And he looked at me and he said, you know, we dont picture you with White House Reporter at the New York Times. And i said, why and he goes, we picture you at the New York Daily News or the chicago tribune. And i said, you mean im too or im a woman and hes like, yeah. And he ordered martini, but bush himself was fantastic to me. He, he treated the men and the women just the same. And he would get upset with things. I but unlike later president s, he wouldnt cut me off. You know and he always he had a 30 year correspond months where hed send me notes and he always described it as he joked that he told shrink it was a love hate relationship. But obviously he didnt go to a shrink because the bushes not very introspective so. So he yeah he he was sort of fascinated me like and he would write these great notes a decent like john adams would write you letters. They werent very much more goofy but sweet and and often when my mom died, he wrote me a note and it was very poignant. He was a really cool guy. Oh, tell the kennebunkport story. Oh, this is. Well, some of the notes dealt with why he still liked even though i was hard on his song i was hard on that song because i just thought iraq was a big mistake and it made me sad. I think George W Bush could have been a very popular president if he had had more confidence, but his dad put all these mandarins around him that he had had cheney and, colin powell and rumsfeld and cheney brought in rumsfeld and who was an enemy of his style, actually tried to mess with him all the and so i think then he listened to them. If he had had more confidence and had people, you know, own circle of people because cheney and rumsfeld, you know, superimposed a lot ideas theyd had for decades on w and, you know, just that whole presidency on make me sad. But one time w was visiting in kennebunkport for some family and im in the hotel and the phone rings and its rove and he goes okay, ive been delegated this secret, dont say anything but, you know, bush senior wants to see you. So here are the two president s, the father son were secret Service Agents in this little compound in maine. And bush senior wanted to sneak somewhere to have a cup of coffee without his knowing. It was something so crazy right out of a movie. And so i was for it. But the father could never figure out how to elude all the various secret service detail. So we didnt do it then. And you sort of an interesting relationship with obama to obama. So um, when obama started campaigning i was so excited because i thought it would this transformational thing and in american politics and i on the road with him for a year and you know kind of gushing and stuff but then he became president and when they become president you know oh actually sorry happened before he became president he was trying to get some foreign experience. So we went to berlin and paris and we were all on the plane with him and he called the reporters up for 15 minute interviews and i was one of them. And i thought. Okay, wow. Now im scottie. You know, im going to go in the front of the plane and this is going to be president. This cool guy is going to tell me some great scoop, and im going to be famous. So i go to front of the plane and he turns to its and he goes, can you leave us alone . And think, wow, okay, here it comes. And he looks at me and he goes, you are really irritating. And i thought, youre not even president , you know . And and then he just repeated it, not my heart sank and he goes, you set the zeitgeist. And i know like this, like, is your setting for. And i had, i had had some fun with the fact that obamas very and in the primaries where you know there are a lot of groups you have to go to bar and you have to drink beer and you have eat waffles and french fries and all that stuff. And obama could not do it. You know, he would just hand off the waffle or the french fry or the beer to his party. Man reggie love. And so i had written some fun stuff about that and i think he liked on dive and he was always trying to order on dive and dive bar so but he was gentle poking but he hated that. And so he didnt give me the interview. He just gave a lecture and and then when trump got in, that was sort of funny because you had been interviewing him since all the way back to the eighties. And so there was like a lot of history between you two already. Yeah. The funny thing about trump was, you know, i had literally interviewed him for 30 years as this is a weird story he. In 1987 gorbachev came to america and. I was covering gorbachev and he met with businessmen in new york. So i called the business man afterwards to see what gorbachev said. And i called donald trump and i called him before the meeting and after. So before the meeting he said, we cant trust russians. Theyre totally untrustworthy. The you know, we cant have anything to do with. And then after the meeting, i called back and he goes, i love the russians. Theyre so great. I love them. I said, what happened . He goes, they want to build a trump tower in moscow. So then kept in touch with them and he loved do lightning rounds where you just mention things in the news. Not so much politics, but just Different Things that were going on. And hed give you a one line answer and you know, interviewed him all those decades that never, never occurred to me he wont be president because mostly he would say, like, sadly, heidi klum is no longer a ten. And then this one time he goes howling barry well, her face is a a the upper to the waist is a tan and then legs are slightly less from that. I mean, this is a typical trump canvas and so and my wildest imagination i did not think this guy would ever president , much less that my family would be trump stars and and what about the current president. Oh we have a really crazy relationship so you yeah i knocked him out of the race because i the story about neil kinnock because President Biden used to be or maybe i dont know hes a little bit of a fabulous but hes a sweet fabulous not like trump he was an evil fabulist but so he there was this guy neil, who was the labor guy and he gave this great speech because he was welsh and england and biden it and thought he had a similar life. So he got overly excited and used to kind use chunks of it and funny part was biden. What biden to was, you know the guy said he played but what neil kinnock was talking about was soccer know so biden is taking lines and he took that he came from a coal mining family because you know identifies with pennsylvania but he didnt really have any coal mine miners his family so it wasnt it was it wasnt some big investigative scoop it was more of a feature about how he adopted this guys and but anyway, he he got knocked out of the race. This is amazing. He also he also had i also broke this story that he was he had seen Robert Kennedy speeches, but that wasnt his fault, his aide, pat caddell, inserting them without his knowledge. But anyway so the thing was a big mess and he dropped out but for some crazy reason over the decades we had you know, i dont have friendships with politicians. We were very cautious all and he always invited me to his white house i mean the Christmas Party at the Vice President s mansion. And i you know hed call me and talk whether he should run and hed tell me what he and his son, beau, really thought of the clintons. And, you know we had a tight relationship, ty. You know, for a journalist and a politician and i a year out from you know, i was one of the few journalists who thought he could and but obama had i mean, he could run in thousand 16, but obama had decided to give the excalibur to hillary. So there was way, you know, obama took him to lunch and said, youre out. You know, usually the Vice President gets nod. But in that case, obama said no, but i thought he could have won despite morning about but anyway he about a year out when hunter got involved with his sister law and the bidens froze out kathleen his daughter in law. I just wrote a column very suggesting that he might want to get it together on the family a little bit and then he cut me off. So i dont get to go to any of the column briefings with david and all the guys. So i start now. Lets. Oh, yeah. So who was your if you had to pick over the years . Whos your favorite subject. Oh, well, i do these styles pieces also. Oh aside from politics and, um, you know, i just took a greek mythology at columbia. I was getting my masters and, uh, the greek gods remind me very much of celebrities, you know, they, theyre wanton and they do what they want and theyre larger than life. And there are in any consequence, except maybe for alec baldwin, but but, you know, you dont i dont relate to them like, oh, heres a nice person im to stay in touch with you. But, uh, someone who very extraordinary and very nice to interview is tom ford, the designer and he i just him because he was unusual hes a triple virgo and he thinks there 20 different shades of black and when he was little he brought a black attache case instead of a book fact and like me he unscrews bulbs light bulbs in restaurants. If he thinks the lighting is bad, it shows his bald spot and he when he lived in london. He had a black with just black calla and black flowers. And so i arrive for the interview, this hotel suite and in la and hes raring arching the furniture and the reason its not annoying with you know he doesnt finicky is because he cant help it like he loves beauty and esthetics so much he just cant help himself. So like you know hes very driven and he told me he got you know he had has ranch in santa fe and he designed it and there was color and then he he just cant have color this house so he changed all color. I mean, you know, hes haunted by beauty and. So anyway, i, i on a tom ford dress, which i couldnt afford a red one for the interview and it had a velvet belt and with hooks and then the laces and i put the hooks and the front and went through the whole interview and on the flight home from l. A. And im reading page six and i see Priyanka Chopra in the same. And i realized i had the belt on backwards for the whole interview. And i thought, oh god. So i called tom ford. And i said, did notice i had the belt on backwards. He goes, of course, but he never but he never anything. And so why hes one of the few people ive actually become with, you know, that you would want to be friends with. You wouldnt think it because you think hes very rarefied but hes a texas boy. Hes super fun. And, you know, his husband was a Richard Buckley was a super cool guy who was a fashion journalist and he got cancer and horrible, horrible like throat cancer and tom took care of him for like years. So really cool guy. Yeah. And one of the interviews we did during our time together that i think was really fun was jane fonda was cool too. Sometimes, you know, as we get were more willing to, say thanks. I find my mom when she got older told me where i was conceived. So jane fonda just is at a point where letting it rip and we did a video interview with her during covid and she was so much fun and she told that her biggest regret was she had a chance to sleep with marvin gaye and didnt do it. Chris, she was married to hayden and then later she found out he had a picture of her on his fridge and she was saying she really wished she had, as of old colleague of, mine used to say jumped on that while it was there to jump on and she also said found Marlon Brando disappointing and they were in a movie together but i think she was talking about the not anything more i dont know but jane fonda she was wasnt she shes so cool. Yeah. Shes lived like a five different lives. Yeah. And who was the was your least favorite. Well, this wasnt at the, um, yeah, it was at the times, but it one of these style pieces that i do now. But a long time ago i didnt interview with Kevin Costner for robin hood and he i loved Kevin Costner. I just loved everything he did. I was so excited to meet him. And i think i flew down to new orleans. And so then we were walking toward a restaurant. There were these two older women on the street whod just said, oh, my gosh, mr. Costner. And he began yelling at them was not good. And then we get the interview and i did it. And he very jagged and jittery and not nice. So then the interview ends and he me and he goes, i dont you to play this tape recording for your girlfriends. And i was just like, ive interviewed paul newman and i didnt that and he was paul newman and youre Kevin Costner so yeah and then he puts his hand on my and squeezes and dont worry everybody has a day and so ive done a bad interview. So i am not watching yellowstone. Yeah, but i watched the prequel because Harrison Ford is nice and mirren is incredible. And i was i noticed i think this week or last week, um, christies or sothebys of them had andre leon talleys all his artifacts up for auction. He the fashion legend for god and you guys had a really funny relationship. It was cool. See that when i worked for too and you wouldnt you know hes, an expert on like chiffon and french history and couture. But maureen would often call him for his political analysis, which i thought was really funny and, you know, just talk a little bit about that. Yeah, when sean when sean first started, he came to me he goes what chiffon. Oh, but andre land was an incredible person im still in mourning for him i mean like tom ford, he was unique. You just are not going to meet another like that ever. And i met him because i a piece when my mom died about my mom was like my mom when she was 18 applied to be a journalist at the Washington Post and the guy in charge looked at her and he goes journalism is no place for a woman you know and sent her away. But she loved to write and so i did this piece and get this letter and its in these large, loopy handwriting and. Its andre who id never met telling me about, how much his grandmother had meant to him and so then he sent me from the photo closet, a pair of pink crocodile stella, and sending those back was the hardest thing ive ever done. So i wrote him and i said, im not allowed to take presents, you know. So here they are back. But then over many years we became good friends. So we spend thanksgiving together. Once. And, you know, we went to opera in new york and he took me to the white house. There was an inaugural brunch in 2012 and were in the receiving line from michelle was drop dead gorgeous and obama and obama looks at me and he and says to andre this your date. And im like boy you know but andre andre but for obamas first inaugural when i was still really excited about obama, andre came and he stayed with me, it was supposed to be one night, but got the flu and he had to stay a week and. I dont know if you guys saw that old movie, the man came to dinner or home or the ransom of red chief. Someones in your house, but youre a captive. And it was like that. Hes in my bed because. The guests are in bed. Wasnt big enough for him so hes every time i would climb the three flights of stairs and go into his room, hed be like, i want turkey chili now. Or i want chocolate ice cream, or go get caramels from such and such. And i was like by the end of the week, i was sick because was like running all over town. But it was also super fun because we laid in bed and watched old french movies from the sixties and he idolized style for me and so then after many years of being friends, we go out to dinner in new york to Exchange Christmas presents, and i gave him something lame and opened mine. And he has bought at an auction one of Joan Crawfords old saybrook totes with the j. C. Key in the lining and i just thought i would die because basically my whole life is turner movies. I mean, film vixens on turner classic movies. I base my whole life on and so its incredible politically correct. I cant wear it anywhere. But sometimes when it snows, i just put it on and walk around the block. And didnt tell you that melania like the best moisture. Oh yeah. This is so funny. So he did. Melania trump for vogue styled it and they were on the cover. He went to paris her to couture is to pick out the gown and the trousseau and everything and. He said to me, melania is the best moisturized person i have ever met. And then he goes, Kim Kardashian, a close second. Melania. And he was really about, you know, a lot of designers like tom ford, i think wouldnt design for melania andre was tortured but then my first styles piece actually was andre saying, no, he couldnt he couldnt support that white house after guess after the muslim ban and some other things they were doing he just he couldnt so then Kim Kardashian got the nod as the best moisturized person and when look back on our five years together by far the most you know, out of all our adventures, the most treacherous intense episode we ever had was when we did this big story with uma thurman. And she was finally ready. Talk about it. Harvey weinstein had assaulted her and she believe that Quentin Tarantino tried to kill her, he put her in this unsafe car and she had this big crazy wreck that happened on the set of kill bill that had never become public. And it took her 20 years of guilt tripping. Tarantino to sort of wrest the footage from him. She had it, and she was finally ready to talk about it. So she went. She chose maureen. And in the process of the story were just all these different crazy hollywood people lying us and Harvey Weinstein took my checking emails and spun them all around and gave them the tmz and they tried to sort of screw us over on the story, come out first and when the piece finally came out, we were so stressed out and it made like an incredible avalanche of news on a saturday morning. And we did what we always do when we stressed out, which is go to barneys and start drinking and were sitting there eating french fries, sitting there in the restaurant and both tables, either side of us are talking about the footage and the story and were just like so stressed out. But we got through it, no corrections, no lawsuits. And it was just one of those rare moments you rarely, rarely get as a journalist where you feel like youre right in the center of the hurricane. But youve had a few those moments in your career. And i just wonder when you look back what else was at that level . Well its so crazy, especially in this era where the news is coming from so many different places when the news seems to stop and on the story youve written for several days, it is so crazy, this feeling you do feel like youre a hurricane. But the bad part is its what you dream of a journalist, but youre so scared during that period that youve made mistake or someones going to say you got something wrong that you cant. We were literally like, how . Oh, in my house, you know, for three days because we didnt know what. Quint tarantino wouldnt even know. Hes shauns idol, but he wouldnt even when him i told him return my call. So i didnt get to interview him and. We thought, what if he comes out and says none of this is true . And so we were literally crouched in my house for three days, scared to death, and then on the third day gave an interview to a hollywood publication and said, yeah, that happened. Im i shouldnt have you know. Done all this stuff to omar and tried to kill my engineer. So youre totally relieved but by the time youre relieved and you feel safe the news thing has moved on so you cant enjoy it. And that happened to with i did a piece david geffen when he turned on the clintons and you know it was just this thing where no one wrote about anything else for a week and you know but i have to say youre going to be in a foxhole with anyone. David geffen, he is tough. Son of a. He is not going to desert as many people would. And the other one we did together in san francisco, we went to interview nancy a few years ago, and sean and i are i know now you know we tried, but were not always best news hound. So nancy said this thing i asked her about the squaw rod and she said well squad you know. Yeah they rule on twitter but there are only votes. And sean and i didnt anything of it and then we were kind of like, should we even put it in the we thought shed said it already. And were working on the transcription. We just set it in the last minute. We sort of stuck it in and it like news in washington for like three months. It was what was the headline democrat. Democrat no fight. I was cutting out the york post coverage of it. It made the it just like it was everywhere for weeks. It just dragged on and on and it was this internecine democratic caucus, you know, civil war, all with this one comment that she said to us, when we were having breakfast. Yeah. And aoc said she was some racist that caused a whole other thing. But again, pelosi, i would say is very similar to geffen you can feel safe in a foxhole with her not going to turn on you. Shes not to come back and say, well, that isnt what meant. You know, it was misinterpreted or that they are just super, super tough people. Yeah. I think when they speak its like very deliberate. They know what theyre saying, doing, you know, and i know this make me sound like a total suck up, but you have your its a little late for that, but youve, you know, you, you, youve trained lots of Young Journalists her her assistants before all went on to do really cool things like Ashley Parker she at the Washington Post, a bunch of pulitzers. Julie bosman, the Times Chicago Bureau chief Alex Thompson hes like this very after biden reporter right now. So i just wonder for, you know, a Young Journalist or you know anybody might have kids or nephews or whatever who want to get into the news mean how do you think about training reporters and well not any other columnists do this because it does involve i mean for me and involves a whole nother level of mentoring. And when sean would travel with me, i to pay for that the times wasnt going to pay that and i bring them on interviews with prime ministers or whatever, not president s, but well, jimmy carter. Oh yeah. I took sean to interview jimmy carter. That was the cool interview. And at the end of, you know, an hour and a half fantastic interview, i pressed wrong button and killed the tape. So i really glad i had sean with me back up. Yeah and but anyway like tom friedman has, you know what used to be called secretary and um, and. I just figure because i went through it myself having a hard road up that, you know, heres a spot at the New York Times and if you can get a toehold, you know, that can Amazing Things for you and in case you know i deserve no credit for him being an amazing writer he came that way but you know i was able to kind of give it a little polish books to read, movies to see and, you know, its very gratifying when. I see ashley winning a pulitzer, chris and julie doing so well and sean doing so well. And alex, you know its you feel youve actually given someone this whole different life they wouldnt have had she made me quit smoking read Edith Wharton enroll in french lessons and took me to barneys was like pretty woman basically. Unfortunately guys have gotten him smoking again i saw him last night. Well, i a couple of drinks its vacation and so. This is sort of a follow up but i just wonder because you in as an opinion columnist back in the day it was like William Safire and these sort of like you know these that the media was just so different that everybody would read the papers and now in the era of twitter and you know its like it seems like everybodys opinion columnists. And i just wonder how think about your role and how thats changed and you know, the nature of the job and the industry over the years how its changed. Yeah, this is so funny, so when i started, you know, even more before me like, Walter Lippmann or people there were famous scottie reston, male opinion columnists and everyone would wait, like with the hush for three days or four days, whenever would give their opinion. Like, whats walter going to say with scottie resting on it . Say and obviously were in much different times now because opinion and news have flipped and now opinion flies faster than news and theres so much psychological pressure come up with something original because any of you could put tweet out and Say Something more original than im sitting thinking up for a column and its, you know, its sort of how how do you do that . And i first started this shift was taking place and i, i was so stressed out and my skin broke out and my hair started to fall. And one night i passed the in my house and my face was with clearasil and. I was eating Kentucky Fried Chicken and i thought, wow i bet bill sapphire has a better life, but is you know, it is really to think of original things. Thats the thing. What are you to say that every body else on the planet is not saying so . Its very different job than it used to be was also disorienting because the people who read the times are so smart that we would look at the Comment Section and wed be like, thats a really good point. Like, why dont we put that in the column . Even letters to editor. Yeah. People who read the times so smart. Its scary. Like for the first many, many more than a decade, i would wake up in the middle of the night and think, who wants . Hear what i say in the New York Times. You know, its just a crazy thing. But you just got to try. But another i think that sets maureen apart is a lot of the columnists approach it from sort of ideological position or its a little or heres the world as seen from x person on political spectrum, but youre not really. It took my column a long time to really gel because im i think i was of the first ones or the first one who didnt come from one side or the other is an ideologue. Just not how i think write. And you know, its funny because when trump burst onto the scene all, the other columnists would go down to cafes and paris, texas, try and understand this beast called the trump voter. And i would just go home for christmas, you know, no. And what about social media and or is there anything about that thats changed the way you do your job . Well, shaun used to care of that, and hes so brilliant it and i dont im not any good at it, but we went to interview Bernie Sanders and what was the stimulus bill or. Yeah, it was. He was a couple. Yeah. The first the infrastructure stimulus, whatever, whatever. And so i get a kick out of Bernie Sanders because hes so rigid and one time you know when he was running for i got a ten minute interview with him and it happened to be valentines day and so i said mr. Sanders did you get your wife something for valentines day and he began yelling at me, valentines day, its not important, you know, the is important or whatever. Health care is important. Stop talking nonsense. So i always thought it would be really funny to go Bernie Sanders and then ask him a bunch of super frivolous questions. So he wanted to push his bill and it was very detailed. And so we go to vermont we had our frivolous questions ready and we asked him what he thought of Britney Spears and do lip he gets this piece of paper out of his where hes written down all the important policy things. Hes shoving it in face and she just like waving it. Like Britney Spears. No, Britney Spears took a picture of it and it went, yeah, but at least now i know what Bernie Sanders thinks of Britney Spears. Yeah, it was a little disorienting running maureens twitter account because has, like, a trillion followers and. It was she doesnt look at any of this. So it was all like on me. Every now and then wed write something that was either really spicy or that people on twitter didnt like. And id look down at my phone and it was just like, i got one notification once that was like it was like from twitter and it was, youre getting a lot of notifications, like, heres how to handle that. I would turn phone off because it was just out control. Shed be like, hows the column doing . Id like, well, starting a conversation i am. I too sensitive . When i was little thought you could die. If someone criticized, you could die like it was leukemia or something. You would die if. My parents criticized me, so my family off their chairs laughing. And then im in this profession where its like the godfather. I take one of theirs, they take one of mine. We go to the mattresses. Because if i actually looked at what anyone was saying about me, i would just sink into a hole and never be seen again. Yeah, but i was the keeper of the grievances. Were both so we, you know, its like irish amnesia. Never want to say yeah i made i made a dead to me list once of people i had breakfast with and then i forgot and left it on the shuttle. That was bad. But wed, wed see somebody in washington Cocktail Party and id be like, we dont like that person this week, you know, were not going to talk to them. Yeah, yeah and were just a minute left. But i just wonder finally how you think how do you think bidens doing and any predictions for 24 or. Yeah, trumps in a funny grudge match with ron sanctum arminius, as he calls them, and biden, you know, i wrote a column saying maybe should take the win hes had a good run and not go for a second term, but usually in my experience, studying when men have power, dont give up power. So i dont think thats going to happen. I just wish hed let me back into the columnists briefings. President biden,