Next, republican senator marco rubio talks about the need to combat transNational Organized Crime and the drug trade in latin america. He is followed by a discussion on policy options for the Trump Administration. From the American Enterprise institu institute, this is an hour and a half. Thank you so much. Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to the american enter are pri enterprise institute. I am delighted that we have senator marco rubio here with us today to help us roll out this new report. Ive got my props here. I feel like vanna white. Its the product of the aei working group on transNational Organized Crime in the americas run by our visiting scholar, ambassador roger noriega. I dont think marco rubio needs a lot of introduction to this audience. Im going to give you a word or two. Then im going to hand things over and do a little housekeeping. Marco rubio is the United States senator from florida. He was elected in 2010 and reelected in 2016. He is a member of the committee on appropriations and the committee on foreign relations. He has a resume much longer that im not going to keep reading. To us, he really has been a leader on international affairs, somebody who increasingly our country turns to to hear where we should be going on these issues. For us today, i know were proud that he has been a leader on issues that are of extraordinary importance to us. In maintaining support for u. S. Engagement globally. The report is you are going to hear more about it than you are than you are going to hear from me at this very moment. This is a report thats a little bit different than things that you usually see coming out of the American Enterprise institute. Its very practical. Its very tactical. Its very focused on what we can do in the here and the now. And the main reason for that is that, frankly, transNational Organized Crime is an issue that we have not spent a great deal of time focusing on as a country. Its at the nexus of National Security threats to our country. It degrades democracy. It degrades our National Security. It degrades our hemisphere. And it introduced threats to us that otherwise would not be here. Just in the context of what this report talks about, earlier this month, two hezbollah operatives were arrested who had been scouting the panama canal. It provides ms13, which the Trump Administration has been going after and which is an instrument for all of these threats to our country to come together. I know that roger and the senator are going to spend a lot of time talking about these issues. I have a housekeeping item. I have to read it to you because i dont understand because im technologically inept. We are going to be taking questions from the audience through an Online System today. You can feel free to submit your questions now, which causes you to be looking at your phone. Im not sure thats a great thing. Feel free to submit your questions now following the senators remarks. To submit a question, you have to go to slido. Com and enter the code aei event. Its simple. Enter the code, type in your question and then it may be chosen to be read on stage. I hope it works. Senator, if we can ask you to come up to the podium. The senator will give an address and sit down to take some additional questions and then to take questions from the audience. [ applause ] thank you very much. Thank you, danielle. Thank you for your kind introduction. I want to thank ambassador no e noriega. Your new report is timely. Your recommendations are important for policy makers and lawmakers as myself in congress to weigh and consider. TransNational Organized Crime isnt a new threat to the United States and the western hemisphere. But its a dangerous one. TransNational Organized Crime resides at the heart of nearly every major threat confronting the americans, whether its the Opioid Crisis hurting u. S. Communities, the collapse of Oil Rich Venezuela or Gang Violence throughout Central America, which spills into the streets of American Cities and the report continues, these krcrisis can b traced to illicit drugs, Human Trafficking and extortion. For too many years, it has not done enough to deal with the threats. Such neglect led to death and suffering of too many people in nations throughout our hemisphere and here at venezuel the regime has undermined the constitution. It tortured opposition members. It killed protesters. It destroyed the economy. One of the richest countries in region, in the world in terms of resources. Its an oil state rich in farmland. Its corrupt government is running out of money and cant afford to feed its own people. As that nation continues to melt down, the regimes growing criminal networks are getting exposed. We see the government is not just a dictatorship, its a criminal enterprise. For example, the Treasury Department imposed sanctions against the vicepresident on the 13th of february of this year naming him a narcotics trafficker under the king pin act for playing a significant role in International Narcotics trafficking. His main front man was also sanctioned. Last november, a federal court here in the United States convicted two of the president s nephews for conspireing to ship 800 kilos of cocaine into the United States. Two years ago, the u. S. Justice Department Officials told the wall street journal they believe that the former president of the National Assembly was a head of a drug cartel. Think about that. The vicepresident , the president s nephews, former president of the National Assembly have been accused of being involved in transNational Organized Crime. Columbia we are seeing growing concerns with the implementation of the peace agreement. Many weapons remain unaccounted for. Too many members are joining groups and continuing to profit on illegal narcotics trafficking. Americas foreign assistance and relationship with columbia must continue. Between 2000 and 2016, the u. S. Congress appropriated more than 10 billion in aid under plan columbia and successive strategies. Peace cannot come at any cost. Members who committed atrocities must be held accountable. Columbia should extradite members in the United States. They should face justice here. In part because of the decision, the explosion of coca has risen during the peace negotiating increasing. Cloudi i including a sharp right in 2015. This is the result of the governments decision to end the eradication of coca plants. I believe it was a mistake. As a concession to achieve a peace deal in columbia. Now the gulf clan, largest drug clan, and paramilitary groups have emerged as the main beneficiary of columbias renewrene renewed coca production. The eln is 1500 fighters making it roughly onefifth the size of the paramilitary force. Mexico we have had transNational Organized Crime as a problem on a staggering scale. Since 2006 when mexico began its push against the cartels, some estimate that 130,000 people have been killed. Thats roughly the equal to the population of gainsville, florida. The mexican cartels are fighting to bring drugs into the country that poison and kill people. A record high number of americans, nearly 60,000 died from drug related deaths. Of concern is mexican heroin and the trafficking of fentanyl. Unlike in venezuela, we have a willing partner in the government of mexico. The United States congress has appropriated 2. 8 billion towards efforts to combat the cartels. The fight cannot be won only with money and guns. We must provide assistance to law enforcemenenforcement. The report released today notes that fewer than 12 former mexican governors are accused sorry, at least 12 former mexican governors are accused of corruption, money narcotics mafking. If the people do not trust their institutions from the local police to the prosecutors and elected owe ficti eed offic government will struggle to win the fight. Which is why i continue to work to ensure that we keep foreign assistance strong. These are not just going to the poor, they are going to programs that work with other countries to bolster Law Enforcement and the rule of law and the promotion of stability and democracy. These funds have a direct impact on our safety and security and they are essential this year. What are some of the solutions . I hope we will get into them today. The first is continue the funding of Development Aid and security programs, integral to countering transnational criminal organizations. Those in power are the problem. I hope we can build International Pressure in addition to ratcheting up on sanctions to anyone in venezuela oppressing the people, not just as the lower levels. We hope to support the venezuela people in their struggle for freedom. Which is why as a member of the Senate Appropriations committee, im asking for help in programs for transitional funds. So that when maduro and his cronies will be removed, there will be funds to assist venezuela in recovering from this nightmare. In columbia, we need to reassure them that the United States helps with the implementation. But it will come with conditions. The columbian people will have democratic elections next year and we need to work with the new colombian government to know that victims of the farc shouldnt be victimized and should be compensated. We need to work on radicalization of cocoa plants. And the threat of heroin is also on the rise in guatemala and increasingly in mexico. We hope to work with them to aggressively target that as well. Bad actors in Transit National criminal Networks Must be brought to justice by fully utilizing all legal tools to target narcotic traffickers and their assets including the kingpin act. And mexico as i said earlier, we continue to support the fight with cartels while working with partners in the Mexican Government on improving the ecosystem, the Law Enforcement and respect for human rights. The tide will only begin to swing against the cartels when mexicans feel like the government is there for them and has the ability to keep them safe. And here at home we must confront directly the discourage of drug abuse and dependence and the demand pressure it creates, which is major contributor to all these problems i have just outlined. In conclusion, let me just say that as i said at the beginning, i feel our hemisphere has for far too long received too little attention. We share our values and create free, stable and democratic societies that protect their people and reward their citizens with opportunities for their hard work and entrepreneurship. In colombia we have seen how our assistance dollars along with the colombia people yield return. This ensures that america remains a priority and is found in the new report today. As the report makes clear in strong recommendations, we have a lot of work to do. But these are all things given the proper motivation we can do. We must do. And i believe we will do. We must do so both for our neighbors and for ourselves. We thank you for the chance to make the introductory remarks and look forward to this session of answering questions and hopefully learning more about the way forward both from you and hopefully ill have insight to offer in that regard as well. Thank you. [ applause ] let me just as a reminder invite you to submit questions for consideration. Please go to slido. Com, slido. Com and enter the event word where youll be prompted for your question. Thank you very much for coming, senator. I must say, your remarks summarize this problem in a very efficient, effecti wa ive way. You are in the United States senate where i used to work as a staffer. The member of the Senate ForeignRelations Committee and at one point the chairman for the western hemisphere and member of the Intel Committee and member of the appropriations committee, which makes you my new best friend. As we go after these important issues. I forgot to turn the mike on, did i turn it on . I think it was on. I knew that one was on. How did that mike work even when i had it off . The report that we have presented here make recommendations in a couple of areas, the use of the asymmetrical tools as a way of getting it kingpins. But also where their assets are. This is extraordinarily important in terms of the kingpins heading to venezuela and killing its people. And the farc kingpins who claim that they as what the Justice Department called the biggest cocaine Producer Organization in the world didnt make a profit. Because they dont have any money except a few ranches here and there and what they can carry in a knapsack. But there are others who postulate they have anywhere from between 2 and 10 billion. How would you react to the idea of an initiative that really insists that the u. S. Executive branch go after these targets as priorities to seize those assets, maybe if necessary, new legislation to give them authority to repatriot that information to colombia or venezuela . A lot of the framework exists in the current law. Its a matter of policy and directive. Ordering the instructive treasury and all the elements of the National Power to identify where the funds are being placed and to use our influence over the world Banking System to gain access to these funds. And not to keep them for ourself, but rather to send them to these countries to help fund their efforts. And in the meantime, also kind of make clear to transnational groups that the world Banking System is not their playground. It will not be allowed to continue to use it to launder their funds or hide away their illgotten games at the expense of the people in the nations. But it is an important tool that should be applied and can be applied. But i just know from limited experience here after seven years, or sixandahalf years, that many of the agencies, it isnt going to happen unless they are specifically going to deal with a policy initiative. It is one of the strong recommendations of the ae ireport to turn into a directive for policy. Regarding colombia, this is one of the most important issues that extrapolate with the 16yearold insurgency that hasnt denounce d denounced thi. How can we best assist them in that process as we endeavor, not just to say the Peace Process, but frankly to save colombia from the criminality . We recognize columbia as a republic and the leaders are responsive to the people of columbia. As their partner, it is their obligation to make them continue to take a nation on the verge of collapse of being a failed state and brought it to a point of relative prosperity and security for a significant period of time. And i think were prepared and continue to endeavor to help in that regard. What i dont think we can allow, and this is an american senator or someone who needs to answer the people of florida or the people about how the taxpayer money is being spent, is to use them to unfairly benefit the farc. For example, not seeing we want to make sure our funds are being used for ensuring that victims, the assistance is set up so victims are compensated. Now through American Funds but through the farc funds. We want to make sure there are not corps that people who partnered with us are not being put on trial and treated like criminals themselves. And we want to make sure that none of the funds of the american taxpayer end up to a group we call a terrorist group. And many of the leaders are wanted for extradition. I think upwards of 60 crimes committed against the United States and our citizens. So as long as we are fair, frank and direct and to the point, we have the opportunity to work with the Santos Administration and whatever succeeds this administration and columbia. In the absence of that, unfortunately, if our dollars are not producing results, there could be real challenges to continuing our partnership in this regard. And i think to me, this is not just about preserving our relationship, but its about ensuring were getting results from it that we can justify to the american taxpayer at a time when there is an effort to reduce u. S. Foreign engagement in the world both direct and indirect. The president just made some took some steps regarding u. S. Policy for cuba and engagement with the cuban regime. One of the thing that is the Obama Administration was very proud of was this socalled antidrug cooperation with the castro government. And we were told by the administration and its a private briefing that that will sort of continue. What how would you assess value of that kind of corporation to ensure that it is used for our essential National Security interests . Im sorry with the cuban regime . First of all, it benefits the cuban government not to find itself in this situation and they have a history in the past about what they allowed to occur within the country. Our goal is pretty straightforward. We want a nation that has the same rights as the people virtually everywhere in this hemisphere. Over the last 20 years, every country in the western hem st r hemisphere has had within free election, except for cuba. That may not be true if places like venezuela, but they have had some experience of democracy over the last two decades except for cuba. We remain hopeful that the day is coming. Understanding that it will be a process of transition, but we want to make sure american policy toward cuba is incentivizing that as opposed to providing funds for the stay fuss questi status quo to become embedded, thats the goal of the castro regime. To have the world basically accept the undemocratic system of government and the militarys control of the economy and have the concrete dry on that. And become a permanent fixture in the hemisphere. That is something that the u. S. Foreign policy should not be encouraging. Within that realm, it has an oppressive government to cooperate with everyone when it comes to Drug Trafficking. The worst thing that could possibly happen for them is to once again be the do you think it is possible, those of us who understand what is going on in evevenezuela, i w you do, understand cuba is playing an extraordinarily Important Role in managing affairs there. Maduro would not be in office with the apparatus you see today that many of the key functions in the venezuelan government are operated by cuban operatives who came over from the island for that purpose. So it is a direct invasion of the institutions of venezuela. Whether it is the personal protection surrounding maduro, how the fashional guard is confronting protesters in the streets, all these things are directed and in many ways are directly participating in the acts. So there is no doubt in the minds of any venezuelans in the northern hem steisphere that th cuban government is the single reason that maduro is unconstitutional. A lot of my colleagues arent aware of this, protesters in the opposition in cuba are asking for them to follow the constitution. The constitution that calls for election every two years and for the National Assembly to be the chief legislative body. All these things have been canceled and ignored through the direct assistance of the cuban regime. Fair enough. Very clear. But we call venezuela a narco state and say maduros family is involved, the fashional security is involved. Is the cuban government involved, do you suggest . Absolutely. The cuban government doesnt have a heavy conscious conscience. I imagine what you have seen in the last 15 year, although theres still slippage, that the cuban government wont allow them to be a direct point, but that does not mean they are not supporting the government. And that is the relationship with the farc they knew was a narco trafficking group. They provided support for them, and in many cases, asylum and or protection for some of the key leaders. Well stated. Some are skeptical about the coercive strategy as someone here asks, what would you say to those who disagree with your views on that . Well, you see the impact that drug abuse has on this country. Its illegal. Imagine if it was legal and allowed. In many ways, people take cues, theres an addage, if something is not legal, it cant be that bad. So no doubt the country is paying a tremendous price already for the abusive drugs. I said that in my statement. One of the biggest ways to deal with this is the consumption here in the u. S. Without the consumption, thats the single greater market for the groups. If you look at the criminal groups, they are a parasitic entity. They are a cancer. They undermine and directly they directly undermine and threaten the rule of law in the countries. They control territory, converting them in ungoverned spaces. They undermine the security and corrupt institutions. They undermine the international communitys confidence and the countries they are in. They are an enormous security threat. They directly rival the government in terms of providing mon money. In the United States, a lot of it is fleeing people ms13 violence in Central America. It causes problems throughout the region. Our hope is to have stable nation states where people are prosperous and come to the United States because they either come here legally or because they come here to invest or come here as tourists. If that is our goal, you cant do that in nations in which a significant amount of its capital is being spent managing or attacking these groups to take these groups on. And you cant do that in plac places another one of our computer literate friends asked, you called the Mexican Government a willing partner, how does that play out in the mexican elections . Thats up for the people of mexico to decide. Its not venezuela or cuba. They will have a free and Fair Election and will decide new leadership. Our hope is we are prepared to work with whoever wins. Its an important relationship. Obviously thats a question that will be answered, but my hope is that its in the best interest of mexico and the United States for that to be the case. One of the concerns of going back to colombia is that they wouldnt have sufficient resources to take on the so called farc dissidence or creating criminal organizations or not taking advantage of the Peace Process but continue with the criminality. Do we need to think about the shifting u. S. Support over to the Security Side of things more than the economic side in colombia . They are interrelated. It is important to have Economic Growth and security if you dont have that first. Companies wont invest capital in places where they feel threatened and or feel the rule of law doesnt apply. Tourism isnt going to grow. People arent going to visit places they feel arent inherently dangerous. We had a bombing at a colombia mall a few weeks ago, if we return to those days, that would be problematic. They are a state that cannot Fund Governmental services unless it has an economy that generates the revenue in society for those purposes. So theyre intricatery related. You cant have one without the other. And a related question here on nafta, would you say that nafta has played a role in driving impoverished mexicans in Central Americans into drug smuggling to make ends meet . I wouldnt say thats the case. I think nafta like any trade deal has benefits and costs. Thats part of economic commerce. If you are an american farmer, nafta has been really good. Someone manufacturing a sector worker, by and large, i think that the relationship between not just mexico and the United States and canada, but the market has been a general positive. Like any trade deal that was created before the internet exploded, before google and all the amazon existed. Theres a need to modernize it and an effort to do that now. And i think it has move in a way that is very positive up to this point. Properly modernized is an answer, not a problem. One final question, and you have been very generous with your time. One of the things you hear in the countries is you want to get into crop replacement. They want to go in and convince someone who is in the drug economy to produce Something Else. And so in colombia its an effort to produce the cow or chocolate. Thats going to be good chocolate to equate what the cost benefits are from being a drug protection. This is beyond agriculture for people not to be dependent on that sort of thing with their economic wherewithall. Thats a key component. Economic growth can benefit to security with an environment where people dont have to rely on those Nefarious Industries to provide for the families. I have to admit i have a bigger problem with chocolate. One final question, how do you believe sanctuary cities affect our ability to combat organized crime . Well, i imagine to the extent that people believe that they can violate laws and their mike a terror status wont put them in danger of a migrant status. These are Intricate Networks of distribution that include americans on this side of the board that are part of the network. If you look at the network of distribution, the cross border operation involves nationals of other countries. But once it gets to i10 and towards the Southern State and up north on i5, those are americanorganized crime groups helping with the distribution internally. So this is called transnational for a reason. And that is these are Intricate Networks and organizations that operate across borders using nationals on multiple country, including distributors at the state and local level that are americans who are the typical heroin dealer in the United States is not from some other country. It is someone who lives here. Now the supply may have been trafficked in from multiple countries throughout the region, but ultimately we have a Distribution Network within the own country to be confronted. Sanctuary cities is not going to deal with that. I lied, let me ask one more question. I think its a good provocative one that gives you an opportunity to get on the right side of the white house. I think the you already are, im sure. On some things, yeah. Good luck with that. We have a lot of criticism that this is something that came up with secretary tillerson a while back, how do you think hes doing so far . L in latin america . I have to admit im positively surprised how hes oriented where his team is headed and what direction theyre headed on a couple different crises were confronting. How would you rate that . And what do you think his biggest priority needs to be . I think theres a willingness to be more engage in the western hemisphere. We are not going from the area of hyper engagement to a dramatic drop off. The western hemisphere has been largely neglected since the end of the cold war. That remains the case. And you see that both in the professionals entering the field and also just in where our attention is. For obviously reasons, right . After 9 11, a lot of the focus was on the middle east. Now with russia and crimea and ukraine, that captured a lot of attention. And the history will largely be determined by the relationship between the u. S. And china and the asiapacific region in general. But theres a willingness to be more engaged in the region and understanding that the regional stability is one of the most important things we can do for Economic Prosperity and our own internal security here in the United States. So theres a willing tons be more engaged in it. And hopefully we can provide input as to what that means and how best to construct it. We thank you very much, senator, for your terrific discussion of this issue. Obviously, your serious attention that youre giving this problem that were confronting. And identifying opportunities for getting ahead of the crisis. Thank you very much. God bless. And i want to thank you. Thank you very much. [ applause ] so think we are going to go ahead and get started. We have a lot of knowledge assembled on this dias. Im going to draw mmatically ree your bios, these are extremely accomplished people. But we want Important Information to get to. Selena is from the National Defense university. She worked on elicit networks, organized crime, Counter Terrorism and threat finance. You must be busy. Shes taught at numerous institutions including joint special operations universities, served as a Foreign Service officer and is the state Department Director of the finance programs. Joseph is the executive director of the center for a secure free society. Has a Global Expert specializing in asimilar ymmetric warfare. Hes also i do want to note this, an eightyear veteran of the u. S. Marine corps serving in iraq and liberia. Douglas is the president of ibi consultants, a senior visiting fellow at the University Centers for complex operations. Hes an author and National Security consultant and analyst. Hes been a Foreign Correspondent and Investigative Reporter covering Drug Trafficking, cartel activity, civil wars and organized crime in latin america and western africa for two decades. And roger noriega, ambassador noriega, is a visiting fellow here at aei and managing director of Vision Americas which advises those on international businessi issues. And u. S. Ambassador to the organization of american states. So thank you, all. Im sorry to reduce your bios so dramatically. I think a lot of important things have already been said. Frankly, this is were sitting here talking about this report today because i think theres a lot of experience and knowledge on the western hemisphere here and on counter drug and crime issues as well as among our assembled members of our panel. And the reality is those of us who worked on the western hemisphere have been very focused on sort of the march of positive things. We have seen a lot of wonderful things happen in the region. A lot of trade agreements, a lot of positive developments and sort of democratic strength in governance. At the same time, something has been happening which is the dramatic rise in crime in pathways of criminality that carry arms and human beings and drugs and illegal funds and all sorts of things back and forth across the borders in this region and into our own cities. These are serious threats. They are Network Threats and way more complicated than us simply taking one person off the board. In many case, they have very profound links into governments that should be our partners but maybe cant be because they are themselves criminal. And so this project, i think a lot of people are familiar with the issues. This project is really about getting practical. About saying, here in the public view, or is this collection of information about different threats in the region, whether its what is going on in el salvador with certain individuals in venezuela, whether or not its gangs, what the group has done is a dossier of threats in the region and gone about the business saying, this is what we know and present the ideas to present to policymakers a body of knowledge, a set of recommendations on what to do about it and thoughts on what other tools might be needed to really get in and pull apart these networks. So i think we should just get to questions. Because i think we have a huge depth of knowledge here on the di dias. What we want to do on the first round is give you a couple minutes to articulate the hardships in the region. Roger, well start on your end. Since we have talked about accident l venezuela, well go back to it to analyze what the core elements are of National Crime playing out in venezuela. And what is going on in venezuela that is fundamentally different than what is going on in other parts of the region where they are confronting these challenges . Thank you very much, kirsten. We havent head your bio. No one needs it. You have been in the coast guard and been on the pointed part of this sphere as far as the policy standpoint. Thank you very much for that question. I remember in the 80s when people through around the name narco state, we were yeah, doing him a great disservice because we have a real narco state in venezuela today. And it is really more than a narc orchestra jetstream, its a continuing criminal enterprise. Where various levels from the ministers of government, minister ander into er inter i justice, the head of the units for Drug Trafficking control, the Vice President of venezuela, the former president of the National Assembly, essentially the speaker of the house, woman the department of justice told the wall street journal is a kingpin. The members of the president s own household directly are involved in this trafficking. You have a situation where the security officials, because of the alliance that hugo chavez made with the farc, had access to vast tons of cocaine. And then went about the task of moving this to cocaine to the National Territory and using the resources of the state and personnel in the state. You have these ministers of government who were more preoccupied with the criminal activities than they were to doing their own jobs as ministers of government. And there was no accident. It was something where hugo chavez systemically destroyed the institutions of government, checks and balance, any kind of oversight over his power, and even through his Foreign Policy developed these instruments that would be used to get cocaine, to launder the money from the sale and transition of this cocaine to move the cocaine. If you have the government directly involved in criminality, that is really a gamechanger. And now were grabmenting with how to deal with that kind of a target. Craigreat, okay. Not great for venezuela but great description. I think one of the more important parts of this report, its so important, one of the more important parts to me is the chapter on the criminalized state in the americas. Because i think it is a critical phenomenon for policymakers to understand and to acknowledge the sort of connective tissues that exist between criminals and the state in many of these countries. Can you talk to us a bit about what that means . You can use el salvador, roger talks about venezuela or one of the other examples in the report to give us the sense of what youre talking about when you talk about a criminalized state . I think we often say, what is different now . We have had Drug Trafficking for so long, what is different now . One of the fundamental differences is they use instruments of state policy and engage in an entirely separate type of reality of what they define as legal and illegal from what was the consensus in the hemisphere for many years. So, for example, venezuela, which when drugs are transitting with the permission of the government, with government officials involved and where the state itself and the individuals benefit from the profits of that, thats an entirely different structure than having a few corrupt individuals here and there where you are by someone to move dope across the border or whatever. You had a letter this last week from the congress, the Bipartisan Group of legislators requesting information on el salvadorian officials known to work with the farc and the businesses hes associated with have generated huge amounts of money, for which theres no visible justification for them. Its the state doing that in those cases. Nicaragua is very similar. Surinam is very similar. With a series of state where is the government is viewing transNational Crime not just as them individually but the state as a project. And i think to understand the movement, which of which venezuela has been the leader, its, i think, not just venezuela that is an ongoing criminal enterprise, but it is multiple states together to share this. And i have the ideology in view of the engagement of the transnational atlantic crime in advancement of the ideology is completely legitimate. They say when he was the commander of the european command said, in talking about russia, we think that they are committing a foul, like we are playing basketball and want the ref to call a foul. They are not doing democracy. Essentially, they are playing an entirely different game and thats the way it is. We think, oh, venezuela is not Holding Elections and el salvador is not investigateing him. They are in an entirely Different Court doing Something Else completely. So the yellow card and red card is meaningless to them as they operate on a different conce conceptualization than we do at that point. I think it is critic lip important to understand what to go after if we tackle these issues in the region. Joseph, i want to focus on a piece of this report that is sort of interesting to me because i know in my time in government, a number of times the issue of iran in the region has come up. And it is generally sort of, oh, well, its not that consequence shl, its not operational, its overstated. There is an entire section in this report on this issue, which i would encourage everyone to read, but more often than not, it really is suggested that it is overblown. And i wonder if you can tell us why you think that is. And also, just tell us how long are they, the folks that take that perspective . Uh think over time we are seeing that be revealed. This is an individual no one suspected would rise to that level and is someone that has alleged ties to hezbollah and iran. But i would say its a dual challenge for u. S. Law enforcement intelligence. On one end, we have to look at how security National Security has been. Over the last couple of decades, maybe more, its been viewed from the counter narcotics. Thats the number one threat the u. S. Has wrestled with over time. They use the word Threat Networks. But we have to understand that with the counter narcotic state ji, theres an opportunity clause there. What is the opportunity clause there . Counter intelligence. And the iranians know that. They are masters at deception. So why is it that everywhere in the world we acknowledge that hezbollah and iran work hand in hand. I just came back from latvia with members of the eu and the countries in the middle east. When i talk about hezbollah and iran, they look at me like they didnt know this existed. Why isnt everyone in the world understanding that iran works with hezbollah together, but here we say, no, they dont. They dont cooperate. I think fundamentally what happened is we lost our ability to do continuer intelligence in iran and hezbollah knows that. When we look at the latin america, thats the point of indication. Over time, selena has been involve in a lot of this, a bunch of Threat Networks are converging. But how does that interpret in the region with our friends in latin america . They hear the criminal part before the terrorist part. And so oftentimes when we talk to folks in latin america, they dont have a proper designation or definition of terrorism the way we do in the United States. Hezbollah does not exist as a terrorist organization in latin america. Nobody designates it in latin america. Such in paraguay it could be a trafficking organization. But they dont acknowledge hezbollah is what they say they are, which is the interNational Territory organization. So there are legal challenges to fix, there are intelligence issues to address. Thats been the vak yuncuum of the u. S. Government has seen these things the and why they missed it. I remember when they first send submersibles that were found making their way north out of colombia, what we discovered is it wasnt illegal to operate a submersible. We made it illegal here and discovered nobody else in the region had a law to make it illegal. And you need to get the right framework to tackle these with the partners willing and able. Selena, we are going to give you a giant issue to talk about. Because we know you can handle it. So i think as you heard from senator rubio and some of the things already said, that president Trumps Administration is kind of going after some of these issues, they have used sanctions, they have issued an executive order that kind of coalesces their strategic view, i think, of the transatlantic organizati organized issue. I would like to get your sense of how you think they are doing. And whether are they sort of maximizing the use of the tools they have available. And maybe this is unfair, but if you cant speak to it thats fine. The other thing i would love to understand is how this issue sort of looks from a budget perspective and kind of what they have put out there. Because at the end of the day, this is about more people being available to look at assets and all the practical thing that is require resources. Thats huge, i realize, but help us out because i know youre wise. Lets start with the good news. The United States actually has the tool kit in order to fight what is the scourge of transatlantic organized crime. To expand on what joseph mentioned, we are now at the u. S. Government looking at transregional and transnational Threat Networks. Not looking at now the commodities that go through many of the combative commanders starting with general dunford, we are looking at how old the networks are related but more importantly at the path waist. We are silos of experts here in washington where i only do counter narcotics and only look at cocaine, not heroin or anything else. Or i only look at his bo lezbol anything else. This is the concept of convergence we have very much documented through a lot of work at the defensive yooumplt we are thrilled to see the new executive order issued on february 9th reinforcing laws that are in place, but it also showed political will. So its not that the laws were not there. It wasnt that the sanctions regime was not available. It was the first act of secretary mnuchin to sanction, which is pretty interesting in the first couple hours of his taking oath. And the package had been ready for quite a while. So the bigger question is, how do we move, take that political will and more importantly export it. Because whether it is the United States or our partners throughout the hemisphere, it comes to having the speeches and photo ops of the different Vice President s going down and meeting with Central American leaders. Its really how youre going to put the pedal to the medal and prosecute, which is a big piece. If we think of all the chapters we look at here and all the groups and actors that we look at, they are motivated by one primary thing. And it is all about the money, which is my favorite topic, as you know. So the bigger objective is how do you take away the money . And thats where the tools are. The question about the budget piece, as you know, we are thinking about rationalizing foreign assistance. And i have run these programs in the past in different administrations and different rules. And were tending to train the same people. Were tulsa training, were using the same metrics. We have to go in front of senator rubio and depend it, its not how many people you train but what youre training them for. And this is a big piece of what are the Lessons Learned of what impact did training that specialized deaembedded unit in a certain country is in terms of our addictions and more importantly the judicial system, which is wanting throughout latin america. To bring, you can have the laws in place, you can have all the investigators doing the right thing, but if we still have corrupt prosecutors and judges, it is not really the impunity still rules as you know. Only 3 of crimes are prosecuted in states like mexico. So until you have a wholistic approach, its a bigger challenge. Right. Which makes it seem overwhelming and impossible. So right . I think thats one of the challenges that we have. But in terms of the other pieces of the budget, like treasury and other places, i mean, its not just the assistance piece, right in its the Law Enforcement piece we have to get at i assume. So, as you know, i have trained many generations in terms of terrorist Money Laundering. And theres a competition we have in a new field, which we did not talk about, which is cyber. Talent pool is fixed and the offers from the private sector are so great. We are cannibalizing on our own people who are the experts. So some of the things we are looking at is, how do we keep people abreast of the situations . A lot of times the most busy officials are the ones who dont have time for training and to keep uptodate with the latest ways of laundering money through currency orb bitcoin are. And we have to think of innovative ways. I was a banker on wall street brought in after 9 11. People want to serve. And theres a bigger question about how you engage the different sectors of society into what we call now the National Security architecture. Which maybe 10 to 20 years we wouldnt think about, but now it is all about ppp, Public Private partnership, trying to figure out how to make amends when you have this very osteer budget environment and figure out places for them to stay like the treasury or at the fbi where we have amazing talent in terms of investigators for these types of crimes. Right. So lets kind of set our minds to the solutions piece as to what we do about it. You know, roger, you talked about a very specific sort of problem in venezuela. And you did as well. The idea that the state is not severful from the criminal activity. So in cases like this, i assume that we have to take these issues on the we ever want to see venezuela, beyond elections and other thing, if we ever want to see a stable prosperous democratic venezuela. This has to be part of what we take on. Im just going to stipulate it to that. But how do you tackle this when the state itself is the problem . What are the tools that we have . And i know you theres a lot about this in the report, but what are the tools we dont have that we have to be talking to senator rubio and other people on the hill about acquiring for folks tasked with taking this on . Well, first and foremost, it requires political will. The package was sitting up there for a year and a half. And no action was taken because the administration at the time didnt have a broader strategy on venezuela on where they wanted to confront the regime. But it is always the right time to do the right thing. And its the right thing to stop criminals from shoveling cocaine into the United States. And for using our dollars and our Financial System to launder the proceeds of that dangerous criminality. In the case of venezuela as the targetrich environment, one of the names we mentioned here to give insights there on the assets in the United States is what were recommending is that the administration use the same sanctions against a guy like that who is amasked in billions of dollars from the criminality. Which he is very important as a political actor in supporting maduro. So we dont want to intervene in the internal affairs. But this is a way the United States can signal to use the asymmetrical tools to confront this threat. We are not convening in the political affairs. We are just saying the speaker of the house of evevenezuela ca use dollars to bring in cocaine. Well seize the earths. And we may need new authorities for the United States government to go after stolen assets that have been taken. Some estimate 150 to 2500 billion looted from the enterprises by these criminals. Take those assets and rather than have them be a property in the u. S. Treasury, repatryuate them to the people from whom they were stolen and part of the reconstruction. This is part of the broader issue. The sanctions against el salvador has to be in the broader diplomatic with a broader diplomatic strategy sending messages that the United States is going to stay engaged confronting the criminality. Sending messages to the military that you are next in venezuela as a matter of our policy. And also has to be included with International Corporation to eventually clean up the toxic waste of the criminality and venezuela and build up institutions to confront criminality wherever it occurs. I feel like the rest of you might have something to add here. Well, i would say what selena said is fundamental. Thats going after the money. The thing that makes all of these people valuable in the structures they are in is their ability to amass and move large amounts of money. So to me the first thing on the policy side is understanding. Theres not a clear understanding of the amounts of money the folks are actually moving into the billions of dollars as roger said. Theres not a clear understanding of the complexity of the networks and how the networks in Central America overlap with the networks with the farc that overlap with accident somed venezuela with overlap with cocaine. Youre talking about a very complex and very large and almost separate universe from which the legality, what we term legality, operates. So i think the desire and the willingness to do things like take away visas from people we dont want visiting our country, even if senior government officials, is incredibly important because it sends messages. And focusing and resourcing the treasury folks and authorities who can do the investigation. I deal with ofec and others who are constantly overwhelmed. They simply dont have the capability to do what needs to be done. If you view this as a threat of the magnitude that some of us obviously do. So i think those are the if you take the money away from the consensual nodes, that makes them important and the infrastructure starts to crumble. Those are the main issues. I agree with doug and selena and roger. Money is instrumental and sanctions are effective, but sanctions isnt a strategy. I think we need to think broader. Selena touched on this a little bit. You beat networks with networks. Thats how you fight networks. Until the United States builds a network that sufficiently is capable enough and is unified, were not going to win this asymmetric fight. The asymmetric warfare is a war not fought through conventional means. How do you win a conventional war . You utilize your adversary. We have to fully utilize what we are dealing with. The senator mention ed hasami. He is the great uncle to a gentleman. He is one of the founders of the movement in syria. The networks we are dealing with are centuries old if not a half century old. These are wellestablished and well trained networks. I think we have a golden opportunity that didnt exist five or six years ago. The criminalized states took a lot away from us in building alternative networks and play by a different set of rules. But now we have a new government in argentina and peru. We have the potential of one in bl brazil and guatemala. If we cannot capitalize on that opportunity, we may not get it again. So i think it is time. I think it is notable to me that we have a degree of momentum on the counter narcotics issue where everyone understood the issue. Most in the region understood the issue, understood that we needed to cooperate, went after it with a lot of different tools, but we dont, my sense is we dont have that sort of coalesced perspective on the transNational Organized Crime. Although everybody is feeling the consequences. And i know you just got back from guatemala and have been involved in efforts to kind of begin to bring the rally in the region to these issues, do some training. What are you picking up at youre out in the region about the level of concern, the level of focus on these issues and on tackling them . Well, historically for those of us following this for several decades, we talked about producer countries of drugs, transit and consumer. But now with the dawn of synthetics, everyone is a consumer, everyone is a producer and everyone is in transit. And it is really interesting now that we see a lot of the traffickers paying for the transit with actual drugs they are creating a health crisis, people have never really seen, and it is not just in the United States, in latin america, we see it in africa. They are paid with cocaine. And doctors never saw in west after africa what that looked like. It was not very covered except in the miami harold, but there was a conference on prosperity and Central America in the United States and mexico. We had the president s of the northern triangle countries, ministers from all of Central America focusing on three things. First, why theres the Citizens Security piece, which is driving people away, which is affecting the migration patterns throughout the region. And then the levels of violence, which are still quite high. They are reducing but still a reason that youre fleeing. Any migration that youre fleeing away from violence or lack of opportunity towards the opportunity. And the other pieces that were looking at is really reengaging and more importantly reinforcing judicial institutions. This idea of anticorruption, which is quite a vogue around the world, particularly in latin america, which has toppled several governments including guatemala, which i was just there. And the third piece was luking at regional corporation. Joseph mentioned the red networks, usually red on a graphic is negative. We think about the enemies or the ad vever ad very airs in th areas. And this is the idea of having other countries now facing the scourge of Drug Trafficking, Human Trafficking, all types of contraband that also has Health Effects and trying to get them to own it. It was very interesting to see at conference when they looked at society owe economic pieces first on the first day and the security on the second day, which in the past its always been the flip. And the idea was to also make the private sector look at how to encourage investment. So its a very holistic piece. Looking at what we call the dime model we teach, the diplomacy piece, political will, economic, investment and the Law Enforcement intelligence. How do we Better Connect to go after these red networks . So i did want we are going to run out of time. I did want to get to the issue of colombia. And the it was mentioned earlier, the farc dissidence. And this question of, the farc, its history and connection to criminal states in the region, the connections to transNational Organized Crime organizations. And the question of how in the Peace Process in colombia and in the process of the farc transforming itself into a political entity, how you would sort of forstall that from being input into the process. I know that the farc is a disdent entity and we shouldnt be concerned about it, but should we be concerned that those relationships and those activities will remain integral to the farc and connected to the farc for political presence as they move into the implementation of the Peace Process . And what is to be done about it . Do you have a thought on that . I know its an area of specialty for you. Well, i think the farc disdents fale into categories. There are folks in combat for many years and dont want to go to a different type of life. And i think that if you look at the Central American model that i think they are following quite closely, there will be groups that simply dont demobilize as part of the ideological struggle Going Forward and to keep an armed resistance or capability in case things like the united patriotic movement, massacres and stuff, start again. And so i think that there are multiple baskets you cant just say, farc dismissed or one particular thing. But i think there are specific groups that have, from the 48th front, the group that was just up on the board, the senior farc officials including one in the havana peace talks and others, probably retain a much closer organic link to the farc seco secretariate and the gold mining structures. I think for the farc to let those go would be incredibly difficult and hard to do. I think they have taken a step back. The numbers, i think, are small in relative terms. But you see things like the farc and the 48th front moving brand new weapons from one camp to bury them in another place outside the camp. With new weapons, new factorymade land mines, lots of stuff that they have no indication of buried in the jungle before. And every indication now that were seeing in Central America that a lot of the old weapons of the farc are flowing into Central America. And i think they kept a reserve of the good weapons for themselves. So it is complicated, how to handle the process is matter of political will and the clm olomn government, one cant say from the outside you can do this or that, but they are putting an enormous amount of amount of t resources that they kept and didnt turn over as they were supposed to in the peace 0 process into developing political inn infrastructure in the areas but also broad evening out from there in an effort to get in the game as a very high level because what they were told during the peace talks is look how long it took us to take power. It took us 27 years. You need to harnet yis your resource and take power in a shorter period of time. We couldnt do it because we dont have money was that argument. And think this they took that to heart and theyre trying to put in the processes of them take political power at the 3450u nis pal state and National Government and much quicker time than the fln was or the long lapt in 1990 in 2007 arguing the same thing. You think they had a Strategic Plan . I do. Interesting. I could ask you this . Sure. Im not saying that doug is the one that took me to school on this a few years ago, because, you know, and i speak to different members of congress and their staffs about the subject. I always admonish them, never assume that our enemies are as disorganized as we are. Because theyve been the farc leadership have been cooking up this transmodification from the insurgency to the Political Organization for decades. And there was a conscious effort go into the cocaine business. And one of the persons that helped convince them of this strategy and convinced them to get involved in cocaine in a very big way, move away from that sort of supportive role, be directly involved in the trafficking to maximize their profits, was jose moreno whos the head of in the coupe la that runs the el salvador today, was, you know, a coconspirator with chavez in the development of these Money Laundering organizations, masquerading as social organizations. And if you so if you want to test my proposition about whether they have one billion, 2 billion, 3 billion the farc has at their disposal, you might want to ask Jose Luis Merino where he got his billion dollars. And my guess if you start pulling on the strings of his accounts youll find a network of where a lot of this farc money is. And he, incidentally, was in havana advising the farc during the negotiations of the socalled peace plan. So never assume that our enemies are as disorganized as we are. Do you want to respond to that . Columbia is a great concern. That was i Success Story for the region, for u. S. Engagement and u. S. Partnership plan, columbia did a tremendous thing in a very short a. Time, ten years. And i agree with doug. I think the farc had a plan and a direction and knew what they were doing. Anyone that studied military strategy, he had a famous saying where he said war is but politics by other means meaning theres a hybrid between politics and war. But what did lennon say sne said poll politics is by war by other means and they always do that, theres a Strong Political element to what they need to do. The purpose of this paper and this conference in general, you know, the word of transNational Organized Crime, the operative word there is organized. Because if, you know, transnational is across borders, crime crime, but organized is what separates them from Everything Else and theres nothing more organized than the farc and the farc files had dissect their network you include ngos as far as europe and latin america and tremendous capability that we we didnt see until it was too late. I can say one last twosecond thing . Yes. Its toes overestimate the ability of these groups to carry out their plans in ways that we sort of give them these qualities of when they are also very vulnerable and human ninkt its easy to overestimate what the farc dissidents actually represent and i think its equally dangerous to underestimate but i dont think theyre in month lijic force on the move either. I think they make a lot of mistakes and theyre not unified and they fight because theyre human beings and they dont all agree and things fall apart sometimes. On the farc. Yes. The cocaine trafficking is higher than its been in decades and its not about the farc. Just as the farc replaced the car tells, someones replace the farc. So theres actually some of us who are quite provocative looking at whats in mexico, the cart tazation of the drug trade ant gold mining and the Human Trafficking of these different criminals. Theyre criminal bands that are starting to gain much more traction because everyones distracted looking at the farc and what thats going to look like. Someones still running the business. So the bigger question voy this theory so there are members of the farc who will succeed and more importantly we have to hold accountable. There are others who will join existing criminals and others going create their own, which is why i think doug and i have take ann look at. Because the illicit economy is still there and more lucrative and much more productive than weve ever seen. And highly adaptive. Yes. And they have market diversity and all the other things that any licit business would like to have. We didnt note it here but its the first this past year is the first year weve had an increase in domestic consumption cocaine in the past eight years. Disturbing. Notable. Lets give our folks a minute were we with v about ten minutes vor lets take a few questions that the audience has sent which hopefully i will be able to read. So since weve mentioned mexico and we havent talked about it more broadly and it is discussed in the report, one of our one of our attendees as asked what the thoughts of the panel are on the American Initiative and whether or not the u. S. Should continue to pour so much money into that strategy. I think its a fair question. I also think if anyone i dont know if its you roger wants to speak briefly and anyone else who wants to add to the mexico question and also to specifically this question from the audience. Sure. I should note that there are four of us here but there are 16 people that drafted this paper. Yes. And the people in the audience in case related to that but the very much on the mexico thing and mexico is one than doesnt when we suggest these rifleshot sanctions were not saying its a substitute for a strategy and has to be followup, there has to be in the case of mexico there are really no rifle shots either. You know, it has to be a wholistic reappraisal of what were doing there. And i think theres a great understanding and appreciation for the fact that since farcs took office then certainly they called their on on the last ten years weve had a lot of cooperation with mexico. President george w. Bush put considerable resources to this initiative, it approached convenient wally 2. 5 billion. But and the strategy of the mexicans, particularly in the colonel der ron was going after the king pins. And essentially its the same, although it didnt really have a strategy initially, they have pursued that. What we say in the report is that as long as mexico doesnt get its arms around the corruption issue and the impunity problem and have a more effective judicial system to deal with this in a systematic way, youre not going to get traction against this problem and youre not going to have the kind of sustained political will that will deliver significant results. So you have tens of thousands of people who have died in mexico because of this confrontational strategy. And we never really got our arms around it or were willing to talk in a serious way about the indemmic corruption that undermines the Cooperation Among agencies or levels of government in mexico. And so we need to have an appraisal of that. And thats going to be something that clearly mexicans have to do within their the four corners of their country. And but on there are some things that the United States can do. First off, i do think we need to sustain this effort because its the consumption of drugs in the United States thats fueling this problem. So we cant sort of walk away and say thats a problem that they have. The Opioid Crisis that we want to deal with here is the direct result of a failure to control prescription drugs which creates this, you know, debill tating addictions among tens of thousands, uns had of thousands of people if it doesnt kill them, they eventually go on to drugs, Illegal Drugs that are produced, fentanyl and others that are produced in transative from mexico. So we have to get our arms around that problem legal and i think thats a high priority for our government, theyre doing that now. And then on gun parts, which these gun parts people getting around u. S. Regulations and u. S. Law, i know were big believers in the second amendment, but this gun part loophole is a way that the narcotic os can literally outgun Law Enforcement. And i think we need to look at ways to address that problem, close that loop. Does anyone from the outside want to add on that. Tomorrow i go to mexico to talk about the cost of crime. I remember. Just for those who havent seen it, i recommend the Interamerican Development bank did a study in february. The cost of crime trance National Organized Crime its about 1. 5 gdb. For this reason tft its 3. 5 . Think about the opportunity cost and more important fli mexico its structural. Its literally the levels of impunity they teach people to run away from police not to denounce theyve been a victims of a crime. And they are making steps in terms of changing the way that crimes are tried and this idea of a generation thats going to take. But theyre also trying to deal with consumption which is something that they never really had seen before and then trying to deal with these precursor drugs, which are fentanyl, all the chemical precursers. So there are ways you think about the rhetoric portrayed by the media where are we have trong operational relationship on counternarcotics, Border Control and counterterrorism issues because we didnt talk about during the panel today the fear of what we call special interest aliens coming and using the saij same pathways to come through and more importantly cross into our country. But its interesting, so if you for go look at the a tax in belgium for example, would you see what the terrorist networks did is they actually tapped into the criminal networks to get in their documents and their weapons. So and of korgs in columbia we saw a convergence of terrorism and criminal activity. So one shouldnt assume that it cant happen again in some way. In other pathways of criminality, right. I think not that we need to be paranoid about it but that we need to understand its the possibility i think is thanks to u. S. Training and technical assistance, they actually caught a sa mall wloi had had multiple identity whos was on the no fly list. He was crossing panna ma into costa rica just about two months ago and they used buy ometrics. So its an interesting question about how you can get multiple passports and this is gentleman his Fake Passports from our favorite city, pair kwa, and had come through and entered tloou through on a plane from brazil, came in the region. So its interesting to see, youre going to aer is ves provider, not necessarily an ofishs nad doe of your version of terrorist thought or ideology. Right. True. Thats actually a good way to look at hezbollah. And actually knowledge my coauthor on the section of iran his report, is a iran hezbollah expert and the way he described it hezbollah is as a service proefrd. He says if you look at transorganizational crime as a pathway, hezbollah holds smftd tolls on that highway especially ones that go out to europe through after cand middle east. And hezbollah has a tremendous network. Theyve gotten good at using different types of trade Money Laundering system, commodity Money Laundering system. And they pretty much control the whole system. So in that sense hezbollah when you talk about crimeterror convergence hezbollah is a good example of that. Because they do a tremendous amount of activity from 3450i7bing to trafficking but theyre fundamentally a terrorist organization. I think was the senator who mentioned a couple hezbollah operatives that got arrested in panama not too long ago. If you look into the history of one of them, one of the operatives, he self admittedly said he had connectionors family connections to the bombers from the attack in bulgaria from a few years ago. Thats fundamentally trance national and i think he was the one that was specifically occasion the panama canal. So let me get through just a couple more questions from the audience because we dont want to sort of not do that. So we have a few on venezuela. One question which i think i think is pretty easy to answer which is venezuelas the center of criminal activity. Do you agree that this and issues lierk human rights make it a good subject for bipartisan action notice u. S. . And i would be surprised if anyone disagreed with that. I think thats an important part of this discussion. Its an important point, right. Is that there is a strong bipartisan consensus on this. The letter on jose luis and saying he should be investigated and sanctioned was initiated by elliot evening wills staff cosigned by jeff duncan and it was a seven democrats, seven republicans. The venezuelan legislation that talks about or the criminal at in the regime on the senate side was an initiative of ben cardin cosponsored by marco rubio. So this is an area think about washington today, this is an area where you have people who on capitol hill who have gotten smart about this issue, they got engaged in the issue and that Work Across Party Lines without, you know, without a Second Thought because precisely because they know its a crisis, they know its something that were confronting. So this is a great opportunity from the Trump Administration. I think so. To jump on this and to take yes for an answer. Any dissenting views . I would doubt it . So its interesting, lets just get through, does this is an interesting question. I dont know if anyone would be prepared to speak to it. But what role do International Banks fla policing elicit finance and is there some redesign thats needed on Bank Regulations that needs to be addressed if were going to actually get at these issues . Thats an interesting question. I am not a banking expert. Does anybody have views on this . I think that there are clearly u. S. Banking system is one of the biggest Money Laundering centers in the world and we dont do much of we dont theyre not too bothered about doing Due Diligence on your customers and things like that. I think thats an enormous problem pit think that kooumd coupled with the offshore havens that exist when you have an enormous amount of billions, hundreds of billions of dollars parked offshore in ways that are completely invisible to the outside world. And you couple and that they all have banking relationship with the United States. The way they can move their money into their system is because they have correspondent relationships with banks in the United States. And we dont on the u. S. Side care very much about cutting off the business that it would endial that. And you couple that with the other huge problem that were seeing out of latin america, this someone moving to russia and china in ways that we no long ver visibility on. So its out of our reach enzblierl its out of our reach when they figure out how do that and theyve begun to do more and more then its essentially gone. Vow this creation of this very large universe of money that is not bound or resources not bound by any of the rules that we would like to think that we are bound by. And i think thats becoming an enormous problem. Its another alternative universe. Yeah. Yeah. Very challenging. And we probably couldnt hire enough people at treasure troy get to the that, so thats a huge challenge. You can push banks and there have been some success in getting banks to acknowledge some responsibility. But usually its the ghost of doing business. Have you wells fargo and others who have paid enormous fines and they still made a profit on the illicit transaction. I think its difficult to it requires a lot of political will. Any unfired rounds from any of you that would you anything else youd like to add . Because i think we need to just on the banking piece, as a recovering investment banker myself, theres a very fundamental piece in the United States. Actually when you, as a bank, accept responsibility for laundering, in the case of hsbc, eight to seven trillion dollars in the course of two years between the u. S. And mexico. The fine in mexico is 29 million. Was 2 billion almost here in the United States. Not one banker, because its not like the bank did it, right, someone actually did it. No one did what we call the perp walk, right. Everyone guess the picture of the perp he made up, but there are no pictures of these people who have been landering for the largest banks in the world, right. So you actually take it as an institutional may culpa as opoeszed to actually bringing people to trial. Yeah. And thats a theres a way its all about how you apply the law and more importantly ask about accountability. Its very difficult for us who do representet u. S. Government you ask other countries to do that when they say actually your banks just take it as a writeoff. Right. As opposed to actually applying the law to the people who are the ones who are com police eight in the actual monitoring. That makes it challenge sfwlg im not a recovering investment banker, but i tell you i think in the areas of look at alternative systems and just new players in the gachl banking in latin america i thnk you have to look at china. China has become a really relevant player in latin america over the last decade just celebrated and theyre the number one trade partner of sirn certain countries, theyre the second second in many other countries. China has a Development Bank thats rifled p rivaled the world bank. System that the u. S. Authorities have access to. I was in laugh yet was actually a it was done in partnership with the u. S. Congress, a task force on terrorism and unconventional war but also with members of the department of treasury who are looking at things like krip toe currency asnd other new technology that they look at using and that we havent really gotten into that game yet. So i think thats i think chinas a big player that. Yes, roger. Let me just add to the rogues gallery here. I think a lot of folks think that they understand Vladimir Putin who he is and what he, you know, he wants to hes the new zar, he wants to detroit greatness of the soviet union or russian empire. And an expert plains to me that he is a gangster, hes a criminal. And he, you know, hes a criminal boss. And he has no problem working with any others of this with a similar profile to advance his interests. And so in hes the one of the principal supporters of mediro now. Hes certainly one thats holding in there. And he i think is probably going to be take a good look at at mexico and playing in mexico to so unrest which causes problems for the United States, but also tap into the criminal networks and Intelligence Networks that the criminals operate in that country right here in our in our neighborhood. So theres no end to the intending criminality. I think thats a depressing note to end on. So let me try to make it less depressing. I think it is the hope of the people who are involved in this, many of whom are also in the audience, i sigh christi mccampbell and jose cardness, theres a wloel series of everybody on this list if everybody got their report, owes we owe them a debt of gratitude for being involved and sharing their with wisdom and i think its the hope of the people that were involved in this process that policymakers will take a serious look at whats been assembled here from public sources, from the knowledge of the people who were involved, and that the tools that are being recommended and think seriously about how they put them in motion and act on them. Whether its treasury or some other element of the u. S. Government, we see this, i think, as a as an imperative, not just for the western hemisphere, countries that we share this region with, but also for ourselves and for what these criminals carry into our cities and across our border and what they deliver unto the for those of you who have children, town your children in terms of threats and criminality in our cities, drugs and other things, i think its an imperative and this group of people sat down and really gave some thought to how we begin to get at it and deconstruct these networks. And for that, we thank them. Thats it. Thanks. [ applause ] coming up live today over on cspan a discussion on allowing Foreign Police agencies easier access to social media date and what that would mean for u. S. Citizens and internet companies. Live coverage at noon eastern. And the Senate Returns from the holiday break at 3 00 eastern time. Senators will take up the nomination of naomi rou to be the head of regulatory apairs for the White House Budget Office with a confirmation vote set for 5 30 eastern. The house returns for legislative business tomorrow. Main bill on their agenda, the 2018 Defense Authorization bill setting Defense Department programs and policy for the next year. The legislation is expected on the floor by thursday and a vote as early as friday. Life coverage the house on cspan and the senate on cspan 2. Tonight on the communicators. What theyre doing there was 5g trials. And i tell what you, peter, it was gigabit fast wireless. Thats something i never thought id see in my career, into my lifetime. That is home broad band fast, thats fibber to your house fast. And its really, really exciting. Ctia president meredith at we will baker on what the fg network will look like to consumers. She also talks about the broad band in rural areas. Ms. Baker is interviewed by politicos reporter margaret hill. Whats the economic case for fiveg . If it costs that much to invest and build off the network, how do carriers make a return on that . Its going to mean 500 billion to our economy and 3 million jobs so one oufts every hundred person is going to have a fg job but only if we get it right. And that means weve got to move on spectrum and a pipeline of low, medium, and high band and weve got to get this infrastructure right. Because as we roll forward, we need to build 300,000 small cell sites in the next few years. And what a small cell looks like is maybe a pizza box. Its small and its going to be attached to everything because these are going to be much more dense networks. Theyre going to be on traffic lights and streetlights, the sides of buildings. And so what we really need, and this is really important, we need an infrastructure that rethinks how we site. Watch the communicators tonight at 8 00 eastern on cspan 2. Treasury secretary Steve Mnuchin testified on president trumps fiscal year 2018 brugt proposal for the Treasury Department and its constituent agencies. Most of the focused on programs up for cuts under the proposal. This is an hour and a half. Good afternoon. Well call this hearing to order. Thank everyone for com