Panel will. Now get to really ask the questions i wanted to ask all day. And you guys are in a captive audience. So know if anybody does have questions for the panel. We like to keep this open for us. But they spent a lot of their time doing research. So now time to make them a little more personal. So i would like to the first question i have for you guys is, do you weve studied outwards of the American Revolution in the national sphere. What made you decide to study this aspect, this niche . What was that defining moment, if there was one, ill take it. Ill start it off. So the easy answer for me, if i mentioned were doing an exhibition, this topic is a significant sound that that opens up. We knew that we wanted to do an exhibition about the stuarts. We thought we were going to do one about james. The first two, of course, is the namesake for jamestown, where we have one of our one of our museums. And then we realized that the exhibition would really be incomplete if we just focused on the stuarts and and england and the coming of Great Britain. It would be incomplete without talking about the relationships that that impacted in the colonies. Right. And then more to we realized through a lot of focus group studies that weve done that people are really interested in learning about stories that mean something to them. So what better way to to do that than situate what does the monarchy what does the stuart era to us in virginia . What does that mean to us in the 17th century, the coming of the revolution, and then ultimately the legacies of that era that inherited today, you know, for for better or for worse, the good, the bad and the ugly and so its really been an. Lens through which to to view not just the coming of the revolution, but better understanding the world that we live in today by looking at the revolution. But from the position the 18th century, from my perspective i had been researching the revolutionary war for about 25 years and after i finished my guidebook series, i was looking for something to do. And because im a french and french, im a french descendant of french ancestry, i found that there was a relatively dearth of french material, so i started diving into researching french documentation and exploring that aspect of the war. And thats what led me into some of resources and several of the sources im currently working with have never been published in 250 years, which really surprised me. And in the process of looking for a publisher for the book that i currently have in press, i had one publisher actually tell me that they were not interested in primary. Because. They published only secondary sources. Yes, we can just continue working down the line at this point. You know, as as was said earlier, growing up and ive always had a deep affinity and interest in the revolutionary period. Its always been more than any particular la episode. The people and the personnel qualities that i found most interesting and i have to give great thanks and credit and appreciation to my parents for making sure that. I was exposed to museums and libraries and primary sources and all sorts of wonderful opportunities. A child which has led to a career in museums and im very blessed and, thankful to have specific to. George mason you know, ironically, i was reading a biography, Patrick Henry that reference, george mason really didnt know a whole lot about george mason before that, not unlike many, many other people. If your primary biography is entitled the forgotten founder, you a bit of a pr problem going in and i was like i dont really know too much about george mason. I need to learn more about this guy. So, you know, basically just started more about george mason, ended up with gunston hall. So thats kind of how that worked out. So when i wrote my first book, the cabinet, on George Washingtons creation of that institution, i discovered it was not in the constitution and therefore was really a product of his prior experience, and he basically copied and pasted his experience from the revolutionary war with his counsels of war directly into the presidency. And so i became this believer that we cannot you know, as i as i said, as i off my talk, we cannot just look at one period of a persons life we have to understand what comes. So i wrote that book on. The cabinet included the information about the revolution. And then i became really convinced by what happens after create something. Theres this concept of founders, itis. So when anyone starts a company or an organization and they ultimately have to leave, thats the weakest point of that organization because that handoff is really difficult and yet we have built that into our system almost every four or every eight years. And so i started thinking about, okay, well then what happened after washington left . And had kind of dismissed adams presidency as i think so many did, and ed and Current Events really challenged me to think about the importance of that transition process and then because i was this believer and you have to understand the entire life scope of someone really started to dig in to adams prior experiences and look at the of his Foreign Policy and his diplomacy as a Lifelong Mission which hopefully will really come through in this next project. I spent a lot of time and effort on the frontier, which was kind of by happenstance. But in the back of my mind, i kept wondering, okay, how does the revolution fit the broader world . What else is going on in the world so that as these events occur here, which is what we tend to talk most about in the United States, whats going on in france, whats going on in the netherlands, whats going on spain . The siege of gibraltar is massive. We dont talk about it, but was an instrumental part of the American Revolution in the sense that it meant spain, even france were spending more resources on gibraltar than were in the western hemisphere. So they had little itch in the back of my brain. Whats going on in the world . How is the revolution affecting the rest of the world . How do we put it in the context. For the rest of the world and . You know, while i the soviet studies major way back and and it seemed like a reasonable to ask yourself there. Yeah i, i know its scary. You know thank you all. So if there is any questions off, the people at home from the sa. Okay, i just want to be sure they stay included. So as you do, obviously you start with the Research Goal and then you start going down. Were there any personas or things that surprised as you uncovered these different aspects and your research. One of the things that surprised me was roshumba was, which i know we spoke about this morning, but id never heard about until i came across it in a little bit. Diary and then there are a number of other diaries where there little tidbits of things that come out and it surprise you when you when you find them. But nobody, nobody touches upon that. For example, another another piece of information that i found was that two officers in russian both army were involved in a duel just before well, actually three weeks before marching to new york and in the process of researching that, i found out there were some 30 duels that were fought in rhode island. Within, the french army, because it seemed like the the french army was more intent in fighting amongst themselves than they were against the enemy. Ill jump in and say the paucity information. Frankly, i started to panic. There between those two. The subject was thinking legal firm neutrality. There was established precedent, which they tried to apply during napoleon during the napoleonic wars didnt work too well. And believe it or not, france and britain discussed it during the american war. And i was i was definitely in a panic. Theres nothing there. I was dusting off old russian, long, outofprint history books. I was dusting off books about international relations, the world system and, you know, 1778, 1779, 1780. And they just didnt deal with it. And i think it goes back to what i want to talk about a little bit, which was because it was because really, sadly came of it. It didnt warrant a lot of study. But i kept coming back to it and going, well, this is a huge what if moment. How do i find material and i think i mentioned i lucked out and found all the original documents in two volumes published during world war one and they published as a as part of a debate between the british and the americans. Ironically, over mutual rights during warfare, british had a particular view, the same one, and the americans, not surprisingly, had a different view that, you know, were neutral, you cant stop our ships. So you know, gold mine and were off and running. And i didnt call you guys in a panic or picking off up the information theme here. One of the things we often dont talk enough about as historians is how much work is is limited and shaped. What documents are out there. And so while i dont want to scoop myself out, i discovered this development out in theodore sedgwicks papers. Theodore sedgwick was a senator from massachusetts. He was initially a very close ally of adams. He talks about his meetings with him when he was president. He reveals adams political genius. To find out more, youll have to tune in. But because those papers arent digitized, theyre not microfiche. That means you actually have to go to the masses, see this historical society, and see those documents, and theyre in script. A lot of people arent taught cursive anymore. And so so that really limits the number of people that are going to talk about this thing, including the number of historians, which, if you will, allow me to get on soapbox for just one moment. This is why history is never stale or and why it must continue to be written and revisited, because there are houses in new england that still have boxes of letters that have yet to be discovered, because thats what new englanders tend to do. So we will continue to learn things and discover things. And thats so important and why history should constantly be evolving. What i would just say is, you know, as i shared earlier, theres not a lot of archival information about about george mason, but one of the great opportunities we have at gunston hall, where we literally learn something new every day. And just by way of context, gunston hall presently, while a 6000 acre plantation historically, we still have 550 acres today and we have a very, very active, robust archeological program. And that is the source for the greatest amount of information that were learning about, not just gunston hall, but even more importantly, all of the people that lived at that place over a much longer period than even masons were there. Were learning a tremendous amount about the indigenous communities that were there before, colonization. We are incredibly Important Information about the enslaved community and the artifacts were finding are not just interesting and compelling but are allowing us to fundamentally transform and expand the story were telling were learning stories about indentured servants that were there, tenant farmers. And i would just say that that that while i dont know if i would use the word surprise but these discoveries this process of discovery is just exciting. Its invigorating. And its allowing us to tell a much broader, much more truthful, much more honest, compelling and interesting story about about this place and all of the people. And thats really what all of at gunston hall, i think would say in many ways is add surprises and mysteries and most importantly, new knowledge every day. Its really fascinating to be part of that process. Thank you, george mason. Maybe forgotten, but he does have the name of a Great University in Northern Virginia that, has supplied a lot of great history majors that are sitting in this room. So yours truly to plug locate anything you know that i have anything to add its its interesting i guess, you know, playing off of what lindsey mentioned earlier that history is important to think of not just as stagnant or done or stale, just because it was in the past we have to keep going back to learn from it and something i like to say that i you know, like to keep on a little postit note on my monitor at work is, you know, doesnt change. But our relationship to it does pretty constantly, right kind of depending on where we are standing in our present moment, our relationship to our past going to change. And so something ive been thinking about lately, working through looking at the 18th century or the 17th century through the lens of the 18th or vice versa, is that that must have been something that the quote unquote founders were thinking about to. Because if you think about the 17th century and english history, it can be very it can be very tempting to forget that, you know, that english history is virginia history and vice versa. And so i do imagine that maybe there was a moment where the, you know, quote unquote, Founding Fathers were were thinking, wait a minute, this was our history. This was our, you know, common shared past, our relationship with it is now changing because of our present moment. And so thinking about that, you know, being that throughline has been maybe not surprising, but very illuminating for me. I did the math on this the other day and i think this context is so helpful. So at the Constitutional Convention that all cromwell had died 120 years before. So thats us talking about the age, which there is television on hbo, a Television Show on hbo about the gilded age right now. So that history was so present to them. If we think about, you know, we study civil war all the time. Were talking about the revolution, which is, you know, 200 and almost 250 years ago. So i think that that math is just really important to think about and it makes us reconsider their relationship to those figures. You know, questions. I think the person we have read and its dead ringers for the pride themselves on having a Constitutional Monarchy even if they dont have a written constitution just wondering at king george the third at that time was it truly a Parliament Making these decisions to with soldiers on the ground have this war or was it really this great influence of king george the third really wanting this . And this was like a personal issue for him. Oh, gosh. I think there are many different ways to answer that question. I think we would all answer it differently. I mean, i guess im choosing to look at this not necessarily from the perspective of george the third or parliament, but from the perspective colonists who originally did not see george the third as the aggressor. They did not see him as the same. Right. Whats the word im looking for a tyrant that, charles. The first was their problems were with parliament, you know, like we discussed earlier and to just up until a point, there was a point when they are when colonists are trying to issue i mean, like the olive branch and theyre saying, hey, you know, king george, we really love you. Can you do something about this . Can you help us out . And its only when george has has ignored that petition that that starts changing the attitudes of the colonists towards. Now wait a minute he really is the problem but its not just him, its parliament too. And then of course we know that you know, george wants he wants to push this. He wants to continue the war until, you know, until he basically breaks it all down in the british, you know, when. Right. So i think to a certain point, it does become personal for him because he to keep going and its his cabinet and its parliament that has to tell him like this is over. This is so over. Yeah, im so im really sorry, sir. I to that. But. Through a revolution for the people arent dying the streets ever since william and mary they came in and they virtually had to sign a contract to get to be king and queen in order that the contracts that parliament is supreme. Well, it wasnt quite easy as you go through the georges really. The problem there was that he selected his Prime Minister, the king selected the Prime Minister. Until you get to george, the third and the American Revolution and other things going on and then you get a row between fox and pitts, was it was it . Yes. Fox and pitt and the king is wanting to put his Prime Minister in to dictate policy to parliament, eventually says enough and passes a law that says the king cannot appoint ministers. Thats a consequence of the American Revolution and part of this ongoing change you know you get the chart look chart its laws and so on reform acts later but there are concerns concerns of the American Revolution. Thank you. I find that really interesting. I appreciate it. My next question final question is for Scott George Mason has all this property in mason neck and all of stafford. Im just wondering what generation or what time period did all this start getting sold off or lost or split among what happened . Sure. Fabulous. So very briefly, because theres a lot of as i said, it was lot of georges out there, different george. Sir. He had nine children that survived to adulthood. Theres still many examples. The of the estates that he left to his children. Holland hall and still, you know, park in in this area Roosevelt Island was bequeathed to his youngest son, john was part of a Mason Holding specific to gunston hall, though the family ultimately sold gunston hall the 1867. They had begun trying to sell it in the 1820s. By that point, it the soil was completely depleted. The timber was all gone and it was advertised. You could have bought the whole plant for like 1500 dollars and the advertisement in the alexandria paper referencing the access to the abundance fisheries of the Potomac River as their primary selling point. But one of the interesting things you with his oldest son, who gunston hall dying only four years after he did his oldest son george. The fifth died in 1796. There are a series of very transitional still family, but very transitional owners, cousins and second cousins. There were periods of no active residency until ultimately they sold it in 1867, so i believe it was eric that brought it up earlier in the Panel Discussion about the paucity of sources in regards to some of the work that you all have done. And were thinking a lot about the theme today of. The American Revolutions impact on the global and as a bibliophile, selfproclaimed bibliophile and book collector, i think a lot about you know published works in the and when it comes to this topic in this era when theres more books written about George Washington than you can shake a stick the Founding Fathers theres a Pretty Healthy dose of military history of the era and some aspects and offshoots but when we talk about the American Revolutions impact on a global scale, not only as the impact leaves shores and heads elsewhere, but also impact from elsewhere, influencing the events that are going on in the colonies. Can you talk a little bit about maybe the paucity of published works on the Global Impact of the American Revolution and maybe speak to why that may be in the last 250 years . I can jump in on that. So well, first, i should say that the scholar elijah gould is writing a book that i think will resolve a lot of these issues. Its on sort of the American Revolution globally and impact afterwards. There theres also a book called the problems of democracy. See, thats on both. John adamss and i that it talks about some of the themes that weve been talking about. But i think one of the one of the challenges with this work is there are a few wonders. The challenge that if youre going to be talking about the french or the haitian revolution or the Russian Revolution or, you know, you name it, it requires global travel. And that is that is not something that is available to everyone. That is not something that is feasible. And at various times, different archives have been open or not. It requires language, abilities that i frankly do not have. Im a terrible linguist and so and most people, if they are good at languages, theyre good at one or two, but might not be able to to all of the revolutions. Lastly, i think there has been for a long time in the academy and outside a siloing of our history. We have american history, we have french history, we have russian history, we have british history in some times when it makes sense, theres an overlap. Some of those things, but not nearly enough. Certainly world is more interconnected now than it was then, but they believed that it was deeply interconnect it. And so i think that we should do. One of the things that i found in my research is that some of the materials that ive been acquiring or obtaining have been very difficult to come by. And i figured if i as a librarian, have this kind of difficulty since i know how system works and where were are and how to get them. If i have had these difficulties, the average researcher is certainly not going to be able to navigate this. These these avenues very readily. So in the process of the things i get on interlibrary or through other other means, ive been digitizing them so that can pass them on to posterity when, when im gone. Or discerned. Yes, ive be interested in the anybody. The Panel Discussion, what their views are on the meaning of the American Revolution. I mean, theres a bunch of people out there that believe that just you know, you just change from bunch of old white guys, one set of old white guys. And those are white guys. And there really wasnt a revolution. Right. And so some people believe that it was just a mere Political Revolution. We changed one form of government for another form of government. And it wasnt a social revolution. So my question to the panel is it was what kind of revolution. Was it was it a Political Revolution social revolution or both. Its a big question also an economic revolution. What i would just say very briefly couldnt save that one for happy hour. I was going to im sure well talk more later. I think i think its all of that but but i think to me and way we try to think about it at gunston hall is that its about the ideas, you know, we talk about at gunston hall all the time is being idea focused and focusing on the ideas. And what i would suggest in is it in many ways it was a revolution ideas and that the true meaning the revolution is in understanding those ideas, also fulfilling the promise. Now and into the future of what those ideas represent that this isnt just about time and a place rooted hundred almost 250 years ago. This is about all that has happened since, as youve heard about and all of the continuing contemporary relevance. Even more importantly, all that still needs to be done done. Thank you. At least thats what we try to you know, we try to do through our work at gunston hall have more to do. Were not perfect at it, but thats how were trying to approach it. I really love answer and i would i would build off it, which is to say that, you know, we often think of the declaration of independence as a founding document, but i would argue that so constitution the promise that we will try and create a more Perfect Union is inherently based on the promise is of life liberty and the of happiness even if it doesnt explicit articulate those as what makes a more Perfect Union. I think that the revolution itself was fairly moderate. Dont tell gordon what. Hell be very upset. But what i think is radical, it is the ideas. And i think that the framers had the good sense and maybe good luck to create a system that was not radical but just flexible enough to allow the ideas to continue to develop over time. We have the longest Living National constitution in the longest living constitu ation. Does anyone know what it is and who it was written by . Here, heres some whispering in the back. So i think its actually the massachusetts constitution, which was written by john adams. Yes. So but so. Yes, i know. I was really setting you guys up, but so but thats remarkable that our constitution has lived long. And i think its because it allows for enough flexibility for us to continue to try and grapple with those ideas and to figure out what should they mean and how do we want to try and achieve them. Whats up with the court that . I said, is the most random fact of the day that it is and it may not be the longest written constitution, but its the longest, i think, committee gathering to talk about ideas and so forth because they discovered it and it dates back to the viking exploration of iceland. So they werent writing things down, but they were drinking and talking. You know, two of the three as they say, said, yeah, john adams waterproof up to title of the impact to a scale one might argue perhaps cooler heads could have got to a situation where rebellion a revolt might not have occurred. I dont think that actually is the case. I think you rebellious lot would have kicked the traces. Whatever happened. But as we would say in cricket what happened to the other side, what happened to britain . Well you heard this morning that the fourth dutch war, just about the dutch the Dutch East India Company persisted a while, but they were a major commercial competitor for britain. This left of course, spain and france getting out of america, actually remove a distraction and allowed britain to concentrate more on that. French, spanish situation. We into what is arguably First World War because it was the napoleonic war but hooray 21st of october 1805 of that sorted out the french spanish fleet at the battle of trafalgar. And what that did do what did happen after 1815 when napoleon was eventually sent down to the south atlantic, that created a chance for britain to become probably the most powerful empire that the world has ever seen. And i speak of a country where there are 193 nations in, the United Nations britain has invaded. 176 of them, just heck of a claim to fame. Its just building off of. And its funny because i think we are actually about this. In the last Symposium Panel that i was on, if it hadnt have been for cornwallis defeat at yorktown, would cornwallis have gone to india . Because, you know, thats thats what really the scene for you know empire building that you know that Great Britain is going to you know continue to to explore and thats the empire you know on which the sun sets so we could have a whole conversation about how the removal of colonial distraction in north you know begat opportunity but you know of course problems and and consequences a very negative way for a vast majority the world so so as we have a few minutes left lets segway since were getting closer to the happy hour, do some happy hour of type. Since we have to wait till august of 2024 for dr. Stravinskys next book. And it is a walk down the steps to. Get norms books downstairs and also erics. Whats one book on your subject you would recommend for to read one book . David . David lovejoys glorious revolution in america is very, very good. I really like the way that he explores the impact, the glorious revolution and regionally, virginia is a small slice of that, i think the vast majority of the book is, is new england and the impact of the glorious revolution. And in england is vastly different from the impact in i like thinking about regionality and i like thinking about the specificity of virginia as a place so i like that you know micro history zeroing in but i recommend that so david lovejoy. The one book that i would find most useful, the encyclopedia of the american. If you read the first and second editions were published by mark maile, boatner in a group not grolier. Im drawing a blank. The publisher, gail gail publishing, has done a third edition which has taken a lot of what boatner has updated its, expanded it. So theres a lot a lot stuff in the new edition that is much more valuable and. Im finding that nobody is is really quoting from that anymore. Theyre still using the 1974 edition of boatner. There that many books about george mason. Yeah. So so my response focus more on the Global Impact and following up with the gentleman that that asked the question about why isnt there more the one book that really enlightened my thinking about the broader impact and i say broader beyond the 13 colonies but also globally and im drawing a blank on the author forgive me. The title of the book is independence lost. It explores the revolutionary the history of, the revolutionary period and the impact on diverse communities. The deep south and along the gulf coast, and really talks a lot about. The very diverse indigenous communities, but also the caribbean space in france and how it all interrelated. And its just a fascinating book that really someone who grew up in philadelphia and has lived in virginia really broadened my perspective on that period. And different geographic but also communities that were impacted as well. Yes thats correct thank you. So if you want to learn more about the cabinet, George Washington, that book is available downstairs and online. Buy it for this topic. John adams and John Quincy Adams were able to do what they did because there was a im not allowed to say this word bad beep woman at home Abigail Adams made all of this possible. She ran farm. She kept things financially literate. She was the one that was funneling diplomatic secrets between the two of them. And when john adams president. So she made all of it and she was john adams number one advisor. So there is a phenomenal biography of her called Abigail Adams by woody holton. I highly recommend cannot get enough credit. Yes Abigail Adams. Isabel dement material shes long since passed but came out in the 1960s. It is completely and totally out of print. Forget the long title. Just like the declaration of principles if you can find it. God bless you. If you cant find it, keep looking. She had access to james harris, the ambassador in st petersburg, to his diary, and really dug through a lot of details. Sometimes the strategic story gets lost for the details, but. By far the best and perhaps the only book about the army neutrality thats available. If i can add a book west of the revolution, talking whats happening around americas while were rebelling on the east coast. So lets dabble a little bit into the what if with the last. So there are some honorary citizenships that is given to certain individuals the revolutionary period we we didnt about the spanish de but bernardo de galvez who helped funnel supplies and i think the market off yeah but youre now the president United States and you have to give an honorary citizenship to one person who would that be from your research wed all have to start in order. This is be anybody can jump in but im giving you was that living . No. From the family from the revolution. Or it can be a living person if you want to put yourself there. So. John locke. John locke. Louis dupont. I ill probably go back to thaddeus. Q if it hasnt already been so recorded, ill toss in the French Foreign minister in because without france revolution doesnt work. Actually, i should clarify my because the louis dupont, i was an american citizen even though he was french because 1777 Congress Passed a resolution that all officers should swear allegiance to congress. They did delayed the allegiance. The the elite. So the oath of allegiance for the french officers until after until after france joined the war so when during the french revolution a lot of french officers came to america. They were already french citizens, american, because the they had a sign that the allegiance was as all good historians we are running out of time. You can vote if you want to continue this conversation. Were going to head over to gatsbys where there was plenty of conversations about the new republic and so forth so thatll happen at 30, correct . Yeah. And it was still this is thunder come. Well, thank you all again for coming. And as we do at the were going to celebrate gatsby as at 430 make sure you buy everyones book. Thank you again for participating and as we said gatsbys has a. Anand peter carmichael. I am the director of the Cyber Institute here at gettysburg college. Im also a member of the history department. And its my pleasure this afternoon to introduce to you trevor plant. Trevor is the director of the Textual Records Division at the National Archives building in washington, dc. Ill translate that for you all. Trevor has a very important job in the field of history. Trevor is the friend of every historian. Trevor is a really likable guy. But if you didnt like him and youre a historian, hes still going to be really nice to him because archivist have all the power. Now i got a