Transcripts For CSPAN3 Politics Public Policy Today 20141208

The chair now recognizes the gentleman from South Carolina, mr. Wilson. On sunday both the fbi and the department of Homeland Security issued warnings to American Military personnel within the United States regarding possible threats from isil. Sadly, this comes after Homeland Security secretary jeh johnson announced, quote, that the president would have no credible information that isis is planning to attack the homeland of the United States, he said this in new york city in front of the council on foreign relations. This incredible statement by secretary johnson, preceded his unconstitutional review of illegal aliens, as a member of this committee as well as chairman of the ampled Services Subcommittee on personnel, im grateful to promote the wellbeing of members and their subcommittee on personnel, im grateful to promote the wellbeing of members and their subcommittee on personnel, im grateful to promote the wellbeing of members and their subcommittee on personnel, im grateful to promote the wellbeing of members and theme subcommittee on personnel, im grateful to promote the wellbeing of members and their families both at home and abroad. National radio talk show host today in her program chose a digital probe, restated the fbi and dhs warnings of isis threats here in america to military families and i look forward to the hearing today on how we can protect American Families from the grotesque threat of persons who seek to conduct mass murder of American Families in our country. Thank you. The chair recognizes the gentleman from virginia, mr. Connelly, for one minute. Thank you, mr. Chair, and i would hope that we guard against fasle animalses about syria. Some of the president s loudest critics of course could not quite bring themselves to support his request to retaliate in syria against the use of chemical weapons. And had the president heeded their advice a yearandahalf ago, two years ago, isil today would be better equipped and better trained because it drew that the very insurgents that the president was urging us to arm and train. I think the question is why, what motivates these men and women, especially men to join this barbaric movement. Its a very troubling question for the west and for islam itself. Secondly how are they recruited . Widely reported accounts of the use of social media, very sophisticated. Once its appealed, do we understand it. And finally, what are our options. It seems to me option number one, priority number one, is to preempt or prevent them from getting to syria. Because once they get to syria, we have a whole different set of challenges that require a whole different set of answers. So im looking forward to exploring those questions in todays hearing. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank the gentleman. The chair recognizes the gentleman from california, mr. Cook, for one minute. Thank you, mr. Chairman. You know, its a sad commentary on whats going on in the world right now. Just when you think you put down one terrorist group, theres another one that rises from the ashes and its something that underscores the fact that we must stay ever vigilant and quite frankly, we have to have a military that doesnt have its budget cut to the bone and is what is called a c1 readiness. Because you never know whats going to happen tomorrow. I have been on this planet a long time. Ted, i saw that smirk on your face. And its probably, in my opinion, the world is probably most dangerous it has ever been since i have been involved in those things. Ive been in combat, been in war and now you strive to go forward and make the world safe, not only for your country, but for your kids and your grandchildren. So thank you for having this hearing, i think this is something we cannot fall asleep on and as i said earlier, we got to be ever vij lentz. We got to find out whats going on. I appreciate our folks joining us to give us an update. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. The chair recognizes the gentleman from new york, mr. Higgins for his opening statement. The rapid conquest of a territory covering large portions of syria and iraq is in part owed to the prolific recruitment of foreign fighters, which is now in excess of 16,000, nearly half of the islamic states fighting force. Consequently the integral part of the strategy to degrade and destroy isis must be an effective plan too stem the flow of foreign fighters who not only add to the islamic states fighting strength but to also represent a serious Terror Threat when they return to their countries of origin. Of greatest concern are the roughly 2,000 foreign fighters originating in western countries, many of which would not need visas to enter the United States or europe. Until it can be properly addressed, the islamic states proficient use of social media and other mediums to continue to facilitate the recruitment and selfradicalization of these individuals. Countering these threats will require constant vigilance and enhanced coordination with our allies. I look forward to todays discussion with our witnesses and i yield back. The chair recognizes the gentleman from illinois. Thank you, mr. Chairman. On both committees to which i serve, thank you for holding this committee and to our witnesses, thank you for being here. Were bombing isis. Thats good. I wish we had started that back in january when there was only a few thousand of them. Today we are playing a lot of catchup. I recently got back from iraq a month and a half, two months ago. When i left if 09 as a pilot in the military the war was won. When i went back just a few months ago it was very devastating to see. I hope we begin to hear from this administration a strategy for syria. I echo what a lot of people have said. 200,000 dead syrians today, many of which are women and children, by the evil dictatorship of bashar al assad, which is no protector of christianity. He is an evil, bad person and the incubator of isis. The reason this rebellion exists, the reason people would even be attracted is they see isis, some people see them as the best alternative to assad. So i think it is important for us to plusup the fsa and protect them as we allow them to clear their own country out of isis. So hopefully well begin to hear that from to the administration, its been a few years, but maybe well catch some good news here soon and i yield back. The chair recognizes the gentleman from rhode island for his opening statements. Thank you, mr. Chairman and ranking members deutsche and sherman for holding todays hearing on this very important issue. The continuing threat that isil poses to International Stability is a serious concern of the United States and our allies. Addressing that threat with the comprehensive and carefully developed and thoughtful strategy must be a top priority of u. S. Foreign policy. Its our responsibility to develop a response to isils insurgency in iraq and syria that ensures all options and their consequences are kwarfully considered. Even as the administration ramps up its response with a 5. 6 billion request from the president , isil continues to attract foreign fighters, including foreign fighters from western countries. We must do all we can to stop this flow of foreign fighters into the region. As part of this effort we must examine how and why isil has successfully engaged foreign fighters and how the United States can best restrict isils access to additional fighting personnel and battle resources. I look forward to hearing the perspective of the witnesses that weve assembled on these person issues. With that i yield back, and thank you, mr. Chairman. Are there any other members on the majority side . The chair recognizes the gentlelady from florida, miss frankle, for one minute. Thank you very much for being here. I have to confess just a little bit of uneasiness of really what we should be doing with isil. But there are two issues that have been floating around in my mind that ill try to articulate, just based on some things i have read or heard and i would like to get your reaction as you go forward. One to pick up on my colleague who talked about al assad and hundreds of thousands of his own people that hes slaughtered. And causing such a many of them, thousands, to flee into owe countries such as turkey, destabilizing those countries. And there are some who willcy that isil is the enemy, the fiercest fighter against assad. So one question i would have is how do you balance going after isil, and then do youn7 outreach and community engagement. Secretary johnson is personally participating in Community Meetings in chicago, columbus, minneapolis, and los angeles that focus onuz f Community Cons and Building Trust and counter violent extre extremism. Seventh, information sharing within the u. S. Government. Dhs and our interagency partners evaluate threat data and ensure relevant information reaches dhs personnel in the field, as well as our state, local, tribal and territorial partners. Dhs, jointly with the fbi, released joint intelligence bulletins to provide context and background for them to use. Dhs and our interagency partners work continually to share information with each other about possible foreign fighters. Plp chairman, mad chairman, since 9 11 dhs and our partners in the Intelligence Community have vastly improved the fla nations ability to detect and disrupt terrorist plots. We ask for your support as we continue to adapt to emerging threats and improve our ability to keep our nation safe. Thank you very much. Were happy to answer your questions. Ill recognize myself for five minutes for some questions. The United States is conducting air strikes. How have u. S. Air strikes affected the flow of foreign fighters into syria . If it has. Perhaps a question that might be better addressed to some of our colleagues in the Intelligence Community but my sense looking at the numbers is that its hard to say at this point that what the impact is. It is relatively soon after these strikes have taken place. The numbers that we monitor, the numbers that we track are estimates at best, and so, again, i think its probably early to determine precisely what the impact is. Its obviously something, again, that our Intelligence Community is looking at, and its possible that in a classified briefing they might be able to give you their assessment. Again, from my perspective, the numbers, again, can vary for a variety of reasons. Sometimes its because we get better information from our partners. And that results in an increase in the estimate. So we dont know if its effective or not . I would say that if the issue is effective in reducing the flow of foreign fighters i would say at this point i would want to see more evidence before i come to a conclusion. Mr. Warrick do you have a different answer . No. There is an answer to that question but i think it needs to be delivered in a classified setting. Turkey seems to me, appears to be to be a complicit, to some extent of allowing foreign fighters to flow through turkey into syria. Would you weigh in on your opinion of what the government of turkey, their position is on foreign fighters going through turkey into syria . Ambassador, you be first. Mr. Chairman, turkey is a very important partner of ours in the region. We share a very important common interest with them. We have a shared interest in seeing a political settlement in syria, that removes assad. We have a shared interest in combatting the terrorist organizations that are operating in syria and iraq. We have a shared interest in dealing with the humanitarian crisis and also shared interest in promoting stability in iraq. I understand that. Thats not my question. My question is the government of turkey complicit in allowing foreign fighters to go through their country and fight for isil . I was trying to explain someu of the perspective on this problem, sir. The turks have more than a million refugees inside turkey. Turks have a 900 kilometer border. Ive been to one of those syrian camps. Theres 37 million tourist arrivals in turkey every year. 37 million. We believe turkey and weve had an extensive dialogue on this issue for some time is taking steps trying to deal with the flow of foreign fighters. Turks have added a considerable number of names to their denied entry list. Turks are working with us in trying to cut off the flow of funding that might come from oil sales to the foreign terrorist organizations. Isnt turkey buying oil from isil that eventually comes to turkey from isil . Theres considerable traffic we have discussed with the turks across the border. Again the latest information the turks are taking steps to try to deal are they buying oil from isis . If youre saying is the tu turkish government buying oil, no. Are they smuggling across the border, yes. Were trying to cut off working with the turks. The other thing i would mention is sharing of information with turkey. Were seeing much better information sharing with turkey with the United States and also with our European Partners. They are not complicit. Thats my question. Are they not xlos sit . My answer is they are not complicit. C . My answer is they are not complicio . My answer is they are not complicim . My answer is they are not complicip . My answer is they are not complicil . My answer is they are not complicii . My answer is they are not complicic . My answer is they are not complicii . My answer is they are not complicit . My answer is they are not complicit. Social media, we know, obvious recruitment is being done in a very effective manner, appears through social media. Theres the argument by some in our Law Enforcement agency not to shut down social media because thats how they track and keep up with terrorist organizations and individuals. What is your opinion on that . Doing more or less or leaving it alone, this issue of all of social media, how its effective in track iing in recruiting of terrorists to join isil. Should we be proactive to try to shut that down network, legally, of course. Or should we just do as Law Enforcement says, we want to watch this to see where these guys are going. Whats your opinion on that, ambassador and then ill get mr. Warrick and then that will be it. The issue of freedom of the internet, freedom of expression on the internet goes well beyond my responsibilities. We clearly watch very closely the use of the internet by these organizations. We have a dialogue with the service providers. In cases where the posts that are being used, used on social media accounts is perhaps, in our view contrary to the terms of service. So, again, this is a complex question, its a complicated question, goes well beyond my responsibilities. Certainly any use of the internet for illegal activities such as fundraising or incitement to violence is something we would take strong legal action against. But there are gray areas here of the use of internet and social media and the question is how one responds to that. I think we also believe that if you shut down one site you shut down one account, the chances of that popping back up somewhere else are quite high and quite great. So the other tool we use is counter messaging ourselves through the center for Strategic Counterterrorism Communications that was mentioned earlier, we try to put out counter messaging on social immediate area on the internet to push back in that way rather than simply try to take down the message they are putting out. Mr. Warrick, ill let you put that in writing since were out of time. I have to recognize the ranking member, mr. Sherman for his five minutes. Thank you. First let me clarify a statement in made towards the end of my opening statement. The state department has thousands of experts in american law. You dont particularly need more. We also have experts in international law. Those experts help us persuade western countries of the righteousness of our positions. I have been pushing on the state department for, i think the better part of a year, to hire an expert in islamic law. And the response i get is, well we hope islamic jurists will issue statements that are helpful to us and well just call them and ask them to come up with something on their own, or now and then well call a professor of islamic law, well get all the information and we dont need to hire anybody. So i animal guys that to what you would do if you were trying to persuade an american jurist. Would you contact an american jurist and just say, ply cause is just. Please come up with the legal theories that support me . Would you just rely on hiring whatever free advice you could get from a professor on the phone . Or would with you hire somebody who is an expert in american law to try to get an american jurist to try to issue a statement helpful to you. It is incredibly important that we get islamic scholars, experts and jurists to issue rulings adverse to isis and favorable to the United States. It is about time that the state department hire its first islamic legal expert to work full time on that. Maybe a couple. And its time that at least somebody be hired at the state department not because they went to a fancy american school, or because they did well on the Foreign Service exam. Mr. Ambassador, Security Council resolution 2178 requires u. N. Members to criminalize those who go to syria and iraq to fight with the extremists. Have our european allies, particularly visa waiver countries, complied with that . If i may just comment briefly on your first point on islamic lawyers, islamic scholars. Can i ask the ambassador to move the mic closer to him. I have limited time so ill ask you to address my question first. About resolution 2178 from the ÷ we have asked our partners and european agencies to engage with these countries on implementing 2178. Can you provide for the record a list of which visa waiver countries are in compliance, which have promised to become in compliance and which are not in compliance that have no very serious promise to us . Weve had two months since the resolution was passed. Legislative process is many countries not just us. Im just asking for a chart. I would be happy to provide a list of countries. R5k÷ their legislative process may be slow but i know your staff will be fast and get a chart for our record and well identify those countries. Likewise if you can provide a chart of islamic, particularly arab states, particularly the five the gentleman from illinois identified as the major senders of foreign fighters, whether they have passed laws that would criminalize going to syria or iraq and fighting with al nusra or isis. I would be happy to do that. I assume that, i take it from your answer that were doing everything that we can to push our friends in the arab world and europe there are countries that have already in place, as we do, laws that prohibit that criminalize, for example are there any countries that have said no well just let these folks come back and monitor them . No country has taken such a cavalier attitude toward fighters. There are countries that do believe that some of the fighters who come back have been disillusioned by their experience, participated in no terrorist activities while they were in syria, and they believe that in this case those fighters should be monitored rather than incarcerated. That is a decision that those countries make based upon the evidence. Is that in compliance with u. N. Security Council Resolution 2178, that view . Im not a lawyer myself. I have to take a look at that issue. There are different approaches how you deal with returning fighters, particularly ones who have not carried out any evidence look, i dont care if youre just peeling potatoes in the mess. If youre part of the isis army, you belong in prison until this war against islam sick extremism is over. That seems to be what u. N. Security Council Resolution 2178 said and i hope your chart will be that youll add to your chart a list of those countries that have told us that we do not think we should criminalize those of our citizens and residents who went to isis, joined the army but say they didnt actually kill anybody. Also an issue, sir, of being able to prove in a court of law this kind of activity. Thats fine. People on the ground in syria to come to a courtroom to testify. So, again, i think our partners use different tools depending on what they know about a particular individual in the case. Thats all i would say. Chair recognizes the gentlelady from florida. Thank you so much, mr. Chairman. Isils reach into the United States has been documented. We also know that isil is known to be tech savvy, as weve discussed, used social media tools to its advantage to help recruit foreign fighters to its cause and weve seen isil graffiti here in d. C. Pictures of individuals holding the groups symbol in front of u. S. Landmarks, including the white house. Mr. Warrick, you testified that dhs is, quote, unakwar ware of specific credible threat to the u. S. Homeland from isil, end quote and following up on what mr. Wilson said in his opening statement, on sunday dhs and fbi issued a joint bulletin urging our Service Members to scrub their social media accounts, to use caution with their posts. Is there a specific threat to our service men and women most of whom who are stationed here in america. Ill have you hold that thought on funding, isil is known to finance its operations from a variety of sources, including illicit oil sales, extortion, organized crime, selling of ancient artifacts, donations from outside sources. Weve seen terrorist groups like hezbollah fund their terror activities through the sale of drugs, often from sources in the western hemisphere. What are we doing to target isils funding . What kind of isil collaboration with drug cartels is there any evidence of that, especially here in our hemisphere and if so what are we doing to fight this. And lastly on our allies, in order to defeat isil, were going to need full cooperation with our Coalition Partners especially those from the middle east. The ministers of the gcc the Gulf Cooperation Council have scheduled multiple meetings to discuss the ongoing threat of isil and possible ways to fight this terrorist entity and just yesterday, Bahrain Foreign ministers announced the gulf states are setting up a joint military command based in saudi arabia to not only counter the isil threat but the threat from iran as well. Working with the gulf nations to fight this radical islam ideology and is this joint command a signal that they may be willing to put boots on the ground in syria. Thank you very much, madam chairman. Let me start on that and then obviously ambassador bradtke will have things t the last part. First ill do this in reverse order. On the isil funding issue that question actually probably would be best addressed to the Treasury Department under secretary cohen and assistant secretary glazer are working very intensively in efforts to try to address the isil funding issue. Dhs plays a small role in that in terms of krim investigations in terms of funding activities is there a specific threat im working backwards. On that one let me go back to what we said over the weekend. There were statements, public statements by isil in september to the effect of calls for attacks against u. S. Service members, u. S. Officials and members of the Intelligence Community. We are not aware of any specific threat saying that at a particular time there would be an attack on a particular kien service member, but we really do want to be able to have members of the state and local Law Enforcement and members of the military community and their qr families take certain reasonable precautions to further reduce the risk of any types of events taking place. Were very mindful of the techniques of the use of social media that you allege that you described and that isil is able to use and obviously they are able to survey social media as well thank you. He ambassador, on the issue of our allies, are they fighting back this radical islam ideology and do you have any info about whether they are willing to put boots on the ground in syria . Well, we have a very Close Partnership with the countries in the gulf. They are members of this coalition that i mentioned of 60 countries. General allen has worked to put together. A number of them have carried out air strikes in iraq. Were getting that kind of assistance from them. Were working closely with them to cut off funding. I was in kuwait and qatar over the summer. Qatar has just pass ad new law on private charities which will try to be more effective in regulating the flow of funding in cases where individuals contribute money thinking it was going to some humanitarian cause. It was ending up going to a terrorist organization. They are taking steps in that regard. They are working with us on the counter messaging front. There was just a conference in kuwait that undersecretary of state stengel went to where we talked about what were doing on counter messaging, how we are working through the center for Strategic Counterterrorism Communications. A number of our partners in the gulf are interested in setting up similar operations perhaps or having a regionally based counter messaging operation. We have a Close Partnership. Thank you. My time is up. Is the graffiti weve seen in d. C. And other cities are those legitimate or do you think that they are not . That would be a question that i think would be better addressed either by fbi or domestic Law Enforcement. They would be able to help you with that. Chair recognizes the gentleman from florida mr. Deutsch for five minutes. Thank you. Ambassador bradtke could you pick up where you left off on the message of counter messaging. On the conference that just took place in the senate, can you speak in a little more detail about the efforts that were undertaking, our friends from around the world who are sharing those efforts with us, and how do we determine whether were being successful, and is there any evidence at this point that we are . Let me same someone who has worked for a long time in the state department, United States government, i find the center for Strategic Counterterrorism Communications a very interesting and really unique operation. It is an effort to push back in dry direct, very blunt forthright way, putting out some very tough messages on the internet, on social media. The themes the kinds of themes that are used include putting on social media the atrocities that al qaeda and isil are carrying out so people can see the true nature of isil. They highlight fact that the main victims of isil are muslims, so that people understand that this is not a way of helping other muslims, that, in fact, these organizations are killing other muslims. They talk about what isil and other groups are doing to local populations, the sunni tribes, others. So, again, very powerful, very direct messages. Some of the numbers in the last period of time perhaps the last 10 or 12 months, they have done 25 videos. Theyve put out more than a 1,000 antiisil poster tweets. The way we have some sense if this is having an impact there are two ways. One, you get a number of hits on the sites, the number of followers to the csccs operations. The other way is the efforts by isil and these groups to take down the csccs sites through hacking. So they are obviously worried that our message is getting out. They are obviously worried that enough, they actually want to take action to do something about it. Other countries have been very interested in what were doing. Weve had a number of countries ranging from belgium and france to some of our north african partners who have come to visit the csccs operations here in washington. Ur partnen. And other places are looking at whether they can do something similar. The European Union is interested in trying to get its own counter messaging up and running. The eu is providing funding for the uk which has a counter messaging program to try to explain and share its experience with other eu member states. So, again, this whole area of counter messaging is very active, and my own sense is while we cant know for sure whether some individual has seen something on our website and has said thats the true nature of isil and i wont go to syria, but the fact that we get hits on the site, the fact that the site has been subject of hacking by these groups indicates to me that theres some effectiveness. Can you share how many times videos have been viewed, how many hits there have been either on the posts, how many tweets have been viewed . I would be happy to get that for the record. So i have the latest information. Okay. And is there you said that the uk has a center. Is the work that were doing meant strictly who are we focusing on . And clearly i would imagine the message would be slightly different, targeting an australian audience than a belgium audience or america. Thats why we think its important other countries develop a capability. The cscc is doing this in its efforts in three languages. Arabic, of course. Erdu because of its messaging that goes beyond the syrian iraq front. The english messaging is a more recent development. But as you say, there is need for other, for example, french. We know the fighters from belgium, france, and thats why we think its important that other countries also develop this capability. In my remaining seconds, mr. Warrick, this may be something that youll be able to respond to in your discussions with some of my colleagues. If not, if you could respond in writing after. Your testimony about the efforts by the secretary to increase visa preclearance at overseas airports. I would very much like to know what the plan is, what airports airports weve targeted by when and how many weve already put in place today. Thank you very much. Actually thats a question we would prefer not to address in an open session. Youll appreciate the sensitivity not just in terms of discussions with foreign partners but we have no intention of laying out a road map of where we are not, because of what effect that might have on the thinking of our adversaries. In a closed setting we can get someone who has a great deal more information on that. I was only following up on countries identified in your testimony. But, i what we have is obviously a public matter, and the people see our officers in their uniforms. Okay. Thank you. I yield back. Chair recognizes the gentleman from South Carolina mr. Wilson. Thank you. Thank you, chairman64mz roslehn for this joint subcommittee hearing today. This is very important. Both of your testimony has been very enlightening. Im very concerned. The American People need to know as the president i believe is ignoring the jihadist threat that abc news of all people monday night reported the day before the u. S. Launched its biggest air blitz against the terrorist group in iraq and syria in late september, isis spokesman Abu Mohammed Adnani called upon muslims in the u. S. And europe to attack members of the military. The direct quote, do not ask for anyones advice and do not seek anyones verdict. Kill the believer. Whether he is a civilian or military for they have the same ruling. Both of them are disbelievers. Both of them are considered to be waging war. End of quote. Adnani said in an audio speech posted online on september the 21st. Mr. Warrick, what is your current threat assessment of an attack by domestic jihadists or foreign fighters on the u. S. Homeland . Thank you very much. That statement was posted in social media by a foreign by a foreign participant attributing it to adnani, as you said. Obviously he was not in the homeland when the statement was made. But he was intending that his message reach out to prospective sympathizers here in the United States. There are obviously a number of things that dhs tries to do to prevent people from becoming radicalized to violence. This is through the Community Efforts which i addressed in my testimony. In addition there are sorry steps that other Law Enforcement organizations like the fbi do in terms of trying to track activity and where there are steps especially towards foreign travel that prospective sympathizers make and gets on the radar screen of people at dhs. There are a number of measures to address people who might be sympathetic to that kind of rad comrade callizing to violence message. The grotesque nature of that statement, along with people carrying signs in english in say tehran, death to israel, death to america, the creed of hamas, the American People need to know, and that is that we value death more than you value life. This is serious. And im just very concerned that the president is focused on other items, i. E. Congressional campaigns and has been missing the danger. Based on the bulletin that was issued by dhs and fbi regarding soldiers online media accounts, what level of danger do you feel for our military and our military families . As i said theres no specific credible threat targeting specific people in a specific place but we think its appropriate that people are prudent. And that social media postings should not describe military operational activities, nor should they describe Law Enforcement activities or other measures. This is something that we just caution people in our own organization and indeed in our military to be prudent in what they post on social media. But for people who take those reasonable steps, its obviously very difficult for foreign fighters in syria to get to the United States and my department is working to make it even harder for that to happen. So, what we really do is qw recruited by or attracted to wm isil in syria come roughly from a handful of countries mostly arab countries, is that not true . Many of the foreign fighters come from north africa, from arab countries thats correct. It just i mean maybe you do or dont subscribe to i think the premise behind mr. Shermans question, but as the United States moves forward, it just seems to me that the state Department Needs to be promoting leadership from within that has particular focus on this region since thats what were dealing with. And i mean that without, with no disrespect because sometimes somebody can function very wells peshmerga and the Kurdish Community which seems to be one of the military allies we have in the region and has a military capacity but needs to be reinforced. Why not . Why didnt you talk about that . If you will permit me, mr. Connolly, i do feel i want to say a word or two about i have to ask you to move closer to the mic. Its very hard to hear you. Thank you. I would like to say a word or two about your initial comments. I was happily retired, mr. Connolly. I saw that. Was asked by senior officials in the state department to come back and take this job. I was asked to take this job not because of my expertise in arabic or countries in the middle east. I was asked to take this job because there was a belief that in 40 years of working for the state department i was able to deal with a wide variety of countries, that i could conduct dialogues with those countries on an effective basis and that i could draw on the many experts in the state department who are experts on those part of the world. This is not an effort i undertake by myself. This is the effort i have the support of many people within the department of state. I have found as ive traveled ive been in morocco, tunisia, uae, qatar, kuwait, that i dont think the fact that i dont speak arabic has been a hindrance. Ive had meetings with leaders of islamic communities and countries that ive visited and the fact that im not an expert on islam has not prevented for example when i met the leader of the Islamic Community in malaysia, i had a very good discussion with him about steps they can take to put out the word about isil, about isils not being a representative of islamic values. I dont feel the discussion i had with him was in any way hindered by the fact that im not an islamic mr. Ambassador and i completely agree, and thats why i meant what i said. Without disrespect. I honor your career and i know you came back. But i think mr. Sherman has a point longterm. This region is unraveling. It is a longterm challenge, if not threat, to us, and to the west. It is profoundly disturbing whats happening and we have to have expertise in the region. Thats not a comment about you. Theres no disagreement. Okay. I believe there are some really brilliant new generation diplomats. Good. And i who are coming up through the ranks. Who are serving in some of our regions now. I repeat i honor you for your service. I meant no disrespect at all. I was trying to reinforce his point. Now i beg you to address the kurdish question because were running out of time. The reason i didnt get more deeply into that is that its not really in my area of Partner Engagement on syrian foreign fighters. It is one of the lines of effort which i know alan is pursuing. I mentioned the five lines. One of those lines is support for our partners on the ground and that absolutely applies to the kurds. I would hope we have another round we can get into sort of what has worked because i am troubled sometimes by some of the conversation were having about okay when they return to a given country, what do we do . And it almost sounds like deprogramming from a cult. And i dont i dont think thats going to work, given the numbers. And so i would be interested in hearing from both of our witnesses about, well, are there examples of things that have worked in a preventing people from going, and, unfortunately, if we fail on that, helping to reintegrate them in a genuine, successful way when, and if, they come back. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I know my time is up. Chair recognizes the gentleman from california, colonel cook. Thank you, mr. Chair. Ambassador, i wanted to ask you about the role of hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood in terms of perhaps facilitating the information on people recruitment and some of the smuggling activities, if you had any insight at all from a diplomatic standpoint. Specifically i do not, sir, no. No personal feelings on that in terms of enabling them . I dont have any basis on which to give you a good answer, sir. Okay. Let me switch gears a little bit. And the chairman was talking about the relationship with turkey. And i think a number of us on this committee and the House Armed Services committee are a little bit very, very nervous about turkey, and its reluctance to have strike aircraft be flown from incirlik. And the other base that we have is obviously in qatar, and its almost like were giving them a free pass. Those two countries there. That were very, very nervous about their maybe activities in supporting isis, and some of the other do you have any comments at all about the turkish situation in terms of being somewhat of a squishy ally in my opinion a member of nato and Everything Else and yet i just dont trust them. As i said earlier i think turkey is a very important part partner of ours. It is a member of the coalition. Are we giving them a free pass on this . We just had Vice President biden in turkey, general allen visited we had an ongoing discussion with turkey about what we can do on the border between turkey and syria. Those discussions are going on. At this point that is as much as i can say, sir. I understand that. Every time the question comes up of smuggling and black market activities and who is buying the oil and everything, couple of countries come up and its like they get a free pass. And sooner or later were is there anybody thats reevaluating who are our true allies and who arent and its almost like its the military stockholm syndrome because we have two bases in those key countries. We dont pressure them. Thats basically what im asking. Are they getting a bit of a free pass on this . I would not say they are getting a free pass. Okay. Let me switch gears. Weve had a long and open dialogue with them and those discussions about what you were talking about, those discussions continue and well have to see where that goes. Okay. We talked about a lot of these foreign fighters coming through turkey. How about through some of the other areas, turkey is one area. Do they also come through i notice theres a large preponderance of the group from jordan. Are these primarily from the refugee camps . Is that where theyre being recruited . The numbers of foreign fighters coming from other countries are much smaller than turkey. Turkey is the primary transit point. Iraq, jordan, lebanon have lesser numbers. And we, obviously, in the case of iraq and jordan their efforts to curb the flow of foreign fighters. Lebanon as well although thats somewhat more difficult situation. It goes beyond what i could talk about in this session as well. All right. The last question i had was in regards to those coming from russia, and i suspect this relates to chechnya. Is russia facilitating their leaving the country and going to another area simply because of the problems that they are going to cause internally in russia . Im not aware of any evidence they are facilitating the chechen fighters to leave russia to get rid of them, as you said. Okay, thank you very much. A yield back. Thank you, gentleman. Chair recognizes the gentleman from new york, mr. Higgins. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I think we need to forget for a moment from where these foreign fighters are coming, and really ask the fundamental question, which were not asking, and that is, why theyre coming. Isis their most potent recruitment tool is momentum, its success. Its the conquest of territory covering large portions of syria and iraq. Isis ability to sustain their momentum in their territorial conquest will determine their future recruitment from the region and from the west. Why is isis been so effective in their territorial taking strategy . Because theres been no effective countervailing force to confront them. You know, the United States spent 26 billion building up an iraqi army and the first test was the iraqi army ran. Not only did we not put up a front to isis but also they took our weaponry that we paid for over many, many years. So the New York Times reported this morning that there was a major deal between the abadi government in baghdad and the kurdish leadership in erbil. And that was a permanent, longterm deal, to provide 17 of the National Budget to the kurdish region. In addition, a billion dollars to pay for the salaries and weapons for the peshmerga. In the kurdistan area. The kurdish army or the peshmerga, otherwise known as those who confront death, is estimated to be between 250 and 357,000 fighters. Theyre experienced. Theyre an effective army. Theyre fleuristic. Theyre proven allies of the United States, in assisting us in the invasion of iraq. They fought side by side with the american troops. They helped the United States capture saddam hussein. Isis is estimated to be between 31,000 and 41,000 fighters. This seems to be a major change in the dynamic as it relates to iraqs ability to push back isis. I dont know if you caught the news of this deal this morning, but i would like you to comment on it because i think unless and until you can break the momentum of isis, doesnt matter where foreign fighters are coming from, the fact that theyre coming is most important. And the success, the momentum that has been sustained by isis over a long period of time is the only reason, is the only reason you have foreign fighters coming to iraq and to syria to fight, regardless of where theyre coming from. So i think this is a major breakthrough and id like to hear your comments on, you know, how this changes the dynamic in the region. That question would take me well beyond my responsibilities, mr. Higgins, and i think its better addressed to my colleagues in our Near Eastern Bureau who are the experts in these areas. I gather there will be a subsequent hearing where they will testify. Again im not an expert on the kurds, im not the expert on the iraq situation. But i want to come back to the point you make. Yes, clearly the perceived success of isis is one reason some people have been attracted to fight for them. The situation in syria itself has been a powerful magnet what does isis depict on social media . Their success in taking over critical territory. So, if you forget about the median, if you take away the fundamental, you know, recruitment, the emphasis, the success of isis, they dont really have a story to tell because a lot of this is about the narrative. I interrupted you. Continue. I was agreeing with you that thats one very important element on why people are attracted to fight for isis. But there are other factors, as well. There is the situation in syria itself, where isis, al nusra, made very powerful use of the idea that they are defending sunnis inside syria. Again, thats something we try to push back against. There are other factors ranging from the idea in some cases of economics. Ive been in countries where, where the fighters from those countries, the primary motivation is actually the idea that they can escape situations. Let me claim back my time and respectfully ambassador, because its a very important point thats being missed and that is combatting, confronting effectively isis and iraq helps us and the Free Syrian Army more effective confront isis in syria. I dont think theres any disagreement on that point, sir. I yield back. Chair recognizes the gentleman from florida, mr. Santos for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Ambassador, has the state department cancelled the passports of any u. S. Citizens who have joined terrorist groups in syria and iraq . To my knowledge the state department has not cancelled any passports. Why is that . We had secretary kerry here a couple of months ago he said he has authority under existing law, i think hes right about that, some of our allies have taken steps to cancel passports. Whats the reasoning behind not doing that. I ask that the director of fbi was on 60 minutes several weeks ago, maybe a couple of months ago by now and he was asked about people we identified as joining isis or joining the al nusra front, and could they come back to the United States. He was asked. He said, well, if they have a valid passport theyre entitled to return. A lot of my constituents were really floored by that. They would say, you go and you choose jihad, you leave america behind, youre waging jihad over there, yet you have now an entitlement to come back, simply because you have a valid passport. And were not really going to do much. I guess they said we would track them. But that struck me and a lot of my constituents as insufficient. So how does the state department handle this issue . Youre well correct, sir, as secretary kerry said, he does have the authority to revoke passports. And this is something we would only do in relatively rare and unique circumstances because of the importance for average americans of the freedom to travel. We would only do obviously an isis fighter would be an extreme circumstance if theyre cutting off americans heads. So i just want to make sure we would only do it also in consultations with Law Enforcement authorities. And we have not yet had any requests from Law Enforcement authorities to cancel the passports of isis or foreign fighters. So again we have the authority. It is one tool. We do have other tools to use as well in this regard. No, i understand. We only do it in consultation. Mr. Warrick, so if a known terrorist comes back to the United States they are quote being tracked by Law Enforcement what does that entail and how can we be sure that they will not commit a lone wolf attack, for example . Congressman, if we have indications that someone on the nofly list is trying to fly back to the United States, we would deny them boarding. If we have the authority to do so, or we would recommend even to a Foreign Government that they or the airline deny such a person the right to get on an airplane to fly to the United States. If someone shows up at the United States, and theres indications that that person has been a foreign fighter in syria it would be referred to the fbi. And then it would be a matter for Law Enforcement. We would have the ability at the border to ask any questions that were necessary and appropriate. We would have the ability and the authority to inspect their luggage, inspect their personal possessions, in order to determine whether they were or were not a foreign fighter who had been fighting with isil in syria. Anything like this i can assure you is taken extremely seriously. The notion were going to let somebody into the United States who is a foreign fighter just to have them monitored, sir, that is not what were going to be working on. I think his comment, maybe he didnt express himself well. I think that was not how would what happened with moner muhammad abu shawlah, he was a u. S. Citizen from florida, he went over, trained with al nusra front in syria and then according to the New York Times came back to the United States for a time period, and then chose to return to syria, and he committed a Suicide Attack in syria. Was that he just we didnt have any intelligence on him . Is that how he was able to do that . To go over, train with al nusra, then come back here to the United States unimpeded . The intelligence that he had been fighting with isil was only developed after he had departed. And certainly obviously, you know, its unfortunate he chose the path that he did. Had he come back into the United States there would have been measures taken in his specific case based on the status that he had at the time we learned that he had joined isil. Ambassador, my final question is, a couple of weeks ago it was reported in the wall street journal that the president wrote a personal letter to the ayatollah chamonix in iran, stressing according to the article that there was a mutual interest between the United States and iran with respect to fighting isis in iraq. And just as somebody who served in iraq and saw, you know, iran and iranian backed terror groups i mean they killed hundreds of u. S. Service members, and so that was something that i that i flinched at. But let me ask you, do we consider the iranians to be a partner of any sort in terms of fighting isis, even if justin baghdad area or throughout the region . I can say from my point of view i dont consider iranians to be partners in the efforts that were under taken. Thank you. I yield back. Chair recognizes the gentleman from rhode island. Mr. Cicilline for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman and thank you to the witnesses. Ambassador, could you talk for a moment about what the impact is of foreign fighters, how they are being used . Are they engaged in actually the military conflict and suicide bombings, or are they being used in propaganda videos . What is actually the impact of the foreign fighters and whats the magnitude of the presence of those fighters relative to the Indigenous People . Again, some of this is information that probably could be better shared in a classified setting but let me share what i can here, my overall impressions from the work that ive been doing. And some of this is drawn from the work that academic experts are doing, some of it is drawn from analysis that comes from inside the u. S. Government. The first distinction i would make is that isil has been more willing to take on foreign fighters. Al nusra, which is the al qaeda affiliate, has been somewhat less willing, and more selective, more careful about the foreign fighters that they have brought on. You have first that distinction. The foreign fighters have been used in a variety of ways. Some of them, and this is a little bit different than the foreign fighters in the case of afghanistan and iraq. Very typically, those two conflicts, the primary use of foreign fighters was suicide bombers. Now theres a perception although some are used as suicide bombers, that theyre more valuable, that they may have skills that can be used, whether its skills involving social media, whether it is skills involving the repair and maintenance of equipment, whether its medical or other skills. I think they are being put to use in those areas, as well as being used as fighters themselves, and im talking here about isil. The other very disturbing thing that weve seen and academics have a man named peter newman who has done some very good analysis of foreign fighters, he has concluded that foreign fighters are often used for some of the most distasteful if thats the right word things that isil is doing. If you noticed, for example the beheadings. These are apparently being carried out by someone with a british accent, a uk person. The analysis that peter newman has of this is because foreign fighters come to syria they have no real attachment, they dont speak arabic, they are anxious to impress isil, anxious to impress the organizations and they are willing to do things that the local recruits will not do, so weve seen that which i think is a very disturbing thing about the foreign fighters. Thank you. I know some prior colleague referenced u. N. Resolution 2178. There was not only the creation of a new policy but there was a set of protocols and a framework that was created as a result of that. Are we is that a successful and useful tool . What is the status of that . I mean that imposes an obligation on countries to undertake serious efforts to prevent the, you know, the ability of foreign fighters to transit. So, what is the current status of that . As i was saying earlier, 2178 is a legallybinding resolution which requires countries to criminalize a variety of activities related to foreign fighters including ones they have not perhaps previously criminalized. Ive just come back from again, indonesia, where their counterterrorism law criminalized domestic terrorism, because they never had a problem with people carrying out terrorist attacks outside of malaysia. They are now looking at how to fix that law to deal with terrorists who might go to Training Camps outside of indonesia. So countries are very much looking at that resolution, and trying to see where the gaps in their own legislation are. And i think it would be useful for us to have a sense of where countries are in meeting those obligations. So maybe you could follow up with the committee on that. Ive already committed to doing that and id be happy to do that. Finally i want to turn to turkey. I know you have said that they are not complicit although i think its clear they have not been an enthusiastic, wonderful, reliable partner in this effort. I mean just last week there were several foreign fighters who traveled through turkey. So are they, in fact, assisting us, both in sharing intelligence, in counter counterterrorism efforts to really stop the flow of foreign fighters . You keep saying theyre an important partner. I think we recognize they have value if they act the right way. But there are real questions, i think, about what theyre actually doing on the ground with us. Again, if you want a Detailed Analysis of exactly what our cooperation with the turks, you probably need to do that in a classified session. I would say the following, we have seen increasing steps by turkey to cut off the flow of oil, to stop the flow of foreign fighters, to get better control of their border and the information sharing we have with the turks has been improved. Thank you. I yield back, mr. Chairman. Thank the gentleman. Chair recognizes the gentleman from illinois, mr. Kinzinger. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And again thank you for putting this together and to the witnesses, thank you for being here. I appreciate it. Let me just ask you both if you can just or whoever is better advised to answer this. Im sure i wasnt here for part of the hearing im sure you guys explained it. But just explain to me briefly, very briefly, what is our policy in sirria in what are we doing there . Again, im not here as the administration spokesman. You are kind of the administration guy right now and it says youre the Partner Engagement on syria foreign fighters. Thats my area of responsibility. How were working with partners to deal with the foreign fighter problem. It is not to make or explain or articulate our entire policy. But youve been briefed on our policy in syria . Otherwise youre in like a tremendous our policy and ill give you the one sentence answer is to bring about a political settlement which would provide Syrian People an opportunity to have a democratic future without assad in power. Okay. I like the line. I mean, i do. Ill point out that, in fact, during the discussion of the red line, the infamous red line a year ago i was one of the vocal supporters of the need to enforce that red line. And there was a lot of discussion about an offramp for assad during that time period. You know, lets give him money and send him somewhere else. Right . Lets get him out of government. It was the failure of enforcing that red line that i have not heard articulated a single serious proposal to get him out of office now. I agree toppling him by force is not the best answer. The best is a peaceful transition to maintain the state. But it is what it is right now. So you do engage with fsa elements, am i right, in terms of being involved with foreign fighter . I do not, no. Who in the state does any of that . Because obviously fsa would be part of our, as part of the counterisis, if thats our strategy, would obviously have to be involved in the foreign fighter, and they would obviously be on the front line of why are these people being recruited. Where does that connection happen so if youre the foreign fighter guy, where does the my task, my responsibilities, things ive been asked to do are to pursue a diplomatic strategy with our foreign partners. Our countforeign countries on fn fighters. I dont engage directly with the syrian opposition. Ambassador rubenstein is our envoy for that. Certainly others in the state department are dealing with this issue. Others in the pentagon in terms of the military and our intelligent agencies also but i personally do not deal with it. Okay so then if youre going to let me ask you this. Why is it that isis is attracting foreign fighters, versus foreign fighters coming to fsa, you know, al nusra front. Those kinds of groups. What is it about isis that attracts. Is it just the jihadism. What is it . That youve seen. I think its partly the discussion i was having earlier. Its the perception that they are successful. Right. Perception that joining them is a way of trying to combat assad. In some cases the way they have marketed if thats the right word themselves as being a place where you can come and you can be involved in this adventure, and thats that is one of the perceptions. It is their declaration of a caliphate which has attracted people who misunderstand exactly what isil is doing and what this means. So these are some of the factors that have caused isil to be attracting foreign fighters. I agree with you. I think thats right. I think success breeds success. You look at ive seen some of the isis propaganda and its powerful. Looks like, you know, if youre a young person, in your teens and youre looking for something fun to do they make it took fun. Come here and do whatever you want to do, be with a bunch of guys that are out pushing this idea of jihadism and the caliphate, and you can see that. I think my concern and youre not the guy to talk about this evidently but my concern is the message weve been sending for years about the Free Syrian Army is quite the opposite. These are the people that we actually want to be emboldened. These are the people that we want to be part of a postassad syria. And instead the message we send, and we have a lot of members of congress that question, you know, basically say theyre no different than isis which is actually offensive if you met any of these folks. Sure, as anywhere in a battlefield youre going to have allegiances switch, but the other thing is, you know, if youre somebody looking to overthrow assad, what is attracting you to the fsa . Theres no nofly zone over their territories as of yet. Theres been a lot of talk that the United States is helping to train and equip but you really havent seen it. And now the discussion is and our newfound strategy that we may train a few thousand fighters over the next year, i mean, that would not attract anybody. I agree with you on that. And i hope, im not going to go past my time, but i hope that this administration really wrestles with the issue of syria, and understands youre not going to defeat isis until you take care of the syria problem. It is the incubator of the problem. With that, thank you for your testimony and ill yield back. The chair recognizes the gentleman from florida, mr. Grayson for five minutes. Thank you. Mr. Warrick, is joining isis a crime under u. S. Law . Certainly giving Material Support to isis is a violation of federal statutes, yes. Is that true of both u. S. Citizens and nonu. S. Citizens . Well, i mean, the question of whether a foreign citizen violates foreign law no, u. S. Law. Oh, u. S. Law . We have been known to prosecute foreign nationals who are in the United States for violation of Material Support statutes, yes. All right. So lets be specific about this. Lets talk, for instance, about the 26 irish residents or residents of ireland who apparently have joined isis. What would happen if one of them traveled to the United States . Well, im not going to get into exact hypotheticals. I do want to say, however, that where somebody has been identified as a foreign fighter fighting for isil in syria and its possible to watch list such a person, theyre going to be, in all likelihood, on a nofly list or another list of the u. S. Government that is going to attract a great deal of attention before theyre allowed to get on board an airplane to the United States. Again, lets be as specific as we can. Tell us regarding the nofly list, what would that mean . Theyd never be able to come to the United States, right . Well, they wouldnt be able to fly here. The nofly list obviously doesnt apply to other modes of transportation. However, i can assure you that there are equal or equivalent measures in place so that somebody on the nofly list is almost certainly not going to be allowed entry into the United States if they come by cruise ship or if they fly to canada, for example, which they may not be able to do if theyre noflyd for us and they were to try, lets say, to come across the u. S. canadian border. What are the names of those lists . Im sorry . What are the names of the lists that youre referring to, not the nofly list but the nocrosstheborder list . Oh. Well, these are all systems managed by the terror screening center, which is an arm of the fbi but includes participation by dhs and others. Dhs, however, has the authority to make admission decisions when someone presents him or herself at a border or at an airport. And so we have the authority to refuse someone entry to the United States if theyre deemed inadmissible. There are specific grounds in the immigration and nationality act that allow us to say someone who is reasonably suspected to be a terrorist or to have given Material Support to terrorist groups, that that person can be denied entry into the United States. And i can assure you, congressman, we exercise that authority when its appropriate for us to do so. So regardless of whether theyre in a country that requires a visa or not for nationals of that country and the United States, theyre simply not going to be let in, right . If they meet the standard of immigration and nationality act, were going to comply with the law, i assure you. By not letting them in, right . There are a host of footnotes and exceptions that im not going to go into in open session, but essentially no, were not going to do that. Okay. Now lets talk about the u. S. Citizens, the ones with u. S. Passports, reputed to be 130 of them. What do we know about them . Do we know their names, for instance . You actually should ask that question of the fbi. But when they give numbers, which i would describe only as greater than 100, the numbers that you see on this chart are private groups estimates. So the fbi is the better source for actual statistics. In those cases, what were talking about are identities where the name of the person is known and certain other information that allows us to be reasonably precise as to who it is. We at least have in mind when a decision, for instance, on someone being on a nofly list is made. Or, for instance, when they come back, when they come back, if theyre identified as a foreign fighter for isis, according to what you said earlier, theyve committed a crime and they can be arrested upon entry, correct . Thats correct. And in fact, that has happened, correct . Yes, it has. All right. And then what happens after that . Theyre put in prison, right . Well, first of all, when theyre referred to the fbi for further investigation and prosecution, that actually is outside of dhss purview and into the fbis purview. So if you want to start tracking people from that point forward, i would refer you to the fbi. And then to the department of justice. All right. But youre familiar with the procedures, right . Im familiar with the procedures, yes. All right. You work with the fbi to get that done, right . Yes, we work very closely with the fbi with our partners in the Intelligence Community. So hearing all that, i guess we can sleep a little more soundly now, right . Well, sir, yes, we can. However, as we always tell everyone, prudence and vigilance is something that is the responsibility of all of us. I yield back. The chair recognizes the gentleman from pennsylvania. Mr. Perry. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, gentlemen, for your time. Ambassador. A few months ago taxpayers were asked to spend a couple hundred Million Dollars or several hundred Million Dollars for the training and i guess some equipping of fsa fighters. Can you give me and us any update on, you know, were quickly approaching the time when that proviso was to expire. Whats our investment gleaned us at this point . Again, thats an area that was a previous line of questioning in the same direction. I am not the person who deals with the Free Syrian Army or the syrian opposition. So thats really beyond my responsibilities and my mandate at the state department. All right. Thats unfortunate. I mean, its very frustrating for us, right . You come here. We have questions that we have to respond to our constituents, and either you dont have or wont give the answers. And so we just walk away with nothing. Its very frustrating. I mean, you have no you have no indication whatsoever. Like youre not even aware i mean, youre aware the programs happening, and thats your complete knowledge of it like mine . Again, i am not an authoritative spokesperson. What do you know . Do you know anything . Congressman, i have testified here for the better part of two hours about what im trying to do leading an effort to deal with foreign fighters, about our engagement with our partners, about the different approaches were taking with those partners. Again, im not responsible for our overall syria policies or our relations with the syrian opposition. My understanding is that you have a hearing scheduled in the reasonably near future with someone who will be able to address those issues. But if there are specific questions that you want addressed, im confident that we will find someone at the state department who can provide you with those. Listen, i can appreciate that. Youve got a long record of service. And thank you very much for that. You must understand when you come to these things as a representative of the department of state, you should have a modicum of information regarding many subjects, specifically the one that were talking about as a member of congress, when i go out to a town hall meeting, i cant say, well, look, im not on appropriations. Its not my responsibility. Ill see you later. My constituents dont accept that. And with all due respect, i dont feel like your answer is acceptable at this time. But with that having been said, if you could give me the unclassified version of a longterm unclassified of a longterm strategy regarding a peaceful transition in syria and look, weve got a couple minutes here, but do the best you can. Give me the high points. I mean, syria doesnt like or turkey doesnt like assad, so theyre not helping us with isis. We dont like assad or isis, but we picked isis as the more problematic one of the two at this time. Paint some picture of where were going because we just spent 500 million for Free Syrian Army for Free Syrian Army fighters which you can provide no answers on, and the American People are supposed to continue to support the administration and some policy. Im asking what the heck it is. Congressman, i was asked to come up and testify. And the subject of the testimony was to be isis and the threat from foreign fighters. That is what i have tried to do the best of my ability. I was not asked to be a witness on our broader syria policy or to be prepared to discuss the future of syria. Ive said that the essentials of our policy have a political settlement inside syria that enables the people of syria to enable have a democratic future without assad that enables them to be free from terrorist threats and terrorist organizations as well. I really feel that if you want to delve more deeply into our syrian policy, that then someone who can be an authoritative spokesman on our policy on syria should be asked to come testify. All right. I appreciate that. Those are great platitudes that americans can agree with and probably all people around the world can agree with. Let me ask you this. The Khorasan Group. Are you familiar . Can i ask questions about that . I am familiar with the Khorasan Group. Some of the questions may involve classified answers. I will try to answer your questions. They are described as seasoned al qaeda operatives in syria, would you agree with that . Yes, i would. So when al qaeda, seasoned al qaeda operatives. So when the president told us a couple years ago that and i dont remember the exact verbiage, but it was something similar to al qaeda is decimated and on the run. Would that comport with the success of the Khorasan Group in syria . Or would that be counterconvenienting . What i would say, sir, is my understanding of what the president meant is al qaeda is an organization thats been severely damaged. That did not mean that al qaeda had been and all the individual elements of al qaeda had been defeated. We al qaeda in the al maghreb we see al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. And this group of fighters who have gone to syria, coming in some respects from pakistan, and afghanistan, from core al qaeda, have tried to create space to operate in syrian territory. So could i say that it was a little true and maybe a little deceptive . Or untrue . Whatever you want to call it . It wasnt completely factual. I dont share your views. I appreciate that. I yield back, mr. Chairman. The chair recognizes the gentleman from illinois, mr. Schneider. Thank you, mr. Chair. Again, i want to thank the witnesses for joining us today to specifically talk about the threat of foreign fighters going into syria, visavis isis. Looking at the numbers that were presented to us and the source or location of where many of the fighters are coming from, of the 16,000 roughly 5,000 are coming from north africa, as i mentioned earlier. About another 2500 from europe, 40 of those from france. And then from the gulf states, you have another 4,000, roughly. So my general question, and ill ask you a couple questions and then leave you to answer. My general question is are there any Common Threads attracting these fighters from these different regions . Are there specific Regional Trends that draw those fighters, and how do we deal with that . Those are my general questions. And then ambassador, you mentioned peter newman who did a study or released a study in the spring and specifically identified gibril as a cleric, muslim cleric, who has a large following, happens to be here in the United States. Not necessarily sending people to fight, but preaching in a way that inspires those folks to fight. What are we doing specifically about folks like that, not just in the United States, but globally, but with specific concern of people preaching from the United States . And with that, ill leave it to the witnesses. Just to address briefly your question about Regional Trends, there are differences. I think the one common theme is the attraction of foreign fighters to the conflict in syria, the idea that sunni muslims are being attacked and need to be defended. This is a fairly common theme throughout the conversations ive had with our foreign partners as to the reasons, the primary reason, that foreign fighters are attracted to the conflict. But there are variations on this theme. In the western balkans, for example, ive had conversations with officials there who have pointed to the fact that the foreign fighters from their country are coming from the poorest areas and that their foreign fighters from those countries are being told if you go to syria, youll get paid, youll have a job, youll have status. And the ideological, if you will, element is less important. Ive talked to partners in Southeast Asia where in some cases the motivation seems more to go to get training, to get skills that can be brought back to the home country to potentially be used in terroristic activities in the home country. Again, not so much an ideological motivation. So there are regional variations. There are individual variations. But the most important, the most powerful motivation does seem to be the conflict in syria, the attraction of the idea that we need to go defend our muslim brothers, our sunni muslim brothers in syria. If i can sir. The large number coming from france, almost 1,000 fighters from france, are those residents or citizens of france who have connections to tunisia or morocco or libya, or are they disconnected . Many of them are from north africa originally. But many of them are second or third generation. These are not necessarily first generation immigrants. And that raises another kind of regional variation. Certainly the problem of the inability of some of our European Partners to integrate their immigrant populations into their societies has left a degree of alienation that has made some of these people susceptible to the kind of propaganda that isil is putting out. Theres also another element here, sir, which i think cant be totally neglected. I believe and its hard to come up with specific evidence of this but there are some foreign fighters who are simply attracted to the violence that is taking place. There was a mention of mr. Namoush who was alleged to have committed these killings at the Jewish Museum in brussels. This is a man with a very deep criminal background. And again, i think theres an element of that in some of the attraction of foreign fighters. It is this attraction to violence itself. And in the last minute as far as some of the preachers that the study put out by mr. Newman and two others said they specifically identified two preachers globally who are having a disproportionate influence on promoting fighters going into syria. I dont know whether my colleague wants to address that. The state department doesnt do activities inside the United States of this nature. Im really not the right person to answer that question. Im not going to obviously address the specifics of any individual case, but i do want to make the point that in all the work that we do in community outreach, working with federal, state and local Law Enforcement, were very mindful of the distinction between those who are exercising their free speech rights and those who are to the contrary urging people to carry out acts of violence. The former is to protect the constitutional right, and the latter is a crime. And we distinguish in all that we do carefully between those two characteristics. So im not going to assess the statements of any individual religious leaders from the table here today other than just to assure you that we are very mindful of the distinction and we use that in all the work that we do. With that my time has expired and i yield back. The chair recognizes the gentleman from georgia, mr. Collins, five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I appreciate the time. I want to follow up on a couple quick things. I was unable to be here for the whole time but i watched the hearing. And on several times you basically and even when my friend from pennsylvania sort of punted the issue on commenting on the administrations policy on syria. To an extent i understand that, but i do have a question because youre part of the policy of working with foreign fighters coming into syria and how we deal with that, correct . Okay. Do you understand the policy . Of the administration . Im not asking you to comment on it. Im just saying, do you understand it . Again, im not the authoritative spokesman. I understand. Do i understand what the Main Elements are . Yes, i think i do. Okay. Im not going to chase that last i think i do, because this is an important part to me. And im not trying to pin you down. But punting the question, the gentleman from pennsylvania said, i think is a direct, you know, issue of what were dealing with here because theres a lot of folks trying to understand our policy in syria and what were trying to do and if someone like my friend who has served in iraq and served in this region during war time this is very much a concern. And if we dont understand the policy and youre trying to carry out a bigger part of that policy, to say that you do at least attempt to understand it is encouraging. My question is, if you understand it, what is your understanding of that policy, as short as you can be . What is your understanding of the administrations policy . The president has spoken about our policy. The secretary of state has spoken about our policy. Ambassador Ann Patterson the assistant secretary for the near east has spoken about our policy. Brent mcguirk, her deputy, has spoken about our policy. With all due respect i can read theirs. I want yours. Because in a job description, youre given a job, and correct, youre there to carry out your part of the policy, correct . Okay. From your understanding of what the policy is on how were to contain or how were to fight and how to curb these fighters because i have other questions on which the violence aspect which i tend to agree with you. I think theres just the soldier of fortune kind of attitude among some of these. They want to go. They get their experience and go. Do you have a clear enough understanding of the policy objectives inside of syria and then the influences to carry out your function . And if so, what do you feel like your part of that policy is . I think i do have enough of an understanding to carry out my role, sir. Because as i understand the policy, and again, im not the spokesperson, it is to try to bring about a political settlement in syria that will allow the Syrian People to have a democratic future that will be a future without assad. That is the core, the fundamental of the policy. That is the basis on which i try to do what i do, which is the idea that why were trying to deal with this foreign fighter problem, there are bigger syria pieces that are being dealt with by the secretary, by the president , by ambassador patterson, by ambassador rubenstein whos responsible for our syria policy. So youre actually in dealing with this i thinks part of the problem because theres basically a threepronged kind of attack with the assad regime, the fighters against assad. Then youve got the fighters against the fighters of assad. And youve got fighters coming in from all over to fight here. We did not address that and ive read and listened to the president speak about this. We basically chose to leave the current regime, the assad off sort of the table when were training free syrian fighters to go after isis, or isil, however you want to describe it, just the islamic state, and were saying well deal with the assad part of this later. Im trying to figure out what are you doing or are you doing to curb outside fighters coming in on his behalf . Is that part of your policy . And if it is, that contradicts the policy of basically leaving him for another day. Certainly most of the efforts that ive talked about here today are related to sunni foreign fighters. They are fighters who are going to fight for isil, al nusra, Khorasan Group. Those groups. We are concerned about the other foreign fighters, if you will, that come into syria, the shia foreign fighters, the hezbollah foreign fighters, the reality is we have fewer tools to do to deal with those fighters. Would you say that those fighters are more in it for the fight . Like you know, i just we all grew up in neighborhoods, you just had one of the guys in the class, theyre just going to fight. Sometimes theres a reason, sometimes theres not. Would that classify them more as a fighter . I would say, and again, i say this without being the expert on this subject, that i feel the fighters who have gone to fight on the side of assad are different than the fighters who are coming from other countries to fight for isil and al nusra, that it is a more organized effort, a more supported by outside countries effort. I appreciate your understanding because i do believe you have a difficult job and understanding the policy is important. At least your part, whether you comment on the bigger part, i still think that we need to be arming those who want to fight. Thats the kurds. We need to get them involved in the fight and anybody else who wants to join. You have a tough job. I commend you for doing it. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. The chair recognizes the patient gentlewoman from florida, ms. Frankel, for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I often feel like the agatha c that the Agatha Christie novel and then there was none. Three now. Thank you very much for being here. Well, this has been a very interesting discussion to listen to. To me it sounds like the problem is the problem. I say that not to be facetious but it sounds like a rock in a hard place situations, not to be trite. I think some of the frustration you have heard is there is an old saying the knee bone is attached to the thigh bone and so forth. It is difficult to hear a discussion to the foreign fighters with not an overall discussion of the strategy. So i will try out of respect to narrow my questions to the foreign fighters. If i ask a question that they would have to say i will respect your answer. So lets start with this proposition. We are to assume that these foreign fighters coming back to our country or to our allies is an immediate present danger to our security, is that something we should assume . Well, we certainly treat them as if they are a threat. If they have been a foreign fighter for isil that will be taken with enormous seriousness. I think we need to recognize that there is the possibility that some foreign fighters walked away from the fight because they decided that isil was not what it was advertised to be and its social media which i would echo secretary johnsons characterization as slick totally at odds with the experience. So there are people who are walking away from the fight. I have other questions. Is it an immediate threat . Im trying to understand the seriousness of it. Some are until otherwise it can be established. I want to get back to you, ambassador. I think you said that these fighters that are coming from other countries many of them are going to fight assad. Is that what you said . I said i think that is one of the primary motivations. So when we go after isil, air strikes, lets say, in iraq or we try to denigrate isil we are in a sense helping assad, is that correct . I dont think we are helping assad. I think assads problems go well beyond whatever we do with isil. Certainly, if he is taking some consolation in the fact that we are attacking isil i think he is making a big mistake. Im trying to figure this out. If isil is coming in, the fighters are coming in to fight assad we are trying to denigrate isil so as we do we encourage or insight more fighters to come in . Thats the question. Are our actions or our inactions, either actions to go after isil insighting more fighters to come in or inaction to go after assad is that insighting more fighters to come in . Im not sure i can give you a definitive answer here. Its hard for me to put myself in the head of a foreign fighter. What about in terms of the advertising that they do to bring the fighters in . Do they use our actions or inaction snz. They are trying to use our actions as an incentive or motivation for people to come and fight. I cant point specific evidence for this stage and setting that says whether this is happening. Are most of the fighters coming in through turkey . Yes. Turkey is the primary target. Seems another counter veiling issue here is turkey is being is under deluge from syrians fleeing assad. So their resources are hurting badly. Seems to me that they want somebody to be fighting assad. So do you think that is a factor in not keeping the borders more secure . Turkey has made no secret that one of the primary elements of its policy is to see assad go. At the same time i think turkey understands the threat that isil poses to turkey. We had an incident in march where some isil fighters crossed over into turkey and gauged a shootout with Turkish Police men. We had isil kidnapping and holding hostage turkish diplomats in mozel. We had a case in october where turkey broke up a group inside turkey that had gathered weapons and explosives. I think turkey wants assad to go. Thank you, mr. Chair. I yield back. I want to thank the gentlemen for being here for this hearing. This hearing is concluded. Thank you. Live at 1 45 eastern a look at the future of ukraine hosted by the atlantic council. Later britains Prince William is visiting washington, d. C. Today with plans to visit the world bank. We will have reports from jim yong kim on Climate Change on cspan 2. Congress is back in session today. The house starts legislative work at 2 00 eastern with a bill on drought relief in california. The senate back in at 2 00. Lawmakers will consider a number of nominations. Work continues to fund the federal government past thursday when current funding expires. You can watch the house live on cspan and the senate live on cspan 2. Tonight on the communicateers the worlds First Digital weapon, a computer virus. It was sophisticated. First of all, the most unique thing was this was a virus designed to physically destroy something. In the past when we see malwear that steals pass words but never something designed to physically destroy and leap out of the Digital World and have some kind of kinetic activity. That is the first thing that made it unique. Other than that it was really sophisticated. It was designed to increase and slow the speed of the centrifuges. While it was doing that it did this remarkable trick which was to make the operators of the plant think that the operations were perfectly normal. What it did was recorded normal activity on the Computers First and then played back that normal activity to the monitoring machines when it was doing the sabotage. Tonight at 8 00 eastern on cspan 2. Civil rights leaders, colleagues and friends of the late mayor of washington, d. C. Marion barry gathered at the Washington Convention center for a memorial service. Speakers included nation of islam leader, d. C. Mayor vincent gray, and rev. Jesse jackson. This portion is about an hour and 15 minutes. Marion barry was brilliant. When he worked on his doctorate degree just short of his dissertation, when he quit school to go to work with the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee and forewent the completion of his phd he learned 180 chemical equations that he shared with his son, christopher, on several occasions and could still recite them in these late years of his life. Bible says that a tree is known by the fruit that it bears. So if you want to know and understand the fruit you need to check the tree. Christopher marion barry exudes with his father. We are going to hear i was asked to