Her relationship with her son, daughterinlaw, eleanor, and many grandchildren. The New York Historical society hosted this hourlong event. Todays program, grandmother power, the roosevelts is part of the schwartz distinguished series. I always like to thank mr. Swartz for his support which has enabled us to invite so many prominent authors and historians to New York Historical. Lets give mr. Swartz a hand. [applause] the program this morning will last an hour. Leslie will be staying for a book signing and will sign her book right here. This is a great mothers day gift everyone. I am already signed up for three books she is going to sign. Get your books. They will be on sale in our museum store kiosk which will be just near the walters book signing table. I would just hand the book off. Also, Geoffrey Ward will have his book on the roosevelts and another book, so he will be here as well. To begin, we are so glad to welcome Geoffrey Ward back to New York Historical, the author of 18 books, one winner of the National Book critics circle award and the society of american historian. A long time collaborator with ken burns he has won seven emmys and written 52 historical documentaries and he is 33 years old. [laughter] either on his own or in collaboration with others, including the roosevelts, an intimate history which is why he is here today. We are always so thrilled to welcome leslie. She lives close by so we just call her up and say, come on over. She has been a correspondent for cbs and 60 minutes for over 20 seasons and she is 21. [laughter] prior to joining 60 minutes she was the cbs News White House correspondent during the carter, reagan and george h. W. Bush presidency. During much of that time, she also served as moderator on face the nation, cbs broadcast which interviewed Margaret Thatcher as well as virtually every other top u. S. Official. She has a collection of emmy awards for her interviews and reporting including a Lifetime Achievement emmy. Her new book is becoming grandma, the joys and signs of new grandparenting. [laughter] thank you. I gave my book away. Thank you, leslie. Her new book makes a great mothers day gift. And, i do not know if you have been watching tv or listening to the radio, but every time i turn it on leslie is on. She was talking up great stuff. This book is amazing. She has been on charlie rose, pbs news hour, bill maher. Before we begin, i just asked if you have a cell phone, beeper device that you please turn it off. Please help me welcome our wonderful guests. [applause] i havent been asked to speak briefly about the book. The roosevelts are in the book, which is why this pairing made sense. Let me tell you first about this book. I had a friend tell me that writing a book about being a grandmother was nuts. She said, you are going to tell everyone you are that old . She said, dont do it, but i started writing and i did so with great trepidation because of what my friend said. The more i got into it, the more courage i had, especially when i found out that mick jagger is a greatgrandfather. Thank you, sir. [laughter] eventually i became to see if you become a grandparent, you do not become older but younger. Many of you, i can tell from looking around, no what im talking about. When we take care of our grandchildren and studies back this up, we get healthier, have less depression and overall we are happier. Now that the baby boomers are becoming grandparents, we have power in numbers. Listen to this statistic. There are 30,000 new grandparents in the United States every week. I cannot believe that. It is true. Baby boomers, this giant bulge becomes grandparents. Think about how the group, that cohort that has marched through our lives defining and changing our entire culture, our tastes in music, clothes and everything and now they are inventing a brandnew way of grandparenting. We have more energy and certainly look younger, no more tightly turned gray hair. Look, we are all blonde. We have more money. We are spending it on our grandchildren. Listen to this thing i found out. Grandparents today spend seven times more money on their grandchildren than they did just 10 years ago. For example, paying for medical bills, day care, straightening their teeth and we are buying stuff and im not talking about toys, big ticket items, cribs, car seats and i know one grandparent who bought them a piano. As someone said to me, there are three phases in life. In the first phase we believe in santa claus, the second face we do not believe in santa claus and the third phase, we are santa claus. [laughter] the reason i wanted to write this book was the first time i held my first grandchild, i had a thunder jolt of elation that was so powerful it affected my entire body and was so enormous that i felt like one of those big trucks with the giant wheels as the surge of love rumbled through my body. It is unfettered, unconditional. Someone wise told me that if god had turned to abraham and told him to sacrifice his grandson he wouldve said, forget it. It is not going to happen. [laughter] becoming a grandparent, in metamorphosis is us. No matter how strict, how concerned we were with molding our own children into good citizens, and to people that could make it on their own in life, the minute that grandchild is born, boom, we are indulgent. Our ability to say the word no is completely disabled. We are completely changed in every conceivable way. I also found out that a lot of grandparents today walk on egg shells. We are afraid because we understand they hold the key to our access to those children. The most dreaded words to us are no, we do not want you to come over today. That hurts because all we want are those babies. We are the babysitters who beg to come over and we do not charge a dime. We learned quickly that the balance of power in the family shifts because our children now hold the key to the most important thing in life which is those babies. What we do now as grandparents is we bite our tongue. We suck up to the daughterinlaw. [laughter] which is a perfect segue to Geoffrey Ward talking about the roosevelts. Want to show you his new book that he did with ken burns. If you did not see the roosevelts documentary you have to go find it. It is on dvd. It is extraordinary. You learn all kinds of new things. You can see i have gone through a and i have my stickys. Lets talk about the relationship between eleanor. Is it as bad as the impression we have in our heads . Mr. Ward the impression we have, i have a terrible problem with this. I am going to call Eleanor Roosevelt mrs. Roosevelt. Our version of Eleanor Roosevelt is mrs. Roosevelts version. Her upbringing was so awful, so emotionally arid, so devoid of parenting, a drunken father and demented father that was there and not there and seeing visions and telling her that he loved her and that he was going to come and sleep are never going to come live in europe and the disappeared and finally died. Her mother was distracted and disappointed in herself she had no model parent. When she became first a wife and then a parent she relied enormously on franklins mother. There are many people the right about the roosevelts with different views and this is my view. Sarah roosevelt was happy to fill the vacuum. She was the most devoted mother that there ever was. Eleanor was terribly grateful at the time that she took over hiring nannies, that she gave her child raising advice. Later in her life, some of that stuff became distorted. She began to see it as somebody taking over her life. When it was happening, she was grateful for it. She developed and she was, since we are talking about grandmothers, grandparents, let me just go on to that. I knew three of the roosevelt children. All of them believe that their grandmother had really been their mother, that she had provided them, whatever you think of her, had provided them with the unconditional love that you mentioned. She just adored them. They could do no wrong. She spoiled them greatly. They could not wait to get to hyde park and be with her. That was their real home. Part of that was because their father had fallen ill with polio that she had provided them, whatever you think of her, had provided them with the unconditional love that you mentioned. She just adored them. They could do no wrong. She spoiled them greatly. They could not wait to get to hyde park and be with her. That was their real home. Part of that was because their father had fallen ill with polio and when they were at formative ages he was not really home. He was in florida trying to get back on his feet. That left them with their mother who did not believe in unconditional love. The passage, i will not be looked to quote it exactly but she said, i have always believed that one must earn the love of people around you, and that she learned that in her childhood. That was how she had been raised. She carried it on with her own children. She did not sort of do the opposite thing that they hoped she would. She was extremely stern. If you felt ill you were not to tell her so. The roosevelts did not get sick. She was not a comforting mother, and then the rest of her life she spent being haunted by not having been a good mother. Then she reached a point later in life where she considered killing herself because of that. Really . That i had not known. I am going to pull out some anecdotes that i read in your book and some of which i wrote about in mine. To back up what you are saying, curtis roosevelt, one of the grandchildren, greatgrandson, no, grandson wrote a book. This portrait of sarah as a monster, was grossly unfair and suggests that eleanor got to write the history. It is whoever gets the last word when it comes to history, who writes it a new talks about it and that eleanor had the last word and she is the one that painted this portrait, so it is exactly what you are saying. Curtis complained about it in his book and again said that sarah was most loving, most fun, most indulgent, delicious and anna said she just wanted to be with her grandmother. Mr. Ward yes. They all did. You are free to do, i mean, you were not free. We talk about that piano. She gave them everything. Mr. Ward she gave them everything but also had some very strict views. If they had been riding and came to lunch without changing their clothes, she would say, you reek of the stable. If you followed the rules you would have a wonderful time. According to eleanor, sarah could be very cruel to her. You write about an incident at the dinner table about hair. Mr. Ward they also done for dinner and she said something like, you look so much better if you would run a comb through your hair before you ate. That was in front of everyone. Mr. Ward that is true and awful but it is also part of the same thing i was talking about. Eleanor felt she needs help with all of those things initially. Later, of course, she did not and became the first lady of the world and was still being treated that way. You touch a little bit on how eleanors mother had treated her. She made her feel unlovable. This is interesting to me. Her mother called her granny. Mr. Ward because she very rarely laughed and she was very prim and proper. She tried to be the only girl that did all of the right things. The mother was a beautiful socialite. The most prophetic thing for me is mrs. Roosevelt in her autobiography says, her mother often had migraines and would be in a dark room, and this little girl would go in and rub her for head and it made her feel better, and she said, that is when i learned to be loved is to be useful. She was five years old. Think how sad that is. It really is. Alice roosevelt, who famously said, if you have nothing nice to say, come sit by me and she was put off by eleanor because eleanor did not have a sense of humor, and alice was funloving, but here is what i found so ironic in a way because alice had a sort of slight image around the country. While eleanor became a cold and distant grandmother, alice was indulgent like the rest of us. She became kind of sarah to her own grandchildren and eleanor went the other way. Mr. Ward i do not quite think she was cold and distant but i think she was proper and she wanted her grandchildren to do the right thing. We were talking about this before. Fdrs children called their grandmother granny. Eleanor roosevelts grandchildren called her that in french. They were fond of her. I have not talked to any of them that were not fond of her. It was an event to go see her. She was mrs. Roosevelt. We are going to get to fdr as a grandfather in one minute, but first, when you and i spoke on the phone the other day and we were smattering the areas of subject, you said, i want to talk about your book and i said, why . You said because, i am a grandfather. Mr. Ward i am not sure i am supposed to say this, but this is a fascinating book. It is really smart. I like reading it a lot. I am a grandfather, of course. It is a unique role in what it does do is make you think about your own grandparents. Mine, this is a diversion from the roosevelts, but my greatgrandfather was the Bernie Madoff of the 1880s. He was a bigtime swindler. He brought out a crash on wall street and he kidnapped his son. He did not know his father. Are you serious . Mr. Ward no, i am making this up. Yes, i am dead serious. I am sure everyone thinks their grandfather was the best, but mine was the best. When we were there, he was riveting. I remember, i was interested in knights and when i arrived he had made a complete wooden shield and sword all painted beautifully. He was a professor of medieval art so he really knew how to do that. He had german stone bricks, which nobody makes anymore, that they were spectacular. I do not need bricks, blocks, i mean. He would build for christmas every year a different cathedral. It would be this high and as long as a pingpong table with stainedglass windows lit up and that is what i think of when i think of grandfathers. If you have a grandfather like that, it makes you feel terribly inadequate. What i found out in my research is that exactly what youre grandfather did is exactly what grandfathers are supposed to do. They are supposed to talk about the family, the Family History and tell their grandchildren stories that give the kids a sense that they are connected to something wider and important and love them and play with them. That is a good segue to Franklin Roosevelt as a grandfather. Mr. Ward he did not have much time to be a grandfather. He read christmas, the dickens thing every year. The saddest thing was it was a recording and they lost the recording. One of the kids lost it. Can you imagine . No. Mr. Ward that is too good. I have to tell you what i found out that i think is so devastating. I was only looking at him as a grandfather. I discovered that he had two grandchildren that lived in the white house. I was looking for grandchildren a lived in the white house, that was my first line of attack and i found out that went anna got divorced, she moved into the white house with her two little kids. The whole country was in love with these little children running around the white house for a while. Franklin had his morning staff meeting in his bedroom and he would have his breakfast tray brought in, put up on the bed and then his staff would come in and sometimes members of the cabinet would come to this meeting and at some point, invariably, these two kids would burst into the bedroom because they had free range to franklin delaware roosevelt. He cannot get enough of these kids in the white house. They would jump in and he would say, on and get up on the bed. There was the tray in the treasury and he would have one kid on the left and one kid on the right and he would pull up the funnies and in those days, the funnies in the newspaper, we all remember this were everything. He would read the funnies, which im sure it was the way he read dickens and he played every character. He played in the dialect and these children just giggled with laughter and all of these men are standing around, virtually every day and have to put up with this through the crises and whatever else was going on in the world, including the depression. So when he did have his grandchildren around him, like your grandson was attentive and adorable, and everything we thought of as roosevelt in terms of his intelligence and wonderful manner. He was a great grandfather when he had the kids around. Mr. Ward in 1944 after he was elected, he knew he was very ill and for the first time at christmas, he asked that all of the grandchildren, obviously he was saying goodbye, but there is a picture of them all sitting on the floor. She looks awful in the picture but also pleased to be there. He put swings and slides on the white house lawn which i guess it never been done before because he was trying to lure the grandchildren to come and visit. Mr. Ward the whole premise of the show was you would not have franklin without theodore. His children were all over the white house. The fact that the press got so interested in those kids was sort of because that had sold so many newspapers during theodores time. So it was delivery. I see. Mr. Ward no, i did not mean that. You have been to the white house. No, but a lot of times these children are used to foster an image. Mr. Ward no, no, i did not mean it that way. I am going to get back to the book. I want to know your relationship with ken burns because you have done several documentaries and television with him. You were telling me before about the relationship between fdr and the one ken did on baseball. Mr. Ward sure. I may have told this story before. I cannot remember. When ken wanted to do baseball, that is the subject i do not know anything about. I cannot member if it was to our episodes or onehour episodes but i think it was 18 hours of baseball. I knew nothing and could care less. My sort of deal with ken was that at some point we would do the roosevelts. If i did his great enthusiasm, he would do mine and so we did that. Next, you are doing another one with him . Mr. Ward yes, vietnam which will be out in the fall of 2017. You are working on the right now . Mr. Ward yes. The shows are mostly done. Are we going to get a book like this . Mr. Ward yes, i am afraid so. [laughter] but it is fabulous. Mr. Ward we are going to publish it with a suitcase. [laughter] before we take questions, the documentary in the book are really about relationships, the relationships that Theodore Roosevelt had with his family and other people in the same with franklin. I became very interested reading this book in their extracurricular or other relationships. Lets get your take on frankens relationships with other women. Tell us about those two. Mr. Ward he had an affair with lucy mercer. Many things in question about that. Mrs. Roosevelt said that we she would agree. Offsaid they would be cut from the family money. Louis howe said he will never be elected president of the United States if he got divorced. Allegedly for those reasons and who knows what the reasons were Franklin Roosevelt did not marry her. She came back to see him at the white house when he was ill. She was much older. I dont think that was anything more than a friendship that he needed during the war when his wife was away. He was a person who needed because of his mother, he liked women and he needed them to be around him and to admire him. Lesley he needed the adulation. Mr. Ward he was not always admirable. Lesley we do think of mrs. Roosevelt as being the most wonderful heartfelt person because she took up so many causes. But she was cold. She was cold to him. Mr. Ward she was a very damaged person. She was a miracle of the human but she was cold. She was cold to him. Mr. Ward she was a very damaged person. She was a miracle of the human spirit not to collapsed under the weight of everything she had to ignore when she was young. But its scarred her. It was very hard for her to have a good time. It was hard for her to get a joke. The opposite of franklin. He loved a good time. He was a good time. Daisy suckley was his distant cousin, despite that got movie that so many made with bill murray, he did not have an affair with daisy. She was a distant cousin. She got to know him well when was trying to build himself up after polio. She was worshipful. Became his closest companion. She was the great secret of his life. She kept a diary that i was privileged to read. I got to edit it. It is one of the joys of my life. Theres nothing for historian like being handed a journal from somebody that everybody thinks they know and to discover there is this very intelligent woman writing about this in an intimate way that nobody knows about. There are going to live together but that doesnt mean they were having an affair. She thought that they were going to live together. He had told several other women that they could be there to be helpful to him. They were all disappointed. Lesley lets talk about eleanor and her other friends. Theres a picture in this book of her and ham and she has her hand on his thigh. And then later with the newswoman lorena hickok. Mr. Ward there are several people that she had relationships with. I am not of the Eleanor Roosevelt is a lesbian school. I dont think she had a physical relationship with any of those people. She dearly loved all of them. She was in some ways like a teenager who gets crushes on people. They became absolutely wonderful in her mind and they could do no wrong and more importantly she could help them do something. That should become disillusioned with them. Just the way she had thought her father was the most wonderful person that ever lived and then realized on some level that he was not anything like that. She had this enormous enthusiasm. After a while of people didnt need her anymore they couldnt love her and therefore she would move on to another one. At the end of her life she had a whole bunch of courtiers clustered around her. Mutually antagonistic. It was a strange circle. All of whom a door to her and felt that they had not gotten enough of her. I cant prove she did not cross the line. I think its because of her childhood. She was devastated by the lucy mercer discovery. But it was the same kind of confirmation she got about her father. There was this golden person and then they turned out not to be golden. Most of us deal with that better. And they reject her. Lesley their pictures of her in this book when she was young and she was seeing franklin and she is beautiful. She didnt know it. She didnt think she was. The pictures we see she is not. Were going to invite you all to come up to the microphones and ask questions. As you delved into the personal relationships, what was the Biggest Surprise for you . Mr. Ward i guess my theory was that Theodore Roosevelt was terribly important and lives of both eleanor and franklin. That was strengthened. The sheer number of times you can see the connection. You can see fdr trying to be like tr. He was a huge figure to both of them. She saw herself all her life as a member of that family. When she was very old somebody told her to sit down and relax. She said i dont think i can im too much of Theodore Roosevelts niece. He loved her when he saw her but he didnt see her all that often. His wife didnt want her to come to the home. They believed that elliotts problems would be visited on her. Theres an awful letter where he says i dont encourage alice to see eleanor because we dont feel its a good idea. Pretty grim. She was a wounded person. The book sounds fascinating. Lesley the family goes to grandparent day brings eight people with them. What you said about Eleanor Roosevelt regretting things to the point of thinking about killing herself. Mr. Ward when she was an elderly lady living alone in new york she had a very dear friend who was her doctor. Sort of the last person who was her friend. They use to take walks at night. She said she didnt think she could go on. There had been yet another divorce or something papers about her children. Every time that happened she felt it was because she hadnt done the job. I think the number is 19 marriages among Eleanor Roosevelts children. All the divorces, is that the result of eleanor not being the ideal mother . Mr. Ward it must have been part of it. Lesley theres something about the children of president s. Mr. Ward fdr said it is a godawful thing to be the child of a president. Especially now. Even before. Everything they do is news. You never know whether people are interested in you because you are you because your last name is roosevelt. Thats very tough. And that goes on through the generations. Lesley amy carter, who they put into a public school. It was a spectacle. The press and everything followed her there. She became kind of a sullen kid in the white house. They would make her go to these dinner parties and she would read a book. I met her just a couple of years ago. She is healthy and is raising a couple of kids and has a strong marriage. She is lovely. So it is not 100 . But there is a history of president ial children. Id like to ask you about fdrs father. Sarah was 25 and she was gorgeous. She went to hong kong with her father. What was their marriage like . Mr. Ward as far as i could see he was a terrific father. He married a member of a rich family. He had one son who was kind of a dilettante. He married into the astor family and retired. He retired at 23. James was a lovely man with very good sense of humor. Inordinately fond of his son. Lesley fdrs strength of personality came from two loving parents. What kind of a grandmother was eleanor . Lesley fdrs strength of personality came from two loving parents. What kind of a grandmother was eleanor . When i was a teenager i remember she took a European Tour after the war and she took one of her grand children with her. Mr. Ward im constrained because i dont know over a much about it. I think there are people in the audience who do. She had curtis with her in the united nations. I dont know very much about her as a grandmother. It was not. I was writing about. Everything i came upon was always describing her in relation to sarah. The kids have written and been quoted as saying sarah was the one they wanted to go to and they called her granny and they called eleanor grand mere. I went to hunter college. Every christmas they had some famous person come and that christmas it was Eleanor Roosevelt. She came down the aisle just like this she was very tall. She had white hair. She was beautiful. She had a beautiful profile. All this talk about not being beautiful and i said what is all the stuff theyre saying . She was beautiful. Lesley she didnt photograph well. Mr. Ward she did have very prominent teeth. Which the Theodore Roosevelt family wrote letters about but never did anything about it. They had orthodontists back then. They didnt do anything about it. They would say she has unfortunate teeth then do nothing about it. The sons of fdr were really used by other people for business purposes. They were exploited for their name. I remember reading that some of his sons would go to him and they would basically talk about business deals and he seemed to be ok with that and would use his powers of the presidency to help them along. In some of these exploitation of business relationships. I was wondering did he see the moral difficulty with that . Mr. Ward i think he was very sympathetic to his sons. He had caused them trouble by becoming president. If they could succeed at something. I dont think he used the powers of the presidency in any nefarious way. But they were roosevelts. I think he felt that he had not been home enough. They had a tough row to hoe. I had lunch with James Roosevelt about a year before he died. On the upper west side. He could not been nicer more helpful. At the end of the lunch he had tears in his eyes. He said i hope you will be able to tell me why my father didnt come to my prep school graduation. It shows you the price families pay for people going into politics. Lesley youre suggesting that they both felt guilty about not being more attentive as parents. On the day that fdr died lucy mercer was with him. Did the president request her to be there . Mr. Ward he did ask her to come. She came quite often when he was in warm springs. Daisy was there. Another cousin was there. All of whom adored him. They all sat around and listen to the stories theyd heard before. The account of those last days is incredibly moving. At the very end they were feeding them some kind of gruel. She would feed him in bed. This is the president fighting the greatest war in human history. He needed that maternal unqualified adoration. And he deserved it at that time. Lesley i was struck by how indulgent sarah was with him. He could do no wrong. Other kids didnt like him very much. She kept him on that pedestal. He came to need what his mother had done which was to tell me was perfect and fabulous. Mr. Ward i think thats why he ran four times. The natural order of the world was with Franklin Roosevelt in the white house. He had been raised to believe that. And it happened. Lesley i pulled out a quote that i loved. A quote from churchill. Franklin roosevelt with his iridescent personality. Meeting him was like opening your first bottle of champagne. Knowing him was like drinking it. My name originally was sara delano roosevelt. I carried that name for quite a long time. We didnt see a whole lot of him when we were children. He did go on and marry other i carried that name for quite a long time. We didnt see a whole lot of him when we were children. He did go on and marry other people. From the perspective of a grandchild, which you have described fully and well. I was a student at milton academy. Mrs. Roosevelt was coming to give the graduation address. She came to our boarding house. She sat in a chair and i had been pulled aside for a moment by the headmistress to say hello to her in a private room. Which was basically a kiss on the cheek. I sat on the very outskirts of this group. Kate and i had a maternal grandmother with whom we spent a lot of time. We really didnt know eleanor. She probably knew her better than i did. I had this revelation. I understand, she is everybodys grandmother but shes not my grandmother. Mr. Ward that is perfect. [applause] we called her grandma. I think we were the only grandchildren who called her grandma. [applause] i was struck by your story on fdrs grand parenting style. How social privilege shaped grandparenting or is there some inherent biological gestalt because now income inequality has increased significantly. Grandparents served much more of an action give role in substance. How does that compare to the depression . Lesley i found that this degloving and unconditional love for a grandchild was universal. It has nothing to do with income or education or what country you live in. It is pretty much the norm. People fall in love with their grandchildren. There is something inherent in our dna. We crave them when they are not there. It turns us silly. In terms of our contributions to their lives. If you are suffering and are still suffering because of the recession you cant send money because you dont have any. The baby boomers and generations older. The generations with the money in the country. Senior citizens were the poor ones. And our children helped support us in old age. Now it is inverted. Were the ones with the money, we have pensions and social security. The other generations need our help. We are sending money if we havent. We are forgoing a lot. There have been surveys taken of grandparents putting their grandchildren ahead of everything. Their own financial wellbeing. Ahead of traveling and seeing the world. Even change their idea of retirement. I work on east 65th street. I was stopped so look at those two townhouses. I was try to imagine what it must of been like when they were there. I was wondering if you could share a little bit of what their life was like in new york. Mr. Ward when mrs. Roosevelt wrote her autobiography she gives a pretty grim picture of that. The two houses next to each other and the doors opened in between. She never knew when her motherinlaw would suddenly appear. Checking on things. Its usually made to sound very uncommon. It was not uncommon. The roosevelts were married in one of those parlors. I think it was a, you know, a very comp with it in place. Its a wonderful site. Exactly restored it, but you can see it. You can go through it, what you could not do in the past. Moving. T very one of the roosevelt children died there. He was brought back there after he had polio. And there is a wonderful picture, one of my favorite pictures, of him leaving the front steps of that house to go become president of the United States. There are railing so he can go down and he is just about to both down. Patientlyn james is holding his cane at the end so you cant quite see it. But it will be handed to him. To me, it is a very emotional picture. Corks for all of time, until the mid20th century, families lived in multigenerational houses are compounds. Again, this goes back to caveman times when families were structured so that grandmothers and grandfathers were a natural part and definitely lived together. It is only in recent times, with and the urbanization, really, that we have broken that up. One of the things i say in the book is that is unnatural. Today,re is a huge trend an enormous trend, a grandparent, when they retire, selling the house they lived in for 50 years, and moving near their grandchildren. And more and more, the children are accepting it because they want the house. They need the help. The younger woman wants her husband to turn to her nest and break the connection with the mother. That went on even when they were sameiving in the household. There is a nice irony at the end of her life here mrs. Withvelt shared her house the doctor whom i mentioned and the lady who married the doctor was a friend, a lovely lady, and recounts being in her bedroom with her new husband. And mrs. Roosevelt appearing in the doorway to say good morning. Which is a sort of irony there somewhere. [laughter] lesley i can see that we could go on and on asking fabulous questions. I see someone with a hug. Lesley stahl and jeffrey ward, thank you so much. [applause] they will both be at the book signing table, so stay. Pick up a book or two or three or four. And you can continue the conversation outside. Thank you also much for coming this morning. [applause] announcer on july 1, the smithsonian air and space the doors. Ened their american tvs live coverage starts at 6 00 p. M. Live events at the front of the building. 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