Transcripts For CSPAN3 The First Tycoon 20170211

The largest fortunes and will history. This recorded this was recorded in 2009, it is about an hour and two minutes. Cominghanks for everyone this evening. Placerst tycoon takes its this year as the biography of record. One of the greatest and most neglected figures and American Business history. Cornelius vanderbilts been shipping route roads and finance spanned an incredible epic indie industrial in the Industrial Development of this industry. Rights, youhousand 19thcentury businessman it will vanderbilt and his impact on american history. , and unprovoked to be so fundamental over a. So formative for so long. The commodore lived to be 82. From the very beginnings of steamboat travel on the hudson river to the Seminal Supreme Court case. The federaled governments right to establish. Tate congress transatlantic travel, the California Gold rush, the growth of the United States into a continental nation. The start of travel across the nation and the planting of the seed that was to become the panama canal. The crushing of the victorious alabaster William Walker. The destruction of the ironclad merrimack and the safeguarding of the gold shipments was quite a seminal part in winning the civil war. Also, the birth of the modern corporation. Greatnsolidation of the new York Airlines and the central and hudson river road. The growth of new york city into the first city of america and of trade. First hub anderbilt paid played great role in all of this. These were the most basic beliefs about equality. He started in business as the very enemy of the jacksonian ideal. Only akingmen desired level playing field. He ended it as a symbol of equality and the monopoly of the gilded age. He was instrumental in a quitting americans with the normalized business entity. Americans worked almost exclusively as farmers and small businessmen and what money they saw was mostly solid coin. Corporations were a rarity. By the time vanderbilt died, had been introduced to paper money. Even if they were still uneasy about it. Life served as an ethic. He started off as a teenage farm boy. By the time of his death he would be the second richest man in america with a fortune of 14 million. He was somehow able to liquidate if he were able to liquidate his estate somehow, he would receive one of every nine dollars. Had been able to liquidate all of his estates, he would have been entitled to one everyone hundred 38. Didnt come about this every 138. He was raising his steamboats of the hudson and defended himself and countless lawsuits. He lost endless coups on wall street and corporate boardrooms, whipping his price hotter in the regions. S he was a hard man who was hard on those around him, including seemed to have driven including a wife who he seemed to have driven to a sanitarium. The daughters who snubbed his second wife and bitterly contested his will. The son who suffered a breakdown. More sons who lived tragic lives and never taking his approval. He was also a man capable of love. Great works of charity in the last years of his life. It is both a great personal and public story. Tj spouse has done a magnificent job of guiding us through a life crowded with events. There was a colorful supporting cast. Build with names such as james banker, fernando wood, simon chase, daniel trip, big jim pac, emily thorne, curtis with tori a woodhall victoria woodhall. Greeley, a ok, augustus and myjohn preen, passing these right . In short, it is a terrific read. James pardon once wrote of the Young Thomas Jefferson that he could calculate and eclipse, survey and estate, tiein state, survey in the tie and artery. Cornelius bender that could build a ship, simply over the ocean, run a shipping line, consolidate a railroad, brady corporation, while be a president. He also could raise an army all before lunchtime. Iss juxtaposition of skills a great deal about what america became in vanderbilts time. Also, in view of what has going on in the countrys economy and over wall street over the past few months. Viewing general motorss amended plan where it revised the miles goingllon that cars were to get. Anyone who had seen this, they see the bonus is going bankrupt. How did we go from that to this . Thank you for having me here. T. J. i was a fellow at the coleman center. It was an incredible experience. Without them, my book would not have been possible. I just want to make that very clear. Transitionence, that is visible during vanderbilts life. Bender built himself was most vanderbilt himself was both a pioneer and was part of an older business world. Mold. Part of the medici by creating the hudson river thesead, it pioneered giant corporations we were talking about. One of the four primary railroads, the Pennsylvania Railroad is very interesting managers represent the modern model of management. Were andrewrs carnegies mentors. J Edgar Thompson for instance. Vanderbilt purchased a controlling share in the stock of the corporation, moved into management and then what he would do is he would not take a salary. He would only take remunerations or dividends of the stock. This is a moderately moved away from. Now we expect stocks and shares to grow in value. Time, it was the primary thing investors look for. Had to make his railroads pay. He had to make it possible year in and year out to get money. Paidennsylvania railroad dividends pretty successfully. Investors werent so concerned with the stocks going up or down. Just making sure that it was paid. Prices tend to fluctuate. You didnt see steady, ever increasing growth. That would have seemed fishy to people. Railroad hadnia these managers that were not a journey shout orders majority shareholders. Thomas a scott was famous in one case for being so politically influential that he got the annsylvania governor to sign contract 30 minutes after it was produced. They would funnel their railroads business through these corporations. They would funnel money out of the company. They ran it fairly well up to a point. When the panic of 1873 head, shareholders were looking into what they were doing. Corporations were ran like it was private personal property. How do we get here . You see the origins. The owners and shareholders were not really paying attention. That creates an incentive for the agents who are running the country to engage in stuff on the side. Incentive, it doesnt guarantee malfeasance. You see that origin. Seems to have always been hand on. Handson. He actually testify before a state legislative committee. Said, are you a practical manager . Are you out inspecting locomotives . He said no, i am not like that. But that was not quite true, people felt his wrath. When he got to the railroad years, he relinquished operational control. It always seemed to be able to outcompete other lines. Whether it was steamships or other railroads. Customers can always be learned away. T. J. it is not a very sexy subject. Those are trade to see in managers. A goodcarnegie is example, he cut costs. And a built once said that he could vanderbilt said he could not run a business like that. Book, whennd of the you have these populist movements from out west, they have a huge complaint from the railroad which is there is this preferential and secret pricing system. Moving some peoples goods for free. Vanderbilt says fine, we would be happy to compete on an equal basis. What they are saying is they are complaining on that special legislation like Thomas A Scott would pass. s response to that complaint was as long as the laws were the same for everybody, i am on board. As long as the rules are the same, i can beat anyone. Kevin it was a very rough and tumble business time. You get the sense he was something of an honorable man in a sense. He had his own sense of honor. That is a really interesting trait of his. Peers had this lovehate is the wrong way to put it, this sort of respec thate relationship with him. One of the reasons that the book is longer than it might have been is because i try to write more of a business story. More than a business story. It was about the culture in the 19th century. Very first years in steamboats, i found these olders from his own these families. They were cutting prices and competition, this is awful. Individualistic, competitive economy where it was no holds barred. There was this major cultural shift. Business was not just business. It was changing american culture. The idea of individualism and competitiveness was a huge shift. Vanderbilt was very much on the forefront. There was a new code of honor that was emerging. Sportsmanship. D we are all gentlemen, lets all caps is with each other cuts deals with each other, it was more of a fair fight code. He would stick to that. He would say that he found letters in the library. Know my word is as good as my bond and it was important to him to develop that reputation. Was there might have been putting your ferryboat across the peer. Or burning down the other guys stuff. Kevin there was that in same race between henry clay and that of the steam ship down the hudson. There was a wild race. They were throwing people off at the stops. At the end of this, the henry clay steamboat explodes. This was basic commuter transportation at the time. This was like a spectator sport. It really matter to people that they were on the fastest boat. There were two sets of passengers, the ones that were very excited about the racing and the ones that insisted on being told in a boat behind. Reworked. Of that was that was ok. All of these people ended up forecting the commodore finding him to the death on steamships and rail lines. Then you get down to jay gold jimthey jump this big fisk. That is interesting, hugo from this early era of veryboats , it was a competition oriented business. A small group of people could get together. You could move it between markets. If you are competing for a while, you could take it somewhere else. One of my favorite examples of is in 1838, the staten erry boater ordered his captain to ram another ferry. The passengers on the other ferry, when they got to staten island, they nearly murdered the captain. Then you get to the railroad era. What is different about railroads is they are fixed pieces of infrastructure. You can have a price war. But in the end, you have to come to some sort of terms because the other guy is still dead. Due to the nature of railroads, because they are so capital intensive, even if you had no trades, yourll, no fixed expenses of maintaining and having a railroad were very high. A railroad that was in bad shape would cut prices. Losing money,ere it was better than losing more money. Railroads were stuck. Takes part in something that is going on before his time, gentlemens agreements. Cartels, they had elaborate cartels where they had commissions, they would hire a commissioner who could fire people from individual railroads who were undercutting prices. Vanderbilt time, himself was rising in social stature. Business thatn a is inclined toward gentlemanly agreements. He himself is becoming more gentlemanly. Life toward the end of his life, there was a curious parallel in business. Jay gould and jim fisk come along and they are talking about secret deals with the press. Theyre trying to insult and demanded commodore. He became obsessed with them. It became this famous rivalry in the American Press between these businessmen. They get it to impress and start putting stock certificates without anything behind them. They avoided actual jail time somehow. Thatere were strict laws made you aware of how many in aou can have an company. People felt that a share of stock represented 100 of extra capital. When you increase the number of newes without building infrastructure, it was seen as the most intellectual figures as broad. He was trying to corner the market in the shares. It was a very famous episode where vanderbilt got a judge to issue arrest warrants. Ofre were officers at one the leading and largest corporations in america. They set up shop in for taylor for taylor over it fort taylor over in new jersey. Jayto settle the matter, t. J. to new jersey with a suitcase of cash. Finally, vanderbilt managed to pay back what he lost. It was an incredible episode. Kevin he never try to contact stances in d seances. The was the high point of civilization in america. People were going to mediums all the time to contact the dead. I dont think vanderbilt based any decisions on these. I believe in spiritualism. I dont think mediums were contacting the dead. Vanderbilt clued into that too. There was a great incident that you were referring to. So fisk comes up and vanderbilt asked him about stock. His images made no sense at all. Said, fine, we will see who is right. It was a hilarious incident. Rivalry, there is a quote that i never found a good source for. It was one of my favorites. He supposedly said it never skunk. Pickick a that was his attitude toward jay gould. End, in the most important battles, he either held his own or campoue out better. Jay gould managed to embarrass him. In the great war, jay gould and jim fisk radically undercut him. Central the new York Railroad went from 150 dollars per cattle. They were shipping it over the new york central for nothing and when they did it, they made a loud announcement to the press. It was actually a trivial dispute. It was getting under his skin. Something we talked about before in contrast, other businessmen would have vicious spies. Fights. Of shows the whole span vanderbilts life. Supposedly, they were ordering stock and driving literal stock into new york. He would beat it lots of salt and water at the collect pond. That is where the court houses are now. He would drive the cattle down there. They would pick up water and go on. That became the five points. Career, he wasis fighting these wars over transporting cattle by the thousands across the country. To talk about another skunk for a moment. Called aalker who was filibuster. Somebody who would go down and try to take over a country. There was a rash of these. Americans decided to go down with a handful of mercenaries. They would start fighting in a civil war and then tried to take it over. Things considered a great by southern and confederate leaning individuals. Especially in the case of cuba. The spanishll of d the starba remaine of the spanish overseen possessions. There was a large human population in new york. Is running about this. Writing about this. Walker ended up landing in San Francisco. He made to mexico unsuccessfully. Then he got a contract to fight for one side in the nicaraguan civil war. He would fight for one sidethend inaragua is almost always the petrol civil war. Perpetual civil war. Started, hed rush abruptly got out of that. Main route of congress and steamship migration was crossing panama. Vanderbilt tried to build another one. He sold out, went on a grantor of europe, engaged in other affairs. At the very moment he was doing that, walker sailed off to nicaragua. He was a terrible general. Ordered frontal attacks. T. J. this reflected the filibuster attitude. We are americans. One of us was 10 of them. Fortunately, he carries out one maneuver by luck. He manages to win by luck. He ends up being the strawman and cant even speak spanish. Nicaraguastrawman in icaragua. Man in n here, thers i found here in thehem, manuscript department, most nderbiltsd that va rivals within the situation in fact, a friend of walkers went to the San Francisco look, your said, company will be destroyed. I think he is going to give the resume. Rights to me. There is a Hilarious Exchange where garrison said that i can do anything. This whole story plays out with these political, corrupt political figures. The selfinterest of characters that were woven through the 1850s. It was like a part of american culture. This, he gives the right. Tries to destroy this company. He unsuccessfully tried to get the u. S. Government and the british to intervene. They dont want to help for various reasons. He had these napoleonic visions that he would conquer all of latin america. Would carry out these foreign policies. Guy he worked in nicaragua. He was sent off to costa rica with a creative goal. He led a commando raid. Steamboats and cut them off from his reinforcements. It is something out of a conrad neville. Novel. Owed him money from something. They are refusing to hand over the ships. T. J. thousands of people would have lived. Scott i own the company. The british had a fleet there. It would have cut everything off almost at the beginning. The local guy says i am of 17 thousand dollars. Until i am paid, i am not cooperating. Later, when they win the war and vanderbilt sends out a guy to chase him with the steamboat and says i will shoot you unless you one littlere is unknown character. Because of his personal debt aat hasnt been paid, it and change in the history of 45 countries. Countries five five countries. I do know that one of the consequences of this episode is that what vanderbilt found when he tried to get business going again he walked up to the line that allowed him to carry passengers across nicaragua. Accept northnt americans coming in. In the midst of this whole war, he ends up burning down most of this. He rode to the country. He was truly an international criminal. He was the dr. Evil of his day. This was made into a very bad and harris, ed harris movie. Another part of vanderbilt at work. He went out to fight with the merrimack. That was the first ironclad. This really threatened the entire civil war plant of the union. That was to blockade the south. All of the sudden, the south has built this ironclad ship. It sinks to American Warships immediately. It looks and vulnerable. Invulnerable. This goes to the conflicts. Never readbody who adam smith but he firmly believed in the invisible hand. He believes that we make progress in society through everybody chasing their own interest. He believed it was his own duty as a citizen to fight for them. He thought that is what everybody should do. One of the exceptions of that is that he was deeply patriotic. He had three sons. He named them after his heroes, torch washington george washington. Henderson and cornelius vanderbilt. The secretary of the navy was a little prickly. They said you will never have this expensive ship. Vanderbilt ended up being forced against his will to lease it for very large sums to the war department. A complicated story and we will have the premarket people all shaking their heads. It would have been a crazy result. Out. They came streaming the standard version is end of story. At that point, there was only one ship that could handle the merrimack. It had seen similar mechanical breakdowns. The secretary of war telegraphed. Anderbilt lincoln said what can you do . He said probably what will happen is that they wont risk the merrimack against it. That is actually what ended up happening. So lincoln said how much are you going to charge . Giving it to you. He brought it down personally with extraordinary authority see lincoln to personally how the officer was deployed. It basically bottom of the merrimack. They never did risk it against vanderbilt. He could have ran. Or simply run it down. He requested as a cruiser to go them in alabama. The captain of the alabama wanted to get revenge against vanderbilt. There is a great little story that played out. A hard man to live with it seems. A hard man on his family. You had that he took out a lot business anxieties at home. It was particularly hard on his sons. The oldest, william has a breakdown after working for a short time on wall street. He goes and starts to farm on staten island. That is very successful. He comes back. Cornelius is an old docket an epileptic. Lt was washington vanderbi mysterious. He goes for west point. He goes awol. Something i found in the national archives, the youngest accounts l liked three sons, he only one of them because he was athletic. Immenselt was a man of physical capabilities. He stood tall. This is a guide got involved and fi this fights won fist fifties. His he was an excellent cardplayer, horse racer, he always wanted to win. That his one son is an epileptic. William may have been gay. His son william was very good in business but was pudgy and unathletic. He was a sad sack in his demeanor. Washington started in the civil war. He returned to duty. He was never assigned to combat duty. He ended up getting sick and died during the civil war. He didnt even die on the battlefield. Vanderbilt was very broken up about it. I think that contributed to his spiritualism. The thing about corneel is that he takes up a lot of space in the book. Only because there was a lot of material about him but because he was everything his father was in. He was physically affected. He was morally weak. He was a real addict. Cheat, hestful, a stilole money. It was a source of great shame and anger for vanderbilt. His first wife said that his wastude toward corneel inconsistent. He comes across as this twodimensional figure. His conflicting feelings brings out these very conflicting sides. There were a lot of ups and downs around the various mistresses. The physical city that vanderbilt shaped, he was these land speculator. He loaned money here and there. He built these depots. It is amazing to make, the rise and the fall of the time. You have st. Johns park. In the space of 40 years, it went from a plot of land owned by Trinity Church to being the most fashionable neighborhood in the city to being something of a rundown, abandoned neighborhood. It turned out to be the entrance to the tunnel. Nobody knows this place existed anymore in new york. It was forgotten out of modern memory. Nobody would have ever heard of gramercy park. It is amazing how fast new york was changing. They build this great depot and put the original statue of the commodore up. I guess it had been lost . It is crazy, on either side, it was very much like a gated park in lower manhattan. They ripped it down and put up this huge freight to toug depot. There was this huge brunt ze. Eze. Bronze free the statue was moved. Because sting i know that wells fargo i said i dont know if you will like the book because fargo was an enemy in the book. In addition to his legacy in the corporate world and developing s financial and economic the unseen architecture of our world. He built this infrastructure. He built grand central. He built the tunnel that runs a park avenue. To this day, this is a vital part of the city. He has a good reason for having a statue up there. Metaphorically, it is almost the last stand. This means transportation still didnt have an excuse. It is amazing the way this would all run. There was a law in the city against having Steam Powered rails below 42nd street. It would be a catastrophe for people. You had these trains coming down the stretch. I love the description that when he trains coming to grand decouple the would engine from the train to keep too much steam from coming into the train shed. The engine was slide off onto a railing. The powertrain would glide in. Think how you must have been able to judge that. Presumably, they slow down a little bit. What an amazing way to do it. Think about how new york was a lowrise city. Theickens described it in 1840s, it was a jumbled heard of buildings with here and there a steeple picking up. Grand central was just got again gigantic. When they constructed grand central, much of it was paid by vanderbilt personally. He bought stock that was issued for it. It was a major contribution to midtown. It was his financial capacities and the planning of his son. New york has always been fairly genius about. He tried to build an underground rail system only to city hall. It looked like a subway. Charter corporation tried to do it and in the end decided that it wouldnt pay. Everybody toarge. 0 250 you always your biographers say they do or dont do so many things because they dont want to spend that time. That is a good note to go out on. Brenda maddox is a great biographer. She wrote one called what has looked at to do with it love got to do with it . That is a great way to look at it. The secret for me is, are there Big Questions . Is the story interesting . Other Big Questions so that it is interesting . They dont have to be nice, they have to be human. Pulling out the emotional complexity so that we may not want to spend an hour in a railroad car with him but we can understand where he is coming from. I started getting into that, it was fascinating for me. On a big and little level. It was ok with me. And the complexity comes across in this outstanding book. Thank you very much for writing it. [applause] i guess if we have questions, do we have a microphone for questions . Remember, no thronging. One of the things that contributed to vanderbilt. I see it comes from the William Walker era. He said gentlemen, you have butged me, i would sue you the law takes too long. Instead, i will ruin you. That is considered the most famous letter in American Business history. The first time that appeared, it was in hisind, obituary in the new york times. A not too careful writer took something that he heard. 20 years later, an unrelated issue, when he had shut up all n tracks he said the law to my mind is too slow. I have the power in my head to hand to punish. That was a specific incident that was later. Is he had gone off on this grantor of europe in 1853. It was on a private yacht. Away, his partners himtrade him betrayed and kicked him out of the country. This set the stage for a big business battle. He wrote a letter to the press saying that i will sue you. What he really did was exactly the opposite. He said if we can settle this than the courts will decide. The course did not decide. Rival line and competed until they paid him off. He was going to sue first. This is something that was very interesting in researching this book. Court records were very critical. I stumbled into the New York County Clerks Office. I had never seen the New York County Clerks Office in histories of this. There are papers going back to the 1600s. There were old papers of people getting divorce decrees. They would bring out these bundled papers. I would be careful not to break them when i would fold them. They would have all these testimonies about secret deals. They werent suing because someone was insider trading. It is because they did not divide up the profits. He was sued again and again. Often, it was just a matter of leverage. He was never afraid of the courts. If he could do without the courts, he would prefer that. To the end of his life, he was in court all the time. We talk about all the teachers in society today. The first lawsuit he filed was in 1816. He was 22 years old. The Litigious Society goes along back to the beginning. To questions, first, do you watch gossip girl . There are descendents of the vanderbilts. They have season tickets to the mets game. Did any of the later figures that we now know as robber approachid they vanderbilts achievements . What do you think of the ones that followed . This is a difficult question, if you are a biographer, you are automatically convinced that you are writing about the most that everperson lived. I think it is so subjective. Even though they overlap. Then developed overlap with rockefeller. Vanderbilt overlapped with rockefeller. The kind of corporate world and Financial Markets that rockefeller and carnegie dealt with, vanderbilt created it. Continentspanning country, vanderbilt payroll in simply the geographic expansion of the u. S. I said the making of our economic values. Vanderbilt was at the heart of that, even as the young man printing advertising that picked up jacksonian rhetoric very explicitly, so i dont want in any way to diminish the importance of people like rockefeller and carnegie or many of these others. What they did is incredibly important in developing the economy and also in creating a lot of practices. Lot of practices. Jpmorgan of course in a very different way, jean straus is written brilliantly about his importance and as a banker he intersected and dealt with so many other areas of industrial america, wrote and other areas or dont want to diminish the importance and to a certain extent it is kind of meaningless to say, who is up and who is down . But the distinction as they said i would make is that vanderbilt carried this very formative period, born under the presidency of george washington, starting in business as a teenager before the war of 1812 when there were a few million americans living on a coastal strip and ending the state sector making deals with john d. Rockefeller. It is hard to match a career that length over such a formative period as well so the case that i make, sort of humbly because these other guys are so important is that that the key to his particular significance. The most comparable figure it seems to me in terms of the handson building of something is ford, who was somebody who built the first cars he had come adopted the assembly line, actually raced these cars as an advertisement for them and worked out the plan to pay his workers enough to create a market for his product and even ford did not switch suddenly midlife and go over to building airplanes or something. Which is essentially he did build tractors and things too, but that is true, but by the time he is quasisenile and they take the plant away from him and everything, but it is you know, then to build vanderbilt, the hands on part i think. His giant leaps that he made. One of the things about the book is almost a history of the American Economy just because he had such an on airing sends for kind of the primary channel of commerce and he would seize upon it. So when philadelphia and new york were the two Main Financial centers that is where his transportation line ran and then the erie canal opened, he is operating on the hudson. And then industrialization starred with the textile mills in new england so he enters the trade, the steamboat in real world lines in new england and new york. Then the gold rush. One step after another, an unairing sense for where the vital center of commerce was and goes directly to that, and manages to find a route and the Transportation System that at a decisive strategic an edge over its competitors and then made it pay. The mic is coming. Were there personal threats on him as far his life and security . Any enemies . That is an interesting question because there is a book, the day wall street exploded. We have seen a lot of attention given to the fact that you know these titans have been threatened and attacked in the past. In vanderbilts case, not that i know, the progress the matter that vanderbilt was famous even late in life when he was in the 1970s and 1980s and whether he really did this is an open question but he had a reputation for excepting all callers in his private office in the Washington Square district. He would raise, as kevin baker mentioned earlier, he would race his best trotters personally through the rural roads of upper manhattan, and as i said, into the 1850s or 1840s, the man was in his 50s and he occasionally got into fistfights, and he had this reputation. I have found Court Records where the guys suing and vanderbilt cossler says vanderbilt gently removed him and the guy somehow ends up unconscious. He was even drag racing in upper manhattan. He was the guy who felt could take of himself and i dont think he ever gave into personal threats, least none that he couldnt handle. It is interesting he died just before the kind of class war in the u. S. Really heats up. Later in the year he dies, there is a huge nationwide rail strike that gets very ugly and i guess he would probably been in the thick of that if he had lived. Yeah and that is something that i try to bring out in my book. One reason why i am glad that you are doing this event is that your novels bring out the multilayered society in new york. And, so well. That is something of course i am focusing on. I could only touch upon, but i tried to talk about the fact that this is a society which is growing more polarized, in which you have with the rise of Large Enterprises you have the rise of the Labor Movement and mass armies of people working for wages. Something that was new in america percuss of the social complexity of america develops during his life, and so vanderbilt, but its been interesting to see what would happen if he remained alive and in control for your to more because 1870s that one was a violent, nationwide labor conflict. Its a really interesting and troubling episode. Because this guy you cant spell to having his daughter is it his daughter who starts this society . It was his granddaughter. And i think it is interesting that William Vanderbilt vanderbilt had what was considered a substantial mansion. Vanderbilt was sort of the Washington Square, even though people in that novel would have shunned him probably for much of his life. He had a substantial brownstone but nothing fancier than that but ascendancy died, and is and is the trouble is subtle, and his grandchildren starting putting up the huge gilded age pallis. It was interesting that they waited until the old man as gone before they started spending lavishly in having these grand. I think he would have thought it was a lot of nonsense. He could spend 18,000 on a racehorse but by building a palace was beyond him. With all of his accomplishments, did he never think of science, medicine . That is a good question. As a little side no, through much of his life, what we think of as modern science and Technical Education and development, and he was a self educated engineer is essentially. He was probably one of the leading maritime architects and the paddle wheel aripeka, its designed his steamboats, often going against conventional wisdom so he was technically himself quite accomplished when it came to naval engineering, but when it comes to charity, he was a man who was not known for charity. His friends claim that he hated boasting, they did record so they claimed he engaged in private charity. Of course we dont know what he really did but it the end of this like he did make a point of endowing Vanderbilt University in nashville. However, i think there is good reason to think that yes he wanted to greed and institution of learning because he did feel for what his life the fact he was educated and every chance he had to speak, this was a great era of oratory, or you could not have tea without somebody getting up and giving a twohour speech. He would always have someone else speak for him so i think he did feel this lack of education but also part of this project with a Vanderbilt University reflected part of his patriotism. Having given a milliondollar steamship to the kenyan navy he made it very much a personal project to try to reach out to the south after the civil war. Of course he was in the white self. His second wife was an unrepentant confederate. He thought that was great. He had general braxton bragg, who denounced the abolition tyrant in his wartime orders as a witness at his second wedding, so when he reached out to the south, we are talking white south but it did reflect his sincere, taking him on his own terms, that he wanted to kind of show the north and men have fought for the union wanted to restore the union afterwards, so that is why he very much wanted to endow the university in the south. What would vanderbilt say to obama right now about what is going on with their Financial System and with our economy . What would his advice be . He would wonder first of all how a black man became president. I think that would astound him. That is the difficult question. And i think we are probably, shall we make this the last question . So, this is a sort of question that historians hate because, frankly anyone of you could get up and make a pronouncement on this and it would probably be as accurate as mine. It is utterly and provable. What i would say is this, there to counterbalancing sides. One, he always believed that laissezfaire. Also outed nealy suited him when he was a corporate chief. You did not believe in the government getting involved in the economy. As he once put it when they were trying to pass a law in new york state to regulate the railroads, he saw it in terms of private interests being the key to a wellfunctioning economy and he said if you can pass a law that makes men serve their interests more effectively than their interest of themselves will compel them, that is fine but i dont think you can. He thought Society Works by everybody pursuing their own interests. On the other hand he grasps the economy, which after the civil war the federal government took on an unprecedented new economy and with the panic of 1873, he stepped in and said the treasury should be increasing liquidity by issuing greenbacks. He was calling for eclair type of federal intervention in the economy. Very much limited compared to what we are doing now so no i cant tell you what he would say to president obama, but i can say that at the very least he would have had a sophisticated you and a pragmatic view, so he did have these clear laissezfaire and jacksonian believes. On the other hand, he took the world as it was and he saw what he needed but what was needed under the rules that existed. So, he probably would have at the very least a pragmatic view of what is going on. I think he would be a little astonished by businessmen who expected the government to bail them out and still expected to have a major say in how they would run things. Absolutely. He would be amazed at that, the idea you could rely and somebody else for the money and still expect to be in charge. You make your bets and you live by a the result was his belief. When he lost, he did everything he could to get back what he thought was his, but you know as he said you pick your friends and you have to suffer the consequences. Thank you very much. [applause]