Transcripts For CSPAN3 The 20240704

Diana carlin is a professor emerita of communication at Saint Louis University and a retired faculty member, an administrator at the university of kansas. Her research and teaching are in political communication, with an emphasis on women in politics. First ladys political debates and president ial rhetoric. She published book chapters on first ladys martha washington. Lady bird johnson. Barbara bush. Hillary clinton and Michelle Obama. And is completing one on julia grant. She taught a course on the rhetoric of first ladies at kansas and an interdisciplinary course on first ladies at Saint Louis University and American University in fall 2022. She also teaches courses on first ladies for the ocean, a Lifelong Learning institute at cu, and lectures on first ladies for a variety of community groups. She was a panelist at the 2021 White House Historical association asian symposium and the 2020 colloquium. She is a Founding Member of flair, the first ladys association for research and education, and serves as players treasurer. Welcome, dr. Carlin to history. Happy hour. Good evening, everyone, and thank you very much, samantha and the white house. Historic association for the invitation to share this presentation of first ladies and civil rights. Ive chosen two photos for this title slide down in the lower left. Theres a photo of the washington hands, which would have been probably either in new york or philadelphia, showing them at home with their grandchildren and up in the upper right corner. There is a servant who was one of their enslaved workers who they brought from mount vernon to their president ial home. And this would have been a typical scene, apparently up in the upper right hand corner as Eleanor Roosevelt with Marian Anderson. And theres a very interesting story that will go with that photo to show the contrast and the change in times between the washingtons and Eleanor Roosevelt. And then what happened after eleanor . So lets begin with the washingtons. If you think about the history of our first ladies in civil rights, its a checkered past. And we have to begin to look at the washington and a precedent that they set. They brought their enslaved servants to the president s home, both in new york and philadelphia when they went to philadelphia for the second capital. They had to circumvent a philadelphia law in order to keep their enslaved workers with them. There was a law that said that any enslaved person who was in the city of philadelphia for more than six months was freed. So what washingtons did was they sent their enslaved workers back and forth between mount vernon and their president ial home. And this was a way of having anyone, not having anyone there for more than six months during one of those transition periods. Marthas personal oil made by these men owner, also known as on each judge, escaped. She knew when the transition was happening and she used that as an opportunity to leave slidell. Theres a wonderful book that i recommend to you to find out about the washingtons and their runaways enslaved worker. Its called never caught by Erica Armstrong dunbar and it shows the relentless pursuit that the washingtons had mainly at marthas insistence. President posted notices and papers. They sent people looking for her, but on it never was caught. And so the story at least had an ending of freedom for her. Marthas letters. A new edition has just been published by the now cutting mt. Vernon and has every letter that she wrote or received from the time she was widowed with her first husband, daniel custers. Most of the almost all of the letters between the washingtons, however, were burned. So there were only three that escaped kind of by accident. But in those letters, you really get marthas view of slavery, where she accepted it as an institution, and also accepted the inferiority of those individuals who they enslaved. When Michelle Obama gave a speech at the 2016 Democratic National convention, she noted that she woke up every morning to in a house that was built by enslaved workers and the White House Historical association took that as cue for them to do some research. And so they had a multiyear project called slavery in the president s neighborhood. And if you havent looked at it on the Historical Association website, i really encourage you to do that. These are some of the facts that they present in that section of their web page. But enslaved workers did indeed build the white house, and they rebuilt it. After the war of 1812. Many of those were hired out, but there were definitely enslaved labor from quarrying. The stone all the way to the finishing touches. Eight president s after the washingtons also brought their own enslaved workers or hired them. That was jefferson madison, monroe, John Quincy Adams, which is going to be a surprise when we hear what is mother abigail thought about slavery. Andrew jackson, martin van buren, tyler polk and taylor. 12 president s at some time in their lives, foreign slave workers, washington, jefferson, madison wrote. Jackson. Van buren. Harrison. Tyler polk. Taylor johnson and grant and grants probably a surprise that he married into a missouri slave owning family, and he was given some enslaved workers by his father in law that he worked side by side with them, and he did eventually give them their freedom at the white house. These enslaved workers performed a variety of jobs. They were chefs, gardeners, stable hands, maids, butlers, valets, ladies, ladies and. And did all sorts of other cleaning and other work around the white house. So we had this long history up until the lincolns of having a lot of enslaved workers in the white house itself. But things changed with first ladies, beginning with this with Abigail Adams, who had a very, very different opinion of slavery from her predecessor, martha washington. Abigail was an abolitionist and shortly after john adams was inaugurated, and abigail wasnt there at the time. That was not a typical first lady. Martha was not there for georges inauguration either. But martha had written a letter at one point in her life to john which said that and fortunately how could they, the southerners, reconcile human bondage with the ideology of freedoms that america had fought for. And abigail hired a free africanamerican named james, who worked at their farm. And during the early days of the atlas administration, she wrote to her husband about a rather upsetting incident in which she was trying to get james educated. And she believed in education. She was part of a first education, first lady. And so she fought for him to attend to local school. But there was a neighbor who objected and she responds to that neighbor. And she told her husband with the question, is this the christian principle of doing to others as we would have others do to us . Abigail eventually prevailed, not surprisingly, and james was educated after abigail. The next first lady, to show any interest in civil rights and equality for africanamericans was mary lincoln, who had come from a slaveholding family that some of her family fought for the south. But mary saw the horrors of slavery, and many of her family members did free their enslaved workers. Mary seamstress Elizabeth Keckley was a free African American and she informed mary of the plight of many of the former enslaved workers who were fleeing to the north during the civil war and that they were living in poverty. They were starving. And mary personally gave hundreds of dollars of her own money to those individuals to keep them fed and clothed. And she also wrote letters on behalf of some of these freed slaves for government positions, including for Elizabeth Keckley. Between the civil war and Eleanor Roosevelt, who really was the first lady who took so many stances on this issue, there was lucy hayes, who you just heard about in a recent op Ed White House history happy hour. Lizzie hayes was known for her temperance stance, but she was also an abolitionist and had been an abolitionist early on in addition to being a suffragist. And she encouraged her husband before the white house years and during and before the civil war to defend runaway slaves who had escaped from kentucky into ohio. And then as first lady, she was concerned not only with the plight of africanamericans, but also native americans. And she personally funded a scholarship for native american girl, and she assisted an African American woman in getting admitted to oberlin college. She invited the first africanamerican professional musician, marie williams, to perform at the white house and Frederick Douglass introduced her. She also invited other black music groups, including students, to sing at white house events. Helen nellie taft, whos in the bottom left hand corner, developed an appreciation for Cultural Diversity when they were in the philippines and. That taft was the governor general of the philippines at the time. She found that there was a color line and that the soul pianos were not being invited to events. Well, she changed all of that. And they really considered her to be very egalitarian. She also looked at the plight of africanamerican immigrants who were in washington, d. C. , and tried to do some things for them. And she invited them to White House Open houses, which had not been done before, and added africanamericans to the staff. She believed that education was a great equalizer, and she supported the start of kindergarten classes for black children. Well, shes best known for bringing the cherry trees to washington. Her civil rights activities are lesser known, but they were certainly very important. Next to her in the middle of a lower row is glenn wilson, who was Woodrow Wilsons first wife. She was a southerner whose family were also slaveholders. And she was not the most progressive of our first ladies on this in this particular area. But she did do some things that were very important and something similar to what well talk about with Lady Bird Johnson. And that was that there were the housing situation was terrible for africanamericans and immigrants. And she helped with the passage of something known as the l. A. Bill. And she worked through a group called the National Civic federation womens division. And she took members of congress to see this awful housing situation. And really worked very, very hard with members of congress to get that bill passed. Lou . Henry hoover on the bottom right was a trailblazer in many, many ways. And theres been a wonderful history happy hour program on her in the last year also. But when the first 20th century africanamerican congressman, oscar stanton, the priest from illinois, was elected to congress in 1929, the depressed were not getting the usual social invitations. And mrs. Hoover wanted to do something about that. And jesse priest, mrs. Dupree, still welcome. So typically, first ladies often host teas, especially for the spouses of members of congress. And so she worked to get a special tea for mrs. Priest, inviting cabinet wives and other congressional wives. So she knew would make mrs. Priest feel comfortable and who agreed with her and the president about the importance of African Americans in the Republican Party and also about having them more involved in the political scene. So she had the tea party and it was a firestorm. They received hate mail. There was incredible criticism in newspapers, editorials about what she had done and all she had done was extended the courtesy of mrs. Duprees to served president hoover to show his support for what his wife had done, then invited Booker T Washington to the white house. And he also invited some of the president s of some of the historic black colleges to the white house. So this was a statement by the two of them where they hung together, but they certainly did not let the criticism stand in their way of continuing to do some work with the leaders of the black colleges. And also to make everyone know that this was an important part of the stamps that he was taking as a republican. So after that group of first ladies and there was eleanor and you know, mrs. Roosevelt is known for completely changing the whole atmosphere of what a first lady does. And extending it beyond what anyone had ever thought before she worked extensively with civil rights leaders. She was way ahead of her husband. So every one of the leaders of the major civil Rights Groups she worked with, she joined the naacp. She also cochaired the National Committee to abolish the poll tax and she worked for anti lynching legislation with lynching was a major problem in the early thirties and she was unsuccessful with wrenching legislation. But she certainly made her position known. She was invited to address the 1936 national conventions, and she also convened a National Conference of women at the white house. Eleanor was also very supportive of the tuskegee airmen, and the photo on the bottom is a photo of her flying with them, and she showed that she not only supported having African American troops in the military, but that she was confident of what they were doing. One other thing that was interesting about eleanor, before i talk about mary and anderson is that the ku klux klan put a bounty of 25,000 on her head at one point. Probably the thing that she is most noted for in the most public declaration of her support for equal rights was resigning from the daughters of the american revolution. Marian anderson, a control to who was internationally known, wanted to sing. There, and they had a whites only policy. There was public sentiment that she should be allowed. However, the d. A. Did not back down. Eleanor originally decided to invite ms. Anderson to the white house and then she decided that she needed something bigger. So she worked behind the scenes with secretary of the interior and they scheduled a concert at the lincoln memorial. And this is a picture on the top of Marian Anderson singing at the lincoln memorial. And it was also broadcast on radio. 75,000 people integrated audience was there to see and hear Marian Anderson. And this is a copy of the famous letter that she sent to the d. A. My dear mrs. Henry and robert, i am afraid that i have never been a very useful member of the daughters of the american revolution. So i know of very little difference to you whether i resign or whether i continue to be a member of your organization. However, i am in complete disagreement with the attitude taken in refusing Constitution Hall to great artist. You have set an example, which seems to me unfortunate and i feel obliged to send into you my resignation. You had an opportunity to lead in an enlightened way, and it seems to me that your organization has failed. I realize that many people will not agree with me. The feeling is i do. This seems to me the only proper procedure to follow very sincerely, yours. So that was eleanor who really opened the floodgates for wider first ladies to take very, very active positions. Mamie eisenhower does not one who anyone would really expect to have publicly done much. And she didnt. But behind the scenes, she was very supportive and defended her husbands decision to send federal troops into little rock to integrate the schools. In 1953, the first year that they were in the white house, they had they reinstated the easter egg roll, which had been stopped for several years, mainly during the war years. And she noticed that there were only white children. And so she made it very clear that in 1954, the White House Easter Egg Roll would be integrated. And so that happened only a few months before the famous brown v board of Education School desegregation decision. She also was very much involved with the National Council of women, and they made her an honorary member, and she had them at the white house frequently. She and her husband hosted the first state dinner at which a president of a country, haiti, of african descent, attended a state dinner. So mamie did her little thing behind the scenes, oftentimes with the defense of her husband, but also some very, very public statements that she made about equality. Jackie kennedy also made some statements with some of her activities. She supported a memorial to the black activist mary mcleod. The soon she made several visits and to poverty stricken areas in washington, d. C. And she also requested that a black opera singer sing at the white house. So following some of the leads of some of her predecessors in terms of using entertainment, Lady Bird Johnson took the next major step, and that was in 1964, after the passage of the civil rights bill. She went on a whistle stop tour, campaigns to her tour. It was difficult for Lyndon Johnson to go into the south after the passage of the civil rights bill. But lady bird, who had Southern Roots and who had family from alabama and used to spend much of her childhood there, summers said she would take it on, and she gave some pretty dramatic speeches that made it very clear what her position was. She said in one speech, i know that many of you do not agree with the civil rights bill or the president s support of it. It would be a bottomless tragedy for our country to be racial divided. This is not a challenge only in the south. It is a national challenge. This was such a dangerous trip that they were bomb threats. They had to run an empty engine ahead of her train just because of bomb threats on the tracks. She was also heckled, but she showed great poise and grace and made it clear that they had their right to speak. But she also did. Lady bird. Beautiful Nation Program was a lot more than billboards and cleaning up highways. She also worked as head on wilson and some of the neighborhoods in washington where minorities were living and did a great deal to improve those neighborhoods at some of the schools. So lady bird really was a definitely a champion of civil rights in a way that no other first lady had publicly gone on a campaign on her own during president ial Election Year and made such a serious statement. Barbara bush is down in the lower left hand corner, and she and her daughter in law, laura bush, understood the link between education, poverty and the ability to move upward mobility in this country. And so they both were firmly committed to civil rights, to equal rights, especially when it came to education. And Barbara Bushs literacy programs were an excellent example, especially for adult literacy, to help people move on and try to improve their lives. In 2021, the Barbara Bush Foundation for family literacy began a new program that was for antibias and antiracist educational resources. So even after her death, her foundation, her legacy lives on and continues that work. Laura bush, after she graduated from college, chose to work in depressed areas of both houston and dallas and she wanted to do something to improve the lives of some of the children in these areas. And she believed education was a way of doing it. She also, through literacy programs, was trying to do what she could to equalize some of the Educational Opportunities in this country. She did a special program on the harlem renaissance as a way of really uplifting and all americans the important cultural contributions of africanamericans during that particular period of time. And then finally, we came full circle with Michelle Obama when a descendant of enslaved workers became first lady of the united states. And as i said, she made us aware of what her history was and how different it was from anyone else who had worked in the white house. And that White House Historical Association Project is indirectly one of the legacies of the statements that she made. But she also used her speeches and her platform as first lady, as Lady Bird Johnson and others used their platform to encourage bridge young africanamericans students to do their best to reach out for goals that they think maybe were not attainable. Just as she had been the beneficiary of a lot of Lyndon Johnsons legislation, but had also faced Party Discipline in nation and discouragement about what she was capable of doing. And she showed that it can be done at a 60th anniversary. Celebrate in topeka, kansas, for the brown v board of education decision. She gave a speech to the three public high schools in topeka and she reminded them of how much work there still was to be done. That brown v board was not the end. It was simply the beginning of what needed to be done, not just for equality in education, but throughout the country. So this is the past and where some of our first ladies fit in, some of whom contributed to institutional racism in this country, but others who brought us forward and made the cause for civil rights and equal rights for all people in this country. So thank you again for joining us, and im looking forward to your questions as. Thank you so much for that presentation. Dr. Carlin. Im sure weve all heard a lot and learned a lot. I can see that our chat is already very active with some reactions to the information that you shared with us. So now im going to move us into the q a portion of our program this evening before i start asking the questions, i want to remind our wonderful viewers that if you have a question for dr. Carlin, you can feel free to ask it using the q a box at the bottom of your screen. All that we ask is that when you type your question, you also include where youre tuning in from. All righty. So to get us started, we have a question from janice in saginaw hills, ohio. Janice writes, jackie kennedy, family included emma bouvier, drexel and katharine drexel, the latter a saint in the Roman Catholic church, and cofounder of historically black colleges and universities and schools for native americans. But there has been minimal acknowledgment of such great women by jackies descendants or by the kennedy library. Do you have any idea why jackie would want to minimize those two great women . I have no idea. In fact, this is the first i heard about it. And whats interesting, i was just reviewing and editing a book chapter on jackie anita mcbride, whos a member of the board of the White House Historical association. Nancy keegan smith, who worked at the National Archives for many years. And i have a textbook and i was looking at that chapter today and its not included. So we may need to have to go back and find that, but thank you for letting me know about that. I was not aware. And ill just say to janice included a link to a Washington Post article related to that. So well put that to be sure for possible future inclusion in the textbooks. I think this is a good example, samantha, and everyone of how we havent spread the word about a lot of what first ladies have done in some of their history and their family and how that impacted what they did. So this is not the only example that were going to hear about. Exactly. Okay. So now we have a question from stephen and stephens asking what role, if any, did pat nixon play in civil rights . Have concerns were more for womens rights . So that is a civil right. Pat was a supporter of that. Right. Pat also was way ahead of the game in terms of americans with disabilities. And she really did a lot at the white house itself to make it accessible. So there were areas other than the more traditional ways we think about civil rights. She was really more in terms of equal rights and that was where pat nixon fit in. Excellent. Thank you. All right. Now weve got a question from tiffany from atlanta. Tiffany asks, could betty fords dedication to womens rights also be considered civil rights activism . Yes, it could. In fact, i you know, i think the Hillary Clinton speech i know somebody had written the question about why not hillary . Know we really associate hillary with human rights in a broader sense. Also, Eleanor Roosevelt, because of the work she did at the un with chairing the committee that created un declaration of human rights. And so, yes, its definitely a civil right. And and so those women need to be included. I have 20 minutes. And that was one of the frustrating things about this presentation is i could at least talk for an hour because i knew we were going to leave some people out. But im glad youre bringing them up so that we can talk about them. I also want to mention a correction and somebody noted Booker T Washington did not visit the white house with the hoovers. I had made a note to myself when i was looking at my notes about Booker T Washington connection with the hoovers because when mrs. The priest was invited and then when the president of the historically black colleges were invited, it was the First Time Since Booker T Washington, 20 some years before, had dined with teddy roosevelt. And that was my little note. And i saw it out of the corner of my eye and inflated the times range. So thank you to whomever pointed that out so that i could correct my little note. Thats great. Thank you for clarifying and to your earlier mistakes. Exactly. And to your earlier point, too, about, you know, having a time frame for this presentation means that some folks get left out. We do have some people asking, you know, what about pat nixon, betty ford, rosalynn carter, nancy reagan. So as youve noted, you know, so many people have had an impact and have done great work through their work as first ladies in the white house. But we dont have the time to address every detail or all of them this evening. Already. Our next question is from debbie in clarksville, tennessee. Debbies asking if Eleanor Roosevelt ever rejoined the djr after she resigned her membership. No, she didnt. And i really encourage everyone to go online to youtube and look at that. Marian anderson and performance. I cant watch it. Know how many times ive watched it without tears in my eyes. And there are several versions of it. It was just a phenomenal thing. And and it showed a lot about eleanor and the way she approached things as first lady, because her first idea was, well just invite her to the white house and then she said to herself, that wasnt enough. So she went behind the scenes with secretary of interior ickes and created this whole incredible event at the lincoln memorial. But, you know, she kept her self out of the public eye with that and was behind the scenes. So now we have a question from chandler in virginia. Chandler writes, ellen wilson and Woodrow Wilson had very different views on racial equality. Do we know if that caused any friction between them . Could you repeat that . There was something that popped up and i took a look at it. No, absolutely. So ellen wilson and Woodrow Wilson had very different views on racial equality. Do we know if that caused any friction between them . I dont know about friction now. Ellen, as i said, was not the most progressive on this issue. But her ally, bill, was one area where she did do something. She was a southerner. She had come from a family that historically had enslaved other humans. And we know woodrow was not progressive on this issue. So other than that particular bill, she didnt speak out on anything else. And to and from what we know, she really did approach him and tried to get him to do anything, especially about the jim crow laws. She remained silent and didnt talk about that. Okay. So we have a question from genevieve, whos actually a peace corps volunteer in belize. Thanks for tuning in, genevieve. How many first ladies besides mrs. Obama have ancestry that includes africanamerican heritage, to your knowledge, no one else to my knowledge. Dont. Michelle obama was such a you know, like i said, huge leap forward from where we were before. But not only was she the first who was a descendant of enslaved people in the south, but some of her ancestors were white. And so shes also an example of this history of how africanamerican women were sexually abused by their owners and had babies and she descendent from one of those individuals. So she she also has white ancestry. Hey, next, we have a question from john, whos asking if you could comment on the views of Ida Sexton Mckinley toward her africanamerican neighbors and servants at the white house that her neighbors that i cant do i havent done as Much Research on ida mckinley on this particular issue. But i will dig into that one, too. Excellent. Our next question is from sally in tampa, florida. First lady Hillary Clinton certainly did important work towards human rights for all people, and she noticed shes not mentioned. So i just wanted to provide some space here if she wanted to say anything about first lady Hillary Clinton. Well, you know, Hillary Clinton certainly was a civil rights activist. If you if you go back to even her early days, right outside of Law School Work she did in law school as a student with internship projects. She also, you know, worked for Marian Wright edelman childrens defense fund, everything that she did in terms of Childrens Health care was looking for equality. But as i said, i had a limited amount of time and everyone seems to know a lot more about hillary and what shes done. And i wanted to really highlight some of the women who people dont know as much about, who we havent studied or who are not our contemporary. So that was why made some of the choices i made within the time limitations. But hillary is certainly an individual who supported civil rights and human rights in many arenas. Thank you. Our next question is from bernice in las vegas. They ask, what was the name of the enslaved person that Abigail Adams worked with . His name was james. And thats all we know. That was how she referred to him in the letters. And this was something that we discovered in looking at her letters was this concern that she had, that she was an outspoken abolitionist. And and this is why when John Quincy Adams hired enslaved workers and when he hired them, those workers did not get the pay any any enslaved workers who were hired to work on the white house at the white house. The money went to their owners. And so for her son to have done that was really kind of a shocking revelation to me when i discovered that. And theres a reason why these families brought their enslaved workers. And that was simply because Congress Never gave them enough money to run for the president s Mansion House in new york and philadelphia. And that was part of why the washingtons brought. They also hired individuals, both whites, to work in their executive houses. But they didnt have enough money. And and and sarah polk was another good example where she sort of made a Campaign Promise that if she were first lady, she would stay within her budget. And part of the way she she did that was she got rid of ten staff members, the white house, and replaced them all with her enslaved servants. And that was how she budget. So congress has never done enough and. This is sort of the whole history of first ladies and the white house in the frustrations they had of running this house with the funds that they got from congress. So this is why these families did this. Plus, they were also individuals who they trusted, who they had worked with for many years. And and that was a Comfort Level for them. Thank you. Sort of in the same vein, we have a question from amy from nebraska. Can you elaborate on John Quincy Adams hiring enslaved people to work for him and for the white house . Well, that was one of the things i just mentioned is that it was a practicality issue. They had limited funding. This was far less expensive than than hiring a white worker who would have to be paid a living wage. I mean, its kind of an early issue of a big wage issue. An early example. Absolutely. So weve got some follow up there. It sounds like folks are wondering more specific about John Quincy Adams, given, you know, the feelings of his parents and things like that. Allen is asking could it be that if John Quincy Adams had paid enslaved people, he would have faced more political controversy . Or did he respects the craftsmen ship of the enslaved people he hired . That i dont know. But, you know, once again, i would have to dig through some of the adams papers so that i think the thing thats interesting about him more than anything else was just the fact that it was such a departure from his family and also from later when, if you ever saw the movie on a side, you know, John Quincy Adams was involved with that slave ship situation and so it was it was really a contradiction for him in terms of his family background. But some of this became a practicality issue for some of these president ial families. All right. I cant believe it. But were almost up at our time. So im going to ask you one final question here. So this question is from melissa and i assume you maybe dont know the answer, but im wondering if you can offer us some ponderings on the research youve done. So melissa asks, are they going to speak with mr. Emhoff about how he feels being the first vp spouse . Thats a gentleman and not a woman. She just notes that it would be really interesting to hear his take the future. So do you have any thoughts about that . Oh, absolutely. I think any of us who study first ladies, this is a question were always asking. What about the first . Yeah the first male spouse of a president . And its going to happen, i hope, in my lifetime. But with with doug emhoff in the second position, i think youve seen hes doing some things similarly, but he also took the same position that dr. Biden took when she was second lady. And hes continued to have a career. And i think thats more likely going to be the case in the future with with a spouse, with a male spouse. Is that that spouse will find a way to do something that doesnt create any conflicts of interest. And he you know, he does do some things with dr. Biden, but just as she did some events with Michelle Obama. So he has, you know, some of that same background in terms of fulfilling that role and doing the ceremonial types of things and making speeches as Vice President s husband. So i think hes a