Transcripts For CSPAN3 Latter-day Saints Migration In The 1800s 20220724

1998. He specializes in latterday saint immigration studies. And is the editor of saints by the sea saints by the sea website which documents lds maritime immigration in america in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Hes editor and compiler of the mormon immigration index which was released in 2000 in his widely used by researchers. Woods has authored and coauthored more than a dozen books and scores of articles on lds history and as collaborated collaborated on several documentary films. The most recent being the saints of tonga a century of island faith, which is a companion work to his 2019 book. He is what lectured extensively at conferences universities churches and libraries and we are thrilled to have him back at here in kansas city at the central library. Please join me in welcoming dr. Fred woods well, good afternoon. And thank you jeremy for your kind introduction. I also appreciate on this sunday afternoon we have. Joel jones the assistant director of the library and appreciate him being here. Appreciate all the help that ive had with the technology. I hope things are. Working well, this sound like things are up. Okay, so even though theres only a few here. Theres untold at least 10,000 listening in right now. So well, i hope you have a good time today. I want to have a good time. I think history should be enjoyable even when you you deal with some things that the good the bad and the ugly right . So i for me, i like to generate light instead of heat. I will tell you right up front that im not six six generation mormon heritage. Im a guy that street wise from la that tied into the latterday saints is an adult and so i think it might be helpful for the audience. Those are very face and cultures because ive looked at this topic in many others from the outside looking in and now from the inside looking out that makes sense. So im going to kind of just take you on a tourism of some things. Im going to talk about this topic. About 4550 minutes and then open it up for questions. I want you to have that opportunity, but if you can wait till im finished and i say okay q a time. That would be nice. So lets just kind of get into this. I wanted to thank byu for their support of all my projects. And by the way, i love the Missouri Valley room right over here if youve never been in it, youve got a youve got a pop in on your way out. And most recently i was looking to have 532 sources only to be used in the misery valley room on if you searched a word mormon if youre looking under latterday saints, theres 459 sources only to be used so they have a very rich collection of latter days saint sources here. So with that i want to go back to 1833. Now what you need to understand and so what this is like were talking history, right . Its like i you know you have this demon us, but hopefully by the time that you we finish this, its like we right we go from conflict understanding and things work out but i wanted you to say before even laying this thing out that i was thinking this morning of a 1828 Protestant Missionary journal. I read a guys coming from new england. Hes being sponsored he gets to Jackson County right on the the border right . You have the, you know, organized territory once you crossed the river. And hes saying that this area at that time certainly not now. Was the most godless place he had ever seen. I mean this was on the santa fe trail this makes you know gunsmoke look like kiddie cartoons. Okay, it was a wild place and you know you read that in his account. There was a multiplication of the women practicing the worlds oldest profession. There was a lot of whiskey it was crazy. It was wild there was cockfighting and and people trying to take each other out from time to time and when the federal marshals would come into erie. He said there was a scurrying across the border, right . Kind of like if youre a drug runner in san diego and youre going to tijuana Something Like that, but this is how it was in the 1830s. It was rough and tumble now we have some great upstanding citizens and things have changed but it was i mean mixing latterday saint culture with what was in at the time was like oil and water. It just wasnt jowling at all. Okay, so i want to just point that out as we get into this and there was this they call it the mob manifesto in history where the missourians at the time were making their point of why they wanted latterday saints to leave. Okay, they were tampering with the slaves or they were northerners and he had a lot of people of course that were southerners coming in on the missouri side accused of being friendly to native americans in indian territory, right we had missionaries that were sent over there and they were worried youre going okay, youre gonna get the slaves to revolt youre gonna get the native americans and youre going to come after us and there was economic and competition as well so this these were these were issues. I mean when the latterday saints were all voting for one person kind of block voting. This was a problem when you have like 3,500 people in the community and all of us sudden. Youve got a herd of these mormons coming in, you you know the tune of 1200. So weve got to understand i i mean i can really see the other of the issue. And so we have these land policies. You know, how would you feel if someone said to you . Well, you can either sell us your land or were going to take it from you right this kind of an attitude. It was so we could have done better as latterday saints. We could have generated light instead of heat on a number of days weeks and even years so theres two sides of the story and im hoping by the time i get through this shell you can see this so some of the factors i can see so this is what the mob manifesto this is what they laid out like july of 1833. You need to leave because of this this just is not working. Okay. So this idea of latterday saints boasts of taking missouri lands or going to take they were gathering in haste. They were told dont gather in haste, but be consistent with the feelings of the people dont over try to overpower them. Okay . And some of the things they were doing wrong. There were jarrings contentions indian strife. Theyll say lustful and covetous desires and their latterday saints scriptures, so this is kind of laying out the big picture and anyways a result of this by 1833 latter days saints are cast out of Jackson County. But that isnt the really thats kids stuff compared to what happens five years later. Five years later, we have the governor of missouri lilburn w boggs. Who issues an extermination order and quite frankly and fairness to him. I think he didnt want to just go around and trying to kill mormons but rather he was saying look at if you dont remove peaceably were going to have to do something else, but i dont think he was trying, you know to to. Take out as many latter days saints as he is he could but this is whats happening. Theres a lot of misunderstanding today, you know, i think were Getting Better at this. I hope we are i you know, i love the the idea of seeking to understand before we seek to be understood, you know, trying to understand the other persons perspective. This is what its all about. Trying to look for the the Common Ground instead of the battleground, but this is the background of whats cooking here. So what happens is that latterday saints by the thousands about 10,000 theyre going to leave western, missouri right go east and theyre going to go into the area for the most part in quincy, illinois. And eventually theyre going to migrate a little bit north to an area called commerce. Thats later called nauvoo, which is a hebrew word, which means beautiful. So some of the saints are saying to their leader joseph smith. I mean joseph this place is like a mud pit, you know, theres mosquitoes or swamps and he says look at well just drain it and will call it nauvoo meaning a beautiful place. So that was the idea. But whats happens here is when theyre driven out. Its its during this frigid scenar season always seems to be winter when the saints were moving and then we created that frigid season with bitter feelings. And this resentment youre going to see . Carries on into salt lake and theyre a little bit more i think comfortable talking about what happened in missouri once they were on safe turf quite frankly. So theres a number of them had a very difficult time. Theres 678 petitions we know of that are file that the federal government. And the president United States at the time in 38 says your causes just but i can do nothing for you because of the issue of states rights, you know and didnt want to lose the vote. So we have these kinds of issues that are going on, but what i want to talk about today, im dribbling the ball now were going stocked and malone slam dunking. Heres the focus. I want to talk about. Well what happened after the extermination order between the time of 38 and 68 because remember the Transcontinental Railroad comes in at 69, right . So what happens and i might also say that people that study pioneer history they to have this issue, its kind of a cultural myopia where theyre always thinking about the trail the trail the trail they dont think about the sale and the rail, right . Theyre just focused on this and so hopefully today you can see kind of a different aspect of migration west immigration west and and see whats cooking here in the will be fair to now is this showme state . So and i want to also say that my familys lived in missouri. I used to be a visiting professor at umsl out in st. Louis and really the the western side and the eastern side and this time period was really quite different. We say the extermination order in the you know in all of missouri when in actuality there are newspapers saying that boggs is you know, what the heck is he doing . Right . This is so is an oasis in st. Louis at the time. Okay, rather than it being a hotbed as it was in, western, missouri. Lets just get into this and by the way the most important part. Is that last five minutes and when mike brings up the mics here and its my sign . Okay. I got five minutes before q a. I want to drive it home that even though things were looking rather bleak. Right and the early period that things have really changed in the last 50 years, which is awesome. So here we go. So what did latterday saints experience when they passed through, missouri . Okay. So this is you know, you might be wondering. I mean it was a twosided things. They werent you know, these are people that have strong feelings towards each other. Those are those are tough things. To deal with and we have to kind of we got to listen to the other person. I want to go back to the idea that as you if you picture so theyre driven from western, missouri. Clear across the state about 200 miles. So theyre going into that area if you picture quincy north of saint louis. And then they go into this little area that they call nauvoo. Now in this area, this is actually a deguerreotype from 1845 okay, so we get we whats nice about the nauvoo period is the first time that we have latterday saint history and photographs because louie dalgur is frenchman that invinced this photography to gerotype once we get here and they came in 39 right now. We have actual photographs of what is cooking in these latterday saint communities. So this is an important time period and that building right . There is really important. That is the latterday saint temple. Okay, ill come back. Ill end on temples at the end of this thing. But this is the outhouse picture. Were here. This is the the river here looking up and so this will become a magnet for latterday saints coming from the british isles. So about one out of every four latterday saints in the nauvoo period were from england. Theyd sent missionaries over. All right, and they came from liverpool. Up the mississippi cross the atlantic up the mississippi through saint louis and on their way to nauvoo and so we have this interesting history and i should tell you this too latterday saints. Felt obligated to record their experience of what they said was like going design just like for a would be coming to jerusalem the alia the ascending so i would say this along with this, Missouri Family room here. In Salt Lake City they have whats called the Church History library and even if your catholic jewish protestant agnostic atheist, whatever theres hundreds and thousands of first person immigrant accounts describing what it was like to go through america in the mid19th century. This is really interesting stuff with a lot of you know people that were fresh converts and its like what was it like to experience this or that and so i love it and i share with my my historian friends of different cultures and faith that this is you got to you got at least take a look at this. You got to to look at everything, right . So here we go. So these these . Latterday saint converts coming from the british isles. Theyre coming as i said from liverpool in new orleans and just kind of making their way up here. You can see nauvoo. And you know, i dont know if you remember the the movie. Do you remember dead Poet Society Robin williams . He says sees the day, you know the stories they had to tell, you know, leaving your your homeland youre joining in a different faith. I have four different faiths in my own family alone seventhday Adventists Church of christ evangelical baptist and latterday saint me but this was really Emotional Trauma when somebody joined the church of jesus christ, saints made that leap and the adjustments of leaving homeland family. These were real things real things. And there was some feelings about missouri. This is one of the famous latterday saint leaders partly parker pratt. And so hes talking about how he landed with my family 80 miles below saint louis the company continued on my reason for landing. There was i would not venture in missouri after the abuses. Id experienced their informer times. Now as i go through all these things keep in mind that im fully aware that theres two sides to every story right, but this im just going to give you now from the that latterday saint perspective of what theyre theyre thinking about these things. Thomas wrigley we for some time felt afraid of the extermination orders of governor boggs, which were still enforced. Okay. So this is five years after the extermination order. Stand kimball who is a great historian from edwardsville. He knows at the time of the extermination or several saint louis newspapers condemn governor boggs and supported the saints. Some of the local saint louis citizens even held meetings for the purpose of raising funds to a sense the latterday saints in their dire conditions, so a different story there and in quincy, you know, its right at the time theyre coming across where theres been, you know 800 banks of collapsed in america. It was a financial panic kind of a deal. They wanted someone to boost the political side of things so economics politics and really humanitarian appeal. They just felt sorry for them. So this was big big business in the the mid 19th century coming through saint louis the steamboat business, you know, youre youre traveling about six days across this the state and esteem boat and 207 miles on the hannibal and saint joe Railroad Rides so a little faster, but so we have these different accounts. I dont know if youre aware of this but somewhere between 3,000 to 4,000 latterday saints. Were in saint louis during this period of the early 50s. And there was an immigration agent here at Church Leader nathaniel feld and its interesting the latterday saints even had their own newspaper the saint louis luminary. Okay now because of polygamy these latterday saint newspapers were launched in the 50s. So in 1852 from Salt Lake City it came out. Yes, we do practice polygamy just like Abraham Isaac and jacob, right . So the message is boom came out there then all this sudden you see the western standard newspaper of a latterday saints in san francisco. Youve got the mormon in new york. Youve got the st. Louis luminary and even as far as sydney, australia, youve got science watchmen, so they have these things in place to defend their doctrine of polygmy for example is a biblical doctrine and also to teach the immigration the gathering design as they called it. Okay, so you had these newspapers. Saint louis is a fine large and flourishing city and as furnished employment to many hundreds and thousands of our brethren. Heres another misnomer for latterday saints that do like use family search and and i have the saints spicy website that jeremy talked about um anyway a of Different Things. People think that mom and dad and the kids all came together they left from wherever liverpool and then they went to salt lake. They dont realize that sometimes they were stuck in boston, philadelphia, new york saint Louis New Orleans for months and sometimes years. Trying to raise enough money to be able to continue the journey. Once they crossed the atlantic. Does that make sense . So this is this idea of having jobs and in the missionaries be looking. Okay. We need they had they send the passenger list ahead of time. Its like, okay. We need eight miners over here. We can use someone, you know, whatever vocation theyre just theyre setting things up to try to help them. But the idea at this time was it was a temporary location. To make it to salt lake. Once the city the saints is firmly established, then it becomes out migration. And latterday saints in the mid 20th century start coming out to the st. Louis area, kansas city area those kinds of things largely because of employment. Now youre i know youre many of you. Probably all of you are familiar with the missouri republican. So i think this is interesting what they have to say about latterday saints. Okay, our city is the greatest recruiting point for mormon immigrants from england and the Eastern States whose funds generally become exhausted by the time they reach here for anything i was talking about they stopped for several months and not in frequently remain here for a year or two pending the resumption of their journeys assault lake there at this time in st. Louis about 3,000 english mormons nearly all of whom are masters of some trade. So this was actually a good gig for everybody. This was synergist. Just this was winwin right so im trying to contrast what was going on the western missouri with whats going on and incidentally, this is 15 years since the extermination order. Right, so we just kind of keep those things in mind. What about the northwest . I know one of the our people visiting today mentioned they were from the northwest. This is interesting because as you look at the mormon trail here. See, so theyre going to leave. Theyre all so driven from nauvoo, illinois and 46. They crossed, iowa. And this was it took him longer to go this distance than this distance because of the mud when they left then you can just see how it its weaving its way to various areas, but here in Winter Quarters where where you see this northwestern corner, there were people that were traveling down trying to get jobs. Working to be able to have funds to continue on in the jury. Journey so this is my one of my colleagues richard e bennett. Saying the bless were far enough away counsel blessed. They called it, omaha, nebraska area. So as not to provoke trouble yet close enough to permit trade and arms length. The elements of trade between missouri and the mormons must be seen on at least two levels first aggregate and corporate purchases for the Church Second individual trade. Yeah. Many teamsters hired themselves out as laborers for nearby farmers building fences etc. Some in more disparate straits traveled disguised and incognito among northern, missouri farm sites and villages to find and unemployment. So my colleague professor bennett maintains it from 46 to 50, missouri became the lifeline to the mormon exodus had it not been for this misery trade and employment most would not have had gather sufficient means to migrate the valley valley of the great salt lake. So this is i think this whole idea of being an economic salvation, so im giving you snapshots right . Im giving you western, missouri. Im giving you saint louis. Im giving you now northwestern, you know, saint joe area up here kind of a feel of whats whats happening here at the time. And i thought this was an interesting. This is the the year that Brigham Young comes into the Salt Lake Valley that Vanguard Company and 47 hosea stout who kept a meticulous journal . He said the most opposition we have in missouri, right . This is about a decade after extermination. What was and consequence of the stories of the dissenters . Otherwise in missourians are very friendly so some left the church, but couldnt leave it alone. All right. So this is reality taking snapshots now this gets a little bit more colorful and theres some language here. I kind of toned it down but so when they get into salt lake as i mentioned people are more relaxed, i think to really share how they felt and there was some there was some difficult things that happened to men women and children in missouri before they left and so what i did is i went out to the Bancroft Library they have a rich collection the great collections for immigration the western migration, so you have the the colibrary at yale. You have bancroft at uc berkeley. You have the private collection in the huntington library. And you find these accounts particularly during the California Gold rush 49 and 50 are like peak years where people are traveling through. And some people from missouri they do not want to go through Salt Lake City because they know the history right and they dont want to risk it. And so where you see here . Is we have this alet cotton who says i was told that he meaning Brigham Young said that these were people coming and skulking through the place on the way to california it would take in part drive them out of, missouri. And if he could catch them he would send them to hell across lots. There were some missourians who became alarmed and started on as soon as possible. In reality the people that went through Salt Lake City in the mid19th century state for six and a half days if you take every journal you do a little bit of Statistical Analysis analysis six and a half days. Now most of them wanted to get their supplies and go on to california, but theyre actually were a few converts that were looking for something. They felt was more valuable than gold. So as i said after arriving in Salt Lake Valley there seems to exist a certain security that some of the saints took advantage of when vocalizing their deep seated feelings concerning their poor treatment in west missouri in the 1830s. For example and 49 James Humphries of hannibal, missouri said having some fear of going through salt lake and account of the old feelings. They the mormons notice the spelling. Had against the missourians we concluded to take sublets cut off. Bancroft library or another westbound immigrant road arrived in great Salt Lake City, july 19th, 1849. I was running along the street and i spoke to an age man. Well says he were glad youre here if you did not drive us out of missouri, which was all great to me as i knew nothing of mormons or their history. So you get this is something when you see these accounts. You get the idea that something that happened back in the 30s is still festering. A decade or more later, right . I mean, this is whats cooking. So isaac, Julian Harvey said i went north of Salt Lake City is the mormons were down in the missourians generally many, missouri trains got in trouble if their stock got into the gardens of or any fields, they were fined heavily. It was charged that the mormons would turn the cattle in on purpose to make trouble. I knew many immigrants that were ruined and had to work their way to oregon or california. Now that might variable will be true because i know that not all sayings where halos personally. Okay, this is but these are some of the things that are that are going on now. This one is a little bit i debated whether or not to pull this one or not. But i thought all right. Im gonna im gonna leave it in there. So here you have the mormons this day celebrate their arrival of the first settlement of this valley three years ago by then. Remember Brigham Young and the Vanguard Company coming 47 by 1850. We are in a hearing of their cannons by way of jollification the the mormons cursed the darn ragged immigrant sobs from missouri and illinois. Remember, these are two places are cast out and ill do traveling through their country, so i simply share these accounts to share with you. The feelings are still bitter, okay. Now, let me introduce you to these frontier outfitting posts, so theyre coming from across the atlantic ocean. Theyre coming from the east coast. Theyre coming from the south and they have these different frontier outfitting posts, which here we have Winter Quarters as i told just omaha, nebraska, kaysville, iowa just right across the way you can see the years and like here they had the frontier guardian. They had another newspaper where you can mine these first person accounts. Keokuk iowa this is interesting because there was a terrible steamboat explosion. Im going to tell you about in lexington on the border of Jackson County right about 45 minutes from here. And so keuka they tried keokuk iowas like a dozen miles south of nauvoo. They tried that but they just didnt like the extra distance so they went back. To westport here in this area then the rotating mormon grove iowa city now we have the Castle Garden immigration depot and in new york city, theyre going to take trains out to iowa city. This is where the Handcart Companies come in 1856 to 1860. We have 10 hand Card Companies totaling about 3,000 latterday saints. They usually get the most news even the only about 3 of the migration because people were fascinated with and cars. And then you keep florence, nebraska, wyoming nebraskas 45 miles south. They actually this is an interesting one. They actually moved. From florence know what wyoming, nebraska because the word they use as apostate the members of the church of jesus christ already saints that had left the church. Again, apostasy is a greek word meaning mutiny from within there. Theyve left the fold one journal. I read said that there were more apostates in florence, nebraska. That was that they were thicker than the likes of egypt in the days of pharaoh. So they moved it 45 miles south so that the fresh converse coming from england werent always going to be, you know, let me tell you what its really like, right and and so it was it was a strategy. So we move into the Railroad Towns later, but i want to Say Something about the mississippi and missouri river. Im a real fan of the Arabia Steamboat Museum. How many have you been to the Arabia Steamboat Museum . Okay, if you havent been there and you love history, this is an absolute must this was the steamboat arabia. Went down in 1856 and they have 200 tons of treasure there things like pickles and shoes and rakes and things going out to market, but its something and its something to behold. I want to quote father pierre de schmidt who said steam navigation on the big muddy are missouri is one of the most Dangerous Things a man can undertake. I fear the sea, but all the storms another unpleasant things ive experienced in four different ocean voyages. Did it not inspire me with so much terror as the navigation of this somber treacherous muddy, missouri. So as a different ball game here. Now what are some of the risks disease in fact Brigham Youngson and a letter out they changed immigration in 1855 to not come up in mississippi right to go to boston, philadelphia new york and you had the the prelis island at the in new york the Castle Garden. Because they were losing too many people a lot to yellow fever and cholera. Along these things you folks are midwest, missouri folks. You understand these things but bowler boiler explosions. I want to i want to Say Something about quickly. Heres lexington. Okay. So theyre coming here. Theyre coming in to picking up the journey in the early 50s. And theyre on their way heading towards kansas city. Anyway, long story short. This captain was trying to come around the river and he just put too much steam on in fact a stave tied with a dog went 600 yards blown in the air, you know the distance of a football six football fields, and it was incredible. So this happened april 1952. And about two dozen latterday saints were killed among others, but the lexington citizens were heroic. I mean they raised money to bury the dead instead of finishing them off. Remember the extermination order still in effect and they took in some orphan children, they so and along with raising the money to bury the dead money to send them on to the Salt Lake Valley. So there was truly compassion that we shown and i see this is kind of a turning point in some ways. That later would be built upon in order to build bridges with between latter days saints and the neighbors and years to come. Heres a picture of hh gratz who was one of those citizens who helped to raise money. Abraham was moot. We have a smooth building on byu campus. He said ill never forget the kindness of the citizens of lexington and caring for the living and bearing the dead prominent citizens that all they could to comfort and help the afflicted survivors. Well, this is a whole different ballgame now, right were going from extermination to compassion. And this was this was a great thing. I the opportunity. I look a little younger here 20 years ago and here i am with my sweetheart is here today and and Mike Hutchings my good friend with the mormon district Science Foundation and others mayor tom hayes when this thing was over he said fred, i want you to come down and meet my friends. He took me down to the baptist church. And did any of you know tom hayes and mayor hayes. Yeah, he i think annie got a key to the city and and i did too. But anyway, it was it was a wonder. Whole thing of bridge building healing wounds and we had this its still there the Memorial Park and thats still there and i ended up doing a book with william hartley. I came to tell you the truth. I was supposed to teach a course a graduate course at umsl on mormon migration. It was called. Well, i need to find a story that was again generating more light than heat. Okay. They came upon the saluda story about oh my word i got to do a documentary film on this i got to do a book. This is great stuff because it was moving forward rather than talking about you know those people from the past that did these rotten things it was showing healing compassion helping this is the history. I enjoy telling when it turns when we think of the other, right . So i did this film some of you know, jack cashel he was involved with this jack is the one that did the arabia steamboat introductory film. A great guy and get this all these reenactors civil war and actors. They dont want to take a penny. They just said we we love this story. Were here uses any way you want these are these so these none of folks were latterday saints. And then we have actually in our audience today. I didnt know if shed be here this scale annie hammer hamrick. She could give you her old story. She started bringing youth groups a young women out and they started doing all these projects. And so they did far more than i ever started but look at this Lexington Library over 450 books were donated serving at the hospital with donations high schools the cemetery the civil war battlefield. I dont have time to read all this but this is good stuff that was going on trying to turn the tide and trying to to promote goodwill now before i do the epilogue, ive got to Say Something about the trains. So here you have the hannibal and saint joe 207 miles well. Excuse me. This is an interesting story my friends. So you had Brigham Young was brilliant with colonization and immigration and he had different agents and george kuchanan says, you know what lets lets do a new route. Lets go from hannibal and saint joe again 20 years after the extermination order. And you have these newspapers. Im giving you one there are scores and scores and scores and scores and they are quite different the papers that are going on and on the illinois side of the river and those coming into hannibal but you get these kind of derogatory things that are going on, but they didnt mind taking their cash. And you know, theres its just how it is, but this period during the civil war. I mean, i studied latterday saint immigration since the 90s and my favorite time period is the civil war. I mean, this is high adventure. And so many ways you can kind of see that the primary route of where theyre heading here and you get these wonderful firstperson accounts of you know, this is 64. So civil war 61 to 65. Just reminding us taking steamers some time. They would they would actually go into canada briefly and come back out and windsor and but you know, it gives you this description of whats going on at the time and the confederacy always wanted to get the general mcclellan named after a union officer. And so sometimes theyd cross the atlantic and youd have one of these southern boys with a stogie and hed say Something Like this. You better say your prayers moments because youre going down. Youre going down. We have first person accounts. Of british latterday saint conference crossing, atlantic and these kinds of comments, but they didnt want to, you know have more repercussions in the civil war, but incredible if i had 1. 5 million if jeremy could raise some funding for me or something i could do this film. So anyway, or maybe thats a joel question. Anyway, im kidding of course. But anyway, so you get this war zone and where you see i mean i have many many firstperson accounts again because people that made the journey kept a journal keep a journal friends. Keep a journal. Houses burned fences destroyed bridges guarded by union troops anyway, this is this is interesting stuff. We had to change into a train of cattle cars and the caragana was a car that hogs have been shipped in but see with so much safer to go in the cattle cars because if you were in the nicer cars with the union soldiers, thats where the guerrilla warfare is going the confederacy of shooting cannibals over their head, right . So theyre riding where the animals usually went which was actually safer even though it was stinky. So you have these youre going to see this over and over again of whats cooking as theyre traveling on the hannibal and saint saint joe railroad in these first person accounts. They said they were afraid of the good cards being burned by the confederates, right . So theyre theyre taking this route. I found this excuse me image over in the California Museum of trying to remember but is rare to be able to find a photo like this and and here we have this this idea of this hotbed gorilla warfares. Theyre traveling Andrew Jensen became the assistant Church Historian for the church of jesus christ validation said a very disagreeable ride through the state of missouri where the inhabitants at nearby where the inhabitants at nearby nearly every station did all they could to insult the the immigrants. Well, this is at the time of the civil war. So this isnt like saying that everybody is from missouri, right but can kind of read between the lines of whats happening here. They said they were waiting afraid of their good cars being burned by the confederates. We took a steamer up to missouri. It was a flat boat and we were very crowded so you get rough travel not only on the river but again on the rail. Joseph w. Young wrote every few miles the debris of a wrecked train and surmise the situation by staying. Where not that god is with his people the thought of the saints traveling over such a road to be almost unbearable. And so what another thing you should understand . Is that in the journals during this time period latterday saints felt like they were modernday israel. And Brigham Young was an american moses. So theres that thats in there thats in the journals thats in their thoughts and this idea that god will watch over us if we simply gather if we gather to zion so salt lake was considered zion. Just like for the jerusalem is zion and zionist jerusalem. We passed the soldiers camp and it was here. We ran into a place where logs been placed to disrail the cars. Youre going to see this a lot over and over again at saint joe. We have the bushwackers fired two cannibals through our train one shot went through the passenger card exactly eight inches of the peoples heads and the other through the baggage car destroying a great amount of baggage. Sounds of a cannons when we passed through missouri, the people were very bitter against the mormons instead of bridge on fire to of our progress. Well, we dont know for sure if that was the missourians or whatever but this again is the feeling thats going on. One wrote after experiencing all this stuff. We stayed in saint joe three or four days afraid to go on because of the rebel soldiers being all through the country. I can truly say i saw a little of the war between the north and the south william freshwater you also have accounts in saint joe, missouri and 63. I love this. This is you know, the gettysburg pier battle period the soldiers would get one dollar for each man or boy. They would get a pen or ribbon on if the ribbon was pinned on the man. He was counted as an as in the army. His word was out of the question. No one would believe him. He also reported that one girl was taking by the soldiers from their company during this period latterday saints feared the soldiers more than native americans. Okay as they went across the plains and the mid 19th century, so um, so as a conclusion to this part then i want to do a quick epilogue for a few minutes during the three decades which followed the extermination decree issued in 1838. Theres peers to be no evidence of missouri and forcing extermination work. So thats important. I think the other is however latter days saying immigrants did face a number of enemies are adversities in a different kind obstacles of the threat of disease boiler explosions danger resulting from military conflict. Some insults and abundance of bad, press however in the border cities of saint louis, westport and saint joe, missouri, the latterday saints were able to develop relationships gain employment and make useful traits. By the time the trance canal Continental Railroad had crossed america in the spring of 1869 the saints no longer needed to cross, missouri to get to the Salt Lake Valley right a century later an abundance of effort to build good relations is various communities commenced as latterday saints left, utah to establish families in other states including missouri hartford turned towards moving from conflict understanding so fiveminute epilogue. I know thats my fiveminute point. So were doing okay. Let me just say this. I appreciate. Various people in this community have been involved in Public Affairs. I said, you know, what whats going on now whats happened with this extermination order and ive been really interested in this one when governor christopher s bahn as part of this the spirit of the bicentennial rescinded the extermination ordering youre thinking you got to be kidding me. No, im not kidding. It was not resented until 1976. Although there wasnt anything. I mean after theyre driven out in 38 people arent you know hunting for latterday saints in the state of missouri . Okay, so it was rescinded in 1976 and good for governor bond. Another thing i learned was that the reorganized church of jesus christs father a saints now called the community of christ. They were actually in 1975 saying, you know, itd be really nice thing if you could, you know help with the resending this extermination order and then later the latterday saints played a key role in this which story im not going to tell right now. Finding an article with professor Alexander Alex spaugh on this the whole fleshed out story. Ive been in contact with people that have been in Public Affairs that are latterday saints like judy ricks whos talked about she was doing these wonderful things from 94 to 2012 and i said give me some activities. Well, she talked about being a partnership with the community of christ doing Different Things with, you know, musical groups speakers bureaus joining collisions for positive family relationships media workshops a service above and beyond awards Better Together Community Church concerts and things and i got a little of that also from don and carol deshler who have been in this area for 50 years and have done Public Affairs work and served another ecclesiastical assignments and just jointly trying to promote service and community goodness, and ive really appreciated their help. A few examples theyve mentioned from the Community Support latterday saints land purchasing right when someone said, you know, latterday saints are buying too much this or that there might be someone who steps to the plate like John Dillingham and says, hey, you know, lets lets have one of your senior Church Leaders come out and just explain what youre doing this for right . So really causing tensions to be eased or invitation is serve on board of Community Outreach networks have gone on. Or invitation extended be a member of the kansas city mayors Prayer Breakfast these Little Things out of small and simple things perceived that which is great being involved with the boy scouts of america has been a huge thing as far as trying to pass out that olive leaf. So 70s and 80s you get three sending the extermination order. We also have in the 80s latterday saint a president s ecclesiastical they call it a steak like a diocese or our latterday saint presence of the Visitor Centers working in in connection with other groups being involved trying to move from the them against us to from move from being as the dish. Theres a apart from to being a part of being a community trying to weave things together. Late in the 80s on lds presence of the Visitor Centers or directors. I should say and the Missouri Independence Mission got immersed and developing relationships with opinion leaders again move from apart from to being a part of the 90s you have this Public Affairs is joining in with Community Service cultivating relationships initiating various awards as judy talked about the mormon tabernacle choir now called the tabernacle choir at temple square. They came several times this area that really created good. Well, you know how music is the universal language and people think like, you know, these folks seem like theyre theyre decent people. And and so in the last 20 years again you get this better to get acquire good Good Journalism from the caseys star. And then the cancer i was really interested in kansas city, missouri temple because i have a daughter that lives in this area and im like what happened in the last because it was dedicated a decade ago, and its really interesting to me. You never see this where theres only one protestor. I mean think about the background one protester. Thats unusual large turnout dozens of opinion leaders coming the the apology on the extermination owner again, and the motif of the temple i think is interesting the olive leaf, right the olive leaf, so dedicated in may 6th at 2012 by then president Thomas S Monson of the church of jesus christ the latterday saints and i love when he gave the dedicatory prayer that he made the point that the church shines forth in the sunlight of good will because of the people in this community that allowed this to take place. So anyway, the sin of in gratitude is a crime lord despicable than revenge so i had to put up a few sources, but thank you for listening. To me and well turn it over to q a. Hows that sound . Okay. Thank you. Okay, so im about two minutes over. Sorry about that jeremy. Youre great. Any audience member has a question. We ask that you go to one of the microphones and if someone from our online watching online has a question they can that will be relayed to me, but i will start off so you laid out in the early 1830s the the mob manifest the grievances of locals against mormon settlers and then five years later. Theres an extermination order was this a escalating resentment over a few years in hatred or was there specific in a specific event that really triggered the this order by governor boggs. Thats thats a good question. So, i think its really a combination of of both but after a while the latterday saints, so theyre driven out of Jackson County Alexander Donna fenn. You probably know this name from history. He was a real asset for latterday saints. He wasnt a latterday saint but he was an attorney and so he was staking out lands for davies and caldwell counties one was for non. Latterday saints one was for latter days saints and theyre just i think all the way along there was a feeling like this isnt going to work because again, it was a cultural conflict where youre trying to make oil and water and so these things of latter saints had what was called what youd find in the new testament of all things common, which they called the law of consecration where theyd want to pull their Economic Resources just insular and that didnt help the economy for everybody else and he had issues of politics as i mentioned. So things are escalating and then there was whats called the battle of Crooked River that takes place in october of 38. Its a bit of a problem. You had people a few killed on each side and then you have the hans mole mask, right . I didnt mention which 17 latterday saints were killed. And so anyway, it was when they when the latter days saints i think decided to kind of step it up as far as a defense. This is when things really escalated and and to you know, governor boggs, i think just wanted to remove the problem again. I dont think he was going out trying to see how many mormons he could kill but rather just kind of it just wasnt working. I mean, sometimes theres as we want them to work, but sometimes we know it isnt going to work. Right and so we had this conflict. So, whats the next question . Thanks. Yeah, we have some coming in one was a comment. Someone mentioned that they they are they are from keokuk my parenting that right. He okay you their family had escaped escape Southern State slavery to settle there another question had to do with you mentioned sympathizers st. Louis newspapers that sympathize with with the mormons were there. Were there any sympathetic parties or vocal sympathetic parties on the western side of the state or were things just so bad that theyre really there really were no. No at least vocal sympathizers on this part of the state in Jackson County and then theyre in the nearby counties. Im thinking of the journal of Albert Rockwood who wrote in 1838 speaking of western, missouri. But it seemed like the devil was in every man in missouri. Nice talking about western now, of course a decade later hosea stout as i read is saying hey, it was the dissenters caused his problems and you know, these folks were friendly so i think theyre definitely were simplifiesers on the west side, but it it took a few years to calm down the tension. Of what was happening at the time, but you know when im giving you a general just to the public here. Were getting a general sketch of things, right . Theres always somebody that is i mean donna Finn Alexander doniphan just reviewing. This is a important point. I think so joseph smith spent some time at liberty jail. Not far from here. And he was sent to be shot. Um at the end of october of 1838 Alexander Donovan stood up to his Commanding Officer and said if you carry this out, i will hold your responsible before an earthly tribunal so help me god. So donovan to me is like one doniphan is worth a thousand others, but heres an example of someone that had incredible integrity and you know, and as i said, theyre not all saints were halos, theres and theres two sides of the issue here the latterday saints that a number of things they shouldnt have done that just kind of poked at the local citizen. So i hope that that comes across that it wasnt just one sided or and its a great segue to another question. We had just come in if you had been Church Leader during that that period that time of conflict, what you have done . Differently well, its really interesting that as i reflected on this. I thought of so latterday saints they have they believe in the bible. And they also believe in different books of scripture. So they believe that god was speaking in the at this time period and its interesting to me. Then in what of what they what would be referred to by latter days saints as a revelation . That that the lord would say this now think about what weve been talking about in the 30s. Let all my people who dwell in the regions round about be very faithful and prayerful and humble before me and reveal not the things which i revealed unto them until it is wisdom in me that they should be revealed talk not of judgments. Neither boast a faith and of mighty works, but carefully gathered together as much in one region as can be consistently with the feelings of the people in other words. Dont gather in haste. And behold so the idea of latterday saints and i think thought that if they did this it says i will give unto you favor and grace in their eyes that you may rest and peace and safety. I think if that counsel would have been followed to be thinking more about the other. To be a gathering, you know, not in haste. And doing some of these things just and i think thats what we see the last 50 years. Its that were a community. We work together. Its its not them and us its its looking for the Common Ground instead of the battleground. Its its i love the latin maxim in the essentials let there be unity nonessentials liberty, but in all Things Charity and i think that attitude you see later with maturity. And and so yeah, i i always think of this essentially thats that question and was reading it this morning. A another online viewer. I wanted clarification were there any saints killed during the extermination order . Were there documented killings that took place after that order was so the extermination order october 27th. 1838. So you have the hansville massacre, but that isnt really thats going on outside of this. I think getting circulated everywhere. I think really really the expert on this is alexander l. Bob professor byu, and he would probably you know as far as documenting two deaths there were there were some other things atrocities went on there were cases of property and all that, but were not talking about 2,200, you know two score but really as far as death and i think that again shows that the idea was lets remove the problem but not looking for an opportunity to shoot a dozen bullets through somebody. It was just a culture conflict. As the saints left Jackson County in fled inflated that east was there. What is my understanding there were some violence at the time as they were as they were leaving, but i assumed as they got further east that there was less instances of that. Yeah, and and west i mean theyre getting out of this state is right bottom line. Theyre just getting beyond the borders of this modern day mess of the tamia between the and the, missouri river. Well, i have a one final question. Whats your Current Research project or do you have a book coming out or yeah, Something Like to share with us. Yeah, i have over this next year. Theyre already at press but i have a book on latterday saints story in south africa. I have another book on the latterday saying image in the british. Mine thats coming out and i just finished one thats being published by the university of nevada. Press its called bright lights and the desert the latterday saints of las vegas showing how a very small population of latterday saints have helped to keep pandora in the box or the strip influence on the strip through a lot of different ways. So and then im doing a massive 10year project called saint spice state. I did saint spicy for a quarter of a century. Im doing saints by state. And so i know for example in the state of missouri, theres 931 published sources on latterday saints in missouri. So im going state by state doing published and published. Im doing documentary. Im doing zoom interviews interviewing people doing little short vignettes and documentary filming im doing Statistical Analysis maps chronologies. I mean, im so excited about it that eating and sleeping have become a burden. Well, i want to thank you again. It is great to dr. Woods. Have you here in person . Weve all been used to zoom and online programs. So i you know, theres Something Different about having these being able to have these in person again, i want to thank our audience both here and online and i hope to have you back. Thank you. Well, welcome to econ 107b and were going to continue our discussion today by reviewing the works of Friedrich Hayek John Maynard Keynes and Milton Friedman whom i consider to be the three most influential economists of the 20th century and of the three, i really consider hayek to be the most influential. He addressed what i call the Knowledge Problem and this seems to me to be perhaps the most important contribution to economics since the time of adam smith. And thiss