Transcripts For CSPAN3 Navy Officials Testify On Readiness Modernizing Naval Fleet 20220720

We will be momentarily joined by senator cain and other members. We are, as you know in the midst of voting. I would like to welcome our witnesses to the hearing this afternoon. Mr. Frederik stephanie, principal, civilian deputy secretary. That is a mouthful. So, welcome mister secretary. Assistant secretary of the navy for research, development, and acquisition. Vice admirable william galina. Commander of naval command. Admiral troy mcclelland, Program Executive officer for Industrial Infrastructure, and ms. Diameter noah meijer were director of management for the government accounting office. Thank you for your service to the nation, and for the truly professional services that men and women under your command. I also want to recognize the Ranking Member senator kramer, i also want to recognize senator cain, and senator sullivan. And i appreciate all my colleagues willingness to hold this joint readiness hearing on this very important subject. We stand at a crossroads today. The nations shipyards are in dire need of modernization to ensure that we can maintain a Current Fleet and the fleet of the future. I am encouraged that the navy has, finally gotten serious about investing in this Critical Infrastructure that is been elected for too long. In hawaii, we are all proud of Pearl Harbor Naval shipyards contributions to our fleets readiness. And i want to be sure that the yard receives the resources and needs to keep our fleet in fighting shape. I look forward to hearing from you this afternoon about how the fiscal year 2023 budget supports this plan. The navy has begun a once in a Generation Program to modernize its shipyards under which the Shipyard Infrastructure optimization program, or psyop. This 20year program to prove the Shipyard Infrastructure, has been sorely neglected for many years, and we have to get it right. We are relying on the digital twin motley and simulation effort to develop the most efficient and productive lay out for air operations at the four Public Shipyards. And last year, for example, we had to add tonight 50 million to fund the dry dock at the Portsmouth Naval shipyard due to unexpected ballooning of the estimated cost. We need to understand what steps the navy has taken to ensure we have better cost estimates of the projects we are undertaking. And this will be important to ask the navy turns to the dry dock replacement at Pearl Harbor Naval shipyard. Which is the next dry dock to be constructed, and will require significant dredging and filling to extend the existing dry dock. We also need to understand how the navy is structuring the sigh of effort to improve with the efficiency of the shipyards to deal with the ship maintenance challenge that are facing the maybe today. Psyop is not unlimited just to dry docks, it also extends to optimizing the work of the shipyards through production, the citys and other improvements to misaligned configurations. And this is why i have been so focused on the waterfront Production Facility at pearl harbor. This project is important to the workforce there, and i want to ensure the navy remains committed to it. We need to be able to maintain the fleet that we have, if we are better each the fleet signs that the navy has identified as required, to respond to future threats. Psyops success is critical to that goal. And we want to help, and would ask the navy, to consider how the program could be accelerated. Without impacting availabilities. I look forward to hearing today how we can Work Together to ensure that scientists fully successful effort. Now i turn to senator graham or for his remarks. Thank you chairwoman her rotunno as well as general cain and Ranking Member sullivan for greene to hold this hearing jointly to discuss a range of important evil shipyard issues across our subcommittee jurisdictions. And lets face, it is not just the issue of the day, it is the issue of the day with the regard to the future of the navy. As i think about a Naval Shipyards, it is striking to me how intertwined they are with our nations history. In other words, theyre really old. Even before independence. For example, norfolk Naval Shipyard near endear to senator cains heart, of course, was first established in 67 under the british flag is Gosport Shipyard in seized six years later during the revolutionary war. Theres not even a senator that old anymore, is there . In the 17 90s, the u. S. Chesapeake one of the first six u. S. Navy ships authorized by congress was built there. Later, the first doc in the western hemisphere opened in 1833 known as dry docked one and now its a Historic National landmark and is still used today. Think about it, it is 189 years old and still used to maintain naval vessels. Suffice to say, our Public Shipyards all have storied histories and arch really national infrastructure. Each is over 100 years old and showing its age. The pork initiative of the shipyards, is having a serious negative effect on Flight Operations today. And the bill has come to. This is not a future problem, it is here now, and when we must Work Together to solve. So while there is a lot to discuss, and i appreciated chairwoman hironos opening comments and much of what she had to say, i plan to focus my question on how congress can help in terms of authorities workforce development, and funding. On the last point, im hopeful that the Bipartisan Group of senators working on the shipyard act, many of whom are in the room today, will be able to get it done. I look forward to testimony of our witnesses. Thank you madam chair. We thank you. Now i would like to turn to senator cain, the tournament chair of the readiness subcommittee. Senator cain. Thank you sharon. Thank you we this is really exciting, this joint meeting. And i want to thank you, chair owner thank the witnesses for being here today, and for dedicated service to the country. Youve got some Friendly Faces around the dais when it comes to support for our navy shipyards. But at the same time, the navy has some significant challenges on its hands regarding the implementation of psyop. Especially the ability, or inability to be on time and on budget. There is no doubt these are necessary investments. The condition of our shipyards both in terms of infrastructure and workforce, given the age of the shipyards as indicated by senator kramer, do require a lot of resources and support. We have to do our part here in congress. When we look at how the navy has executed sayah projects today, i have some concerns and i also see some positives. How do we ensure that the navy can even program the average of a billion dollars per year in budget request over the next 20 years . The dry docks replacement at portsmouth, that is the portsmouth in maine, not virginia, was originally estimated by the navy to cost 200 and 50 million. Then the cost doubled, that it increases either to new 50 million as a result of a sole source contract. So today, my particular interest in hearing from you is how we have implemented the Lessons Learned from that portsmouth for the rest of the sayah portfolio. It isnt all bad news. The navy has invested well over the statutorily required 6 Capital Investment Program Since 2011. That is real positive. The work of the g. A. O. Has never been more important than it is today, so im glad to have miss moore here testifying again before the committee. I am looking forward to hearing her insights on how the navy can better execute construction projects, modernize its Capital Equipment, and otherwise optimize shipyard operations. So madam chair, thanks again for leading the charge on this hearing to discuss their shipyards in detail. Thank you, madam chair, i want to thank you and senator cain, and all of my colleagues for conducting this hearing, it is a very important hearing. And to senator kramers discussion of history, i actually it was just talking to senator hirono as we walked down to the vote on the latest movie, midway i dont know if anyone has seen that but it is quite a good movie. It has a scene where the shipyard that was in hawaii did a miraculous job of bringing the carrier of the yorktown back online to go fight in the battle of midway. It was decisive, the Shipyard Point about what senator kramer was talking about. History, really made history in that critical battle that was one of the most important and world war ii. One of the most important battles in our nations history. That is how important this topic of discussion is. As has already been noted, the average age of Naval Shipyard facilities is over 60 years old. The average dry dock age is approaching 100 years old. We have seen the readiness of shipyards weekend as decisions were made to prioritize shipbuilding over ship maintenance. When initially developed the Shipyard Infrastructure Optimization Plan had a bill of 21 billion over 20 years. That number has already increased in the last few years and that is a topic i hope we can discuss in detail today. Additionally, according to the g. A. O. The navy cannot currently complete all required maintenance for aircraft mare carriers and submarines with our existing dry dock capabilities. How can we balance these necessary Capital Investments with the existing Maintenance Requirements . I think we find ourselves in a challenging situation as it relates to operational demands, ship maintenance, and the conditions of the fleet. Not to mention the challenges in the indopacific leak theater and a look at where china is with regard to its ship building and maintenance capabilities. Another issue that i think impact the joint force is maintenance unconventionally powered ships. Delays of combatants escort Nuclear Aircraft carriers also impact resite readiness. I believe one option in that regard is to conduct lower Level Maintenance at smaller, private shipyards to free more space for more complex maintenance and overhauls at our larger, private shipyards. I hosted the secretary of the navy a couple of years ago to our shipyard in ketchikan, alaska, which has enormous capabilities and is looking to do a lot of work for the u. S. Coast guard. We have another shipyard in seward, alaska, that just completed almost 11 million worth of work on the u. S. And ask grasp. A navy rescue and salvage vessel. The work was delivered on time, on budget, and received outstanding feedback. This is an all hands on deck need. I think there are shipyards across america. Including in my states, that can participate and help out with regard to these challenges. Thank you, i look forward to hearing our witnesses. Thank you, senator sullivan, and i thank you for suggesting we all go to see the new midway movie because it really highlights the importance of our Public Shipyards. We will start this hearing by hearing from secretary stephanie first. Please proceed. Yes maam, thank you, i will be reading a statement from all three of us from the navy. Chairwoman hirono and chairman cain. Ranking members kramer and sullivan. Distinguished members of the subcommittee, on behalf of myself, vice admirable molinas, and admirable mcclellan we thank you for the opportunity to discuss the department of navys infrastructure optimization program. Better known as psyop. Modernized and ready shipyards are generators of fleet readiness and are the strength of our national security. We appreciate the strong support this committee, particularly the subcommittees have shown for our infrastructure optimization efforts today. We are committed to maintaining transparency throughout the planning and execution of the departments siop investments. This is a onceinacentury opportunity to revitalize our nations Public Shipyards, ensuring that these Critical National security facilities are properly positioned to meet current and future needs of the navy. It is about modernizing aging facilities, equipment, and dry docks that have served our fleet for generations. And, doing that modernization without disrupting our current maintenance that supports the readiness of todays fleet. We also need to upgrade these facilities and equipment to support new classes of ships such as the ford Aircraft Carriers and the virginia block five submarines. While at the same time making the shipyards more efficient and more effective at maintaining all of our ships. We need to bring them up to modern standards and ensure they are resilient to climate change, all of this will take years of consistent funding, construction, and leadership at all levels. Informed by complete future years defense program, they fiscal year 23 budget includes our strongest siop funding since the program was established. It includes 1. 7 billion dollars for the program, with a sustained commitment of four point. Sorry, 8. 3 billion dollars across its lifetime. The request it will support modernization of Capital Equipment and enable danced planning activities and required environmental assessments. They 23 funds will also label critical programs such as the start of the replacement of dried up three at pearl harbor in hawaii. And, the continuation of Multi Mission dry dock one in kid remain. And, dry dock eight salt Water Systems in portsmouth, virginia. As well as they planning for the Multi Mission dried off at grammar tin, washington. Multiple Navy Commands play key roles in planning and execution. For example, the Navy Facilities engineers system command builds and maintains the shipyards. The naval say Systems Command operates the shipyards. And, the commander of the naval installations hosts all of those activities. To ensure disciplined oversight while maintaining uninterrupted support to the fleet, the navys trading this as if it is a major defense acquisition program. We have established a Program Executive officer for Industrial Infrastructure late last year. We are developing and overall Acquisition Strategy, and we are developing individual master plans with cost, schedule, and Performance Measurements baselines for each of the shipyards to measure our progress as we go. We understand that for this to succeed we must properly planned and execute the work without impacting the shipyards ability to execute their mission. Balancing the needs with that of the fleet and the shipyards is, and will continue to be critical in a process involving all stakeholders. We are committed to working as a team to ensure the program is ruthlessly executed. To avoid in Flight Operations or ship maintenance periods. And, conversely, that ship maintenance availabilities do not impact downstream siop projects. We believe an improved governments combined with consistent funding will focus and accelerate this critical, long term initiative. It will enable the navy to sustain the Nuclear Powered warships that we have now, and the ones that we are building for the future fleet, strengthening maritime dominance and defense of our nation. With that, we look forward to your questions, thank you. Thank you, i would like to hear from mrs. Moral. Great, thank you very much, good afternoon, chairwoman hirono. Chairman cain, Ranking Members kramer and sullivan. It is good to be back before most subcommittees today. Over the past five years we have issued a series of reports on the infrastructure of the navys shipyards. The 37,000 skilled artisans who overhaul and repair carriers and submarines, often perform that work in facilities that are in poor condition, using conditions that are well past their expected service life. As was mentioned, the shipyards were built well over a century ago to repair wind and same pattern ships. Their layout is far from efficient to maintain Nuclear Power and vessels. Moving the people, equipment, and parts necessary to repair a submarine is like trying to drive a century old streets of boston. Perhaps most significantly, the navy does not have enough dry dock capacity to make the future nate maintenance needs of the fleet. In 2017 way found that the navy lacked a comprehensive plan for addressing these significant problems. The navy, to its credit, developed a program and in office to management, and kept Navy Leadership informed of its progress. In late 2019 we took an in depth look at the siop. We thought it was a decent first step, a series of plans to improve each of the shipyards. At that time the navy estimated it would take 20 years and spent about 21 billion dollars to implement its planned improvements. Way found that initial cost estimate was unrealistically low. Among other things, a 21 billion dollar price tag did not factor in inflation, and did not include the cost to improve underlying utilities. We recommended the navy improve its cost mid estimates to help manage the program and provide congress the information you need to help make funding decisions. Those recommendations are still open. Fast forward to today, the navy has refined its plan, identified resource needs, and enhanced leadership engagement. This provides a reasonable framework for eventually improving Shipyard Infrastructure. The reality is at the shipyards have not significantly changed since our 2019 report, in a report that we issued yesterday we found that overall facility conditions at all for shipyards remains poor. And, among the lowest across the entire enterprise. The average age of equipment has increased and most is beyond its expected service life. And, they backlog of facilitate restoration and modernization projects has grown to about seven billion dollars. Plus, the navy faces some very real time pressures. Ford class carriers and expanded pay load virginia class submarines will need dry dock capacity the navy currently does not have. It remains to be seen how the navy will specifically address these problems, as proposed actions are complex and many years away from being fully implemented. We have a number of concerns about psyop implementation. First, the navy is estimated date for completing the individual shipyard plants has slipped to the end of 2024 as a result, and we do not know the full details about the navy will upgrade and oftentimes, how long that will take and what it will cost. Second, as was mentioned, the estimated cost for the first three draw top improvement projects have grown from just under one billion to nearly six billion dollars, that does not bode well for the future costs of the 11 other planned dry dock projects. There are, we are concerned that these increasing dried out costs could crowd out other plant improvements. They should be a top priority but they are not the only priority. Mr. Stephanie, admiral curliness, and admiral mcclelland understand these challenges. They have committed to addressing them. Maintaining that top level support will be vital. Because, this effort will span many administrations and many congresses. G. A. O. Will continue our independent oversight of shipyard improvements. Later this month we will start our next review, focusing on the navys cost estimate and schedule for science projects. Our continued oversight will help inform congress and enhance the efforts to improve the shipyards. Which are vital for ensuring navy readiness, madam chairwoman and mister chairman i thank you for the opportunity to testify this afternoon, i look forward to your questions. We will proceed to a fiveminute rounds of questioning. Start with me. So, admiral mcclellan, are you the person that is charged with overseeing arent siop . Yes, senator, i am, admiral mcclelland and i have been assigned as the programming executive officer for the the project. It is in my portfolio. I will work i work very closely with the naval Facilities Engineering Systems Command. The construction agent, the agent for design and construction, and naval sea Systems Command, senator. But, you are the point person to oversee siop . Yes, senator, i am. One of the major issues relating to the Modernization Program is the bass difference between the cost estimates, portsmouth is the prime example, they difference between the estimates of what it would cost to modernize those facilities, that shipyard, and what the contract goes out for. What is being done, or has been done to make sure that as you embark on the Pearl Harbor Naval shipyard modernization, that the estimates are accurate . Thank you for that question, senator, what i laid with is a mechanism for early contractor engagement has been installed by the construction agents naval Facilities Engineering system command, specifically it is a Acquisition Strategy that allows us to have early engagement with multiple contractors, so we can discuss means and methods with them, talk to them about the costs that they say and implement Lessons Learned as we are developing the program. That has been done for the pearl harbor work, senator. Miss maher, do you think that is a Lesson Learned from the portsmouth example . Thank you, senator, yes, i would imagine and hope that the navy has learned some lessons from what happened in portsmouth in terms of cost growth we, with a dry dock. As your microphone on . Im having difficulty here and you. Maybe you can get closer. Sure, is this better . Yes. It is clear from the navys reporting, provided to congress a few weeks ago that they have listed a number of Lessons Learned. And, one of the items that is noted in the report is that they are learning some lessons from the cost growth, from the portsmouth project, as well as others. Review and that is something well be looking into a much more depth when we start a new review digging into cost estimates on schedule estimates for some of the larger psyop projects. I would note as well, theres been pretty significant cost growth for the pearl harbor project as well, which is obviously a critical capability that is required. But there has been significant cross growth in that project, as well as increase in the overall scope. So, senator stephanie, in view of the challenges that you have had in making sure that our cost estimates are accurate. And you know that in the 2023 budget there is 1. 7 billion, and Going Forward but i think i heard you say was 8. 3 million for the sayah project. Do you think that is going to be enough . And you have the challenges that you face an accurate cost a summit . So one of the other lessons that we want to bring up was getting the desire that is one of the lessons we learned from portsmouth and pearl as well. So you like a big projects that are in the next five years, we have the designs mature enough that we have confidence that theres not gonna be continued growth on those projects. Do we have enough funding across the setup to do all the work that we had planned for those five years . Yes maam. I think later on well talk about things to accelerate or move things from outside of the bottom in, that yes. In the five years of the fed up, we have enough funding to do the work we need to do in those years. I think we are really going to be very much focused on making sure that there is enough funding to proceed with siop because the for Public Shipyards we want to move forward. And as mentioned, i have really been very focused on the waterfront facility. I still dont quite understand why that Production Facility, which is going to enable the Pearl Harbor Navy Shipyard Workers to be able to be more efficient in the work that they do, i still dont understand why the facility part of the modernization is not happening at the same time as the dry dock building. Care to comment, mister secretary, very briefly . Im running out of time. Yes, quickly maam, yes. In previous budget cycles we had to make a hard choice to push the design of the planning at the water facility off because of Budget Constraints on a previous cycle. Now we are looking to see if we can go back. So previous decisions pushed the facility out two years beyond the dry dock itself, but we are looking as part of the next budget cycle, can we bring things forward and try to line them up. Because ideally, we would like to have them lined up in a perfect world, maam. Which means, just one more thing, that as miss bismarck testified Olivia Quentin is also beyond the timeline that they should be replaced. If we dont have a timeline waterfront facility, next to you or near where the dry dock, is where the equipment will be necessary, we want to make sure the equipment that they are using is up to par. Id like to recognize senator kramer. Thank you, chairwoman. And thanks again to all of you. So, sticking with the Lessons Learned, while looking forward, do you all have. I will start with you secretary stephanie. Do you have any advice for us in terms of policy, streamlining processes, authorizations, obviously funding. But what have we learned that we could be up with in making this process a little bit more efficient and effective . I will start with a couple, senator, and see that omicron has a little bit more the details. That would be. Great authority which we have for the special projects to do, she found them incrementally overtime, which you have provided us in the past. I think continuing that for these large projects, and potentially looking at maybe a multi year type procurement like we do in the shipbuilding world, where we can seeping at the most efficiency by building a set of projects together in a multiyear contract, a single large contract. I think, those are two authorities that might be worth looking at to give more flexibility and negotiating space to our team. And i will pass it over to add omicron, if he has any more specific ones. Thank you, mr. 70. So i would only mention may be, and emphasize what mr. Stephanie said. Really multi year work, relative to repair and maintenance, something that we are looking very closely. These are complex projects, and as i think preparedness could give the impression of less complexity. But really, the multi year relative to say a dry dock that we are repairing, and the way that relates to you an operational availability, isnt a current operational availability is absolutely critical. And so, our ability to have a flexible approach, multiyear funding, certainly is going to help us execute overtime, senator. Thank you for those words. Allowing for all of that, of course theres another challenge that we are hearing from everybody. I mean from seasonal farm and hospitality workers, two surgeons and very Sophisticated Technology workers, and everybody in between, we have a work force challenge in our country right now, particularly in the private sector. I presume the you are experiencing the same thing, you are seeing the same thing. Do you have any thoughts, first of all, and what you are trying to do to recruit and retain employees at the yards but also, again if theres anything we think we could be doing . I think would be best or just workforce that the shipyards. Yeah, senator thats a great question. Thanks very much. And we are seeing the same thing the public guards, as well. Our attrition rates are higher than we had planned. Our current rates are lower than what we had planned, and you know, what we are doing is we offer some pretty good training as we bring people in to the yards you are apprentice programs. So that is one row positive. The other thing we are looking at right now is, we are actually look at wages. For angela positions, many times we are competing at a wage that is less than what some businesses in the local area for example, whether be amazon, or even a starbucks for example. Typically, the starting wage for some of our mechanics in that 14 to 15 dollar an hour, so right about the minimum wage level. And, we are finding is in some areas where shipyards are located, portsmouth, and pictured sound in particular, the going rate, the growing wages actually higher than that. So we are working through Navy Leadership, and with the Human Resources organizations across the department of defense to look at that which grade that we are paying your folks. Well, i commend you on that. And make sure that would be helpful, we ought to be. And clearly when youre competing for tonight with the starbucks in the seattle area, it is a tough competitor, but we ought to have the best that we can get. And we want to certainly help you be competitive. Just to bring up really quickly, theyre 18 correspondents and a lot of them from this committee of the shipyard act. Speaking of infrastructure, and some additional resources. Maybe could you just generally comment on the shipyard act . What do you know about it, how helpful maybe could be, mister secretary. Certainly. So the navy supports that act. The idea of having a commitment of all the funding up front with a time limit, not a time limit. One year to spend, but having time over a period of time to spend the funding most officially. And the knowledge that all, in this case, the total dollar value was there and could be worked with in the industry most effectively is a best practice. So, we would absolutely support that, sir. It is always tough to play the time value of money in appropriations process by the government, but we need to get better at. It thank you, thank you manager. Senator cain. Thank you, toronto. Miss moore, africa possessions for you. In a repair testimony, you talk about the g8 funding that the average condition of facilities at the fore publics regards improved at three of the four, from 2016, to 2020. I would be remiss if i didnt notice that the one that did not improve, and actually got worse, was the norfolk Naval Shipyard. And explain we were finding, the gfs finding in that regard. Sure, thank you senator. So, we were reporting and summarizing information that is collected that all the Public Shipyards by the navy, and youre absolutely right, norfolk was one of the four were conditions that actually worsened a bit. Over the course of a threeyear period. Some of that was no doubt related to just assure each of the facility. Both in terms of the facilities, as well as some of the equipment. Some of it may have been related to a change in some of the methodology is that the navy is using to assess facility conditions that may have been part of it as well. Big picture, all four of the shipyards are still rated as four and general facility conditions, and remain gravely concerned about that. You issued a, where the g. A. O. Issued a report yesterday, and your teams were founded applying leading practices and more transport reporting could help reduce risks posed by the 1. 8 billion dollar maintenance backlog. Can you talk a little bit about the geos recommendations to reduce the risk associated with that backlog . Sure, thank you. Yes. So we did issue a report yesterday. We were focused on the amount of backlog, which is the uncompleted double Level Maintenance across the fleet. Nearly all of that 1. 8 billion dollars was in the service fleet. Most of that was in some of the ships that the navy has identified, either previously or currency, for decommissioning. We made recommendations to encourage the navy to be more transparent about how collected and reported the information on backlog, both internally, as well as to the congress. We also felt the navy could do a better job of applying best practices of tracking that growth and backlog, and assessing its progress and winning it down over the years. One more question, freedom is more. And prepared testimony you said that the g. A. O. Had offered nine recommendations, and the navy has implemented five of them today. Can you talk a little bit about why the other four have not yet been implemented . Sure. So definitely want to give navy credit for implementing the five, and those are largely around the overall governance around the sigh of effort. So that is a good news story. The four that are still open, three are related to cost estimation. And that has been one of the major, frankly one of the major problems with science from day one. The cost estimates have not been on point, and they have been frankly wildly off point from the initial plan that was developed in 2018. We are encouraged by what we are hearing today, that the navy is taking better steps to get their arms around that problem. But we are gonna continue to encourage them to fully implement the three recommendations we have across estimation. The other remaining open recommendation, is around assessing and tracking overall progress with sigh of. Thank you. To me navy witnesses, we talk to us a little bit about what you are doing. Actually, im going to step. I think that has been asked by another colleague. To the navy witnesses, let me ask one thing about the pandemic. Pierre everything everybody has to do has had to change because of covid and shipbuilding on the operation of your enterprise along with it, and we are not out of it yet. I think we are seeing improvement but we are not out of it yet. What pandemic related impacts if you observed as it relates to workforce and supply chain related channeling . Yes, senator, thanks to the question i have seen some impacts. Men and women in our shipyards and the leadership in the shipyards. We kept every shipyard open every day during the pandemic, we did a tremendous job. We were able to mitigate that, to some extent by activating our reserve force that we have in each one of the shipyards. That placed some tremendous benefits. We activated the reserve force for a period of about nine months or so. Really through the worst stages of the pandemic that helped us mitigate that. I will tell you right now i think we are in a stable work environment, we are probably seeing almost near prepandemic levels in terms of the workforce on site every day inside the shipyards. Where we are starting to see some of the impacts in the supply chain. That has been discussed in different forms of that is where my biggest impact is today, sir. Thank you, as i head back to the chair and have spent times in shipyards and ship repair facilities in virginia, i just ventured a compliment for how well you are dealing with pandemic. Has to be hard to rethink everything. One of the ship repairs reminded me, you have to remember we are an industry that thinks about safety first. Not every office puts safety at the beginning, the first briefing of every day, they said this is an industry that does it, it was maybe easier for us than others to come up with the right protocols to continue to do the nations work safely, i applaud our Ship Builders and ship repairs, the navy, and our Industrial Partners for that. Madam chair, i yield back. Senator sullivan . Thank you, madam chair, i want to go back to my yorktown historical moment, that was a ship that was severely damaged, in a battle and then came to hawaii and was very rapidly prepared, participated decisively in the battle of midway. Admiral glen us and misses maurer in the june 2021 g. A. O. Report on the navys ability to repair Battle Damaged ships reveals alarming shortcomings, i want to know how we are addressing this contingency, lets assume we get into a serious naval battle with the chinese, led by the Chinese Communist party, what is our capability to repair a Battle Damaged Aircraft Carrier, a Battle Damaged submarine . My understanding from reading the report is that those ships would have to go back to the continental United States for repair. Is that true . I weigh trying to address many of the shortcomings revealed in the 2021 report . Admiral, why dont we hear from you and then miss maurer on this question . Yes, sir, for the committee upfront i will tell you i feel like we are challenged in that area. That is something our team is working on closely. We have conducted a number of different exercises. Table top exercises as well as real life exercises on Battle Damage repair and i will give you a couple of examples. The ball home richard. I think everyone knows the story of that. As we were bringing her around and into the ship dismantling yard we conducted a number of teams of navy repair experts to conduct battle assessments and rudimentary repairs to exercise some of that capability. We are also, for some of our normal repairs, i will use the u. S. As in japan where we are replacing a shaft. Looking at the and thinking about it differently, the new estimate was in 140 and 150 days. We got that down to 100 days or so just by changing our process and thinking about things differently. We are exercising that type of thought process into some of our pairs, sir, but we still have some work to do. Is it true, right now, at least for a nuclear airpods Aircraft Carrier submarine that his Battle Damaged, the only place for it to be repaired would be a shipyard in the continental United States . We could do some of that work in yokosuka, senator. We have docking facilities and certainly a full range of shipping repair and yokosuka. Also, our Major Repairs facilities are back here in the United States, particularly in puget, on the west coast. So, miss maurer do you think the rather alarming shortcomings revealed in the 2021 report on this topic have been addressed or are they still pretty glaring . I am talking about the topic of Battle Damaged ship repair. Quickly, like we did with the yorktown. Thank you, senator, i think the navy continues to be a challenge to do its regularly scheduled maintenance, we have done reviews that have shown that completing Level Maintenance has continued to be a significantly delayed, far too often, in our estimation they would basically forget late challenge to repair Battle Damaged ships as well, on the encouragement side we have seen increased navy attention and focus on the recommendations we made in the report. Which were, broadly speaking, to bring some coherence and central leadership, and focus to the issue a Battle Damage assessment and Battle Damage repair. That has happened since our reports, we are encouraged by that, we are going to continue to watch this very closely, the yorktown example, obviously it is ships that the navy is using today are much more technologically sophisticated than the yorktown, it creates an even more substantial and significant Battle Damage repaired challenge for the navy. Thank you. Thank you, chair, thank you all for being here, Mister Stephanie and admiral mcclelland, thank you for all of your hard work with regard to shipyards, do you think we have enough shipyards . Are they the right sized . Are they equipped . So we have the right labor force and are they where we need them . Thank you, senator, i will start with the nuclear base. I would say yes that the far nuclear shipyards we have, as augmented by the two private shipyards that are able to do nuclear prepare work, electric boat is sufficient. They siop efficiency is we will get, as well as sunday productivity improvements for our naval Sustainment System will provide a capacity among those six, the four public and a two private to me they demand Going Forward. On the surface side, they private shipyards, that is an Industrial Base that focuses more. I believe we have the right number of private shipyards for the surface tip side as well, sir. How about the labor force . Labor force, i think we are tapping out in each of those regions and so we have started a couple of pilot projects with the department of labor, looking at bringing and skilled workers from other parts of the country, into the areas where our shipyards are, it shipyard has a really good training program, locally, but it is not enough to support the shipyards in those areas. I can certainly give you a do back on areas we are working for, developing other parts around the country. Admiral mcclelland, do you want to add anything . Yes, sir, i would only mention that we are considering the future capability that is needed for new classes as we are working on the capacity as well, it is really all three of the efforts in siop that help us, relative to the capability and capacity, the new dry dock as well as repaired and restored dry docks, as well as ray capitalization, new and restore buildings, and the equipment,. I think upgrading the equipment is vital for the ultimate capacity of the public shipyard. Sir, all of those are being considered in siop and thought through accordingly, senator. Thank you for the question. Thanks, as i understand, communist shiner is producing about half of all ships reduced globally. They have that kind of market control for the United States and our democratic allies facing long term risk in the national emergency. If each of you could answer that. Yes, sir. From a ship building capacity, perspective. Predominantly the ship building done in the United Statess military vessels, both on the new color side, as well as the surface side, we have some good capacity in that area, down on the gulf coast in particular. Newport news, and a number of other places. Virginia, up in the northeast as well. So, we have good capacity. Certainly not near whats our competitors have, particularly china. Now. The capacity that we have is fully utilized right now. Utilized well. I would like to offer that our other competitor countries, that you mentioned senator, of a strong commercial ship in that then feeds their military. And so anything we can do to help expand the u. S. Commercial shipbuilding, that would be something that we would certainly look favorably upon to help our military shipbuilding. Anything else . Sir, and then cycle, the four Public Shipyards of course focused on the availabilities and the depot Level Maintenance. And so i think that that works handinhand as we improve our efficacy, relative to the operational availability in this siop in conjunction with the process improvements. I think that that will then help overall from a fleet availability, sir. Miss maurer. Yes, thank you senator. From the g. A. O. Perspective, some of our work has been the tradeoffs that need to be made between new Ship Construction and resources going towards maintaining ships. Sometimes those tradeoffs need to be made. We already talked about the workforce challenges. I think that is a significant constraint, as well. We should a report about three or four years ago that flagged workforce challenges facing the entire depot enterprise, not just the Public Shipyards. That continues to be a challenge and an even more significant one. It is certainly an issue that we need to be addressed and, on both the private sector, as well as a Public Sector side of the house. Thank you, thank you chair. Senator halle. Thank you madam chair, thank all the witnesses for being here. Mr. Suddenly, if i can start with you. A few weeks ago, and roll kong justified to the committee. You hear this. That the person second profiles of the april shipbuilding report did not meet or support the Operational Requirements for denying a chinese assault in taiwan. Can you help me understand why the navy would include two shipbuilding profiles in the plans that dont support the pacing scenario, and the peace and theater . Yes sir, senator. I believe that goal of the plan was to provide options, different options, to you and to the rest of the department. One option clearly is, if we had a fiscally constrained approach, what would be the best navy we can have that fiscally restrained approach. As was mentioned, by admiral john, that is a very highrisk approach. So we then also wanted to have the and the scully constrained approach. So use our range there for levels of risk to meet the threat. So, let me ask you this. How does this i have support that third profile in the plan, the one that actually will allow us to meet the pacing challenge, and basing theater all . Profile three, i think it is. Yeah, profile three. As you look at the ships that we are building that profile, compared to the capacity that we are creating through this air program, that does matchup. That as we looked further out into the out years in the four 30s in the 40s, the pierre siop will may allow us to maintain that size fleet. Okay, good. So the siop does appear that profile . Yes, sir. Because in the submarine in the aircraft raft carrier world, the profiles are not that different. And that small, delta siop will support. Okay, great. Good. Tell me, this isnt accurate, Mister Stephanie, the 20 of the navys fast attack submarines about behind schedule on maintenance and have also lost critical dive certifications, is that right . Sir, i wouldnt know the exact number here in front of me. I have to take that out for the record unless one of the other witnesses know that number. Does anybody else know . I would have to look at that to get those numbers. I dont know either. Let me ask you this them, Mister Stephanie, how more generally does the navy plan to overcome the curtain maintenance certification backlogs . Go ahead, admiral. So, there are three areas that we are working. On one of the synapse which is a recapitalization of the yard that we are talking about today. The second is how we operate the shipyards, which to the naval Sustainment System for the shipyards at secretary stephanie is talking about. That really gets into the processes. So that is how we plan the availabilities, its how we execute the availability, and so we get material into the yards and really just kind of improve those processes. And i will tell you, weve got some challenges in that area. And then the third part is, it really gets to our workforce peace and how we train the workforce. And i got a couple of times about some of the Training Programs that we had bringing people in. I will tell you, one of the things that we are seeing is, as we hire folks, more of a challenge bringing people in to the arts that have some level of mechanical experience. So by this, i mean at the journeyman or even the apprentice level, we are finding the more provokes are coming in really with little skills and we are having to put them through the entire training program. And that is something that we have continued to see, and work through over the last couple of years. Back on the naval Sustainment System piece, just a lot of work going in there. Think about the complexity of overhauling a Nuclear Powered Aircraft Carrier, and you color some rain. Getting the planning right, upfront, getting the planning right and upfront is key to that. And so, a lot of focus on that. Mucho procurement, especially under virginia classes, and scatter and prove. And then just basic daytoday execution inside the yards. So, admiral, do you have now the man power and dreadlocks available to address the current maintenance backlog . I do feel like we have the man power available. We have about 37,000 folks inside our for shipyards. That is enough man power. We need to improve our productive capacity inside those yards through the three things i just talked about. Okay, fair enough. I am just wondering, if we are having this much trouble right now service in the current submarine force pierre, how are we gonna maintain the force of the navy hopes to acquire coming years . So, again, improving that productive compasses he. I think siop brings a lot of that. The other part is, how in how operate shipyards, looking for opportunities to outsource some of this worked a commercial industry. Particularly at the component level, i think theres more opportunity to do that that would free up some of the mechanics inside the shipyard to get after what we really need to them to do. Work on the vessels on the waterfront. Great, thanks to all the witnesses. Thank you madam chair. Thank you. Im going to take a second round of questions. And actually, it is a followup to senator hawleys questions about the certification backlog. So that means that we are having some challenges in making sure that we are repairing and making ready our current ships. Im not talking about the new dry dock that has to be built. So admiral glean, especially that these are processes, and we have worked very issues. So senator, are the things that you are doing to address the certification backlog . Some specific things, that you are doing . Yes, specifically inside the shipyard. So, i talked about the number varies that we are working. And so on the production, the reduction workforce for example. Okay waterfront operations. How we manage workday today. So, over a shift, over a week, over a month, are we getting the work completed that we had planned . And we are finding that in all areas, we are not doing that. And so when you started to get that, you know why its not happening, well, the mechanics dont have the right engineering paperwork. They dont have the right materials. In some cases, we talked about the industrial plan equipment. Okay, we may not have that fully operational. And thats the sound work. So, their issues and each one of these areas that we have got to get after and, theres a lot of that that frankly is under my control to go fix. And we are doing that. Im working with admiral mcclelland to this siop program. We are getting out the industrial plan equipment. I will tell you in other areas, the information technology, we can really talk too much about that. That continues to be a challenge inside the shipyards. We have gotten some tremendous help from Navy Leadership, over the last couple of months, to upgrade some of the computers and the networks. Going to the shipyards. So those are the things that we are getting after today, to improve the productive capacity insider shipyards. In determining how to be more efficient, to enable the workers to be more efficient. Do you also question the workers . Do you get their inputs and do they see that you are making changes. Some of the changes may be very simple such as locating the equipment closer to what the upper work is being done. I assume that you are listening to the workforce. We absolutely are, let me tell you a couple of ways that we are doing that. Through the process that we have right now, and you are familiar with peoples surveys. We target the work for us for specific things in terms of where they say the barriers, where they say the roadblocks. Leadership within my organization and personally, getting into the shipyards, down to the waterfront. Sitting down and small groups of mechanics and supervisors, just kind of have a discussion and talk about what this naval Sustainment System shipyard really is. What we are trying to get after. Does it really match with some of the challenges that they are seeing day today and the work they are doing . Some cases we are seeing that closed shop, in other cases we are not, the other piece that you mentioned is the ownership and we are starting to really see at the trade level, down at the waterfront, supervisor starting to embrace the improvement initiatives that we are putting in place. That, frankly, is where it really needs to start, to sustain what we are doing. I think that is very important, i visited a shipyard in number of times in pearl harbor, it means a lot to them to be listened to and have changes made that will enable them to meet their deadlines. Before this maurer i am looking at your 2017 recommendations. There were a number of recommendations that were met, many of these have not been met. Including metrics such as a product assessing progress for each time the siop goes. It is indicated that that has not been met, is that accurate . Yes, that is correct, senator. They have a ways to go on that point . I am sorry . They still have some work there, yes. Include all of costs such as inflation program, office activities, utilities, roads, Environmental Remediation when developing a cost estimate. Has that been done . That has not been done completely, no. What about u. S. And cost estimate best practices and developing a second cross estimate . That has not been completed yet, either. Obtaining and independent cost estimate of the Naval Shipyards Program Prior to the start a project prioritization . That is something the navy says they have efforts underway to address and will be assessing later this month. They are doing that with regard to the dry dock that is being built in Pearl Harbor Naval shipyard. Thank you, the other questions i have i will submit for the record. Do you have a second round . Madam chair, i just have a couple but if you want to go vote i can handle it from here if you want me to. Please, go ahead. Actually, i am going to win a second round for the record. Senator hawley, did you have a second round . I have one or two questions, briefly. Just on this deal, mr. Stephanie, it could be for anybody, as part of that deal we have pledged industrial support to our allies. Havent we . Yes, senator, as part of the deal we will support them exactly what we do versus the uk and australia will be determined. We will be supporting that heres where im going with this, back to this madness issue and how tightly are on Maintenance Support for our own ships and subsequently, how are we going to meet our pledges and do it we need to do to clear our own maintenance backlog . Yes, sir, the august effort with frankly a 15 or 20 years out for those requirements to come into fruition. By then that is the period of time that we suspect the efforts will have matured for ourselves and provided some capital capacity. In other words, being able to execute on the deal, as to these particular terms depends on us really not getting down in this next window and clearing this backlog. Is that fair to say . In both private and public ways yes sir. Thank you, madam chair. I just want to note that when i asked a series of questions as to whether this has been met, i would ask that the navy witnesses, particularly admiral mcclelland who is overseeing siop that you will try to, that you will meet those recommendations unless you disagree with, recommendations. I should ask, do you agree with these recommendations that you have not met yet . So, senator, certainly from a Lessons Learned perspective many of the items we know were also in Lessons Learned, active plans are being developed to put in place. In some instances we will immediately see some implementation relative to, as you mentioned, senator, they work out at polar harbor for example. Reating very much were actively leaning forward on the recommendation, creating the processes to implement those recommendations, senator, looking forward to doing so. As we continue to focus on this, i for one would like to see the navy made these other recommendations of the g. A. O. With that im going to leave the record open for five days for additional questions from members, with that this hearing is adjourned. Thank you very much. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] President Biden has renominated President Biden is David Pekoske to renominated serve again as David Pekoske to administrator of the transportation serve us not security administrator the administration. Watch transportation live coverage of security administration. The confirmation watch hearing thursday at live coverage of the hearing at 10 15 am eastern on 10 15 am on cspan 3, eastern on also on cspan 3, also on our free our free video app video app, cspan now, or cspan now, online at or online at cspan. Org. Cspan dot org. Next, house hurrying looking at the pentagon report on u. S. Military sided view of those. It was the first congressional hearing on this topic in over 50 years. The house intelligence subcommittee on counterterrorism heard from u. S. Intelligence and defense officials. It is an hour to half we