The condensed version. I was born and raised in los angeles. I went to law school, Harvard Law School. And i took a different route than most of my colleagues. I went into entertainment law, which brought me back to los angeles. And in hindsight, its place i never really belonged. My heart was probably always in montana. I just didnt know it. Worked in a business of illusions, hence the book. And i lived in a land of illusions. A land fake dreams really. Thats what california is. Thats what los angeles is. Thats what the industry is. Hollywood and i made. I made a life there for 15 years until. I finally had an epiphany shortly after my was born, i realized that i was not living in the world that i thought i was living in. I was living in a world that a full american dream. By that i meant everything id worked for. All of the all of the the the accouterment. It became because i realized that i was making money that wasnt going as far. Now i had a double salary. I was living supposedly really well on paper. But at the end of every biweekly pay period, it seemed like all my money was gone. So i was. I was working so hard and yet making so much money. But i didnt really have anything to show for it. I was spending so much time in meetings where i was. Nothing was being being accomplished. I was spending so much of my life commuting to and from a job i wasnt really enjoying i wasnt spending enough time with my family. Everything i was doing began to seem very hollow. And that was the point i realized i needed to make a life change. I needed to find a path to a more sustainable. So shortly after my son was born, took a family trip. And i would say my part, my partners extended family, we to montana never been there before. Montana was always on my bucket list. Big sky country. Who doesnt want to go to big sky country . I spent a week there and a my life. It was the first time i embraced simplicity. The first time id been on a vacation where i wasnt totally just connected to wi fi the entire time i went fishing, i went boating, i went hiking and. I lived like. Like im living everyday now in montana. Came back to me, came back to l. A. With my my, my partner. And i said this, shouldnt be a vacation. This should be something we do all the time. What can we do to get there . And after, you know, a lot of jawboning and hemming and hawing, she finally agreed. And we made we made the change. We we uprooted. In 2011 and we left everything. We knew we sold our house and we went to a tiny town in montana of montana, 3500 people and. We decided i was no longer practicing law. I didnt know what i was going to do, but i knew that we were smart, we were resourceful. We would figured it out, figure it out. And i use that time to recalibrate, to clear my mind in the woods. And when i, say, in the woods, we really are in the woods. Were a 20 acre ranch at the base. The continental divide, grizzly is what they call it. I mean, literally, we have going up to our property all the time. But thats thats my path, a path of i was trying to recalibrate, find simplicity in my life and to make sense of the world. Because i should also add back then i was i want to credit myself with being incredibly thinker, but i began to realize even in 2011 that the world was not making sense, things werent adding up. We werent living in the world, that we were told we lived in. And anyone for common sense could see it, in my opinion. But what do you mean by that . Lets give an example. What i mean is that we are told we live in a country where we have free speech, but we really dont think people paying attention know that we live in a country thats its rampant censorship. Now were told we live in a country where theres an american dream, where anyone who works hard can get ahead. We now have the average american i think there was a study a survey done recently, 57 of all american couldnt even come up with 1,000 in an emergency. Were told we live in a in a in a country where we have a representative democracy. I mean, think people with common sense now understand the two establishment parties are not really doing the job they should for american people. And that deep pockets and lobbyists really steering our democracy. So thats what i meant. There are just so many things that i was taught in school, so many things that many of us are taught about how democracy works, about our economy, works about our media works. And i begin to realize over the course of 20 years that none of was really true. It all an illusion. You referred to your time in l. A. And perhaps boston when you were at harvard as safety zones. What do you mean . Well i would say that when i safety zones, these are air quotes, theyre faux safety zones. There is a black person we are trained and we are conditioned to believe that blue states, those that are democratically controlled, democratically elected. Those are the places are safe for black people. Red states, states teeming with white people, teeming with conservatives. Those are dangerous places. This is a myth that we are sold. This is illusion. What i was that the illusion is. Well, what i learned is that the reality is actually quite the opposite. In many cases. When i was in cambridge, which is a suburb of boston, which is where Harvard Law School is. I was never called the nword so many times as i was. And that city. Yes, it is. Its faux liberalism, as i would call it. I realized it was my first introduction to neo liberal neo liberalism, where its sort of a hypocritical liberalism were in is black. Were assured that white people who vote democrat have our best interests at heart. They really embrace diversity. They want to protect us from the bad people in red states, when in fact, a lot times were just as at risk, if not more at risk in those states. Heres a point of fact. Los angeles, new york, san francisco, the rates of crime. Black on black, the rates of homelessness. The rates of illiteracy. The rates are just theyre actually higher in blue states, in blue, where black people are supposedly protected by liberals who have their best interests at heart. By contrast its in red states, its in red state cities that we are actually and often black people making the most progress in homeownership and in employing it and other metrics. So thats when i say its their safe, but theyre not really safe and yet. Another point of interest is police brutality. We rarely see as much police and brutality in red states as we do in blue states. So while were were comforted in the in the blue pockets of safety, its really a false sense of comfort. But to read a quote from your book, the illusion of division, at the end of my first year at the harvard law, i gladly cast vote to elect barack as the journals first black president. Like other black editors i wanted to do my part to help him make history. But by the time obamas hope and train pulled into the station 17 years later, i didnt have the energy to hitch a ride ride. And your question is my question is, obviously, you knew president obama. Yes. Prior to that supporter. No longer a supporter. Well, i will just say that there is a difference between electing a person to be president of the United States and electing a person to be president. The harvard law review and i have nothing against barack. I think hes and as i said in my book, as law review editors went he was in my opinion, probably one of the most congenial in of ego. I think his ego was very measured. I considered Harvard Review to be an incredibly masturbatory, intellectually masturbatory. People who were 20 somethings who thought they knew much more than they really did at that age. I think there were people who were extremely arrogant and what i liked about barack was that even though he held his cards close to his vest and a lot of times he didnt know what he was thinking. I appreciated he was very kind and considerate to everyone. So thats why i that i felt comfortable voting for him because he would seem like a good person. However, i will say that after he was elected, i was somewhat disappointed disappointed with his commitment to electing or excuse me to appointing black editors on. The review. I think that there would have been a lot of hope amongst our cadre and the review that we would be better represented by the first black president of the review. I think there was a lot of disappointing meant and for that reason when barack ran for president , i was concerned and i think i got a lot of flak this. But i was concerned that black people who thought that he would make incredible strides for our community and lead us forward in a way that the white establishment hadnt. I was concerned that we would be disappointed that the community would be left disillusioned. And i dont think i think ive been proven correct. I think that there has been some disappointment in black community about what barack was actually able to accomplish, who is lisa. Lisa is my partner of 17 years. Did you get double takes in your town of 3500 people in montana when you first moved there . I would say that initially weve got double takes the way you might double takes if. If Newt Gingrich gingrich showed up at a nicki minaj concert, do you know nicki minaj . It was more like, well, thats something you dont see every day, but i will say the double takes werent laced with any sort of contempt or aggression or hostility. It was more we were more of a curiosity. And im comfortable being a curiosity because as a as a black woman and a primarily went to primarily white schools my entire life. Ive always been a curiosity. But we were we were all weve always been accepted by our neighbors, much to the surprise, i believe, of a lot of my colleagues and peers in california who really told me that i would have to be. They warned me that id have to be, you know, on guard for White Supremacy as neonazis. I was, i think i was cautioned, in a way you cant even imagine about how it would be to live in montana. And ive we were all pleasantly surprised. Lisa and i call it home now. We would never go back to california. Monica harris you tell that story in the illusion of division stefon, who is he stefon is a stefon, a friend of mine from college. Hes black. Hes gay, as am i. And he was one of the people who shortly after i moved to montana, i invited him to visit me. Hes one of the many california ive reached out to, to visit some montana who refuses to come because he, as a gay black man that he would not be safe. And one of the reasons he believes its not just because its full of the montanas full of white people conservative white people, but they have guns. And that terrifies him. So what tried to do when i first came back to california reached out to just. I tried to put his mind at ease and say, listen, its not the scary place that you think it is. Its a red state. There are a lot of white people there, conservative. They have guns. But im alive. If you visit me, you can you can leave, too. You can leave it one piece. He didnt believe me. And he, to this day, he hasnt come. And he wont visit me. But he also talked the fact that hes a black and youre a black woman and hes, quote unquote, more threatened. Yes. He did draw that distinction, which and i understand historically, i mean, when we go back to as i said in my book instances, like, you know, emmett till, for example, savannah nine is my age. We grew up with in the shadow of emmett till, knowing that black men are highly sexualized, knowing that i should say that white people see black men highly sexualized, knowing that its they often been very dangerous. Black men much more dangerous than white than black women. Physically. So its i understood his concern that is a black man he was at heightened risk. But what i was trying to express him that is that we are not living in that world anymore. Yes, its i dont want to i will not even begin to pretend that racism doesnt exist because. It does. The point of my book and what i was trying to express to find is that we have made progress. We no longer living in emmett tills. He is a black man. Even as a gay black man is safer than he would have been 20 years ago. Anywhere this country. And this is this is its such a very important and its when the media doesnt highlight and rather just dismiss. But i believe that black people, the black community in general, black black women, black men, gay black women, gay black men, we we are not living in a world where we are in as much danger as were being told. Were on. And thats thats thats really the point i was trying to get across to define. Were you trepidatious about going to montana that first time on vacation . Were you a little bit worried . No. And the reason i dont think i is because, again, i have a unique history and that i up i was grew up as a middle class man in a middle class family, but from very early age, i went to private schools and frequently almost the only black or only black student in these schools. And it was a different time there was a lot of racism, you know, quite of quite, you know, some thinly veiled hostility. But throughout all of it, i, i was able to navigate it successfully. And i never felt that there was any environment that i could go into, that i wouldnt be able to to handle. You know, i not always be welcomed. I might always be feel entirely comfortable, but what ive always tried to do and i point to i point out again in this book is recognize that a very fundamental level we all much more in common than we have separates us. So even when ive been in environments like in school, brett only been the only black person. I immediately try to find a way to connect with people. What can i do . Is there a tv show we like . Is there a sports team that we might, you know, we both might champion . Is there, you know, is there an activity we like . Hey, do you play soccer, too . You know what . Im saying . Do you do you like playing chess . Ive found that if you can connect with on just a very few, basically the very basic interests you can immediately overcome any difference as. And thats what i found in montana even though i was going to a place where most people are white, conservative, churchgoing, and i was none of those things. We connected over the things that i believe matter most right now . Our love for freedom, our love for this country, our belief that it is getting so much harder to even make a living, to to to to protect our families, to to give our children. The kind of lifestyle that we had. All of these are very concerns that americans, any race, color or gender or sexual have. And thats why i had very little difficulty acclimating in montana. The people there appreciate others with that like mind, regardless of what they look like or where sleep with Monica Harris. What did lisa mean when she said you quote i think you need to ask yourself why your journey has given you a different perspective. And what did that mean to you . So to give you some context, we had been reading an article. I had read an article to her, a medium about a the College Cheating scam. I think it occurred few years ago in which wealthy parents were literally paying tens of thousands, maybe even half a Million Dollars to get their less than qualified children into schools, which and know at princeton, we all knew this happened. These were called legacy children. They werent that bright. But if they had a pulse they could get in if you donated. You know, if the Parents Money for a gymnasium or whatever. So i was reading this article a medium written by a black woman who said the real cheating scandal is that black people are held to a much higher standard and getting into schools in a certain respect that is true, we are held to a higher standard than the legacy, the legacy students. So i acknowledge what she said but my point was i wonder why this woman is missing the bigger picture. The elephant in the room is that black or white . If you dont have a lot of money now. Its very difficult to go to college where its this. Its really more of an issue of class than race and i we live in an area that is, again, heavily white, but very, very, very few people can even have a hope of going to the schools that i went to princeton and harvard. Its just its not possible these working and middle class white people. So that was the elephant in the room i wish she had addressed. And when i that to my that concern to my my partner, she said, i see what youre saying. Why dont you think other black people think the way you do . And it took a while. I was a lot of reflection and a lot of like consternation, i should say to try to deconstruct what she was asking and and why my journey had been different. And i after weeks because i noodle this for weeks, i came to the conclusion that my journey had been different because early in my life i had been put in situations where as a young as a child, i was forced to come to terms with the fact we have more in common than we have, that separates us. There was an experience i had in high school i was a student and American Field Service and we went to i a summer in the Dominican Republic. And while i was there i was the only black in i think it was like 15 of us had in common with these students other the fact that we were american right. But when were in the Dominican Republic even though we couldnt speak spanish, even though we were we i wasnt like these kids. We bonded. The fact that we were americans that much we had in common, though we werent from the same place, even though i looked nothing like them and, i. I continued to have experiences this in college and know elsewhere through my life that would bond with people who dont like me, who are white on a variety of other reasons. Because we had common interests, whether they were in films we had common interest in books. We had common interests about our goals in life. We were connecting for reasons that had nothing to do with. Were were. Do you see the divisions in america are dont you . I see the divisions in america is largely and i see them as largely manufactured by. Our media there is a study done by a nonpartisan tank called more in common. And they found that americans but anywhere in the political spectrum Democrat Republican Independent our perception of the other side is incredibly skewed. Its and they identified something known as the Perception Gap and the Perception Gap the extent to which certain political groups or people with political allegiances think they disagree with the other side compared the extent to which they actually disagree. And more in common found something just astounding. They found that both republicans and democrats think twice as many people on the other side have extreme views than who actually do. In other words, thinks twice as many people in the Democratic Party are for immigration and democrats twice as many people in the Republican Party are prolife. So they have very, very distorted views of each other. And so more in dug deeper to try to find out what was the source of this distortion, what was causing. And they realized that it was the media and they quantified that with additional research, and they found that the more media a person consumes, the more distorted their perceptions. The other side, the their Perception Gap. In fact, people who consume most of the time as opposed to people who consume news on me occasionally have a Perception Gap thats twice as wide. So im im not naive enough to think that the country divided in some respects. I totally understand that theres always going to be division among people. But what ive discovered just personally, anecdotally, too, is that when we start actually moving into the world of a black persons moving into world, you know, just moving, moving, going to grocery stores, you in the workplace, traveling the like, theyre really going to find that they dont have very negative encounters with white people. You listen to the media, youd be likely to think as a black person that whenever you run into a white person, the chances of them being a white, the chances of them exercising their privilege, the chances of them being a karen are off charts because thats how white people are and thats what black people are. As we use, black people are hardwired think that to white people are. But when black people actually were honest enough with ourselves to think about our lived experience. When i ask my friends, what do i. I know you think that white people are, you know, a really racist, but ask yourself, when you interact with them on a daily basis, whats your experience like . Do you really find that youre constantly, you know, ignored . Do you really find that youre disrespected . And when i pose this question to my friends, my peers there, they really have to be honest me and say, no, no, its really not me. But i see it on on the news. I see what happens to other people and they take what they see in the media and they that becomes a reality and it becomes a reality that supersedes their lived experience, the distorted reality, becomes their their reality. And thats the danger. So when i say the, the division is illusory because the media is creating and its not just the media, by the way. I think Political Parties also benefit from dividing us. So its manufac your division on so many levels, in my opinion. Some of those divisions that you talk about being manufactured conservatives who embrace a pro human all lives matter philosophy become white supremacists. Progressives who want children to receive more complete understanding of the role that race has played in history become Critical Race Theory zealots. People who have adhered to a regular schedule all their lives but are hesitant to get the covid 19 jab, become anyone who has a problem with the Financial System that, serves oligarchs and devours everyone else becomes a capitalist hating socialist. Yes, these extremely we apply to other people. Yes, theyre very its created. Thats whats fueling the polarization, the possibility of seeing a new of appreciating a nuanced, of that someone can be anyone alone, the anywhere in the political expression spectrum except the extremes were rejecting that notion and. Its weird. Ive never looked in my lifetime. Ive never seen this. I dont think this is a very common occurrence in american history. We used to have a sliding scale of political and thoughts and beliefs and ideals and thats all gone now. And its probably you may be surprised to know here that i have been accused of being an enabler, White Supremacy. So it used to be years ago that you had to be white to be a white supremacist. Not any longer. Were now living in a world where a gay black woman can be an enabler of White Supremacy. Well, you do blame some of this division or the illusion division on the media. And i just to read from your book again, the media are risk averse players who are perfectly content to enable a dysfunctional they are sheep and theyre rewarded handsomely for delivering narrative conforming news. Lets face it, what media does is not science. Theyre skilled at keeping straight face while dispensing information from a teleprompter that most us are finding harder to accept and present company excluded. Of course. That said, is there a solution to this illusion of division. The solution in, my mind, is, at least in my opinion is it. Were on the cusp of a revolution. And i think its going to be a revolution in the streets. I think its going to be a revolution in our minds. I think that a growing number of people are seeing the illusions. I think polls this i think surveys reflect this. My anecdotal experience reflects this and i think if you ask yourself what youre seeing, you probably also notice a growing number of people who realizing were slowly awakening to the fact that our media and other institutions are creating a perception or a perception of division that doesnt really exist when a Critical Mass of americans not only realizes, but has the courage to speak this truth. And i do believe that day is coming when a Critical Mass of us this point, we will the illusion we will come together and that we have more in common than we have that separates us. But right now, seeing this, taking the stand, speaking these words is almost heretical because it goes against the narrative. But i do. The day is coming when more of us will have the courage to speak. Lets what i believe is obvious at this point, Monica Harris his first book was reality bites. The book weve been talking to about here at the freedom fest is the illusion of. If people are interested in going to your website, do you have a website . Yes, its w w w dot. Lets get unplugged dot com. Lets get unplugged. Yes, unplugged. And whats that whats the focus of that. Well, im im on unplugging from the illusion, the distractions and the deceptions that are permeating American Society right now. Monica harris thank you for your time. Thank im susan crawford. Is the john a riley clinical of law at harvard