Transcripts For CSPAN3 Jewish Refugees On The St. Louis 20170715

The painful reality is the hostility to jews because they were jewish existed outside of nazi germany at the time. Today we honor the memory of those who perished in the holocaust by hearing about the journey of the st. Louis and we also honor their memory by ensuring such horrors do not continue today. Unfortunately, media reports abound with devastating images of the chemical bombing in syria. Refugees fleeing from the chemical war in syria weighs heavy on many minds. The holocaust itself and contemporary stressors underscore my gratitude to have these doctors here to discuss the journey of the st. Louis, a german transatlantic liner full of mostly jewish refugees fleeing from the nazi regime. After some passengers were denied in cuba, they sailed here and asked to come to the u. S. But the u. S. It did not heed their calls. Hundreds of the passengers were still killed by the end of world war ii. Our first speaker has been an archivist at the United States Holocaust Museum for 14 years working with survivors, liberators and historians to donate to and access to the museums vast holdings. She has a ba in history in american that is and a ma and phd in American History from george mason university. Her focus is governmentsponsored rescue attempts related to the holocaust and she is working as a historian for the museums upcoming transition upcoming exhibition. Our second speaker, chief of the branch of Holocaust Survivors and Research Center at the United States Holocaust Memorial museum. Previously a professor of contemporary history at the university of paris, she works for the two french commissions for compensation to jewish victims. She is the author of books and publications and more than 20 articles related to the holocaust. Thank you so much for having us this morning. Im going to provide the context for the refugee crisis in the 1930s, how the factors that influence u. S. Policy and the way that u. S. Policy changed as events in your changed. A refugee crisis never comes out of the blue and american reaction to it does not either. It is always complicated and in the exhibit we are working on that will of the next spring, we are trying to bring visitors back to the period so they are not judging with hindsight but understanding the complicated factors that led to american reaction during that period. The u. S. Was only involved in world war i for a short time and that brief interaction with europe of that full experience and the failures of the versailles treaty and the failed league of nations, it experience it convinced americans we had done better we stayed on our side of the atlantic. The country has become increasingly isolationist in the late 1920s. We pared down the military and world war i is considered a mistake the United States should have avoided. The country is still segregated, americans are very concerned about race and genetics. Many americans except eugenic science as a truth still and believe some races are genetically superior over others. The red scares in the 1920s and 30s exacerbate a feeling that jews are linked with communism. This is a time of racial strife and rate antisemitism and and pacifism. After world war i, a rise in antisemitism leads to the johnson act in 1934. 1924. This ended the idea of immigrants arriving at ellis island. From now on, there are numerical limit to the number of refugees allowed to come into this country. It is limited to 150,000 people per year. In 1927, millions of people came in in a single year and now it is limited to 150,000. Due to the racial theories i mentioned, countries outside the western hemisphere have quotas. For people born in those countries any given year, they are called National Origin quotas. The quota breaks down northern, western and eastern europe. 60 of the quota sought were people born in Great Britain or ireland and there are far fewer immigration opportunities for people who are in southern and eastern europe, people who are considered racially, religiously, economically undesirable. About 100 people per year and many are barred by racial grounds. You can be at this point too brown to enter the United States and become an immigrant. The quotas are maximum and not goals. Crucial in understanding the american responses to the holocaust, the state department decides in your country whether you can qualify for an immigration visa to the United States. You are not coming to ellis island and presenting your papers, youre doing all that in europe. Crucially also, the United States has no refugee policy. We only have an immigration policy so people fleeing racial and religious persecution have to go through the same deliberate immigrations steps as anyone else. In 1929, the stock market crashes. The u. S. And a lot of the world defends into an economic depression and as a result of that president Herbert Hoover issues and instruction to the state department to deny immigration visas to anyone who would likely become a public charge. Anyone who they perceive would at any point need any sort of assistance from the United States once they immigrated. So if you did not have an indefinite stream of income, you are no longer eligible for a visa. Immigration numbers drop significantly. In march 1933, roosevelt takes the oath of office and he promises his countrymen in his inauguration speech that the only thing they have to fear is fear it self. For americans looking around at that time, that will ring hollow. 25 unemployment, great racial strife in this country, seeing a europe descending into chaos they want no part of. Roosevelt is also more concerned about the economic depression than he is about germany. In 1937, a new economic recession brings unemployment back up to 90 , 19 , even after the new deal program. Spanish civil war, italian invasion of ethiopia, all of this tells americans we are right to stay on our side of the atlantic and not get involved in issues overseas. Before thousands of people seeking refuge, the United States still represented a land of freedom and opportunity and a land free of the persecutions of a new at home. 90,000 germans, mostly jews, remained on the waiting list to denigrate into the United States in 1934 list to immigrate into the United States in 1934. The quotas are very far from being filled. In 1933 and 1934, the first full quota year after the nazis take power in germany, a little more than 4000 visas are issued to germans to come to the United States out of a possible 25,950. We can talk about what is required to enter the ninth date and whether or not we would consider that extreme betting. Extreme vetting. A lot of times people ask why dont jews and just leave, and it was difficult is the answer. They had to show passports, show they were good citizens, had letters attesting their moral character, had to pass a medical exam and had to prove they did not become a financial burden which is very difficult because of the nazis established severe taxes on anyone who wanted to immigrate, stripping you of your wealth and he wanted to prove to the country wanted to immigrate to that you are wealthy enough to make it in a new land. All of these had Expiration Date so if youre paperwork did not line up, there are serious ramifications for you. The prominent american journalist Dorothy Thomas wrote a fantastic commentary on the humanitarian of our times that for thousands of people a piece of paper with a stamp on it is the difference between life and death. It is clear by 1938, life in germany is becoming unbearable for jews. Austria, an additional 250,000 people are brought under the rule of the third reich. 27,370 people can immigrate each year to the United States. Roosevelt called an International Conference hoping for an International Solution to this international problem. 32 nations attend but most say in very polite diplomatic language that they do not have a jewish problem in their country and they have no desire to import a jewish problem into their country. On november 9 and 10th 1938, in response to a minor diplomat in paris, the nazis release a coordinated terror attack in germany that we know as kristallnacht. Hundreds of thousands of men and voice are arrested and sent to camps. Kristallnacht is the longest sustained News Coverage about the jews in america. It is a big deal in the United States as you can see, this is from midnovember, nazis warn jews will be wiped out in less evacuated by democracies. Roosevelt extends the permission for people who are here on visitors visas so that they do not have to go back to germany. That brings about 1215,000 people here. Americans are decidedly conflicted about the new refugee crisis. The situation in europe is clearly getting worse for jews but most americans are not sure they want to be a solution to the problem. There are two polls right after kristallnacht they get to american response. 94 of americans disapprove of nazi and only a small amount want to bring jews to the country. There is a disconnect between sympathy for the victims and the willingness for americans to do something about it. Thousands and joined the waiting list to immigrate to the u. S. Germany has the secondlargest quota of any nation in the world and in 1939, it is entirely filled purely and that quota is entirely filled. The state department at this point is maxing out the quota for germans and austrians, most of whom are jewish at this time. The work had not even begun yet and people elsewhere are getting the war had not the war has not even begun yet. For instance, in romania the waiting list to come to the United States was 43 years long. Only 9 of americans said they would open the door to refugees. Americans are united by larry by very little except for their desire to decrease immigration to america. Congress changes Immigration Law but even members of roosevelt on party are against widening the quotas. Robert reynolds, a democrat from North Carolina wrote to his fellow citizens in march 1939 that all the nations of impoverished europe wish to dont there political and economic minorities upon us. Write to your congressman to put legislation on the statute books that will shut off immigration during this period of duress among our people and to eject from our country the alien and the criminal. Im going to continue my review of the u. S. And jewish refugees when deon speaks on the st. Louis, you will understand the context. Newspapers reporting europe is on the verge of war and when were breaks out, 90 of americans want to stay neutral. One of reynolds refrains, even the idea of bringing german refugee children to the u. S. Was that americas children are americas problem, your children are europes problem. Europes children are europes problem. In the first months of world war ii, some europeans called the phony work, theres not a lot of fighting after the british and the french evacuated under. Evacuate dunkirk. When germany invades the netherlands and france, a lot of americans are afraid. Images of adolf hitler standing on top of the eiffel tower is a scary thing for americans and they start to realize we might get dragged into this work against our will into this war against our will. Americans begin to realize we are vulnerable too. There might be a column of spies and solid tumors and saboteurs wanting to bring us down from the inside. 93 of americans believe nazi germany has begun to put sleeper agents in the u. S. Or they are not sure. The fbi begins to receive thousands of tips per day from people who suspect their neighbors by the lies. Magazines have articles like this, hitlers sillies by hitlers slave spies. By this point in time, if you were a refugee, the ship packet the ship ticket is the most important part about getting out of europe. The work has increased regulation from the ninth date and made it more difficult from the United States and it makes it more difficult for you to get out. The ship ticket becomes the most difficult thing. There has been research about jews about ships carrying jewish refugees, we found more than 750 ships carrying more than 71,000 self identify jewish refugees arrived in new york harbor. There is a perception among the public that the st. Louis is the only ship sailing. In reality the st. Louis is an anomaly. There are people making it through this complicated system despite all the barriers. Once war begins, passenger ships get removed from service. Where 10 ships a week are arriving in new york carrying refugees by 1939, by 1941, it is down to two. You have to physically escape nazi territory by a very expensive ship ticket got across the atlantic through a submarine warfare zone, and navigate the state department system. By 1940, the state department cancels the at the end of 1941, june, world war ii is a nearly two years old and the United States is not involved. The country has a peacetime draft, the renewal of the peacetime draft in september 1941 passes by one vote. It shows you through this period the u. S. Is still very isolationist. On january on june 22, 1941, the nazi invasion the soviet union and begin the mass murder of the jews. The state department construct the consulates that no pieces should be issued to anyone in nazi occupied territory. We ordered the nazis to close all of their consulates here fearing there are spies among them. In october 1941, the nazis make immigration illegal from their territory. Calculations are difficult for a number of regions number of reasons including that refugee is not a fixed category at the time. 280,000 refugees come to the United States between 1933 and 1935. We have a terrible record in less you compare it to the rest of the world. Despite everything that i just said, we bring in more refugees than any other country in the world during this period. Thank you very much. Like rebecca said, it was very hard to get all the papers to board the ship and all the companies at that time, whether they were german or from the u. K. Or france, they basically to get bandage and increase to the prices they basically took advantage and increase in the prices of the ticket. When the st. Louis passengers got all the documents they needed they needed to have cupid document to immigrate to cuba. What they needed was a permit. They had landing permits, these documents were actually told by the consulate of the cuban consulate in germany and we are talking about Legal Immigration of families but those documents were sold by the cuban consulate and behind the cuban consulate there was some sort of traffic organized by the secretary of immigration in cuba. There is no need to remember his name because his name is not important except that it tells you more about this letter. With the st. Louis sales, its journey is very short. It is only a month in history that is very emblematic of what happened at that time. All the refugees and all the jews on those boats, the st. Louis carried to 95 jews on board. Most of the companies on time at that time had a lot of jews on board when they could escape europe. After the kristallnacht, this is the largest immigration, over 50 of jewish immigration. It was very complicated to get on any boat at that time and all the countries that attended the conference in 1938 basically closed their doors officially to the refugees says the only countries that remains possibly work ebay shanghai. Were cuba and shanghai. When the st. Louis left hamburg in may 1939, we are talking about families on the st. Louis, we are talking about Legal Immigration. You have families on board of the st. Louis, the youngest passenger was born in january 1939, just a few months old, and and the oldest passenger was born in the 1880s so we are talking about Legal Immigration of people who left everything behind. They could not take much with them. Cameras, and this is not just an anecdote, this is the reason we have so many photographs of the st. Louis passengers on board. Byking at this picture, boarding the ship, those people were jumping into a different world. They had experienced persecution since 1933 so they cannot work, they cannot use the phone booth, they cannot go to a Swimming Pool. By boarding the st. Louis, it was a boat of luxury one of the , best beautiful but at that time. Almost like the titanic. What is important for the passengers is some of them were arrested during kristallnacht , some of the men, and they were released on the condition that he would never return to germany. So, you can imagine the atmosphere on the st. Louis. It wasnt very easy to relax, but thanks to the captain and his crew, the passengers were going to be able to relax until they arrived in cuba. The reason why they were able to captain ecause the i would describe him as a romantic german of the 19th century. I,fought during world war spoke seven languages and he loved germany. He really loves german culture and he hated what the not these were doing to his country to the country. He gathered the crew and said, we have more than 90 95 jews on board for this journey. It was out of question to implement the nazi law against the jews, so he said he we will treat the passengers like any of the other passengers on the cruise. And if anyone had a problem with this they could leave. None of the crew members disembarked. The passengers are able to enjoy the journey on the st. Louis. Some of them were arrested during the kristallnacht and were in concentration camps. This one for example, mr. Lem berg was arrested and he actually has his prisoners card. He was doing his task to enjoy the journey. This photograph is the photograph of another passenger posing with his two sons, and when the st. Louis returned to europe, he ended up in buc henwald and was released after the war. He eventually made it to the United States in 1941. Soak as you can imagine so, as you can imagine people were really trying to make their best of the journey. There are about 200 children on the st. Louis and i really like this photograph with the Swimming Pool because the youngest children probably did not even know how to swim. This is because jews could not go to Swimming Pools in germany. When the st. Louis arrives in havana, this is where everything gets more complicated. Again, bear in mind, this is Legal Immigration, they had all of their documents to disembark in cuba, but they could not because there was a medical crisis. President , federico l aredo bru, whose name is not really remembered by historians, not really famous he has difficulty establishing his government. The secretary of immigration made a lot of money by selling permits to refugees and passengers who wanted to go to cuba. His secretary of immigration made two mistakes. One, was not sharing his money with the president and the second was that he was the audit by the main opponent of the president fulgencio batista. ,so, the st. Louis passengers could not disembark and they did not know anything about the situation in cuba. In order to reestablish his president cuban promulgated a degree. This has nothing to do with the st. Louis passengers, it has to it had to do he was trying to put an end to the traffic of landing permits. So he put an end to ilLegal Immigration in cuba. As the situation in cuba is getting more complicated, basically no one told the passengers anything about why they could not disembark. They could only sheer words nana meeting tomorrow. Meaning tomorrow. Meaning that they could get off the ship tomorrow. They do not understand because they could legally disembarked in cuba. At this point, the American Jewish joint committee and its head in the u. S. , he knows a lot about the cuban political theme, he tries to negotiate with the cuban authorities but he misunderstands the situation and he thinks it is just a money question. So, he was trying to bargain with the cuban authorities but the cuban president was really determine to put an end to the traffic. Also, she is involved in helping the refugees but it is to no avail. On the righthand side is the photograph of the captain of the ship, who also helped by putting on civilian clothes and trying to negotiate with the cuban authorities as well. He was considering the passengers as his passengers and trying to do the best that he could to help them. The passengers are on the boat, they are looking at havana. For german jews, they have never seen palm trees, they have never and theretic fruit, were boats which were surrounding the st. Louis, rented by family members of the passengers already in cuba. But no one could disembark. The st. Louis receives the order to leave the cuban water on june 2 and because more than 734 people on the st. Louis have registered on the american quota list mentioned, cuba is just a waiting place for them. That meant that the moment their number came up, it could be a question of days, weeks, months or years, but cuba would not be the final destination for 734 passengers are of 937. So, the captain of the st. Louis decided to sell along the shore of the United States sail along the shore of the United States. And this is where it becomes an american story. There were many responses, many different levels. Rebecca mentioned the response from that United States government. There was also responses from the newspapers and the american citizens as well. The st. Louis was very well known, everyone purported about by the american newspapers. Lots of news was published on the first page between may 28 pageune 28, on the front of 26 newspapers across 26 20 states. Over 115 times. All of the newspapers on the east coast and the west coast talked about the st. Louis. It mostly produces factual information from the Associated Press and they are not very critical about what is going on but they actually report. The only article that is somehow critical was published by the Washington Post and it says Something Like there are a lot of refuge for birds and nature in the United States but there , is no refuge for 907 refugees. This is the response and the newspapers are covering the story and it becomes a symbol in 1939. There is an interesting response from the americans is an as american citizens as well. At the National Archives you can find 233 letters sent by american citizens, jewish and nonjewish, to roosevelt to the , state department and to roosevelts wife begging the government to let them in, the moment the st. Louis refugees are refused in cuba, their status changes from legal immigrants to refugees without moving an inch. All those letters and telegrams use a different reasons, it could be religious reasons, historical reasons, this is a country of immigration. There are also letters from teenagers and one moving letter from a 14yearold girl who said i do not have good grades at school but i am a human being and i would like you to let them in or let them on an island that belongs to the United States. All those telegrams and letters, very formal letters that we had , had a response from the government with said there was nothing we could do and that it was Immigration Law. The only telegrams that does not receive any response from the government is sent by the committee on board of the st. Louis, the Passengers Committee of the United States to at least Passengers Committee begging the United States to at least accept the women and children, about 400 people. This telegram did not receive any response. The st. Louis was supposed to go back to europe with american passengers on a cruise to europe but, of course, the passengers are going back. You can imagine what the atmosphere is on board at this point. It is not the same atmosphere as of the first journey to cuba and all the newspapers are very much afraid of a mutiny on board. This is not with the captain is afraid of. Hes afraid of suicides on board because a lot of people do not want to go back to germany and others who were already in concentration camps cannot go back to germany. At this point, the negotiations with cuba have failed so it is completely over. So, the American Jewish committee had a representative he had very little time to negotiate with some countries in europe. Those countries are france, belgium, the netherlands and the u. K. And it is difficult for those countries, mostly the germany. Bordering they had already received a lot of refugees across their borders , both legal and illegal. At some point the representative played some sort tells the refugees that some of the countries have accepted the refugees. It wasnt true at the time, but eventually the four countries did accept the refugees. France offered to accept them all but they were saying they would like some other countries to accept them. I am not saying that, because i am not just because i am french. What front did to the passengers afterwards, there was nothing to be proud of. The st. Louis goes to antwerp and from antwerp the passengers are actually thats first in they are actually dispersed in four countries. This is a photograph of the captain and his wife. On the letter on the side you can see for the cap chain a letter thanking him for his involvement in the st. Louis. Sorry the cap tape wrote to mauriceresentative worrie troper to thank him for his work on the st. Louis. There were a lot of negotiations. And when the st. Louis passengers arrived in europe, they went to those four countries. 1939, very june close to the war. They were in those countries without any legal documentation. The only legal documentation they had was to go to cuba. Helped byeeded to be the jewish organizations who helps to take care of them. But, when the war broke out, those passengers who were refugees were in the same position as other refugees who crossed the border into those countries. France, belgium, and poland. Refugees who could have been free in cuba ended up in some concentration camps or internment camps. One of them was in the south of france, and the regime there was so harsh that some consider it a concentration camp and not an internment camp. Here is one of the passengers who was on the st. Louis and an adept in one of those several internment camps. Another one ended up in several internment camps in france as well. One of them was in the south of france. He was somehow lucky enough to make it to the u. S. In november 1941 but not all the passengers were that lucky. Here you have two beautiful photographs of a lady she is , on the lefthand side, you can see her talking to other passengers on the st. Louis and you can see the whole family, they ended up in france and the children were actually separated. You can view her in one of the childrens homes in france. Later on she was arrested and shwitzed josh with au in 1942 and murdered. 239 passengers on the st. Louis parish during the holocaust perished during the holocaust. The u. S. Was the final destination of 734 of the 900 passengers on the st. Louis. But when they returned to germany, the st. Louis was bombed by the air force and almost completely destroyed. The st. Louis was owned by the company which was eventually nationalized by the germans in the captain was not too much in 1934. Trouble after the work and he war he was awarded in 1957 i west germany for his help in the st. Louis story. Two years before he passed away in 1993 he was post immensely post humorously honored by vashem. Theres also not from the website. If you want to know more about the st. Louis, there are many pages on our website. It is not only the story of the st. Louis, but the fate of some of the passengers. We had a project at the museum, my colleagues and i trekked down tracked down the passengers of the st. Louis. We received the amazing collection at the museum in 2000 and in 20 2007, we can go further and traced on their fate. Thank you. Any questions for our speakers . I have been spellbound by all that i have heard. I think the speaker i thank the speakers for coming in and providing this presentation an opportunity to learn. I guess as i was listening i kept thinking about how some would say history repeats itself and we very much are living in times which reminded me so much of what i just heard. Is whatobvious question lessons, if any, our speaker would suggest the leaders of this country and its people might learn from this past experience . That is a very difficult question because it is hard to pull lessons the more you drill down into the specifics of things, the more you recognize the difference between now and then but this history is really in theto me, immigration United States has always been challenged by people economic concerns, National Security council turn, possibly known or unknown races in. You hear that rhetoric today, too. If someone is very concerned about what happened in the 1930s, they can think about what our reaction is today when we hear the same rhetoric. Thank you. I would like to ask a question. Im not sure, i think you said the u. S. Still has no refugee policy . Quite the United States had no refugee policy until after world war ii. We have and do have a refugee policy now. That is one of the main differences between now and then is it there is a system supposedly to deal with people who are being persecuted for racial and religious reasons and back then you had to go through the same immigration system. There was no other line to get into. Thank you. Do you understand the refugee policy to have changed the fundamental balancing of interests . That is to say it seems nations , are always thinking about what is a limit and sometimes they are thinking about it for reasons that some of that may think are legitimate and other time for reasons that go to animus and other things that do not reach our angels. Does that elevate the idea of humanity and the persecution that they face . Or whether the calculus remains like the earlier prerefugee times . Obviously u. S. Policy u. S. Refugee policy changes over time. And the limits change. Historically, u. S. Refugee policy and concern writ large has always been tied to national goals. We are much more likely to take refugees when there is another reason, anticommunism or people who have helped us fight a war. There is usually another reason for it rather than strict humanitarian goals and so that has historically been a challenge even within a refugee policy but you are right, it is always about limits. Thank you for your presentation. It was very fascinating. What was the general feeling about jews in the u. S. At that time and how wellorganized was or wasnt the community and what were they doing in terms of advocacy around these issues . Franklin roosevelt historically complained there was no jewish pope and he wished there would be one. Because, the Jewish Community split in a lot of ways. There is a kind of German Jewish population that had historically been here for much longer than recent immigrants from eastern europe, who were more socialist, communist, labor organizers as opposed to the old school, wealthier German Jewish population. So there was a split in tactics, how they are addressing the threat of nazism. Were both in favor of helping refugees, but their tactics differed. Sorry, i forgot the first part of your question. Was there a level of animus . Antisemitism is booming in the 1930s and 1920s. It is boosted by a Catholic Priest with a nationalized radio show who railed about the jews and money and was very popular. At one point during the war, jews are seen as one of the thetest, not threats to nation by people we should be concerned about watching. Roosevelt is frequently criticized for being too projewish. They said that his name was enfeld orros rosenvelt and that he was trying to make his name sound is jewish. The fear that he has the jewish advisers. The secretary of labor goes out on a limb to advocate for increased immigration and she felt like she could advocate for this and she is accused immediately of being secretly jewish. That that is the only reason she might want to help people. So, we still have a lot of hotel and golf club and other things that were gentiles only. Thank you. One more followup, the commission, we have been hearing concerns about antisemitism and the rise of hate crimes in the community. I realize that this may not be in your bailiwick, but i was wondering if the museum has in addressing these concerns . We have a division that is working on contemporary antisemitism, so we are very much aware of this. We follow this not only in the u. S. , but also around the world. We know about antisemitic propaganda, we know what type of speech it is, we take that quite seriously and follow it by quite closely. I just wanted to thank you because that was fascinating. I agree with the vice chair that history piece itself and you have to be alert for that. There is also the equal and that people are always fighting the last war. Our best defense about making mistakes is Greater Knowledge of history and that is why i thank you. Any more questions . To my fellow commissioners, thank you for the outstanding presentation and continuing to make history alive for us. Thank you for coming and joining us today. I would also like to thank our staff. Was instrumental inus, and our entire team their efforts to make this presentation possible. It was very moving and very helpful to us. And if there are no further items, i now adjourn the meeting of the commission at 11 55 a. M. Thank you. Thank you. This weekend, on American History tv on cspan3, tonight at 8 p. M. Eastern, Appalachian State university browning discusses Union General mcclellans attempt to take the capital of richmond. Had not done army a lot of research about what the peninsula looks like and what marching along with look like would be like. He was dead set on making sure that he would not can eat to tocoln would not concede lincoln. It turned out to be perhaps the worst possible place to launches the campaign. On sunday, the 125th anniversary of the salem witch trials. A Book Discussion on the witchhunt. We know so much about the village, about the pleas of innocence, because she took it all down. He took it all down. It reads like a plague. She said this, he says that, oh, we could not hear. The girls were flailing around. All those descriptions come from him because he is contributing from his shorthand. At 8 p. M. , former boston globe journalist on his book the roads to kamala. Camelot. Ad to in 1960, it was the first time i had heard the word charisma. It was because he had it. Richard nixon did not have a. Lbj did not have it. Kennedy had charisma, and it could have possibly tipped the balance in some peoples minds. And he was smart as hell to. O. Next, history and an author tj stiles, looks at the civil war experiences of jesse james. As the 16yearold jesse james