission itself is without rival in its display of investigative energy. A prodigious amount of evidence. And yet, as one of the conspiracy theorists and author accurately says the Warren Commission has become the most vilified factfinding body ever assembled in the United States. But i believe that vilification is probably not warranted. No probably. Is not warranted. One of the people who complain about it, say that the Warren Commission was under intense political pressure to come out with a quick report, and that the decision on what the report should be was told to them in advance. This is invalid, they had nine months, far more time than was necessary to investigate a conclusion which ever one was within a day or two days of the assassination itself new prewell what happened. Knew pretty well what happened. That also while chuck kennedy, and he was shot by jack ruby. The conclusions reached were not rusted all we arrived at them in good time. We did not have a deadline, we publish when we were finished. Some critics of the Warren Commission say they didnt look into conspiracy theories. They only looked into what they were scheduled to look at. Again, not true. The longest chapter in the Warren Commission deals exclusively with conspiracy theories. In some, my views on the Warren Commission is that they did not deliberately tried to cover up anything, they try to investigate to the best of their ability. They did an incredible amount of investigation to try and come up with their conclusion. In addition, a number of other serious investigations by individuals and by Government Agencies all caps the same conclusion. The answer was that they concluded that lee harvey on small was the lone assassin. If you buy into where i have come so far, we have to now finally get to the two questions that we need to discuss. Who shot kennedy, and was there a conspiracy . I will begin by saying Lee Harvey Oswald shot kennedy. The question isnt whether Lee Harvey Oswald shot kennedy, it was was the only one who shot kennedy . Were there more shooters than just Lee Harvey Oswald . My favorite Conspiracy Theory the secret service was behind it. And not just the secret service, the guy who shot kennedy was the driver of the limo. Who got out while driving, got behind kennedy because kennedy was shot from the back, shot kennedy connelly, the other secret Service Agent sitting next to him, drove the car while the first guy was out behind, then the guy came back, took the wheel of the car, and drove to parkland hospital. All while not showing up on the separator film. Zaprude film it. Rmy first favorite is the aliens. An entire book has been written claiming that it was the secret Service Agent doing it. Im not making this up. I know, my students gave me a tshirt, im not making this up im not. Some of the conspiracy theorists, when they look at alls walled say oswald was innocent. That he was framed. That evidence was planted after the fact. That he was a scapegoat for the real killer. That he was a victim of some gigantic web working together to put the blame on oswald. I think we need to look at whether or not it was oswald. Let me quote from bugliosi. When it comes to the guilt of oswald, he wrote the evidence against oswald proves his guilt not just beyond a reasonable doubt, but beyond all doubt, or as they say in the movie, beyond a shadow of a doubt. In other words, not just one or two pieces of evidence pointing towards oswalds guilt, more than 50 pieces point irresistibly towards his guilt. Only in a fantasy world could also be innocent and still have all this evidence against him. I think we can put it this way if i was walled did not kill kennedy, then kennedy wasnt killed on november 22, 1963. You siblings not have this mountain of evidence that oswald had against him and still be innocent. Most of the evidence was compiled by the Dallas Police force. In the immediate aftermath, and then a number of federal agencies, including the fbi and secret service. Let me give you just a few pieces. We dont have time to go and all the evidence against possible. I will try and go into some of it. This is lee harvey on small, obviously, with his wife and their older daughter. Lets begin with ballistics. We know beyond a shadow of a doubt that oswald rifle serial number c 2766 was the murder weapon. The gun used to shoot president kennedy and governor connally. Firearms experts concluded that two large bullet fragments found in the president ial limousine were parts of a bullet fired from oswald gun to the exclusion of all other weapons. Likewise, firings experts found that the whole bullet recovered from a stretcher at the parkland hospital, which was the stretcher on which governor connally was on was fired from oswalds gun to the exclusion of all other weapons. The rifle was discovered if you can see it its right here. Thats recreated, they put it back down afterwards. It was discovered on the sixth floor of the Texas Book Depository building shortly after the shooting ideally plaza. Handwriting experts did that work . Handwriting experts determined that the writing on the purchase order and the money order for the rifle was oswald. The seller had shipped the rifle to oswald po box in dallas. Both the seller and the postal clerk testified to this, as did the postal receipt forms. Oswald purchased the gun. In april, 1963, oswalds wife marina photographed oswald holding the gun. She later testified that she took the photo. In the movie jfk, Kevin Costner portraying jim garrison said they put a different head on this picture. Marine oswald said that she took the photo, and testified to that effect. In addition, he is holding up a newspaper, its impossible to read, but it helps establish the date. Oswald store the gun we are not to the depository at. He stored the gun in the apartment, in the garage next to the apartment where marine oswald was living. At this point, their marriage was not doing well, and they were not living together. She was renting a room from a woman. Also walled visited her only on friday nights. For whatever reason, he showed up on thursday night, night before the assassination. He then handed her his wedding ring, and virtually all his money. He had 170. She was very surprised at this, because he was extremely tight with money, and withheld money and all of a sudden he was giving her everything. Is it possible that he believes he might not see her again . When she heard of the assassination, she immediately decided that it couldnt have been her husband, because her husbands gun was in the garage where she was staying. She then went to the garage where the gun was kept and it was gone. And thats when she realized that it was probably her husband who had done this. As well as right palm print was found on the underside of the rifle barrel. Following the assassination. In addition, tests of fiber found in the rifle were consistent with the colors and fibers of the shirt also was wearing at the time of his arrest. We know that he not only purchased but owned and possessed the subject rifle. Firearms experts have determined that three expended cartridge shells found on the floor of the sixth floor depository building in the southeastern most window of the sixth floor were fired and ejected from oswalds rifle to the exclusion of all other weapons. While oswald rifle and the three expended chills were found on the floor, no other weapons or even shells from another weapon were found anywhere in dealey plaza at that time. If there is no other evidence against oswald, the fact that the murder weapon belonged to him, that there is no evidence or likelihood that anyone else had come into contact or possession of these weapons would be devastating proof of his guilt. Also wont to the Texas Book Depository. Oswald worked at the Texas Book Depository. This is the place where kennedy was shot. The shooting would have been this range here. On the morning of the assassination, he was driven to work by colleague by the name of Wesley Fraser. He testified that also had with him that day a long bulky package, which you put in the rear seat of the car. He asked what was in it, and oswald said curtain rods. A Brown Package of wrapping paper and tape the size that Wesley Fraser said oswald brought with him was found on the morning after the assassination in what was called the snipers nest, the room that alls well was sitting in, where he had put a bunch of boxes so that he could rest is rifle. On these papers, the carton had oswalds prints on it. No curtain rods were found in the building. To Texas Book Depository workers were on the fifth floor, one floor below, where ostwald was at the time. Both of them testify that they heard shots directly above them, and one of them testified that he heard cartridges fall on the floor directly above him. Next, when he heard the first shot, a man by the name of Howard Brennan was sitting directly across from the Texas Book Depository. Circle a indicates where he saw a man at the time of the motorcade. So right here. This picture was taken from his vision. You can see he doesnt have hes not close. He testified that he saw someone who looks like oswald peering out of the window with a gun. He refused to say that he saw as well. He said i was too far away, all he would testify to was that the man he saw with the gun shooting looks like oswald. Conspiracy theorists say if he really identified him, he would have said it was oswald. He refused to go that far. Alls well later said he was not on the sixth floor, despite his prints there, etc. , that he was on the second floor. And he was with a man he identified only as a negro. There were a number of africanamericans who worked at the Texas Book Depository, not one of them was willing to admit that he was with oswald at the time of the shooting, and not one of them said that they were on the second floor at the time of the shooting with oswald. Was the shooting took place, oswald left the building. He was the only member of the staff at the Texas Book Depository not there when they get a roll call of all the people who were working. He had left. A conspiracy theorist author by the name of susan sloat wrote that the reason oswald left the building was he decided that he was going to be blamed for the assassination. Now, how he could have figured that is hard to know, but according to this writer, once the shooting took place, all immediately figured im going to be blamed, i had better get out of here. In their book, high treason authors speculate on and he was being set up to be a patsy, so he decided to go home. Again, hard to know how he reached that conclusion. Also what must the Texas Book Depository and went to the rooming house, where he was staying. He picked up his revolver. 45 minutes after the shooting a Dealey Plaza Oswald likely killed a texas policeman. Age 39 years old at the time. Just one mile away from the rooming house. A woman by the name of helen mark and identified oswald is the man she saw shoot him. Another man named jack tatum testified he saw as well chewed tidbit. Shoot tidbit. Another man lost sight of him and shrubbery, then he heard the fatal shot and that he saw oswald runaway. Two sisters running the virginia and Barbara Davis identified all as well as the man they saw running across their front lawn after they heard the shots. In total, there were at least 10 witnesses who testified they either saw the murder or a vital part of the crime. Alls well and, after the assassination or murder of tidbit went to the texas theatre where he snuck in without pain. This got the woman who was the ticket taker to call the police, because someone had snuck into the theater. He had a gun on him. The gun was a 38 smith wesson. Handwriting experts confirm the mailorder coupon for the revolver was in the handwriting of Lee Harvey Oswald. The seller of rollover of the revolver testified he sent this revolver to Lee Harvey Oswald po box. Firearms experts for the Warren Commission and the select committee concluded the bullets recovered from the body of jd tidbit were fired from this gun to the exclusion of all others. At the time of his arrest, alls well loaded in his possession the revolver used to kill the officer. Bugliosi, again, to quote him because the book is so good, asks what are the odds that the person who purchased and owned the weapons that murdered both kennedy and tidbit would be innocent of both murders . Hard to argue with that. When alls well was arrested at the theater, he got into a policeman. Oswald was arrested at the theater, he got into a fight with a policeman. He said something to the effect of now it is over. A pair of an test was performed on his hand to determine if he had recently fired a gun. The result was positive. If oswald not kill tidbit, who did. This is a major flaw in conspiracy theorist, they cant seem to come up with someone else who shot tidbit, in fact they tend to ignore it. I dont remember when i read the Warren Commission if they went into this the select committee i do remember concluded oswald killed tidbit while he was attending to flee the scene of the kennedy assassination. Oswald was then arrested. You can see he has marks on his face from being beaten by the police. There is so much more evidence against oswald, including the lies he told when he was arrested. He made no effort to defend himself, when he was asked about the gun, he could have said yes i owned a gun, but someone took it. Its not my possession, instead he said i never owned a gun. There was obvious evidence he did own a gun, including his wife saying of course he owned a gun. And the receipts that he had for the gun. Often, when a person is arrested for a crime, people who know him will either say yeah, im not surprised that its him, or say i am so surprised at sam, i cant believe that he would do that. No one said i dont think he did it, everyone said probably was him. In fact, his Brother Robert issued a statement the facts are all there. I say people who want to distort the facts what do you do with a rifle, what do do with the pistol . To me cant reach but one conclusion. There is hard physical evidence there. Its good that people raise questions and say wait a minute, lets take a second look at this. I think thats great. But when you take a second look and a third look, and a 40th look at the 50th look, its enough. Is there, put it to rest. He was my kid brother. If i had the facts that he was innocent i would be out there shouting aloud and clear. But it is my belief, my conviction, that no one else but lee was involved. In terms of motives, i will go back to bugliosi. He mentioned all as well as propensity for violence. And again, be aware that oswald tried to assassinate Major General Edmund Walker seven months earlier. Two months before the kennedy assassination, he threatened to blow up the fbi building. He has a tendency for violence again, bugliosi describes oswald as emotionally and psychologically unhinged. He was bitter and frustrated, beatendown loser who felt alienated because he could not get along with anyone, including his wife. He irrationally viewed himself in a historical light, having visions of grandeur and changing the world. He hated his country and its representatives to the extent that he defected to one of the most undesirable leases in the world. When he found he was unwelcome there, he came home and remain unhappy. Whether or not you are willing to believe, as the Warren Commission and the select committee came out with, that on was the lone gunmen oswald was the lone gunmen, at least you will believe he was one of the gunmen, and we will look at whether there were others as well. We can look at exactly what happened. Unlike the lincoln assassination, and the garfield assassination, and the mckinley assassination, where i put up artists renderings, what artists thought the scene looked like, their pictures and drawings and paintings in this case i can show you exactly what happened. Because it was filmed. It was filmed by this man, abraham separator zapruder. When it first became public, it was immediately touted by conspiracy theorists as proof that there was a conspiracy. They looked at this film and they said they didnt look at the film itself as much as each individual picture in the film. They said if you look at each individual picture, it proves that there was more than one gunmen. Until the whole film was released. An proof that there was only one gunmen. Then the conspiracy theorists said the film is a hoax. One of them referred to it as the most sophisticated forgery in the 20th century. Carol livingston called the biggest house in the 20th century. So now we need to look at the zapru film of. Der the former project engineer for kodak was requested by the assassinations review board to undergo a technical examination of the zapruder film. He concluded there was no detectable evidence of manipulation or alteration of the film in either its original or its it in its copies. There are three copies in the original. In 2007, 2008, a computer animator and an assassination researcher said reviewed the film and said it would have never been tampered with as well. I will talk about their studies in a few minutes. So what is the story behind the film . Abraham separator was born in 1905 zapruder. In 1920, as a of turmoil, the family moved to the United States. They immigrated originally to brooklyn. He studied english at night found work as a clothing pattern maker in manhattans garment district. In 1941, separator the separator zap moved to dallas. Ruder his offices were located in the dow six building, next door to the Texas Book Depository. Zapruder owned a camera, he bought it a year before the assassination in 1952. At the time, it was the topoftheline movie camera that individuals could buy. He did not bring the camera to work on the day of the assassination. His assistant said why not you go home and get your camera and see if you can get some film of the parade. And so he did. At the insistence of his assistant, he went home and retrieved the camera before going to dealey plaza to watch and fill the motorcade. He waited atop a concrete pedestal for the motorcade passed by. His receptionist, a woman by the name of marilyn zisman steadied him from behind and he began filming as soon as the president s motorcade turned on downstream in front of the Texas Book Depository. As you can see, the president s car. The film itself consists of 486 frames of codec chrome kodak film. After the assassination, he bumped into a Dallas Morning News reporter by the name of Harry Mccormick and told the reporter that he thought he had filmed the assassination. The reporter then went to get a secret Service Agent and they went to separate her zap router zapruders office. They made three copies, and made the original. He kept the original and one copy, the secret service took two copies. That night, zapruder received a phone call from the editor of life magazine who wanted to buy the film. Life magazine purchase the rights to the film for a total of 150,000, which is 1. 25 million in todays dollars. Zapruder gave 25,000, about 200,000 in todays money to the widow of the officer who was shot. Although this is not the only film of the assassination, it is by far the best and the most complete, and it gives a very clear view from an elevated position, from the side of the president s head from which you can see the wound as it comes. It became an important part of the Warren Commissions study of the assassination, as well as the select committee study, as well as every conspiracy theorist studied of the events. Before going to the film, let me show you the model of where they think the shots were fired. There were three shots fired and again, as you can see, the first was here, and it missed very the second one here probably, and again, i will use the word probably, but im totally convinced that what im telling you is correct this is the one that hit kennedy in the neck, and then probably went through kennedy and hit the governor. The third hit kennedy in the back of the head and was the fatal shots. The next thing you need to look at is where people were sitting in the car. Kennedy and jackie were in the backseat, jackie was sitting to his left. Sitting directly in front of them, were not directly but in front of them was governor conley and his wife. Heres a secret Service Agent who somehow was able to jump behind, shoot them, come back not show up on the film. This is where they are sitting. Now it is time to discuss the keyframes in the film. The single greatest notoriety in the zapruder film is frame number 313. It is such an awful picture that when zapruder sought for the first time, he insisted that life magazine could publish all the pictures except frame 313. He said 313 cannot be shown to the American People. As a result, when the zapruder film was published by life magazine frame 313 was not included. As a result, people immediately said this proves [no audio] prof. Nurnberger we know it because its in the picture we havent seen. Trust our imagination, because whilst with a coverup are picture this picture . From their perspective, what is more likely to be the truth when the picture becomes real . Something that you can clearly see, were a figment of the imagination of someone who wants to prove a case . [no audio] prof. Nurnberger draw your own conclusions. There were three other films taken of the assassination. People dont focus on them very much. They are not nearly as valuable as the separate her film zapruder film. They are further away, cloudy, and the key figures in the bronx and film are so unclear that it sometime hard choice identify whats happening. Other frames are obstructed by spectators, and the next film doesnt start until the third shot. Otherwise, it seems to confirm everything in the zapruder film. It is 486 frames, it runs at 18. 3 frames per second. Therefore, is not just a film of what happened, it is a clock of what happened. And therefore we can exactly know what is happening as each frame goes forward. Before we look at the images of the zapruder film, be aware that three shots rang out. Kennedy was hit by two bullets. The first bullet entered the back of the head excuse me entered the neck here, and probably went through and hit conley. The second bullet that hit him hit him in the back of the head and came out the front. Viewing kennedy from the back, there is the first bullet that entered, heres the second bullet then, heres the exit. Thats what were going to see when we look at the films. In order to see what happened medically, attorney general ramsey clark had a separate investigation done in 1968. Only of physicians, who look to the various photographs, the xrays come the films, the documents and the clark panel came out and said that the Warren Commission is correct in how they view the zapruder film, and what happens to kennedy. Supporters of the Warren Commission say a panel of doctors viewing this proves the Warren Commission is correct. Conspiracy theorists say ramsey clark was Lyndon Johnsons attorney general, all of those doctors bought into the conspiracy, even though they joined it late, and therefore they too are part of the overall conspiracy and coverup. Ok. Now its time to look at some of the pictures. This is frame 225, the first frame that clearly shows kennedy was hit. At first, even the Warren Commission believed that kennedy and conley were hit by two separate bullets. The zapruder film through a ranch in the tuple of the timing. Its a clock. According to the Warren Commission, kennedy was shot somewhere between frames to 10 and 225. Connelly was hit before frame to 40. In other words, they were hit no more than 30 frames apart. The fbi tests that alls waltz could not shoot quicker than once every 2. 25 seconds. Zapruder in in zapruders film translates to frames. They were either two gunmen, and those two gunmen shot at almost exactly the same moments but not quite or there was one gunman whose bullet went through kennedy and then went through conley. Its either one gunman or two gunmen, based on the zapruder film. The Warren Commission argued the latter, that there was only one gunman. In 1993, abc news decided to conduct a 10 year study of this. They released it in 2003. On the 40th abc news concluded that connally was hit in frame 237. If this is true, it would verify the singlebullet every. The singlebullet theory is the key to understanding the whole Warren Commission and assassination report that oswalt was the only one. The Commission Says the bullet that killed kennedy, which they consider Warren Commission exhibit 399 caused all the wounds to the governor and the wounds to the neck of the president. It passed through president kennedys neck, went through connallys chest and risk, and it embedded itself in his thigh. Discovery channel did a series called beyond the magic will. I will talk about the magic bullet in a minute. To discuss how one bullet may have traversed between the two some dont believe it was one bullet and said it was magic. The discovery channel, and order to try to figure out if it was possible for one bullet to go through kennedy and connally put together two manikins, animal skin gelatin and put them in position in a car which was the car in which they were sitting. A rifle was fired, using the same ammunition. The bullet was followed by highspeed photography. It duplicated almost exactly the wounds suffered by kennedy and connally. When they did it in reverse they found that the bullet had to come from a window at or close to the sixth floor. The results were shown in 2003 in an abc documentary. It won an emmy award that year. To render the animation, mr. Myers took photographic home footage and blueprints to reenact the whole thing. Then they did a computerized reproduction of this and came to the same conclusion. In the abc documentary, they point out in frames 223 and 224, the right lapel of governor connallys jacket pops out. The commission determined this was the impact of the bullet. Here is frame 237. You see kennedy is moving his hand up to his throat. Obviously, the single bullet theory is criticized by those who believe oswald was not the lone shooter. They say for the single bullet to have been the case, the trajectory would have gone through kennedy, and then after it passed through kennedy, made a right termturn, right turn, it connally, made a left turn, and then after that it takes another right turn. They say that only happens a road runner cartoon. They are correct. Bullis do not change direction three times, or one time. The one thing wrong with this that is not where connally was sitting. If you look at where connally was sitting, it is a straight shot. Connally was sitting slightly to the left. Kennedy was leading over to the right. Connally was three inches below and connally was leaning at the time of the shot, looking over to his right side and the jfk film makes an enormous point of the magic will it magic bullet. Shame on them. By then it was nowhere connally was sitting. The abc program it was known where connally was sitting. The abc program used the car and they came to the conclusion that it could have been oneshot had they been aligned the way they are. There is no need for a magic bullet. Next we have zapruder film frame 312. This is the frame where kennedy is hit and it is the frame just before you will see the evidence of why it was pretty clear he was hit from behind and above. It is pretty horrifying, so apologies. This is frame 313. You can see blood coming out the front. Can see it spatters so much that in 312, you can see jackie. In 313 it is no longer there. When you go further if i had the capability, but i dont, my powerpoint skills are not good enough. In frame 312 the head moves forward and in 313 moves forward even more. In frame 314 and it is hard to tell this, but you can see it if they were on top of each other the head jerks back. If you are hit in the back of the head, the head goes forward and muscle jerks it back. Conspiracy theorists were upset by 313 when it became public. It does not show that he was hit from the front. They show 314 and 315 and ignore 313. Let me get rid of these pictures. They are awful enough. Oswald after the arrest, you can see his face is slightly beaten. Those who object to oswald shooting kennedy had three objections. They claimed he was not a good enough marksman. They say that the gun did not shoot fast enough, and number three, they say that he may have shot at the president , that someone else did as well. There was a second shooter possibly on the socalled grassy knoll. Those who believed oswald did not do it or did not do it alone , he was not good enough, the gun was not good enough, and there was someone else. Lets look at each of these. Jim garrison, the District Attorney in louisiana in his book on the trail of assassins, Lee Harvey Oswald was a poor shot with a repeated bad investigation of marksmanship. This is repeated constantly. He did not read the Warren Commission straight commission. On the simmer 21, 1956, oswald shot a 212 with his m1 rifle making him a sharpshooter. He had the ability. Conspiracy theorists say no one especially a shooter, has maybe to duplicate what oswald did that time. Again, they are wrong. Anthony summers in his book says in subsequent tests no professional marksman was able to achieve what oswald allegedly did. The movie jfk did this all the time. If you look at page 446 of volume three of the Warren Commission, a specialist miller of the u. S. Army using oswalds gun not only duplicated what he did, but better and faster. It was possible. Oswald could have done it. The gun was capable of doing it. Conspiracy theorists say the gun was not good enough. How can you use a gun that cost 90 and . 95 to kill the president . He claimed thecarcano was a piece of junk that lacked zip. The army testfired oswalds rifle 47 times and found it to be accurate. That brings up a third point. Someone else in addition to oswald or separate from oswald did the shooting and that if they did this, they did it at the grassy knoll. The grassy knoll i have been to the place a number of times. As you go down elm street, it is oftf to the right. One tv reporter called it the grassy no. Grassy knoll has become a phrase that indicates suspicion or cover up. The initial reaction of people was to throw themselves to the ground. There were witnesses who say they heard gunshots at the grassy knoll but there were no eyewitnesses. In the movie jfk, there were a lot of people, actors, of course said i saw someone should from the grassy knoll. There was no eyewitnesses. There were earwitnesses. The reverberations could have led people to believe that the sound came from the grassy no. First person they believed was a shooter at the grassy knoll was the umbrella man. The umbrella man is over here. The umbrella man was close to the bystanders and they said one or three things for you was carrying an umbrella, and the weather was beautiful. Therefore it was a trick umbrella and would shoot a paralyzing ray towards the president so he could be paralyzed to be an easier target. Im not making this up. Or he would open the umbrella to a signal to the shooter. Or it was a james bond device where the umbrella itself was a gun. There is a book about the umbrella man being the assassin of kennedy. Really problem is the only problem is the umbrella man is named louis witt. He brought the umbrella to protest. The next is a photo of a woman named mary morgan. This photo to conspiracy theorists, they see the assassin over here. I have enlarged it. This is the assassin. My vision is not very good, but this is the picture they look at and they say this proves that the assassin was at the grassy knoll and here is a photo of it. Again the next thing that conspiracy theorists believe that the bullet entered the front of the windshield, but when the car was looked at the markings on the windshield were from the inside, not the outside. It is unlikely that the shot was taken from the front. This now brings us to the question of conspiracy theorist. They dont like the idea that oswald was the lone gunmen, because when you have a conspiracy fbi cia, procastro cubans anticastro cubans, you pick it, they would take someone like Lee Harvey Oswald to be the assassin. Again, it is hard to believe that they would pick a Lee Harvey Oswald, but he is the assassin and they dont like that idea. Then you have to get rid of him. That brings us to the next figure in the story. Jacob leon rubenstein, who changed his name to jack ruby. He was born in chicago in 1911. His parents were orthodox jews. He had a troubled childhood marked by juvenile the liquid c. In 1947, ruby and his brother moved to dallas and change the name to ruby, because they were running a mail order business and thought that people might not want to buy from jews. He managed strip clubs and dance halls, developed close ties with the Dallas Police, for who he provided liquor, prostitutes and other things. Oswald went to cuba. A mafia figure was also there. Both ruby went to cuba. A mafia figure was also there. Conspiracy theorists claim that if they were both in cuba four years before kennedy was even elected, they must have been plotting the assassination or developing a friendship at that time. Ruby winds up, on november 24 at 11 21, shoots oswald as he was being escorted to be moved to another prison. This may be the first live murder carried on Like Television in World History. At the time of the shooting, ruby was taking stimulants to deal with a Central Nervous problem. He was arrested immediately. He only made it by chance. One of the strippers at his club needed money. He was at the Western Union shop trying to get her money. There were three people in the line in front of them and i believe one of them last, which means he was able to get to the counter sooner. That left him time to shoot oswald. If he had stayed in the line any longer, he would have been late. People say there was a great plot with ruby involved, but they leave things for chance. He made it with seconds or minutes to spare. He explained that he did this to prove that dallas was a good place, that all killing in dallas was a bad thing, and he wanted to redeem the city. He was extremely depressed and a great admirer of kennedy. He did not want jackie to testify. He did not want oswald be able to claim insanity and he also wanted to show america that jews love their country. Those were his reasons for the warren reasons. The warren conspiracy show that oswald and ruby had never met before this moment. Others were convinced that the Warren Commission has withheld the private conversation, the transcript of the private conversation that two had when they never met. This is part of the overall wider cover up. Ruby was pegged as the men sent to kill oswald so he could not testify. He is the equivalent in the lincoln assassination of Boston Corbett shooting John Wilkes Booth, so we never got to hear what he had to say. The next thing is, did ruby have ties to the mafia . He had a lot of underground ties. He dealt with criminals. Ruby had significant associations and direct and indirect content with underworld figures and the dallas criminal element, but he was not a member of organized crime. People who knew ruby said no one in his right mind would have picked oswald to do this. A reporter who knew him well said it would be impossible to keep a secret from where the five minutes. He was the most talkative fellow you ever met. Youd be the worst part for a conspiracy because he plane just talked to much. He is convicted by a dallas jury and sentenced to death. He appeals his conviction, saying he should not have been tried in dallas and his effort to try to get a retrial is agreed upon. They decide to retry him and he gets ill. Use taken Department Hospital he is taken to the hospital at and they realize he has cancer of the liver, lungs and the brain. He died where kennedy had been taken after he was shot. His final statement was there is nothing to hide, there was no one else. I did this alone. Conspiracy theorists, pick your favorite culprit. Take your pick. Whoever did this, you have to be impressed with them. They are really good. They put together a plot to kill the president of the United States. It is so efficient that there is no physical or ballistic evidence that ever materialized, no killer ever conferences ever confesses, no critical witnesses come forward, no one saw it happen. The plot is good that thousands of investigators cannot find proof of it. Lets assume that they are so good and so efficient that everyone who has been involved has been able to keep this a secret for 50 years. Then you wonder, why would they pick Lee Harvey Oswald and jack ruby, these two coupe bizarre characters, to carry it out . And why would these guys do it for free . Lee Harvey Oswald has less than 200 to his name, of which he gives 170 to marina the day before. There is no proof that anyone paid them to do anything. They are good, wherever this conspiracy theorist is. It was estimated that there were over 40 groups of assassins, and 240 people accused of being involved. We do not have time to go over all of them, so i will mention the major ones. Militaryindustrial complex. People who believe the militaryindustrial complex believe that people who were making weapons were upset that kennedy wanted to end the war in vietnam and wanted to make peace with cuba, and it is bad for business. They felt they needed to get rid of kennedy for that reason. The next, anticastro cuban and silence. Fidel castro came in 1959. Thousands of cubans left, made to the United States, and are angry at kennedy for the failure of the bay of pigs invasion and the failure of kennedy to take action against castro, and therefore they are trying to get rid of him. In a book titled miami, it is said that the anticastro cubans who were behind the assassination of kennedy. The procastro cubans, that castro was angry at kennedy, the kennedy brothers try to an to assassinate him and that he was behind it. He gave an interview in 1977. It would have been absolute insanity for me or cuba to be involved in this. We run the risk air country is destroyed by the United States. No one sane would have thought about killing kennedy. I certainly did not. Next, Lyndon Johnson. 2003, a gallup poll indicated that 20 of americans believed thenVice President johnson was behind the assassination because he disliked the kennedys he did and that he was afraid that he would be dropped from the ticket in 1964. Johnson was accused of being the lead part in the conspiracy, involving dallas oligarchy and oil money. 2003, a book was published called blood, money, and power, saying Lyndon Johnson was fearful that the kennedy brothers were going to expose various scandals that he was involved in and therefore a Texas Attorney named edward clark, using oil money from texas, was behind the assassination. This becomes the base of a program the History Channel air. It was entitled the men who killed kennedy or go one program kennedy. One program featured johnson. There was a normas anger there was enormous anger for. The History Channel ultimately apologizes to the Johnson Family and said when they air the rest of the series, its is one segment they will never air again. The cia. Maybe the cia is involved. A number of authors came to this conclusion. This one really intrigues me. If the cia was involved, i have an image of someone sending around a memo at langley. There will be a meeting tuesday or wednesday. The subject re assassinating the president. Organized crime. There are a bunch of different books on this. Contracts on america sounds like Newt Gingrich claims that jimmy hoffa ordered the assassination. David gaiser suggests that. Jesse ventura wrote a book they killed our president , in which he also said it was the mafia working together with cubans. Bill bonnano said that mafia families were involved. History channel series ive mentioned before, the men who killed kennedy, as a segment where they refer to the mafia. A man named Christian Davis was interviewed and said he was offered the contract to kill kennedy and turned it down. Instead, three other mafia members were the assassins. Two were still alive and would probably kill him. They said that they rthen they then got ruby to shoot him. If he was a silencer, why did he shoot him in the stomach wednesday to the head or the heart . Ruby did not know he would go into shock and not speak. If you silence someone, shoot them in the head or the heart. If the mafia is behind it, they have better gunmen to do it. The israeli government. What the hell . A book by Mike Michael Parker says the assassination was planned and plotted by David Bengurion because im not making this up who says they were angry at kennedy for trying to limit israels development of Nuclear Weapons and allege a gangster was involved and also the antidefamation league. Enough of the nonsense conspiracy theories. Lets hear a nonsense conspiracy. Jim garrison and oliver stone. Jim garrison 66 prosecutor in new orleans with an ego to match. He began investigating in 1966 and came to the conclusion that it was a rightwing extremist plot to kill kennedy together working with the cia in the overall conspiracy. The reason was the cia was angry that kennedy wanted to get out of vietnam and possibly make peace with cuba. Lee Harvey Oswald, according to garrison, did not fire a single shot. The fact that Lee Harvey Oswald was a procastro marksman and it was a rightwing plot, claims garrison, is proof they got the right guy because he was masquerading as a leftwinger but was actually a rightwinger. Garrison never explained that if you was a rightwe are, when he tried to kill general walker. He claimed that oswald was a poor marksman and that it had never been investigated. It certainly was investigated. Garrison then claims that kennedy was shot by a precision guerrilla team of at least seven men who were located on the grassy knoll, the Texas Book Depository, and that held x building. One person fired a shot at another one picked up the router there were 14 people. I dont make this up. Lee Harvey Oswald, any new orleans businessmen in the name of clay shaw, and another man by the name of david ferry. Clay shaw was a cultured, urbane man in new orleans. He was one of the most respected people in new orleans. He had been named one of the top 35 citizens of new orleans. He was a world war ii hero. He was one of the founders of the new orleans trademark, a major feature in the revitalization of the french quarter. He had a dinner a number of times of winston churchill. He was Close Friends with the writer tennessee williams. The one thing people did not know about clay show was that he was a homosexual and that becomes important in a few minutes. The third key figure in garrisons world was david ferry, who was a manic depressive, cartoonish figure who were a homemade weekend fake eyebrows bit he was a commercial pilot for fake eyebrows. He was a commercial pilot and became a psychologist without a license, a selfstyled clergyman, and it private researcher who was very close to finding a cure for cancer, and he had white mice running around his apartment. Garrison gave a Television Interview in which he claimed the cia knew exactly the names of the people involved in the assassination. He appeared on Johnny Carsons the tonight show and claimed the cia was behind the investigation. His bestselling book claims that shops connection to the cia shaws connection to the cia was the key to understanding that. The key to understanding shaw was his homosexuality. He said this was a gay cabal and that shaw, ruby, and oswald were homosexuals. Shaw was. Oswald probably was not. When he was told he had two kids, he said he was probably a switch hitter. [laughter] clay show was arrested and charged with the assassination of kennedy. Was the only person ever charged. They searched his house and found evidence. They found his net hat and blackfoot and kate. They were part of his mardi gras costumes come which proves this was a homosexual plot to kill kennedy. The trial went on. There were 35 days of testimony. In less than an hour shaw was declared innocent and the case was thrown out. Garrison never mentioned the word cia and it was never brought up. Even conspiracy theorists think that garrison was awful. In his book six seconds in dallas, garrisons claims were completely irrational. Garrisons book was on the bestseller list and the New York Times bestseller list for 13 weeks and had 20 printings. Oliver stone read the book and decide to make his movie based on garrison and use garrison as the key figure in the book. The threehour movie cost 40 million to make and warner bros. Spent an additional 15 million and 20 million on a publicity campaign. Here is check ruby jack ruby. Why do we get to that . Here is garrison. You have seen the picture of johnson. I should have shown it earlier. Jackie Kennedy Still has blood on her outfit. Here is garrison, and heres all over stone. The movie has earned probably in excess of 200 million. I sought about three weeks ago on cable. Viewers tend to assume its real , when you have actors like kevin coster and tommy lee jones, who was nominated for Academy Awards for best supporting actor for a role, kevin bacon, jack lemmon, joe pesci, sissy spacek, that as there when you have a cast like this, sissy spacek, ed asner. When you have a cast like this, you think it is real. The Washington Post wrote that garrisons investigation is a frog. George willt wrote garrisons investigation is a fraud. George willt wrote that it was falt. Mark lane, the godfather of conspiracy theorist, said stone repeatedly falsified the record. The attacks on stones movie the most recent one i saw was may 1. Charles court hammer had a piece in the Washington Post in which he said all the stones paranoid and libelous jfk will be harmless and 50 years, but it will take that long for the stench to dissipate. What is wrong with it . I dont have three hours. Stone claims it is history. He claimed that every detail was researched and can be documented. Most of it is based on jim garrison, who is been completely discredited even to the conspiracy community. What is wrong with it . The premise is wrong. Garrett is depicted as an honesty eight only interested in the truth. That as an honest d. A. Only interested in the trip. Not true. He was told they needed to intimidate witnesses to develop a case. Garrisons bizarre sexual interpretation is never mentioned in the movie. The film also never mentions garrisons believe that an assassin popped out of a sewer to shoot kennedy and ran through them like in les mis. You can see kevin coster in the back using the magic bullet. Uses that. He makes no effort to say anything about oswald. There is no ballistic evidence about all his walls, no carrying the gun in. He implies that oswald was trying to tell the fbi that the assassination was about to happen, that oswald is a good guy. At the end of the movie oswalds widow and daughter comes to the grave and they have sad music. Who is behind the assassination, according to stone . Garrison meets a highlevel feature in washington who identifies himself as x. Is donald sutherland. He says the Warren Commission is fiction. The assassination was really planned by members of the cia the mafia, the military industrial complex, the secret service, the fbi, and Vice President johnson. It is in a book and his question is, where did they meet to plan this . He suggests maybe Madison Square garden. To show you how awful this movie is, guess who he has playgirl worn playing earl warren . Garrison. Yeah ugh. They learn of the assassination through this movie. I began by putting forth to questions. Who shot kennedy, connally and was there a conspiracy . And then the coverup. Time addressed this the past september, the 50th anniversary, and i will do something i normally dont do and i will read something a little long. We have known the truth for 50 years, but many continued to deny the facts. Half a century ago the Warren Commission released its 888page report including concluding that lee harvey also acted alone. Exhausting investigations have backed up that original finding that oswald acted alone. Consider a few of the many factory oswalds carcano boltaction rifle with his fingerprints on it was found in the book depository, where he had built a sniper nest. Three books their match what 80 of witnesses reported hearing three shots. Tests with the rifle found that three shots for possible in the amount of time he had. It was the same rifle he purchased imail order in 1963. Staff saw him exit after the assassination. He went home and left again, shortly after which it was stopped. He shot tippet dead. The police were summoned and they found oslo. He attempted to shoot but the gun failed. Some conspiracy theories are real. When one mistake and pattern on mistaken pattern goes on for 50 years, it is time to let the president rest. The only thing we can focus on is the sadness of this, the tragedy of it, and i wish we had time to go into the political consequences. There is one thing we can agree on the sadness for the family as well. I have gone on much too long and would be glad to answer some questions. [applause] yes, sir. There is no mic. We are alone today. Ah there is a mic. The gentleman in the middle. Other than the cspan 3 audience, we are alone. My other hope is that future historians will never have more than four of these to talk about. [laughter] what is the alien Conspiracy Theory, and what was garrisons motive for this whole trial . Prof. Nurnberger the alien one is people joking about it. There is nothing to go into. It is that outer space people came. It is nonsense. I am a historian, not a psychiatrist. I can tell you what his motive was. He thought he was going to find the truth. He thought that the government was covering it up. 75 of American People do not believe the Warren Commission today and believe there was conspiracy. He believed that as the da, he would find this. Yes, sir. I remember in being a reporter, maybe it was the house investigation, that there was an open microphone that perhaps heard another shot. Prof. Nurnberger yes. I did not go into that for time concerns. There was a policeman who had a dictaphone attached to his thing. If you listen to it, it sounds like a fourth shot. The House Select Committee in the report said they were not sure if it was a fourth shot or if it was the sound of his motorcycle as he was going. It is unclear. Most people tend to think it is the motorcycle, not a fourth shot. Conspiracy theorists buy into the fourth shot. Excellent point. Thank you. Can you hear me . I have two questions. After kennedy was shot by the first bullet that went through his throat, do experts think he was knocked unconscious . Second question relates to the watergate and nixon tapes. What do they discuss about the kennedy assassination . Prof. Nurnberger i have no idea about the second, whether in nixons tapes it was discussed. I have not run across it. I dont have an answer for you on kennedy. He was shot so quickly after the first shot that im not sure that his cognizance in that brief second made much difference. I dont know. I cant give that answer. We have seen for you seen video footage that differ shot may have been deflected by a lamppost. Prof. Nurnberger the first shot . Yeah, that is very true. It did not hit anything of importance. He was going under the sign, and that is possibly where it went. Makes perfect sense. Does the subsequent disappearance of neil boggs and jimmy hoffa play into any wonderful theories by any of these creative people . [laughter] prof. Nurnberger i have no clue. What a great question. The subsequent disappearance of help boggs, cookie roberts in an airplane disappearance. Jimmy off i has not disappeared. I believe he is under the 50 yard line at giants stadium. I have no idea. It is a great question. We can speculate on it, but i have no idea. Are u. S. Positive about Robert Kennedys death then you are about jfks death . Prof. Nurnberger i have not studied it as much. Robert kennedy was shot june 5 in 1968. He was shot by a palestinian named sirhan sirhan. Sirhan sirhan, probably the first active Palestinian Terrorist in the United States and it was exactly one year after the sixday war in which israel gained five pieces of territory. The west Bank Jerusalem sinai gaza, and the Golan Heights which led to great anger among palestinians, which led to syrian sirhans anger. I have not a great detail that. I have not put any great of detail into that. On the autopsy photos, i heard they did not want to release some of it because they were waiting for rose kennedy to die. Prof. Nurnberger she has. Yes, are they waiting for Caroline Kennedy to die . Prof. Nurnberger i dont know the answer to that. I have not heard about anything on releasing the autopsy report. There was confusion on the autopsy because it was conducted here instead of dallas. Those who have seen them, and i have not, and if i did, i would not understand them, say they do not change anything in terms of our understanding of the crime itself. I have no idea when they will be released, if ever. You kept saying that the 75 dont believe in the lone gunmen or however you want to put it. Im trying to think how to say this. The younger do younger people tend to believe the conspiracy as opposed to older people, people who came of age after watergate and all of those other after all our information about the things the government has done. Prof. Nurnberger that is an excellent question that i again cannot give you a good answer. All i said was the result of 75 in the latest gallup poll. There has been a real erosion of trust in this country about our government, in terms of foreign policy, domestic policy. Take a look at what is going on in texas right now. Exactly. Its not just texas. Throughout the country, there is greater cynicism of government officials. Obviously, a belief that they are lying about the kennedy assassination is just further proof that they lied to us. They the big they, that they lied to us. Is there evidence or speculation about what we Harvey Oswalds motives were . He did not seem insane. He didnt want to be famous, because he was trying to get a way. He was in russia. Are the records fronm his time therem from his time there . Prof. Nurnberger there is speculation, but he did not write a note saying this is why i am doing this. I think it is just a deranged mind. He was very unhappy, a loner and this was his moment in history. I cant give you a good answer for that. He has a bizarre past. He serves in the marines and goes into russia, marries for mina marries marina, does not have a good marriage, never makes a golden back here, has an odd mother, for lack of a better way to describe her, who wan ts to make money off of this, no real friends a lonertype. I hide behind this. I am a historian, not a psychiatrist. I cant give you a good answer to your excellent question of what motivated him to do this. I dont have a good answer. Yes, in the back, and you in the front. I wondered if you would agree that president kennedy did not take adequate precautions in dallas and that the secret service did not. He issued instruction that the secret service should not be on the running boards of his limousine or the back bumper and it was more important for him to be seen that day. I sadly concluded that he was living life recklessly and the secret service got too arrogant. Why did they not tell him that we are here to protect you. An open car in dallas they had an open car in dallas. It seemed like it was an invitation for bad things to happen prof. Nurnberger happen. Prof. Nurnberger i agree. It does look reckless as the rest of his personal behavior. From women, to the way he behaved. His health was never good so he probably did not think i may as well do this, i may as well behaved like this. Your other point is correct. He went into dallas, into texas because they were very concerned about the 1964 election. That is why he wanted the open car. He wanted to be seen. He wanted to be out doing stuff. I agree with every point you made. The secret service, yes, they should have said you are in a closed carpet we are in the city. We see obama driving by all the time. He is not in an open car and he is not driving himself. It has changed dramatically since then. Why dont we take two more questions . Claudios has have one. I was just wondering of how you think jfks legacy, of camelot and the legacy left behind, was colored by the assassination. Prof. Nurnberger totally. The question is, how much of his legacy is colored by the assassination6 kennedy was not as effective is colored by the assassination . Kennedy was not as effective getting issues put through as johnson was. There is a whole image, camelot, frank sinatra, everything about him. He was shot down in this horrendous manner, and like lincoln he becomes a martyr. That is why conspiracy theorists want to have a big figure, an organization that killed him rather than this lone nutcase. You are not a martyr if you are just a nutcase if you just have a nutcase kill you. The further we get away from the assassination in time, his ratings are dropping because people are not paying as much attention in the way that my generation lived through, the peace corps and the Space Program and Everything Else he was talking about. At least one more question, and then if theres anyone else. I think on the camelot thing just a thought that occurred as you were talking, think of the fact that he had a beautiful glamorous wife and made a lot of friends. He was young and handsome and stuff, but she was on tv doing white house tours, she went to paris, and the whole family contributed to this idealized view. Prof. Nurnberger you just have to look at the picture. The one where she is in the beautiful white dress at the top the stairs in paris. Anyways, my question was you have seen the zapruder film and others that indicate with physically happened to him. I dont think it would be unreasonable to claim that he was dead by the time he got to the hospital. Prof. Nurnberger of course. It took them a long time. There were news reports that he was in surgery and the doctors were calling people in, specialists, instead of making an announcement that he was dead already. I think that may be part of what makes people curious. One piece of evidence says he had to be dead. Prof. Nurnberger if you look at that picture, he is dead. Absolutely. Why are they working on him in the hospital . Prof. Nurnberger they were waiting for a priest. They were having difficulty finding one. If you had to tell the whole country that news, maybe that are to build up to hes been shot, but he is ok. He is not really ok. We are working on it. And then he is dead. As opposed to, he is dead. Your point about the priest was certainly very much under discussion at the time. Yes. Following up on that, i think some of the doctors saw him, if anyone else had done that he would have been dead on arrival but he was the president of the United States. They felt had to do something, as futile as it was. Prof. Nurnberger yes. I wish all of you were in my class. Usually my class, i stop and theyll rush out. [laughter] was there ever an argument that broke out between keeping the body in texas and doing an autopsy in texas as opposed to didnt johnson arrive and tried to get the body back as soon as possible, but the texas authorities were demanding prof. Nurnberger there was an argument among the various positions about where the autopsy should be done. He said it was performed in the state because prof. Nurnberger yes. Johnson flew from washington and they had the body on the plane. Johnson is sworn in on the plane. That awful picture of lady bird standing on his one side and jackie, with blood still under suit standing next to him. It is one of the most famous photos in American History. Somewhere on that plane is the body. I did not know that they had a way to perform the autopsy. Prof. Nurnberger yeah, i think they performed it at bethesda. [indiscernible] prof. Nurnberger thats right. Ok. Anymore . Well, thank you. [applause] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] here are some of our featured programs this weekend on the cspan network. On book tv on cspan 2 tonight at 10 00 p. M. Eastern, Fox News Contributor kiersten powers says all day they were although they are once the champions liberals are against tolerance and free speech. Michael morell on the successes and failures on the agencys war against terror. On cspan3 tonight at 9 15 author Kevin Mcmahon about nixons Supreme Court appointments. Sunday night at 6 00, we visit the National Museum of American History to view the newlyrestored mural from talladega college, featuring the slave revolt and its aftermath. Get the complete program list at www. Cspan. Org. Mary todd lincoln was known to be well educated and bright. She spoke several languages fluently and had a strong interest in politics. She took an active role in her husbands career. Three of her four children die before adulthood and her husband was assassinated sitting next to her in fords theater. Mary todd lincoln on first ladies. Sundays at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on American History tv on cspan3. The new congressional directory is a handy guide to the 114th congress, with color photos of every senator and house member, plus bio and contact information. District maps, a foldout map of capitol hill, and a look at congressional committees, the president s cabinet, federal agencies, and state government. Order your copy today. It is 13 five cents plus shipping and history book shelf features popular riders and airs every week and on tv at this time. Next, a discussion of books on fugitives histories. Recorded at the texas book festival in 2010, this program is a little over one hour. Skip hello, everyone. Im skip hollandsworth. And i have the grand privilege of introducing you to four men who spent the last few years of their years chronicling some of the darkest hours in American History, gangster who have been which i say cheese