That could have as much effect as mr. Cummings just said on future generations. Yet how little attention it gets when we actually do our job. Especially on a subject like there. I think it is appropriate at times that we all rightfully argue about how big or small the federal government should be. But i think we all share a common belief that whatever side the government should be, the dollars that we spend, we need to make sure are spent wisely. And one of the things i want to again commend you and the Ranking Member on, as a former governor, often the difference between a governor and legislator was a legislator thought the job was over once the bill was passed when in actual ality, it is the implementation is where the rubber hits the road. And hearing what both of you have said and i know my friend senator portman shares this as well, we will keep common cause to make sure that implementation takes place in a timely, effective and efficient manner. As we went into some of the last hours of trying to get there bill signed off on and this is as much the administration itself and certain particular agencies and resisted the time line that we are putting forward. Again, i think it was a tribute to you and Ranking Member cummings and those of us in the senate as well to make sure that we keep this administration and future administrations feet to the fire. The data act, i will echo what you said, and try do it fairly quickly, obviously has tremendous promise to hold government accountable. And use information to make more informed budget decisions because for the foreseeable future we will be tight in fiscal times and as well look at how we reform part of the structures of the federal government. As has been said already, the most critical component is the development of consist governmentwide Financial Data standards. As we dug into this, almost remarkable thing we found early on, department of defense alone as 200 different Financial Reporting systems just within that one department. As someone who spent longer in the private sector than the public sector, that is just totally unacceptable. A subject of much debate is how we define program across the government. You have indicated and i know you will hear later a recent review of the first attempt to create an accurate inventory of all federal programs. Inventory required by earlier legislation that we all worked on, gipra, again, a piece of legislation this most americans have never heard of but a good step along this direction. The first attend was not all that promising. Specifically gl found that agencies will allow to select from one of several approaches when defining programs which led to inconsistent categorization. Also finding a lack of agencies with different definitions fror grams with similar focus. Again, that would never stand into a fortune 100 company into the 21st century. I hope we can understand this attempt to find program and adapt an approach with data that is more useful to policy makers and support greater transparency. One of the things as well is to make shower that we have the new financial stand artsds. Standards across government. I know universities in each of our respective states file similar financial reports. Multiple times to multiple agencies. If all this reporting redundancy were stream lined, we could direct more resources to the actual programs rather than to the administrative overhead. I hope the administration comes back with recommendation and streamline and improve the reporting process for those who receive federal funds. I would like to mention the need to make the website more user friendly. Now we have moved this over and add lot of discussions in the vel. Data act. About where this had to reside. We came to the conclusion that this aught to be at the department of treasury. Weve got make sure this implements the goals that all of us laid out in the data. Make this information more user friendly to the public. One of the analogies atried to use and explain this to my press corps was you know, you ought to google your tax dollar all the way down to the program attic level. Weve got stay on this. I want to add one lost comment adds well. As chairman cummings mentioned, weve got make sure that agencies have the resources to actually implement. Sometimes again, youve got to inve invest to save money in the long run. And to do the reviews, set up systems in a way that makes sense will save us resources in the long run and make our jobs as policy makers and making budget decisions i think more accurate and appropriate. One last final comment before turning it over to senator portman, we continue to make small progress under this area. I want to again thank you and my friend jerry connolly. All of us worked together in a piece of legislation in this area of oversight that president signed into law just last week. The government reports that the elimination act. Its amazing, this is more tangible. It identified and eliminated 50 reports that Government Agencies produce. That are never looked at, never reviewed. We should have been able do five to ten times that amount. We will work with this committee to keep plugging away on that but we need to make sure in every avenue we show we spending the taxpayer dollar wisely. This something that crosses party lines, ecological lines. I want to thank you and the Ranking Member for working with senator portman and i to get this very important piece of legislation through. Looking forward to working with you on implementing you. Thank you, senator portman. Thank you. I started off here in my congressional career. I think i was the most Senior Member in the minority. In fact, i was at the kiddy table down here. This is a Great Committee. And one of the reasons it is a Great Committee is the potential to help us to be able to eye lu people who represent tax payers to understand government better. And this legislation is a classic example of it. You both talked about it. Senator warner talked about it. But tracking where those hardearned dollars go and how they are being spent, there is a lot of work to be done and we will talk about that for a second this morning. I hope you will continue to be very involved in this. This is something you add passion for or help to launch. You and Ranking Member cummings had a kumbaya moment this morning. It is good government. Its good stuff. It does give americans an unprecedented view into the government if we implement it properly. A rt of it comes from something technical, which is transforming the spending data now owned by the government into something that is accessible. That is not easy to do. I think thats why the implementation is so important. Itll result in not just more Accountable Government and not just better managed government but also a lighter touch. More efficient in lighter government. The implementation requires some sustained focus by the executive branch. I know you will have testimony later about how things are going. The first step, and im not going repeat what senator warner said, which is about reporting processes, making the website more user friendly, and more need for investment you front but there are things we need to focus on this morning with our witnesses. And i look forward to getting a report as to how they answered all these questions. We know that some of the benefits generated by uniform comparable data ,uu detailed Financial Information is only aspirational until we see this implemented in the proper way. The standardization we will are are told will never be completed within a year of the enactment. It became law on may 9, 2014, so that means you are half way through. How is it going . I didnt think it was going well at first, to be honest with you. All four of us talked about it. I think it is going better now. Shortly after president obama signed into law, o b issued a statement saying the requirement will be based on current funding and time frames that permit. Not very encouraging. And i dont think that sent the right message at all. We did have shawn donovan, Homeland Security government affairs, and we asked him about this during his hearing. The response we got back is he indeed was going to prior ties this and i think we have seen improvement. I think the treasury had been holding meetinges with federal and nonfederal stake holders. The meetings have generated a lot of information that i know format the data standards. And also, is on pace to meet the deadline which would be may of next year. For publication of data standards. If that deadline slips it is a real problem. I think all bets are off to when we fully real lies the promise of the data act. I hope those questions will be answered today as to whether they are on track. Again, its not easy. It requires a lot of focus. As chairman knows, when i had the opportunity to implement, which is far from perfect, we will talk that in a second, it took a sustained effort and concentrated effort. Otherwise it just wont happen. Lets not use this for the hard work to craft standard. And also there are comprehensives. On that front, lessen koorageing in may o aep b published controller alert that informed federal state quarters with data standards and information posted to usa spending. Gov. Thats not quite right. The law requires that common Data Elements for information required to be reported by federal agencies and entities receiving federal funds. The data act requires standards not only for the Data Elements that are published on usa spending. Gov but for all data and all recipients must include in the required reports to ablg agencies. So it is broader than that. The usaspending. Gov data standards, we develop these comprehensive data standards and infrastructure that can handle the spending information. And thats required by the act that we put forward. In addition, it should be flexible. We can talk more about that later. When got to get on to the witnesses. But thats another part that aught to be asked about today. And of course data standards, one of the steps to make sure that they ensure that the agency use these standards to consistently and timely report spending data and the treasury o b use that information to publish information on spending. Gov. We know that neither of these processies happen automatically. Thanks to the work by gao, we know that agencies failed to report 619 billion in federal spending to usaspending. Gov during 2012. Most recent year we had information. Finding major deficiencies in the quality of the agencies did report. So data act, one of the causes, again i was able to implement at o aep b, did not establish government wide data standard. Fully and effective data act will address that issue. Understand goa is working with inspectors general to develop some of the standards so that there is auto oversight protocols to monitor compliance with the data acted. That might be something that comes up today as well. Finally i would just want it say that this is a great example of what we can do when we put our minds to something that helps our tax payers who we represent. It was both branches so bicamral. Here on the hill and with the executive branch. Bipartisan. I would say even nop partisan. And a very difficult within lets face it. It was decided, here so problem, lets attack it p. And there is murky information. Members of congress from both parties engage each other. Engage the executive branch. We hammered out the details with a solution. By the way, as objections emerged, we Work Together to try to address them without waivering in addressing the problem. This may not apply to every issue but there is certainly a lot where we have there Common Objective and then it is just a question of putting together the right legislation to address and hopefully we can use this as a model for doing other things. We want to thank senator warner and senators coburn and chairman, Ranking Member, wouldnt have happened without all of your involvement. I will continue to work with you on insuring that it is implemented properly. I want to thank both of you for coming to this side but more importantly for being an active part of making this happen. This wopt have happened in a divided capital if it wasnt for the fact that it crossed party lines. So its been extremely helpful. Ive lost senator connolly. But im sure you will tell him that i was actually given this at the beginning of my tenure and i chose to never use it because i felt ways too loud on the hammer with the small one. I imagine there are witnesses for that. I thank you both. I would only close by saying in the next congress i hope we can not only continue on the data act but recognize this Committee Jurisdiction and your counterpart on the senate side we oversee the National Archives and the quality of the data that goes in there, sadly, is going to for a long time become the mostly paper or digital ekwif leapt to paper, lots of pdfs, lots of things that cost a large amount of money to convert and even then are never as good as if they were put in in a machine searchable format. So i believe that financial is important for current, but i think we also have to invest in leaving a legacy of deep information that the future generation kes easily search. So hopefully we will use this as a base and continue across the spectrum. I thank you. We will take a very short recess. Committee will come back to order. We now welcome our second panel. Honorable gene dudara, controller general of the united states. We welcome you back. Honorable david matter from the office of federal white House Management in the White House Office of management and budget. And mr. David leebrick is federal assistant secretary of the u. S. Department of treasury which has been so much talked about as the responsibility, primary responsibility party, for the data act. Pursuant to the committees rules would you please rise to take the oath. Ef are and raise your right happened. Just follow gene. He knowes this one. Do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth . Thank you very much. Please be seated. Let the record reflect all wpss answered in the affirmative. The light will indicate your five minutes. Please try to stay as close as can you to it. Your entire Opening Statements will be placed in the record along with any other extraneous material you may choose to provide. Mr. Dudara . Good morning, mr. Chairman. Ranking member cummings. Members of the committee. Very pleased to be here today. I would like it start by commending you mr. Chairman, mr. Cummings, aej others. Mr. Connolly, the whole committee. For your persistence to bring the data act to fruition. And for holding this important hearing on early implementation phases. As ive testified before this committee before, i think effective implementation of the data act can have profound implications for increasing the transparency of Government Spending for the public. To facilitate better management by Agency Managers by giving them more accurate and timely information to manage by and thereby promoting efficiency and effective so government and also help facilitate efforts to reduce and hopefully eliminate fraud, waste and abuse in federal government and identify overlapping duplicative programs that can be identified and remedies. Now effective implementation, m my opinion and experience, will not happen without strong leadership by o b treasury and attention by the agencies. And i think our recent report on usa spending. Gov illustrates the challenge here. Five years after implementation, and 2012 data on usa spending. Gov we took a look to see about the completeness and accuracy of the information. We found 324 programs were not recorded in the data base. Senator portman mentioned the number omitted which is 619 billion of spending was not included. We also checked the 201 Data Elements that were supposed to be included in the data act and traced them back to their Agency Record records. And only found 2 tracked back for Data Elements. So we really have do better with the data act implementation. And for Data Elements. So we really have do better with the data act implementation. O b agreed to treasury implements. Im very please bed that. But i would say that sustained congressional oversight is also very warranted in this area. For our part at gao, im giving this high priority. Our work, legislation calls for a first report to be in 2017. But you didnt look for a report from us next year. Were going to track every stage of the implementation over the period of time. Not just look at after the fact reports by the ig sts. I want to make sure that the data standard are complete and consistent. Agencies are poised. Implemented. Successfully. Consultation worked successfully and were off to a good start implementing this. Also, and i plan to continue to give a high priority to making sure that we have complete and accurate reports on the governments financial condition. In my Statement Today ive included the results of our last audit of the governments Financial Statements in which we are unable to render an opinion because of serious control weaknesses. Mentioned three major impedements. And problems with the Treasury Department eliminating intergovernmental transactions and compiling of statements. And it includes our opinion on the governments financial condition. Which i believe continues to be on a longterm unsustainable fiscal path. Id be happy to answer questions about the data act implementation and our work on the Financial Statements at the appropriate time, mr. Chairman. Thank you again for inviting us to participate in this hearing. Thank you. Mr. Mader . Thank you members of the committee for the opportunity to testify on the administrations process in implementing the data act as we noted was sign need law may 9 of this year. This is my first opportunity to appear before the full committee since being confirmed as o b controller on july 17 of this year. While i appear here today in my official capacity in the o b official responsible from colleagues and treasury, im also here as taxpayer and ive been very interested in how government spends our tax dollars every year. Since the data acts enactment several months ago we clarted a very aggressive path towards implementation. Building off past experience and successes to transform the way the government does business, a onestop shop for the display of all data presents the opportunity not only to have an open public facing dialogue on how federal dollars are spent but also serves as a tool for bet are oversight, Management Decision Making and innovation both inside and outside a government. Transparency is not the end goal. But rather the means to the end. What we all seek as a better government that works for all of us. The data act envisions a new and enhanced usa spending. Gov website that will be the thor tative sourts and how those dollars are ultimately disseminated. It will take several years and Additional Resources as envisioned by the act. Since the data acts passage in may, o b treasury and the entire community have come together design what is a government wide effort. Over the past few months, we have executed several key activities. First, we have established a government wide governance structure to guide the effort and assign responsible for various action items and tasks. This inclouds a an executive Steering Committee as well as Interagency Advisory Committee and designation in each department and agency of senior accountable officiales who will be responsible for the implementation of their act within their respective organization. This concept worked well for the recovery act implementation and we want to build on past experiences and successes. No time and no need to reinvent the wheel. Second, we have developed an evolving plan that assigns responsibility and accountability and establishes action items and time lines that address each of the major deliverables of the act. Attached to my written testimony there is a very concise graphic that depikds the governance structure, assignment of roles and sponltd and structure for the implementation and continuous engagement of stake holders inside and outside of government. As we move forward in the first initial months of implementation we have a clear path forward, accountable executives assigned and with the congresss support appropriate funding in our mutual interest in improving spending transparency and improving how we manage the governments resources and how the public is aware of those decisions. We will all be successful. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I look forward to your questions. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak before you. I know i have five minutes and i can talk a long time about the data act. Earlier each left a minute so you can have up to seven, no problem. Thank you. What i thought i would do is i would spend a few seconds talking about the importance of data. How we have approached this initiative and finally what treasury is doing with respect to implementation. There is enormous power in data and open data allows us to make better decisions and allows us to run government in a more effective fashion. It leads to more informed citizenry and better innovation. And leads to better government. We have seen the power of data. As mentioned to senator in his remarks. The strategic cfo function owns the data and links that data to everyday operating activity. One of the reasons why we have been fairly successful in our efforts to reach out to community is that community understands the data app will significant there improve their ability to work as cfo. While we are talking about a fairly innovative approach as we go about this proj aengt thats one of the things we need to talk about, how we are implementing, the underlining principle is a need to do these things. There was discussion about multiple systems and the real difficulties we have is there are too many systems and it is very difficult to find that data and use it. And so we spend too much time on data calls. We spend too much time trying to find information and make sure it reconciles and is useful and enormous potential to get that issue within government. We also know that better data leads it better decision and the cfo function can have a much more strategic role within the government. When you look at examples that the gps used an a dayry basis or the weather service, those are open data the government provides to private sector and uses that information to improve lives of americans in a number of bays. When we lock at our information that we have, i would say we are similarly trying to look at how we can use Financial Data and allow tlhem to understand goost better. We add number of principles that we liked at. The data act clearly puts forward treasury and o b fwheerkd together provide that leadership. Where dave and i are accountable for this. And we know that. There needs to be a vision and direction clarity of purpose. Mile stones and roles and responsibilities have been identified. Thats why i very rarely as this chart very far away fwr me which says this is a what the structure will be with respect to implementation and how we implement the act with respect to roles and responsibilities. We also need to make sure we do consultation and collaboration. Some underlying principles are building on the existing within government. We have also identified this effort as data centric. And therefore, not initiative which will be building large new systems, i think some of the things that we have learned in treasury overtime is when we put these standard in place, it often times is very difficult to make the changes to the underlying systems and expensive to make those changes. So when this particular case we have talked about a data centric approach. Thats the ability to access data in the agencies, not changing underlying systems but tagging date yaen a mapping data so we can extract it in a variety systems and use it more effectively. In the past, information comes to treasury aenlt age and the agencies dont own it. And the agencies dont own it. Ge and ths dont own it. We established a Program Management office headed by a Senior Executive and that Program Management office is helping drive the vision as well as making sure a treasury is fulfilling its responsibilities under the act. Treasury has responsibilities under the legislation to do a blueprint and roadmap and that is to look through where data exists across agencies in the systems and saying how can we tag that data across those different systems. We have to do Data Exchange standards and that is what format is the data used so it is machine useable outside of the treasury. We also have the responsibility for doing Data Analytics of building Data Analytics function. We are also keenly involved in outreach and making sure we are collaborating and not reaching out to industry and government to make sure we are understand wlag the best practices are in advocacy groups so we are very much trying to make sure this is implement fled a very smart and effective way. That concludes actually, i think ive gotten pretty close, my remarks. Once again, we do view it as an opportunity. It is something i know when we look at it within treasury, we know it can have an opportunity to make a difference in government. And so we talk about better data, better decision webs better government. And the act i think will be a very helpful one in advancing those objectives. Thank you. Thank you. Im going to not throw a curve but i will talk about something that is not explicit in the act thats extremely important. You of course know about the board and what they do but maybe we can have open dialogue about the recovery act. Years ago, almost every member of this committee was encouraged and went over and they saw during the spending of that recovery act, areas of waste or fraud that previously were not found in realtime. Good example would be a number of criminal individuals who pretended to be doctors from the midwest. Set up a facility in california. In a matter of minutes, on what was in fact a pilot. They were and they had jurisdiction only because after few dollars spent in that area. They were able to determine this is an anomaly. They were able to take open source material and look at google earth and the building that made no sense at all. Many of you are familiar with it. Made no sense at all. And to say wait a second here, theres something wrong here. Then used hightech instrument called telephone and they called the doctors offices. And were immediately told of course doctors are not practicing in california. The kansasians and missourians and so on. That was improving our ability to go after waste, fraud and abuse. It is not complicit but it is an area of concern both that the gao have access to that capability. All of the inspector generals have access to that capability. Particularly because ai gs, as you all know, generally see a stove pipe of that area of jurisdiction while the data base that you will be producing would allow with the right safe guards them to look across plat forms to be able to find out for example what an individual had been debarred somewhere else et cetera. What will you be doing to preserve and hopefully keep operational either the board or next generation equivalent. Mr. Mader . Mr. Chairman, i was nodding my head because in a short time ways in government had the opportunity to spend time with the team over there and we should mention, earls pride and joy was exactly that example. It was so much faster than the normal 90 days after we get defrauded we o would find out where they used to be before they would leave. And my private life, the last 10, 11 years, ive done a lot of work of how do you unleash the power of these silo data bases. And i really want to defer to my colleague. But for a number of years there is an operation called do not pay business sent per. Weve seen, even though it is only developing the last several years, some real benefits across government in identifying those kinds situations that you have commented on. I think that with the data act and the ability to break down these silos, and to make this data available, not just to the government but government oversight organizations, we should see more and more of the examples that you articulated because it is not about the technology is important but its about the data. And we have this data thats been locked in the silos and treasuries done some very significant things in a short matter of two years. In sort of opening up our eyes for the entire government saying look if i can start running payments past data bases that i didnt necessarily have access to, i can do exactly what you said mr. Chairman. I can start stopping payments before they are made. I think that we all know that pay and chase is not the few tour. But this will allow us to stop it before it goes out the door. Thank you. Not only i would like you to comment on that but i hope you could include what your plans are to make sure in the president s budget that there is sufficient funds for that portion of the operation, please. Youll be pleased to know we will work closely with the recovery board on this issue. In fact we hired several of their personnel who ran the rock is how a senior person in our do not pay and so weve been trying to leverage that expertise and knowledge. As dave mentioned, we have a number of data bases we are matching right now as well. We are really trying to leverage what was learned at the recovery board and implementing that and putting that in the do not pay effort. As we are going along. Right now, i think one of the big things we will have is how do we build that analytical function. One of the things weve been doing is we have a lot of information on payments. And so what we are doing for the first time is looking at payment history files and saying, look, if there is payments made to the same address from different agencies, if payments are made to foreign countries, if theres unusual things that are occurring in the payment, how do we actually cue that information up and refer to the ig or investigate further about whether or not those are proper payments. And over the coming thats one of the real priorities we have within the bureau if the coming year to build that functionality and make it more systematic. And we are in the process of bringing more Searchable Data bases in like the def master file. We have access to the public master file. We would like to have access to the public master file that is more expansive. We have the exclusive party list. Cavers which are debtors, making sure we are not paying prisoners. That functionality is coming soon. So exactly what you point out, making sure that government is not make payments that it shouldnt be making payments to. Just a quick one and ill give extra time to Ranking Member. Is there a fast track anticipated so that in addition to stopping the paumt thpayment that you have a very accurate link to see that there is a criminal investigation when appropriate. Im not sure how much linkage we have on criminal investigations right now. If there is an ex cluted parties list, it would show up in that data base as going through. With respengt to prisoners, sometimes thats a problem. We do have access can you only lock them up so many toims times. Right. We are putting that data in place as something we can get to. Thank you. I think the thing that you said that could concern all of us, is the issue of whether information fwoi going into the system is complete. Because without good information, we may as well go home. So do you think that the first of all, it is the agencys responsibility to get the information in. Do you think there is a enough aft of a hammer, enough of the tools to push the agencies to get the information that we need . Because you know, a lot of times i look at government and i get frustrated because when the rubber meets the road, everything is fine. And then when it comes time rubber to meet the road, there is no road. We saw that in katrina. That could go on and on. Im trying to figure out, i dont want us to sit here thinking we are doing something that were not. And certainly without information, without accurate and complete information, im trying to figure out you know, what is the point . Please . Yeah. Thats exactly right. I mean, i have been concerned. Weve issued two reports since usa spending. Gov was put into place and practiced on report awni g rort on expenditures. We found accuracyg rort on expenditures. We found accurag rort on expenditures. We found accura rort on expenditures. We found accuracy problems as well. rort on expenditures. We found accuracy problems as wel reportrort on expenditures. We found accuracy problems as well. Report on expenditures. We found accuracy problems as well. Right now there are no safrpncts or anything there. But it is something i will pay allot of attention to and the gao will. Because to get the full benefits of this you have to make it transparent but it has to be right. The data has to be accurate and complete. And without that, you really are limited in your ability to use this powerful tool that were providing to people. Do you you lining what you see are ward to o aep b and treasury and their efforts to implement . I think they are off to a good start in terms of getting organized. Getting the government structure in place. With outreach and Stakeholder Involvement which we believe is important. And i think the pilots important to reduce recipient burden in reporting and consolidate some of the requirements. Thats very good start. So i think they are off to a good start. But you know, the experience that weve seen in the gao is the Agency Implementation part of this is where the weak link is where it breaks down. You said in your written testimony, the oversight and detecting and preventing thought, is that right . Yes. One challenge agency face is the lack of transparency between contractors and subsidiaries. Agency is currentry track contractors through a unique identifying number called dunns number. This number is assigned through an exclusive contract with a company done on brad street. Is that correct . Correct. Many have multiple subsidiaries with different dunns numberes. So a company that commits fraud can sometimes get around past performance reviews that should disqualify it from doing business with the government. It appears that one contract government uses does just that. Top use in official in a massive 1 billion scheme to defraud the government in company contracts to conduct background checks. Yet despite these grave allegations, allegations, the department of Homeland Security awarded uses of new contract this summer. Does this raise any concerns for you . We issued a report on the governments universities dunns numbers raising concerns about the government being so dependent on a sole proprietary set of information and if costs were going up because of that, and limitations put on the government by contractors. We encouraged gsa to take another look at this issue. Now they have and they put in place a replacement system off of the system in place at the department of defense called the cage system and it will set up a governmentowned identifier. But to your point, itll also provide linkages to the next tier of a company and top tier of the company if they are affiliated company. Is that in effect now . I believe, yes. It is transitioned over time. In october 20th, gao uplehela bid protest. In its decision, gao concluded that vhs, and i quote, failed to obtain and consider the specific allegations of fraud alleged by the department of justice. Gao also found that dhs and i quote, failed to consider the close relationship between the awardy and its parent company. Now, the system that you just talked about, this new system, would it detect that . Its supposed to, going forward, right. Can you get me Additional Information on that . I would like to have that. Sure. One thing, the dunns, uses subsidiary bidding at a different dunns number and subsidiary accused of fraud against the u. S. Taxpayers. Do you believe it is possible to link the dunns numbers of sub sub sid area resis 123w4r0i6r7b8g9sds sresis is the effort that the government puts in place ultimately where wl it uses that system or wlo another system should do what you are talking about and on a consistent basis. But again, what we have learned from experience is the same thing. It should be checked before making awards. You need both. You need the capability and management to discipline properly. Thank you. Does everyone on the panel agree we should consider ways to ensure that government has uk access to the data it needs to identify links between companies and their subsidiaries . Mr. Mader . Absolutely. I actually agree with what was said. It not a technical issue. It goes back to the fundamentals of the data act. How do we define an identifier. Both the parent as well as children. Yes we can deal with that during implementation as well. I agree. Thank you very much. Because youre answering the rank members question, i want to expand it just a small amount. One of the complaints that dod contractors have had for years is they can be locked out of new contract because of a merger or defestature, because it is a very cumbersome question. So how do we stop fraud like the complaint that had, but also, how would we streamline that like often happens, a unit is spun off or sold to another account and literally dod finds themselves unable to issue a new contract until somehow they can rec on sail the unique identity of something thats become no longer part after parent. So i think that mr. Cummingss point is extremely good that its the combination if you will a dunns which is quickly a sign versus cage system which is can be very cumbersome. Like when lock heeds, very large companies, sometimes sell a unit to each other and find themselves in a real conundrum. If you would answer it fully, i think it would help us understand the data act. We will definitely do that. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Longford. Let me join others in the accolades for getting the clans to serve with this chairman. Mr. Comptroller, i want to make comments on comments that have you in your written statements. In your written statements as well as oral statements as well. The data act was enacted to help address these challenges. Among others things, the establishment of data standards by may 2015. How is it going on that . Do we have a Firm Deadline on that to have the data standard in place . Whats the Progress Report . I think that the treasury, o b, are off to a good start. The task force is set up by hhs to look at the award data and dod to look at Contract Data and come up with common Data Elements. So they are laying the initial framework. They have a long way to go before they are going to have the standards in place. We will be evaluating. We are tracking it very closely. But im encouraged that they are getting organized across the government and they used things that are already in plis. Which will help implement. Cop gresman thats our goal. When we looked at some of the aggressive dates, we put in place not just the governance and planning process but we put together the working team between hhs and and dod to start working on what we believe is critical so what are major threats to not achieving that goal. Is it hardware software, training, whats the major threat to not achieving that goal. For this particular goal we have the right resources and its you know, just keeping the focus and you know folks that we have identified from both of those departments are advocates of what we are trying to accomplish. So help me understand here. It is management, getting everybody flying in the same formation. Have you the software, hardware, plan in place. Just a matter of getting every agency to implement it . I think what we are talking about is that what is coming up with uniform across government. We are not in the technology and moving data around. We are just getting a clear definition of a core group of terms so that whether you are dealing with an acquisition or grant, place of business means the same. Regardless of government contract or grant itto a university. It needs to be done over the next several months. While were on that conversation, lets talk about the definition of the word program. Which has been a much discussed definition of what does that mean. I know there are reports on that and o b said let thee is not agencies determine oagencies determine on that. How is that coming along . Im trying to get the word program defined. The statutory definition of Program Accountability and back if the budget and we are using that as framework and bedrock and looking at, here is what the statute says. Now the trick is going to be how do we ensure that it is interpret raeted correctly. And consistently across the brej of the government. So that should be across the agency so they have a common understanding of the word. I think itll be easy to convey the definition. The challenge is in actual implementation over time. I understand. That become the question. Is this a may 15 or a couple years from now about before everyone falls into line with a clear understanding and implementation of that. I think it is very a concept that not only the Program Activity but a lot of other definitions, it is a matter of educating people. Recognizing that in may were not actually going to start moving data around but we need the foundation of an understanding across government and across the different communities that this word means the same regardless of whether youre in dod or dhs or hhs so we have that consistency. It is about education, sir. Okay, good. Let me ask one more brief condition. Mr. Chairman, can i have one more minute to ask a question . Thank you for your generosity on that. Have you a statement in your written statement that says while let me just read. June 2014 while agencies reported contract information as required, many programs grants and loans were not propertied. What did you find from that . We find there were 324 programs not reported, totaling about 619 billion. Many programs at the v. A. Have not yet. So we will continuing to follow up on that. Obviously and many agencies, there are more grants than contracts. Going out now. Thats important we get the grant loan part of this as well. The data act is making that same request to be able to coincide with that. Is that progress ongoing that you think thats going to also make deadlines and targets at this point to get grant loan information as well as contract information . Yeah. You have many more agencies involved as you point out in a grant area so that you need to bring them into line in terms of compliance. So theres more people to monitor. Hhs is a big player. But many agency dose that and in the contract area it is largely a few agencies that let most of the contracts. So it is greater challenge for o b treasury to exercise oversight over the agencies and hopefully the ig reviews will demonstrate that as well. So im hopeful it will be better progress but it has to be priority for the agency possess. Hopefully the administration will make it one. One of the reasons i want to be so active in this is that the initial implementation of the legislation, we have talked about the may dates but there are dates for 17 and 18 for agencies to implement these things, initial implementation is spanning two administrations so it needs to be continuity among the administrations to make sure that this operates effectively and thats one of the things gao can do is help urge the administration to maintain continuity. Yeah. Mr. Chairman, thank you for your indulgence. Youre most welcome. Ms. Warden . I understand, but i will have to use my own time. Mine is the only jurisdiction to come before this committee. Mr. Chairman, i cannot thank you enough for the way this which you have upheld the principle of local government. And that is something to say when you consider this committee. This is a contentious committee with differents on national issues. This chairman never let those differences never required or felt bad that i should change my view on those national issues