Transcripts For CSPAN3 History Bookshelf 20141011

They are doing. I want to thank my publisher and my editor is here. [applause] now, what i want to mainly talk about today is some of the stories that are in the book. , and arizona, a new law came into effect that banned ethnic studies. The conservatives took over the review of the board of the estate board of change the rules so that and they change the curriculum, so slaver is no longer mentioned. They changed it so no longer would there be references to the of the Civil Rights Movement read the tea party at a meeting with the governor of tennessee where they wanted to change the curriculum. These questions that we think are just questions of history really are debate. They are about different perspectives on how we understand how this country has evolved, and who has been on what side of particular kinds of questions. Usually with historical debate often they are about contemporary issues. The civiltalk about, rights was really about states rights, which is not true, they are talking about the politics of the day and an argument that states rights is what should be governing the country as opposed to obama. Issuesg kind of way the that i am talking about in the to be located in history. In many ways they are tied in to the issues were dealing with today. What i wanted to do was give a context for trying to understand , and to realize what the significance of having african americans, black americans in the white house and a black american family. Traveled onlyas i around the United States but around the world, because what much of what i do is international. To brazil and south korea, and england, people were asking what is up with obama . Can he win the election . Will you survive. What does it mean to have a black person in the white house . It person asked why does call the white house . I could just say look at it, why people owned it. That initially started some of mine getting to look at the history of this building itself. It is an iconic representation ofwhat has been argued american democracy. Within that body, within that structure, within the institution itself i argued it has carried these contradictions around race throughout American History from the construction of it all the way barack obama, Michelle Obama coming to live there. Research, to do this initially i was like let me find a book, and there was nothing there. Or there was little. It was better. When there was a hold i would try to fill it. Let me do a book. But hundred 50 pages. 150 pages. The book grew to 550 pages. The book began to write itself. As writers you start writing your ideas, but then the book starts to take shape and it starts to pull you in directions. That is what happened with this book. There was one particular transformation that happened from my early conception through what ended up being a finished product. That is the narrative of individuals who have been in and around the white house. Each chapter opens with an extended story about a particular individual whose narrative captures and embodies that particular era. What i wanted to do was give a voice and life to these individuals, all of us who grew up learning americas history, black history we are never taught about. We are never exposed to. These are individuals who were critical in helping to understand how the contradictions around race and the white house existed. ,he opening lines of the book more than a quarter of u. S. President s owned slaves. And at least eight of those president s had slaves while they were president , and those slaves existed in the white house. We were never taught this. , shepardsonht about and George Washington and the work they did around building democracy. We were never told these other side of the story. We knew George Washington had slaves. We knew Thomas Jefferson was getting it on with Sally Hemmings. We have those stories. We didnt have the full stories and context. The evolution of the white house. Part of what i have begun to uncover, all of these remarkable fascinating stories about individuals who came through this process. What i wanted to do was talk bring it upistory, to date, and open it up for questions, comments. The white house itself, the building we now call the white house, didnt exist when the country was first founded. Washington, d. C. Did not exist. Underthe constitution and a specific act of congress in 1790 it was designated that virginia and maryland would see a part of their territory in which the Nations Capital would be built. A 10 year process. They were projecting this would be one of the grandest cities to exist in the world at the time. It would take 10 years to make this happen. Now, part of the reason they said maryland and virginia was these were slave states. Southerners who controlled the politics of the 13 colonies wanted to make sure that the south and slavery in particular was protected in this process. Notion of 10d this years to build the white house and the whole city. Who is going to do the building . George washington initially said he wanted white europeans. They put the call out. There were not a lto g over thee over to the new country and did trees and throw rocks. Success very little recruiting. They turned to who they usually turn to, who built most of the grand bill during this grand buildings, people who were enslaved. We have a great deal of information on the individuals who worked and built washington, d. C. And the white house. We know that there were people who did unSkilled Labor, washington was a jungle. It just trees. Somebody had to cut the trees, drag the mount, build inroads. Dirt, hard work. This was mostly slave labor. There were also Skilled Labor that was carried on by people who were enslaved. We know at least five of the carpenters who built the inside of the white house, tom, harry, john, paul. They were black. They were enslaved. Free blackobably labor involved and what labor. Embodied inlabor is the structures of washington, d. C. And the Capitol Building and the white house. Labor to doon slave that construction. Meanwhile, in this 10 year process while they are building the nations Capitol Building, the issue is where will the president and the rest of the government be . For a short time they were in new york. They moved to philadelphia. Washington and his entire household, including his black slaves all moved to philadelphia. He had two problems in philadelphia. One was that it was the center of the Abolitionist Movement in the country. This is where you have the most amount of free blacks. You had the quakers. They were on it. They had set up the underground railroad. They were doing petitions and lobbying. They were fighting to get rid of slavery paid this is what George Washington comes in with his household of at least nine blacks who were his slaves. The other problem was that in 1780 the Pennsylvania State government had passed the gradual abolition act. It said anybody who came into the state, you stay for more than six months, you could be freed. This was a good deal. Washington apparently did not know this before he moved to the state and realized he had a problem. We have evidence. He wrote letters to his staff saying i have a problem. He tried to get around this because there was initially a loophole in the law that said if a person left within that six month time when they came back six months would start all over. Washington came up with a plan to rotate people in and out of pennsylvania to get around the law. Eventually they closed the loop to read he continued to rotate people in and out. There were protests against washington and others who partitioned him. This is where it gets interesting. One of the individuals who was a slave to washington was a woman judge. Nie she was a young woman who was mostly a slave to Martha Washington. She did household kind of work. Somewhere in 1795 that Martha Washington was planning to give her away as a gift for a wedding to one of her relatives. What this meant was that whatever promise washington said made to their slaves that at some point you would be free when we die, that was going to be out the door. She began to make her plans to get out the door. In 1796 while the washingtons were in the living room having dinner she went out the door. You can see them calling her. Where is the soup . Onie was gone. Contact with the black community. She vanished. As it turned out accidentally she was discovered to be in New Hampshire. The washingtons found out through a complete accident. They decided to go after her because even though as president of the United States, someone who declared himself as antislavery, you would have thought he would have said she is gone, i am representing the country, let it go. They would not let it go. They went after her. They sent an envoy. They were embarrassed. They sent an envoy to meet with her. Back, we will work it out. All is forgiven. We will let you be free. She was well, im free now. I dont see the point of this discussion. Im not going back. That program failed. Then washington decided we will her. A slave catchers after we will kidnap her and bring her back. But she was warned. She never he was able to get away and they never got her back. Be very old. Well into her night well into. Er 80s even though she never went back into slavery she was basically a fugitive. Given the laws of the country at the time. This is a young woman who basically challenges the most. Owerful person in the country this is not some small farmer. This is the president of united who has all the country at his beck and call. She is so driven by her own desire for freedom not to theion she writes about inspiration from haitian revolution which had happened in single slavevery in the country knew about the haitian revolution. She was influenced by the american revolution. Think about it. Enslaved toho were jefferson and these other president s, they were there at every moment when the discussion and debate about american the principles of the country were happening. They had more of an ear and more of and access to those debates and discussions that any other journalists or scholars writing about government at the time. How could they not be influenced . How could they not understand the contradictions much more profoundly . Most of them did not have the opportunity to a skate. She did. She was one of the people is that i will risk it all. The washingtons wanted to punish her and sent her down to mississippi. It couldve been horrible. She said i have got to go. We were never told this story. There was another individual who was enslaved named hercules. Hercules was washingtons cook. One of the top five cooks in the country. He would have been on top chef. He was the man. Hercules was in philadelphia at when thomase as jefferson was there not only with Sally Hemmings but sally brother, who was his coat and trained in france to cook off the hook. Point Sally Hemmings brother buys his freedom. Jefferson says you can buy your freedom but you have to train somebody else to cook for me before i let you go. Which he did. He is in philadelphia the same time as hercules. Hercules had to see this going on. Nie had escaped. Hercules takes all. Washington never catches him. We dont get these stories. Character that evolves. N this is Paul Jennings ,e was enslaved to the madisons to john and Dolly Madison. He was there when they burned down the white house. Every day the british were down the road and they could see the smoke coming mother buildings he was in the white house packing stuff. They took off within an hour before the british actually got to the building and burned it down. We have details about this because he wrote a memoir in 1865. It was the first memoir written by somebody who worked at the white house. He talks about his relationship with Dolly Madison, which is interesting. Died there had been a promise that he would be freed. Dolly did not free him. 1847ok him a while until and actually make enough money to buy his freedom. You talk later about how Dolly Madison was on very hard times because her family abandon her and bring her food and get her money and take care for. The worm had turned. Things that he doesnt talk about is his role slave escape plot in one of thedc, largest during slavery. What the deal was was this was in april, on a saturday night, while there were parties and good times going on in the city. This was a particular week because the city was celebrating the revolutions taking place in europe. The abdication of the french monarchy. The contradiction here, they are celebrating revolution and they have all these slaves. They are celebrating. It is a saturday night. The plan was that individuals would come because on saturday didhe slaves were not not have to be on the plantation. They had some freedom to move around. Of 12uld come in groups down to the docks and get on a boat. The boat would take off in the middle of the night. By the next day when it was realized they were gone they would have such a head start they could not be caught. People started coming down to get on the boat. 7080 people. They are doing fine and then run into a storm. They have to pull to the side. , as itle in washington turns out someone for Different Reasons turns the men. They escaped. The slave owners have realized people were gone and they were putting together the posse. They were going to head north on foot which is how they thought people had escaped until this individual told them no, they got on the boat. And theyinto the boat ended up capturing everybody and bringing them back. Many ended up going deeper into the south into worse conditions. But was not oned the boat. For whatever reason he was never tied to it. It wasnt until after he died that it became clear that he actually had a role in this gigantic escape. These are the individuals during slavery were absolutely fascinating. We were never talked about or told about. Elizabeth hackley, born into slavery. Eventually bought her freedom. Very serendipitous live. She encountered all kinds of historic characters out of the way she lived. The person who she was enslaved then missouri was one of lawyers who argued the dred scott case. It was the 1857 Supreme Court decision that among things said blacks have no rights, whites are bound to respect. It also said slavery is fine. It accelerated the drive towards the civil war. She was connected with that out of being connected. In 1816. To washington she started her own business. She made dresses. One of her first customers was davis, the wife of jefferson davis. 1860, all the senators started resigning because they knew warwick coming. This is the end of the union. We are starting our own country. We are leaving. Jefferson davis also resigned. They were preparing to leave. Vonia comes to elizabeth and says come with us. When we win the war and come back you can come back and be with us in the white house. Says that doesnt sound good plan. I dont support you in the war. No. She says im not going down that road. On she gets introduced to barry lincoln. She becomes her best friend forever. They become tight. She does all the dresses. Sistersd as women, as and they become close. , is lincoln died assassinated, the first person mary looks for is elizabeth. They had lost children. The link is lost a son in the white house. Elizabetht same time lost her son in the war. They bonded at different levels. Lincolne war when mary , have tord times become president become a gazil lionaire, if you didnt come in rich you were going to come out rich. , some of wrote a book which created strains between her and mary lincoln because mary felt there was too much personal information put into the book. The other thing about elizabeth was that beyond her relationship with the lincolns, she also was very instrumental in organizing and mobilizing people who had escapee plantations, from slavery during the war, and who had conjugated in washington, d. C. There were tens of thousands. She organized for their release. After the war she was active in organizing for people who may come out of slavery after that. These are fascinating characters , so when the obamas get the white house and these are the ghosts. Often said that obama stands on the shoulders of lincoln and kennedy and roosevelt. He is standing on the shoulders of these guys. Greatindividuals who risk deal, and sacrificed a great deal in their lives, and their stories need to be known and told. Lots of these stories. Let me open it up some for you guys. Any questions you have, any comments about the work idea and the work i did . Inaudible question] your last comment about obama standing on the shoulders of his ancestors, i think that is inappropriate and for this wonderful discussion. An essay on why she supported obama. One of the things i was touched africans at 12e enslaved and i opened that white house, they were waiting for him. I thought that was one of the most powerful statements that could be made. The other point is the things that you said that we dont know, [inaudible] i had the privilege of going to city hall and having one of the best African Studies departments in the country. [inaudible] that is important to know. Im always encouraging people to let thesefind ways to stories known. Particularly around our families. The stories that seem to be family stories but really tell stories of localities,. Ommunities, nations this is a black history, this is American History. It is part of the American History that has been marginalized or excluded. Resurrection of this is to not say this is something separate from the history, but it gives you the kind of basis to have a broader understanding of how the country has evolved. Yes maam. Of all the people that you discovered in the course of regarding your book, is there anyone in particular. You talked about jones. Anyone in particular that struck you . There were a lot of people who stand out. Writing abouts black politics in black history. Writing this book, a lot of it was a great discovery for me. Finding individuals who were in pockets of history that nobody knew. Somebody knew but were not popularized. Who inas james parker, 1901 was standing in line behind the anarchist getting ready to assassinate william mckinley. Festival,t this world and mckinley is standing there. There are is security behind. Secret service and police. There is a guy standing there with his hand wrapped in a bandaid hiding the gun. And a black guy standing behind him. The secret service and the police are focusing on parker. They are racially profiling this guy. They are not paying attention to the guy with this rap around his hand. Forward, and pow, shoes mckinley once, again. The second bullet hits him in the abdomen. Parker takes the guy down. Knocks him down. Beats the god. Finding the service. They jump into agreed they stopped the god. Die from thenot bullet. He died from poor medical care. Parker saved his life. He stopped a third bullet from being shot. This story spreads like crazy. Verifies the stories of people like booker t. Washington that black people are willing to sacrifice themselves for the country. That they are part of this country they believe in. In september. Ns mckinley lives for another 14 days. The story is spreading. Parker is a hero around the country. People wanted to touch him and take his clothes. All of this. The secret service gets embarrassed. They cantrial happens neither was a black person there. This is in the trial transcript. If you read the atlanta constitution, a conservative paper, they say that is not right. Of course, he is a hero. Washington is going around telling this story. As a result of mckinley being killed roosevelt becomes president. 16 1901, roosevelt finds out booker t. Washington is going to be in town and invites them to the white house for dinner. This is the famous dinnerware the white house goes desert. A black man eating at the white house, and roosevelts daughter and wife were there. A black man eating at the white house with white women becomes unacceptable. There are editorials across the country denouncing roosevelt. Roosevelt backs off. They tried to deny washington was even there. They had issued a press release. You couldnt quite put the genie back in the bottle after that. We have evidence he was there. Nobody black is invited to eat at the white house for another 20 years. If youre going to the white house in that time youre going in the back door if youre coming in at all. October 16, 1901. , theer 17, the next day building is officially designated the white house. This conjunction of these events takes place in the context of eriod ofthe high p [indiscernible] all of these things come together. These things i discovered along the way. My question is, it is not surprising about racial row filing. This is been going on for a long time. Question is what is happening in texas now . I dont know to elaborate on it. But if they have taken history out of the book about blacks, what about the citizens of texas who are black . Disturbing fory a number of reasons. One is that it is the largest book buying state for textbooks. Baseof the publishers their decisions on what happens in texas on what both look like i go out to the rest of the country. If they constrict and rewrite books in texas that is going to have a Ripple Effect across the country. Proposedes that were are being challenged. It is unclear how far they are going to be able to have an impact because it was conservative, including Tea Party Types who dominated the decisionmaking body. Hundreds of changes. This is what we are seeing in arizona, it is spreading around the country. Not just texas and tennessee but other places. We see this around issues of the confederacy. Throughout this out there is a can started effort there is a to argue affort version of the causes of the civil war that are basically incongruent with what really happened. For example, there is this idea of states rights at the center. The southern confederacy was actually opposed to states rights. What happened during construction of being constitution was that states rights and federalism were mixed him but the objection of the south was basically how do we protect slavery . The best way is to make sure that theres a great deal of authority with the states. There is some National Issues that we should also want federal government protection, like the 1850se slave law in the. They were opposed to states rights. They absolutely said if you escape from slavery in mississippi and go to massachusetts, if you committed. Urder you can be extradited massachusetts has the decision to not extradite you. If you escape from slavery you can be brought back area what happened was the states in the north again to pass their own the and not enforce fugitive slave laws. If you read the secessionist doctrines from south carolina, mississippi, all of those states, they specifically name the states they believe are violating federal law. They focus not only on the escaped slave clause, they focus the allowance of abolitionist societies and all of these states. They argue that since labor is protected by the constitution, if you have an Abolitionist Society in New Hampshire or new , they are committing treason. They are going against the constitution. They oppose the state allowing africanamericans to vote. The saudis as anticonstitution. They solve these as anticonstitution. War, maybe slavery had something to do with. Overarching government. It is the politics of the tea party and right wing conservatives who are making the same argument today that the problems in the country are this overreaching Big Government headed by a black man. To put a point on it. You see these kinds of parallels set up evolving. Ideas in a battle over and interpretation and meaning. We cant afford to sit back and think they are not going to have these other arguments out there that ultimately have an impact. How you think about history, how using about the way the country has evolved, what issues have been resolved and not resolved impacts on the political atmosphere and public power. Critical that we fight for an understanding of this process that is inclusive and takes into account these other issues people want to write off. Listenedou ms. L we to Michele Bachmann when she gave a response to obamas state of the union address. This went out to millions. Her response when up to millions. Cnn put this on the air. It went out to millions. She says the Founding Fathers did everything they could to. Nflate it is nonsense. Reinforces and it tells a spective that has [inaudible] you are marksmen me think of the controversy recently over the writings of mark twain. Extremists that want to reject the original transcript to omit the word when his purpose of using it was historically accurate and had all of the negative implications that eight traditionally had and he had used it for that reason. It is amazing to me because a now,f what you are saying it is not so disturbing that they put a message as it was and it went unchallenged. That is disturbing. What they are trying to do is a lack of a better way of doing it, whitewashed history. Thehe evil of slavery and vestiges we live with right now cannot be adequately dealt with. That is most frightening thing. Let us remember this happened at the beginning of congress. They decided they would read the constitution. What they suddenly began to realize as a moment neared was that the original constitution had some problems. For one thing it had the 3 5 clause that said people who held in slavery would be counted as 3 5 of a person to determine how they would appropriate allocations of representation. It had this slave clause. It had clauses in the constitution that allowed for the slave trade for another 20 years. Once the republicans realized that if they read the constitution they are opening up some ugly gates, then they , they are whenever the parts that are embarrassing. How ridiculous is that . If you are trying to educate people about the constitution democracy. Utional the reason they want to do that kind of sensory is the objective is not to educate but to propagate. It is with mans particular agenda that has nothing to do with the people what they need to understand. That is secondary or not a concern at all. It is about we want to make a point that we are constitutional and in a creditor. Were holding the law and everything we are doing this within this and the democrats are outside. That becomes the objective. [inaudible] been s whole issue has [inaudible] the interpretation of history is changed. , you made their mark about Sally Hemmings and jefferson, it was more than that. , a youngman raping child. Pedophile. For years when you talk about the issues of the rape of young africanamericans [inaudible] there was this romanticism. I dont see how living loving it can be when someone owns you and how it can be consensual when someone is yielding power over you. Even that remark over getting it on, this was a man who owned another human being and raped her. It is that simple. The kind of denial we are in as about the history of this country and what slavery meant in its entirety is something that we have to constantly work on to bring forth the truth. You are absolutely right. The last story in the book before the last chapter traces the genealogy of Michelle Obama. The 1850s. Goes to a young woman who is raped. , this trace that history happens time and time again. This is what, you get a black family in the white house, this is the history that is brought in that we need to know. We need to have a grasp of. [inaudible] as i mentioned, as i talk to about obama, someone mentioned it wasnt just obamas inspiration for people in the u. S. And africanamericans that globally. When people were asking about obama, this is with admiration and with hope and the idea that wins, this has an impact on us in brazil. This has an impact on black people in england. It had an impact on people in egypt. All over the world not only is it a repudiation of the bush years but to some degree of American History. Idealistic ands unrealistic to but they were rooted in what people saw and what people felt even without the details of this journey of africanamericans from slavery all the way through to getting to the point where you can get somebody in the white house. Book, whether he turns out to be the worst president of the greatest president , separate from that there is this breakthrough and what it meant for people around the world. It is meant to inspire people of african descent and russia, canada, brazil to run for office. In 2008, because brazil has this weird law that you can run under any name you choose, at least 8 for office in brazil. They all lost but they ran. They are activists now in brazil and other places who argued that there may be some value in being engaged in Public Policy and activism. Goes down with obama, that during has had such a meaning, such as significant that it has been a major breakthrough. This andgetting all of starting to figure out what is the context, what i found was there was a lack of comprehensive work that could capture all of that. There are more books out on obama than any president then lincoln. Only two years in office. Hundreds of books. History,hem frame this and particularly the white house as the icon. For me that was away to say some things in a way to get into the issue that i didnt see out there. Yes . In addition to reading your you, do you where did get the resources to find out the information you are talking about . A great question. A lot of it was digging into the archives and into the files, reading biographies, dozens of biographies, almost all of the president s. Probably at least 30 biographies on president s. That leads you down the roads. Reading traditional black. Istory a lot of that was what i got from people. Party with clayton wire, the actor on the in the baltimore series. I was telling him i am doing this research. He says write about blind tom. Guy. An important the first black person to be invited to entertain at the white house. Ok. I did some research on blind tom. ,t turns out there is not a lot but one woman has spent her entire academic career writing about blind tom. She wrote three books. Really important books. I track those down. Two were out of print. I found them eventually. There was another book that has come out. Blind, and his mother and father were both slaves. True he hadso all these different names. They sold him to one family. They threw tom in a long way. We dont see how we can use them but bring them along. While toms mother and father were working, would be in the house crawling around on the floor, and they treated him like a pet dog. They would put food out and just leave him. The family had a piano. The children would sit there for piano lessons. One day that family is having dinner and they hear the piano. They go there and it is tom. He is four years old, jamming. Prodigy printl anything he hears he can reproduce. What is the family do . They exploit him. They say a blind tom, they create a whole career for him at the age of six years old. He is traveling around the country doing performances. He is brilliant. He is considered one of the most running composers of the 19th century. This is in the 1850s. 1859 he ends up in washington for some reason. He is invited to the white house , president buchanans white house and he doesnt performance. Hes the first africanamerican other than people who were slaves who may have performed. Givens information i was just by having this discussion at a party. There was another example, i was at the grocery store. I talk to somebody and they were asking me if i ever heard of abraham bolding. He was the first africanamerican to be on the president S Secret Service detail. This is a crazy story. A state trooper in chicago. He ended up when kennedy was elected, candid the wanted to expand the service, he was hired. Day andrking one kennedy comes to chicago. They are one of provide security. The play they provide security they put bolding in the basement. This is his assignment to guard the toilet while kennedy is doing whatever. He is down there. As it turns out kennedy has to use the restroom. He hears all this noise and he looks up and here comes kennedy and the crew. Kennedy sees him and says are you Chicago Police . He says no, im secret service. Kennedy says would you like to work on the detail . This is kennedy. Camelot, inclusion. He says yes. It is a good deal. N couple of months later bolde is sent to washington. The secret service is racist to the core. Calls him the nword routinely. He has to be in segregated housing. This iS Secret Service. The whole deal. After point he gets tired of it and says this is not going to work for me. Im going back to chicago. He goes back to chicago. 1963 comes around. Kennedy gets assassinating. His take on this is that those racist secret Service People in washington had told him they would not give their life for kennedy because of what kennedy was doing for colored people. He thought this was something the war in commission needed to know. He thought that there were 2 plots to kill kennedy. One in florida and one in chicago in october and november of 1963 that the war in commission would not be told about. He starts complaining to his superiors that we need to get this information. They say no, stay out of this. He decides hes going to secretly get information to the commission. Dc. Omes to washington history. Find out about him. N, charged withe taking bribes treaty goes to jail. The first black secret service agent, jail for three years. Part of what she is in a mental institution. I never knew this story. Most of us never knew this story. This is tied into the bigger issue. Part of the reason they went after him was because he would have exposed something called operation abworld. This was a plot to assassinate castro. This information has come out because under the president ial , they finallysed started releasing papers on the kennedy assassination. In those papers were detailed of the operation. This happened after the bay of pigs. It was a clear plan by kennedy cuba ton individuals in carry out this assassination. Bolden would have exposed that if you talk about this other plot. He wrote a book. It has a long title. He has been trying to get the indication. With these new papers that have come out they basically support his story. Hes not going to get the three years that he went to jail. He was literally railroaded. The judge instructions to the jury was that basically this guy is guilty, go to liberate. In the first trial they came back and said no. They had a second trial, the same judge and they found him guilty. Not a single blemish on his record it all up to that point. People who testified against him recanted their story. The whole thing. They railroaded him into prison. [inaudible] how long did it take you to gather your information . Well, i usually say 57 years because in many ways these are stories we had all our life that we had to step back and deprogram from, but actually about two and a half three years of this kind of digging, digging, digging, and, again, the book just started to grow and drive its own narrative, and so its out of my control at a certain point, but, yeah, took about that long. Yes . Where is the book being sold . Its you can get it online, of course,. You can get it at city lights as well as amazon, and its in the bookstores. Were on a second printing because we actually sold out, and so itll be available, and unfortunately, i left my copy i was bringing with me in the car, but you can see from the picture there what the book looks like, and the cover is from a very famous photographer who took pictures of many actually famous africanamericans, booker t. Washington, people like that, and this is from 1898. The Easter Egg Hunt started under president hays, and initially it was at the capitol, but then congressman complained about the kids tearing up the grass and whatever, so they moved it to the white house, and it became one of the few venues by 1898 where you had inte integrated public events, so thats why we have the white child and black child together because outside of this Easter Egg Hunt in the grass, in that period, segregation was pretty rigid. This was two years after the plesi vs. Ferguson trial, and segregation is legal across the country, and two years before the last black member of the congress was thrown out of office and there would not be another one for another three decades. Any other questions, comments . Yes . This is a personal question to you. I know that you are wearing your wedding band, how did your family deal with you in the process of gathering your information . I assume a lot of time was taken up. Yes and no. I tried very much to have balance; right . I have a 22 month old son; right . During the time i was writing this, he was really young, and so, you know, i had to make sure i take time with him, and it wasnt as much as he was demanding my time as much as i was demanding his time. Its like my kid; right . I want to play with him, and i should be writing, you know, and i want to help him walk when i should be editing, so you try to have a balance, but, you know, its demanding, and, you know, at the end of it, you breathe a sigh of relief before you move on to the next project, but, you know, thats what i do, and it was, again, you know, working closely with my editor, working with other people getting, you know, sending it out to people to read and get comments and stuff like that. It was, you know, in many ways a collected work as well. I have two quick things. Ok. One on plesi vs. Ferguson, one of the things that surprised me when i read it was ferguson, i mix which one is which, i think plesi was a fair skinned black man. Right. What i didnt know looking back at that was the reason why that case was so important was because he was fair enough to pass. Right. And that was the whole thing with, you know, how much black blood, you know, that the person has to be declared black and therefore inferior. That shocked me because in a lot of classrooms they talk about that case, but not the ugliness of the color, you know, controversy that still is with us. That last thing, whats your next project . [laughter] oh, well, i actually have several. Im working on a book looking at the intersection of jazz and international politics, and it basically looks at how over the century of jazz, how its been appropriated and become meaningful in countries around the world, and ive been in about 60 countries, and theres pretty much in where ive been where there hasnt been a jazz culture of some sort. I was telling b 134b the other somebody the other day that i was in north korea, and the north korea marching band was playing some jazz. I think they were doing the atrain or something, and just kind of all over the world, and so what does that mean . You know, how are they processing that . Do they see it as American Music or black music . Do they see the roots of it . Do they see it as blending in with their music . A challenge to their music, is it high bred, is it pure . All those questions. I teach a class, and these are questions we explore in my class, but theres not a comprehensive work that allows us to see jazz, in particularly using the concepts of international legislation, capitalism, democracy, all those terms as a way to understand how jazz exists, and then im working on a book also looking at what my colleague and i call disaster capitalism, and its impact on marginalized communities in the United States. Theres a lot of information that came out about whats happening locally in our communities really is embedded in these macroeconomic changes that are going on. This is one of the issues i think, for example, around egypt, is mubarak needs to go, and mubarak is a means to go, and the political corruption of that system needs to change, but short of all of that, its tieing to the Global Economic structure really are the restrictions that because at this point, it doesnt matter who is in there, and unless those get addressed, the reason people are rebelling that they dont have opportunities, they are getting educated, but theres no jobs available, those are tied in in a great degree to the global structure. Im working on a book with that. Im also looking at post racial blackness in asia and looking at kind of the experiences of people of african dissent in a number of different asian countries, japan, korea, and china in particular, and im going to china later in the year to do research there. Ok, and oh, ok, no, no thats fine. Thats some of the stuff im working on. Your research concerning jazz, i hope you take the time to read a periodical called freedom waves. Yes. Its an article there by one of my favorite writers written in 1980 called will jazz survive, and i think its a must read. In terms of post racial blackness, you may want to check out a site of a historian who specializes in the african president s in asia. I had the pleasure of meeting him. You go on to his website. I dont know where hes going to be in new york, but hes also traveling throughout the orient. Ok. And that is pretty much his research, the african presence in japan and china. Yeah. Ect. , and hopefully maybe hell be down in the dc area since hes there often too. Thats my gift to you for a very enlightened afternoon. Ok. Well, thank you so much. I will followup. Hi. Hi. My question is in what ways do you think you can project these vital pieces of information to the younger Africanamerican Community being that, you know, were the up and coming, and we have to pass it on. Through what medium do you think you could project it to . Well, apparently i have to do , andook and the internet its a very different way of publishing now, but it has andme inevitable inescapable, so im working with my publishers. They have put up facebook ages and internet pages, but im also thinking about this as well in terms of this exact question you are asking. How do you begin to reach through the media that are available now, the kind of audience that is not necessarily going to pick up a book, and its not that that a deal. People are going to get information in different ways. How do you assess that and break, for us older guys, the mode we are comfortable in, but really become more modernized, and so i think, you know, im exploring that as much as i can, and ive basketball writing and ive been writing articles that have gone up on the internet. I dont really have a blog. I have things that have been blogged, but i dont really have a blog site itself, and so i probably need to kind of work on that, but im counting on my 22 month old too actually to deal with this. I have an ipad which he uses more than i do; right . So i suspect, you know, in a couple years, i can just ask him, how do i get this to work . [laughter] thats the deal, but thats the question. I think there needs to be avenues as well as for young people to have these kind of interchanges and interactions kind of generationally, and we havent been and when i say we, particularly, im thinking people my age. We havent been all that conscious of creating these mechanisms and vehicles through which we can have these kinds of interchanges as institutional, not just sort of a oneshot deal, but ways that are ongoing, multicross generational dialogue and institution and debate. Yeah, id like to know about your journey as a writer, the seed of it, when it began, when did you find out that you were a writer . How did that all come about . Ok. Actually i dont think of myself as a writer. I write books, but i dont think im a writer. I think Tony Morrison is a writer who the rest of us bow down to. Well, actually it started for me in the 1960s. I grew up in detroit, and in 1967 we had these race riots in detroit in july. It started a few blocks from my house, and it was really, really hot. It was like 95, 97 degrees at mid might, really, really hot, and everybody was out in the street. My mother, sister, and i and neighbors walked a block or so down to the main avenue where basically all of the action was going on. We had been there for a very short while, and then this car drives up, these two white guys get out, take out a shotgun, and start firing at the corner. Everybody gets shot except for me. My mother was shot, sister was shot. Fortunately, they both survive. You know, the injuries were not really, really serious, by this was like when i was like 12. Now, in reaction to that, the city started Building Community centers, and they really were trying to figure out how do we like not have this repeatist again . Now, actually it happenedded the next year when Martin Luther king was killed in detroit was a city that exploded. What happened in the interim was that people who were my age were taken off the streets and put in commune centers, and we were learning to do Community Services a lot of which was putting out our Community News letter. This is where i learned to write. People who were doing this said well, your subject and verbs should agree. You have to make sense in this newsletter. [laughter] this is where i begin to say, oh, oh, yeah, maybe school has some utility. Thats where i began to like writing. I never thought of it as a career at all. When i was in undergrad, i majored in communications and not journalism. My journalist teachers kept asking me to go into journalism, and i kept refusing. In that sense i never saw myself as a writer, but ive seen writing as my means to try to have an impact. If i could sing, if i could dribble, oh, man, i wouldnt be standing here, but given that, my talent is literacy, so, you know, thats what i do, but thats my journey, and then basically theres not been a time when i havent been writing even though ive had many, many other kind of professions. Yes . [inaudible] now, i think the image of Michelle Obama, barak obama, and his two girls is the most powerful image in the world because everybody nows they are unassailable, their integrity, their love of the family, their bonding, it just jumps off the screen at you; right . That, i think, is an embedded image that this country has needed for decades that the way in which the black family has been demonized throughout American History, the way black women have been demonized throughout black history, the way children have been demonized in black history, this all counters there, and its not the cosby fantasy, but its the real family going through a whole lot, and what they are going through, the death threats, and the things they get that we dont know about and live with every single day and will be living with for the rest of their lives, their commitment, we want to change this country, move it in another direction, thats the way it is. You know, i thought the best thing was, you know, little sasha speaking chinese. You know, that is an amazing image. You know . It also is reflective of their parenting and their sense of education in the 21st century really is more than just what we thought it has been. It really is about speaking internationally and globally and preparing yourself. Do you intend to do a documentary or is that in your realm of doing things . Its not within my realm of expertise. I dont know. Mien i think there are the subjects in the book really do warrant in many ways a visual expression, and so i dont know, but i think, you know, these stories and the stories i was telling you theres a lot more. Its really kind of fascinating, and it would be something i would love to see up on the screen. I notice you wrote a book, and did you start it before the current president was elected . My idea started before because, again, in 2007 when barack obama started to explore being president , it already became a really kind of electric idea, and once he announced at the beginning of 2008, then well, i guess it was 2007 then it was a story to follow. Even if he didnt win, i thought it remitted a leap or a departure from the jackson campaigns, and those had been important, but those, of course, were built on the Shirley Chism chisolm campaign, so its a building process going on, and obama steps out there, and remember when obama announced, it was the day that there was the annual state of the Black Country thing, whatever that was, right, and there was some displeasure that obama announced in illinois, in springfield, where lincoln announced basically, and not in i think there in north carolina. The argument was im not dissing you guys, which includes you guys, but it includes everybody else. The message im sending is were in this to win, to represent the interests youre having at that meeting, but the interests in meetings in l. A. , ghettos in texas, all over the country, and were going to go on this road, so already you get this kind of departure that as a political scientist is significant, and then you start to see the changes in the pulling from overwhelming majority support of Hillary Clinton by the black Community Starts shifting towards obama. Part of it was when he won in iowa, but i think even beyond that, the shift was already happening because people were seeing something very different, and he wasnt the black candidate. He was a candidate whom was black who was raised with really profound issues, and particularly in the postbush atmosphere, it was really kind of significant so even before he was elected, you know, i was starting to try to get a handle on, you know, who is this guy, and what does he represent politically that may be different . Various reactions to his presidency. Do you plan a sequel to your book or a book that only deals with the reactions, the various reactions of his presidency especially considering the reaction to certain segment of the White Community to his presidency. You know, im thinking about it, but i need to find a way in that is different from the dozens of books that are out there already, from black scholars to white scholars, black journalists, white journalists, stop talking before, but also one other books im working on is looking at comparatively because my area is comparative politics, the impact of president obamas policy on race equality compared to the former president lulas impact in brazil and her politics because in many ways they are comparable. They both were in terms of background, she comes from a very impoverished deal, 4th grade education. When he was elected, it polarized the country because the southern part of brazil, said were not going to have this low class uneducated man representing the country, and he faced that, and the north which was marginalized said we are glad to have him because he represents the working people and so he won, and when he won, he began to bring changes, and lifted millions of people out of poverty, has made massive kinds of improvements in the country. Now, all that hasnt necessarily come down to the brazillian population, some of it has, others hasnt, but thats a story to be told, but it parallels obamas tenure, now the question is president obama going to be two years or eight years . Or two more years and then six more years . If hes reelected, this book is on hold because its still basically seeing the book is not or obamas book is not complete yet, and so its basically seeing kind of what happens, but already as we know, the surge in public racism in the last two years is unprecedented and things we thought were in the past manifest on a daily basis whether its the counterracist rhetoric we got to leaders of the Republican Party to just kind of other stuff thats out there. All of that i think has to get processed at some point, and then, again, im thinking of it in some degree in comparative terms. [inaudible] well, thank you very much. Thank you for coming out on this day. [applause] on history bookshelf, here from the countrys bestknown American History writers at the past decade every saturday at 4 00 p. M. Eastern. To watch these programs at any time, visit our website, www. Cspan. Org history. You are watching American History tv all weekend every weekend on cspan3. Cah week, reel ameri brings you archival films that help tell the story of the 20th century. Next, the city argues that modern cities are unhealthy and that planned communities with clean air and safe areas for children to play are a better option. 56 of was made, about the u. S. Population lived in urban areas. It was 80 as of the 2010 census