Transcripts For CSPAN3 Legacies Of The Civil War 20150316

Or does affect someone. What we thought we knew or understood 80 years ago, or even 30 years ago was sometimes now no longer believed, or we understand differently. The symbols that we once embraced as a nation are now seen by some as offensive. The conventional wisdom that often undergirds our understanding of our past is often so simple as to be wrong or at least incomplete or debatable. So we challenge, we debate, and that really ticks people off. Which brings me of course to the civil war. In its place the legacy in american culture. I would offer it as a more complicated place. There is no event in our history we argue about more than the civil war. From its cause to its purpose to the details of 100 battles, we argue. We cant even agree on its name. Rephrase variously depending on the perspective of the namer, the war of northern aggression, the war between the states, the war of the rebellion which was once the official u. S. Government name for a good the war for independence, the second american revolution, the war for emancipation, and probably two or three dozen more. In no other time do we have a historical memory so carefully considered, so consciously shaved and manipulated consciously shaped and manipulated as a civil war. No other event in our lifetime has active constituent groups that patrol the intellectual universe trying to ensure that americans see this event in a particular way or from a particular perspective. Today, i would like to engage in a bit of a discussion, engage you in a bit of a discussion posing you in question, answer a few, but i have no idea what the answers are. All all of it is to provoke some thought and some consideration among you. Now, bear with me, some of these questions may seem a little discordant, scattered at first but i will try to bring them all together here at the end. I want to start with something that i have been thinking about the last year. America preserves battlefields, somewhere between 6080,000 acres. Just a quick informal survey online suggests that americans have preserved more Civil War Battlefields than the rest of the world combined has preserved for all wars in all of history. Im talking about formal reservation. More preserved battlefield land related to the civil war exists than rest of the world combined for all wars fought. Why is that . How did that come to be . Why is it that a society that likes to think of itself as being nonmilitaristic, and in our essence we are preserves thatll field land to such a degree . Now, this is one i will offer some ideas on. Our traditional view of the civil war was born of the postwar time. One of the most remarkable phenomenons in American History or World History is the reconciliation from the reunification of our nation. Think about the fact that in the United States cap today are seven statues to men who supported the rebellion against the federal government during the American Civil War. They dont do that in syria or libya. They do it here. That is remarkable. Now there are lots of ways, and the reconciliation was incomplete in some areas as scholars have shown. How did that come to pass . Part of the answer is that when you want to make up with somebody, you find the Common Ground. A place were you can both be comfortable, you do that in life , and some degree we did it on a national level. The aftermath of the civil war had races and immense issue in america. Slavery and its legacy was a painful one. There were a few things that everybody could agree on, at least most people, not everybody. The american soldier, dressed in great or blue, was an amazing phenomenon of history. And so in our search for Common Ground, we found that ground literally on the battlefield. The Great Movement for preservation of battlefields was initiated in the 1880s and 1890s. When these veterans were at the height of power serving as government and industry leaders. It was because the battlefields ironically, these places of conflict became places of comfort. So americans have always put tremendous emphasis on these places as a tool of reconciliation. Manassas, the key part of the battlefield the, donated to the park service, stipulated that the government would i care and preserve this battlefield without prejudice to north or south and not subtract from the glories due to confederate heroes. The dedication speech at frederick bergs park i helped manage. In 1927, it said we do more than dedicate these fields and memories of things that are passed. We consecrate them in the spirit of lee and linking to a more perfect understanding between south and north and to an abundant increase in brotherly love. The National Park service took responsibility for these battlefields five years later. For the next 50 years or so they would faithfully carry out that charge. To manage these places as places of reconciliation with the rhetoric of affection that surrounds them always, where americans can come together and understand the war on a very human level. Just to give you a sense of how deep this tradition is and how it is perceived by the public, a couple of years ago a colleague of mine and i were doing a tour in fredericksburg for black churches in town to we were doing it to her to her to of slavery related sites. Ur people were very interested. One gentleman pulled me aside and said to me, are you going to get in trouble for doing this . I said, what do you mean . Are you going to get in trouble for doing this to her tour . Are you allowed to do this sort of thing . I found that have deep perception is. Now, heres another question for you. 50 years ago, the nation came together to celebrate ubiquitous centennial of the American Civil War. The one 50th has a different tone. The 150th has a different tone. Everything that smacks of celebration and there is a more contemplative approach. We talk about that in our organization. Why the change . What in 50 years has changed . We have gone from celebrating to consciously and in a reflective way commemorating this war. I think there are a lot of things. Since 1963, however many years that is, 40 some years, we have been at war for 24 years. In my lifetime, our country has been at war for 24 of my 56 years. There is no other time in American History that approaches that. We are tired of war. We are tired of war. For sure. There are other things. Our culture has changed. The late, great Jeremy Russell who is the great advocate for thatll field preservation, and as many of you know what often argue against the complexities of these stories. He said, it was his view, but it applies to the centennial time this nations future and survival rests on all americans having a shared experience, a shared understanding of American History, a shared language, and a shared culture, culture that unites us, not when the divides us. Common understanding and a single memory. The obvious question is whose memory . White southerners . Northern abolitionists . Was it emancipated slaves . Whose memory do we take . Of course, prior to the centennial, that was an easy question. Because history to some degree always reflects those who possess or are in power. Since the end of the sesquicentennial, since the beginning of the centennial, the dynamics of our political conversation, the dynamics of power within our society have changed dramatically. Womens rights movement, you will hear a great do more about civilians than you ever did before. I think most of us are glad for that. It is an important part of the story. The civil rights movement, of course africanamericans are going to seek to hear their story in our nations history. And so it goes on. Nukes scholarship new scholarship, the job of academics is to agitate us all and some fashion, to provoke us, and they do. They challenges. They ask questions. Some of them we dont like. Some of this makes us feel a little uncomfortable or unstable. Now, all this and a lot of new scholarship on something called memory, memory studies that have flooded the market in the last 10 years, have convincingly shown us that thoughtfully consumed that many cultural assumptions about the war, though simplicities that we cherish so much, were indeed purposely shaped in order for that nation to achieve reconciliation. And now, we are in a different time, and so many of those assumptions are being challenged. Slavery was not benign. We treated our slaves well. You often heard that. I heard that in my career. We have all heard that. We know that is simply not true. Nor was it an honest in virginia in 1860 or 1861. The emancipation proclamation was not meaningless. Grant was not simply a pusher. Lee was hardly devoid of political lincolns views evolved as the war progressed. Slaves did not stand by morley standby loyalty standing by for southern independence and confederate victory. All of these things have been challenge, and most of them have been illustrated to be far more complex than the simplicities that we once embraced. Some of them have been proven just flat wrong. Now, none of this should be a surprise to any of you are any of us, because americans always challenge each other. That is what americans do. We challenge each other to be better constantly be better in the present, and we challenge each other to see our history more clearly as well. Sometimes that challenge comes from ink tanks and people sitting in big towers think tanks and people sitting in big towers, or in the congress or white house. Just as often, it comes from the people themselves. It is this process of constant challenge that renders what one generation believes insufficient for the next. It has always been so. It always will be so. Content as we might be with our perspective on certain issues today, our grandchildren 50 years from now are going to look back and say what were you thinking . Just as we look back on those state troopers at the Edmund Pettis bridge or pick a dozen moments in American History. What were they thinking . This process of challenge and revision and improvement is what america does. It is noisy, raucous, sometimes painful, but arguments and failure and discord are every bit as much a part of the American Fabric as success virtue, and community. Americans will never sit quietly. Its conscience will never be cold. Its just the way that we are. Is conscience will never be calmed. In the 50 years since the centennial, we have changed. We should not be surprised by that very in the 50 years going forth, for those of you here for the bicentennial, we will have a very different conversation. Here is another question. Why do we argue silver surface late so will sit firstly is there at a historical topic in American History where there is a wider span of opinion than that question . A ladder volume of discourse than over that question a louder voice in a disk course than over that question . Why do we argue about it now . If you roll back time to that secession of 1860 in 1861 and set down and set down with the delegates of the virginia or South Carolina Secession Convention and said to them, we know what you are doing and it has nothing to do a slavery. They wouldve said, what . At the time, of course, they said it had something to do with slavery. Not everything to do with slavery, but certainly something to do with slavery. After the war and i went suggest you to the main spring in an answer to this question is rooted in our very, very personal connection to this war. How many of you are related to participants in the war . Holy cow, probably 60 of you. How many of you are related to a confederate who fought in this war . Most all of you are. And so, when the president of the confederacy in 19 us to 1902 stood before her convention and declared that this is loyalty to principle, not a building monuments, but the vindication. When a former confederate general charged gave the charge of the veterans to the sons, he said, to use sons of cover letter veterans, we dedicate this to the cause. If you want to google that, it appears online more than 8050 times, the charge for the sons of confederate veterans. [no audio] they could not agree. So you see by these issues of slavery, the cost of war, all of these things didnt disappear from postwar discussions. The bitterness did not all go away. In many ways, they were over all by the search for Common Ground, and that search for Common Ground focused on the common virtues that northerners and southerners shared, which are found where . On the battlefields. Even extends in today, a former heritage for the sons of confederate veterans, we dont need to give visitors an entire history of the antebellum south so they come away with one side or another. Why is there this sensitivity . Even today . I would suggest to you it is because as this room evidences so Many Americans have not just an intellectual or patriotic or scholarly connection to the war but a personal connection to the American Civil War. If slavery caused the war, what does that say about your ancestors . Does it make you uncomfortable . It certainly makes many people uncomfortable. Now, i would suggest to you that we ought to be at a point in our National Development where we can see that the deeds of our forebears are not always a testament on their character. Indeed, ought we not to see those deeds rather as a testament on the morals of the time . I think all of us hope as we sit here today and ponder our grandchildren and greatgrandchildren, thinking back upon us, and saying, what . That they dont interpret the issues that have permeated our lifetimes and with which we have struggled as a society is a testament on us as individuals but rather as a testament on our times. And times change. So, another question. You can start squirming any second now. [laughter] did the Union Soldiers, some of them racists dockworkers from boston and philadelphia, or illiterate farmers from western new york, for minnesota, or even lawyers from new york city, the Union Soldiers who marched and april of 1865. Did march for freedom . The day marched into slavery . Did they march two and slavery . I will put the question differently and provoke some shaking or nodding subheads. Did the confederates who rushed onto the field at gainesville or held the Stonewall Inn fredericksburg, did they fight to preserve slavery . To protect slavery . I dont see anybody offering up any opinion in terms of shaking or nodding their heads. If you work it is civil war site for any amount of time ive heard it, patrick has heard it you will hear Something Like this. My great great grandfather is from the Shenandoah Valley or pick your place he did not own any slaves there he sure as hell did not fight to preserve slavery. He fought to defend his home the way of life, and the community and his city. The civil war was not about slavery. You are wrong to tell people that it was. Have you had that happen . We have all had that happen. In fact, weve had it happened a couple times a month, if not more. And so what do you say . Oh, yes, the war was about slavery. Your grandfather fought to preserve slavery. Thats not likely to receive well, thats likely to receive a letter to a congressman more than anything. Americans have gone to great efforts to redefine and sometimes reunderstand the issues that surround the war. Most descendents see the war through the lens of their personal connection to it. Their great great grandfather from woodstock, virginia, who joined this can virginian infantry, for example. Most resume that their ancestors did not fight, were not motivated, did not march off to war saying, we need to preserve slavery. We need to keep black people in bondage. And, most people who tend to believe that or believe that about their ancestors, many of them might be right. Some surely did. Many surely did not. Does that mean that the war that slavery was not central to the war . I raise this issue and use this to make a point. We have done a very poor job in our nation of making a distinction between the nation and the soldiers who fight for it. We have in america to a degree that in many ways is astonishing allowed the personal motivations of why soldiers fight to define the National Purpose for which they fought. My grandfather did not own slaves the work not been about slavery. You know what . Soldiers go to war, choose to enlist and carry a weapon and enter places of danger for a million reasons. To defend their homes. They love their country. They have been asked told. A million reasons. Most of them noble. But nations go to war for a list of reasons that are are narrower. That list also bears very little resemblance to the list of reasons that motivate soldiers. One of the things that we have not done particularly well is to make the distinction that distinction. Nations go to war for policy and purpose. We understand those generally not so much lately but generally we understand those pretty well. Soldiers go to war for many, many reasons. A couple of years ago, i was doing a program. We were talking about the legacies of war. He said, the competitor confederacy is. The confederacy is toxic. How could he have such a different view of the confederacy than you might. He, doesnt see the war, or the confederacy through the lens of personal connection. He sees the confederacy through the lens of national the confederacy fought to sustain and perpetuate differences. That its all between itself and the rest of the union. Thats what brought on the war. The differences. Those differences are very clearly laid out and statements of policy and practice. The confederate obstetrician, for example. One of the major differences between the United States constitution the confederacy got the attrition there is a six year term for president. I dont think they went to war over that. A major difference is the issue of the approach to the National Commitment of slavery. There were a number of characteristics that field this. When someone does not have the personal connection to the war stands back and says look, and they see the confederacy, they do not see as as young men wanting to defend their homes, they see a government committed to the sus is sustenance of White Supremacy and slavery in america. All people see it that way, but some do. Getting back to this question of policy. Union soldiers who marched into town in april of 1865, racist Union Soldiers, who may have hated black people, some of them. They marched for freedom. Not because they were motivated by that, but because the government that they were fighting for have establish that establish that is what is the as one of the purposes of war. Our job, in part, is help people on table these very tangled up things. One of the things intel, and im not the first to say this, in remembering or creating a memory of your life, or of our National Life is forgetting. While remembering certain things can be painful, and some of it can be hurtful, forgetting can be just as hurtful as well for those who are forgotten. What you see over the last 50 years is an effort by this nation, challenged by people within it, to not forget so much. And to understand how so Many Americans might see the war differently than uri you or i. That puts the park service and it difficult place. We are the keepers, in many ways, of the nations memory especially as it relates to the civil war. We facilitate this dialogue reconciliation virtue, people come to our parks not to be provoked and angered but to be inspired. And to learn. And understand why they ought to be grateful to be americans, and be grateful for the americans that have preceded them. I think we do a pretty good job of that. But, heres the punch. Are we memorialized memorial ists or historians stucco are they mutually exclusive . Can we do both . It is a difficult perch to be on. Some people would argue that our role as memorialiasts somehow disqualifies. Some people have been uncomfortable in the role that we play and in facilitating connections. They have recommended, as i think we have increasingly recognized that part of the work that we do and tells a good deal of forgetting. And so, they look at us and say what are you doing . You dont need to coddle people just there on out there and do it. The fact is when you work for National Park, or any historical site it think about the historical sites we manage. Lbj, do you think when lady bird was alive they said, i wonder what mrs. Johnson will think about this . Or jimmy carter. All of these places have come to us. 9 11. There was an understanding that we would honor and respect their story. And to tell it as that deed of manassas says, without venture and with due respect. So that they will put us in a different place than the historians in academia. Absolutely. Are we memorialists . Absolutely. But can we do our job better as being historians . Absolutely. Here are a couple of questions that im am not going to offer answers forward. I dont know the answers to these. Can america distinguish between confederates and the confederacy . Can we honor confederates and talk honestly about the confederacy at the same time . Will the lens of personal connection yield or permit that to happen . I dont know. Think about that. Here is another question. And i dont know the answer to this either. There are Many Americans who lament the demise of the confederacy. Which of course apply to things. Both, perpetuation of slavery, at least for a time, and destruction of the union here can you lament the demise of the confederacy and still love american . I dont know the answer to that question. So, the American Civil War is many things. It is undoubtedly americas most costly human tragedy. It is likely the most bloody mf patient in the world. It is a milestone moment along americas path to freedom justice, equality. It is the foundation on which our nation emerged on the world stage as a world power. It is the greatest demonstration of both failure and durability of democracy. It is perhaps the most vivid reflection of our for jews successes and failures, all wrapped up into one. These are all things have shaped the lives of every american, and millions and millions of people beyond our nations boundaries. In our relentless quest for simplicity, and are selective memory that often insist only on history that flatters or inspires us, Many Americans, and maybe america at large failed to see the immense legacy of the civil war in our lives and culture. The problem with public history as it relates to the civil war is not, as some seem to feel that too many people are interested in the civil war. The problem is that not enough are interested in the civil war. Every american should be able to find the gateway into the story for engaging the civil war as part of not only the national experience, but the framework of their own lives. Yet, for a hundred reasons, many not within our control, they do not. As i conclude here, lets think about that list of names. The civil war. The war of rebellion. The war for the union. The war for the southern independence. The second war for independence. Each of these names speaks to a certain perspective on the war. It is easy to see why southerners would see the war as a war of northern aggression. I get that. We all get that. Or the war for southern independence. Lord is easy to see too why former slaves would see as the war for emancipation. Or northerners as the war for rebellion. I think you can see that. Some might see this as a bothersome debate. Maybe it is a symptom of why so Many Americans are put off by the war. Why do argue about stuff like that. But lets look at that, those names, in a different way. Each of those names represents a perfectly valid perspective on the war. And each is a potential gateway for americans to engage in the story. This world changing story. The problem is, and for reasons that seem mysterious to many people who are not inclined towards history, the problem is we continually fill barriers and away large and subtle. We view the labels, these names as not able to stand side by side, but reaches the exclusive. If the war is a war on northern aggression, a can also be a war for emancipation. But in fact, it was. It was all of those things. Thats ok. Like our fellow americans, our history always challenges us to be better. We draw strength and an aspiration from those who risked and gave all for our communities protection. Our nations protection. We only pray, as we look back, that we are worthy of their sacrifices. We also model and emulate the wisdom of those who struggle to improve the nation. Not just those who protected it. Those who improved as well, and both large and in both large and small ways. We learn from their mistakes in ways that they could never could. This tumultuous tide of history that brings us here to this very spot today, and to this conversation at this moment, this tide of history with all of its greatness and its shortcomings, all mixed up and intermingled, has carried us forward. Our challenge, as we leave here today, and my final question to you is will we use the inspiration and lessons that the tide theres to continue the work of shaping the work of continuing to shape our great nation . Thank you very much. [applause] thank you for the thoughtprovoking talk. You put out a lot of questions for the folks here. They may have a couple of questions for you. If you do, if you would come to the microphone in the aisle, state your name and question. We have about five minutes for questions and then we will wrap it up. William traveled from maryland. That was a very inspiring talk. You kind of went there. Went around the bush, around the barn, chasing it. You did not answer the one question, are we still fighting the civil war . Pick up the newspaper today. I guarantee you in the newspaper today, there is an article that raises questions about the appropriate role of the federal government in our lives. If you pick up the newspaper on march 15, 1791, i guarantee you will find an article somewhere in there about what is the appropriate role of the federal government in our lives. This is an issue that has been constant and we continue to try and resolve. But, only once, in the course of those 200 plus years of conversation did that american discussion collapse into war. I think that as we look at the flow of our lives, how we resolve issues as a nation, it is important, really important to understand how we have failed to do that in the past and what the consequences are, which is in my mind another reason to not only be interested in the war itself, but try to find a way to engage your friends and neighbors, and people you dont even know in this discussion. I will say that the civil war was not over in my life. About 20 years ago, we start going to nascar races. We went to richmond, virginia, and the nascar flag ha we decided we would fly a flag with the Confederate Flag on it and we were told that we cannot do that. They said it would be torn down and burn. Im not sure if that is true but there were certainly people who would disagree with it. Generally speaking, there are people who would armada comfortable by the flying of the come federate flag. They generally arent tearing them down, but they generally are expressing themselves. Once again, this is a call for just a step back to see that flag was absolutely means one thing to you, as a symbol that your ancestors walked under, gave their lives. It means that. But, we also have to recognize it means Something Else to someone else who saw it flown, or displayed in a very different context. When we run into trouble i am all in favor of arguing about these things. When we brought into trouble is when we insist that everyone sees the same way. Its not going to happen. Its just not going to happen. I think when we understand why lincoln got a emancipation through, but he didnt take the next up, s civil rights. Of course, there was selma. There is ferguson today. These will be the last two questions. The two gentlemen who are up. You mention that some of the Common Knowledge that we have refined over the years, you alluded to the myth of the block of southern white soldiers and civilians. You see as we start looking at reconstruction, an opportunity to do something similar in regards to the study of that. Period. Looking at, not just the memorial aspects of it, but the intellectual aspects of it cant but follow it through to be construction. Reconstruction. The park service has a program which is intended to do this very task of moving us forward. Which is what we hope to do. Reconstruction if you think the civil war is a contentious issue, wait until we Start Talking about reconstruction seriously. There are very few issues that have more widely divergent issues that reconstruction. By the way, that was craig who runs one of the best civil war blogs in the country. If you want to follow his intellectual footsteps through his discovery of the war, it is a great place to go. I never thought i would live to see the day when thousands of americans a new york city were marching the summer chanting, what do we want . Dead cops. When do we want them . Now. We are a very divided country today with racial relations. President obama has weighed in on ferguson. He has weighed in on selma. On Trevor Martin in florida. I wonder how the park Service Fields about his loss feels about his lost opportunity in uniting us by going to big spurt or gettysburg, or going to appomattox next week and celebrating the 260,000 let me change that, 360,000 dead Union Soldiers who died for the national stated policy of freeing the slaves that they never met. Two things. First off National Park service doesnt really have a mind of its own. It is a collection of people with their own minds. Secondly, the president of the United States is my boss. I would be hesitant no matter what my opinion was, to enter into that discussion with you in this setting. I would be happy, when im off my uniform, offer up my opinion. I hope you will excuse me for that. My name is aj douglas. From virginia. I hope you dont mind me doing this. Kind of long, but i would like to say that i dont think the civil war was entirely about slavery. Why . Because throughout history people dont really care about black people that much. I dont need to say that way but for example, the massacre in paris. That same day, 5000 africans were killed by the same organization that we are fighting today. It was on the news. The point i making, the question i am asking is if the veterans won the war economically, how would things change in the country . Either way, the union one, the confederacy one, there are still if slavery were the object, to get rid of it, did we really do that . It still resonates. Theres a number of issues that you raise. I cant tell you what wouldve happened if the war, if the confederacy had won the war. There have been books written about that. There is a lot of speculation. I really dont have anything to add to the conversation. Your question is a perfect example of how this tide of history still and go fast and engulfs us. We hear about the National Banking system, the tariff economic policies, they have also been part of the discussion from the beginning. There was one issue that turn this discourse about the proper role of the federal government in our lives. That issue was, i think, unarguably slavery. Now, you equate the issue of race an americas comfort with race with its view on slavery. There are obviously they are obviously closely related, but the great impact in the civil war was not a giant stride forward in race relations, but a giant stride as it related to government policy. The hearts and minds of people moved slower, often times than constitutional amendments reconstruction acts, all of these things. There are two issues at work here. People often point to the emancipation proclamation, or the 13th amendment or 40 the memo, or 15 amendment, and say, look, it is still a problem. But, the great watershed of the American Civil War was the point of the nation in terms of its policies going in a new direction that it had never gone before. All else followed slowly, loudly boisterously, sometimes unproductively, but it follows nonetheless. It still follows today. Thank you. [applause]