Transcripts For CSPAN3 State Lawmakers Testify On Impact Of Roe V. Wade Overturned 20220728

We are holding todays hearing at a moment when women across america are feeling sorrow, anger, and disbelief. 19 days ago a rightwing majority on the Supreme Court fulfilled the Republican Guard partys decades long goal of overturning roe v. Wade and stripped away a constitutional right relied on by generations of american women. The goal of these rightwing extremists is clear, to control the bodies of women, girls, and any person who can become pregnant. To be even more clear, the Dobbs Decision means the government can now order people to stay pregnant, on pain of criminal punishment. Many of us have been warning about this day four years as states have steadily chipped away at the right to abortion. In 2019, my first hearing as chair of this committee, we examine how draconian restrictions in states like missouri were closing down abortion providers. Last year we held a hearing on the sixweek abortion ban in texas, which turns private citizens into Bounty Hunters, encouraging them to sue anyone they suspect of having someone in need of an abortion. Now, the Supreme Court has bulldozed straight through our rights with this extreme, dangerous, and undemocratic decision. We are already seeing the disastrous effects of this as states begin criminalizing abortion. Abortion is now illegal in 16 states, and, antiabortion legislators in other states are rushing to follow suits. Threatening to make abortion inaccessible for an estimated 33 million women across the country. Doctors and patients in these states are afraid and confused about what this radical decision means for providing and receiving Critical Health care. Women are worried about having miscarriages or pregnancy complications for fear they may be investigated or prosecuted for getting the care they desperately need. Of course, abortion is still illegal in many states, including my home state of new york, thanks to democrats fighting for womens rights. But, for people who cannot afford to take time off of work and pay for childcare and travel expenses, going to another state to receive abortion care is simply not an option. We know that abortion bans and restrictions will disproportionately harm people of color, people with low incomes, young people, and lgbtq plus individuals undocumented people, and so many more. Today, we are going to hear about the terrible consequences of restricting and criminalizing abortion. We will hear from those who are personally impacted and from state legislators who are on the front lines of defending access to abortion. Todays hearing is especially important because republicans are not going to stop with jobs, they are trying to impose a national ban on abortion. They damage that would cause is inconceivable. As we hear about the impact of the loss of abortion rights today, i would like to ask those watching or hearing a simple question. Is this the country we want for our children . We want a country where our children have fewer rights than we do . Or, do we want to live in a country that respects and trust women to make the best choices for themselves and their families . The answer is clear, americans overwhelmingly support the right to an abortion. Democrats in congress, we hear you, we stand with you, and we are fighting for you. The house has already passed a Womens Health protection act, which would establish a statutory right to abortion, and, this right we will pass an updated version that directly responds to dobbs. Next, the senate must act. We should not let filibuster rules stand in the way. We also need to expand access to medication abortion. Congresswoman pluck pressley and i have worked with the Biden Administration to eliminate barriers to this safe, fda approved method of ending and early pregnancy. I have also introduced legislation to crack down on anti abortion disinformation and to protect access to contraception at the pharmacy counter. President biden signed an executive order last week to protect and expand access to abortion, and, all rape or Reproductive Health care. We stand ready to support his efforts. Democrats are committed to restoring abortion rights and access that the rightwing Supreme Court has taken away. We will never stop fighting until it is restored, i now yield to Ranking Member thank you, madam chair, we are having a hearing today on a Supreme Court decision, a decision that came at the end of a legal process. To be clear, the Dobbs Decision did not outlaw abortion. Instead, it return the issue to the states, for the people to decide. It democrats charge the Supreme Court is somehow destroying our democracy by strengthening our democratic process. They have spent the last two months attacking the legitimacy of the court, even seeking to intimidate, through thinly veiled threats of violence, all because the left did not get what they want. I would ask that we play the video now, plays. Down with the Supreme Court we will defy them [inaudible] i want to tell you, i want to tell you kavanaugh, you have released the whirlwind you will pay the price a man was arrested overnight near the home of Supreme Court Justice Brett kavanaugh, he was armed with a gun, a knife, and told authorities that he was there to kill the justice. Police discovered to molotov cocktails and a fire sent to the headquarters of wisconsin family action. A Pregnancy Center just blocks away from capitol hill was vandalized overnight. This fire broke out at the pregnancy resource center, we are told there was considerable damage. The Group Calling itself janes revenge, promising more violence targeting antiabortion groups nationwide. In todays hearing, democrats will fearmonger, following the advice of their allies in the media and jumping on the bandwagon. The New York Times fault a piece saying that democrats need to lean into the politics of fear, and quote, when it comes to abortion. To the Mainstream Media, the politics of fear includes ignoring violence against those who opposed the preferred policies. Just a few weeks ago a man traveled across the country to try to assassinate a sitting Supreme Court justice. The Mainstream Media buried the news because doing so would somehow show their support for Justice Kavanaugh. Or, even the Supreme Court. Todays hearing continues the patterns of a democrat throughout this entire congress. In hearing after hearing the sought to draw attention away from the failures of the Biden Administration. The failures that have led to skyrocketing administration, a frightening shortage of baby formula, and the worst border crisis in the history of america. While democrats refused to conduct any meaningful oversight President Biden has put us on a path to destroy america. Unfortunately, democrats followed suit by seeking to destroy our democratic institutions. They are beholden to the radical left, who even the Biden Administration admits is out of touch. They have no respect for process, even though our public relies on process to survive. When process is respected it strengthens our institutions and encourages responsible civic action through the legislative process. When the process is respected, the rule of law is upheld. And, thankfully, the Supreme Court respected process. The constitution begins with we the people of the United States, not be the government or we the nine justices of the Supreme Court. To see the Supreme Court restrain its own powers and return authority to the states and the people should be inspiring. Meanwhile, the American People interested congress to restrain the powers of the executive branch. And toward that end, the congress and our committee has failed. Thats our country struggles under the weight of inflation, skyrocketing Energy Crisis and a southern border, we sat idly by with hearings that offer the American People zero solutions. This committee needs to do better. We must do better. Madam chair, i yield back. Before i introduce our witnesses id like to briefly respond to the Ranking Member. Democrats strongly reject any use of harassment, threats or violence. That is why congress has taken action to protect the members of the Supreme Court, thats why weve urged republicans to join us in condemning the violent attack on the capitol last year. What we do support is americans ability to peacefully stand up for their rights. I believe that is not a democracy if women cannot make decisions about their own health care, including reproductive rights. And we will continue to fight for americans and their rights. And we will never give up. I would like to now introduce our witnesses that we have today. First, we will hear from fifth team a gross graves, chief executive officer of the women s law center. I now recognize representative lawrence to briefly introduce our next witness. Good morning and thank you, madam chair. I have the in pleasure of introducing our own, michigans own state senator, mario make moral. She represents central detroit, she is serving her first term for the 13th state district. Shes an impassioned fighter for the people of michigan, for families and for Reproductive Health. Her voice speaks volumes and i look forward to hearing from her today. I now represent representative johnson, briefly, to introduce our next witness, representative johnson . Thank, you madam chair. This morning, im pleased to introduce state representative rannita shannon. Who is a representative in the Georgia House of representatives since 2017. Where she has represented the 84th district, which includes part of the fourth congressional district, which i represent. Representative shannon is the former Vice President of the Georgia State chapter of the National Organization for women and has long been a champion in the fight for justice, racial equality and reproductive freedom. She is sponsored legislation aiming to defund antiabortion crisis centers. She has successfully led the effort to expand postpartum medicaid coverage and has fought repeatedly against restrictions to abortions in georgia, sharing her own abortion story in the process. In light of the recent Supreme Court decision, we need people to speak out what we all know is right. And state representative shannon, we welcome you to congress to use your voice. Once again. And hold as we strive to take away bottle lee autonomy accountable. Thank you for your testimony today i yield back. Then, we will hear from professor michelle goodwin, the chancellors professor of law at the university of california airline. Please note that professor goodwin has a hard stop at 11 00, which times will be excused. Then, we will hear from erwin mauro holly senior counsel for the Alliance Defending freedom. Finally, we will hear from sara lopez, abortion storyteller at we testify and Youth Program manager at janes due process. The witnesses will be unmuted so we can swear them in. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear the testimony you are about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god . Let the record show that the witnesses answered in the affirmative. Thank, you without objection your written statements will make made part of this record. With that, miss graves, you are recognized for your testimony. Chairman maloney, Ranking Member gohmert and members of the committee, thank you for the invitation to testify today. My name is fatima goss graves and im presidency out the National Womens law center. Im here today because, in a single day millions lost a right, a right they had for nearly 50 years that had been fundamental to our health and our life and our future into the society. That decision in dobbs versus jackson Womens Health organization has already proven to be catastrophic. Within two, weeks 14 states were already without abortion care, now more. People are now told they will be forced to stay pregnant, they will be forced to give birth and they even are now being told they cant leave their state. And we got here in a dizzying fashion. A mix of extreme lawmakers raced to pass more and more outrageous laws, banning abortion, sewing fear and division in their communities along the way. And then, they escalated those tactics after they saw president trumps promise that he would automatically appoint justices to the Supreme Court who would automatically ban abortion and overturn roe. And so, more than two weeks ago we watched with horror as the courts majority put their personal opinions above longstanding rule of law, science and peoples basic needs. I cannot overstate how much legal uncertainty and chaos that the Supreme Court has only shipped with this unsound opinion. Our lives and our systems that are expectations in this country have been built around the idea that abortion is legal. Now, without that bedrock, we face a minefield of vague and evolving and even sometimes conflicting state laws. Employers and schools and city governments, they are all buried under the weight of this explosion. Clinics and health care professionals, they are trying to make sense of this shifting landscape. Patients are confused and they are scared about their rights. And they, as individuals, are forced to navigate an uncertain legal landscape. Many cannot travel, including those who cant afford it or are incarcerated or are maybe undocumented. And those who are able to travel out of state, they are terrified. State lawmakers and missouri are already considering a Bounty Hunter style law to target those who travel out of state for abortion care and those who help them. All of these groups are facing fear of prosecution and harassment and intimidation. And so, to the Committee Members and to anyone who is watching today, i am here to say this is not a drill. Our very democracy and what it means to be an equal participant in our society, and our economy, in our political system is on the brink of demise. Alongside, it things like free and fair elections, interstate travel, freedom to express oneself, safety in public places, the right to protest and, indeed, yes, that fundamental right to privacy. These are principles of our democracy and they are significantly under threat. So, before closing, i want to focus not on those who unleashed this chaos but on those who will be most harmed by it. Those who are suffering now are more likely to be low income, theyre more likely to be women of color, theyre already facing challenges accessing health care in their community, including other basic forms of Health Care Like contraception. They often lack things like job security and paid leave. And they may just be going to college or starting a new career or maybe they are trying to leave an abusive relationship or they could have been assaulted. Whatever their situation, they understand why they need abortion care. And they know it is right for them. And i trust them to make that decision. Thank you. Thank you. Senator mick mauro, you are now recognized for your testimony. Thank, you madam chair Ranking Member and members of the committee and congresswoman lawrence for the very kind interrupt introduction. Id like to start with the story. 2014, were a year into their marriage and elated to be expecting their first child. Throughout their pregnancy, a calm felt wonderful, as healthy as could be. All the regular checkups show that everything was on track. But, at their 20week appointment, everything changed. The doctor came back into the room in the room grew quiet. The diagnosis was fear austria genesis and perfect, a form of skeletal dysplasia preventing the fetus from developing collagen. Simply put, the bones were not developing. My calm and jordan learned that if their future child survived, being carried a term, they would likely live a very short life, suffering every moment in great pain. The diagnosis was so severe that a sneeze could break a rib. Her husband, jordan, told me that he didnt think there in the category of needing an abortion and all the stigma that went along with it. We needed emergency medical care. He said, that given their situation, he had no doubt that this has would recognize the urgency and get them the care that they needed. But he was wrong. The hospital made it difficult to schedule appointments. No one seems to want to call them back despite making the heartbreaking and selfless decision to terminate their pregnancy, a pregnant say they wanted so badly, in the moment they needed the help the most it felt like nobody would help them. Through a tireless effort calling every family friend they could think of, they finally found a way to the university of michigan Womens Hospital where a team of experts would perform the procedure. They recognize that most do not have time and resources that they need they do. And how lucky they were to know people in medicine throughout the state and be able to take time off of work. The abortion took place in november, the following august she was pregnant. Zoe is now five and their second daughter was born 18 months later. They share their story with me, a story not different from any other women and families facing this decision. Without access to the care that they needed she would not have the fifth wonderful family and two healthy daughter she has now. Without that abortion, the family would never have been able to conceive again. I previously spoke oneonone with one of my colleagues who is in favor of legislation further restricting abortion in our state. She listens to their story and asked me how frequently the situation like theres happens. She said to me, quote, this feels so difficult to legislate because every situation is different. Honorable members of congress, that response is exactly right. Every situation is different, every individual and family seeking abortion care does so for different reasons. Sometimes Birth Control fails, sometimes a family has children and knows they cannot support anymore. For so many others getting pregnant is hard, and staying pregnant safely and healthily is even harder. And, in the ruling overturning the protections previously enshrined in roe v. Wade, michigan now has a long dormant 1931 law on our books that makes providing a abortion a felony with no exception for age, rape, and incest. The way the language is written the attorney general has said that that can include self manage medication abortion. Meaning that not only would doctors and medical professionals be sent to jail but so would women and girls, they are women reaching out afraid to even try to get pregnant, knowing their higher risk of complicated pregnancy and devastated to think of what would happen if they do not go exactly right. Constituents trying one round of ivf deeply to start a family, not knowing if ivf will still be legal, most terrified they will never be able to. I had a constituent terrified she would already survived an Ectopic Pregnancy because she had access to an abortion. She asked me what would happen if it happens again. At this point, abortion is still illegal in michigan because a preliminary injunction blocking the enforcement of the 1931 law. Some of our own colleagues are seeking to intervene and overturn the injunction forcing the 1931 law into effect. Every situation is different and the impacts on the ground in michigan are already and will continue to be devastating. I thank you, madam chair, and members of the committee for allowing me to testify today. I implore you to consider the great harm that this Supreme Court ruling will have throughout more than half a states nationwide. And, it is a necessary work to ensure that every individual has access to safe, medical care that they and their doctors determined they need. Thank you, now representative shannon, you are now recognized for your testimony. Thank you, honorable chair maloney, for inviting me to address your committee today on behalf of georgians. 20 years ago i had an abortion and faced significant, unnecessary burdens and trying to do so. Sadly, over the last 20 years barriers to accessing abortion care have only increased, exacerbating an Ongoing Public Health crisis designed by more journal deaths, increasing poverty and greater inequality overall. The decision will amount to structural violence for many communities. But, most egregiously for black, brown, Indigenous People of color and people with disabilities. Lgbtq people and People Living at the intersection of these identities, who have already sustained centuries of oppression and lack of access to reproductive freedom. Since the assumption of America Black women have been battling for a bodily autonomy. Resisting forced birth during our enslavement and involuntary sterilization into the 70s. Today access to abortion in georgia depends on whether not you have the resources to overcome economic, institutional, and legal barriers restricting access to care. For the National Partnership of women and families organization, georgia has 2. 5 million women of reproductive age. Almost half of them are economically insecure. Having a child has implications for ones education, earnings, and economic security. And, is an essential aspect of planning for ones future. It shoeless is an expert in our unique life situations. Once a person decides whether or not you carry a pregnancy, regardless of the reason, no one should stand in the way of their decision. They should have access to Quality Health care, dignity, and free from government interference or judgment. As a lawmaker in georgia, i have witnessed the many barriers that exist to access Reproductive Health care. This is true whether you are trying to carry a healthy pregnancy or access abortions. To be clear, while being no internationally too many as being resource rich. The Atlanta Metro area does not reflect the majority of georgia, which is rural and lacks access to many of the resources atlanta has. Over half of georgias 159 counties do not have access to it ob gyn. Georgia continues to encased in Maternal Mortality with black women being 3 to 4 times more likely to die than their white counterparts. Forcing a person to carry and unwanted or medically dangerous pregnancy increases the chance of death of the pregnant person. Increases future infertility and leads to Poor Health Outcomes unnecessarily. To put it bluntly, abortions health care, as it is commonly necessary to use to resolve miscarriages, ectopic pregnancies, and Dangerous Health conditions. But, there are many areas of the state where pregnant people must travel hours to receive any of this emergency care, thereby increasing the chance of maternal death. This presents more barriers to access and care as georges infrastructure and broadband is sorely lacking for todays needs. Georgia does not have a robust trans assistant, it is still the case in most of georgia that if you do not have access to a car you will not be able to access care of any kind. Our lack of broadband infrastructure in parts of the state make it hard for many georgians to identify telemedicine. Increasing barriers, georgia has some of the lowest legal wages in the country. Georgia state minimum wage is effectively a racist carve out allowing agricultural and Domestic Workers to be legally paid 5. 25 per hour. There is two industries almost exclusively and play black and brown workers, many georgians find affording in a basic needs to be very much out of reach. To be clear, these challenges in georgia ourselfable, but they are the result of conservativeled government equaling a lack of investments in georgians. That has led to a harsh reality for many. Poor leadership persist because of rampant Voter Suppression targeting georgians who are already struggling the most. All of these factors have made accessing abortion and Reproductive Health care challenging for many. Georgia has less than ten clinics statewide performing abortions, most of the work is being done by independent clinics with limited staff and financial resources. Not well funded, large corporations like planned parenthood. After texas implemented senate bill eight, abortion providers across the region say theyre struggling to accommodate the surge of out of state patients, as texas is the nations second most populous state. Since the decision, some clinics have decided to close, anticipating that house bill 7 41 could go into effect any day now and outlaw abortion in georgia. If abortion is outlawed in georgia, many will not have the resources to get care out of state. To be ability to access Reproductive Health care should not be determined by a state a person lives in. Having a patchwork of reproductive freedom across the country is detrimental to individuals and families. Since they Dobbs Decisions, providers in georgia have seen two patterns emerge. First, they have been overwhelmed by out of state patients as states rush to ban abortions. A provider atlanta referred 100 patients, the second is patients are terminating earlier and earlier in pregnancy, feeling pressure to be decisive before losing access to abortion altogether. The latest decision has only exacerbated a dire lack of access to care. Abortion rights should have never been left up to the courts. We Must Immediately codify complete reproductive freedom in law and ensure that everyone can thrive with dignity. Thank, you madam chair. The gentlelady yields back, thank you, professor goodwin, you are now recognized, professor goodwin. Committee chairwoman maloney, Ranking Member palmer, and distinguished members of the house committee, thank you for inviting me to participate in todays hearing on the impact of this on abortion rights and the United States. I joined my fellow Witnesses Today to explain the dire consequences of the current reproductive landscape in the United States in light of the Supreme Courts decision, that includes the horrifically high rate of mortality, chilling Racial Disparities in rates of death during pregnancy. The great incidents of punishment against girls and women in antiabortion states and the 13th and 14th amendment and pathways forward. My name is michelle goodwin, i am a professor at the university of california and a senior lecturer at harvard medical school. My comments today it will focus on the 13th and 14th amendment and the comments that have been shared go into greater detail across all of these periods. Reproductive servitude and let was a critical part of the 13th and 14th amendment. If forced reproduction was clean. The overturning of roe v. Wade reveals a Supreme Court rating of the amendments that abolished slavery, then guaranteed all people equal protection under the law. It leaves the erasure of black women from the constitution. Mandated, forced, or me and say pregnancy actually contravene enumerated rights in the constitution. Mainly the 13th amendment prohibition against involuntary servitude, and, protection of bodily autonomy. As well as the defense of privacy and freedom. The Supreme Court demonstrates the lack of opportunistic interpretation of this and the legal history, which ignores the 13th and 14th amendments. Especially as related to black womens bodily autonomy, liberty, and privacy, which extended beyond labor in cotton fields to shielding from rape and forced reproduction. So, this was inflicted on black women during slavery, especially sexual violations in forced pregnancy has cultural and legal memory. They have been wiped from those memories, they do matter, especially as Justice Alito and those in the majority try to overturn the originalism. Overturning the right to the abortion shows the courts indefensible disregard for the lives of pregnant patients, talking about consequences a pregnancy from gestational diabetes to Ectopic Pregnancy and death. State mandated pregnancy will exacerbate already health and dignity, especially in places with horrific records of Maternal Mortality and mobility. And, in many of these states there have been an interrupted patterns of lawmaking and discrimination that harm the interests of black women and children, only countered by necessary federal enactment, review, and protection. I understand the gravity of what is it state one only needs to look at this prime courts history. In 2016 Disappointing Court noted that women are 14 times more likely to die by carrying a pregnancy to turn then by having an abortion. United states bears the chilling distinguishing of being the most dangerous place in the industrialized world to give birth, ranking 55th overall in the world. Disproportionately, those who are suffering most are poor women, especially black and brown women, black women are over three times as likely to die by carrying a pregnancy to term than their white counterparts. And, in mississippi a black womens 118 times more likely to die by carrying a pregnancy to term than by having an abortion. And, i will create that, a black woman in mississippi is 119 times more likely to die by carrying a pregnancy to term than by having an abortion in that state. According to the mississippi Maternal Mortality report, black women accounted for over 80 of pregnancy related cardiac deaths in that state. When we consider the risks that are at hand, and, many of them have been talked about. Criminal punishment, civil punishment, the erosion of privacy protections which Justice Thomas called for in this opinion. One cannot dress that when the Supreme Court says that there are guardrails with contraception, marriage, and more, that that will be respected or protected. I appreciate the opportunity to testify before you today, thank you so very much. Thank you, and, miss halle, you are now recognized for your testimony. Good morning, chairman woman maloney, Ranking Member comer, and members of the committee. I am senior counsel for Alliance Defending freedom. The Supreme Courts decision and dobbs corrects a 50yearlong, one that resulted in the death of over 60 million unborn children. Roe v. Wade was premised on a greatest legal errors and the victory is a victory for life and the American People. Rotated us in our ability to promote good policy, jobs are our opportunity to reaffirm motherhood and, in so doing, to empower women. Roe was terrible constitutional law, it fabricated a constitutional right from thin air and scholars across the political spectrum believe the case was wrongly decided. Row took from the American People the ability to protect unborn lives, in an exercise of raw judicial power. As a result of row, the United States has been an extreme outlier in abortion law. Being one of only a few countries, countries like china, and north korea, to allow elective abortion for any reason up until the moment before birth. Tragically, roe was wrong about women as it was about the constitution, it seven authors not lamented that motherhood focused upon women a bleak and distressful future, but, moms across the country know that is an inadequate description of what we do and who we are. With dobbs, americans begin to undo the damage of that devastating lie. On behalf of Alliance Defending freedom i had the privilege of serving as counsel to mississippi and dobbs, my daughter was about six months old when i was asked to help and it is not easy to travel with a baby. My job allowed me to take her along, encouraged it. Something we should see far more of today. Abigail was a tiny but tangible reminder of why got matter, because every life is unique and valuable. While being a parents heart and immensely more difficult for Single Parents without community support, moms across the country a test that it is worth it. And, for women theyre reluctant to parent there is hope. At any given time 1 million families are enthusiastically waiting to adopt. There is no such thing as a unwanted child. In another lie to the American People, roe told women that their baby is merely a potential life. But, Scientific Evidence establishes that life begins at conception. At just six weeks, unborn babies hearts begin to be. At eight weeks they have fingers and toes, and at ten weeks their unique fingerprints form. Yeah, without a hint of irony pro abortion activists positive that the abortion of roe treats women as less than full human abortion that treats babies, including female babies, as mere objects. Even while science establishes that they are fully alive and fully human, no matter how tiny they are. The truth is that roe is not a pro women opinion that sun imagine. In the patriarchal passage that the elect would forget, roe gave a womans doctor the ability to choose abortion. As the late Justice Ruth Bader ginsburg explained, it was focused on a doctors permission to practice his a profession as he thinks past. She says, the picture i got from roe was tall doctor and little woman eating his advice and care. Abortion is a horribly inadequate solution to the real problems that many women face. It often result in bigger risk of death and illness, many women are of sure of their decision and a majority go on to suffer emotional and mental harm. Additionally, as surveys show that women who report they would have chosen life if they had more support. Many companies today are eager to pay for women to end their pregnancies, but, how many of them are offering to pay for the child . For diapers, childcare, or for the flexible functions . Dobbs gives women a voice and a vote, it turns the question to the people. It presents an opportunity for them to have a culture that values families, mothers, and women, thankfully we are already seeing state and private groups step up to surround expecting moms with a carrying community and provide families with diapers, closing, housing, and educational opportunities, job training, and medical, emotional, and post abortive care. It has been three weeks since dobbs, we still have questions, but, one thing we know, a post roe america is a hopeful one. It is important we can recognize the inherent dignity and worth of every life, and empower women by providing them with the resources they need to flourish their pregnancy and beyond. Thank you, miss lopez, you are now recognized for your testimony. Good morning, members of the committee, my name is sarah lopez. I am a texan, a testify abortion storyteller, and the Youth Program member at janes due process. We help young people in the axis in texas to abortion. One Supreme Court remove the constitutional right to abortion, clinics, abortion funds, and advocates when it surprised but it did not make the news less heartwrenching. Countless clinics had to tell patients in the waiting room that they could no longer help them. Abortion funds like james due process paused services and are unsure what, if any support we can offer. We are still doing everything we can in accordance with the law to help young people. This did not happen overnight, texas lawmakers chipped away at our rights against the outcry and will of the people it at each legislative session. Even before the ruling in texas, the senate banned abortions past six weeks, forcing people to remain pregnant against their will. Texas and other states that have banned abortion are ill equipped to care for families, crisis Pregnancy Centers, which are unlicensed, fake clinics designed to trick people out of having abortions, outnumber abortion clinics 3 to 1. In texas they receive 50 million a year, diverting money from the temporary assistance from the familys program. They did not help venerable families who need food, and childcare. This is battling it for texas families but wasted on misinformation allies, i know because ive seen it in action in many of the people ive supported. I had an abortion almost six years old go as i graduated college. I was working in a restaurant, scraping by on 2 15 an hour plus steps, it was so little i could barely afford my 250 dollar a month read. When i found out i was pregnant i knew i needed an abortion. But, the statement made me feel like what was happening to me was beyond my control and also my fault. As long as i remember texass had dozen restrictions making accessing care much more complex than it should be. The government mandated delay turned into a twoweek delay, as a Sexual Assault survivor, they trans reginald ultrasound i had to receive was torture. All of this was medically unnecessary and acted in hope that would give up my efforts to receive an abortion. However, after my abortion i felt immediate relief. I also knew how lucky i was, the independent clinic i went to, austin Womens Health center, was nearby and the nurse held my hand during a procedure to make sure i was comfortable. My boyfriend, glam still, with drumming to my abortions and paid for my appointment. My best friend help me and my art in her arms and reassured me i did not do anything wrong. Later, i learned there is an ecosystem of fierce advocates of abortion funds who do everything they can to make sure that people are still able to have a dignified and supportive experience despite the many obstacles they face. We have helped countless people who did not have a support system of reliable childcare, or any method of transportation. Being forced to leave the state or city you live in takes the motion of toll on people, without basic necessary as with reliable access, a photo i. D. , or bank account, it can feel impossible. But, clinics, washing funds, and support organizations are the clinics that moved mountains to make sure people get the care they need. I never dreamed i wouldve been able to tell people about my abortion, let alone sit before you here today and talk about it. To some extent, i wish i did not have to talk about something so personal in this setting. I hope that by being here today, people who currently nate abortions know they are not alone. We deserve better, this is about our right to self determination. It is about centering pleasure and the right to reproductive justice. It is about not leaving people behind, it is about fighting back against the surveillance and criminalization of pregnancy outcomes. Everyone should have access to a full range of Reproductive Health care, that includes abortion. As i close, i want to be clear, this is another attempt by lawmakers to eradicate our autonomy and sense of self. But, what these same lawmakers do not understand is that no one, no matter how much power you hold, well ever be able to dissolve our community bonds, our capacity to maintain hope and its so much despair, and, our unrelenting love for our people. As we say and testify, everyone has someone who they love who has had an abortion. As you reflect on my testimony i hope you think about those who you left. Thank you for the opportunity to share my stories with you here today. Thank you, thank all of the panelists, we tried to get abortion providers to come in and tell their stories, some of whom have experienced violence. But, they were afraid to come in. I now recognize myself for five minutes for questions. For years, rightwing lawmakers across the country have been pushing socalled trigger bands that are designed to ban abortion immediately if profile. Now that the Supreme Court has thrown out the constitutional right to abortion in 16 states, they have banned or nearly band of martians and many more will follow. We have a map that shows where abortion is banned. It will soon be banned, or it is being seriously considered. Almost half of the states, these bands are stripping away the rights from millions of americans across our country. Representative shannon, i understand that any day now georgia could implement a sixweek ban on abortion. What would the impact be on the people you represent . Thank you, madam chair, for the question. As i mentioned in my testimony, yes, most of georgia does not have the resources that at the Atlanta Metro area has, and, georgia ranks high consistently for Maternal Mortality deaths. If abortion were outlawed, simply put, we will be outlying access to care. Which is something that would only exacerbate Maternal Mortality, this would be a tremendous issue for the majority of the state. I have mentioned how lower wages are in the state and the many places that have become unaffordable. And, so, this would be a tremendous burden that would amount to structural violence for many communities around the state. Thank you, michigan has a lot on the books from nearly a century ago that would ban abortion immediately. This law has been put on hold by Russian Court while it is litigated. Senator, what does this uncertainty mean to the people in michigan who need abortions and Reproductive Health care right now . And, why are you worried about in the future . Madam chair, the implications are devastating, as you mentioned this law was written nearly a century ago but the original version was written in 1847. And, it provides no exception for rape or incest, or age. It is vague enough to potentially include medication abortion and even contraception, it is dire. Right now there is a preliminary injunction, meaning that abortion is still legal. But, our public and colleagues are spending almost 1 million taxpayer dollars to challenge that injunction, to forest in 1941 law into effect immediately. Arguing that such legislation should be decided in the legislature. When in fact, my democratic colleagues and i had not only introduced bills to repeal it but to replace it with the Reproductive Health act, which would codify Abortion Access and reproductive rights. The legislature refuses to take those bills up, michigan is currently one of the most gerrymandered states in the country. It is literally minority role at the moment, but, you need to look no further than an effort led by citizens here to have a Petition Initiative to amend our state constitution. And initiative that requires 425,000 signatures to get on the november violet. The Organization Led by planned parenthood and a coalition of women of color collected more than 800,000 signatures, that is about one in ten registered voters in the state of michigan physically found a petition, find, it to get it on the ballot. They turned in the highest number of petition signatures of any petition it issued of in state history. The people are speaking, they are speaking very loudly, they know how devastating this 1931 law will be, if and when it goes to a fact. Thank you, professor goodwin, we know the black women face dramatically higher rates of Maternal Mortality than white women. And, in my own city it is even higher than the national average, unfortunately. It is unacceptable that despite having the highest Maternal Mortality rate, which are now forcing people to remain pregnant against their will. What does the Dobbs Decision mean for those who will be forced to remain pregnant, and, particular to black women . To be forced against their will to remain pregnant . Well, thank you madam chairwoman for that question. This is no hyperbole to say that it is essentially a death sentence, given the data that we already know. About the Supreme Court already knows and has expressed into thousand 16. But their 14 times more likely to die by having to carry the pregnancy to term. That only magnificent states like mississippi, texas, louisiana. The deadliest places and all the industrialized world to be pregnant. This is also data that comes from those very states and their department of health. Its not information thats made up from some left wing radical organization, this is data that is produced in those very red states that showed these alarming rates of death and, essentially, it is a death sentence for those women and also the girls affected. It means we have free states and nonfree states, like we did during the american period of slavery. Thank you. The Supreme Courts decision to overturn roe v. Wade takes us backwards. It is dangerous, as we just heard, and flat wrong. Democrats are dedicated a determined to do everything we can to reverse this and i now yield back. As previously stated at the beginning of the hearing, professor goodwin has a hard stop at 11. Professor goodwin, thank you very much for joining us today. For your testimony. You are excused, thank you. The gentlewoman from north carolina, mrs. Foxx is recognized. Thank, you madam chairman. My questions will be for miss halle. Its holly, i just heard them talk about the being a death sentence for the mother taking the life of the baby. I find that really interesting, that were talking about a hypothetical situation of taking the life of the mother when theyre actually taking the life of a baby. We are living in a brave new world right now, its unbelievable. Miss halle, following the Supreme Courts decision on the dobbs v. Jackson Womens Health organization case, democrat strategist and socalled pundits with the Mainstream Media wanted to a manic frenzy. Every man and characterization in the book was thrown at the Supreme Court, its conservative justices republicans of the entire pro life movement. Headlines we live, in fact, ina constitutional republic. The entire country was swept up by the media as maelstrom of political skulduggery. It was intended to deceive the American People and, more importantly, distract them from the truth. The truth is that the decision in dobbs simply writes a wrong that has lasted for almost half a century. Decisionmaking has returned to the, stays where it belongs and where it shouldve been the entire time. Federalism is finally receiving the due deference that it deserves. Miss halle, in recent years, prochoice advocates have shifted their agenda by stating that abortion is a necessary component of health care. Which is what we just heard. Would you consider taking the life of an unborn Baby Health Care . Absolutely not. Abortion is not health care and in fact, if we look at the statistics from women who have had abortions themselves, 75 of those women say they would have chosen life if circumstances would have been different. Abortion is not health care. So, in your opinion, is the dobbs ruling an attack on womens rights . And did women ever have a constitutional right to take the life of their unborn baby . The Supreme Court opinion, dobbs, cogently explain that there is nothing in the constitutions text or structure or in our nations history that would, in any sense, support a right to an abortion. If you look at our nations history, abortion has been unlawful since the common law. In 1973, when roe v. Wade was decided, that case overturned the prolife laws of nearly every single state. Would you talk a little bit about the Prolife Movement being a pro Woman Movement . Absolutely. As we mentioned of course, babies can be female as well. So, its definitely prowoman in that sense. As, well the Prolife Movement and a. D. Have believes in the inherent dignity and value of every single person. We believe that every person has the right to life and that the prolife community has and will continue to come alongside and empower women. If we talk about Pregnancy Care Centers, theyre not fake centers. And 2019 excuse me, they served 1. 8 5 million families, provided 266 million worth of goods, of car seats, of baby formula, which is surprisingly hard to get. Diapers, things that women really need. They also provide emotional counseling, they provide fatherhood training, housing, educational training. Things that can enable women to survive and thrive. Thank you. As ive said before this Committee Last september, we must Pay Attention to the language thats being used to justify the destruction of human life. Abortion is a deliberate termination of human pregnancy and the destruction of an unborn baby. The term has been patels turn on the Public Square so much in the course of decades at the magnitude of this horrendous act itself has become lost. Its a euphemism, designed to deceive with the goal of dehumanizing the unborn before its life is extinguished. Allow me to deconstruct and accurately defined the euphemism the life the left had switched to using as of late, Womens Health, the destruction of innocent unborn babies. Reproductive freedom, the ability to murder a child out of convenience. Abortion rights, the agency to rob another of life. Prochoice, antilife. Daybyday, the Prolife Movement in america continues to grow but our fight is not over. If we are to close a shameful chapter of murdering the unborn and cosign it to the ash heap of history, we need to clear the lefts linguistic smokescreen from the equation entirely. The facts are on our side and its up to us to correct the record once and for all. We are the ones who will ensure that life always wins. Thank you, madam chairman, i yield back. The gentle lady yields back. The gentlewoman from the district of columbia, miss norton, is now recognized. Thank you, madam chair, for this important hearing. Without the protractions of statehood, the people who i represent, d. C. Residents, our weekly threatened by the Supreme Courts decision to overturn roe v. Wade. Because of the congresses undemocratic control over the nearly 700,000 d. C. Residents. Since 1988, with few exceptions, congress has used its control of the easiest budget to prevent d. C. From using its local funds to cover abortion care for d. C. Residents enrolled in medicaid. When combined ice which prevents federal medicaid funds from data being used for abortion care, there is no possibility for d. C. Residents enrolled in medicaid to use that coverage for abortion care. In 2019, more than 20 of adults in the district were enrolled in medicaid. This goss graves, what impact does it have on women with us and time that abortion coverage is not covered by medicaid . You know, roe v. Wade was always the floor and, for people who have low income, who have medicaid or other federal health insurance, but it has meant is that access to abortion is not meaningful. What were seeing around the country right now, as additional hurdles are in place and people have to travel or seek care out of their community, we are now seeing that terrible situation where people couldnt access care, who had lower incomes, dramatically extended. The additional difference now at the painful criminal penalties that are falling on top of it, so, d. C. Residents already know some of this and we also know its going to get worse. Thank you. Republicans have long expressed an interest in overturning the will of d. C. Residents to ban access to abortion in d. C. They previously tried to ban access to abortion after 20 weeks. I was able to nullify or to overcome that. And they could try to ban access to all abortion, where they to take control of the congress. Governor youngkin in virginia has also pledged to try and restrict Abortion Access in virginia. So, what we have as providers in d. C. , maryland and virginia, these are the states that are aligned together. They serve patients from as far away as texas, florida and georgia. Representative shannon, what would it mean for patients from Southern States if abortion becomes illegal in both d. C. And virginia . Well, as i mentioned before, and i want to correct the record on a few things, abortion absolutelys health care. When you have a miscarriage or an Ectopic Pregnancy, a lot of times, abortion is the way these things are resolved. And so, this is the reason you, see across the world, countries that have more restrictions on reproductive freedom and countries that outlaw abortion, they have higher Maternal Mortality rates. Statistically, you also see that, when folks are allowed to exercise their reproductive freedom, they are able to bring down Maternal Mortality rates in areas. And so, that completely makes a case about whether or not abortions health care. So, again, any attempts to allow abortion, no matter if youre talking about d. C. , georgia, texas or anyplace, its going to create an issue like what we currently have going on a georgia. Where georgia is serving as almost like an abortion hub, where folks are coming from other areas, getting abortions in georgia and that creates a lot of issues for clinics who cannot accommodate the demand. It really just puts care out of reach for many and it boils down to, then, the only people that can actually get the health care they seek are people who have resources. What is important to realize and all of this is that, when a person has made a decision about whether or not to keep a pregnancy, they should be able to get access to care with dignity and without judgment or government interference. Thank you, madam chair. Okay. The gentleman from georgia, mr. Hice, is now recognized. Thank, you madam chair. Im an Ardent Supporter of our constitution and the inalienable rights that are guaranteed therein. Specifically first and foremost among those are the right to live. Without, which none of the others matter, quite frankly. For that reason, ive been in this battle for a long, long time, im extremely pleased with the decision of the Supreme Court and applaud the justices for undoing the irreparable harm done both to women and over 60 million unborn babies of the past 50 years. Lets get to the question of personhood. I believe a lot of the battle, the issue, comes down to this question here. Am i correct in assuming that our witnesses, with the exception of miss hawley, would more or less say that it is your belief that babies do not have certain rights, unborn babies, do not have certain rights such as the right to life . Is that generally accepted . You believe unborn babies do have the right to life . But i believe that viability is different for every pregnancy. No two pregnancies are the same. So, you cant just say across the board at one point any practice he would be viable. Okay. The question, i did ask about viability, its about personhood. Let me ask miss hawley, i will point as a baby become a person . That is a question here. Sorry about that. I believe life begins at conception and scientific fact establishes that. Were no longer live in 1973. If you look at an ultrasound from that period, you really cant see a whole lot. If you look at an ultrasound today, take 15 weeks, which is well before viability, the point in time when the mississippis gestations act apply, you can clearly see your baby move and stretch. She can take up, she can, quite likely, feel pain. There is no question that the baby is both fully alive and fully human. Is there any instance of a woman giving birth to something that is not a human being, a baby . Like a turtle . Or as our first ladies suggested, a breakfast taco. Is there any instance where, anything other than a human being has been born . Its definitely instances where people have stillborn still a person, is it not . If i can finish, i actually think that representative shannons point about viability goes to exactly what you are naming. When the court of this package it did so because that consideration was whether or not the fetus can live outside of the body and the answer was no. Does that mean we should kill people who cant live without insulin . Or other . Listen, this is my time. Oh, i thought you are asking us, i want to have an opportunity to explain. So, its not a question of turtles, im not really sure what it is. What it is a question is its a question of personhood. Thats what im getting to. Theres not an instance that im aware of anyone giving birth anything other than a person. So, if it is a person after birth it, by extension, this a person before birth. I really hope people are watching today, because the question on the table is about abortion for sure. But actually, the conversation you are having is about contraception, its about in vitro fertilization, its about a whole larger set of questions. No, you mischaracterize, im having a clear discussion about abortion and the fact that it is a person. It is a person that were dealing with and that person, after birth, clearly as a person. And therefore, by extension, before birth is also a person. The question comes down to when does a person have the right to life. And when does a person have the right to health care. We can argue all day that abortion is health care, it certainly is not health care to the baby. Health care protects life. And abortion, by definition, destroys life. It is not health care. But if they were talking about a partisan, which we are, were not talking a taco, were talking a person in the womb. Were talking a fetus let me go back. Hawley, you brought up this issue of health care. Lets talk about this issue of health care and the baby. What is the issue involving abortion and health care and the baby . Time has expired, the witness may answer. I think theres a few things on which we need to set the record straight. One, an Ectopic Pregnancy, treatment for that condition ever involves an abortion. If you go to planned parenthoods website, they make clear that treatment for an Ectopic Pregnancy is not an abortion, at least they used to. And other than some scaremongering going on. The same is true of a miscarriage. An abortion is a situation in which a child, as a Supreme Court explain to dobbs, is purposely put to death. It is the intentional destruction of a human being. Neither miscarriages nor medical emergencies nor ectopic pregnancies involve that situation. Gentleladys time is expired. The gentleman from illinois, krishnamoorthi, its recognized for five minutes. Thank, you madam chair, thank you for having this important hearing. Miss lopez, id like to direct your attention to this graphic that i brought here. Basically, it talks about the number of arrests of women for abortion, miscarriage and pregnancy specific crimes in the United States. The 32 years between 1973 and 2005, there were 413 such arrests of the women who had these different procedures. Between 2006 and 2020, so, in 14 years, there were 1331 arrest of women for these procedures. So, in 32 years, we had about 400. And in this exceeding 14 years there was triple that number, namely 1331 such arrests. Now, are you concerned that, in this post roe world that were living in, and all those states where abortions are being banned, that were going to have an increase in the number of arrests of women for such procedures . Thank you for your question. I am absolutely concerned. I dont think its hyperbole to say that, especially in texas, its essentially a case study for what a postroe world has been. Even before sb8, based on the restrictions, but since sb8 we have seen immense fear and grief and isolation from pregnant people who desperately need help and do not have the means of leaving the state or the city they live in to access care. I also think that bans and restrictions on abortion do not actually stop abortions, they just, as we see there, make it more difficult to access care and make the idea of criminalization far more of a reality. Representative shannon, if abortion is made illegal in georgia, are you afraid that women in georgia will be prosecuted and imprisoned for the cake these types of procedures . Worry about that. We do know, that from 19 73 to 2005, the instance of low income and particularly black women were disproportionately criminalized for having miscarriages. What a lot of people dont realize that a lot of the same medications that are used for miscarriage are also used for medication abortion which is typically performed at home. And theres really not a way to determine if someone had a miscarriage or if someone had an abortion. And so what we do know is that our criminal legal system is really good at locking up black and brown folks. And so, im very worried that, when a person has a miscarriage and theyre intimidated by Law Enforcement or they are prosecuted, a very worried that our criminal legal system will likely believe karen but not keisha when she says she has a miscarriage. Miss goss graves, or you are asked a question, what does abortion have to do with health care. My understanding of the situation is that were talking about the health care of the mother. And, in so many instances, to protect the life of the mother, and abortion, unfortunately, its sometimes required. Can you speak about that and how, in that situation, where protecting the life of the mother might lead to the mother in jail . You know, when professor goodwin was here, she said twice a statistic that im still startled by. Which was that black women were 118 times more likely to die from giving birth in mississippi then from abortion. Theyre a lot of health instances that come up. Pregnancy is an inherently risky endeavor. It is the publics not for the, mail for the female. For the pregnant person, for the president carrying a pregnancy it is inherently risky. The idea that there is no mention of the life or the health or the mental wellbeing, either in the Supreme Court majority opinion or in the thats why the majority of americans think its radical and extreme. Let me just ask you this question. These prosecutors, were going to go after all of these women, we know the number of arrests are going to skyrocket very shortly. All those overzealous prosecutors and Law Enforcement are going to go after women. Theyre going to want to get their data, theyre going to try to go after their data which has often been entrusted to big tech, have companies that keep their Sexual Health information and Reproductive Health information. Chairwoman maloney and i have launched an investigation, with regard to protecting the privacy of that information. Could you please comment to me, representative shannon, on the importance of protecting the privacy of that Reproductive Health information . Well, protecting the privacy of Reproductive Health information is not only important but its also important to protect privacy for all Health Care Decisions. Thats why we keep reinforcing that the choice of whether or not to carry pregnancy as a Health Care Decision and it is important that every person in this country experienced the freedom of privacy, to be able to make their own Health Care Decisions with their own processes, without government getting involved. Thank you. Thank, you i yield. The gentleman yields back. A gentleman from wisconsin, mr. Grothman, is recognized. Right. First of all, id like to refer to a letter here that im going to submit to the committee. From a group called family action, wisconsin family action, wisconsin family console. Which i dealt with a lot when as a state legislator. They were attacked with molotov cocktails and madison, wisconsin. The reason i bring it up is not just that they were attacked but the apparent lacks or uncaringness of the Law Enforcement in madison wisconsin. This is a disturbing trend weve seen around the country. We know theres a variety of cities in which riots broke out a couple of years ago, including both in madison and kenosha, wisconsin. Both times, it didnt seem like Law Enforcement would engage the rioters. I think the reason they did is that the political leaders felt, that if you are doing something that was the far left, which sadly runs your party today, we will allow people to physically attack you. Almost kill, you in this case. And we wont do anything about it. But i think its something that should be in the record, i think its something, that perhaps, other congressman on this committee would like to read, to see where were headed as a country. , so id like to ask this letter to be submitted. Without objection. Thank you. Now, i have a few questions here. I know, in wisconsin, abortion was illegal at the time abortion was illegal at the time roe v. Wade went to an effect. In fact, the statute that went into effect was put in place, and i believe, 1849. Either 1848 or 1849. Can you comment on, in our country, the state of laws regarding abortions at the time roe v. Wade went into effect . Miss hawley . So, absolutely. At the time roe v. Wade went into effect in 1973, as i mentioned in my opening set testimony, that judicial decision, again decided by seven male authors, overturned the prolife laws at nearly every single state. If we look back in time to 1868, when the 14th amendment was passed, nearly three quarters of the states criminalized abortion. So, you can look at any point in our nations history and drive some sort of rightwing abortion. In fact, the opposite is true in our country and the states have long protected life. Okay. I believe there, whats, either two or three states in which abortion was illegal in 1973. Is that right . Thats correct, but with significant restrictions. Okay. Next question. At the time, he said this before but i think its something that matters people pondering on as to where we are on morality in this country. The state of ultrasound today, compared to 1973, when almost every state realized that having an abortion, killing that little baby, weve all seen ultrasounds today, was a horrific thing. Can you comment on the change in the stat of ultrasounds between then and now . Absolutely. So, weve had 50 years of scientific advances. Everyone thats attended a pregnancy ultrasound the various points, at six weeks, you have the heartbeat at 8 to 10 weeks. Most of your internal orders for the baby or forming. Now, we even have 3d and for ultrasound satellite estate a babys face, you can determine what it is that going to look like so, much more obvious today that abortion is horrific that it was a 1970. Absolutely. If you look at page two, i believe, of my written testimony, we have an example of an ultrasound in 1973 and one today of 15 weeks. And the differences could not be more stark. Okay. This idea of abortion, particularly even late term abortion in places like north korea, china, vietnam, some of the most repressive countries in the world. We know is going on with the uyghurs there in china. You want to comment in general on the type of countries that would consider it important to legalize abortion . Absolutely. So, we see a regime such as north korea, such as china not just totalitarian, i want to comment on the belief in god. So, i think we see in these countries the idea that life is not precious. That life is not valuable. Again, what do they do to churches in north korea or china . Either our church is valuable in north korea or china. The people there, do the people around the country believe in god . I think they prosecute the church there, sir. Right. Is there a correlation then between countries that allow abortions, late term abortions in particular, and countries that almost a religion would be atheism . Gentlemans time is expired. Briefly answer, briefly. One interesting thing is that, when christiane it was born, the roman culture that could see ended emerge from was one in which it was devastating to young children. Parents had superintendent, writes a child had no right to life. The gentleladys time is expired. We have to keep your timeframe. Mr. Raskin, you are now recognized for five minutes. Thank, you madam chair. Nearly eight in ten americans say that the decision about whether or not to have an abortion should be left to women and their families and their health care providers. 62 of americans say that they support a nationwide law protecting a womans right to choose consistent with roe v. Wade. Including not just the vast majority of democrats but 57 of independents that 47 of republicans, although they dont appear to have much voice in the Republican Caucus today. But theres lots of republicans who agree with us, that this is a choice that belongs to women, girls and their families. That is the vast majority of the American People. Now, we want a nationwide law which caught of roe v. Wade as a womans right to choose, because we believe this is fundamentally a question of freedom, personal freedom and autonomy. They want a nationwide law, which makes it a crime to have an abortion anywhere, in any case, including where women and girls have been raped or are victims of incest. That follows logically, naturally, and honestly from their position which we have heard represented several times today that life begins at conception in every case. How could you allow a woman to have an abortion in the case of rape or incest . That would be murder, that is what they say. Now, miss glass graves i am worried about this. The founder of the pratt Republican Party says a house divided against itself cannot stand, i believe this government cannot endure half slave and half free. Can we endure half free choice south and half theocratic states . Is that going to work with me for america . I am deeply worried, this is the first time in our nations history where the Supreme Court has taken away a individual right in the constitution. A right that two generations of people have come up with. Now you have grandmothers looking at their grandchildren and understanding that they are going to have fewer rights, it cannot stand, it is opening up a range of unprecedented legal issues that i never thought we would be dealing with, whether or not we can travel and leave your state, whether or not you can be surveilled, whether or not you, as a individual are truly free in this country. That is the debate we are having. All right, senator, i want to come to you because in a number of compelled pregnancy states theyre already talking about passing laws to make it a crime for a woman to leave a state. They want to make it a crime for people who enabled them to leave the state, whether theyre in another state or in that state. I have introduced legislation with a couple of colleagues which i hope we will be hearing this week or next week. That allows for the free travel of american citizens among the states for the purposes of obtaining health care in the destination state. Is that something you would think is important in michigan . I do think it is important, i want to take a step back and remind everybody how devastating that is going to be for those who are low income, particularly women of color or girls who do not have the means to travel. To bring it back to an example in michigan, our attorney general says she will not be enforced the law. But, she has also said she will not compel county level prosecutors to do the same. So, not only is there going to be a difference, depending on what state you are able to travel to. But, down to your zip code, whether or not you can get direct access to care, whether or not you get access to physicians who are trained, who do not feel fear. I want to go back to the story that i shared in my testimony. Nicole and jordan shared with me that they learned there were only four physicians in Metro Detroit who had been trained to carry out the procedure that they needed. Almost half of the states population lived in the metro area. That is for physicians for more than 4 million people. We have already seen this chipped away, i agree with you, it is even more local than that. While i appreciate that, miss shannon, finally, the Supreme Court has targeted the constitutional right to privacy with more than a half century a precedent. That is the right to privacy, guarantees women the right to not be sterilized against their will, which is what happened to thousands of women in the last century. Including in virginia. Do you fear that there are governments that are going to, on the one hand stop women from making their own decisions against abortion. The gentlemans time has expired,. Can i briefly answer . Very briefly. Sure, we do not even have to go back years ago to forced sterilization, we had this happen in an immigrant Detention Center in georgia were folks were forcibly sterilized. So, that is a real threat. Okay, thank you, mr. Jordan from ohio is now recognized. Thank you, madam chair, miss hawley is the left trying to intimidate the United States Supreme Court . I think if we look at the evidence after the lake of the Supreme Court in dobbs, absolutely. I would agree with that, i would actually argue it started before the leak. Was it intimidation when the leader, minority leader, currently majority said kavanaugh will face the whirlwind, you are not going to know what hit you . Was that an intimidation tactic . It seems like when a Senate Minority leader stands on the steps of the Supreme Court and calls it to sitting justices by name, i believe that would be interpreted as a threat. Would they introduced legislation 15 months ago to add more justices to the United States Supreme Court, that an effort to intimidate the court . Absolutely. I just came from there, just next door, theyre having it as they speak. Would it hit a concerted effort on the hearing on Justice Thomas and hopped about his wife . Was that a effort to intimidate the court . You have distinguished legal background, is that an effort to intimidate the court . The first time i know of a draft opinion that was leaked. That is correct, it was the first time in opinion had ever been links, there was a few news reports trying to normalize that practice. That is untrue. A Supreme Court opinion has never leaked prior to it being ready to be issued. And, as we saw, subsequent to that, 40 Pregnancy Care Centers have been vandalized and targeted. Unitas jim, Justice Kavanaugh had a murder attempt at his own home. You are ahead of me, i was going to point out, i only had 32 on my own list. This is frightening, 32 crisis Pregnancy Centers and churches since may 3rd, two months and one week, that has all happened. That is a concerted effort to go after prolife people and intimidate a separate and equal branch of government, with the support of these guys. That is how wrong this is, the protest and the attacks that my colleague from wisconsin talked about could have happened, 39 other places around the country. Two months in one week, not to mention an assassination attempt in the first time in American History where we have had an assassination attempt on a sitting justice of the United States Supreme Court. Their whole focus is on intimidating the court, and, they are the ones with the radical position. They are the ones who think you should take the life of an unborn child, you can take the life of an unborn child right up until their birthday. Is that accurate . Well the gentleman yield . My question is for miss halle. Absolutely, i would like to set the record straight, the congressman said the American People support the Womens Health protection act, they do not. Less than 10 of the American Public would support abortion up until birth for any reason. That law federalize is a right to sex and race selective abortion. But it is even worse, miss hawley, it is even worse because we know the former democratic governor of virginia did not want to go right up until the birthday, he wanted it to go after that. That is their position, we are the party that is prolife. We actually believe you should protect unborn children, not do what they want to do. It is even worth for this intimidation effort. We now have the speaker for the house wait for weeks after the Senate Unanimously passed legislation to protect justices families after they left had posted online, here is where justice barretts children go to school, here is where her family warships on sunday morning, after posting that. After posting that, Speaker Pelosi says nothing to worry about, we are going to wait for weeks until we protect the justices. I will let you respond. I think it has gotten even worse, we now have the key agency in the executive branch. The Justice Department, the Justice Department failing to enforce a statute. Which is directly on point, which says, when there are protested justices home with the intention to intimidate them and influence the decision, pending in front of the court. You are supposed to deal with that, we have a Justice Department that refuses to do so. A Justice Department that is now working with the left to intimidate a separate and equal branch of government. Would you agree . Absolutely, we have seen this reign of intimidation, it is not only Supreme Court justices and their families publishing online where they go to church, where their families, including justices with young families reside. Protesters at night is never something you want your children to see. In addition we have this outrageous attack on Pregnancy Care Centers, how we think this helps women in need is beyond me. Thank you so much, thank you for your work in the prolife community and what you do representing freedoms around the country. Madam chair, i yield back. Thank you, the gentlewoman from michigan is recognized for five minutes. Thank you, madam chair, if i may i would like to submit for the record an article about the secretary of state of michigan being targeted for allowing the votes to be counted in michigan. Literally in front of her home, in the dark, as well as recently uplifting what has happened to a colleague representative. A man who wanted to commit crime showed up at her home, shouting and with a weapon, i believe, to kill our colleague. I just want to reiterate the importance of that. Without objection. Thank you so much, madam chair. It is important to understand its happening a long time, especially for women of color in this chamber. Republicans are claiming this is about returning power to the states. But, they have themselves said they want to ban abortion nationwide. Kevin mccarthy himself and steve scalise, as well as mike pence has said it. In fact, every republican in this Committee Supports legislation that would lead to nationwide restrictions on abortions. Many of them support a bill to support prison time on balked doctors to have abortion after six weeks. We need to set the record straight and not let the weather for you. When that i want to go to our michigan senator, mick mauro. One of the things that has been impactful, senator, is the fact that historically we have never seen anything like this. In the state of michigan we have collected over 800,000 signatures to allow to repeal the ban of the 1931 ban on abortion. Is that correct . That is correct, this is a constitutional amendment. The highest number of signatures collected on any initiative in state history. We will give the opportunity to allow our state the opportunity of women getting the right to control her body. Is that correct . That is correct. Do you believe that this chamber would try to attempt to overturn that states right . I do, in both the state level on the federal level. You paint a picture, michigan in 2014 democrats got about 20 of vote statewide. The state senate in the chamber that i served, republicans held 23 of senate states. This is led to an extremist feel it is not in line with a majority of michigan, people who know specifically when polled. 60 of michigan residents support keeping protection in place and we have seen the herculean effort come out in the spell initiative. Yes, ive never seen anything like it ive worked on a minimum wage and a number of other valid initiatives. I would like to take the rest of the time to do something that might be a little bit scary for our republican colleagues. Which is to ask womens opinion. Miss lopez, thank you so much for being here with us today. What struck me listening to your story is just how many state opposed groups, they had all of these obstacles that you could jump her to carry out this personal decision about your own body. And, access to medical procedure. Can you describe, i want you to take some time because i want you to be understood. This is about Human Dignity and so much more. Can you talk about how it made you feel. But, also, the experiences of many folks that might not have the courage to be here because they are so scared of the attacks . Thank you so much, i guess i can start by saying that taxes are caused dozens of restrictions, had dozens of restrictions already in place prior to dobbs, prior to s v eight. And, and when i had my abortion six years ago i had no context or knowledge of what the restriction was. I did not know that there was a force waiting period, that ended up pushing me further into pregnancy another two weeks because i could not access care when i needed to. As i mentioned in my testimony, the forest ultrasound felt horrible. I did not understand why i was being asked to listen to embryonic cardiac activity when i knew i did not want to be pregnant. And, perhaps, one of the most confusing part of my experience was my provider toyed me that the state requires that he tell patients that abortion causes depression, infertility, and many other and breast cancer, and, following that up by saying the state requires me to say that. Abortion is 100 safe. And, many times, it is safer than carrying a pregnancy to term. I did not understand why a state was providing a doctor to spread misinformation to his patients. But, you know, i went through with it anyways. And, despite the many restrictions that i face. And, again, as i mentioned in my testimony i do feel lucky that i lived in a city that had a clinic that i was able to access care relatively smoothly. But, whats these restrictions are intended to do is try and make people, try and stop people from having abortions. But, abortions health care, my abortion was the best decision i ever made. It was an act of self love and i am here today to make sure that everybody who currently needs an abortion, who has had an abortion, or will need an abortion, is not alone no matter what the state tries to force upon us. Thank you so, much myths lopez. And i yield. Thank you. The gentleman from pennsylvania, mr. Keller. Thank you, madam chair. Just a couple things. This is hawley, you clerk before Justice Roberts and argued cases before the Supreme Court, correct . Yes, sir, i cleared for chief Justice Roberts relitigated before the court but havent argued. Yes, thank you. Our government is a constitutional republic. In the tenth upend meant to our constitution, as it says here, the powers not delegated to the United States by the constitution or probe habited by it to the states, a reserve to the states respectively or to the people. The Dobbs Decision simply took abortion and said the states will determine the laws that cover that within state borders, correct . That is correct. The Dobbs Decision was actually one of judicial modesty. It corrected a 50year air and return to the people and the peoples elected representatives the intensely moral issue of abortion. Where it should be a. And thats asking a womans opinion, thank you for, that appreciate it. Following the dobbs ruling, prolife organizations, especially churches, have become seeds of vandalism and violence. On june 7th, the department of Homeland Security issued a National Terrorism advisory bulletin warning. Faithbased institutions of expected violence in the coming months. The fbi issued a Safety Report regarding janes revenge, the same Domestic Terrorist Organization responsible for posting flyers around d. C. That read the night scotus overturns roe v. Wade hit the streets, you said youd riot to our oppressors. If abortions arent safe, youre not either. So, weve had that happen. Since Dobbs Decision late on basic, and over 100 prolife institutions have been recipients of threats, desecration, vandalism and arson. I ask unanimous consent to submit a list for the record from susan b anthony, prolife america, issuing the recent violence. Without objection. So, when we look at all the things that have happened, and im thinking, where is the outrage at the intimidation and coercion and violence for these . Oh, i guess, ms. Hawley, what should leaders like President Biden and Speaker Pelosi and leader schumer be doing to hold these perpetrators accountable for the violence they are either threatening or causing around our nation . Well, violence against anyone, especially against Pregnancy Care Centers, especially against sitting justices of the United States Supreme Court, should be appropriately punished. They should be deterred. It is illegal to protest with the intent of changing a judicial decision before a Supreme Court justices home, that legislation should be passed to protect those judges and justices. In addition, i just think we should see real more outrage at the idea that we are targeting Pregnancy Care Centers. These are the centers that come alongside women to support, them to provide them with tangible resources and counseling and medical care. All of it free. To think we would want to take this away from women who need it isnt seem to me. Yeah, were talking about helping women at the most vulnerable, which are the unborn lives in our society. I think that, when we dont stand up for that, what other things will you not stand up for if you dont stand up for life . If a person isnt going to protect your life, do you think theyre going to protect any of your other rights . No. And as we think about unborn babies, these are the tiniest and most vulnerable humans among us. Their most deserving of our protection and it doesnt matter whether theyre viable or need a little more help, they are fully human, they are fully alive and they deserve a life. Being a father and a grandfather, i have three lovely granddaughters and i will tell you right now that holding them for the first time, there wasnt anybody that could convince me that wasnt a child or a life. Prior to birth. Absolutely. I have three children and agree completely. I thank you for being here today, i thank you for that opinion. Of a great woman who has served so well for our nation. Thank you so much. Thank you get, with the gentleman yields back. The gentleman from california, mr. Khanna and then we will recess for votes. Mr. Khanna. Thank you, miss chairwoman. And the free leadership. The overturning of roe v. Wade means the state is literally requiring women to have forest pregnancies. This is a matter of equality, it impacts a womans education, Economic Opportunities and securities. Miss goss graves, how does legal abortion enter workforce participation for women and reduce the gender pay gap . So, what we know is that, if you look overtime in the last five decades, there has been tremendous progress for women in particular. Their ability to control when and whether and the pacing of their pregnancies has meant that they can enter careers, that they can enter fields that they werent present in before. When we think about the other side and where we are now, with this is likely to mean for people is that not that they would have more children than they would before, its just that they would have children when they didnt want them and at a time that didnt work for themselves and their families. It is likely to put more people into deep poverty. Into the vast majority, more than 60 of people who have abortion care, they are already parents. So, it will affect them and their families deeply. Thank you, miss goss graves. Its important to emphasize that this is going to make the inequality, gender inequality, worse. This is fundamentally an issue not just of the right to make decisions, but also fundamental equality. So i think its an issue under the 14th amendment. Let me turn to you, miss lopez. Why is access to abortion so important for young people who still are in school or just about to enter the workforce . Thank you. I would first like to state that young people have just as much right as anyone else to exercise bodily autonomy. But it is especially important that young people have that autonomy in order to create the lives for themselves to thrive and create the families they want on their own terms. And that they are not being forced into pregnancy by any government or by any other entity, that theyre able to make these decisions themselves. That decision also includes if they decide to continue a pregnancy. All of the, as a pregnancy outcome, should be decided by the pregnant person. The law should reflect the health and safety of pregnant people. I just would also like to state on the record that young people, patients, also face harassment. Providers face harassment every single day for providing health care. And so, young people deserve to access abortion care and all of sexual and Reproductive Health care free from state intervention or stigma. Thank you, miss lopez. Senator mcmorrow, thank you, i recommend your formative speech everyone, im sure millions of people have already seen it. But i was very moved by that. If you could just take 30 seconds, because i have two questions left. But if you could speak to that legal abortion benefits for mothers in the United States. Absolutely. As i said in my opening testimony, congressman, getting and staying pregnant is incredibly difficult. So, i can tell you just some of the reaction, immediately, once the Dobbs Decision came down. There is a group of local residents on facebook or created a google document of ob gyns who will tire tubes, no questions asked. The ability to ensure that Abortion Access is safe and secure means that women and families can pursue pregnancy knowing that, if it doesnt go perfectly, that they will be okay. Thank you so much, senator mcmorrow, i appreciate your advocacy. My final question, nice hawley, i read your piece on edmund berke and serhiy decisis. I disagreed with it but it was well argued in terms of breaks decision. I would if theres any possible common ground, surely you would agree with me that in this country we should never prosecute criminally women if they choose to get an abortion. Do you agree with that . Absolutely, women should never be prosecuted. Thank you, i yield back my time. The gentleman yields back. Both have been called to accommodate members voting. The committee is going to take a short recess and we will reconvene in ten minutes, following the beginning of the last vote in the series. The committee stands in recess