Transcripts For CSPAN3 Law Enforcement Officers Testify On Border Security 20170207

Issues. This is live coverage on cspan 3. Good to have you here, sir. With the texas peace officer for 3 years, in 1999, sheriff martinez promoted to Narcotics Service in eagle, texas, serving in capacity until retirement in 2007, 2009, and elected sheriff of elverde county and the sheriff of yuma county, arizona and Law Enforcement in yuma for over 30 years. Since service in the United States marine corps and elected sheriff of uma county in 2012 and continues to serve in this capacity. Final witness is the honorable eddie travino, served in Cameron County for 15 years. A partner and founder of travino and baudon law firm and from brownsville mayor from 2003 to 7 and 2016 elect foed Cameron County bench where he currently serves. I want it thank all of you for being here today. Statements will appear on the record. I know many of you have flights to catch. With that, the chair recognizes he mr. Mccrawfords testimony. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And rachki Ranking Member thompson. We have testimony about how big texas is and congressman, thank you for pointing that out. It is obligatory to note that 1200 to 1900 miles belongs to texas, thaents very important. It does impact what happens at the border, doesnt just stay at border, there are consequences throughout texas and the nation. We have talked to the secretary who did a great job to testify and some of those consequences of the heroin epidemic happening in the northeast than congressman fitzpatrick was worried about mp in 2014 when he was overwhelmed by the search and influx of central americans, it was a threat from a texas standpoint, governor, state legislature, proactive about doing something when it comes to protecting people and they are concerned about the influx of gangs, trance national gangs, cartel operatives, members, cocaine, methamphetamine and marijuana. And the other things that hasnt been talked about today, is sex trafficking. We are sent down there to do something, work with our federal partners but importantly coordinate with local and state partners. National guard, also texas game wardens. In direct support of the u. S. Border pa toll bord Border Patrol between the points of entry. As we have seen in doing so, you cant influence the amount of drugs coming in and the amount of illegal aliens coming in. Theres no question about it. Border can control physics. Can you go back to fiback to wh they were tacksed by ocmpd and said, it can be done. But they recommended what kelly was talking about today. Rather than wait for it to come in, prevent it from coming in in the first place. Theres many positive aspects of doing that. Thats the texas way weve been obligated to work with Border Patrol at the river. Not inward. And we have looked at fence and height, stack it, with water to sensors, cameras, towers, balloons, helicopters. And of course weve got 14 aircraft dedicated specifically to support Border Patrol agent on the ground. We have a tactical marine runity which i never thought we would have the opportunity to have the navy there and we do now. Thats what Border Patrol needed at the time. We dont need yesterdays technology for tomorrow. Those sensors are archaic. The private sector, expert in developing, technology and making it work, thaents what an we did in terms of making it work. We have 4,000 detection cameras, that are infrared, that they installed, not us. Border patrol installed them. We support them and help their capacity. But because they dont have that technology and they need it. Ive got no question whatsoever. I understand and the governor has been clear about this and so has legislature. We know Border Patrol can secure the u. S. Border. And the new chief named was an outstanding border chief. No question that he can do it. If given the resources to do so. And we look forward to working with the brave men and women of Border Patrol until that time. Can i tell you this, on behalf of the state legislature, i get to speak for them a little bit and governor as i talked to is chief of staff last night. Theres a concern that the amount of money we continue to spend at the state level and to a federal mission, it is right now, weve theres a price tag over 1. 4 billion. But our leaders and legislators have said we can provide money for the Border Patrol. Last thing we want to do is diminish or degrade what is out there. Im concern heed as i report tomorrow before the Senate Finance hearing is what im going to say. How am i going to explain. We are hoping strategically to get out of this. We have 732,000 deaths on texas highways. Not to mention Trans National gangs. Not to mention rescuing children who were victims of predators on our highways by troopers and another it 26 by special agents. We have a lot to do inside the state of texas, including Trans National gangs. Texas is a hub city for ms13. Simply because of an unsecure border. We must deal with those things. Right now our directive is to continue to support Border Control as we are and do everything we can as secretary kinley said, how fast can they do it . How long will it take to get those resources in place . With that, mr. Chairman, i conclude my testimony and questions. Thank you, steve. Chair recognizes sheriff martinez. Distinguished members, thank you for the opportunity to address you today on issues that affect every citizen in my border county. The state of texas and the United States of america has spent 39 years as career Law Enforcement professional. As immediate past chairman of the Border Coalition and current chairman of the coalition i dedicated my Law Enforcement career to serving the citizens of the state of texas right on the texas mexico border. Both at the state level and as a member of the Texas Department of Public Safety of local Police Department of city of del rio and now sheriff of vel verde county. Comprised of 20 borders all within 20 miles, 25 miles of the mexico border sharing approximately 1254 miles of bored we border with the republic of mexico. Vel verde county shares approximately 110 miles of border with a mexican state. The southwestern Border Coalition concludes the state of california, arizona, new mexico and texas combining for a total of 1989 miles of border between the United States and republic of mexico within the 1900 miles of border from san diego, california to brownsville, texas lie 31 counties. The terrain throughout much is from rural rafrm land, high desert to desert like valleys to ranges and most belong to private land owners. Some are national or state parks. So the need for each of these individual counties is unique in its own way. The coalition was founded in 2005 to find an effort to a regional solution to national problem. We all share common issues but there is no one issue more important than making sure that we secure our communities and which the people feel safe in homes and surroundings. Sheriffs have a vested interest in the Law Enforcement, social Impact Health and overall quality of life of those that we serve. Sheriffs are unique in the understanding of the pulse of their communities and public that evaluates during election time that determines whether they stay employed every four years. The Texas Border Sheriffs Coalition was organized and prep accidented by chief Law Enforcement office ef of each respective county. Texas sheriffs empowered by the state constitution are committed from National Security perspective to protect the lives and property and right of the people by maintaining order and security in the United States, along the republic of mexico border and enforcing laws impartially. While providing Police Service and partnership with other Law Enforcement agencies and community partners. The consequences of unsecured border are failed throughout the United States. Each county sits the the gateway into our country and is the first line of defense in dealing with Law Enforcement, social Economic Issues for both legitimate and ill legitimate trade and travel. Fshlegitimate trade and travel. Fegitimate trade and travel. Fsh fsh immigration responsibility lies within the federal agencies. Agencies we work with everyday have had a difficult job in carrying out duties due to administrative policy issue answers changes and not laws on our books. Sheriffs only encounter immigration issues as a buy product of other criminal acts which are referred to the federal government for their actions. Which are referred to t federal government for their actions. Some crimes are drug smuggling, murder, rape, Sexual Assault, Trans National organizations, and the list goes on. As many of you know, the lower population and Property Values most counties lack a sufficient tack base to support a multifaceted needs of the Sheriffs Office. Each and every one of us are affected directly if one way or the other by what happens on the boef bored eber and they are a such a national as tote protect the border as a national a safety. The problems here are manpower, travel and training, equipment, direct operatingen and answers contract services. Texas sheriffs Border Coalition have a more effective and less expensive approach base owned partnership of action. The solution by the Texas Coalition is one of cooperation being at table to discuss issues that affect all of our commune oints a daily basis, all federal state and Law Enforcement need to Work Together as we move forward in finding a solution and securing borders and our future. No one single form of government can go it alone. The plan for security in the communities along the boreder with mexico as presented by members of the Texas Border Sheriffs Coalition is to provide a regional solution to a national problem. Plan is based on partnership of action and not rhetoric. Based on cooperative agreements and willingness to watch Lessons Learned and put into place best practices. We have ownership in the respective communities and they understand how from a Law Enforcement, economic, social, health ander environmental perspective. In support of the men and women working on the front lines each and everyday. The differences in solution on Community Impact and policies and impacted by people a thousand miles away. Once again, thank you to the chairman, entire committee for this opportunity to address the need of o border sheriffs. May god bless the United States of america and every Law Enforcement officers protecting the front lines. Thank you, sheriff. We appreciate your work along the border with all of the sheriffs. Sheriff will mot . Good afternoon. Members of the committee. Thank you for the invitation to speak to you today on this very important subject. For geographical perspective, yuma county is at the southwest border of the state of arizona in california and we cover the border of mexico. We have roughly 110 bnt 5 miles of boundary we share with the state of mexico. Back in 2005, Border Patrol tallied 72,300 plus illegal entries. Adverse effects of drug and human egg trafficking organizations operating in numa county not only significantly dimirn the quality of life but also stress the Government Agencies of yuma county. There is a significant spike in ancillary crime such as rapes, robberies, homicides, thefts of property, burglaries, home invasions, tractor and vehicle thefts, high speed pursuits, assault on Law Enforcement, military enkurgs by the army and ransom Groups Holding those he that they smug agle across the bored forfor extra money. They are highly so fistcated a and inowe i have aity innovative in their methods. The backpackers we refer to as mules, the trafficking organizations resulted to the use of aircraft and drones which cannot be detected under normal radar. They are even utilizing clone vehicles of our Law Enforcement and loerj legitimate companies and most recently outilizing catapult tshirt launchers to get their bundles of marijuana into the u. S. Awaiting coconspirators. I have witnessed the escalation of violence and also have seen the successes that can be accomplished through coordinated Law Enforcement response with local state and federal partners working in concert in cooperation with the prosecutorial agencies as witness firsthand in yuma county. By fiscal year 2008 the number of illegal entries totalled just 15,t 15,900 in by a carson to the 270someoddthousand in 2006. Thats a decline of 90 plus percent. This turn around can be because of four different developments. Infrastructure. Fencing to the vehicle barriers to camera systems and surveillance equipment and upgrades, Border Security increase manpower for the United States Border Patrol, implementation of operation streamline which was a Program Designed for 100 percent prosecution of illegal entrants involved in illegal activity and operation stone garden which to us is sheriff and local Law Enforcement is one of the most major successes of any federal Grant Program we have ever witnessed before. With this we have a forced multiplier. Operational stone garden assists age sins with overtime kwagenci that we need. Sins with overtime that we need. They are directly linked to federal leaders. A, redefine the plan of the 90s and build upon those successes. Have to have the political will to make border secure mant dated program. Border security first, Immigration Reform second. Support and embrace the first line agents that work the Border Regions and our federal partners mp they have a dangerous job and it is no secret their frustration is high based on the unknown complexities in their assignments everyday. They have great ideas to share and it was refreshing to see general speaking about the fact that he would go to each geographic location and sit down with those areas, talk to state, local and federal Law Enforcement areas and see what is best for the geographic area. Continue funding for operation stone Garden Program. Thats vital to our success but we need to remove that funding by fema. Just by their very name they are cumbersome to Law Enforcement and to do our reporting and question those grants. Move those funding back to the department of Homeland Security where they know whats best for our mission as we partner along side our federal partners. I will tell you last year 30 million is what the sheriffs of arizona today swallow because we were reimbursed 5 cents on the dollar for housing illegal criminal aliens that committed crimes in our counties. In summary our efforts and team work if i lossity with local state and local Law Enforcement partners has proven to be ben fishlt in bringing overdue assistens to our border. One would hope that priority of securing our border doesnt become just about a price tag but to safeguard all of america. Todays opportunity to address this committee instills fresh hope that our voice does matter. Thank you, sheriff. I agree on all counts. Judge travino. Good afternoon. Ranking member thompson. I want it thank secretary kenny for distinguished service to our country and recent visit to the border last week. I hope to was productive and the first of many more to come. Im the federal judge of Cameron County, texas. Were also home to the premier Tourist Destination for many throughout the United States and mexico and given all of the attention over the past several weeks and months this Committee Hearing could not have been timelier Border Security, immigration and facilitation of legitimate trade on the u. S. mexico bored seis a realit we live with everyday. I try to inform this panel and others involved to make Cost Effective decisions on Common Sense Solutions working longterm and effective for all of us. On the border we have had to endure many policy answers programs put in place by federal and state governments many of them Unfunded Mandates and you just heard spef ral of them by the sheriffs. After 9 11 we fuelly understood the change force life on the bored. We believe in the rule of law and want our country to be safe and secure. Many of our residents answered the call to defend our country and unfortunately many of our local veterans were wounded or killed in serving our country. Despite 9 11 changes, businesses tlief thrive thrived. I come before you today to request that you seek other alternative and opportunities other than the border wall put forward by President Trump. The border wall concept is ineffective and creates a false sense of security. It does little for drug ka te cartel or gangs looking to harm our country. We must do all we can to continue to help them in their mission but not at expense of of the relationship of our second largest trading partner, texass second largest trading can be mexico. Utilizing 14th century solution it address a 21st century problem makes no sense especially since it is the most expensive of all problems for solutions. If we have a virtual wall of cameras, including uvas we arm our federal agent with resources they need perform their jobs. Improving Road Conditions along the border removing barriers like the salton sea or other nonnative plants that provide cover and more lateral ability on federal lands along the border will give agents a better chance of controlling and surveilling the border. I recently learned Technology Made in the sector have yet to be improved. Inimagine investing the 20 plilon Training Technology and more boots on the ground. Natural barrier of the rio grande can work for National Security. There have been extensive studies on the project by local utility bpub which would broaden the reach and surface area of the river making it that much more difficult to cross and once Illegal Immigrants are detained there needs to be commitment af additional finance resources to address processing. The judicial system is undermanned. There is a backlog of a maf a million cases that should be unacceptable for all of us. Despite what many say or want it believe, lowskilled workers arare kes pratt desperately needed in our country. The lack of Human Capital for socalled basic jobs in this country is something we should all be concerned about if we want our country to continue to proster and grow. On the issue of trade if a socalled border taxi hope this issue is studied in a more objective and rational manner. An eye for an eye policy will just leave all of us blind. Governor abbot said last week with general kelly we want to achieve safety and security but also promote economic development. We have made Great Strides as a result of nafta and Trump Administration want it make changes to such agreements and there are diplomatic channels in which to get the job done. It doesnt have to be difficult or adversarial. At a recent Border Summit from all sides of the political spectrum the message is the same. How can we improve ideas and suggestions coming through washington for our border. How do we tell start rift restaurant companies, hospitals, waitresses and countless others effected by consequential proposals. My democratic friends back home are worried. This proposal to build a wall, renegotiate nafta and not address Immigration Reform will have lasting effects across our country if we kick this problem down the road without addressing it. History will judge us on our access. We must build on successes by continuing to build bridges and not tear down or divide what we have achieved together with expensive, unbudgeded and out dated proposals such as a border wall. Thank you. I recognize myself for questioning. I got elected, hard to believe, over 12 years ago. Stating i would get the border secure. Here im going into my seventh year in congress and it is still not done. I think for the first time and there are differing issues as to how to accomplish this but we have the political will in washington it finally possibly get this done. It is a federal responsibility. Steve, not a state. I believe the state of texas, and my home state, stepped up to the plate. And taken on this responsibility. And instead of the federal government. My first question, as you prepare for your testimony for senate financing in austin, knowing that we will have defense border supplemental bill, what would be the ask, if you will, from the state of texas . Well, certainly, weve had chairman speak in ask of 2. 3 billion and obviously, going forward, and bottom line is how do you leverage consisting capabilities so that Border Patrol can get, can gain control and continue to augment level Border Security everyday and our concern after listening to secretary kelly who is very realistic that it takes time, and takes time to put the roads or build obstacles as opposed to barriers or technology and particularly so what does the state need to do to stave off incursion or influx or what we have done at this point in time and thats the challenge that we have. Going forward ideal think would be it would be we would be in a far better position if we could look and say hey, Border Control needs three sheriff deputies, game wardians, four troopers, two aircraft, three tactical boats, needs a s. W. A. T. Team, and leverage that like the stafford act. That would allow us to be able to capture not just the cost but also some of the operating costs that goes into it. It there the second made it clear, they are serious about doing it. Our concern is how fast can we do it . Because everyday matters. If you are involved in the sex trafficking, you are involved in the Sexual Assault and things we have seen, Mexican Cartel engaged in, everyday matters. But every level of security that increases, the better off we are. One thing i would like it add chairman while i have the microphone here, is that the great thing with technology, it is smaller and cheaper. And provides a new way of metrics we didnt have before as congressman was concerned about. How do you measure success . We dont have to use formula. We can prove what our collection posture is. Every trooper wsh every texas ranger, every special agent in their vehicle has a phone or gps device. I can prove, what is our posture. What secretary will address is the tracking. You would expect they would know if not just for a security standpoint and defend in terms of zaexactly what their securit posture is, it is a security issue. As you know, Border Patrol is threatened everyday. It is disgraceful the federal government hasnt prosecuted those who have assaulted federal agent in the performance of their duties. Until im confident that will change, but until that time, the texas border prosecutors step up to the plate as well as our texas rangers, we will prosecute them at a state level until the federal government prosecutes those cases. Were trying to build a record here on the committee as to how to move forward with this. Texas has a unique challenge with the rio grande. And you cant build a wall on the river. You can build levees. But i dont see i think it is actually symbolic, sayinging the wall, symbolic for a physical barrier, but multilayered defense using all available assets including technology and aviation and fencing. So i throw this out to all four of you. And i ask this of the secretary. How would you best describe the wall to finally achieve operation control of the border. And you have to chart from texas because our legislature demand we do have a way it measure success beyond numbers. Youve seen what we come up with. Unsecured minimal control operation control and substantial control and there are Different Things that have to be in place before you get to the next level. Those are measurable. If you can measure it and discertadiser discern it then you measure it. Absent, you know, the personnel, technology, things that the judge talked about, maybe the removal of salt, cedar and cane, is simply you know an obstacle to the cartels. An barrier. Because cartels the clearly go under, through and around it and certainly over it to be able to meet the unending demand for drug answers commerci drugs and commercial sex in the u. S. An obstacle but not a barrier sn. Yes, but it becomes a barrier when they step on that fence and can immediately see it and today you get to see a picture of it. You dont have to guess it is censor, fourlegged creature or two legs with a bundle of marijuana you know that by looking at it. No reason ton leverage the technology that is out there and available. Totally agree. Sheriff martinez . Yes. I agree with colonel mccraw. A fence is just barrier. But i think more importantly as manpower initially. Let me give you an example, in my county theres 84 miles from the lake to the county line. I have one deputy cover that country. On a good day, you will have anywhere from 12 to 15 Border Patrol agent to cover that same area can which will consist of 8,000 square miles which goes into crocket and sutton counties. So thats like a need nell a hay stack trying to find a needle in a hay stack. In that rug beyond a reasonable doubt geographical area of the state of texas. So manpower and combination with, you know, a physical barrier and some strategic locations along with technology will go a long way. Sheriff will mot . Yes, sir. I will tell that you in yuma county we had to do a con glomeration of all of that. You had to look at your geographic location and what are your natural and man made boundaries that you have. The Colorado River that goes through yuma and mexico, i have two tribal reservation chess is soverei sovereign land. We have the range which is our wbti Training Center for military forces that are being shipped overseas. I also have a u. S. Fish and wildlife refuge. So i think in each and every location much like the general talked about today, the secretary, is he needs to go down, ascertain from each location, what is needed best. It could be a fence. Could be vehicle barriers. It could be just electronic infrastructure such as radar operated camera systems or defection radars or lasers. But i think they need to approach that from the perspective on the boots on the ground level like i mentioned earlier in order to address that. Would access to federal lands help . That would be a law we would have to change. Absolutely, sir. We encountered that same situation in yuma county in 45 0 05, 06 when they were utilizing our National Guard putting in the fence. We did the brush clearing much like was asked about before because it was along the Colorado River corridor. It opened up recreational areas for the yuma citizens to enjoy again. Versus the criminal element that was so off tten exploiting, for getting their illegal contraban across the river. Mr. Chairman, just like everybody else on the committee, im more in a listening phase because i rely on what Law Enforcement has to tell us. I have met with our local Sheriffs Department and Border Patrol secretary chiefs and the thing that was surprising to me was when i learned they were not able to utilize and be on federal parkland National Park lands in order to do their surveillance and investigation. The other part of the equation was the fact that much of the technologies are several decades old and while severareceive. So in conjunction with the Technology Upgrade is that allow he boots on the ground more direct and quicker response because the people operating the technology or the uavs whatever it may be that is entailed will be in a better position to direct our boots on the ground to wherever the incident or impact is going to be. I think were all in agreement to the resources to upgrade technology and the boots on the ground is something that is absolutely need end he if i may quickly say, you mentioned that ten years ago when you first started when you were a former prosecutor you thought to have the Border Security i think part of the problem is mr. Chairman is that if we really, real hey utilize a clear definition for secure border, i dont know if we can ever achieve that. Reality is, as long as there is criminal element and human activity they will do everything they can to provide the product, whether drugs or human traffickings or whatever the case be, i think it is safe it say that the border is a definitely much more secure today than it was a decade ago or 20 years ago. I think thats important for the rest of the country to understand that because were aible to live our lives and have good quality of life on the border as a result of gentlemen to my right and Law Enforcement officials operating back home on the border. Thank you. Have you given us an excellent record, testimonial, as we move forward with our with our supplemental bill. About w what needs to be appropriated and what shouldnt be. With that, i now recognize Ranking Member. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And thank the witnesses for their testimony. Its been a long time since we had a panel of people who live it everyday. In terms of this issue before us. I think its been quite enlightning. The question that a lot of us have, why not come up with a sound policy that addresses Border Security rather than coming up with the product in terms of the fence. And i think as just about everyone has said, that there are ways that fencing might be good, there are other ways that technology, and other ways of using other things might be good. But when you come with a one size fits all model, that creates some real challenges. The rio grande river. Lakes and some other areas. Tribal lands. So i guess the question that im hearing from witnesses and i heard from the secretary and his testimony. That you will be involved in the process. So that rather than washington coming to your communities and say, well, big brothers here, we have a solution, we would say, what do you think you . Do this everyday. You live it. What suggestionis or recommendations that you might have. S or recommendations that you might have. And i think thats very good model for us to adopt. Because in washington we can just see one part. So for the record, we are 1500 persons short in the approved cpb allotment for boots on the ground. And i think weve been two years, three years. About two years trying to complete that. So if we get 5,000 more, that means we have 6,500 vacancies that we cant feel. So part of what we have to do is try to work with state and locals to figure out since we cant put all these boots on the ground, and having trouble filling it, how do we back fill it . Technology. You know, if we can see somebody, 5, 10, 20 miles away approa approaching an area, and if we had the ability to communicate with local Law Enforcement or whom ever, we can perhaps move the as tets thsets to that area. And for the sheriffs especially. Are you allowed to train with cpb and other officials in manner that gives you comfort or that there are some things you would like to see being done thats not being done . Sheriff martinez . Yes, thank you for the question. We work very well with our federal partners. We dont train with them. Basically, if we come across a crime that has an otm or mexican national, we refer those individuals to Border Patrol and work through stone garden. The last week we had eight referrals in our sector. So i take it that thats from the locals referring someone over to our federal partners and they take over from there. But going ton some of your questions, i like, you know, you say youre miles away but i would like to invite each and every one of you to our communities where we live everyday. Dont show up when they have all of the manpower and resources be visit us in our natural state and you can see the deficiencies that we have. That will be a big impact on what happens up here on your votes up here. Chair . Thank you, sir. I will tell that you there our agency trains quite a bit in the u. S. Border patrol yuma sector. We have an awesome lines of communication. Most of our training has to do with search and rescue type or narcotics introduction working side by side with their personnel. Most of that is under operation stone garden which i mentioned before. The other camper that were running into with sheriffs all across the United States right now is actually getting some sort of legal opinion in regards to the 287 g and the honoring of the detainers this our jails. Because some sheriffs and some places along the u. S. Are being sued for violation of Fourth Amendment rights. Told on one side we have to honor them by federal law and told state that you cannot honor that because you are violating this law or that law. Whether it is arizona, texas, new york, illinois, idaho. So the sheriff as a whole, the one thing that we need, is some sort of legal opinion in regards to honoring detainers for the jails. Thats one of the things thats a Significant Impact for us with individuals in our jails. Typically for us, they are booked into the jail and they go through the state process and get sentenced to prison and then are turned over to the state for doc. And thats something that all of the sheriffs across the u. S. And we articulated to the sheriff yesterday. Thank you. Judge, in your everyday duties, what Security Issues would you be concerned about, and do you see the wall as an answer to those Security Issues . From your standpoint . Thank you for the question, congressman. Let me point out that with regard to cameron and idalgo county, we already have 50 miles of fencing already in place. You alluded to it right now, when you say we have 1500 vacancies and we look at another 5,000 and another 6500, let me tell you how that impacts me locally. These gentlemen to my right, their responsibility is to provide local Law Enforcement to the communities they serve. Because of the change in dynamics in our country, they have also today become quasi federal agents because of the demands placed on them with regards to Border Security. The concern that i have and just for the record, the county judge in texas is not a judicial position, it is an administrative position. I dont want anyone to think im Holding Court back home. It is basically the mayor of the county. I work with basically all of the agencies in that endeavor. Can i tell that you in the valley, where there is local Police Departments, Sheriff Department, jailers, we lost a lot of those to the federal gast because whether it be Border Patrol because they pay better. We have low property taxes to fund budgets. In addition, we also have the medical costs to take care of them while they are in our custody. So what i referred to earlier as Unfunded Mandates are concern hes because we dont have an immense back load or Rainy Day Fund to help us get through these days. But we are doing the best we can. I think thats something. But we can. I think thats something. As Congress Takes this into account they have to understand that on the texas mexico border, the demands are so different than elsewhere in the kcountry. When we ask for funds and resources, we arent asking because we want them, we are asking because beneed them. We are already performing the job. If there is a big increase on boots on the ground which i think we all agreece is necessary, we need those funds our self to make sure local Law Enforcement po enforcement positions are wellmanned. I dont like when i hear about one officers patrol be 84 square miles. You you know what that means. He cant be everywhere all the time. Thank you. I yield back. Sheriff martinez, i agree with your point, go down and see it because you cant understand it unless you go down and see it. I advocate for members to do that. There is no real simplistic answer to this. It is multifaceted. Scott perry, pennsylvania. Thank you. Gentlemen, is it mr. Mccraw . Very briefly, some people dont like the terminology, the wall. Whether it is fence, unmanned vehicles, cameras, some kind of Security Belt along the boreder that keeps incursiones from happening, i think we need that but i think begins with an attitude that you want to uphold the law and defend the border of your country in a sovereign nation. With that you mentioned that one of the things that you saw a problem with is the federal government not prosecuting people here illegally that assault Border Patrol agent. Can you talk about that very quickly but with a little more depth to it . I can give you an example, and they are trying to make an arrest and the norm ool process, when i was in the fbi, we use toyed work federal assault on federal officers. When wa when i was in tucson, this is what we did. Killed by two drug traffickers from mexico and thats what we did. And the prosecutor, and the attorney would prosecute those things. And over the last several months, that hasnt been the case. There is no prosecution, they are turned down. We have add vvantage, we good i the District Attorneys Office and say, Border Patrol agents are being assaulted, not prosecuted. In texas a law and order state to assault the Police Officer and consequences. They get it, immediately take a case answers what we a cases. You said the last several months. It could be six months, eight months. Ill give you the exact time and exact cases. What do you think the impetus, what do you think the reason is for the i dont know. It is inexplicable. I do need to mention, the governor brought that to secretary kellys point. When he took the time, first secretary out of all the secretaries i met. I met some great ones. Secretary johnson, secretary napolitano, secretary ridge, he has been down there, asked questions, listened to briefs. Were very encouraged that he did that. Ive got no doubt he took it back with him and he will talk to the attorney general about that, that that will be fixed. Im confidence he that will be addressed. I would think that has to be a minimum standard so that the Border Patrol agent know when they are putting their lives on the line there will be a penalty as there should be for any officer anywhere in the United States. Turning quickly to federal parkland, can you give us an indication of, i dont think a lot of people realize that there a restriction for Border Patrol agents in those circumstances. Can you give us some information from your viewpoint on how that effects the ability of the federal government to safeguard the boreder . Yes. There are several pockets of refugee is along the rio grande river. To protect wildlife and what they do is often protect the cartels. Or smugglers. Because they are havens for hiding. Plus because Border Patrol, they are allowed access. Just not allowed to build infrastructure or use some of the tools they use for smug letters or traffickers in the area. We are hopeful that will be addressed. The area. We are hopeful that will be addressed. Sounds like if were serious about the border, something what toss change. Correct. The salt, and cane, it sucks the water out but also is a Security Risk and also works for the cartels. Okay. Sheriff wilmot, quickly, operation stone Garden Program and your trouble getting money through fema is something i would like for to you elaborate on and also reimbursement of your skap funding. And as you out if nonsanctuary cities which is important to note i guess from this is that sanctuary cities are receiving scap money. So inviting p em to be in their cities illegally and getting feder federal funds in that regard. Is that correct . Can you elaborate . Wh what we want to get across is if you have an entity that runes a jail that supports that then that funding should be given to the other entities that run the jail. That are tilely doing the job. I will tell you we still need to get a hundred percent reimbursement on that as well as medical cost associated with it. I cant take an individual who has die salysis three times a w, that impacts my budget for 117. I have 117 backpackers in my jail of which i still have 19. I wrote a letter to the attorney general of the United States because not pro cutisecuting th individuals. I cross tied dea so they can get these cases he taken where normally anybody would get charged. Im in the housing and cost of that. To this point, attorney general owed me 1. 8 million just for housing those. Sheriff, the National Government south of you, do they spend anywhere near the resourceors have the same diligence that have you in patrolling the border from their people going north ward . To answer your question in regards to yuma county, i will tell you we have great cross border communication with Law Enforcement counter parts and Work Together a lot in regards to promoting quality of life and safety of our communities on both sides of the border. And thats why we were able to do what we did to curb that criminal enterprise from do wlag they were doing in 05, 06. A perception that Mexican Government doesnt feel as strongly about Border Patrol or at controlling the border north of the border as we do. I dont know if thats accurate or not but i get that perception. My concern is all of the american taxpayers are paying for this and youre out the money because you provide the service and mefr can taxpayers cant afford to pay for it but what is the government from the south o doing from a tactical standpoint. My time is expired, but if you could elaborate throughout your conversation, i would love to hear it. Thank you. Chair recognizes. Would you like respond . I yield. If. Would you like respond . Or no . Whatever youre comfortable with. If you would like to respond, i will give you that time. I would tell that you in oregon arizona we have a great border. Arizona we have a great. We do training together, we cover the problems that were encountering in our geographic locatio locations. To a certain extent they are dwloog th doing what they can with what they have. Chair recognizes and to follow up on that sheriff wilmot. That arrangement you have with your koubtcounter parts on mexi side of the boreder with be thats why it is important to have that communication. I concur. You have to have that open line of communication. You made some reference he to state funds along the border and how it might have impact et for example traffic deaths and other parts of the state and perhaps affected other areas of responsibility that department of Public Safety might have had. Can you tell us how the diversion of funds have affected those other responsibilities . To begin with we werent overstaffed. We were understaffed for the number of troopers we need base p based upon the states growth. We have 13,000 miles of roadway. For us to do proactive high visibility patrols we need a trooper in each sergeant area. What we have to do because of influx and mission weve been given is to surge troopers have around the state. Doesnt matter if they are from perrington, and thats 14 hours way from the border. From texas or dool allas. Move them down there. Seven days straight. 12 to 14hour days. It not that month and month and wave after wave and we have doing that for years. Even any you move a trooper or special agent engaged in these targeting gangs for border to support Border Patrol, there are consequences to it. At the end of the day, most of the trafficking is coming right at the border. So there is positive impact in terms of the rest of the state. But it is still makes it less safe and other parts we take those resources from. So if you have seen a direct correlation to this diversion of state funds to the border with respect to traffic deaths. I can see correlations. But i cant say it is enough to make that causal term determination. I know just from the talking to sheriffs and other parts of the state when theres less troopers in that area, you know, they believe that it is less safe in that area. I dont disagree. Im just curious, have we seen an increase or decrease in highway traffic deaths . Increase in deaths across texas. And it is not just in terms of the rural area but urban areas as well. Thank you. Judge . I have two questions and about three minutes. First question with respect to the dam, how would that environmentally impact from either a Flood Control strand point. You know, the area we live in, and what would be the impact from a security standpoint . My understanding congressman is that after decades of studying, the Environmental Impact would be minimal at best. As you know, brownsville is the last stop and rio grande before it empties out into the gulf of mexico and because of the rapid growth weve had on both sides of the boreder from el paso south, everyone utilizes the rio grande south for water. It was a thought years ago if the river was to ever run dry in certain areas of the state there are trickles. Wou we would be in a bad, bad situation. Brownsville was very progressive in developing a reverse osmosis by utilization of ground water so the Brownsville Community isnt completely reliant on the river. It would raise a water level. Not impacting the water table. Which was nish linitially a con. And allowing Flood Control to be utilized in the event if we ever add shortage. At lake falcon, thats our reserve system, it was developed in the 50s and longterm goal is it would get replenished by Mother Nature any time we add natural disaster. No one forsaw the groaning on both sides of the bored enand its impacted so we have to be more aggressive as far as that goes. What is life like for the 96,000 winter texans from the midwest living in the Rio Grande Valley right now . Safe to say those winter visitors are our life blood during the winter months. They bring a lot of resources. They spend their money in the valley. They are a complete asset to the area. Many from midwest, minnesota, iowa, all those states. They are a huge asset. They spend their money. Good to mexico on a daily basis to shop and to receive medical care. And eat. They spend their money buying refrigerators and cars and consumable goods we rely on. Their Economic Impact basis is huge. If there was any chaos or danger down there, they want keep coming in the numbers. They continue to grow each and every year. Thank all four of you for being with us today. Chair recognizes mr. From texas. Thank you. I appreciate you being here today. Mccraw, martinez and trevino, you have helped educate me a. My first question is to the two sheriffs. Maybe sheriff martinez, you first. We talked about stone garden and it was talked about moving funds back to dhs from fema. Is there other uses stone garden is restrictive in how you can use those funds. Are there other areas where you currently cant use stone garden funds. And sheriff martinez, lets start with you. Then wilmot. And director im sure have you opinions too. There has to be some flexibility. Border patrol, dps, every sheriff is short on manpower. We are talking about hiring all kind of people. I would like to see that same opportunity extended to the sheriffs to be able to hire manpower to is ysupport and sec our border. Because right now you can only use stone garden funds to pay overtime. And you could like to use those initial funds for first year salary or Something Like that . Correct. Congressman, ive been listening to the sheriffs talk about this for a good seven years. They can only eat so much overtime. You can give them all the overtime in the world but to use that money if you allow them to use it as an agreement up front this is only as long as the money is there and now all of aud theyve got increase of resources. Thats better for Border Patrol and for the state as well. There is value in that investment. There are other funding streams more flexible. Though we like what the dhs did with that. Of course the state doesnt get any of that. Obviously it is labor intensive just doing reporting requirements as well as purchasing of the equipment that we need. It also restricts the equipment with regard it fema. You can only use so much for overtime then you have to use so much for equipment and then he so much for mileage on your vehicles. It is broken down and you cant change the percentage. This goes local Law Enforcement at least in arizona, as well as share with other counties along our borders. And the state as well. Thats where we need to keep it. Dhs is equal to say, we need to say we can keep that equipment. This is a broad brush across the whole border. General, my next question is for pup when i got elected and came in last congress, we add lengthy debate about what operational control of the border means. In your materials you provide the texas Border Security level answers i thought to use dpss perspective on what operational control means because of all of the arguments and conversation ive had on this, it seems to be the most thoughtful. So the first question is, have you seen red suns in framework and do your partner states, do your peer organizations have a similar perception on what operation of the border means . I dont believe so right now. But we have worked with the Sheriffs Office to work on standards. We have worked with federal partners, go back to any study back to the 90s and it the same thing. You capital use illegal aliens to predict success and fiailure. Now we can actually identify, track out the level of security. We have come up with simply figure out what levels of securi security are. Agree on them. Count them. Crack them. And unless you can prove it, there is no way to justify we are saying at this point or that point. You cant just prove it too. You cant say im operational in control. The advantage we have is gps. For. Skillant. Thank you for your leadership on this topic. Again, as we have debates up here, we need sto speak the sam language. I have run out of time. But one thing i will follow up with you all is intelligence sharing. How do we improve that . How do we make sure by are able to extend our defenses. Lets stop the problem before they get to our borders or if we know something simment in and you know, you all are the ones called first. Not Border Patrol, when there is a problem. So i look forward to talking about that with you all in the future. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. Chair recognizes mrs. Watsoncohen. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Judge trevino yes. Did i say that properly . Did you. I have a couple of questions first. You pointed thut Cameron County owns three international bridges and you described how critical cross border trade is to your economy and how important that cross border travel is to your constituents. How have staffing shortages at port of entry affected bridges in your county, shortages resulted in increased wait times . And what more should the federal government do to support cross border commerce and trade . Because of short aenls ages, can be much longer. It is not unusual for people to live if brownsville and work in matta morris or live in matta morris and work in brownsville. There are crossbored enindustries that rely on each either. If someone is going over there for work they kind of have to do it. But for those looking to either more after recreational, to eat, shop, dine or receive health care on other side, the reality is we will have less an less of those weve had that and the impact. Not going to tell you the cartel didnt have an impact. But things have calmed down. It is critical at the National Level because at the local level thats what needs to be done and thats what local Law Enforcement, they rely on counter parts on the mexican side and vice versa. Whether locating an individual who want to be or is under indictment or charged with a particular serious crime, whatever it may be. Obviously Staffing Levels need to be at the right where the wait times are as minimal as possible without sacrificing security and surveillance. But also allow more individuals that are crossing with illicit druggis or whatever the case may be. What is it that you would tell the federal government that you think it should support or do in order to support and sustain and insure that there is this sort of cross border trade and travel that is both sufficient for the economy and safe for communities. In addition to increasing staffing, we would heavily request a reinvestment in our infrastructure. While the county owns a bridge, all of the facilities are oebd by the federal government. Gateway bridge was open in 1960. Theres been literally no reinves vestment for upgrade to the present. We wmoved all of the truck traffic from the gate wathe gat bridge to another bridge. Facilities at gateway are just sitting there. If we open up additional lanes of travel we did a recent trip to el paso, we have one pe defenda pedestrian lane for all three bridges. In el paso with one bridge 14 lan lanes, looks like an apoirport me. I know it would generate a loss more revenue at local bases and allow us to enhance the relationship between our border communities. Thank you. A very quick question. If mccraw, martinez and wilmot could answer. My question has to do with the proposed wall. Do you believe that proposed wall is the best utilization of resources to keep youre borders protected in the areas that you represent and are concerned with . Ill start with you, mr. Mccraw. Yes maam, as i indicated before and i apologize for not being here. Not at all. Secretary kelly noted, you get down to the country you have a barrier out there already, natural barrier. How do you exploit technology, exploit resources on top of that. P t is not one thing for one area. It changes. As the judge notes very well and Cameron County, you build a wall, doesnt make sense. Very good point by one of the congressman today about lake almstead, very good point. But you need a barrier between points of entry. Thank you. I have exceed my times if i could simply get my questions answered. The ladies time has expired. So you are not extending that very short request and indulgence . Just to make sure i understand that. I will allow them to answer your question. Thank you. The fence in and of itself is not the only answer delray is separate bade 2 miles fence that made our side of the border a little bit safer when it comes to property crimes. It rerouted everything to the outside of the fence. But it and of itself is not the answer. 10 1 2 miles of boreder with mexico, yuma, most of it is fenced and other areas that havent be fenced have vehicle barriers. I will tell you that once that was put into place the humanitarian side of that, prevepting daebl preve preventing deaths in the desert has stopped. Ive today process 14 victims that were left for dead on one occasion when it is 115 degrees out. I dont think anybody wants to experience what we have had to see as Law Enforcement when we have to process victims that have been abondoned and died. 14 all at once, just a travesty. To see them whaen thand what th through, and to see that fence go up, for me, what skost ofis after life . Thank you, gentle lady. Thank you, gentlemen for your testimony today. I border and back to the interior of the country. Can you give me your experience and position ou how effected 287g has been at the border and then further away from the border . Is it is it well utilized within Law Enforcement . Is that your experience . Congressman, depends on the agenc agency depends on the locale. It works in jails. They train individuals to look and identify and query some data bases and thats helpful. When they get a hit on priority hit through fingerprints. Certainly from an investigative standpoint. Used to work terrorists it was an advantage or drug traffickers, a legacy of ins expert on the team. It would help in many ways and forms. But each jurisdiction needs to decide that. We have a jail population of 1200 plus. Isis in our jails everyday. Detainees are honored in our facility. And in regards to your question, congressman, in regards to the 287g we participated in it at one time but i cant use taxpayer funding to do the federal job. So only on overtime basis, if they had the moneys to be able to pay our officers on overtime to perform that function. What we have done in yuma because they are right there, working with us, is they have access to our facility. And they can screen through all of those documents. They placed a hold on the question for the sheriffs throughout the u. S. That does not that ability to have a twohour sponsor hour response for someone to pick them up is by what legal ability are they able to honor detainers. Thats as far as sheriffs across the whole u. S. Impacted with, they dont have that privilege of i. C. E. In our counties. Most leave our jails and go to prison. I he dont believe our local Sheriff Department is involved in that but i have to get a better for you. I wish i could tell that you right now. Thank you, gentlemen. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. Now recognize i think the last member, gentle lady from california. Five minutes. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, i would like to ask for you now, the statement prepared by the American Immigration council be submitted for the record. Without objection. So ordered. Thank you. I want to follow up on some of what was asked. Theres ban numb theres been a number of comments about the wall not being a barrier. And in the packet i see people climbing over a fence. It appears to be easy for them to hop over. Who is the wall most effective against . Is it most effective against the drug cartels . People smuggling drugs . Or the families that are coming over because they are escaping violence . Who is it most effective against . It is equally effective to either. Frankly. But again, as i testified, and i believe the sheriff testified, unless you have noeblg ji on that fence, unalso someone is observing, unless you have coverage on that fence, unless you have someone to have the introduction when someone comes over that fence or under or through that fence, it is an obstacle and not a barrier. How often can be does anyone have any information on how often or how frequently the Border Agents will catch someone hopping the fence or shortly after they have . I guess in hopping the fence, i dont think they have that many app rehengs where im located. But for the week of january 27th through february 3rd they apprehended 461 individuals in the del rio sector. Del rio has a twomile fence. Maverick county, eagle pass, texas, has a threemile fence. So all those individuals with that were, my belief, all of those individuals that were apprehended were apprehended outside of that boundary. They were apprehended people that turn them selves in or people that were didnt voluntarily turn themselves in . I believe they didnt voluntarily turn themselves in. Sheriff, wilmot, do you want to add to that . Congressman, i would have to refer to Border Patrol for those numbers. I dont have that Number Available to me. I can only comment on the facts i know for sure. Right. The only comment i would add is in the fact in speaking with the local border spector chiefs, i know app reherehensions have decreased over the years. But i dont have specific numbers. Okay. Sheriff wilmot, i know some people have asked about this, you advocated for removing funding for fema and move it into dhs. Who would suffer by fema fundings that you are advocating that we move funds over . I dont believe anybody would suffer any financial loss from moving those funds from fema to dhs. They started out in dhs to begin with, as i understand. So nobody loses any funding. Do you know what their current funds are used for that we would pull from fema . Those funds were specifically designated from the very beginning for operations stone garden overtime and equipment. To help partner with counter parts. There is no funding removed that im aware of from any other budget for that to happen. Congresswoman, it was administratively changed. It was in dhs, then moved to fema. The funding didnt change, just who administrates it. Thank you. The last question, wilmot, you mentioned a number of deaths in the desert. Can you elaborate on what you said and how that prevention occurred . What was it that caused prevention . As i stated in the beginning of my testimony in 2005, 2006, yuma county was the worst in the national in regards it cross border traffic as well as criminal element that so much accompanies it. And we were experiencing, unfortunately, having to go out into the desert sometimes on a weekly morely basis to recover those victims that were abandoned by the smugglers out in the desert. We as sheriffs, we are the ones that have to respond out there. Whether its federal land, state land, we have to prs says those crime scenes. And our officers were going out there, as ive stated, if not weekly or monthly, to recover those victims that were left out there abandoned to die. What prevented that . The deterrent factor, between the partnerships with our federal officers, combination of fencing, Law Enforcement presence on the border an technology with the cameras and sensors to be able to predict individuals crossing the desert was all a contributing factor in reducing the criminal element and those individuals being victimized coming across. Rapes, robberies and homicides. If i could just add, in Brooks County, working 563 deaths in that county and they are a hundred miles from the border. Thats the people that have come across. I dont know the makeup, if there is a fence there, but thats what Brooks County suffered since 2006. And all that i think a lot of that is at taxpayers expense. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you. And i want to ask one last question. I know have you flights to catch. Ill make it fast. We hear a lot of bricks and mortar versus fencing. I hear a lot of people talking about they want a brick and mortar wall like israel. It will be most effective. Then people like yourselves who live down there, aep tnd the fencing, can you see through it, as an vadvantage, if done correctly. Anyone on the panel have comments on that comparison . No. But i think secretary kelly made a good point about seeing through it. You like to see whats obstaclee of capability. There is value in that. I tend to agree. Sheriff martinez . Yes. Ive been to israel and ive scent fence there. I see what they go through. Just hearing in d. C. , how many fence jumper have you had here on this property here . And it took a federal officer to neutralize that situation. The same fence back home will need the same situation. I will agree it helps to see through. We have that type of fencing and he it is a plus as far as our Border Patrol agents are concerned. You know what is on the other side. So youre not encountering a threat without even knowing it is five foot away from you. Exactly. Mr. Chairman, from my meetings, conversation with Border Patrol agents, they certainly appreciate the fact that they are able he to see and not necessarily always be seen. The concern behind a more concrete or less visible barrier would give the advantage to the other side. As sheriffs have i lewded to, they have to know what is on the other side to properly effect it is helpful. A lot of these members that, you know, the bricks and mortar have never been down there. You guys are the experts. Thank you for being here today. Members may have additional questions in writing. I would ask you to respond. One last comment . I would like to throw out there, that our priority would be also to add in being able to support the u. S. Attorneys office and getting u. S. Attorneys that can actually handle the caseload. And they built a beautiful federal courthouse in yuma county that only has one magistrate. So all of our u. S. Attorneys have to travel three hours to get to court in phoenix. They could save a lot of money by hiring addition district judge in yuma. And secretary discussed that and my counter sessiones with Jeff Sessions, who will be the attorney general. S with Jeff Sessions, who will be the attorney general. He agrees. We talked about operation streamline, which is a deterrent standpoint with prosecutions. Also pursuant to rule 70 the hearing will be open for ten days. With that, without objection, committee stands adjourned. U. S. Senate today confirmed u. S. Businesswoman betsy devos as education secretary. The vote is 5150. Vice president mike pence was in chamber and cast the final vote to break the tie. Senator Jeff Sessions is next u. S. Attorney general. If all debate time is used, a final confirmation vote could happen at about 6 50 eastern tomorrow evening. The chamber will move on to consider tom price to head the health and Human Services department and steven ma nuchin. Sunday night on q a. But in all these years, i have never seen a case where the snowden case where journalists have accepted individual from a single source, edward sainowden who is in moscow under the control of the russian government. Edward j. Epstein on how america lost its secrets Edward Snowden the man and the theft. They say he did enormous good. Thats their view. Maybe he did some good. Because he started a national conversation. And he opened up a subject of interest. But i think where trump is certainly right is that this man has not faced justice and he deserves to face justice. Whatever we decided. Sunday night at 8 00 eastern on cspans q a. At ninth Circuit Court of appeals heard a case on refugee and immigration ban today President Trump is meeting with sheriffs at the white house saying he is prepared to fight legally for the travel ban. This is half an hour. Nice to see up. Nice to meet you