Transcripts For CSPAN3 Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20140603

And likely to commit it again. Accommodations under title ix are available regardless of whether you decide to go through the adjudication proceeding. Youre saying theyre not applied fairly even though they should be getting the same . Yes, what im saying is basically, if one student files a title 9 complaint in their investigation, their individual investigation, ocr is going in and interviewing other students who were sexually assaulted on that campus, and went through those same proceedings. And faced the same barriers and faced the same harassment from administrators. I see what youre saying. Now i understand. Those students, who have reported in this case. I see what youre saying. I understood the point you were making. I think the guidance is fairly clear that thats not what you just described is out of compliance. And so im not im not to judge another institution sitting here, but certainly, i feel like were very clear that if a student informs an appropriate person whos responsible at our institution, theyre entitled to some remedy, both in the interim and once all decisions have been had, when theres a formal process or not. So tufts was found out of compliance, so i want to be clear that thats a noncompliant issue more than anything. I think its clear they should have given you some interim relief. Yes, when ocr comes in, and ocr a voluntary resolution agreement there are remedies that come up that the student may not have filed but going through the judicial process will be entitled to. A couple things i think we need to talk about, one is resources we need to discuss with you. The other is confidentiality. This is not for our guest from the department of justice, she cannot comment on hypotheticals. I want to give debra and katie a hypothetical, and i would like kat to weighin and dana and john if you would like. The ra in a dorm gets an email from someone she doesnt recognize the email address. But attached to the email is a video, and the video shows someone on in her dorm passed out, being sexually assaulted by two or three young men. She recognizes the person in the video. She goes to the person in the video, and the person in the video, the victim, the survivor says, i dont want you to do anything. Its none of your business, i dont want to talk about it. You should delete the video and forget you ever saw it. Now, ive read the q a on confidentiality and safety on campus. What should that ra do with that video if anything . For most staff members, its written in their contract or job expectations that theyre not a confidential person to report things to. The staff member has to report up, they should be transparent to that person that was directly involved. Im a reporting party, heres whats going to happen, and you have these rights as a victims survivor. Its recognized that various staff members, faculty on campus may hold that responsibility, need to be upfront about it, and the ra did receive that information from someone, because someone felt it was important to share. And to do something about that. On the flip side, the staff member is also referring that victim survivor to an agency or a resource that can be completely confidential. That that individual can disclose more or know more indepth what their rights are. Everyone agrees the ra has to report the video. The school has to decide whether ras are reporting the video or not. Should the schools be required to have the ra report the video in those circumstances . Should we require schools to make that video, a report to the University Administration . They dont have to now, should we require it . In terms of safety for the community, if were not putting that information forward more broadly, we cant address the safety for the next victims, so, yes, i would think that ra would be required to report that, dana and john . On the one hand ras are not often times paid pleas of the school. So theyre taking the responsibility. And alongside that comes ideas of mandated reporting. So on that side, University Employees do have to adhere to mandated reporting. Sort of measures and in that way, the ra would have to report. At the same time, i think there need to be just because an ra has to report something happened does not mean that an investigation has to go on. Thats my next question. Do we agree the report has to be made . Yeah, why would they not . Theyre not there by accident. Theyre in positions of trust, they have the responsibility to advice and protect students, why would they not be. Ill jump in here, if we make that a statute, ras are notorious for holding leadership roles, if they choose to be a Sexual Assault crisis counselor or advocate. Theres a contending statute where theyre not required to report that information and must not report that information, so thats one of the complexities of if we were to require a student staff housing to report that information, where it might conflict. I think the university of missouri might be the odd one out. We thats a mandatory reporter for us. And one of the things that were looking at right now, we have all employees as mandatory reporters except for those that are exempted because of other protections, hippa for example and the like. We are looking for who should be a set of confidential reporters and are considering that as a task force to our leadership. At this point, not oath do we want to be aware of it, but we want to make sure we have the opportunities to inform the victim not only of all the Resources Available to help him or her, and their crisis and trama, but also making sure that rights are protected, and the opportunity to proceed with any kind of other inves ta ga tory processes are there. Its absolutely at our institution, a requirement that they report. And once its reported i assume its reported to the University Administration, does the University Administration then have any duty to report this to University Police for investigation or to criminal justice authorities for investigation . Local Municipal Police department for investigation. Is there any duty to do that . I mean, id like to speak really quickly about the fact that there are tools available to schools even if they werent reporting, even if an ra in that situation did not report personally identifying information which is an option. You can classify your ras that way under the faq that came out from the department of education. If you are just counting the statistic the faq makes it clear that there are things you can do on campus about that incident about the culture, about systemic change that dont have to do with this mandatory reporting that would cause problems were raising here by mandating or legislating the issue. There are things about changing the atmosphere on campus, rearranging the events, thinking about what you allow in dorms. There are so many things you can do on kpugs that i dont know that the schools are taking advantage of all the systemic changes, to throw up our hands and say the solution is to up the chain to Law Enforcement. Im not sure that is a check or balance on the things the schools already have the tools to do. Those outside actors wouldnt require those kind of changes eith either. What youre saying is that title ix gets this video, looks at it, and its very clear who the young woman is, and its clear who the two or three young men are, and they can go take action against the two or three young men and kick them off campus . The line coordinator can, thats pretty clear. The ra, you have the Opportunity Schools are supposed to be up front about whether their ras are supposed to go to the coordinator or not in that situation. Now, if this is somebody who has come to school before theyre 18 and there is a statutory crime being committed, do they let these perpetrator go, even though they have the evidence they need to convict someone . I want to take one step back here. When you have a video of that nature, i think the confident confidentiality protocol addresses this. They must report. They are going to have to turn over the video in this scenario. If the victim says i dont want to have anything to do with this, that isnt a request for confidentiality. Thats where the series of factors in the faq comes into play. Yeah, but i read that, i read that. I mean, im a prosecutor, im reading this and going, are you kidding . Theyre weighing whether or not they got its exacerbated, say the three guys are on the football team, right . Here ace these university authorities, they have three young men, they have individual yo evidence of a felony crime being committed and theyre weighing whether or not theyre going to do something about those perpetrators . Where they dont need the cooperation of the survivor, necessarily. Where they have enough evidence to take action and protect the public. Protect the public. There are a couple things id like to say. First off, no case is an open and shut case for sexual violence. The unfortunate reality is ive had a few. Yes, yes. And there are, but a 2 to 3 success rate. A 2 to 3 of rapists ever spend a day in jail. I think that when an individual is required to report something that happens to their title ix coordinator, thats one thing. Schools have mandated reporting rules and thats completely acceptable. But when were then talking about mandating a report to the criminal Justice System were now taking it a step further out of the hands of the survivor, and when someone is sexually victimized they lose complete agency in that situation and so all steps that must be taken after it, must be done to return agency. Thats something thats done in rape crisis counseling, something thats seen as a technique in all of these frameworks. When you are having a survivor, then have to not only have a conversation with their ra about the fact that an ra is a mandated reporter. Then probably a conversation with the title ix coordinator and on top of that, have a conversation with the criminal Justice System, which historically has not treated survivors well. Thats really difficult. Really really difficult. And now were seeing three huge events that have the potential to be incredibly traumatizing, incredibly triggering and have really Serious Mental Health risks for the survivor. Then were talking about endangering the welfare of the survive survivor by making them go through traumatizing processes. To me, thats something that is it cant happen. I think its really hard, after having done years of my own casework. I think its hard for people to understand that victims often in that initial stage, i like to call it pushing the walls out. Its like mazlos hierarchy of need. If they cannot satisfy those basic needs, victims have no way of making much more complex and complicated decisions like whether im going to pursue a civil rights violation, a criminal compliant. Often times they are not in a place where they can make and understand the consequences of that early stage. Why i feel so strongly is that allows victims time and space. One of the things i found out recently is the military system has something similar to what the faq talks about, in terms of restricted and unrestricted. I would be curious to see whether or not there are any kind of statistics that shows if victims went in the restricted lane first. If after a certain amount of time they chose to go unrestricted and be more open and file more complaints. I dont know that myself. Were seeing a spike in unrestricted. That has been because we took the incredible step that we would i would love to take throughout the country and that is now a victim gets their own lawyer. So that that advice. The victim is getting it at the moment of report has made a real difference. I think we i dont hold me i think the increase in unrestricted reports since the special victims advocate was put into place has jumped by 30 in just the last year. So you know, i get and believe me, ive had victims that i have all of us who have handled these indications, know how incredibly traumatic it is, and how hard it is, and how many victims that ive struggled with keeping in the process when we could get a conviction and they couldnt do it. Because of the Mental Health needs they had. And you have to be very, very respectful of that, i dont want to give the impression, but i also know that for every case when perpetrators get away with it, were creating more cases. And if we take the position that the criminal Justice System is historically bad to victims, we are giving up on making the criminal Justice System historically better for victims. It is. They are intertwined and thats why one of the next roundtable were going to spend most of our time on that. I think that what you are saying about the way that we interact with survivors at a moment to report to either of these buckets were talking about, is far more crucial than a mandatory requirement. Thats my opinion. I agree. And i think thats where a good conversation lies because i dont know these are wonderfully trained University Representatives here, i dont know that thats the case at every school. This is really a path that could be a game changer, i think for survivors on campus that doesnt necessarily remove their agency many. One of the things i just want to you said, we could ask each other a question, if thats okay. And that hypothetical that came up, you know, as i was writing a note for us at the university, were considering an ra who gets that video to then go to the title 9 coordinator who reports to the chance letter, so that we remove some of the things that cat described earlier in terms of getting to the leadership. And if that coordinator is the person who goes to that student and not the ra, well trained, able to be able to provide a wealth of information about resources and potentially bringing Crisis Management people to that person to help them through that trauma. Does that make a difference then in the response that you gave . As opposed to the ra going to immediately going to the title ix coordinator and the title ix coordinator approaches the young lady . Ive seen it happen a couple different ways where the student ends up coming to me, the victim as a result of being outed, so to speak, or those that come to me directly. However they get to me, they get to me. Im glad we can move forward on investigating if thats the appropriate route. What i think is more challenging is leaderships understanding of the role of the title ix coordinator, where the positions housed p. M. The realm of authority is different everywhere. At one institution i could report to five people down. At another institution, i could report to the number one person. I think theres a challenge with respect to the role of the title ix coordinator and the level of authority thats a challenge. I wanted to make a quick point. The criminal Justice System needs to be improved. And i think that improvement is very almost. I think in a lot of ways the legislation may be the place for that. At the same time we dont want to have survivors acting as guinea pigs. And the campus system has the ability to be more easily manipulated. It has the ability to be more easily changed. And is a place where survivors have been feeling more comfortable. I think that to say that the criminal Justice System needs to be improved and, therefore, we cant be sort of shuttling people away from it, or giving students multiple options might be dangerous just because its a system that hasnt been good. The only way to change it is to keep working with it, and send everyone there, if that makes sense. I mean, for example, i attempted to go to the police, it was a pretty open and shut case, i was told. And they ceased investigating because it was a same sex Sexual Assault. Listen, theres no excuse for that, and thats where there should be, obviously, theres believe me, i understand im so old that i had cases that all the men in my office said we cant take this case to trial because the woman was on birth control. We cant make a rape case against someone whos on birth control. I watched rape shield statutes get enacted, victim advocates being hired i watched grants going out where in most major prosecutors offices now, there is an entire cadre of highly trained people that work hand in hand with sex assault victims day in and day out. There are thousands of prosecutors across this country that held these cases with skilled professionalism and a great deal of sensitivity to how difficult it is for the victim. Im not discounting that there are many problems we have to address. But i cant sit here and just with a broad sweep say that criminal prosecution across this country is ineffective and unprofessional in terms of dealing with victims needs. I know thats not the case. And i really know that while theres Horror Stories across the country, how criminal justice has mishandled cases. There are many heroes across the country within the criminal Justice System that have done yeomans work in this area. I think its important to get that balance out there for victims to hear about the balance. I think so often victims hear the Horror Stories and they dont realize there are men and women across this country that have dedicated their lives to effectively prosecuting these types of crimes and protecting victims rights in the process. I think its important that victims hear both of that, rather than, you dont want to go there, dont go there, its going to be terrible if you go there. And im worried that too much of that is going on right now, john. And i think part of the progression is, that there are now victims advocates in many of our courts. And increasingly in the military, which as you said accounted for some of the increase in reporting. Just as a general proposition, do folks here disagree with the idea that we ought to have more victims advocates . And maybe even require . So one idea that has come up which i think will be helpful, these victim advocates are effective. And perhaps having every campus assign a liaison to that campus, if a student decides they want to pursued criminal justice season, theres an individualized person that understands the students rights and needs and title ix and that campuss policies as well as the criminal Justice System. The people who are doing the amazing work right off the bat. If thats a route they chose to take, they have the best Resources Available. Lets talk about resources. Im confused. And i know this isnt asking about any specific cases or why or why not certain cases are taken up by doj. The pipeline of these cases, and when you i mean, you i think you said 25 lawyers want to handle this . 25 lawyers for, i think we have 8,000 institutions. I mean, it doesnt take anybody long to figure out that you all are drinking from a fire hose in terms of the work thats being presented to you. Im trying to figure out where these cases are going that you are handling, and how are we prioritizing them, and what kind of urgency can we bring to this debate about Public Resources that are desperately needed for department of education for department of justice, and frankly the grant funds. How many applications are we getting . And when you talked about the funding from doj to monday tan, that for example, is that from the same pot of money that the grant that is go to for Domestic Violence . Is that the same pot of money . Or is it specified separately . Im thank you for these questions and im happy to answer them. I wonder if we could talk about the topic we just left. There are a couple things to note, the first is that one of the benefits is that we have the jurisdiction and thursday to address sex discrimination in Law Enforcement. That is part of what we ended up doing with the missoula employment and the agency on campus which we addressed under our agencies. That is done by a group of lawyers, it is limited in size. There are tools to address patterns of sex discrimination and the way in which Law Enforcement responds to Sexual Assault. I think more globally, i think everyone at this table shares the ultimate goal of increasing reporting to universities and where criminal conduct is involved to Law Enforcement increasing account ability for perpetrators. Protection for survivors. Increasing the opportunities for students to feel safe on campus. So i my instinct is that the push back that youre hearing here is about how we best achieve that goal. I think thinking structurally about it, we dont want to do things that will inadvertently decrease the amount of reporting and the opportunity for both the universities and Law Enforcement to weighin. So i think, john, this is what you were saying that i think ogws experience, the experience of others in the justice department, supporting victims and making sure that in the first instance they feel comfortable and supported and that they can get the services that they need on a confidential basis may be the key ultimately to increasing that kind of reporting. Anyway, on the resources front, and ill ask my colleague to respond on the Grant Funding. But with regard to civil rights enforcement, you know, we do the best we can. We have, i think, extraordinarily dedicated and competent attorneys. There are actually fewer than 25 at last count. There were 22 or 23. We try to choose our cases wisely. We try to choose those where we can have an impact on practices around the country. So in working with the university of montana, our hope is that the progress that the university there has made will not be restricted to that campus. That other universities will look at the agreement that is posted on our website. Will look at the guidance put out by the department of education, will look at the amicus briefs we filed and use those materials to better understand their own responsibilities and the ways in which they can implement effective measures on their own campuses. We have tried to do Technical Assistance, weve coordinated with the department of education on releasing guidance. So as i mentioned, we discussed the most recent set of faqs extensively. There are a number of guidance documents not in this context, but in other contexts of education that we released jointly with them again. Could we do more with more resources . Absolutely. Would we love to have more resources to do this work . Yes. Do we do absolutely the best we can . And is this a priority for the department . Absolutely clearly so. And the final thing id note is that the Civil Rights Division is the enforcement arm of the department, but we do have offices across the department that do this work. The office of violence against women. The office for victims of crime. The National Institute of justice, the bureau of justice statistics, the office of Justice Programs which also gives grants to Law Enforcement and others, and all of those resources Work Together and were in communication with people in all of those offices, so that we can bolster the work were doing, so we entered into an agreement with the university of montana, ovw ensured that they got a grant so they could fund some of the improvements that our agreement called for. Alison do you want to add something about Grant Funding . Sure. I can say that we receive many more applications than we can fund. Thats an issue across our office, we fund about 50 pshsz at the most. I havent gotten emailed the exact number, well provide that to you, but its very competitive. And we wish we could fund all the campuses that are coming forward and seeking our assistance. We would love the stats on that. The money you have, the breakdown of where its going how many campuses are applying, how many campuses are receiving that would be helpful to us, one of the things we talked about is more. And maybe even more specific Grant Programs for example, should a title ix be required to have training. Should a title ix coordinator be entitled to have training. The people add jude indicating these cases should they have training . If were going to require training, some universities i would make the argument they could find ways to do this training without additional funding. All universities are struggling, they have costs that we can all we have to do is look maybe penalties are imposed they have to go into a dedicated fund for that may be something we can look at. Wed love to get those statistics. It looks like in fq 13 we had 127 applications and we could make 28 awards, so a huge disparity in the demand and what were able to do. Wed be happy to give you more statistics. Im surprised there are only 128. That probably tells us we have a lot of work to do. Since the inception of our campus program, weve funded 388 institutions, which is a drop in the bucket compared to the total number. Something that id be curious to see is which of the 55 schools and the five more than are reasonable added are in the 128 that applied, just to see if these schools that are being investigated perhaps arent doing the best job, and enforcing title ix. Well be able to provide you that information. I know there are a few public story stories of those not applying for the grant. Because . They werent interesting in adhering to all the suggestions or requirements. They werent interested in all the requirements . Yeah. Its a great grant it has a lot of things schools need to proactively do and change on their campus, that may not be something the school has decided to undertake. Well, thats important to know. One of the things if theres an ocr if theres a complaint about how a university is handled one of these investigations. In a Regional Office of the department of education, office of civil rights determines that it has merit, they can they do penalties without referring it to you . I want to make sure i understand how this practically works. I carpet speak for the department of education, but my understanding about how it works is, they do an investigation if they find a violation, they attempt to negotiate a resolution agreement with the university that will bring the university into compliance. If they cant negotiate such an agreement at that point in time, they can refer it to us for litigation, so we can get involved then. If we have an independent complaint because we fund the school, which means that people can come to us under title ix or under title iv, we often do these investigations jointly. I guess what im getting at, i need to figure out how many complaints are out there where youre not getting involved and nothing is happening . In other words, when the when education gets to the end of the line, they wont cooperate. They cant get anything done, they cant get some kind of voluntary resolution. And for a number of reasons, maybe because its one you dont have any evidence of more than one incident or you dont have the severe enough situation, because you cant take them all. You all dont take it, and then it just i need to know how many of those there are again, i cant speak for the department of education, i know that their office for civil rights shares the department of justices commitment to addressing this problem. I know they do. Both of you, i mean, i dont theres no question about commitment. I think a lot of this is a resources issue. Im not being critical of the kind of work youre doing or how youre doing it. We need to be able to show our colleagues, this is the body of work that needs to be done, and this is whats getting done. Because if we cant demonstrate in this budget environment a real need, were going to have difficulty getting more resources and theres no doubt in my mind if were only giving 28 grants to College Campuses to address this out of 8,000 College Campuses, we obviously are nibbling at the edges here. My guess is, the data will show that were nibbling at the edges for less. Id like to speak to the parallel with the need for more funding for investigators and what not. Its exactly the same thing in higher education. Were advocates for funds for our title ix coordinators for resources, for marketing our campaigns, et cetera. Were trying to do the same thing, trying to provide training there are not enough title ix coordinators to go around. If you were in a job search as a title ix coordinator, you have a lot of options. There are not a lot trained ones to go around. Theres a difference between a good title ix coordinator. Right. But theres definite parallel in your work attempting to come up with the resourss to do this well, and our institutions are doing the same thing. Right. Were trying to come up with the resources to do it well. A lot of smaller schools, the bigger issue is that the title 9 coordinator is wearing i had the training, and she had four or five different jobs. And the more i added to the list of things that really she needed to be working on, the more concerned i became for her. I think in some ways its making sure theres a commitment from the top down that theyre adequately given the ability to do the job. Lets turn it to you all. Is there something we have not talk talked about . Weve hit resources, anonymous reporting, private cause of action, mandatory reporting. Is there anything that we have not talked about today that is on your list that we should know abo about. I have two pieces. I was going to piggyback on the last conversation about the need for more resources for ocr. I think that following the signing of these voluntary resolution agreements, there arent enough ocr folks to go around and monitor these vras. Ive heard from students where the same administrators are still on campus, still mistreating survivors as john has spoken about. Where ocr in a volunteer resolution agreement has asked a school to do more consent programming, but actually what that looks like on the ground is pie baking contests. Steps that arent literally . Literally, i have spoken to a student at her university following the signing of a volunteer resolution agreement, there were pie baking contests as part of consent education and bringing people together. Thats not getting at the real issue, if we had more folks at ocr able to go around to schools, we would see more results. Good point. There were two pieces, the question you asked were, things to make sure we dont leave anything left unsaid. There hasnt been a lot of conversation about prevention. And one of the things that we know is Substance Abuse or alcohol usage is so closely correlated to some of these instances that lead to incap as taking. We are really trying to figure out, again, were trying to change culture. So the prevention effort, theres a lot out there. And i know that the White House Task force mentions an effort to try to provide data. I go back to, if im making a recommendation to our president , i want some evidence, some demonstrated success of sustainability of those efforts. And likewise, around sustainability for training ive heard a number of Different Things today around different federal offices that provide resources on training. I dont know that theres one place to go to find all of those resources, and if there is a place, please let me know. I dont know where that is. I know that you can find Different Things looking in different places, but you might miss something. If there is resources put forward at a federal level for training, i would encourage a train the trainer model. I dont know how we would be able to sustain it. Similar to what we do, what were thinking about in our institution, unless we can do this in house, at some point in time, to stay on our own two feet. We wont have a sustainable change. I would hope that that same conversation is happening on a National Level. The point that you raised about prevention. That comes back to the title ix coordinator or the Sexual Assault prevention coordinator, it isnt necessarily only at big schools, because in the roundtable i held i found that some of the schools that devoted the most attention and resources were smaller schools as well, and they devoted them not just to responding, to hearing from survivors, but to reaching out and proactively engaging in by stander intervention to stop this stuff from happening. It may well be that the hypothetical that senator mccaskill gave you of the dormitory occurs but often there are people there that can inver scene. The programs that have been started to prevent and change the culture i think are very important as well. And there ought to be resources for those programs not just for the prosecutorial end of it. I think its important to note that a good response is prevention. There is a recent study done, its actually a preventative measure and people are less likely to commit Sexual Assault if they have that looming over their heads. Obviously we need to talk about larger cultural shifts that only gets us two to four years out, to set that as the norm at the National Level that comes back to the point that senator mccaskill was making about somebody who has committed a crime while respecting the need for confidentiality, i think some of the comments here have been very, very important on the need for confidentiality one of the reasons is to deter. When a crime occurs, one of the reasons why prosecutors are so vehement about going after it, and vigilance is deterrence. I think that as long as we have a 2 conviction rate in this country were not deterring the crime. Disciplinary beyond a reasonable doubt is hard. Especially in consent cases. But i dont know where the 2 figure comes from. I will tell you this, i handled hundreds of these cases, myself personally. I guarantee you my conviction rate was much better than 2 . I handled a lot of consent cases. And so i i dont know what thats being judged from. Where that 2 figure is coming from. I guarantee you its not accurate for professional prosecutors offices with trained sex crimes prosecutors, their conviction rates are much higher than 2 . I dont know where that number is coming from . Its coming from a study called the justice gap. The statistics are, if you have 100 rapes committed, 17 go to Law Enforcement, 7 go to prosecution or trial, 3 are actually convicted and 2 are incarcerated. Its 2 out of the 100. Its a very different number. Yes, sometimes its used in different ways, but thats where that number comes from, the study. You talk about 17 out of 100 reported. Correct. And then 7 go to trial, yeah. Thats 7 of the 17 that have come forward actually make it to trial. What about the guilty pleas . That actually, i dont know that thats necessarily taken into it. The vast majority are plead out . Yeah. We got guilty pleas im not sure, that is the answer to where that statistic is coming from. I think its important. Prosecutors cant be criticized for not prosecuting cases that have never been reported. They can be criticized for not aggressively treating cases when will people do come forward. We have to provide the kind of structure around this issue where victims have every opportunity to make a decision to decide for themselves what they want to do and feel comfortable that they are going to have support, good information and adequate resources throughout the process. If we can do that, were going do have a lot more than 17 that are going to be reported out of every 100. And were going to have a lot more convictions. The cases that are being reported. I guarantee the conviction rate is higher than 2 . I think i can speak for people across america. Yes. The private right of action. Just one thing id add. It is clearly the right thing to do. It can be the legally required thing to do. If a school has had an incident of Sexual Assault, one of the things that title 9 requires is that it take the necessary steps to ensure that that does not recur. That means that they have to do structural things to identify the source of the problem. If it is alcohol, they may need to have a greater Law Enforcement or Campus Security presence at places where alcohol is going to be present. They may need to mount by stander intervention programs. They may need to work with their students or with the heads of greek life how to spot problems before they emerge and what to do about them, i think it is a critical thing to do from the outset. It is also something that if a University Falls short, it can add to its liability for subsequent incidents. Thats something that i think can get a university frankly, you probably very few universities even know that that is part of the potential repertoire that can be used against them in one of these cases. We talked when we had the meeting earlier, i think part of the problem here is that i would doubt Many University president s may know something about the university of montana settlement, but probably more dont know about it than do it is one of those problems, how do we if we just do prevention as in response to your cases, unless we really figure out a way to get you about four times as many lawyers like immediately, were probably not going to put the kind of dent in this we want to put in it. Thats where you implement the Campus Climate survey. It can be helpful on prevention and on an ongoing end as well. Yeah. We talked about that Climate Survey in the last roundtable. Im looking forward to that. Id like to propose another idea. And it was suggested when you were doing the phone calls, Financial Aid has a web page for all the Financial Aid officers in the country. They have a list serve they push out a weekly email every saturday morning. Their resolutions, electronic announcements, training calendar, et cetera, is all on line for Financial Aid officers. Could there not be something for title ix coordinators as well that could have training components. Another way to look at it is with a federal National Emergency system, for someone to be a first respobder, they have to have the certification every year. On title 9 coordinators are often first responders. If there were educational components, modules that could be done. Theres module 100, 200, 300, whatever, for the fralg National Emergency system that the participants do is there something available that couldnt be done for a title 9 coordinator who wants desperately to do this well, and there isnt a single association for title 9 coordinate ors. There are lots address it. Could there not be something patterned after the Financial Aid offering . I would add that there is even in statute a program for Technical Assistance under title 9 that hasnt been funded in several years. The womens Educational Equity act. Theres a vehicle to do this sort of thing or to get resources flowing to these types of programs. We could use them. I think your suggestions are spot on. We may want to write new ways of doing it, but we also arent even taking advantage of the ways we already have. The technology piece of this ought to make this communication piece i mean, having a title 9 web page that bannered the university of montana settlement and every piece of it and all of that. I mean, going immediately to every title nine officer in the country, thats a terrific idea that we ought to be able to do without got to be able we dont spend a lot of money on it, though. One thing i think all of you are aware is that the White House Task force did create a website called not alone. Gov, which does contain some of these materials, and i think will grow over time. Suggestions would be welcome. Thats a good website. I dont know that it will specifically fit the needs on to the extent we would like them to for the title 9 coordinator. Ill piggyback ow, cat, and add one of the things that we are looking into is the forensic investigator training that is available. What we are learning is that its inconsistent from what we are hearing across the country of what would be considered best end practice. The other thing that i need to delve into more i learned on friday is ive been looking at some of the training modules that happen for those investigators if we were to have a cadre of them. There seems to be a disconnect in implementation to do something that we could train on our own. In your next conversation, which i think this is probably more appropriate when you get to that Law Enforcement, i would be interested in maybe you delving into more about the forensic investigators and the competencies that are needed. When they are well trained, do they ever fall short . I will tell you that they do fall short sometimes even when theyre well trained, but the training is the first key. The vast majority of Law Enforcement that gets the training does a great job with it. I will tell you that you are right, the next roundtable were going to deal with a lot of this in terms of what kind of training that is Law Enforcementbased, especially the forensic interview. The first interview that that title 9 coordinator has with the victim or whoever university designates to have that victim, how that interview is conducted is so important to what happens. It predicts the outcome so frequently. We know this from looking at a lot of statistics, and in missouri one of the places that they are doing a masterful job of doing this kind of training for the military is im sure you could access their training down there. Im sure they would be happy to accommodate you. Im busy trying to get all the military to access this training. I think they would make every effort to accommodate training people that are not in the military. In fact, they told me that when i visited them not even a month ago. Senator bloomen that will earlier and senator mchaskell you as well were talking about sort of sanctions and intermediate saxzs against schools and how were not really looking to remove all federal funding, but how we can come up with a method of finding or Something Like that that is effective, and when i get has been tossed around this idea is having a sliding scale. Then its dependent on the endowment of the university how large of a fine it is, and where that money goes could be towards these programs. I think you have a really good point that oftentimes universities dont have the funds themselves or dont have that allocation down right now to have all the Resources Available, and so perhaps having the sliding scale so that when a school is fined,en only are they being fined perhaps some of the fine is going to the federal government, going to d. O. J. , going to ed, but also internally the allocation of money. The allocation of resources to hiring a new position to things like that to prevention efforts and, you know, i think thats a way to make punishments not only that a school is out of compliance that are efficient and effective, but also end up sort of having a feedback into really positive things. Right. Anything else . Yes. If i may. To give you an example of why title 9 coordinators need as much help as possible, i have been having coordinators call me from across the country, how do we make sense of this all . In my limited and with assistance tried to come up with a chart, a visual, with the intersection of cleary, the dear colic letter, violence against womens act, section 304, ferpa, and try to come up with how does this all work and what are we supposed to do for what . This is just an example of how in our field were attempting to get a good understanding of this. If you are like us yes, please. We would have one of those for the record. Cat, if you could redraw that diagram in a way that would make more sense, were the ones you need to tell us how to do it because we can change all of this to make it more seamless and integrated so there is not the conflicting and overlapping and thats one of the things were trying to do here is to make it less complicated for the people on the frontlines. Okay. Just for the record, this is primarily tony leaks work from miami. Anybody else . Well, this has been terrific. This is why i think round tables are better than hearings. We wouldnt have gotten oneeighth of this information at a hearing, right . I think its been great. It has been really terrific. Weve gotten a lot of good information and a lot of great ideas. I think the more we do this, the more we understand how important it is that we all keep communicating with each other. The stovepiping in this area is not ever going to work. We all have to talk to one another, and we all have to be sharing what we know and what we know needs to be done. Please, this is open communication that will continue. Feel free if you have other things that you need to know about or if you have questions. Were going to be working on this for a while. We have one more roundtable that well put the survey results out, and then well be looking to try to drop some legislation probably sometime late this month. Im thinking well probably drop legislation with the. Lick et where i split, right . Yeah. Expedited. Fast track. That part will be the hard part, but we will have a piece of legislation that will begin working on within a few weeks, and we want to make sure that we dont over legislate. We want to make sure we address all the problems we need to address. Thank you all for coming very much. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. With live coverage of the u. S. House on cspan and the senate on cspan 2, here on c sman 3 we compliment that coverage by showing you the most relevant congressional hearings and Public Affairs events and then on weekends cspan 3 is the home to American History tv with programs that tell our nations story, including six unique series. The civil wars 150th anniversary, visiting battle fields and key events. American artifacts, touring museums and Historic Sites to discover what artifacts reveal about americas past. History bookshelf with the best known American History writers. The presidency, looking at the policies and legacies of our nations commanders in chief. Lectures in history, with top College Professors delving into americas past, and our new series real america featuring archival government and educational films from the 1930s through the 1970s. Cspan 3, created by the cable tv industry and funded by your local cable and satellite provider. Watch us in hd, like us on facebook, and follow us on twitter. In a few moments a hearing on transportation funding and safety. In two hours an analysis of the recent European Union elections. After that a Heritage Foundation discussion on the congressional investigation into the benghazi attacks of 2012. Later former National Security advisor tom done lan and Steven Hadley and a forum on the role of the Treasury Department in National Security. Cspans new book sundays at eight includes journalist Michael Lewis. We are living through a really traumatic period of time, and it is not over. Were sort of at the beginning does not the end. There are real structural problems. I mean, yes, were going to be living im not an economic forecaster, but everything i read suggests were going to be living with unusually high levels of unemployment, a lot of pain from over indebtedness. A quarter of the country is on food stamps i saw on tv. Its its not a great depression. Were not reprizing exactly what happened in the 1930s, but its a version. Read more of our conversation with Michael Lewis and other featured interviews from our book notes and q and a programs and cspan sunday at eight from Public Affairs book. Now available for a fathers day gift at your Favorite Book seller. Sfwlimplgts up next a hearing on transportation funding and safety. Senators heard from the heads of the federal railroad administration, the federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, and the agency that oversees the safety of pipelines and Hazardous Materials. This is two hours. Good morning. Welcome, everyone. We were were just waiting for senator blunt, and im going to begin with an opening statement, and when he gets here, he can make his. I welcome senator and thank her for her leadership on these issues. Were here at a moment of tremendous promise and peril for our nations Transportation System. Literally the funding for that system expires at the end of september, and theres a need to reauthorize the nations surface transportation law known as the mac 21, which expires at the end of september. Even before then the Highway Trust Fund will go broke in july just next month, and, fortunately, the appropriate Senate Committee is moving ahead with those funding proposals. The transited funding must include rail and must include safety, and that brings us today to these issues and to hearing from the representatives of some of our most important federal oversight and scrutiny agencies when it comes to safety and reliability. Were here at enormous peril and promise. Promise because we have an opportunity to invest in the future of our Transportation System, grow the economy, expand job creation, and achieve a larger vision for our nations Transportation System. At the same time theres tremendous peril. In the decaying and crumbling infrastructure that faces us every day on our roads, bridges, railroads, and other public facilities. So were here to examine how well the agencies are doing as well as our Transportation Systems. Wee immediate to look at what our agencies are doing in their watchdog and oversight as well as what our Public Transportation systems are doing to protect safety and reliability. For the pipeline and Hazardous Material Safety Administration, protecting safety and reliability means insuring that transportation of many products are done in a way that insures protection of the people who live in their environs. It means insuring the Safety Movement of freight on our nations massive railroad system. The ability to properly insure this mission requires resources as well as rules, and thats really true of all of your agencies. Resources and rules and effective enforcement of those rules is a prerecollect quiz it to safety and reliability. There are indications that some of these agencies have very simply been absent from what they should be doing, not on the job. I want to make sure that we are as rigorous and vigilant as immediate be to protect people who use our railroads, as well as other Transportation System. There are red flags. For example, have been red flags with metro north, had is a railroad much in need of attention as well as investment, and i want to make sure that both metro north and the fra have learned from the incidents that have occurred there and, of course, the agencies include the federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration which is essential to insuring the safety commercial driving work force that drives our economy as well as the individuals who ride it. Irjob is to insure really the rules only have mean if anything theyre enforced and only scrutiny and oversight work for people that rely those rules, and part of our job in addition to making the rules and the laws, the rules of the road, and the laws that govern those rules is to assure that theyre realistic and practical, but also that theyre properly funded. I want to hear from all of you and i look forward to hearing from our colleagues on these issues and turn now to the Ranking Member. Well, thank you, chairman. I want to say, chairman new york the brief time youve been chairman of this committee, you have really brought focus on a number of issues. Weve had a number of hearings, lug the one were going to have today that i think are very important and your leadership here has made a difference. The Commerce Committee does work on all modes of transportation. Not just highways, railroads, waterways, even pipelines, and from a state like mine, this is critical work. If you look at a railroad map of america or highway map of america or river map of america, as i told the General Assembly in missouri the other day and begin to focus on where all three of those things come together, were right in the middle of that. All these things matter dramatically to our future, to our economic future, and our ability to compete. Obviously theres a lot of discussion going on about the highway bill for a couple of reasons. One is the one we are currently under expires in september and another one is that that fund runs dry even before that. What our committee can do and what this subcommittee can do to get ready for our part of that bill is important. The things we can do to draw attention to sustainable funding and to additional and innovative funding sources, i think, can make a difference here. Were now examining how we maintain this system. Im going to be interested today to hear from the federal Rail Administration and the pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration on how things are going in the crude by rail discussion. Theres been a lot of testing data shared recently involving bachen crude and how were reacting to that. Ill also be interested to hear how this is being utilized as we line up the collection that fisma is doing and how were going to be ready for that. Also, ongoing concerns regarding regulations and enforcement programs with federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, our topics that i hope we hear discussed today and ill have some questions on that. Ive heard from Motor Carriers of all sizes that the agency really isnt adequately considering the impact of its rules and programs. I asked the secretary at a hearing we had not too long ago for a response on a couple of specific questions that i havent gotten yet and hopefully well get those covered today. I finally look forward to hearing from the office of research and technology on how Research Funding might be accessible to local communities for trying to come up with innovative and locally driven solutions to their transportation problems. Hell close by stressing the need for the longterm transportation planning, which includes a Stable Funding source, something that every member of the senate and the congress should be interested in. Great opportunities are out there with the expansion of the panama canal with how we collect all of our transportation modes together, how we connect them together in the best possible way, and im pleased were having this hearing today, and thanks for your leadership, chairman. Thank you, senator. Thank you for your leadership and for your being here today. Im not going to provide lengthy backgrounds as to each of your credentials in the interest of time. I think well just turn to the testimony, but were very pleased to have today individuals who not only lead significant agencies, but also had extraordinary backgrounds and expertise in the areas of transportation, so we thank you for your Public Service as well as for your being here today. Perhaps we can begin with joseph sabo, the administrator of the federal railway association. S. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to testify today. By 2050 our surface Transportation System must be ready to move an additional 100 million more people, which equals the combined population of our four most populous states california, texas, new york, and florida. Our freight system, meanwhile, will have to annually move an additional four billion tons of freight. The weight roughly of 10,000 empire state buildings. So imagine if we fail to move all these people and all that freight safely, reliably, and efficiently. Imagine the negative impact that that could have on business growth, on commute times, not quality of life. If we return to a decades long pattern of under investing in our rail system, there will be negative consequences. Just look at the classic highway and airport congestion. More than 140 billion in 2012, and this was driven by current demand, not future. We have an opportunity through the grow america act to chart a more sustainable course. We have an opportunity as the title implies to grow our rail network and grow americas Transportation Capacity to meet future challenges. In the grow america act will enable us to do this while driving Continuous Improvement in safety. Since fiscal year 2004 our Rail Safety Program has reduced train accidents by nearly 50 to record low numbers, but we also know from our data that the most vulnerable safety area is human error. Today it accounts for nearly 40 of train accidents. Grow america in several ways supports our efforts to drive continuous safety improvement. For one, the 19 billion it would invest in rail safety and Rail Development programs includes 2. 3 billion to support Commuter Rail lines in their efforts to install positive train control. The technology that is designed to reduce human error accidents. It would provide us the tools to manage the implementation process effectively, including the authority for provisional certifications. Grow america would also fwif us the authority to establish new hours of Service Regulations based on sound fatigue science, a key step towards reducing accidents caused by fatigue. It calls for a nationwide rollout, a close call reporting systems, allowing us to gather data before an accident occurs and develop Risk Mitigation strategies well in advance. Sustained federal investment and Rail Network Enhancements and in research and development has to also be a part of the mix. On Development Side the fund would fund needed repairs, groove existing services and build new corridors. It would invest in the Rail Passenger connections that Record Number of amtrak riders deserve and would invest in short line rail infrastructure, safety upgrades to bridges, tracks, and signal systems. It would invest in Great Crossing improvements in the sealing off of corridors and network efficiency, reducing the negative impacts of rail operations on communities and enhancing safety transportation of Hazardous Materials. Our proposal really does even more than that and provides for the rail for the first time err for predictable dedicated funding to put it on par for other surface transportation modes. If you go back to 2009 and 2010 when federal funding for our Passenger Rail program was made available, those years we received applications requesting seven times the available funding. Grow america will keep us moving forward and not just for one or two years, but over the longterm. So we look forward to working with all of you to reverse this pattern of federal under investment in our rail system to working together to foster publicprivate partnerships, to incentivize state and local plan and to tackle the backlog of good rail projects all across the country in need of a federal funding partner. Look forward to your questions. Thank you, mr. Chairman. , Ranking Member blunt and the subcommittee wrshz thank you for testifying today on the federal Motor Carrier Safety Administrations progress in implementing both our map 21 requirements as well as the opportunity to lay out the safety provisions in the grow america act. Safety is fmcsas top priority, and, yet, since 2009 with the advent of our continued economic recovery, which is very, very good, the down side is theres been an 18 increase in crashes involving commercial Motor Vehicles and then the number of People Killed in those crashes. We can do better than that, and working together with congress, enforcement, advocates, and our Industry Partners using research, public dialogue, and sensible policies, we can raise the safety bar for truck and bus operations. Map 21 has been part of the strategy, and fmcsa has been moving forward to meet all of the requirements. To date weve completed more than half of the rule making required under map 21. For example, we invented agricultural exemptions and all the security environments for freight foreigners provided under the law. We are well on our way to establish the First National drug and alcohol clearinghouse which will, many of the, help employers determine whether a driver is complying with federal drug and alcohol regulations, including mandatory testing. The notice of rule making and the 90 day period closed just last month. In march we issued a supplemental notice to create an Electronic Logging Device requirement across the industry. This proposal will improve hours of Service Compliance and, hence, the uniform use of those logs will actually improve and mitigate the impacts of fatigue related driving and fatigue related crashes. In fact, the analysis of this proposal shows that it will help prevent approximately 20 deaths, over 400 injuries each year, and have an annual safety benefit of almost 400 million. Comments on that proposal are still able to be made up through the end of this month. Map 21 is helping us reach our safety goal of getting to one level of safety for all passengers regardless of what type of bus company they choose. Fmcsa is training all of our special agents with new enhanced investigation tactics to uncover safety deficiencies and remove dangerous buses and operators from the road. Some Companies Take full advantage of the opportunity we give them to get better, to use the information we provided, use the audits to fix their problems. For those that dont, we will put them and we have put them out of business. In fact, last year we shut down over 100 unsafe bus operations. Looking at the longterm, president obama has laid out a vision in the grow america act that enhances our safety work. Grow america focuses on three key areas to improve commercial Motor Vehicle safety. On motorcoach safety grow america will expand our opportunities to inspect motor coaches at additional sites and it will give fmcsa jurisdiction over passenger ticket brokers, folks who really do defraud customers tooz what kind of company theyre about to use. It takes strong steps to improve our effectiveness under grow america by allowing criminal prosecution of companies that deliberately violent federal out of service requirements. Another provision calls for require companies to pay drivers for uncompensated time. Its not news to know that when drivers are held up in the loading dock, waiting for shipments to be loaded or unloaded, they are often, more often than not, unpaid, uncompensated. As they face pressure to make up that loss uncompensated time by pushing both their physical limits as well as the legal driving limits. This proposal will ease the economic stress on Long Distance drivers by insuring that they receive fair compensation for the hours they work, and, finally, grow america streamlines and consolidates our safety grants program. Hence, improving and providing better efficiencies both for the agency, but more importantly for our state enforcement and licensing partners. Mr. Chairman, thank you for the opportunity to share a bit about what fmcsa is focused on and the opportunity to answer questions today. I look forward to your questions. Thank you very much, and now administrator, huh thank you for being here. Good morning. Chairman blumenthal, members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me here today to testify on the pipeline and Hazardous Material administrations progress in implementing the Hazardous Material safety provisions of map 21. Im also delight to discuss the ways that grow america act will further improve upon the efforts of fimsa and the department to enhance the safety of our nations Hazardous Materials Transportation System. Safety is the top priority of secretary fox, the department of transportation, fimsa, and its sister modes. All of us at d. O. T. Appreciate your dedication and leadership in advancing Hazardous Materials Transportation Safety. For a relatively small agency with limited resources, the staff at fimsa works diligently to protect the American Public and the environment from Hazardous Materials transportation incidents and have made Great Strides in implementing the provisions of map 21. Since map 21s enactment in 2012 fimsa has met or will meet more than 90 of the established timelines for the 32 separate provisions assigned to the agency. This is significant given that the many challenges and issues that fimsa was faced over the same time period, including efforts to enhance the safe transportation of crude by rail and continuing to consistently reduce the number of Hazardous Materials incidents over the past 25 years. A significant contributor to fimsas success has been the strategy and action plan we developed and implemented provided to bolster compliance with Hazardous Materials regulation. As the transportation sector continues to evolve and become more interconnected with the international community, fimsa has attempted to adopt smarter strategies to adapt to those changes. As a part of our enforcement strategy and through the authority of map 21, fims raids its maximum Penalty Amount for violations resulting in death, injury, or illness. We believe that clear and appropriate Civil Penalties can improve Transportation Safety by acting as a deterrent for noncompliance. Thats why the grow america act submitted to congress by secretary fox proposes to further increase the maximum amount of fimsa can satisfies for violators of Hazardous Materials regulations. The increased Civil Penalty Authority will allow us to address situations where a higher penalty is warranted, including those events resulting in death, injury, or illness. In addition, the grow america act will further build on map 21s successes and support the departments safety michigan initiatives by improving fimsas ability to oversee the safe transportation of Hazardous Materials. Grow america will give fimsa the authority to issue orders, to industry, to cease activities without prior notice in response to emergency situations. Similar authority is already held by fra and fmcsa and grow america will increase d. O. It. s ability to stop unsafe conditions or practices that may threaten life, personal injury, or harm to property or the environment. Grow america are improve safety by enhancing Registration Requirements and improve the eftiveness of fimsas Hazardous Materials Emergency Preparedness grants program. These are just a few of the many ways map 21 and grow america act can and will provide further safeguards against Hazardous Materials transportation risks for america communities. As ive stated earlier, fimsa is committed to improving Transportation Safety, and i believe our approach is working. A Safety Commission is guided by our mission that no harm results from Hazardous Materials transportation. I truly believe our efforts will continue to prevent and mitigate accidents and move us closer to our goal of zero deaths and injuries. We look forward to continuing to work with this committee and congress to protect people, property, and the environment from Hazardous Materials trpg risks, and i would be happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you very much, secretary winfrey. Thank you, chairman, for the opportunity to visit with you, Ranking Member blunt, and members of the committee to talk about the departments progress in implementing map 21 and the administrations proposal to reauthorize surface transportation programs, the grow america act. The office of the assistant secretary for research and technology continues to lead the departments Research Coordination and commercialization efforts driving crosscollaboration to meet our challenges. Congress has long rised the value of Transportation Research by Funding Research and data programs through the Highway Trust Fund. In my organization, three programs that you authorized under map 21 have continued to advance departmental goals for american transportation. The intelligence Transportation Systems Research Program, the University Transportation centers program, and the bureau of transportation statistics. In its research some of our teams progress has been attracting public attention most notably through the its funded Community Safety pilot in ann arbor, michigan, which is the largest such test program in the world and conducted in collaboration with the university of michigan Transportation Research institute. The results led to nitsas decision to proceed with vehicle to vehicle, v to v technology for light duty vehicles. This technology will improve safety and has the potential to reduce nonimpaired fatalities by up to 80 . The department continues to work toward connected vehicle applications for heavy duty vehicles and the federal Highway Administration is preparing to issue guidance in 2015 for instaug vehicle to infrastructure, v to i applications, for roadway safety at improved traffic operations. I note that all this success and the standards that support it are based upon the availability of the 5. 9 gigahertz dedicated short range communication spectrum. Our utcs continue bringing invasion to the Transportation System and developing the next generation of transportation leaders. We are extremely pleased with the nationwide conshore that of University Selected under the open competition enabled by map 21. Covering over 120 universities which bring expertise and multiple disciplines, utc has enabled smcht systemic interdisciplinary crossmoto research we need to address increasingly complex challenges. We are seeing exciting work in robotic bridge inspections, ought mated vehicles, wireless monitoring of bridge integrity, and disaster with much more to come. Bts continues to fulfill its role as one of the federal governments 13 independent statistical agencies producing Key Information to illuminate decision making. Bts plays a priority on making data readily available and has improved access to data through such applications as the National Transportation atlas viewer and to all forms of transportation data through the National Transportation library. Products include the Commodity Flow survey and its transporter freight data program which are the foundations of our understanding of freight transportation. The range of btss airline data is widely cited. Bts led to the establishment of continually growing safety data. Com website and supports map 21s Performance Measurement goals. The item with the largest impact on my organization took place under the passage of map 21. Januarys omnibus appropriations bill transferred the powers and authorities of the research and Innovative Technology administration to the office of the assistant secretary for research and technology. This is the culmination of an neshtive begun in the president s fy13 budget request. The elevation to the office of the secretary will bring more leadership in sight into Transportation Research and development and data and statistics and will heighten their influence on policy discussions and decision making. The trust Fund Programs will continue their existing missions and maintain key components of the newly elevated office. In addition, the elevation returns responsibility for positioning navigation and timing and Spectrum Management to the secretarys office appropriate for a critical responsibility which impacts all nonmilitary users of gps. Implementing the results of the second strategic Highway Research program by allowing the allocation of up to 25 million per year from the highway account. Establishing a National Cooperative freight Research Program in support of departmental freight goals, including a targeted focus on Hazardous Materials, creating a priority multimoto Research Program creating crossagency research and invasion in three priority wrarz. Infrastructure systems resilience and recovery, a sfwler emissions Transportation System, and a multimobile Stem Education and Work Force Development program. Thank you for this opportunity to update ow our progress and i look forward to your questions. Thank you, mr. Winfrey. I like to begin my question with mr. Sabo. Really pursue a point that mrs. Quarterman raised, and i emphasized earlier, which is that standards need to be sufficiently high. They need to be enforced rigorously, and that penalties have to provide a deterrent to violation of them. She rightly emphasized the need for increased penalties when they fail to provide a deterrent to violation of safety standards. The experience of metro north, i think, provides a National Poster railroad in culminating years of neglect and systematic and cultural failure in a series of catastrophic incidents costing lives and injuries as well as dollars, and i think that a lot of eyes were opened by a series of reports, most significantly in the connecticut post, that detailed the actions of significant penalties over a period of time, 2004 and 2013 where most of the penalties were in the range of 5,000 or 10,000. The total was around 220,000 for a series of defects in procedures and operations that were one of them, for example, applied to robert luten. A metro north worker killed on the tracks near westhaven with a senseless and needless neglect of safety by metro north. The 5,000 was nowhere near a measure of the kind of message and penalty that should have been imposed. More recently a report about kenneth mcgrath, whose death in 2009 resulting in a penalty of 2,000. These relatively minuscule penalties of 2,000 or 5,000 or 10,000, i think the highest over that period of time was 39,000 plainly, i think, provide an ininadequate what is the small to minuscule penalties. What can be done to increase them . Isnt it in a sense a mark of inadequate scrutiny, and it may be that your Authority Needs to be increased that we have this kind of pattern. Well, thank you for the questions, senator. First, let me say its what i expect of myself. Its what i expect of my agency. Its what i expect from the industry that we regulate. So even though weve been able to drive down accidents, injuries, and fatalities over the past decade to record lows, we always look for the avenues that we can take to improve to insure that we continue to achieve new record lows. How do we get to zero, and then once we get there, how do we stay there . Certainly penalties and fines are one piece of the mix. Its one tool in our toolbox. Its one that we try to use effectively. You know, if you are a carpenter, a hammer is important. You bet, but its not the only tool that you use to build a house. Certainly coming out of the ranks, you know, as a rail worker that has been out there and a union rep thats written up complaints to the agency i now head, theres always been a frustration with the level of penalty. One of the things that i did when i got here was make it a priority to do what i could with the tools that i had. In the five years ive been here, senator, we have, in fact, assessed the highest number, the highest dollar amount of penalties in any fiveyear period in the agencys history. Those penalties in the metro north incidents were extraordinarily low, were they not . Well, there is a penalty schedule that we have to follow, and while certainly we, you know, can and will once again take a look at reviewing that penalty schedule, our authority is somewhat limited, i think, to get to the level of penalties that youre talking about. To provide some other snent he haves to be more rigorous and vigorous, more aggressive and its enforce am because frankly, mr. S sdmr abo, a lot of ride verz lost trust and confidence not only in the railroad, but also in the enforcement authority, the fra, and similar federal watchdogs that are responsible for protecting safety. And we certainly owe the public. We owe the public better. We always owe the public better. We have our work to do as an agency, and certainly metro north is a railroad to regain that trust. I really think that if you take a look at what has been proposed m grow america act, it has the package that we need to achieve the next generation of safety, and while penalties and enforcement are one piece of that puzzle, i would argue its only a piece. You know, what we have learned through metro north is less about the need for more inspection, more enforcement, and, frankly, comes more down to the need to advance pro active riskbased programs that identify and mitigate risk in advance, things like confidential close calls and the system safety rule that will be final later this year that will require all Passenger Railroads to do an analysis and then finally Risk Mitigation plan with us that we review and approve and this gets refreshed on an annual basis. I think there are more tools in the package that we have in, and grow america is the appropriate risk of tools. My time has expired for right now, but well have a second round, and i appreciate your responses to my question. I continue to believe that there has to be attention to the penalty provisions to make sure that they are commensurate with the kind of neglect and failing that we have seen at metro north on occasion to deter that kind of violation of basic standards that the public has a right to expect. Im going to turn to senator thome, the Ranking Member of the Commerce Committee. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to thank you and senator blunt for hold this hearing. Ive said many times that maintaining and improving our nations infrastructure is absolutely vital to our countrys economic prosperity, and it also essential that we have a reliable and a safe system of transportation in this country. I appreciate all of you. You all represent agencies that are key to that mission, and i appreciate you being here and your willingness to answer questions. I want to direct the first question, if i might, to administrator sable, and that has to do with positive training control, and i was pleased to see that the grow america act for the first time formally acknowledged the need for an extension, but my question has to do with why there wasnt a straight forward extension of the entire deadline as opposed to try and deal with this as has been suggested on a case by case basis knowing full well that none of these railroads are going to be able to meet that 2015 deadline. Senator, we really belief that the package that weve put together under grow america, particularly relative to positive train control, gives us the right tools and provides the right balance to most advance and insure public safety. You have two ebbing streams. Those that are saying that under no certification should you expand the 2015 deadline to those that say there should be a blanket extension. We believe that with the proposal that we have for provisional certification that, by working with each carrier to modify their Implementation Plan and setting up the milestones that fit for the railroads based on the challenges that each one has individually and then being able to provisionally certify a piece of the system that we can best advance the benefit achieve the benefits of as much of ptc as possible as soon as possible. We really think that its the right approach that recognizes the challenges while also having that accountability and giving the public what they deserve. But doesnt it make sense . If you want to uphold the railroads feet to the fire, theres no deadline in what you are talking about. You know, many of us, our colleagues on the committee here, and others have introduced legislation that would provide this blanket extension that i refer to which does have a hard, Firm Deadline in it. We know that no single Railroad Freight or passenger is likely to meet the 2015 deadline, but the proposal that youre suggesting here doesnt have any particular sense of urgency stafld to it either. If you are going to be able to waive this on a case by case basis. It strikes to me that it would make a lot more sense if you want to if you want to treat the railroads and sort of a fair way to give them, you know, push that out there, knowing that theyre not going to be able to meet the 2015, but still keeping the sense of urgency and then feet to the fire. The key, though, senator, its still critically important that you give us the authority that we need for provisional certification because, otherwise, we cant approve an Implementation Plan that doesnt fully meet the deadline. We cant approve partial deployment, and so the Industry Needs its for us to is have the appropriate flexibility to work with them on the challenges that theyre facing while still advancing as much of the system as possible as quickly as possible. It would save lives on metro north. You know, so its critical that we have the tools that we need to properly manage deployment. I think the legislation also has the provisional certification that you talked about as well. I mean, its fwot some flexibility, but it also has the deadline attached to it. It just seems like a better approach. We certainly would be willing to, you know, to work with you on some Technical Assistance to try and strike the right balance here. Quickly, because we have a lot of colleagues that say i want to address this to you. This brings both the dot Inspector General and the gao review the program and you reportedly concurred with the ig6 recommendations, but the two j. O. Recommendations remain open, sf the official fmcsa comments were not provided to the gao. Does the fmcsa plan to take action on those recommendations, and could you provide us an update . If not, explain why. Certainly. The compliance safety accountability program, otherwise known as csa, is at its heart a program to improve our overall enforcement and focus on the highest risk carriers with our limited resources. It really sdl provide carriers as well, an opportunity to look at their own performance and improve before we even need to get there. In fact, theyre showing high risk behavior. That being said. Im sorry you dont have a copy of that. They received our response last month, and there are certainly aspects of the gao analysis that we are making full use of. The core component that we disagreed with really relates to a methodology they propose that isolates the csa analysis to a very small group of carriers, only the largest ones. While a large carrier has a Significant Impact on crash activity across our country, smaller carriers impact about half of those fatalities and crashes. We are utilizing the recommendations of both to improve the csa program, the underlying Data Analysis and accessibility to that data. Thank you. Its received some federal funding in the past, but now 125 people have died in two decades on one highway. Thats a twolane highway in southern minnesota. A lot of it because of freight that should be on a fourlane highway. Some of it because we simply dont have enough rail in this country and its not safe enough, and so in minnesota thanks to the good fortune of our neighbors in north dakota where theyre producing oil and natural gas, it has put a strain on our rail system and a lot of our ag products are having a hard time finding rail and we need to upgrade everything we have as far as im concerned because if were going to actually be this export economy that we want to be, we need to have a Transportation System thats up to the task. Fimsa recently set its proposed rule for railcar standards to omb for review. I know your agency is working diligently to finalize a rule. Its a complex task. Can you tell me when the final rule will be completed . I cannot tell you when the final rule will be completed. I can tell you what the process is. The process that goes over i kind of know the process. Im just wondering the timeline for when it will be done. Senator, were working very hard to get the rule out as soon as humanly possible. Its a First Priority for secretary fox and for me. We are working as hard as we can to get the rule out as soon as possible. There are 28,00011 railcars that are designed to carry a wide range of products, including hazardous and nonHazardous Materials. Roughly 92,000 are used to move Flammable Liquids and yet only about 14,000 of these are built to the latest Industry Safety standards. Considering the large number of the d. O. T. 111s in the fleet is fimsa considering different rules on what product is being shipped and would such an approach enable fimsa and the industry to better apply resources and get the quickest safety improvements . Well, the rule that we discussed earlier includes not just tank cars. Its a comprehensive approach to rail safety, and included in that rule are issues related to the existing and the new tank cars, so i cant go into the details of whats in that rule, but we are taking comprehensive approach to deal both with prevention, mitigation, and response to crude by rail incidents. As you know, weve had one in minnesota, one in north dakota. Last months canada Transportation Safety board announced that all older tank cars used for carrying crude must be phased out by may of 2017. How is fimsa approaching the issue of whether to phase out older tank cars and has canadas action increased pressure to include a phaseout requirement as part of the rule making . I can tell you that were working very closely with canada. We are talking to them on a weekly basis about their action and coordinating to the extent we can. Actions here with them as well. We applaud their movement to remove 111 tank cars in three years time. Secretary fox has already said that those cars should be removed from crude oil service or retro fitted. Canada has the advantage of being able to say in a public forum that they can remove those cars from service in three years because we have a pending rule making under the existing. The requirements here in the United States we cannot say anything comparable on the record until it goes through the rule making process. We know that the landscape of freight rail has changed dramatically. Transportation reauthorizes authorization bill would be an opportunity to update some of the rules and standards that govern the freight Rail Industry. How has the increase in freight rail traffic over the past few years changed how this committee should view rail safety and what do you think of the most important issues are that we could address in that bill . Well, thank you, senator. I mean, i think its first important to note that by many respects rail is, in fact, the safest means of moving both people and goods. When you compare it to the other transportation modes under most measurements, most circumstances, were the most safe transportation mode. Again, statistically, the industry is at an alltime best. A part of a decades long Continuous Improvement in rail safety to record low numbers of accidents, injuries, fatalities. Theres no question that the change of products being hauled and particularly with these hazardous Flammable Materials that its forcing us to really safety, you know, take a fresh look, a new look at everything we think we have known about safety. Even though we have historically been very, very good and continue to get better. Particularly when it comes to the products. We have to be near perfect. As administrator quarterman, its a matter of taking a look from everything from the tank car, you know, to understanding the product, ensuring proper classification, you know, those things that weve put into place with the industry through the voluntary agreement are the appropriate step to be taken using the routing protocol using the factors through the computer model ensure we are using the most safe and secure route. Hardining the aspects. Additional both by the industry and our inspector resources. Ensuring a higher level of health to the equipment, you know, and continuing on. Thank you very much. Thank you, senator klobuchar. Senator blunt. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I was confused by your answer on positive trade control. Do you have the authority to extend the deadline or not . No, we do not. Only congress can extend the deadline. Thats what i thought. You dont have any authority there are no provisions that you have that allow you to do a provisional certification . Not at all, senator. We believe its critical that we be granted that authority so we can manage this in a rational manner. Does it mean you dont want a deadline . The bill that senator thune and i are sponsoring sets a new deadline of 2018 and gives you provisional abilities to implement between now and then. What more do you . I think the key is ensuring we have the appropriate flexibility that we need with the provisional certification, the ability to effectively manage the Implementation Plans on each railroad. I would have to take a look at how your legislation does or does not address that. So like i say, through Technical Assistance, we would be happy to work with you. Since you dont any in the compliance by 2015 by the commuter lines is possible, do you . I dont believe there is a railroad in this country that will achieve full deployment by 2015. Partial deployment could be possible. The one exception might be metro north in california. Theres a fighting chance they can reach their 2015 deadline. Well see. But there certainly not another railroad in this country that can fully deploy by the 2015 deadline. Since you dont think that anybody can comply with the 2015. I dont think anybody can comply with the 2015 deadline, i like you to look at our legislation and give us advice how you think it can be improved. We dont want to blow by the deadline as if its not there. Surely its not the right thing to do. Ill continue to have some concerns about provisional compliance for the freight line particularly they put them in a competitive disadvantage. Right. It does the opposite, senator. I think thats an important point. I saw your question to the secretary, and were concerned with the issue, too. Two things, one, i think the final rule amendments that are in executive clearance right now are going to partially address those concerns, and then the approach for provisional certification would fully address those concerns. We agree that this is about advancing safety not putting somebody who has been out in front on deployment doing all the right things in a competitive disadvantage. If they have hiccups during early deployment it ends up gumming up their capacity. I think, also, an early deployment can create test cases where we see the problems are, what can be done better. Precisely. Precisely. Thats what provisional certification gives us the flexibility to do. If you have a chance to look at the new tower signing agreements that appear to be there between the fcc and the travel councils . We think its a good first step. Theres clearly more work that needs to be done, but we think that this is significant movement. But i would also note that our proposal in grow america gives the authority a little more formal seat at the table in working with the fcc. So, again, we would urge, you know, the adoption of those provisions that we have. We think it can help everybody work through the tower problem with the fcc. Of the 10,000 towers that still need to be improved, what is your estimate how quickly the first ones may be improved by the fcc . Ill have to get back to you on the record on that. I think certainly we continue to make sure that fcc is aware of the sense of urgency. I believe they are. I know, the industry, i think, was at least reasonablily pleased with the recent movement by fcc. So well keep pressing on the issue. When senator warren was the chairman, we introduced legislation regarding sleep apnea. Any action on intrusive sleep apnea be only taken on official rule making. It was signed into law. Im told your trainers are still referring to doctors even though there is no rule that has been promulgated yet do you know if thats true or not . Senator, first and foremost, we absolutely are abiding by the mandate of congress. Any change to the current medical guidance regarding sleep apnea would be done through rule making. That being said, what initiated much of the concern, i think, that resulted in that law was that we were working in ing to the information on the long medical form that medical examiners that administrate the d. O. T. Physical for Truck Drivers and bus drivers follow and have followed for years. The same information that they have always had is still in the long form. That has not changed. In fact, the training that medical examiners, the curriculum that medical examiners are required to follow now that we have a registry of certify medical examiners in place follows the same provisions that have always been there. So there has been no change. I assure you. Lets follow up on that. We will. And my office and maybe the committee and be sure what we understand what no change means. I think the legislation would not very complicated and very specific in what it required. And im not sure were in compliance with what the law now says. Lets be sure we are. Well follow up. Ill tell you for sure medical examiners are expected when they examine a trucker or bus driver to determine if they meet the physical qualifications for holding a commercial drivers license they include a full examination of chronic conditions and conditions that could affect the drivers ability to be alert at all times conscious behind the wheel. Among those conditions they have always looked at is breathing disorders and pull umm mare disorders that it falls into. Are you in the process of prum l gaiting new rules on that . We are not. We will follow up. As you district directed and meet with your staff to make sure theres a clear sense that the law you passed last year as well as a very visible and transparent process. The requirements havent changed one bit. Lets be sure were in compliance with the law. Absolutely. Yes, sir. Thank you, senator bloom. Senator fischer. Thank you for being here. Administrator quartman, as you know the Rail Industry worked with a number of agencies in coming to an ingredient. It was a voluntary agreement on the speed reduction standards that you recently came up with. Does it support the agreement . Senator rischer, the secretary put together a very, i think, very aggressive plan, an action plan. The administrators who are sitting here with me today, administrators pharaoh, myself were there with the secretary and the deep tear secretary. We talked to petroleum and the railroad industries about what immediate actions could they take while we do our comprehensive rule making process to improve safety. One of the items they put on the table was to restrict the speed. It is very important element. So we are supportive they have gone forward to do that with respect to certain trains. Part of that agreement was Community Relations emergency response, but specifically to the speed reductions. In working voluntarily with agencies, i think thats a good way for industry to operate. I think its a good way for the agencies to operate. My question to you, again, do you support that . Do you support the agencys coming with industry with private industry and trying to reach these voluntary agreements instead of mandate from the top down always . I absolutely support industries coming forward. We think that compliance with regulations is not enough