comparemela.com

Today. Were going to get into red scare last listen. Obviously, we talked little bit about the role of comics in kind of building a national and and what that means. Well talk about that in a moment. Today, were going to talk a little bit about red scare and how the comics were contributing to that red scare and also reflecting it. What i want to do today, as you see here, is kind of well start this kind of red menace and what it means, how it is supposedly a threat to definitions of American Freedom and liberty. Were going to have a on think piece. You did today by kind of examining is this tomorrow and getting a sense of whether this threat is internal or external, what was the most dangerous threat . And then were to take a little bit of a dive into some of the espionage comics and see how the cold war is unfolding in the realm of of james bond and the spies. Next lesson, were going to move over to taking look at how children are expected to participate in the cold war. So well have a from kelleys davis. Then youre going to actually look at these moments Trading Cards that came out in 1951, which are just phenomenal. Theyre basically baseball Trading Cards were all about the red scare and targeted to kids. All right. So thats where were heading today. Quick review from lesson. We talked about comic as an influence buster and a reflection of national and how these comics, not just cold war comics, but i think comics more generally are reflective of cultural trends and and receptive to cultural trends. So we see theres kind of a a symbiotic relationship. Culture and comics reflecting culture, but theyre also contributing to what that culture means. And we saw last lesson that obviously when we get into the cold war, theyre pretty serious concerns over National Identity. What does it mean to be an american in the postWorld War Two era . What does it mean be an american as youre now fighting yet another global threat no longer now from nazis, although well see nazis continue to pop up. The red skull is just one example throughout the cold war era. But this threat from seemingly a new totalitarian one with global communism and so we asked as we kind of remember, we looked at the the first introduction or the introduction of the incredible hulk in that first cover with stan lee, and whether these Marvel Comics were reflective of of american confidence coming out of World War Two or American Fears and we had this conversation. We seem to to come to some consensus that it was both right that that Marvel Comics is just one example or reflecting a confidence in and fear of the cold war and americas relationship with the cold war. We talked about some of the the tensions between identity and how its constructed, a Larger National identity and is it a consensus based identity, almost a coercive, forced identity of what you are supposed to be as an american, what you were supposed to do as an american . And then these fracture lines between kind of larger consensus, national in the cold war and identity race are all impacted by these fracture lines of what it means to be an American Fighting the cold war, what it might mean to be an africanamerican and participating in civil rights movement. And as we saw, i remember that one panel we saw where the naacp is helping out an africanamerican family in need. And the comic suggested that because the cp was doing that and because they were ostensibly influenced by communism, that the cp was suspect. And so clearly theres some issues here and tensions between how were thinking about identity. We talked a little bit about this important idea of consensus and what it means during this era. Right. That for me to be an american, i just did this and just tap that for for me to be an american, i have to prove that im not a communist. And so part of identity is also not explaining what i am, but explaining what i not what im not in the comics will help us do that. But the myth of consensus is based another kind of deeper myth that talked about that americans have this Progressive Mission to to civilize that these ideas of of manifest destiny if you will have been with us for four decades and decades are still being reflected in the cold war through comics and does not surprise. Finally, National Identity becomes and the comics help readers as going to see today especially politicize those ideas of what it means to be an american. And then finally, we kind of delved a little bit into the marvel superhero shows with the introduction of characters like the fantastic four and the incredible hulk and peter parker and. Yes, with great power comes. Yeah, sorry. Right. Got it. Got at least once. Right. So if youre talking about war at least once you got to mention clausewitz. If youre talking to comics at least once, you have to mention with great power, its in the contract. And so how these these comic book purism selves are embodying this nationalist. These nationalist aspiration passions and also this triumphalist culture that the fantastic four or aspirational in what they represent. But theres also, as we saw, some concerns here right that that ben grimm as an example is kind of a reluctant hero. Clearly, the incredible hulk is reluctant hero. And yet the culture thats coming out of these cold war comics is triumphalist. They express a moral certainty. Now, were going to see as we get a little further into the into the course that. Crime and horror comics are definitely not doing that. And thats why theyre going to be a target, because theyre offering suggesting a narrative that is not triumphalist and that there may be some decay within this american narrative, within American Culture. And thats why folks like Frederick Wertham are going to attack them, besides the point that theyre supposedly contributing to delinquency. But whats important for us especially with the Marvel Comics and well hit them again as we hit a little bit later on down in the course that theyre actually fighting the cold. And remember we saw that one panel where sue storm, the audience, tory of fantastic four, shes basically ben grimm, a coward and then saying, look, if we dont go to space, communists are going to get there before we do. And so we have to. And then he gets all mad and throws down and says, im going to fly wherever. But there representing values and virtues, and we have this conversation of who is more representing these values, especially in the early cold war. Is it tony stark is iron man or steve rogers, captain america, we have capitalism on one side. The strong independent industrialists and. On the other side, we have this clearly virtuous ideological character with steve rogers. And then the last thing is our review for today. We saw last lesson and had a conversation about core values and who decides those core values, who decides who determines what it means to be an american . And how do the comics contribute to this question . And for the superheroes who were supposed to be demonstrating, exhibiting these aspirations and values, theyre doing so in a way that also transcends the law. And so we had this conversation of how do you represent a societys values . Youre transcending its laws. These are vigilantes, arent they . This is what the civil war comic and then the more recent mcu movie is all about. Right. Who represents society . If youre not operating within its laws and with all of this obviously is a conversation leads us to today about where from where the major threats come and how we define and how much of National Identity is determined by the threats to that society, which leads us to the red scare. Okay. All right. Any questions at all from review from the last class . So were very good. We understand what we did in terms of kind of setting this foundation, having a conversation about National Identity, how comics are contributing to reflecting to that conversation about National Identity . And ultimately this conversation we had last lesson about how threats are part of that conversation. All right. Very good. All right. Were off to the races and very good here. All right. My favorite line from last nights reading right . Peter lee says after 1945, these commies, evil, godless commies are looming large because the nation was swept, drenched in fear. What a great line. Now seems to be that theres proof of this. Right. And lee suggests, if we look at some of the evidence that this is true, 1946, the clifford report, Clark Clifford is an advisor to the truman administration, coauthors a report called americas americas relations with the soviet union. And he declares the ultimate aim of soviet is world dominance. Its a 1946, only one year after we singlehandedly won World War Two. Two years after that 1948 congressional testimony talking about soviet espionage inside the United States, a systematic and substantial on the integrity of our government. Four years later, look at this poster. Had a hopper says itll scare the pants off you theres theres women falling out of the skies thats how bad it is new york city is going to topple San Francisco isn flames is boulder dam is destroyed nowhere is it safe in the United States puget sound attacked with a nucleastrike mask casualties. This is frightening. And it seems to be that, yes, the cities are under and apparently people falling out of buildings. But so to our fundamental and this is the first question i want to kind of work on today is lee suggests, that fundamental values were at stake. And when you read a comic like this from 1948, the plot to steal the world, weve seen this before, right . Remember, little stolen octopus. In that case, it was read. But here you can see lenin its 1917. Hes talking about the revolution in russia, destying all the liberties ofhe people. But thats not enough. Now we have to kind of create this communist world. And hes now lkily, i guess the comic book writer and artists were there to to hear the plot to destroy world is going to steal not just the russian state anits people, but world. All right. So how accurate was this we discussed the components a couple of lessons now about and what it meant and what it aspired to be. And we talked after World War Two, the capacity of stalins soviet to actually project power, which may have been fairly given 22 plus million people, russians dead during and in the immediate aftermath of World War Two. So were americas fundamental values really at stake here, given what weve read in mcmann is an overview, given what youve seen here. So far, what you read in in is this do you get a sense that americas fundamental values, who we are, are structures or government were really fundamentally at stake . Yeah, i think yeah, i would agree that their fundamentals were at stake like its evidence like you see stuff like rock and roll popping into the picture and theres this whole different like dynamic going in the world. But i just think thats a progression. But think thats also a good way for like a half of america to try and slow that progression down by finding some sort of like boogeyman to blame. And in this case, it was communism. Okay, so this this is an opportunity and narratives. This is an opportunity for more conservative citizens to say, look, we need to slow all this down. Elvis is taking this in a direction that we dont want to go and and the Companies Want that, right . Yeah. Denise, i was going to say that one of the values would be to vote and like on the think piece, the american they were saying to that the communists would remove the vote, but they really value it. So they said to use the right to vote yes. So theres this is yet another example, right, of something something that is clearly at stake, at least according the comics. Right. That if if a communist take over american government, theyre going to take away your right to vote. So exercise, is that right . And also right . Whats the best way for you to demonstrate that youre not a communist . Go out and vote. Yeah, i think that the threat was real. Yeah, but i think that. This is not like the soviet union was like one single homogenous state, or it was even like like maos china even, you know, especially as the time went on in the seventies, there more radical people within the apparatus of the soviet union who did what we need that need to get the World Revolution right. We cant we cant let we if we if stay within the borders, it will die sterilize. It has to get out there. And we had this conversation right, about the competition between the soviet union, china, over who is going to be the leader of global this global revolution. And should it be anticommunist or antiimperialist. Yeah, yeah. Anybody else, luke and then dianne yeah. I think theres an element into which it might be justified, but i think also in large parts are pretty convenient scapegoat. Like if you look at is this tomorrow a lot of the criticisms were of mostly american institutions unions. Unions were basically up in the comic as like basically communist communist, ready to get ready to act basically on the orders of moscow and without without really any reasons of their own for doing so. Theres a point where people are like, what are they striking over . And theyre like, oh, we dont know, right . Its in the comic. Its just because theyve been ordered to by the communist party. But yeah. And thats what i wonder about. Right, that it i think we can come to some consensus that maybe a cultural value that we all share as americans if we even believe that that is a you know, a viable argument is that i think you can say theres a fairly independent strain in in at least how we talk about what it means to be an american. And yet these union folks, at least in the comics, they all kind of shrug their shoulders and like, yeah, we were told to do this by the communists. Were just going to follow along and that. And thats why i think thats what puts this into question right are americans that easily duped to believe that communism is the absolute right way to go after 100 plus or 50 years of just democrat institutions . And was it going to turn that quickly, especially after World War Two, right . Yeah. Yeah, i think there are looking for someone to direct or to make an other of almost like the germans did just. The World War Two. Right. Theyre looking for a way to unify the people and the american so that theyll give them their support when they go to all these wars and into vietnam and to korea and. Yeah, yeah. Is this also a way then for the government to get support for whatever program you want to to promote, especially National Security . Right. If there is a clear and present danger here not to to steal from tom clavin, nc, but if there is a clear and present danger here, i have to get you all to accept it because then its easy then for you to support truman, to support increases in Defense Budget to to support intervention ism overseas. Right. Grace exactly what i was going to say. So i think its its my right i think that im not sure if the threat was real, but i think to a certain degree, they thought it was right enough for. Those like key intrinsic American Values, like religion and even in is this tomorrow like guns were discussed. Right, right. Like education all those things being at risk for communism. Yeah. This a really important point, right . Is it just as important to believe there is a threat as it as there is an actual threat there . And what i find fascinating with this is were trying to separate here or Young Readers are trying to separate fact from fiction. And how do you do that . This is pretty clear, right . That obviously to read communist the embodiment of the devil. And now youre expecting a young reader to to separate fact from fiction. And its really difficult to do if you think about a nuclear soviet union and the quote unquote loss of china, hungary, berlin in korea how do you do that . Right. And so i think grace is right if you if you believe in the perception a threat, is that just as important . The threat itself, i think so and yeah catching i was sick seem to me that some things that were in the comic also seem to be things that were doing and kind of projecting like on one page. They talked about how of the commies take over. Were going to were going to burn more food so that like only commies get food when we know today a lot of farmers do that they keep the prices of like crops up. Right, right, right. So its like its projecting a bit. Yeah, i think so and. We talked right and well see especially with the, the espionage. Right. That both savaging, we kind of make this argument that these operators, emissaries of the United States across the globe are simply promoting the truman doctrine. But as we suggested last lesson, if you flip that on its head, isnt that what khrushchev is arguing by supporting wars of National Liberation . I think so. So i think there is something to this argument that theres a bit projection and mirror imaging going on here in terms of the threat, which isnt surprising if you think about as we started, mcmahon, this idea that it is a global competition for leadership of the world and what ideology is going to best serve that. Yeah, thats a really interesting and i think thats pretty clear throughout the entire comic with like just america and hypocritical ism where theyre talking about like oh coming us are going to bring concentration camps. But its like we already had internal camps a year prior. So like a little confused about that. Yeah, the theocracy is definitely there. Yeah. And then they also talk about how theyre going to, you know, bring on like anti semitic sentiments. And its like, well, were since the start of america and always been persecuted here you know its not like the communists are the specific reason why this happening its like its just been here. Yeah and again i think its is is an opportunity to use this threat this face of evil as a way to promote your policy. Right. Carlos sacha well, coming from the fact that we just got out of World War Two, we just lost a our nearpeer adversary, which was japan and the axis powers at the time that, communism was like the biggest, like what would you consider a nearpeer adversary that point to a challenger institution like they charge our institutional values right. Right. So that like even in the comic it sure like a slippery slope like argument to kind of push those things are like if we protests start happening and we let these things start happening that then eventually were going to buckle under that pressure even if that that threat its not necessarily there. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, i think so. Absolutely. Sacha, on the topic of democracy found in like is this tomorrow the the commandments at the end that they put forth and the things they said were very like they were like you need to be critical you need to read things, you need to think, you need to be tolerant. But the whole comic is them just demonizing and generalizing communism as this evil evil thing but they tell people to be critical and think for themselves. Right. Yet theyre kind of implanting this idea into some individuals. And i want you to embrace your individualism and i want you to be able to to choose your religion, choose your your political identity, but just do in a way that make sure youre choosing the right thing, right . Yeah. Denise and then it was interesting how on the commandments, like you said, that one of them was to be tolerant of other races, religions and nationalities, right . And to your right to vote. But they had been intolerant of africanamericans and they had removed their right to vote and stuff like that, even though it had ended by then. Like the grandfather clause and things like, yeah, theres still theres were still of working through some jim crow laws. Obviously, and they still, you know, the groups of people were still marginalized and couldnt exercise their right to vote when they were in the u. S. So that kind of reflected, you know, the lynching and everything and the starvation they were all putting African Americans through that. But now that it happened to white people, it was certainly dangerous and cruel yeah, so again, i think this is important for us, right . Were seen the construction of a threat that rests on some pretty basic hypocrisies. Right. And again, if youre thinking about as we we did early on, whos the main audience for this, youre asking young kids a lot here to kind work through whats real, whats fact, whats fiction, christian then garrett i think that i think that the for hypocrisy are a little bit overblown considering you know, like when the soviets did a camp, they killed thousand people in it or gunpoint, you know, like it was i remember theres a movie the early nineties. There was it was a submarine movie. And theres a part where theyre on the boat. It has harrison ford, i think another actor. And they watch propaganda films about, you know, blacks in america and a the and and, you know, look at this they take about all the hypocrisy. Its a very standard line from the soviet you know, in terms of game plan to yeah. Call the other person hypocrite absolutely intend to distort the truth set the facts extensively because the soviets did use ethnic and racial the communists did do that that was a huge part of doing that in any divide and conquer is a standard deal, make them all. And so again i think what youre saying here, i forget who said it, but youre seeing a mirror imaging here on both both sides using this almost, almost the exact same tactics right divide. Exterminate religion or, you know, whatever that. However you just decide to define that race america and compare it at all. The soviet you know what i think a matter of scale, right . That if youre interning japaneseamerican solely based on and solely based on fear. Absolutely awful of it. Yeah. Is it a level of scale difference i think you might be able to make an argument that but i think whats key here is what the comics are suggesting is our values our ideals are supreme and yet were also engaging in behavior that is kind of suspect and not living up to those ideals that youre seeing in comics like this. Right . Garrett i like the topic like divide and in the first couple of pages is this tomorrow is saying that with all the comments were like in new york saying that like theyve done very good job of making like different classes and religion like hate each other. Right right. Right. It seems like the communists, if it wasnt for communism, then we wouldnt have classes hating each other. Everything would be peaceful. But its like even though they may or may not have been that were doing that like all this turmoil is still going on in america. Theyre trying to push all americas problems on it. So theres coerce again, coercive consensus building here, right . If you speak out against class inequality, well, youre clearly being con, youre exhibiting communist behavior, right. If youre speaking out about issues, civil rights, clearly youve been infiltrated the by the communist, right. And so there is this kind of coercive to the story line here, which i think is important as were working through. How do we define identity and how do we build consensus so we are unified against this global threat. And because there is a global threat, we need involve heroes and so thats why this this medium for. Us works really well by. Us i mean, you know, young, Young Readers in the 1950s that if you are having a bit of a trouble as a young reader, separating fact from fiction, what is absolutely enticing is that this is a global struggle against a godless, evil the threat. And we need heroes to help us out. Yeah, moral is an. And that final piece before the minute, its enabling the reader to like that hero by, like, step up, take place, like, defend your country, and, like, then we can prevent slippery slope, but you never, like, fall into the fear of communism or still fear. But, like, if you never give in to it, then, like, we wont go down that path. You can be the mighty thors sidekick in this fight against global communism. Yeah. It asks you to participate. And thats one of the things. Thats what were really going to dive into. Next lesson is the implications of asking kids, young kids, to participate in war. I mean, this is another question i think we need to ask ourselves. Is the United States at war right now . By now, i mean, you know, lets say in 1948, 49. Yes. By the time get to 1950, were were were in korea. But is the United States at war and if were kind of asking kids to be a part of this, like julia said, to participate in this conflict, which has global ramifications, yes, its appealing from a marketing standpoint. And publishers obviously to sell comic books, but it also. I get to have a keep this is awesome, right, sean . But i think yes we are indeed at war, but its more like a cultural war in that sense. I mean, the comic books literally paint like communism as the antithesis to the western values in western society, especially in that religious aspect. I mean, theres a line where like i think one of the subversive literally says, here goes the greatest, like what trash ever written in the bible. And then right, right, right, right, right into a big ball of fire like they its so to the point and blunt, its almost comical. But at the time it really brings home the that were fighting, literally the antithesis and notice the language here and again you know we remember when we talked about we we read urls piece on the importance of you as a reader participating in comics are filling in those gaps and when you move from panel to panel the artist and the writer are asking you to participate when you turn the page. When we looked at christines. Master race, right when we were on this tier of the panels and were in the present, and then now all of a sudden hes asking to participate as we go down to the bottom tier. And now youre in the past hes doing in this case here, right. Stan lee and jack kirby are doing the same thing. Theyre now taking you into, in this case, the peking, beijing headquarters. And you get to spy in on this communists who were saying that communism is the mightiest force in the world. And as long as defeat destroy, they hero, protector, thor, we have an opportunity to shake americans morale or the western powers morale. And so even with that kind of language, this imagery, i mean, clearly youre seeing just look at the face structure here, right . These are savage animals, enemies that were dealing with. It does dr you in to participate in this struggle. War shadow on shawns point of view, it seems like the questions society are even say they painted as the antithesis to too good like its just its plain evil. Like its not even its not even that its compared to western society. Its just compared to heroes it doesnt get any more. I mean, theres not a lot of room for interpretation here, is there. This is communism. Is it a little good according to that no. Absolutely not. Right. So i think it is important for us to kind of think about as were entertaining these questions about american identity during the cold era, asking young kids to participate in this this is pretty threatening if possible, that the mighty thought can be taken by communists. And maybe he needs all the help he can get, which is why then. Jane foster no kidding. All right. Theres another question i think we also need to ask here, and we saw this in the reading, an intimation, a suggestion of this. Right that there may, in fact, political benefits to being at war. Now, this is a much earlier comic right, september 1940. So we still have not entered the United States is still not entered World War Two. Wh do you see here that might suggest there are political benefits to war. I mean, if theres an action adventure, so in the philippines means youve got a pretty good eye on potential allies like china and you get all the benefits of like materials. So then your party gets more favor, more favorable stuff because were the one that did it and philippines is yes. Kind of part of the american empire here. And so theres theres that component of it. So this is suggesting by being at war, you can also gain a little land places, perhaps. Right. And economic value used to be theres an economic value to being at war. Youve got all these contracts, but the military youve got you end up with land which gives you more free markets and it just goes on and we talked about the the very present concerns in the immediate postWorld War Two era that it was World War Two that took us out of the depression rather than fdr, his policies. Right. And so a very among political circles a very prevalent concern that once we got into postWorld War Two peacetime era, we were to immediately drop back into an economic crisis, back into the depression. Gilead, you have something and then dave yeah. So at the beginning of, the reading i think the like straight up say like the time to like make changes is like when youre in crisis because the people are looking for stability, they might open to looking for something new. And so thats a definite political advantage. Its like the people that youre trying to persuade in crisis. Right, right, right. An advantage of that. Yeah, absolutely. Do you do you get to demonstrate your powerful benevolence, make up your solution and . You get. Absolutely. And you get to make up your own solution good day. So to answer the question, what would benefit the united being involved in working at that at that point in 1940. You know francis occupied and the United States would be seen as like the heroes came in and like hope liberate western europe. Is there a potential for a hero narrative here . Look at his thighs. This guy is this guy whos doing squats right. But theres al something really scary here, too, right . Kids a baby. D hes not a gatling gun for sakes, shawn. I do think its very important to notice, like, how this difficult in regards to war. I mean, like historically how uncle sam is depicted as the nature of the nation at that point in time. And if hes in war right now, like you said, hes looking pretty strong. Hes happy, hes literally beating people up and hes like larger than life. Right. So thats say that america in a war is strong, united, healthy and just in its element. Yeah, absolutely. So do your squats if you want to defeat communism. But theres a problem here, right, that in this case the enemy is visible. When we get to the cold war, were not so certain or we. And so i think a key we have to ask ourselves is, as you were going through the reading and then especially when you got into is tomorrow. Was the communist threat more internal or external . So what we see here first, so this is obviously a caricature. 1961 of nikita khrushchev, what is this godless cmunism here in terms of what were seeing in the comic, what are some of the things you want to pull out of this. Luke and then matt i think its highlighting kind of like a t faced nature of communism, where in all of these cases, khrushchev is either eended money or the olive branch on one side, but heholding a missile in a wick his oer. And so i think its trying to express that regardless of what the face of communism is that its presenting, theyre making an argument that its true nature is destructive a subversive and dangerous and deceitful and just. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Right. Matt yeah, i agree wh luke, but i liked what it said at the bottom where its ke in its way communism has left a trail of murders, lies and misery again, never seen before. And its just like it also says and i saw this is a common trend amongst like theres another source earlier was published by the same Catholic Group that published the catechetical guilder. Yeah they i cant i cant say it catechism and then it is so weird to say five times. Yeah. But that group and like a bunch of other Catholic Groups that seem to be like constantly pushing this on children and like really they trying to get their heads into this thought process of like screw communism. If you are an atheist, does that mean that you might also be a communist . Thats what thats what these are. These comics are suggesting. Right. So the way to burnish your credentials as an american is to to be religious, to embrace religion, because thats a great way for you to demonstrate tangibly that youre not a communist. Communist. Dont go to church. Wheres the line . Where is where is where is the actual disinformation or khrushchev did do all these things. I mean, the communist like like even with the material that we read last night, i mean, the process by which cant countries with a similar process where is the line so far any the propaganda ive heard now i understand it some of is hyperbolic or whatever is hyperbole. There is propaganda, there is a confrontation or war going on like a cosmic one really. Between two polar opposites. Yeah, yeah. Its a good way to put it, right. A cosmic. Yeah. You know, its more than just the material but but thats what happened in the soviet union. Thats what happened in communist china. Thats what happened in the uganda with robert mugabe. It was a prosperous, wealthy country. And then he assumed power and. It became genocidal and and the country fell apart. I mean, the same thing. He pitied the ethnic groups against each other, be it the black tribes or the or the whites, the blacks and everything else, and or any number of places. I mean, the americas wasnt that great either. We had the banana republics, right . Oui, oui, oui, oui, oui, cood people as well. But this this is a part of like during our the era of our class in 1961 or two. So lets say you wrote his book, rules for radicals. This is this external threat is real. Okay, carlos and then, shane, i think thats where the huge issue comes with the internal threat, like building an internal threat is because there was a basis for having this fear of communism that they could see like there was like solid there was anecdotal evidence, you know, that it was it could be that bad. And because that they saw a small issue that could that could potentially a bigger issue and they decided to try to stop it at the lowest level possible. Good, good shane and then taylor and then i want to come back to what christian said two things. One, i did notice when hes looking towards the east, trying to get peace in his own region and then towards the west, hes trying to blow up and stuff so nice. I also found my i showed a lot of this to my russian. They just laug its so muchf this. Its so like out of proportion, blown up. So i mean, ty have the same things. I mean, they killed their mom and theyre like, well, why did you leave behind a trail of misery when you were raising really good . Its like they had same things we did. Thats so cool. Right, right, right, right. Yeah. So theres really interesting point of view. Yeah, it is interesting. Tell her to kind of christian carloss points right. I think it started definitely as a very valid like external threat. Uh huh. But especially we look at is is this tomorrow i think we really kind of used some fears that americans had in in order to kind of like create an internal threat or make it at least like add to the perception that there was an internal threat to democracy in the United States. And i think this is especially in is this tomorrow through the use of like depression era imagery, dust devil image. Right, right, right, right. And then also you have like comparisons to World War Two nazi ism like even on page three, i think it was theres like the arm band of the communists with like the sickle and hammer right . Right. Fashion, just like the nazis wore. So i think they purposefully crafted some of that messaging to the audience for something and i think look fear of like actual historical events. Yeah, yeah yeah. And that to me is key question right is. Where is the lie is a great question but for what purpose this being sold right is it for is it for true National Security purposes or this is an external threat . Is it now a way for, whoevers selling this message to say, well, we need to look at the internal threat because the external threat is now seeping internally and thats where i wonder how we determine the level of threat. Is it is is this imagery a lie ors it prlem of degree . Right because what what ends up ppening then is this same comic from this communism or this communism . Take a look at here. re now taking you through an education of description of the communist cells and ts se, we we can see the evils of librarians. Because ss at a public library. Hes at a a university teacher. Thank you. Im a communist the labor union who talked labor unions earlier. Heres a labor Union Librarian whos now in it. And then i have received orders o to california. And clearly i obey because im a communist. So i think the problem here. Right, is when were were taking threat and just putting in this space of just hyper fear and and over estimating the threat, what does it do to American Culture . Because then there is a coercive consensus built building and it narrows whats acceptable within American Culture, because the external threat seems to be causing an internal threat. Luke yeah, i was just going to say like it warned in the, uh, we read that its like all it takes, like a small group of probably just to take a cell. Yeah. And like the fact that there a party and a lot of these countries like contributes to the fear. Yeah, absolutely. Luke and then. Diane yeah, i think, the issue thats present this isnt so much that its, it isnt so much the foreign threat like of if the sentiment towards what the russian communists are doing the Chinese Communist are doing is valid or not. Its of irrelevant because that isnt really any of this is talking about its talking kind of this imagined domestic threat thats kind of large. It takes its orders from perhaps, but i think its largely independent from anything that theyre doing over there. Its instead its if you look at this, theres not really actually that much specifically about communism. Its more like if its this this guy in the third panel here whos saying, oh, you have to leave your wife and family to work for us, its the destruction in values. Yeah, its like this is show. Oh, the destruction of family values in is this tomorrow its if the catholic churches are last hold out against communism you need to turn to religion and so i think and you are on the front lines of this war you and your family are active participants in this war. And again i think what that does is it narrows whats acceptable in terms of participate eri democracy, diana and nicole. This is also at the same that they were doing the senate or the house unamerican who act right on unamerican committee. Yeah right with mccarthy yeah yeah i this is a little later this is 1961. Those hearings are in the early fifties, but youre still seeing a little bit of leftover of you. Red scare mccarthyism. Yeah, i just think its funny. It has nothing really to do with this conversation, but i think its very funny that these where they show like the communists of america, as you were saying, itlike its just a ll of people, right . Its just a small group people. But then when you read the comicshat are like america defeating communism, its like, oh it only takes two people to defeat. Right . Right. Right. So its just very but theres a lot of ill get to in second. Theres a lot of insecurity here, too, in this from 1951, w stalin hopes will destroy ourself is the argument in this coc is an economic one that if we dont control our own inflation, were going to economically bankrupt, ourselves. And thats going to contribute to us not being able to fight this crusade. So theres a machine here of threats, right . That the external one and in the case of the comics, there is a belief that every its all inspired by by lenin and and his followers. Actually lenin is probably still alive in most of these comics. But lenin and stalin, all that are are puppet masters for the world. And because some are not Strong Enough to stand up against this threat, theyre willing to potentially undermine our economy. Theyre willing to join trade unions and infiltrate and, you know, turn folks away from capitalism towards socialism within trade unions. Theyre willing to turn libraries and places of into propaganda sites. And theres a lot of insecurity here. And again, i want to keep coming back to this external threat and whats real and perceived and just the capacity, the capability of the soviet union to actually. Project power enough to dominate the globe. Yeah, i really think by the end of the sixties, i feel like the soviet union as a detente, cooled so much until this seventies. I feel like the threat more of an internal threat because marxism is an ideology with a very compact. Its got an end times thing like, any religion or something. Its got its got people, not scholars, knowledgeable of that. It does want get rid of family. It does want to get rid of church. It does want to mix it with communist manifesto destruction of the family as well. Yeah, but remember when we talk about theres a difference between, ideology and ideology is interpreted by scholars. And ill talk about this in a moment because because economists are also going to to weigh in on this. And i generically to say, wow, weve bought this party even interest is in is right because theyre in gold and capitalism is and thats why thats i think youre exactly right and thats where i think the the comics kind of overestimate because i dont think there were Many Americans that were willing to experiment with communism. So was it really was this really a threat . Right. How many librarians across the nation were really willing to participate in communist cells a century now that they dont get any orders . I mean, its just this war that they get they talk to the kremlin once a year, they get their sign up. We did we they did send spies. They didnt want any archive interviews of spies like that. Again, though, i want us to think about the importance of of threat inflation. What that threat inflation, what are the consequences and implications of that threat inflation . Satchel i think on that point that at a certain point the the hyperbole ization of communism becomes that goes past the actual threat is as to reduce the like the problems america is facing at home because this is a point where theres a lot social tension right between class race. I mean, just theres a lot of problems in america. So theres a point where its not even that this is a threat, but if we recognize this threat, itll take peoples minds off of conflicts home and this is a great way to do it right because were not just fighting godless communists. But but look what theyre doing here. According to the communist mind. Washington on godliness humanitys misery. Its a perfect way to reorient americans society. Look. Yeah, i mean, i guess just to sort of i, i dont think it necessarily mattered. I dont think it was necessarily the communism that mattered. I dont think it was necessarily i think there was obviously a degree to which american were concerned about the spread of communism, about the capability of russia, china. I mean with the with like the cuban missile crisis. It was clear that the threat is and is real. But i dont think the core of this red scare Movement Really has to do with foreign communism. It has to do with groups that were concerned about what they saw as the decay of American Values in the family, in religion in morality. Like how in is this tomorrow theyre criticizing things like hollywood movies, right . Right. In aspects like euthanasia was also being criticized as, having its basis in communism. I think its to prop these values and to try and give them more urgency that the decay of these values is an urgent, i think, connect it to something thats kind. While it does have parallels, marxism and communism do have tenets include the destruction of, family, religion, etc. I think it is largely separate in that its a convenient scapegoat to create a sense of urgency in maintaining these American Values. How defining these american what they perceive as American Values that are on the decline. So i dont necessarily think it matters too much how the actual soviet threat was to the people making as long as it was being depicted this you could then argue for support of and then pick your. I think it really could have been anything okay interesting she besides the fact i think someone probably had to come up with that name again right there. Yeah right. Yeah. Thats all i need a word for. I need a word for you. Help me out here. Me out here. Whos got it . Im on godliness, right . And cleanliness sides that i think its interesting if they the first three conquest depression murder right. We just put that right next to uncle sam punching a guy from the philippines. Right . Right. Like really close together. Yeah. Again like, this is such an important point that you were all bringing out today, right . That this mere image in the parallelism, if you will, between soviet and what youre seeing in american books and and how this is kind of playing off each other, telling one thing i found interesting about like is this tomorrow when were talking about like the internal threat and and if it was kind of hyperbole ized and everything like that was the use of language in the comic as far as like every time there was a panel that talked about a strike or a peaceful protest, the was riot. Right, right, right and i found that very interesting because that kind of gaslighting right where were going to basically just say everything that we disagree with is, you know, some sort of like communist conspiracy. Right . And its going to be a violent event that we still see that happen, you know, to this day in the use language. So i think when you add historical imagery as like the great depression, World War Two, and then you, you know, some of that language like riot, which gives you a very different picture, like a protest or or exercising your right or basic rights in, a democracy right. So i think when you all of those things together, it creates that hyperbole threat. Yeah, yeah. Especially to a 1947 reader who lived through that. They would kind of reflected in those pages and nazi and militarism. Absolutely. And again, think about audiences here. Youre asking a young to do a lot with the imagery and a lot with the language here. And remember comics are supposed to be read where youre working text an image together. Youre asking a lot for a young reader to. We talked about the importance of social context and getting the in comics right youre asking a lot for young kids do this cross that line talking about possible scenarios started off leading to Something Else completely extreme right however like using the the verbiage and everything there was like the the crowning achievement or culminating victory was when the kid kid reported his parents. Right, right, right. Which was kind of like a destruction of like all values because it wasnt just all it was just destruction of a family. There, a religion in there. And there was a freedom of information. Right, right, right, right. It just kind of like pushed to that like and it yeah. Theres an interesting paradox here, right . Were talking about the importance of family, but were also then showcasing a young child potentially turning in his family because theyre communists. Right. The last. And theres. One way to preserve his. Right. Right. Yeah. So an interesting to day in terms of who has responsibility for childrens education. Right. The common causeor a lot of snitches on government. Right. Right. Yeah, yeah. Thats right. Snitches get stitches as long as its an anticommunist message. Thats right. Does that work . I think what theres also this interesting bit does where they have francis very powerful. You to pilot back in we got in cuba the way we knew they had the missiles was we had spy planes flying. So if were doing it but we dont we want to redirect it to oh the soviets are doing it about us. Yeah. In terms of there is a there is a message here and we saw from the reading last night. Right. That a message, an undercurrent message of its okay to fight fire with fire here if theyre so immoral that doing this right that these are good russian people, theyre just duped by these totalitarian leaders. If theyre doing this to their own people, does that loosen moral responsibilities for how we can a . Its acceptable for us to maybe occasionally step out of at we would deem moral because theres a greater good to be had here if we can intervene and save this poor russian family from these totalitarian soviet leaders, dont we have a moral obligation to do that . And if we act a little immorally while were doing that by fighting fire with fire, then potentially is okay because we are participating in a greater good. Yeah. The. World obviously at the times they havent like the concept it but they show the disappear and murder of someone right a communist spread like 40 years later we go on to dictators that are going to do the exact same thing to communist people. So its just interesting how we break, take the exact same thing. And then obviously they didnt know at the time that we were going to do this, but like we just kind of take it and were like, oh, well, they need saving thats right. And were going to see this theme throughout the course, right . That the comics will also tell very simple message here of good versus evil. And we want to make sure that its clear. Yeah. Real quick, taylor and i want to move on to is this tomorrow on that point though i do think that like like the article by savage yeah talks about the red menace. He talks about how, you know, in some of the superhero comics before it was very clear fight against good versus evil and and the morals were very clear like were not going to kill the bad. Were going to capture him and put him in jail and hopefully rehabilitate them. If right to my, you know, their minds have been to get to trade, but then but then like by the red circle he talks about how you know when you see the during kind of the red scare and and in the comics during this era you see homicide genocide being more reasonable and acceptable measures for these heroes to take. Right right right. So i think that kind of reflects maybe some of that questioning of morals and values that we might have had. And how do we how do we now place in this complicated that we have with like for heroes and regular americans when youre fighting this, do you potentially means are they just are potentially unsavory, means justified the ends and i think the dead especially with like tv showing images of whats happening for like vietnam when get there how do we how do we get when we get there but like how do we as americans deal with this imagery of war, we may not have had before and also with like morals and concepts of power, good versus evil. So this is an important point that were going to get as we we were a little deeper the semester of how well are these comics setting Young Readers up for the nuances of the complexities of a political military war like the american one in vietnam . I think the short answer right now is probably not all that well, all right. This is the big comic you read for today, this tomorrow, which now going back as i was kind of prepping for this imagery is kind of frightening in a way that i probably wouldnt have thought frightening, you know, a year or o ago. And ill leave it at that. All right. How do we answer this question . Was this comic book that you read for today more education or, indoctrination . So youre shaking your head like which is which . No, i. I would doctors. How come i took what i would consider form of fear mongering. Okay. I think that theyre theyre already in your country. Theyre already in government. Right. Right. And you need to take to prevent them from doing what you would further damage the rest the comic shows if you dont do what the last page says, the commandments of being a citizen, look whats going to happen. Look whats going to happen. Yeah. Okay, good shame. And then look, i think because can be by a Catholic Group and then throughout the whole catholics being persecuted all sort of stuff, i dont even give like a commandments at the end like the commandments of not very subtle not subtle at all. But i found it interesting. One panel, they said i think it was like catholicism promotes individuality or Something Like that probably to not be as like a central columnists, communal or whatever. Right. Although usually its like, you know, worshiping one god. So they would be like, oh, we dont want to be like worshiping stalin or sun. So were just going to say its everybodys individual. When this seems like theres lot of bias involved. Yeah, i think its really effective in blurring the lines between education and the nation because its easy now to look back and say, oh, this stuff didnt and look how hyperbolic this all clearly this was just blatant indoctrination. How did people not see how ridiculous seems . But in the moment when youre at this time it says like in in the introduction and in the conclusion of the comic, its like these are all things that have happened across the globe to start communist revolutions in other countries this has all happened before. Its presented very much like education and if youre a kid reading this do you really have any means of go in looking at the what the truth is or are you going to the word of something that seems know what its talking about and is pretty adamant about or when we get to comics like this, the espionage comics so were going to that was of an artful segway. But i do want you to think abo as we move through through this course, especially with comics like this, where this blurred line between education and and and how does one potentially t the other here . Oure seeing. Right. Is these a ripped out of the pages of the news right. Peally when we get to and we saw this a littleiti think, a lesson or two ago. Right. That these secret are not mythical. They are, you know, operating in bulgaria. But, you know, you look at bulgaria when you look at hungary in 1956, czechoslovakia, 1968, a little bit later, were talking about when you see communists taking in china and its all ripped from the headlines if youre a young reader, i think you are scared. And when youre seeing this in movies and and the news and seeing evidence of a communist takeover or attempted takeover in korea, i think it is pretty scary and may seem less like indoctrination and more like preparation education to go to to make sure that this doesnt happen to america dont dont we see some of that even today when people are youre Something Like perfect on the right on the news all these conspiracy theories all oh well its got to be true. I saw it on the news. I mean. Yeah, and you know, like, you know what we talked about just more broadly about the value, the historical discipline and our very first class about how to use information. How do you evaluate information . How do you evaluate sources . And for Young Readers are working through these big potentially apocalypse issues for a, you know, a ten, 15 year old to work through that as theyre reading amazing story of spy cases. It might be difficult work through that garrett i mean, it could be seen as like educational and doctrine and because like u. S. Is like where the guardians against communism, right . And so we use a lot of if we can use a lot of fear to make sure people go against because if falls and there goes our guardian against communism and so the rest of the world will fall. Yeah. And theres a, theres a sense youre right that we now actually do have moral obligation to intervene. And thats why i think the espionage comics are so important for us, because what theyre suggesting is, yes, theres potentially are traitors and sympathizers here at home, but theres also a fight to be had overseas and not necessarily a conventional of armies, but one of of of spies and and we have a moral obligation to help. Right. If we go back to that blood. Blood is the harvest. Dont we have a responsibility as a. Peter parker to help out because. We have the power to do so. John i mean, a good point is this man that comic books, especially comic books are kind of like the beginning stages of, political commentary, biased opinions, infiltrating like news in a way like then this was almost like its not news, of course, but there was a large information is this whats the difference between education and entertainment . The line is very blurred, really blurred. These two comic books. Just real quick before we move on, were going to come back to this. But i also, as i want you to note, the gender component here, look at the colors here. Obviously, the red piece of this and that, this luscious creature thats that, as shes described in the book. Were going to talk a little bit later in the course about the role of of sex and gender in terms of women who are seduced by communism, their bodies as literal weapons war. So just hang on to that. Were going to come back to this image a little bit later. But i want you to just tag this for right now and well hit it again and once more, even with these folks that are serving overseas, these in korea, we saw radio operators that turned into. Right. We saw folks that are supporting American Values overseas. But this spy game is happening here at home as well. Look at the language here, right . This this is rick davis of the secret service. Hes uncovering this plot to poison american crops. And karloff comes here. He works with you. American pigs who he hates, but its all worth it because hes right on the cusp. Now weve of unleasngis plan. Theres a lot of fear here, a lot of insecurity. And i think i think shawns right. We kind of have to work through the blurred lines here of entertaining and propaganda and information and think about how the readers were trying to work through that as well. And obviously, were not operating alone. We have our allies here in places like korea. Notice the language in tms of our agent cant throttle our north korean agent. And then is told by an appreciative ally that, hey, thanks for giving us democracy. Omise you weot going to give it up. So theres a sense here, i think, too, of of response stability among our allies, of being appreciative for what americans are bringing to the table. And that same applies overseas. You all pick your place. In this case, its romania. I have to be united against the threat, just like we are at home. And look at the language here. Dont you realize . The reds want people to split us up into dont make the same mistake. Yes, i know we have three, three captions now. The dialog is very efficient and theres no room for any right. All in anything like it. Its very interesting that dont theyre just forcing everything that they want down peoples throats. Yeah. Look at the language. This is. Lets do this real quick. Youre not alone. Whats he saying here . Were here to help. Were here to help. But this is a global fight that re all a part of. But were here to help. So be appreciative. Every freedom loving person is in this fight. Do you have a choice to partici pate or not . If you dont, what are you saying . That you hate freedom freedom. Dont you realize what reds want to do . Come together together, be unified and anybody that is not unified, that has a voice of that established consensus is a threat. And if you dont, youre youre actually going to lose to the communists. And that will be bad. All right. This is all frightening, isnt it . This is a real frightening picture of the red scare, the potential for, what it has to do not just to americans, but to the entire freedom loving citizens of the globe globe. And so when you have this conversation last lesson about the importance of comics contributing to a conversation about american identity, this has got to be a part of that. Its what we aspire to, but its also what were afraid of. And when we get to next lesson, were going to see it is so frightful of a threat that we have to get kids involved. Children have to be a part. Of this fight. They have to be indoctrinated into the message here because they are the future not only of our national, but of the entire United States, of if not the globe. All right. We get all right. Well done. Well see you. Next

© 2024 Vimarsana

comparemela.com © 2020. All Rights Reserved.