Transcripts For CSPAN3 Hearing On Water Shortages In The West 20220716

Good morning, im pleased it call this subcommittee competing on conservation climate forestry and Natural Resources and grateful the Ranking Member marshall for his partnership in organizing the hearing on with respect water reulgts. I know he shares my concern about the unprecedented drought the west faces as it is relates it declining water levels in the aquifer. Spourp simple. To sound the locker room about the water crisis in the American West. It has not been there dry in 1200 years. If we dont get our act together here it will not only put our with respect agriculture at risk but the American West. My state is at the head waters of the Colorado River which starts as snow melt before cutting across 1400 miles to the sea offer tez the river basin is the life blood and provides the Drinking Water for 40 Million People over s states. It irgates favor million acres of agriculture and under pins the 26 billion and running out of water. The two largest reservoirs lake powell and lake immediate are the lake phaoerd since they were filled like pull has dropped morning 30 feet in the last few years. The water crisis is not limited to the kfrl river basin the most recent data found more than 50 of the entire United States is experiencing severe drought and right now more than 75 of the Western Region is seeing severe drought. These conditions threaten it put farmers and ranchers out of business and threaten the communities to support families and livelihood which is every community and believe threatens our way of life in the west. Farmers like joel drake a dry lavin whaoetd farm has had to tear up nearly a third of his land because there was not enough weather. He had it sell a 10th of his herd because theres not enough grass it graze cattle. A ranch per grand county, colorado, remembers when water used to flow 6,000 cubic feet per second. Now it is lucky to have 1,000 per second. Hair sun a fruit grower said he last hundreds of thousands of dollars the last three years from drought. Theres no longer a slim margin for error. A farmer in the same count used to take one hour it irrigate his soil and knew it takes six and the main reason for this is Climate Change. Rising temperatures means less snow pack and less runoff to feed the rivers and less water for farms for ranchers and kphaopbts across the west. On top of that the rising it was mean whatever water makes it to the roughs evaporates and is absorbed because it is so dry there. Is a five locker room fire in the am American West. When hurricanes and other disasters strike the east coast or tpwufrl states Washington Springs into action it protect these communities. That is what a federal government is supposed to do to bring the full power it together to help fellow citizens. We convenient that response to the with respect water crisis even though its consequences i would argue are far more wide reaching and stand than any other Natural Disaster. That is just water. I have not mentioned how it is unsin arithmeticing the forest and blanketing the communities. Three of the large rlgs filed fires in colorado history were in 2020. The day before new years eve the marshall fire destroyed over 1,000 homes in Boulder County in 24 hours with sheer devastation. Last consider communities will some of the worst air quality because the wildfire. Northern utah and colorado on the same day had the worse air quality in the world worse than beijing and led senator roll me it took a raft trip it talk about water and climate ands from industry. There are days people cant go outside. They cant open their windows and dangerous air pollution puts them at risk and left people in the west it reckon with a sobering possibility in a future where this is not the exception but the norm. I worry that if we dont act urgently on climate it will in make the American West unrecognizable it kids and i refuse it accept that. The people of my state refuse it accept that. They have a room expectation that our National Government will partner with them and help protect the American West. So my hope is our hearing will help shake the complacency and create the momentum it act urgently. I would like to thank the witnesses for sharing their expertise and hearing what they are seeing and experiencing on the ground and ways they are trying to manage the crisis. We need to act now to bring immediate relief it the western communities and cant address the Western Water crisis in any meaning philadelphia way unless away come together in a partnership it undercancer the crisis. I have a map of the u. S. Drought monitor. Senator marshall as staff brought it with the cal so, of wheat golf course and rancher in grand county describing the situation away face. I ask unanimous consent they be entered it the record. That was fun to do. Thank you. I would like it also say thank you it senator boseman the Ranking Member of the agriculture committee. Especially coming from arkansas where they dont have the same Drought Conditions. But let me turn it over it my Ranking Member. Thank you so much and good morning, everyone. Implement it khaefrpbg your subcommittee chairman bennett and for holding this hearing. I want to thank the witness for making the trip and taking several days out of your life and im honored to have our Ranking Member and colleagues for coming. We appreciate that. It has been a decade sense drought was a key focus on hearing and i hope week gain insight on how to address the challenges with respect to drought, wildfire and conservation. Senator been net the western third of kansas and eastern third of colorado look a lot alike. You mentioned the colorado remember but the arc river is person it us. It is spelled like arkansas but we pronounce it is arkansas as it goes out of com through kansas. Im not sure what the yoke sis call it. They call it arkansas but piven joel embiid fly fish being in the heads waters there the may fly hatchery is incredible but were of the riverbed is dry. My wife is from arc and her grand tpartd told me a story of coming to colorado when he was a lawyer, Railroad Lawyer and coming tocom and having the arc river between his legs at the head water and couldnt believe it because the time it got it arc it was were wider than that. Unfortunately too much of kansas it is literally four wheeler trail ride for us. In it 1935 of the the worst dust storm ever in north America Robert giganticer was an of a report from washington, d. C. And summed it up with three little words familiar. Rural life in the dust ball if it rain stphras. This is not knew but it exacerbated. Even today the three words dictate lively lose on the high plains in our home state of kansas and colorado. Last morocco the. Deemed april 1 of the driest months in the last 100 years over half of cost is designated moderate drought and over a third is severe as the chairman commented. So much of kansas and colorado in those extreme Drought Conditions. Just last week the capital, the Topeka Capital Journal reported the projected whaoetd yield is to drop by over 100 million bushels about 30 of the average yield will be impacted by drought this year over a billion dollars it kansas. This lack of rain not only hitters farm production but adversely affects ranchers and families who fall victim it fires and we have had horrible prairie fires the past several years. This lack of rain hurts farm production and adversely effects ranch, and burns ends of dollars lost in assets and the worse of lives of homes and personal lives an skwrpbts of cattle that they cannot replace. Many friends and universities have been working on solutions and im excited to hear from them and hole r hope this will yield positive results. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you very much, senator marshall. It is nice to have a neighbor as a Ranking Member. Senator, boseman do you having in . I will now introduce the three witnesses i invited to testify it today and senator marshall will introduce his two from the Arkansas River valley. These are all the leading sports in their fields with decades of experience in management of our warts from snow mac and all of tell partnered with tkwrs groups to manage the Water Resources it pressure the economy for the next generation. Our first witness is the Andrew Mueller a long time leader in with respect wartd issues with sentence seufr policy legal and Technical Expertise and currently service as general manager of the Colorado River water kdistrict headquartered in glen ward springs, the river district leads the management of the Colorado River for 15 with respect counties along with broader use of the water in my state. The Colorado River district has led efforts it predict critical water flows sustain agriculture and protect fish species in the upper basin. Before leading there he practiced 23 years and specialized in water, Natural Resources and lands use issues and he earned his degree from the university of colorado and b. A. In Kenyon College in ohio. Thank you for your leadership and being here. Dr. Courtney shuttles schultz is authored over 50 publications on forest policy and book on the collaborative Landscape Restoration Program alleged usda. Dr. Schultz is a at Colorado State university and her research focuses on lefthand skaup restoration, fewer management and adapting it khraoplt clang on u. S. Forest lands. Dr. Schultz is a director of the Public Lands Policy Group which produces research it strengthen management and policy related it our public lands. She started. C. S. U. Claimant adan tags partnership it can connect scientists appear policy makesers to work to help American West adapt it Climate Change. Dr. Schultz has a b. Trafplt stanford and m. S. In kbiology and stageable development from the university of maryland and ph. D. In forestry. Thank you for being here. The last witness i want to dangerous is dr. Ellen herbert as members of this subcommittee know well it is a leading advocate of sports machine and women completed to conserving americas wetlands. It is conserved overruled 15 million, a of water foul habitat and already has supported the protection of inner 177 million acres of wetlands. Dr. Prbt r herbert is a member of the international saoupbs team where she evaluates the outcomes of their kwork thraug field experiment station, numerical modeling and before that she completed research on the fact of drought and sea level changes in the San Francisco bay and coastal georgia. Dr. Hurblt earned a b. A. In biology from Kenyan College and h. D. From Indiana University and graduate Research Fellow for the National National as soon as foundation. I cannot thank you enough for your leadership on those and making the trip for the hearing. I look forward your testimony and hop it will give our colleagues a better feeling for the klimt change. Thank you and i recognize Ranking Member marshall it introduce the next two witnesses. Im pleased to two introduce two panels mr. Earl lewis and tom willis and they are both good friends i have none for decades and they live eat and sleep conservation and i appreciate both of them being here today. Earl aou which is is the chief her the Water Resources and member of the Western State Water Council dead kited his career to Water Resources in kansas and he is responsible for any laws in the state related to worth kmanagement and criminal. In addition it his role as chief engineer he was on the governors Water Vision Team developing the longterm vision for the future of water supply in kansas and on multiple boards relateded to water policy. Tom tom willis is a titan of agriculture, as an entrepreneur, businessman and a lifelong conservationist before it was invoked. He has many ventures, but one of them is the owner of the farm south of garden city, kansas where he tried to cope crops on six or eight inches of rain every year. Tom was the first to establish a Water Technology farm in the state of kansas in partnership with the kansas water ops. Since 2016, tom and his son, a veteran, have been studying and implementing new technologies, such as drip irrigation, and Aerial Photography to manage irrigation on their operation. As we continue discussing solutions for Water Management and usage, im confident that the perspectives of these two will provide beneficial to the committee. In one final shout out, i want to shout out to dr. Herbert, you have been a lifelong partner to my family and one of our choices for charitable contribution. Any written testimony be on that we will include in the record. You may proceed with your testimony and we will go right down the line. Chairman bennett, Ranking Member marshall, members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to speak about the crisis im seeing play out before my eyes in western colorado. Im the general manager of the Colorado River Water Conservation district. As a Regional Government we lead in the conservation, development and protection of the headwaters of the Colorado River and a 15 county area in western colorado. The precipitation in our district provides 65 of the Colorado Rivers annual flow. We are at the headwaters of the river system that supports 40 Million People, 5 million irrigated of agriculture, 30 tribal nations, seven states and 11 national parks. We are the first link in a chain vital to the health and future of the single most important Natural Research resource in the american southwest. The Colorado River is referred to as the hardest working marin america. Maybe even folks from arkansas would disagree. But, even in wet years, the river no longer reaches its natural amount of the sea of cortez and claims to water exceed its annual average flow every year. The masses massive system of federal water on the West Reservoir was designed to accommodate the known variability in the river system and worked extremely well for over 50 years. The longest and most severe drought on record. And that once highly functioning federal system, once depleted, with only 34 of system storage remaining, forcing the department of interior in the states last year and this year to resort to emergency actions to keep the system from collapse. Over the last 22 years, the flow to the Colorado River has been 20 below average in science tell us we should anticipate and plan for significant reduction in flow in the future. The climate we have experienced in the last 20 years, as senator bennett alluded to, has been hotter and drier than any time in the last 1200 years. There is a direct causal relationship between rising temperatures in the volume of water flowing in the Colorado River at its tributaries. Western colorado, the most significant regional source of water in the Colorado River is an epicenter for significantly above average rising temperatures. Most of our counties experience a four degree fahrenheit rise in temperature since 1895. With greatly accelerating temperatures over the last decade, a very concerning trend. For every one degree fahrenheit rise we see streamflow reductions between 3 and 9 . None have felt these climate impacts more than our familyowned farms and ranches in our Colorado River district. The resources of the pastor no longer physically or legally available for many of our agriculture producers. Families who have been involved in ranching for multiple generations are being forced to sell their cattle and confront tremendously uncertain futures. This drought is threatening our local, regional and National Food supply. We cannot nor will we throw up our hands in surrender the thriving american southwest for forces of Climate Change. Citizens, communities and governments are developing strategies, baz in the past when our nation has been confronted, we need the federal government to be an integral partner in our efforts. We must recognize there is no single solution that will allow us to escape this rapidly changing climate. I want to touch on concrete examples worthy of your consideration. We strategically placed small reservoirs in our High Mountain valleys. It will help us mitigate Climate Change by retiming the flows, which will provide essential water for our streams, community and food supply. Federal assistance refunding tools like the watershed act, will be essential to our effort to adapt and great time this water. We need more robust agricultural efficiency projects such as the lower gunnison project in my district where Agricultural Producers team up with local, regional, state and federal Government Agencies to adapt to Climate Change. Expanding and streamlining the program, we can help producers in many other watersheds in the American West. Its the greatest reservoir in the Colorado River in our water users on the western slope of colorado. The 2023 farm bill presents opportunities to encourage Public Investment in proper force management, forest and natural Water Infrastructure, enhancing Climate Resilience of water supply, supporting workforce and increasing the pace and scale of watershed restoration and adaptation. The drought and conclusive Climate Science clearly demonstrates that demands outstrip the water supply on the Colorado River basin. To survive and thrive in the southwest we will need to implement an all hands on deck approach to every water user, sector from agriculture, two municipal water uses that will have to reduce the water consumption. If congress is to incentivize the irrigated aggie and the colorado basin, and must support productive agriculture while focusing incentives on farms and largely productive lands. The federal government should not fund the retirement of productive and Agricultural Lands. In conclusion, we are only beginning to see this Climate Crisis in the west. We cannot remain idle as rivers dry and family shutter their business. Wishing for snow and rain is no longer an adequate plan at any level of decisionmaking. If our communities are going to survive in colorado and downstream, Decisive Action is needed to help us adapt to this hotter and drier future. This concludes my testimony. Very much appreciate it, mr. Lewis is next. Ranking member marshall, members of the subcommittee, i appreciate the opportunity to appear in front of you to talk about this issue. Im the chief engineer of the kents department of agriculture Water Department and a counsel who i appear on behalf of today. The water counsel is an organization represent in the 18 Western States and members are pointed by each of the governors. As each of the people who have talked before me have mentioned, the situation is dire. We have heard about the Colorado River basin with 40 Million People and 5 million acres challenge with low water supply. The situation in the great plains is similar in the fact that, over time, we are receiving less precipitation and are challenged by drought. Each year, when we have less precipitation, it means our farmers are pumping more water and exacerbating the declines. This is a vital resource for our region and if we dont act, we will end up with situations of that resource going way is longest the pressures situated with the gate. There are three roles that i believe the federal government plays an it comes to drought. First with the corps of engineers, second, collection, analysis and distribution of data to the government and individual producers. Third, programs to producers and communities that help to mitigate drought and its effects. The collection and analysis for reliable data is important for water variability in a few of those that deal with the federal government. The National System is a Multi Agency Partnership that coordinates longterm planning and forecasting, including the drought monitor, which we talked about here today. The water counsel supports it and cochairs the executive council with usda and noah. Senator boone has been a champion and has more improvements and we thank him for his past support. In much of the west, winter snowpack and spring route dominate the water supply. The survey i Water Supply Forecasting Program within is critical for water users, managers and players. Program funding has been at 9 million per year over the last two decades. While equipment, staffing and other costs have increased, challenging the program to meet Staffing Levels and maintain an adequate network. Theres an increase in the budget that has not been realized, although we would encourage your consideration at the request. The council also supports road bust funding for improved seasonal to sub seasonal precipitation forecasting. It is critical to improve leadtime for water supply planning and reservoir and agricultural planning. They have been proposed to improve the 90 day pursuit pursue petition forecast but funding has been an adequate today. Water Resource Managers and agricultural interests are relying on the operation data for irrigation scheduling, management, Water Administration and a host of other issues. Satellitebased e. T. Data is already available in some regions, but is not readily reliable for modeling and decisionmaking. The Council Supports proposals for a program that feels the urgent name for an operational system that can have crop water use estimates such as 2568 introduced by senator cortez. We encourage them to consider the role in participating in National Water district. As well as water information to serve the needs by culture. The senators have introduced legislation to establish a National Water datas framework. The water counsel welcomes the introduction of the water data active in sports coordination and leverage of state and federal resources. Finally, usda Conservation Assistance Program help Agriculture Industries thrive in good times and survive in hard times. They support targeted and voluntary programs for the conservation practices in groundwater recharge to preserve the longterm ground and surplus Water Resources. The Partnership Program in the Conservation Reserve Enhancement Program are all programs that implement best practices on the ground to lessen the need for water and help mitigate drought. The agency helps communities plan and implement projects that have a reliable water supply. Planning for and eliminating the impact of drought will take all of us working together, which is why appreciate the opportunity of being here today. Thank you for the opportunity and i would be happy to answer questions. Thank you for your testimony. Dr. Schulz. Thank you chairman bennett, Ranking Member and members of the subcommittee. I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you, im a professor of 47 Natural Resources in fort collins colorado, and i lead the Climate Adaptation partnership. In colorado and across the country Climate Changes leading to increased fire, smoke, flooding and drought. In april this year usda designated the state as a designated Natural Disaster area because of conditions likely to persist for years. Its expected to cost the state 500 million in agricultural damages in reduce water availability with the water users alike. Fires also increasing in colorado and across the west. Three of the largest fires occurred in 2020 alone. And it was the costliest fire in december, which is supposed to be winter, the marshall fire, which burned 6000 acres and a thousand homes in a suburban setting. When fires are followed by heavy rain, which will only become more likely, we will see landslides, millions of dollars in damage to Water Infrastructure and flash floods that lead to the loss of life and property. Forests are also not growing back and smoke from fires is increasing with major implications from human health. These impacts fall disproportionately on low income and marginalized places. In the headwater state that supplies 18 other u. S. States in mexico drought and fire have impacts that extend well beyond our state borders. Our landgrant university is undertaking extensive work related to Climate Change. We are at the forefront of research, researching resilience to Natural Disasters like fire, Climate Adaptation. Close fire issues in colorado and across the west with a focus on rural and indigenous communities. Examining wildfire impacts on forest, sediment and we collaborate with usda excessively on the efforts and appreciate the partnership with the research arms. Others at the university are working on climate agriculture, sustainable livestock systems and innovation. We are home to the partnership on air quality, climate and health whose members are studying smoke and smoke communication to protect human health. Their growing partnership with the climate houses related to drought and adaptation planning and these are core activities of our extension efforts. We are developing Educational Opportunities that would serve the existing workforce, train new graduate students and train and recruit youths into the fields. I want to highlight a few potential areas for future attention and investment. We see potential for Climate Adaptation research and possibly more landgrant hub partnerships. Perhaps the multiyear funding to support partnerships for agriculture and forest resilience. There also may be value in exploring authorizing the climate hub. A fiveyear review of the hub, indicating that there is significant demand for the work in a lot of areas for growth. For forest and fire management, my area of expertise, the situation will only get worse and its far more expensive to respond wrote reactively than proactively. Having beneficial fire and forest can reduce fire hazard near communities and give firefighters raider opportunities to engage fires as it moves towards where people live and reduce intensity which can protect the forest ecosystem for the benefits for router provisioning and Carbon Storage. At the same time the best way to protect communities is to work on space because embers can come from miles away. And most ignitions are actually human started on private land. So if we are trying to protect communities, where it needs to be done with strong communitybased partner engagement. Partners have noticed that highpriority areas would require a 40 to 60 billion investment across jurisdictions and the next 10 years and must rely on federal, state, tribal and ngo partnerships to accelerate action. We got partway there in the infrastructure bill and i would encourage you to continue seeking the necessary funding with a few recommendations. Partners are seeking greater involvement, transparency and accountability for how the funds are being spent to make sure they are going to the intended purpose, being placed strategically, the lysing Carbon Storage and going areas historically underserved. I would recommend a clear plan for the funding and infrastructure bill dedicated to prescribed fire, which is an essential force management tool and how to deploy funds when they are needed most, given current workforce shortages and limited Industry Capacity to do restoration work. Id be happy to work with you on how future investments could be guided on measures that focus on outcome, such as more emphasis on the mitigated target with strong external oversight and engagement. In light of the impacts of a claim changing climate. The watershed seven farmlands lancets monumental in colorado and across the rats west. I colleagues are ready to assist and greatly appreciate the opportunity to discuss these with the committee today. We will take you up on your offer of assistance. Thank you for being here, and the floor is yours. Thank you chairman bennett, Ranking Member marshall and members of the subcommittee for giving me the opportunity to speak today. My name is tom wallace and senator marshall, theyre not in kansas anymore. You guys can read my testimony. Theres three or four points i would like to make in the allotted time that ive got. Number one, this drought israel. We have not had participation on my farm and four counties in western kansas since last august. This morning at 3 00 in the morning i got a call from my wife. Usually when that happens it means theres cows on the highway and my cowboy strung somewhere. Thats not why she called. She called to tell me we got an inch or two of rain last night. The first rain weve had since last august. Number two, when that happens in our area because of the harshness of the climate, we pull heavy on the aquifer. When i first bought my farm, my son and i farm about 7500 irrigated acres in kansas, southwest kansas. When i first bought it, after the first year, my pulldown on my average wealth and that was 10 feet. 10 feet of water that we use that was not replenished. And i could see that that was not sustainable. So, working with the state we developed, one of the first water tight farms and and that was to say how could we be profitable and still conserve water . So working with the state we changed packages on our sprinklers, we redid our sprinklers, but moisture probes and because the average farmer will look at everything he sees above ground. By using moisture probes we were able to go down as far as five feet and say what is the water look like down there, how much water does it need. We also used telemetry, it allows me to look at the well when its running. And if i get tempted to turn it up faster, i can actually see what it does to the aquifer in that particular well. In most of the time its enough to make a comeback down. Thats been helpful. We have used their remotes on all of our circles. Why is that important . In the past you might not know about it for four or five or six hours. It was standing in one place and sprinklers in the same place. We were able to know instantaneously. My sons and the hired men are really good at fixing the sprinklers at 3 00 in the morning so we dont waste water. We changed our location. When i got there it was corn and soybeans, soybeans, corn. As a disclaimer, i am one of the producers, but i would tell you its a resource conserving crop and suited very well for southwest kansas. Its already and can be made to be profitable. Because that was our goal. All of that combined, to get to the bottom line on it, we saved, and six years, weve saved 8008 hundred 87,000 acrefeet, or put that in terms of gallons, thats 1. 2 billion gallons of water that we saved. By changing rotation, by using the technologies that are out there, thats real water. And that will be there for my son, for my grandson, and for the way of life that we chose to live. So, very happy with that. I do use, utilize state programs. I get asked sometimes one of you use the federal programs. The reality of it is this, the state is simple. If they will cost share meter with me or telemetry with me, depending on what the year brings. I could be very flexible. Unfortunately with the federal programs, they mean well, but the flexibility is not there. So i cant afford that given the ever changing climate and what i have to deal with from an environment perspective. I have to have maximum flexibility. So one of the asset i would have is that we construct this new farm bill. If we put anything in there, remember one side does not fit all in the key to this is flexibility. The other thing you have to look at his risk. In todays margin, it puts cost where they are and its hard to get a farmer to think outside what has worked for him because he doesnt want to lose his farm. So incentivizing that change would be good. Anyway, im out of time, but i appreciate you listening to me, but i want to tell you this. This problem is real, it cannot be kicked down the road. Cannot be kicked down the road, at least in western kansas. I look forward to answering any questions you might have, and thank you for letting me be here. I would say if a colorado producer was here they would talk about their children and grandchildren, i appreciate your focus. Dr. Herbert . You have the last word and then we go to questions. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member and members of the subcommittee, thank you for having me today, im seeing scientists for north americas leader in voluntary incentive space and conservation. I appreciate the opportunity to testify on behalf of this regarding the water crisis, waters at the center of what we do as an organization. Western states have laws between 20 and 90 of original wetlands through conversion of wetlands. Others have been lost of source water for other uses. It will come to no surprise that drought is further exacerbating. This is had a profound effect on other wetland dependent wildlife, as well as the important ecological functions it provides to people by capturing floodwater, augmenting river flows, recharging deep aquifers and regulating climate. The situation is dire, and when i can i want to offer solutions on the Farm Bill Program and other programs like the National Wetlands conservation act. Wetland restoration in colorado and kansas can be part of the drought mitigation solution. We have heard from other witnesses about flow retiming. Wetlands tend to regulate by capturing water during snow mounts and flood times and directs the water through shallow surface flows, providing a constant subsurface discharge to streams during drought times. Other multiple partners in public and private entities deliver the augmentation wetlands in colorado to direct water during high flow snow melt times where it slowly infiltrates into the aquifer and returns to the river over time. These projects offset agricultural well depletion, supplement baseload during dry times and provides habitat for wading birds, cranes and other threatened and endangered species. It plays a role in recharging aquifers. It works with usda through the safe program and other partners in the southern high plains to restore wetlands. As the Ranking Member knows too well, the aquifer is being depleted at an alarming rate, but scientists estimate that is 10 to a thousand times higher than recharge rates in wetland systems, and they contribute up to 95 of the aquifer recharge. By restoring this, we can pollute improve water security and provide important habitat. Please, among other wetlands are the subject of a newly funded usda project and partners from u. S. Gs, and six date and trouble universities examining the Climate Mitigation potential of the program. Previous Research Indicates these grasslands are important carbon reservoirs. Water efficiency is another important component, especially areas in Western States where it can be difficult to supply enough water to support a human population, globally important Agricultural Industry and vital habitat for other wildlife. The climate irrigation project supports tens of thousands of wetland acres and hundreds of thousands of acres of proper land requiring 440,000 acrefeet of water annually. This year slated to receive only 50,000 acres or 11 of that demand. Tule Lake National wildlife refuge, once the most important water refuge in america, will receive no water and be completely dry. In a typical winter in the Central Valley of california, six and 8 million ducks and geese rely on wetlands. This year rice planting will be around half of what it normally is. It is an important commodity and provides nearly half of all water food in the Central Valley. The rest of the wetlands in the Central Valley of california are slated to get 20 or less of normal Water Supplies. While there is no single solution other than increase no pack and more rain, which is becoming increasingly unlike her unlikely, we can implement more water efficient practices to better use what we have. To meet water demands in california, water is delivered through an elaborate system and as infrastructure, but the systems are inefficient. Working with multiple partners on two projects, deals pursuing design and Construction Projects to replace leaking size fiends and canals. These projects will create 47,000 acrefeet of new and improved Water Capacity and provide reliable water delivery to 29,000 acres of Agricultural Land and 9000 acres of wetland. As drought continues to worsen, we want to ensure our policies are maximizing maximizing water efficiency to minimize conflict between water users. Working with public and private partners, including the usda, it will advocate and implement multibenefit projects to maintain and support human use. Thank you, and im more than happy to answer any questions you might have. Thank you, i would like to think their witnesses for your substantive sober testimony for coming in out five minutes. We really appreciate that and i would say we are going to turn around to fiveminute questions for each of us. Im going to start with you and ask you, assuming we move forward with the changes to our water use and no meaningful asked no meaningful change in the climate, kane described what you think the Colorado River basin look like in 20 or 40 years . Can you give the committee a sense about what is happening in lake powell and lake mead as well . Absolutely, they q senator. I would say 20 or 30 years from now, the Colorado River basin will be a starkly different place if we dont act quickly and act intelligently. All of the Scientific Consensus is clear, that we are facing a situation where we can expect additional cuts to the flow of the Colorado River as great as 30 . 50 reduction from 20 years ago. This is in a river system that is already over appropriated and overly used. Wet that means is we will have great conflict between our growing cities in the river basin in our National Food supply. It means that the price and value of water will exceed the current value of Agricultural Production water and it is likely that our agriculture and the Colorado River basin will be greatly diminished. It is a situation that is dire, frankly, i talk about our family farms and ranches in western colorado, but the reality is, our farmers throughout the Colorado River basin feed america. You look to the lower basin in any of us who have enjoyed a salad in the winter, its coming from yuma, arizona or the imperial district. Its watered with Colorado River water. We simply cannot see that disappear over the next 30 years. Today, that massive system of reservoirs as the two largest, lake mead, hoover dam and lake powell. You may have read in the paper that the states in that apartment interior are very cooperatively this year and acted some extremely shocking emergency actions and did so on the space of two weeks of dialogue. We are talking about a water barack acre c that moves at the pace of melting glaciers 200 years ago, not todays pace. And it came together because what the reality is, that lake powell was predicted to drop below minimum power reduction at the lake. And thats bad enough because the western United States depends upon that cheap power coming out of the reservoirs. But its even worse when you look at the infrastructure issue associated with that. That leaves us with two outlets out of Glen Canyon Dam and the concern at the bureau of reclamation was that those two river bypass outlets would actually cavity it like they did in the 1980s and erode the concrete tunnels that pass that water because they appear not to be functioning as they were designed in the early 1960s. The concern was that we would not be able to pass water to the lower basin at all. Not no water in the grand canyon, no water for california, no water, for nevada. And that is a stark warning to all of us. We were within months of hitting that level and lake powell. We moved water around, didnt release as much out of glen canyon down through the grand canyon this year, about half an acrefeet. We moved another half million acre up in wyoming and utah down into lake powell. These are onetime fixes, these are one moment in time. We dont have any more of those iv bags, as i call them, upper basin reservoirs. The three reservoirs that sit, that the federal government controls that sit above lake powell are stated from 23, 27 and somewhere around 50 full, respectively. They are stark and empty. This years snowpack, as we sit here today, has melted a full month earlier than the average runoff. Our runoff peaked at about 50 of average runoff, as i referenced in my written testimony last year we had an 89 snowpack in the colorado basin. Close to average. The inflow into lake powell, where it really matters, was less than 37 . So the change in the heat is just killing this river. So, i would say that we need to act in a way that supports our agricultural community, and i think the federal government and through the department of agriculture has a tremendous ability to do that with our producers handinhand. I will reserve my other questions until my colleagues have a chance to ask theirs. Senator marshall . I will pass it and come back. Thanks for being here today, very interesting, im from alabama, we have a lot of water. We dont have this problem, but i spent a lot of time out west and im a big duck hunter. I understand your problem and it is a huge problem. I have been on lake powell several times. What a mess. We know we got a problem, why do we have a problem . We have to figure out the problem before we could get a solution. As a governors, is it sending too much water to the cities . I knows dallas and fort worth are draining the aquifer in north texas. They are sending millions of gallons a day. So, why . Why are we in this situation . Who wants to take it first . Anybody else one to answer this . Climate change, im fine with Climate Change, but why, how do we stop this. I might take the first crack at that, i would say, twofold. First, the majority of the Western States fall under this doctrine, individual water rights are private Property Rights dedicated and owned by the owner of the property. A lot of times that development happen in clear back in the 1800s and by 1970, 1980 we really didnt have adequate data at that point to have a good handle on what the situation was going to be. So thats part of it, lack of understanding at the time we were reallocating the water supply and water rights. The second is, as we think about it, from a standpoint of making those decisions, we use the best of the Data Available to us at that point, our history, you are the chairman talk about the fact that the west has been dry for 12 years. We dont have the records to make decisions on. At that point we had 50 to maybe 100 years of records and if you look at the overall history of the record, we allocate a lot of that water supply for a fairly wet time. Soe consequently, in a lot of places, over allocated the resource into that in a private property right situation. We certainly want to respect it and it puts us in a situation of how do we manage a situation we thought we had at the top at the time the water rights were issued . It has been pointed out that the question is is it urban versus agriculture. Whether its agriculture or urban it will take all of us to resolve this. We have this problem and, you look at it and you say, the climate is changing, which obviously and moves back and forth, but is it because we are concentrating more people in one area and they stop the water from coming down south. This the end of the food chain. In south arizona. So we have to figure out the problem. We cant just throw money at something thats not going to help. Anybody else want to answer this . Where do we start i will give you more time because i think its a good question. Dr. Schultz, did you want to take it . Thanks for the question senator, i can mostly speak to the research on forest fires, thats my area of expertise, but i could say that we see a lot of data that indicates because of the Climate Change, human caused Climate Change, we see significant increases in temperatures, which is leading to brain not falling as snow, so we have different timing of water evaporating. Low to no snow futures. Why is it happening . Because its getting hotter and then we are having changes in precipitation patterns. For example, theres predictions we will see much more intensive flooding after fires because atmospheric rivers will have , and have extreme rainfall in the summertime then we ever seen before. The increased temperature is leading to changes in how and when water is coming and changes in precipitation patterns. If we look at patterns for forest fires, for a while we were talking about the fact that the pacifier in our fire prone forest was why we saw more fire. Climate change effects this is when i talked to my fire scientist colleagues that say Climate Change and increased heat is leading to higher temperatures, different relative humidity, wind speeds and increase behavior and winds we have never seen before. Their paper came out and said there were three times the amount of fire in the high elevation that has ever been seen on the record. To a large extent we could thick about how to adapt to Climate Change, how do we live with it, but we do for the forest in the meantime, but how do we reduce carbon emission and slow Climate Change . Thats ultimately where the solution wise. Quick senator marshall. Thank you again. I think i will start with mr. Lewis. On the same topic of managing flood, it seems like we are having more flood events, how can we manage that water from rivers that are flooding and store them better . We talk about this in kansas for decades. How do we take advantage of that situation . Any thoughts . If we look at the situation in our part of the world, the central United States, the forecast longterm models would say that we get abruptly the same amount of precipitation but in more intense events, maybe even more time in between the events. What that means is you manage the water and we have to go back to where we are at, maybe in the middle part of the last century as was just mentioned. We may see much more intense rainfall and that can lead to more flooding if we dont have the infrastructure to cap to capture that and we put that to use once the flood passes. To see anybody c being successful . I keeping about natural spillways and ways to manage that spill water. We see more and more demand from our cities and urban centers for water. We see in texas and california. In north texas there was or were present were that was permanent and is being built, which is about 13,000. Thats probably the largest reservoir being built in the United States at this point. That had to be done by the local water supply district. The federal government and state governments are not in the business of building storage and managing that type of infrastructure at this point. Minus my next question, we will see if we have time for everyone else. In the federal government conservation programs, i will come to you first, whats working for Water Conservation, whats not working, how would you improve Water Conservation if you were writing the next farm bill, what would that look like to you to give you more flexibility . First of all, yeah, flexibility is the key, may be shorterterm programs. The key to getting, in my opinion, is to be able to incentivize the producer to try to do new technologies without feeling like he will lose his farms if things dont work. Production agriculture. So the willingness to step out of the box and say, i want to switch the way that im doing things, that could be a very hard decision, especially with the overall net farm income projected to be down. What would i do . I would mirror a little bit, like we do in kansas where we say, hey, i would go to them and like to put in probes and do this. Theres incentives for me to try this and then theyll tell me what i have to do from there. I tell them what i want to do. In my case i said i would reduce my water usage by 50 . And we were able to do that and we were able to hold net income at the same level, but i think that would be my one suggestion. What if you seen working from the federal level. Obviously the state is giving flexibility. If you were to help us direct and farm goers, what would you do to give flexibility or make this work for your people . He hit on it pretty well. Frankly, much of the programs that are dedicated to this type of activity really works for your acacian efficiency or they were primarily built coming out of the 30s in the 50s with dust bowls and they were focused on conservation. Very reliable goals and important activity. They are really difficult to take the same programs and apply them to the type of things he just talked about. And i think more focus on Irrigation Technology and Water Management. May be some of the resource and some of the Program Start that would be helpful to the right direction from the federal side. If i could just add, i appreciate that question, i would say there are a couple of things. In our district, we deal with both the nrcs and the bureau of reclamation in the far west. In the problem we have is that the two agencies have completely different need for compliance prophecies. We have projects where we combined the money from the two agencies together with state and local money and we end up spending years doing extra compliance because we end up having to comply with the Bureau Policies and then the nrcs policies. We would love to see a farm bill that directs the nrcs to be able to use the u. S. Bureau of reclamation meet the Compliance Program and policy so we do that first we can move forward with both agencies. It would be tremendously helpful. The only other thing i would save, we are looking at these huge increases in prices on piping in particular, its one of our best ways to increase water efficiency and Water Conservation on farm delivery. The process that the nrcs uses to equip, often times combine both the design and the construction in one contracts, so by the time we get the design approved and get the contract approved, the construction prices have escalated as much as 100 in the original Contract Price cannot cover the delivery systems. We would ask you would consider supporting and reestablishing the index payment rate Program Within the nrcs and authorizing the nrcs to break those two phases of contracting so that when we finally contract for construction, it is a realistic number and not one that is futile. Thank you senator for that testimony. Senator ray lujan is next but said senator braun, if you would like to go, since you are here, you can go next. Thank you, mr. Chair. I actually live on a farm and practice conservation my entire life. I watched with horror sometimes when i see whats happening, especially in the far west, to where it looks like agriculture is a longterm enterprise, and your main asset is your land in your water table. When that starts going the wrong direction, i dont know how you strategically make the decisions on what you will do longterm. Most other businesses dont have that dynamic in play. I would like mr. Mueller and mr. Lewis to give me an idea, especially in maybe the near west, are you as in data shape or in pending is what we see through places like california where, i dont know how owning a farm there would look like, you would say thats a longterm enterprise. You literally could run out of water. How far east is that situation for all of us to be concerned about in terms of what the future holds . Quick senator braun, maybe i could take that and we can move further east to kansas. Our farmers and the High Mountains of colorado deal with drought and are used to dealing with drought on a fairly regular basis. Many artists direct supply and we dont have the benefit of groundwater in our area. We are heavily reliant on surface water. Our farmers understand and ranchers understand that when they look up at the mountains and sea dry, they say that back 40 thats not as productive, im going to not irrigate that so i could get a maximum bang out of my most fertile soils. I think thats what weve seen over the last 22 years of the severe drought from colorado. Id say we are just as bad off as california, we just maybe dont have as many people demanding it, but we are incredibly dry. I think that developing a program where we assist farmers on a programmatic stale scale to remove that marginal agate. I would also say ag, i would say we have people moving in, getting some of what my real agricultural constituents would call hobby farmers, getting them to dry up their views in favor of food production, with a federal incentive would truly help us. Targeting those two areas in voluntary conservation programs would be tremendously helpful. Quick thank you for that question. I would say its probably in the middle of kansas and oklahoma, texas and north dakota. We talk from a water standpoint about it being two states from the semi area in the western part of the state to being more dominated to much more rainfall up towards five inches to the eastern part of the state. How much in the eastern part . 45 inches. We are at 45, about three times. Indiana rainfall. Thats right. The western third of our state we are in a water mining situation. Its like any real estate, its about location. We have some areas that have 25 or 50 years left. We have areas that may have 200 years left. I think that making sure that we tailor whatever we actually take to that individual area is key to our longterm success. One thing that hasnt been hit on yet that i think is key, and it was talked about briefly, is crop varieties and crop genetics. We are seeing, even in the western part of our stay, because of drought tolerant crops, its a normal year where 25, 50 years ago that wasnt the case on a dryland situation. Additional research dedicated to crop genetics that are wellsuited in high plains would certainly make sure that we can keep those farmers viable for the longterm. I have been a tree farmer since the late 80s. 1980s. Its great therapy for the current job. I go back to it every weekend. Force ground is a little different dynamic. Its a longer horizon, and the biggest thing i deal with whidbey invasive species. Weve got one called stealth grass that once it gets into your words you dont even know that its not native, and you to a poor harvest, and its gone from your skid trails into it enveloping the entire woods and you cant even get a seedling that will break through. I know youve got similar stuff in the west, cheap grass, other stuff that you contend with. How big a deal is that, and how much has that become a problem in the recent past . Thank you. My understanding, and i will just call you to say that thats a little bit outside of my expertise, but my understanding is that there will be insect and disease outbreaks in the west end that they will have a variety of effects. It means you will get two cycles of insects in the air because its warmer, instead of one or you will have a situation because you dont get a hard freeze the larva wont die. Part of what happen when we saw them die often california was that there was an insect outbreak in it weekend the trees. In addition to the drought and heat conditions, it caused a huge mortality event, and that can interact that can interact with fire and tricky ways. Thank you. Whenever something becomes weak or the climate is not in sync, and ill have that issue, less for low crop farming, but a big deal for forest management. Thank you. I really appreciate those questions, weve had terrible beetle kill in colorado. Its happening at the headwaters. So that when the forest dies, this basically is our water structure for the west, so i really appreciate your questioning. Senator ray lujan, my neighbors here, i think you will go next. Senator hogan, in your absence. Mr. Lewis from kansas mentioned his support of your bill with the water data act. Just want you to know your mention while you werent here. I appreciate that, mr. Chairman. Mr. Lewis, its encouraging that youre supportive of that effort. We have an incredible u. S. House member who used to work over here in the senate and the good people of new mexico saw that expertise and now shes in the house. But she really was the brains behind some of this with the work she did on similar issues in the senate. So i appreciate that. And im glad to hear across the country there is now more and more attention to the Drought Conditions that we are all experiencing. I myself, im fourthgeneration on a small farm. Some people refer to what we do as harpy farming. To us its self sustenance. We eat what comes out of that ground and so do the animals. Whether its sheep or cattle or others that may be grazing on hey or the alfalfa we are bailing, its all important when we look at the impacts. Dr. Schulz, and new mexico, and colorado, our water comes from those watersheds. From snowmelt, from accumulation. And like southern colorado and new mexico, they are all irrigation. People chuckle at what we do, but centuries ago our ancestors all right to dig three feet across, three feet down and put these head gates. We manage the water flow. In good years, everyone has Crop Production and in bad years, everyones fine. You always have to walk up that ditch. Often times its with a shovel in your hand because you see who took your water, and you have words with one another. But then the water gets through again. Whether it centuries old or relook at irrigation structures that have been constructed in conjunction with United States of america within usda, private entities that have taken these over and are doing the work, its also important. Last week i was visiting areas of new mexico where we have the lightest largest fire on record. It was started by a prescribed burn by the Forest Service prescribed by the usda. Im very concerned about what dry conditions mean and lower water yields on the front end and what that could mean to beetles and other invasive species. But im much more concerned, at least during this time and new mexico, with what good water will mean for us. Good water will mean that water conditions because the fire burns so hot, we have ash to six to 12 inches deep. The trees will come down. The actual will go into waterways. In some of these towns, 90 of the water thats for Drinking Water, these communities, they wont be able to touch it. Dr. Schultz, can you touch on that a little bit as well with fire and water . Good conditions before or bad conditions, what that means and then on the back end, with that could yield to and how we could be thoughtful about conditions before and conditions after what could because with the fire . Thank you for that question. Im certainly very cognizant of the fires you are facing in your state right now. My heart goes out to your stay in people dealing with that and it will be an issue for a long time. I live at the foot print of the canyon, peak fire, the largest fire in state history in colorado and it had an enormous impact on our watershed and i watched it because the ashram water flows are very obviously impacted postfire. One of the things we should the cabal is how we can improve our postfire Recovery Funding and strategies. That would be an area for emphasis for the farm bill, and something we will work on this summers trying to understand what people are needing and where they are running into challenges so we can inform this committee on those issues. The other thing i understand is that a lot of communities dont have backup Water Supplies, so we have seen some communities switch to a backup water supply, but other communities will have the option. They are one fire away from having their water supply shut down. We seem tremendous impacts to Water Infrastructures. For example, i think after the haven fire in colorado, it was impacts to Water Supplies for cities around denver for 30 million because of the sediment flows into the infrastructure. There are impacts into the debris actually into the system, the toxicity of the water and impacts to the structure itself, which can be hugely important to clean up. I think that all leads to the need to do more, to limit these kind of catastrophic fires, and also just recognize that they will be a bigger part of the future and we will have to figure out how to have some nimbleness with our water appreciate that, dr. Schultz. Mom there are two issues that i wanted to raise. It carries off from what was was talking about with invasive plants. There is saltpeter in our waterways, and if we could just figure out how to get Fruit Growing out of them, we would solve a lot of challenges but these things about up like crazy and they drink a lot of water. In smaller communities to take these things down gets expensive. Looking at conservation and drought mitigation, we try to plug that up, we look at smaller areas where local governments dont have the means to get that done. The last thing i will say on conservation, we need to be doing more in these specific areas with some of these are been waterways, like mr. Moeller just talked about. That is what recharges wells and keeps good trees from falling. As we find that balance, that we understand those ecosystems that exist, the Drinking Water in many of these committees would turn into ghost towns. And i thank everyone for the time. I also wanted to say with the fires occurring in mexico it is only a matter of time. We do need to write a farm bill for the 21st century that understands what we are dealing with. Two years ago in Colorado Snow fell before anybody could do any work on the landscape. All of a sudden there is no fire season anymore, that is what we are dealing with. Thank you for holding the hearing. It is always good to follow rayman, he is one of my favorites. Picking up on what the chairman said, and i will ask each one of you, if there is one thing in the farm bill that you need to make sure it is in there to help with drought, there are going to be a number of things but priority one, what is it . I would say funds in the farm bill to assist with postfire recovery, and both natural and manmade infrastructure in the high country of our watersheds, is what we truly need. So, is there something out that is targeted to that that we would build on . For instance, the equipment program. And it is wellsuited, i spoke earlier on this, that we have been running into some really tremendous issues where people who are approved for a contract and underequipped are unable to complete the project because of the inflation we are seeing on piping. Really a problem because i think everybody at the federal government and our local partners are really trying to make these things work, and spreading that limited water out is absolutely essential. I like that answer. Equip, our producers really like it, so i think that is right on the money, literally. I would echo a lot of that comment as well. Equip, making sure it has adequate funding, and also has flexibility, with the situation all across the southwest varying greatly, enabling us to target funds towards Irrigation Technology or things that are going to save water is k ey. Absolutely agree with both of you. Doctor . I was going to ask permission to say two things, but these gentlemen covered it. I wanted to also bring attention to some work we are doing with usda climate subsidies. Hubs are dedicated to working with agricultural and forest users across the region to do things like drought planning or forecasting conditions. Ive been realizing that the university could bring a lot to that partnership. Its already a partnership in place, we are bringing extension capacity to our on drought planning with climate hubs and integrating that into training the next generation workforce. And on how to communicate effectively. I think there might be potential to build that out. We see multitier partnerships with usgs and universities, and i am wondering if we need something similar on the ag and forest reside in partnership with the uspa and leveraging partnerships with universities as well. Mr. Willis . I would say, as a producer, the key is flexibility. I say that in terms of getting people to adopt technology, sometimes you have to start small. Maybe is a circle, maybe it is two, having that flexibility so they can try it and do the and see that it works. We take so many risks, and nobody wants another program that is inflexible or has a ton of reporting. If we are truly serious, and i am speaking about western kansas, and i will speak for eastern colorado, too. It is having that ability to go in and say, try this. Try it on two circles. If somebody comes to me 20 years ago and said you can cut your water usage in half and still keep your bottom line the same, i would have laughed at it. But i would have tried it. But i had several businesses, a lot of them dont have that. You didnt have to bet the farm, so to speak. I what . You didnt have to bet the farm. No. So, by doing that and having that in their. And when i am talking about plex ability too is saying we will have different programs, if you want to cut by 10 , heres a program. If you want a lower budget, here is a program. In my opinion, youll get a lot better participation because they will see that it works, and they will see that they are not going to lose their farm and get bogged down with a lot of the inflexibility that i guess we are seeing. Doctor, the northern pronunciation, so, i just want to preface your response. Mr. Willis said a couple important things, one, the program should bit the producer, the farmer or rancher. You should not make the rancher but the program. A lot of folks might say that rancher needs to put the program, but the program should fit. When you talk about flexibility, programs have to be farmer friendly. And it really is my opinion and i love to hunt and fish, my wife is a much better for sure than i am. I think conservation is a bigger benefit when they have that mindset of farmer friendly programs. Theyre the ones out of the land to live and work there every day of the week. Even on public lands, and the grasslands in our case, the forests, and so forth. Anyway, responding with that thought in mind. I agree with everything that has been said, particularly equipped, one of the programs that has worked for us has been rcppp Funding Agreement that allows us to do exactly what you are saying. Our solo health and Livestock Integration Program in north dakota has relied on interviews with renters and producers about what will work with them, and allows us to be flexible to design our contracting around what works for them. That and the program have opened the doors for that. They are also opening the doors. Everything that has been talked about is wonderful, but to execute it you need people in the field interacting with producers. The rcppp program has allowed us to get much more Technical Assistance out in the field, talking to producers about what they need, and designing programs to fit that need. And i cant say enough about the ability of a particular program to expand reach through publicprivate partnerships, and meet farmers where they are because designing those programs around those Production Systems is critical to the longevity of those programs. And i will add one more thing which is, weve made a significant effort to research and collect from producers on the financial and other Natural Resource benefits they see from conservation practices. And we have the data that says those practices are financially viable, producers will continue to do them after the contract expires, but that requires data to show the producer. And that requires us to select data. Thank you. Fantastic questions. Senator marshall . I have maybe one more question. Senator bennet, i want to thank you again for holding the hearing. One of the more informative hearings we have had. We have had a great panel. This is wagging to the senate, to solve problems like this, to make sure that future generations have water. I talk about farmers and ranchers being the original conservationists. I remember my grandfathers building terraces in the 1960s for soil conservation. And now it is our generations turn to take, those next steps as well, so i appreciate the input today. I want to close with one question for dr. Herbert, the reason my wife and i support is because you do a great job taking government dollars, the dollars you raise, and then you work with local farmers, local ranchers, and you make sure they are spent very efficiently. You spend it like youre on money, and we appreciate that. Back to my original question that you did not get to answer, you alluded to parts of it, what has not worked, what would you accentuate . All of these are great ideas, our challenge is how to prioritize the finite dollars we have. What we spend, we wanted to be spent very efficiently. This is been set by multiple other parts from producers to the scientists, but there is a fine balance between collecting data to demonstrate what works, and what does not work. I mean both biophysical data on weathers and fires, and Financial Data on how these interact with our producers and Production Systems, return on investment. So, there is a very fine balance there. For us, as i said earlier, but flexibility of some programs like rcppp which allows us to leverage public and private dollars against farm bill dollars, has been extremely important for experimenting with new types of practices. Describe a project that has really worked, what does that look like . The rice stewardship project is a great example. We have close to 100 billion in rcppp funds that are leveraged in some other bonds. We have worked with various Industry Partners and agribusiness to develop new technologies like polypipes that increase water deficiencies. Efficiencies. It is bringing together data on water efficiency and water quality, and bringing that data together with the sustenance of water across multiple highways. That Exciting Partnership was born out of the flexibility of the rcppp program and our ability to get almost 20 staff in the field to talk to producers. Thats to me the most exciting thing about some of these programs, it starts with the landowner. Thank you. Thanks, senator marshall. I have a couple quick questions. I completely agree with everything you have said about rcppp, i think that is an example of flexibility, it is outcomesbased and partnership driven, we have given the data, it is not the 19th century anymore, being able to measure those kinds of outcomes can be important to create real opportunity for us to move the farm bill forward in a way that would be useful to all of us. I wonder, before you leave, if you could talk a little bit about what the effect this persistent drought is having a bird populations in the United States. Thank you for that question, senator. I will start with a caveat that i am a water scientist, not a water fowl scientist, but i spent many years with my colleagues discussing these issues. The current drought has come at a consequence would be covered pandemic, and that has limited our ability to collect data on water fowl and other migratory birds. If we look back to persistent droughts of 2011 and 2015, we saw a drop in central california, about half the breeding population. As i mentioned before, we are looking at the Klamath Basin which once provided 2500 acres of wetland. As of last fall, there were 600 acres of wetland, that has contributed to a botulism outbreak that has killed birds. And at least in the eastern part of the northern great plains, the duck factory, we are coming out of a two year drought. I was just in the prairies in england, much better than they did two years ago, we know that at least in north dakota, populations declined 25 just over that two year drought cycle. So, the implications are profound for not just water fowl, but migratory birds that depend on these resources. The fish and wildlife statistic is that 40 of all wildlife depend on wetlands for some portion of their lifecycle. So these droughts to have a profound impact on not just water fowl, but many, many species of wildlife that are economically and culturally important to us. Thank you, dr. Herbert. Dr. Schultz, my last question to you, on accountability or priorities that senator marshall raised, what would you like to see out of the money that is in the infrastructure bill that is going to forestry, that i think of that is a good down payment. We have a much greater need than that, but still, how would you like to see that money spent, so that we are doing it well . Could you just reinforce what you think the unmet need is in terms of forestry . Thank you for that question, senator bennett. I certainly think that the estimates from the Forest Service interim partners were 40 to 60 billion over the next 10 years to really make a dent in reducing risk to communities and protecting watersheds. I think there is a huge unmet need to address investments in our forest. There is going to be a longterm need to maintain our forests. Once we invest in reducing fuels, we have to maintain those conditions to get a return on investment. Thats going to mean putting prescribed fire on those lands to keep you will lower, it is going to mean ongoing thinning and work in areas near watersheds. That something we need to think of as a nation as a longterm investment in our fireadaptive forests if we really want to maintain them for water supply and Carbon Storage. When we are thinking about where to invest, i think a 10 year strategy the Forest Service has issued makes a lot of sense. In terms of investing, dear communities and already watersheds in our dry forests is where we want to purpose our investment. There are a few other things that can guide those investments over the next two years, we know that regions and states and their state for its forest Action Planning have identified a lot of priorities. A lot of that was done over the last several years. Looking at states and local to say where are your true priorities and where you have committeebased capacity to implement them is going to be important. We want to think about this in two ways, one, where do we want to invest in terms of the forest and ecology, but also in changing our fire culture and really creating communities that are fire adapted. Where do we want to invest in the people and places that are ready to do that . The work takes a lot of capacity from communitybased partners, so we want to start where we have collaborative history in place, things like the joint Chiefs Program have been working well. We want to have a more longterm vision of how do invest in communities and places to build longerterm capacity, may be places that have not quite built that collaborative capacity and had investments in the past. We dont want to just keep invest in the same places where they have got it going on, what also build in places where we have more underserved communities. So, thinking longterm about how we build the capacity to do forestry work, to do prescribed fire, and to do cultural burning to support tribes doing cultural burning, and on and partnership with tribes, is going to be critical long run if we are going to maintain forest systems on the west. Thank you, and thank you for the panel. I appreciate what you said about why you came to the panel. Different points of view, different geographies and different perspectives and get them into a room to hash out solutions. These partnerships dr. Schultz was talking about are what we need. Buyer does not know any political jurisdiction at all, it will cross from county to federal to state land, and nobody is going to be able to solve these problems alone. The producers in this country cant solve it by themselves, federal government certainly cant solve it by itself, and i hope today is the start of being able to help align some of these goals, objectives and partnerships. I certainly look forward to the work we are going to be doing in the next farm bill to address with the landscape looks like in the 21st century, and whatever producers need, so thank you for being here today. I am really grateful. Thank you, senator marshall for being such a tremendous Ranking Member. I want to also thank your staff rooted great work rooted great work with my step as well. To the other senators who are here, thanks for showing up. We ask any additional statements or questions you may have for the record be submitted to the Committee Clerk by the end of business today, or 5 p. M. Next tuesday, june 2, 2022. The hearing is adjourned. [gavels] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2022] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [indistinct conversation]