Every element of the grand strategy. Obviously they were discussing each other as well. And attitudes to the allies or potential allies at whatever point of the war youre talking about and in terms of what help might be gained from the americans. When you get round to what we call the transatlantic telephone , there you have something placed by an american telephone company, bell telephones, in mid1943. That was to give a secure telephone line that was potentially unstoppable, if you like, connecting the british Prime Minister to the american president. As far as anyone is aware, it was used by churchill and roosevelt. It was certainly used by churchill and truman. Because the latter had their conversations written down. It was used from 1943 afterwards. About what, you can only speculate. New talked about the my show planning for dday. They certainly talked about the planning for the end of the war, the surrender of germany and the recorded conversations we have about what was going to be told to stalin and how this was going to take place. Referring to dday, do documents indicate what was discussed in this room or this location preparing for that invasion . There is very little in the site itself that indicates much of a dday connection. The site has been kept pretty much as it was and as it was used on the last day of the war. So, what you see is what tended 1945. In place in august it is easy in some ways to relate it physically to the end of the war. More than any other, but in practice, the site itself had quite a heavy involvement in dday. Building, parts that are no longer open to the public, there were adjuncts to the cabinet war rooms where for instance, it was a section fondly known as london control section, one of those polite names that covers one of these rather sort of less polite activities, in this case deception. Iny were heavily involved the deception operation to mislead the germans as to where the landings were going to take place. Certain part of france the germans were being misled to believe they would land in scandinavia. How is the information discussed here . Customerat time example there is no question that this was absolutely topsecret. When you get down to the map room, there are a few hundred people. The map room itself had no more than 40 or 50 people. In the map room, where they charted the movements of the war and the maps around the walls and the thoughts on the situation really across the chiefs of staff, the Prime Minister, this sort of information passing through there what we know is now called topsecret, the absolute top greater secrecy in any dimension. The primeout ministers room down here . How often did he use that question mark there was a room for Winston Churchill in 1940. Mosts probably the comforts of any part of the site. It has Fine Furniture and carpeting walltowall. There is a bedroom. He used it fairly infrequently. Probably five or six times. He was not a man who enjoyed being belowground for too long. And it must be said, fairly limited toilet facilities, which was an aspect of these site that churchill did not like. There was an office right next door to the map room. Who looks of a man the war in terms of maps and had maps anywhere he went. Almost ironically, when churchill had the reinforcements put in place around the building in late 1940, as soon as these reinforcements were complete, he camped just about them, set up a suite of offices on the first floor that had no reinforcements at all. Use those as a base and then move to train there and here onto regular basis. Youre watching American History tv. All weekend, every weekend on cspan 3. To join the conversation, like us on facebook, cspanhistory. Next, a panel from the lyndon b. Johnson president ial Library Civil Rights summit. It looks at the history of racial equality in athletics. Former eskimo player bill russell and former Football Player jim brown discuss their struggle for respect throughout their careers. They also talk about the roles of African Americans in college and professional sports today. This is about an hour. Good afternoon. My name is mike cramer. I am the director of the Texas Program in sports and media here the university of texas. Again with the lbj library and museum. This is probably about our fifth event that weve partnered at least on a piece of a program with them. Todays conversation is part of our series called the mcgarr symposium on sports and society that was founded by one of the distinguished alums, kathy mcgarr. Who were pleased to partner with on many occasions. We also have a an interesting timing of this today. Yesterday, one of our participants, dr. Harry edwards, who im going to formally introduce here in a moment, we formally announced that we have established a permanent lecture at the university of texas called the dr. Harry edwards lecture on sports and society. [ applause ] and so we couldnt possibly find a better person in the history of sports and civil rights than dr. Harry edwards and he was gracious enough to lend his name to that lecture and we expect well have several presentations under that name in the coming years. Today is we have a conversation thats going to occur on the area of sports and civil rights. Ive been a part of many panels and many presentations over the years and normally you try and find the best panelists and the best people to make that presentation. Rarely do you have the people, the top people, who are presenting. In other words, if you had to pick one, two and three, rarely do you get one, two and three. Today were fortunate that we have probably the three most important people in the civil rights sports and society and sports and Civil Rights Movement in the last 50 years and were ecstatic, were pleased, were proud that we can present them and have a conversation with them with you today. So let me say that again. We have here probably the top three people in this whole area in the last 50 years. [ applause ] so let me get on with the program. Its them youre here to see. I would like to introduce to you dr. Harry edwards. Mr. Bill russell. Mr. Jim brown. [ applause ] take it away, harry. Thank you very much. Its a real learn to be here with two men that i have known for about the last 45 or 50 years and if you hear a touch of respect and admiration and affection in my voice during the course of this conversation you have me correctly. I want to begin by stating that there have been four athletes over the last half of the 20th century who have been utterly transfor transformative. The first, of course, is the immortal Jackie Robinson. The second [ applause ] the second is the indomnitable mr. Bill russell. [ applause ]. And the third is the incomparable mr. Jim brown. [ applause ] and the fourth is the absolutely unconquerable ms. Billie jean king. [ applause ] i want to focus on the struggle at the interface of race, sport and society and in preparing for this conversation i went back and read jim brown and bill russells first two books, jim browns off my chest, and out of bounds. And bill russells glory for glory and second wind. I think that those are four books that should be required reading for all athletes entering college and professional sports today because they say so much about where we have come from and the sacrifices that were made in order for them to be where they are today. The things that stuck with me about about those books and reading them, was first, how well the philosophies, the perspectives, the ethical arguments and so forth of jim and bill have stood up over the last 50 years. The second thing is that they were superstar athletes when they stood up. They werent a bunch of old guys who had retired and so forth. They were superstar athletes when they stood up and spoke out. The third thing that struck me was that they never were willing to Exchange White racism for black orthodoxy. They were always about the people and their argument was that i as a man am part of the people and i insist on being respected as such. Throughout their books and then the fourth thing that really blew me away, that i find amazing to this day is how young they were. Were talking about 22, 23, 24 years old. What we call today young adults. A way of confining an entire generation of people to sandbox citizenship. [ applause ] but they were speaking out at 24 years old when this happened. So i would like, first of all, to go back to that time and im going to exercise my prerogatives as the only 72yearold up here and call you young men by your first names. [laughter]. And ask about what took you to that place . How did you end up at that place . And why dont we start, jim, with you in terms of this. How did you end up at that place at 23, 24 years old . Well, doc, i was very fortunate to have a great mother, no father, went to high school with a great coach. Greatest man i ever met in my life, ed walsh, a great mentor, conten kenny malloy, thy were impeccable in advocating education, Self Determination and i had an example of people that were really good. And there was tremendous discrimination in this country at the time. And it was it was told to me that i could be loved and popular if i would bow down and do a little dance. [laughter]. And i dont know if i all know what that means. [laughter]. But i said i dont really dance. [laughter]. I just prefer to be a man. An american citizen. And i pay my taxes, i want my rights. So freedom, equality and justice are what i pursued, i pursued it at all costs because nothing else would substitute for that. No trophy, no formal popularity and because i was helped as a young man, i knew that my lifes work would be to help others. So thats thats what you have here [ applause ] bill, what what took you down that path that you took . I was reading gore for glory, you have stated that i have never been one to pursue being liked. From day one i was about being respected. And what took you down that path that 22, 23 years old . Well, i guess it started when i was born. My mother and father, the first thing i knew about life, was my mother and father loved me. I was born in the segregated south in the 30s in louisiana. Louisiana, uhhuh. And my mother, our first conversation said to me, theres nobody on this planet any better than you. Also theres nobody on this planet that you are better than them. And so so i grew up with confidence that i was okay. And my mother and father always treated each other with respect. And so so what i what happened to the world, thats the way i thought it was supposed to be. And everything that you could change to make it that way when it wasnt. Huh. Did everything that you could to make it that way when it wasnt. Well, my mother told me, when i was young, she says to me one day, you can play in the front yard, for the first time. Mostly she kept me in the back yard all of the time. And she said, the reason i want you playing in the front yard is people will walk by. And they will say things to you. Good or bad. But it has nothing to do with you. It has to do with them. And their perspective. And so you play and have fun. And dont worry about that. Okay. And so when i grew up, i encountered things, i knew that i was okay. [laughter]. And so but moving ahead, a few years ago, i i met Nelson Mandela and we had a brief conversation. And i asked him how he could be such a good person of all of the things that he had encountered. And he said if i had reacted the way they predicted that i would act, then they were right. But i he said i am a mandela and thats where i get my philosophy from is that the opposite of love is not hate. The opposite of love is indifference. And so the only way as a as humans can evolve is they have to care about each other. That was that was evident throughout a number of your chapters in your book. Let me let me ask you, ask you this. Jim in particular. I was looking at a book entitled the 100 most important people in American Sports and quite fittingly Billie Jean King was on the cover. But there was a statement that you made early on in one of your earliest books. Where you stated that you had never been never been a time when you were not conscious of the Civil Rights Movement. You stated i was very conscious of the Civil Rights Movement and very active in what i called the movement for digits tee, equality and justice. In fact it superseded my interest in sports. Sports gave me an opportunity to help the cause and that is what i dedicated myself to doing. Now, i know that you supported the Civil Rights Movement. But you were ahead of the Civil Rights Movement in terms of your focus on Economic Development. What led you to move beyond simple desegregation to Economic Development, to starting the black economic union, setting up these offices all over the country, traveling through the deep south in a bus with other professional athletes talking to black Small Business people in georgia, alabama, tennessee. What led you to that sense that that was the direction things had to go into . Well, it was understanding that people had to get off of their butts. And regardless of what the condition, use as much intelligence and labor as they could to deliver themselves. We couldnt depend on the government or Corporate America or anyone and so i was always a person that advocated Economic Development because america its a capitalist society, its based on economics. If you dont use economics in your community, your community will never grow. The Jewish Community in this country and in the world that proven that collectively you can be a minority and apply the right principles and emancipate yourself. So i thought that the Africanamerican Community had to apply itself, have the greatest community, the safest communities and probably most of all, understand Economic Development. So that was the way that i led and i attracted the top young mbas in the country, spencer jordan was my number one guy, graduated harvard, magna cum laude and i got the top black athletes in the country and i put them together and we got a grant from the Ford Foundation of over a Million Dollars at the time and we had a fund that any young black entrepreneur could come and make that loan and get the benefit of the knowledge of our National Business planning team. And so that was the way i felt we could gain equality quicker than doing anything else. You know, i want people to really understand. Were talking about something think of a 26, 25, 26, 27yearold athlete today that would have that kind of insight and vig. And vision, this is how far ahead you were in terms of this situation. It astounds me even now. Bill, you, too, had a sense of the necessity of Economic Development. Not only did you have your own business here, but long before globalization came into the language and election son and lexikon of the society you had already set up relationships in west africa and were talking about how we needed to connect with african countries and have some mutual Economic Development and so forth. You also went into the south. I mean, two months after the assassination, i know you went down to mississippi and it was a frightening time and held integrated basketball clinics in mississippi, two months after meger evers death. Of course your Boston Celtics teammates as you stated said dont worry about it, youre going to be safe, youre going to be okay, just keep a low profile. [laughter]. But you went down and held those clinics, when you were down there, you talked to young people about the necessity of completing school, becoming economically viable and so forth. Well, most of the people that were as i could see, were economically deprived. And i saw that as one of the one of the places where you can purchase equality. If you have what what started out as a charity, you could make it a force and i know that i was i was in boston and there was a great many questions about why i would go to africa. People told me, they said the africans dont like you. Well, the people that were telling me that didnt like me. [laughter]. So i wanted to go and see for myself. Okay. And some guy came up to me and he says, what do you know about africa . You dont know anything about them, theyre not like you and you got no business doing that. So i said , you know, i have this family that are friends of mine. And they have been recused of supporting the irish revolution. They have been accused of supporting the irish revolution. The family was the kennedys, i knew all of them. In fact, im old enough that i remember meeting and sitting and talking with rose kennedy. And i says well, if its all right for them to go back where their ancestors came from, why is it not all right for me to go back where i think my ancestors came from . And so it was all about i never, ever considered myself as a leader or anything like that. All i did was one thing that i wanted to make sure that i never did anything that my father would be ashamed of. And so the some of the things i did, for example, i coached the Boston Celtics. I was a player coach of the Boston Celtics. And so they said, well, youre the first black coach in the n. B. A. And in fact youre the first black coach, manager, in baseball, football, basketball in the major leagues. What about that . I said to them, if red had ever said to me this is a great social experience, experiment, i would have nothing to do with it. The only reason i would do it, because im convinced that im the best person for the job. [ applause ] yeah. So so what i considered, tried to do, everything in my life, based on merit. And i expected all other people i surround myself with. To do the same. Now jim and i have known each other since college. And he used to tell me all the time that he was a better basketball player than i was anyway. [laughter] that was 38 points a game. I said, jim, no. [laughter]. And if i in fact i said to him one time, i says you know, i think youre one of the greatest athletes, if not the greatest at least in the 20th century. But leave basketball alone. [laughter]. Jim jim saw and i supported if you dont have any wherewithal to exercise influence, then youll never succeed in exercising influence. And i tried to live my life that would exercise influence. I personally am not interested in that. Im just interested in i raise my kids and i always let them know that i loved them. In fact, thats one of the key things about raising kids. My daughter, i have to fight off her telling me what to do now. [laughter]. She graduated from harvard law school. And the minute she gets a degree from harvard, she knows everything. [laughter]. So i just try to see where things are needed, recognize that things are needed, and try to put myself in a place where i can make a difference. Lets jump to the present. Where did the train leave the track . I mean, where are you the bill russells, what are the jim browns . I know we dont expect people to do the same way do things the same way that they were done in the 60s in the same sense that bill you and jim didnt do the things the same way that Jackie Robinson did or jessie owens did, but what happened . How do we come to the place that we have the level of uninvolvement, apathy, almost a lack of concern about these broader issues that you speak of now . Well, you mentioned Jackie Robinson. I met him a couple of times. When he died, i got a call from rachel robinson. Said that she wanted me to be a pall bearer at his funeral. I said given my age, thats an overwhelming honor. Why me . She said, you were one of jackies favorite athletes. And i took that to say that jackie had done a tremendous thing for us. That he that he was the first black to play baseball but he was never a pushover. And he took us to a place, opening up this whole world for us, but i was not going to revisit that place. I wanted to take it to the next step. Which you most certainly did. And so when red asked me he said hes retiring, back to my coach, he says im retiring, i got to find a new coach to replace me. He says, first, do you want the job . I said hell no [laughter]. I said ive watched what you gone through, i dont want no part of that. So we agreed, both made out a list of 10 guys that we would approve of. He says nobody can get the job unless you approve of it. So i made a list of 10 and he made a list of 10. There were no matches. [laughter]. And so he said, well, what do you want to do . I said, i dont know. He says, okay he will decide whatever, its just one coach. He said this is who im going to hire. I said red if you hire him, i am going to retire with you. I didnt even want to be in the same room with that person. I cleaned it up, i said person. [laughter]. And and he says, why . I said no. I will not be on the team with him. He says, well, what do you want to do . I said, ill tell you what, i will take the job as a player coach, and if it doesnt work, if you ask me to ill quit or you can fire me, it doesnt make any difference. And i will give whoever you replace me with 100 cooperation. Because i didnt want to i had grown to love that organization. And i wasnt going to do anything to harm it. To mess it up. So i did a pretty good job. I think you did. 11 n. B. A. Championships what i told everybody was i was a player coach with no assistants. I didnt have any assistants is that nobody could work with you. [laughter]. I heard that story. [laughter]. I can be difficult. I know. [laughter]. But, you know, i had a song written for me and he talked about my father. And the key line to the song was i am my fathers son. And he taught me how to be a man by being one. And so so i think that i can have friendships with guys that politically were completely opposed. But since i demand respect, i was also give i would also give respect. So the things that i did, i tried to do for the right reasons. Never to prove anything to someone i dont know. Now, jim is a lifelong friend. Probably after my father, the best friend that ive ever had. And the whole thing was based on mutual respect. You know whats odd about it to me is jim and i have known each other since college, and thats in the 50s. And i do not remember, and he says he doesnt remember, when we met. [laughter]. Momentous time there, momentous moment, yeah. But but the foundation is the whole thing is we live in america, and the better america is for everybody here, the better america will be. For everybody. [ applause ] and let me go ahead, jim. I would like to emphasize what you said, bill. Because this is a very diverse audience. And sometimes im misunderstood. I think sometimes youre misunderstood. But when you talk about Jackie Robinson, and i knew jackie very well, i had a lot of admir admiration for him. But i always talk about the man that truly integrated baseball was not jackie, it was frank ricky. Yajackie called him mr. Ricky. He stepped out of the power structure. He decided baseball should be integrated. One thing might be because it was the right thing to do. The other thing might be because of box office, there was a whole black audience out there that went to baseball games. He could have chosen satchel page or josh gibson because they were great, great baseball players. But he chose jackie because he knew jackie had the ability to play great baseball yet play the political role that he had to play even though it was killing hip. Hip kill him. So i say to you i had a lot of respect for branch ricky and people like him. So if i digress from there, i go to slavery and the underground railroad. And you must take note of these things to be able to live in america properly, i feel. And the underground railroad represented Harriett Tubman and Harriett Tubman was given tremendous praise for being that pioneer who basically lived her life to free the slaves. What is also overlooked is that those free houses that those people put up for the slaves to stay at and to hide them and to get them up to the north and get them to canada were regular people. Regular people. Nothing special. But the commonality was that they were good human beings. When we talk, the three of us, i want to emphasize this, we always talk about the category of good human beings before we talk about white, black, whatever. Right. And that becomes important in being a man because if i have the charity in my soul or the wisdom to recognize the goodness in people, then im a man. A man of god. A man of trying to do the right thing. Therefore, nothing you can do or say to me will change my attitude about my manhood. And over the years, the biggest problem that weve had in this country is whenever you stand up for the right thing, even though its for the overall populous, people take the attitude that you are a racist or they call it an opposite racist. And so i wanted to make that point because when you say, where are we today, one well, the one guy that i depend on most, young man that just won the superbowl, and who is a tremendous human being and who has gotten through some troubled times and who understands what were doing is ray lewis. And ray, i think, can be the leader of a lot of these young individuals who need that leadership. Who want to learn what to do and how to participate in making tremendous change within this country. So i just thought that i would interject that. Theres no question that the every generation has to develop its own leadership and i think that we can people of our generation can do their analysis and tell them about what happened in the past and where we think they are now, but ultimately its going to be this generation thats going to have to take the leadership and responsibility. Let me ask you, i know that because we are running short here, but let me ask this i know that progress many times is a lot like the concept of profit. It really comes down to whos keeping the books. [laughter]. And so in looking at where we are, how much progress have we actually made in sports . Given the fact that were down to 8 africanamericans in baseball, from 21 in 1973. The heavyweight division of boxing has just about been wiped out. I remember a time and you do, too, when there was ali, frasier, foreman, patterson, jimmy ellis, jimmy young, ernie turrell, big cat cleveland, a guy by the name of larry holmes couldnt break into the line if he was a sparring partner. Today you couldnt find two people in a 100 in the Africanamerican Community who could tell you if there was a black heavyweight contender around now. When you look the a the fact that the n. B. A. Is at the fact that n. B. A. Is one quarter foreign born. We are losing spots there. How much progress have we have we actually made . Where are we in terms of that concept. Well, harry, im going to jump in there because i think a simple way i can say that jimmy carter, president carter, experienced yesterday experience yesterday was almost everything that you need to know about progress, about heart, about honesty, and about the future. He is on top of it in every way. So i would say to all of america, if you can get a tape of the jimmy carter presentation, of yesterday, at that [ applause ] unbelievable. Theres a movement going on now about unionizing college athletes. I would be very interested in both of your opinions in this unionization effort. Its just starting, and i think people are really looking around about an opinion, a disposition, a perspective on it that they can kind of understand and wrap their minds around. Jim, bill . Bill, you want to take it . Well, for me, if i have i have this phrase that i use, all great fortunes are [indiscernible] either cheap or slave labor. And so the ncaa is one Group Everybody is focusing on. They have this money machine. And to keep it this way, the labor force has to be free. Or very low wages. Thats why you look at a lot of the Great Companies in this country, they pay their labor they cant even afford to go to the place where they work. I know when i was a rookie, 100 years ago [laughter] the average salary in the n. B. A. Was 5,000. Thats not even meal money now. And in the middle 60s we struck the all star game, the 20 top players in the league, got together and struck an all star game to form the union. And the owners said no way. Were not going to do that. So we said, okay, the all star game. Well, Abc Television said to them you want us to televise basketball, you cant get your players on the floor. So they said, well, lets talk to em. And so they said, well, we dont want to lose face. So what well do is if you guys will play the all star game, at the end of the year well recognize the union. So the vote, 119, to play. And we played the all star game. So at the end of the year, we sent our lawyer in to talk to the commissioner. And he says, i recognize the players association, but we do not have anything to talk about. Im not going to talk to you about anything. So our lawyer says okay, ill see you in september. Thats the beginning of the next season. The commissioner said, well, the playoffs start next week. He was like oh, no, were not going to play in the playoffs. Because you see what we knew then was our contract was for the regular season games only. Not for preseason, allstars or playoffs. So we said, well, well see you next september. The playoffs is when everybody got well. You almost doubled the price of tickets and you sold out every game. And they saw that revenue going out the window, so they said, okay, well talk to you. What do you want to talk about . And so we had a list of things that we had to change. And one of the things that we knew was baseball was the only sport that had antitrust exemption. The rest of us had to the rest of the sports had to go through antitrust laws. So all of the agreements with the n. B. A. Now are based on collective bargaining agreements. Jim, will with work in college . Is that a model for college . Is that something that these Young Athletes should be looking at . Im going to simplify it. Im totally against the union in college. I dont like the ncaa. I think its a greedy organization and a dictatorial organization and an organization thats totally unfair for the players. I mean, the players cant even get enough money to bring their parents to a game. But on the other hand, i think that we have all gotten away from the value of education. [ applause ] so im an advocate of lets go back to four years of college. [ applause ] and lets graduate and dont lets choose to play football basketball, football, whatever or not. And as you know, theres a very low percentage of individuals that make the professional teams. But everybody can get, with a scholarship, can get a college education. So we have three emphasize the education and the value of it because thats going to really be the ingredient thats going to make the change. Its not going to be a struggle between the ncaa and the union and all of that because thats strictly money. Yeah. And as we know, with these players today that we have, millionaires, over three twothirds of them go bankrupt within three years. So it cant be the money. So we put the value back on education. And making that dedication to your college and let the ncaa support that with giving the players the right amount of money so they can live a decent life while they get a great education. [ applause ] we are running short here, but i do want to ask you about one other thing. How close are we in athletics in this country to really measuring people, evaluating people, based upon the contents of their character and the caliber of their competence as opposed to what they are and who they are . We have a situation now where we have active athletes coming out and saying that im gay, jason collins, qwame harris, used to be with the 49ers, most certainly mike sames, brittany granier, a young man that played an ncaa championship game today, the first active division 1 athlete to come out and say that im gay. How close are we to putting this madness behind us about evaluating people based upon these all of these secondary, inconsequential kinds of things as opposed to the content of their character and the caliber of their competence . How close are we to accepting that in the nfl, say, or in are you looking at me, william . Huh . You want that one . [laughter]. Well, what ill say about it is when they the first athlete we heard about coming out as gay, asked me how would you feel about playing with a gay player . And i had one question. Could he play . [laughter]. The caliber of his competence. Right. Thats all. I cant add to that. Huh . I cannot add to that. [laughter] okay. Well, good. So so jim, was a professional in the most macho of all american sport sports. And it seems to me, it may not be a good correlation, but a lot of questions they asked about gay athletes. They were essentially the same questions they used to ask about us, black athletes. Absolutely, absolutely. [ applause ] you know . Well, isnt it a simple situation . We have laws in this country. And we try to abide bylaws. We have different denominations, we have different races, gender, and if you are a law abiding citizen, and trying to do the right thing, then how can anyone else judge you . I mean, i think its that simple. You know . I cant get into the religious aspect of it to the sexual aspect of it that i look for the, as you said earlier, the character of a person. And thats good enough for me because i have my own things that ive got to deal with, you know. [laughter]. I dont have an answer to everything. So we are getting pretty close to the end here and typically at this time, you know, is when the moderator will ask how do you want to be remembered and one thing or another. But i have i have researched that and i looked at 31 people who says how they wanted to be remembered and then when i actually read the followup, not one of them was remembered the way they said they wanted to be remembered. So we wont waste our time with that bit of morbid wishful thinking. [laughter]. But i do have i do have some a couple of last questions for you. Weve gotten pretty serious here and i think that this wonderful audience deserves a little chocolate shake with their broccoli. So let me let me ask first, bill, you. The question that ive been wanting to ask you for the last 45 years, just between me and me and i mean 11 n. B. A. Championships in 13 seasons. I mean, i looked at this thing where lebron james come out and said when he put his Mount Rushmore players up, he left you off. And i didnt have any problem with that because its really not Mount Rushmore, its mount russell. [laughter] and the faces he hangs on it, who cares, he can put in anybody he wants to up there. But i do have a question. 11 championships in 13 years, 13 seasons, its mind boggling. The question that ive had for you for the last 45 years, is what happened with them other two . [laughter]. [ applause ] harry can i do one thing . [laughter]. All right. My team went to the finals 12 times. One year i i had a severe sprained ankle and i wasnt able to play and we lost. Okay, now were [laughter] but, i very rarely bring that up. [laughter]. I tell you why. Thats a team game. And my team lost. And of course its been a team game, i want to also go to the other side and say my team won. So i give them credit for beating us. Okay. So them last two, you just lost. Yeah. Okay. All right. We can [laughter]. Let me its hard to talk about yourself. But i can talk about ya. [laughter]. You know, the 11 championships were preceded by two college championships, two of them. The common denominator in the team sport was you. Team sport means that you are a team, everyone having responsibility, and you win together. Not Michael Jordan being acrobatic or lebron james being a freak of nature. [laughter]. But bill your contribution. Made the difference. To the success of the team. It is your contribution. We dont have to deal with whether youre the greatest that has ever been and all of that, we know that youre the greatest contributor. Yeah. And the objective of a team is to win. There should be a picture of bill russell next to the word winning, winner, in the dictionary. There you go, there you go, absolutely. Thats my man. Let me [ applause ] theres never been a greater contributor in any sport. And two minutes that i got left, i have got a question for thats a friend of mine. I know, i know. What bill is essentially telling you is that you dont have to pay him that money you owe him. Youre in good shape. [laughter]. Let me, i have a question here. Jim, you are an actor, you produced a number of very successful musical groups. Of course you understand the politics of of Entertainment Industry and how much mileage you can get out of the form of forms such as football and so forth. So i have a question for you. Just in the end here because i really value your judgment on this. President barack obama leading up to his first campaign, famously went to the university of North Carolina and played basketball. I mean they had it all over the tv with the basketball team. Championship basketball team. He leading up to his second election, he famously channeled al greens im so in love with you. It became the number one phone ringer across the country after that. I have a question for you do you think he would have projected the same cachet charisma and cool, say if he had been into bowling and had [laughter] and had channeled Glen Campbells the wichita lineman . Do you think that he would have just as a guy who understands the entertainment part of this thing. [laughter] im speechless. [laughter]. I think everybody else would have been, too, if he had stood up there and sung the wichita lineman. I dont know how to answer that. I wont answer it. [laughter]. And i almost dont know what youre talking about. [laughter]. All right okay. [laughter]. I dont know nothing about that. We are down to the last 15 seconds. I want to Say Something to you. Please. Im sitting between one of my lifetime best friends and a guy that ive known 50 years. I got no business being here, okay. But i thought it was such an honor for me to be invited. Because because all ive ever tried to do in my adult life is to make my father proud of me. And we were my father died a was 75. S ago and he to me you know, i love you. That was the first time he ever that. And he says and im proud of you. Time he everirst said that. He said im proud that you