first consider, i can't do that yet. we have to wait till we have 11. so, let me go ahead and explain the three nominees we are going to have today. we have a quorum, we can go to immediately, i think they've all been improved. we have david obligate to be that -- we have ambassador -- to the assessment secretary of the interior for insular and international affairs, and we have dr. evelyn wall to be the director of the -- research project agency energy. we have a hearing on all three of these nominations on april 28th. i've supported all three nominees and they were qualified the positions to which they've been nominate. i think that we do have support and i like to order -- which is very good. doctor obligate has been a career -- with the usgs for the last 18 years and has served as the acting director for the past year. ambassador kanter is a career member of the senior executive service and has experienced diplomat with the state department. she has spent the last two and a half years as our ambassador to federal states of micronesia -- senate confirmed her by voice. doctor wang is ahead of the mechanical injury near department at mit and has served as the associate director of the d.o.e. solid state solar thermal energy conversion center. i thank all three nominees who bring their extensive knowledge and experience to the positions, and i would urge my colleagues to vote to confirm that. we will vote our nominations once we have our quorum. now for our hearing today, which is our job hearing. moving on to the focus of today's hearing, i want to thank you all for being here today, as we discuss the western drought crisis, an extremely pressing issue that is no doubt ever-present in the minds of our western colleagues. the west is currently facing historic and mega drought in 92% of the area at large. it's facing some degree of drought. from some states like arizona, california, nevada, new mexico, and utah, that figures at 100%. in southwestern u.s., scientists have called this the worst the area has seen in 1200 years. i know the water issues out west are very different than what we have in west virginia. we are often faced with the opposite problem of flooding and too much water, other than a drought. it does not matter where you live, drought has a domino effect that indirectly spills over into the lives of all americans from the economic losses to wildfires, to food scarcities, and higher food prices. the historic significance of this period should serve as a wake up call to the entire country on the critical importance of stakeholders coming together to develop and implement drop proof water solutions that tackle both water supply and water demand. i especially -- population growth and climate change. as i've often said on the topic of climate change, i want to stay focused on actionable solutions. that will be the focus of the job discussion today. the bureau of reclamation has -- vital role to play when it comes managing western water resources and addressing water security. scarcity. president teddy roosevelt created the -- shortly after signing the reclamation act on june 17th, 1902, 120 years ago, this friday. today, the bureau of reclamation is a need nation's largest water supply, or operating over 300 reservoirs that provide one in five western farmers with the water for their crops and deliver -- gallons of drinking water to millions of people each year. but the agency is currently facing unprecedented challenges. given historic lows and declining levels of water in many countries, largest reservoirs. and the colorado river basin, lake mead, and lake powell, have reached the lowest levels ever recorded. currently, lake mead is sitting at 29% capacity while lake powell is currently at 27% capacity. these lake levels put hydro power, which is critical to future great reliability in the west, at risk. because the water must be high enough to actually turn the turbans. in fact, the north american electric corporation or nerc said that levels to either electricity among the challenges to maintain a great reliability in the west for the coming summer. future water levels in the space and also a, graham and of water levels continue to decline it could trigger the most severe water cuts for the southwest. this is incredibly alarming to everyone. these reservoir as are a crucial source of water to households, thousands of farmers and ranchers. wildlife habitats and provide power for over 3.5 million homes. with a little entities competing for a limited water resources, the reclamation facilities provide, there are no doubt going to be some tough decisions ahead about how to equitably allocate these water supplies. last, year congress invested in western water infrastructure and provided the bureau of reclamation a historic amount of funding in the bipartisan infrastructure law. 8.3 billion dollars to fund projects that can provide short term drought relief and long term drought resilience. it provided funding for water recycling, desalination, restoring aging facilities and -- and funding for projects that provide multiple benefits for people in the environment. i look forward to hearing from commissioner putin about how the agency is prioritizing these funds to deal with our scarce water supplies and, where additional congressional action may be needed to prepare for the future. while discussion around drought has centered on water supply availability, water demand solutions must also now be part of the conversation. i've talked at length about how efficiency is a common sense way to reduce our energy consumption, and i think it makes sense to look at water through the same lens. water and energy are two sides of the same coin, it takes a lot of energy to treat the water we use in our everyday lives and it takes substantial amounts of water to produce energy. given the current drought and high energy cause we're seeing across the board, water conservation and efficient water use are the lowest hanging fruit to managing our demand. i understand there are tools available that can help with western communities make investments to conserve water. one such tool was a bureau of reclamation's water smart program. this program was specifically designed for infrastructure and water conservation and efficiency improvements. to help communities respond to water scarcity, conflicts across the arid west. one thing we can all agree on is a collective approach is needed to adapt to these tough conditions. because they're only somebody ways to split to such a critical and limited resources. i would for to learning from our expert witnesses on where opportunities exist, to further invest in both water supply and water demand. finally, a long term coordinated drought effort is going to require flexible water management, strategies and meaningful investments at the state and federal level. the bottom line is this. water is the most essential resource to the health of our people, our economy and our environment. a prolonged drought has become a frightening new norm. it's going to take effort and collaboration from all parties involved to commit to implementing sustainable drought solutions. recognizing this reality is critical. so, i look forward to learning more and discussing how we can better manage and conserve the limited water resources that are the lifeblood of so many economies and communities. i will now turn to senator barrasso for his opening marks. >> thanks so much, mister chairman. as you and i know, we have a great win on block but to all nominees today once we have a quorum. i will support doctor david allocate to serve as the director of the united states geological study at the director of interior. doctor obligate is exercising the delegated authority of the u.s. gfs director. he's held numerous positions in that agency it is the largest civilian water, biological science agency. and his hearing doctor applegate, prioritize the mission of the agency and safeguarding its scientific independence to ensure the information and publishers are not tainted by politics. this is imperative and i'm going to be watching closely to make sure he follows through that commitment. additionally, i support ambassador cantor to serve as the assistant secretary of insular in international affairs. and we now have a quorum, so all move on to say that she currently serves and has worked in and i believe we'll do a fine job and also support our travel and wang, to serve the director of the advanced research project of the department of energy. so, thank you, mister chairman. if you want to move ahead with the vote, all the way my opening statement. >> thank you, senator. now we can vote on the three nominations. unless any senators want to roll call a vote on any of the nominations, i ask unanimous consent that we take up all three nominations in blocking that we have a voice vote of all three. is there any objections? hearing done, that will be in the order and we have a second. the question is on the nominations of dr. david apple gate to be the director of geological survey, cantered to be the -- for international affairs and dr. evelyn weighing to be the director of the advanced research projects agency. with the recommendation that nomination be confirmed. all those in favor say aye. opposed? the ayes appear to have, it the ayes do have it and the -- that we can get our business meeting. with that, we will go back to senator barrasso for his opening statement. >> thank you so much, mister chairman, for holding this important hearing today on the devastating drought that we are living through in the west. first, i want to welcome path o'toole of slavery, wyoming to be at the committee today as a member of our panel. mr. o'toole, thank you so much for agreeing to testify today. you've been here in the past testify, you always provide valuable insight and i'm glad you're here to provide that insight today on this important topic. mister chairman, i'm going to give a more stats of introduction of pat, who is formerly a member of the wyoming legislature, when we get to that point in terms of witness testimony. extreme drought is a serious concern to all westerners. but especially to a small, rural farming and ranching communities and wyoming. drought can create conditions for catastrophic wildfires, that threaten homes and communities. according to the national inter agency fire center, over 27,000 wildfires have already burned close to 2 million acres this year. all across the country. it also decreases recreational and tourism opportunities, reduces related jobs or address was on public lands and now, according to the national oceanic and atmospheric administration, 36 national parks over 400 ski resorts and over 1500 reservoirs are experiencing moderate to exceptional drought. travel impacts energy production and availability. low water levels to and the operator of a hydro dams, which provide a significant amount of carbon free electricity to western communities. you mentioned that your opening statement, mr. chairman. lack of water availability also threatens hydraulic fracturing. this is a process which produces abundant supplies of clean, natural gas. jack tonight's water to valuable raising brands and alfalfa feeds, necessary for feeding and raising cattle. this can result in significant economic impacts to communities that require rhetoric to create jobs. when farms and ranches stop producing because of a lack of water, it has just put farmers and ranchers out of work it increases the cost of food. this it's families in the west and across the country who can afford it the least. american families are dealing with skyrocketing inflation and record-breaking gas prices at the pump. the highest in history today. it can't afford a grocery drought packs on top of all of that, which is going to clearly bust family household budgets even further. the problems and impacts of drought are clear, what westerners need our solutions. this means we need solutions to help upper basin states like wyoming be in compliance with their obligations to other colorado river basin states. these solutions include providing flexibility on the operation of bureau reclamation facilities, to better manage water resources. we also need to develop better data to understand how much water our state and other states are using an account for that use. improved it is going to help us understand with the drought is doing to our states and to our water users all across all sectors. better forecasting data will also help identify drought related problems before they arise. we also need to invest in additional water storage opportunities, to more effectively use the water that we do have. building more water storage will give wyoming another state cylinder they need. it will provide system resiliency and will help maintain stream flows to benefit fish and wildlife. the stakes cannot be higher, mister chairman. we need short and long term solutions that provide westerners the water they need. any policy that do not ensure the health, safety and economic well-being of american families first are not policies worth pursuing. more water storage improve federal flexibility, better data and improved forecasting can help accomplish these goals. upper or lower basin states benefit from working together to address the drought and accomplish these goals. again, thank you mister chairman, and i look for hearing from the witnesses. >> thank you, senator barrasso. if i can now introduce our panel of witnesses. we have joining us today, we have the honorable camille touton. she's a commissioner about the bureau of reclamation at the u.s. department of interior. we have mr. john entsminger, director of the southern nevada water authority. and we have dr. morris hall, vice president of climate resistant water systems that the environmental defense fund. we have mr. pat o'toole, president the family farm alliance, which senator barrasso's great introduce. finally, we have mr. charlie eastern, a specialist in natural resource policy at the congressional research service. i want to thank each and every one of you for being here and taking the time to be with us today, to help educate us. now, to the witnesses opening remarks. first of all, i'm going to start with mr. o'toole. and i would like for senator barrasso to properly introduce you. >> well, thanks so much, mister chairman. and i could take this moment just to introduce pat o'toole of savory, wyoming, who's going to be testifying shortly. he is the president of the family farm alliance, also a cattle and sheep rancher and a hey grower. he's a member of the family farm alliance's board of directors since 1988 and is named as the organization's fifth president in march of 2005. he's a former member of the wyoming house of representatives. he and his wife sharon live on a ranch that has been in the family since 1881, which was nine years before wyoming even became a state. the o'toole family and the latter ranch for the recipients to the 2014 wyoming leah pulled environmental stewardship award. as a graduate from colorado state university in as a strong background in irritated our culture. his understanding of the water needs of rural, western ranch and communities in the upper basin is going to provide valuable for today's hearing. so, pat, again, thanks for making the trip, thanks for joining us today, welcome to the committee. >> thank you. >> now, we'll start with our witnesses and the honorable misses touton, if you would. >> good morning, chairman manchin, ranking member barrasso and members of this committee. good morning to the panel. my name is camille clam len touton and i am the director of the bureau of reclamation. thank you for this ongoing dialogue of the very important issue of water across the west. the panel can talk about the specificity of how the drought impacts agriculture, communities and ecosystems. i will focus on the management of the system and the actions reclamation is taking to manage this moment and into the future. my written testimony goes into more specifics on the actions in which we manage our hundred and 89 projects, but you'll see a similar fact pattern in every major river basin. hydrological variability, hotter temperatures leading to earlier snow melt, dry soils, all translating into earlier and low runoff. this is coupled, at the committee as mentioned, with the lowest reservoir records on record. there is so much of this that is unprecedented, and that is true, but unprecedented is now but reality and orban with reclamation must manage our systems. a warmer drier west is what we are seeing today. a commission is responding, basin by basin, to mitigate the effects of a drying landscape. we are utilizing our operational and financial authorities as we take on this challenge, based on the best available science and the whole of government approach. we take these actions on with our partners across the west. here are a few to date. we are maximizing our financial resources, we reprogram to hundred million dollars of f i-21. we received 210 billion dollars in fy 22 from congress and we immediately put that work for drought and wildfire activities. fy 22, we also selected 56, projects funded 53.5 million in water smart grants across the western united states. we are using our operational flexibilities. and the colorado river, we have the 500 plus plan that is engaged in the lower basement states to include tribal, agricultural and municipal users. in the upper basin last month, we announced two separate trout response actions that will help increase lake powell by a -- over the next several months to help preserve it impact power pole. implementing the bipartisan infrastructure law and last month reclamation announced 46 project selections for aging infrastructure and extraordinary maintenance, totaling 240 million. we have funding opportunities available for water recycling, desalination, water efficiency projects, and those are announced throughout this year. this friday, on our birthday, we will be breaking ground on the first hundred million contract for safety at the ethicists in california. this friday, reclamation will celebrate 120 years before we were created by congress. the challenges we are seeing today are unlike anything we have seen in our history. the science of the symptoms across the west, especially in the colorado river basin, indicate one of immediate action. and we rely on our hundred 20 year track record of partnerships to solve these challenges and will continue to do so. but in the colorado river basin, more conservation and demand management are needed, and addition to the actions already underway. between two and 4 million acre feet of additional conservation is needed just to protect critical levels in 2023. it is in our authorities to act unilaterally to protect the system. and we will protect the system. but today, we are pursuing a path of partnership, we are working with the states and tribes and having this discussion. i have the faith and confidence of a century's track record in reaching a consensus solution. but faith alone is not alone, we need to see the work, we need to see the action. my ask of congress today is to keep pushing us back to the table. and to my partners, to stay at the table until the job is done. the nearly 6000 reclamation professionals of today are part of a rich legacy of americans who are renowned for harness and cutting edge technology, who inspired our nation through the great depression and world war ii and continue to help sustain the life and livelihood of the american west we know today. working with our partners and serving the people in the communities of the american west is how reclamation has met and overcome its many challenges and will continue to do so in the future. thank you. >> thank you. now we will have mr. entsminger. >> chairman manchin, ranking member bourassa, senator cortez masto and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to address you on this issue of critical importance to both nevada and the western united states. when it with john entsminger i, i'm the general manager of the southern nevada water authority. i am not a person prone to hyperbole but i can show you, from on the ground, that the ominous tenor of recent media reports is warranted. it has been a slow motion train wreck for 20 years is accelerating and the moment of reckoning is near. wow the situation is objectively bleak, it is not in my view unsolvable. it is little we can do to improve the colorado river's hydrology. the solution to this problem, and isolation i don't mean refilling the reservoirs but rather avoiding potentially catastrophic conditions, is a degree of demand management previously considered unattainable. nobody's efforts are a case in point. with only 1.8% of the rivers allocated flows, we are little more than a rounding error. lake mead loses twice as much water to evaporation then we use each year. however, this tiny volume of water sustain 70% of the states population. our population has increased by 800,000 people over the last two decades, but our water consumption last year was 26% less than at the turn of the century. we achieved this by pursuing, paying customers to replace crowds with trip arrogated plants, setting mandatory irrigation schedules and strictly enforcing water waste rules. we have removed enough grass to lay a roll of solid all the way or crown the earth. and we're not done. in addition to even tighter restrictions on turf, our sites are now set on approving irrigation efficiency and reducing evaporative cooling. there are headwinds along this journey, including reluctance of the business community to embrace conservation and esg metrics that value energy efficiency over saving water. our key in bandages that we capture and recover virtually every drop of indoor water. this is why continued financial and administrative support for project on the las vegas wash, green infrastructure through which we return water to lake mead, i so important. we also encourage federal support for large-scale water recycling projects for communities without access to large reservoirs. and engaging my colleagues in other states, it is clear they recognize the urgency of the situation and are ramping up their conservation efforts. however, and there's no way around this, cities alone cannot address this crisis. not because of a difference but because we simply don't use enough water to tip the scales. as in the cities, the primary consumptive use in the agricultural sector is grass. around 80% of the colorado river is used for agriculture and 80% of that 80% is used for forage croft's like alfalfa. i'm not suggesting farmers stop farming, but rather that they carefully conserve crop selection and make the investments needed to optimize irrigation efficiency. my view has always been that you can't improve officials he unless you measure it. so, i strongly support that current open e.t. bill, senate bill 25 68, sponsored by senator cortez masto. this legislation will provide access to more consistent, accurate water use data that is currently possible. by reducing the use of colorado river water, agricultural entities are protecting their own interests. if lake pull reaches dead pool, that is irrigation will be further reduced. but we could still be critical needs because we have invested 1.4 billion dollars on local funding to secure our access to water. however, at that same elevation, california, arizona and mexico will be cut off entirely because water simply can't escape from lake mead. we are 150 feet from 25 million americans, losing access to the colorado river. and the rate of decline is accelerating. the burden of shortage cannot be borne by any single community or sector. rather, i urge every user of the colorado river to follow our lead and do all they can to preserve what remains of the lifeblood of the southwest. our collective futures depend upon it. thank you for your time. >> thank, you sir. now we have dr. hall. >> thank, you chairman mansion, ranking member perez and committee members, for the chance to speak to you today and this most urgent issue. etf's mission is to build a vital earth for everyone and our waterworks supports water supply systems and provide the water we need for fish and other wildlife cities farms,, and rural communities. the commission, mr. entsminger and the chairman have already made clear the urgency of the moment. so, i will focus on some things we can do to address this emergency. my first major point is that we need the broadest portfolio of tools that we can assemble. this challenge is just too big for one single solution. thankfully, we do have options but we have to manage, for the rain and snow patterns that climate scientists tell us we're in for, not for the patterns we long for. this means we have to adjust to less water use. our tool box should, indeed, include some targeted water supply enhancement, but we must have an increased emphasis on tools for reducing the demand. we also need actions that directly respond to the compounding risk of climate change. in a, word we must build resilience. the portfolio strategies needed include some familiar actions like municipal conservation, reuse, recycling, water saving agricultural practices. and it also includes infrastructure investment. with these investments, they must extend to our long neglected natural infrastructure, our watersheds, streams, rivers and hawkers. i want to highlight one specific strategy that deserves attention called multi benefit land repurposing. this resilience tragedy emerge from a huge collaboration with a range of partners in california, sand waukegan valley. where even with some supply advancement, study suggest half 1 million to 1 million acres of agricultural land will have to come out of production because of lack of water supply. now, to avoid this devastating outcome, the state of california recently committed $50 million to launch an innovative new multi benefit land repurposing program. the intent is just your transformation of the central valley toward a water resilient agricultural region by supporting the repurposing of previously irritated land into a mosaic of vibrant new land uses that require less water. and that provide other needed benefits for the community. benefits like habitat quarters, recreational space for families and recharge to groundwater. the demand for this program from managers and farmers is already twice the funding we made available, and we expect that the man to grow. that concept is adaptable to other places. with local collaboration. stakeholders with different priorities can tailor this approach to address the unique physical, cultural and economic conditions of the region. this brings me to my second major point, that is durable solutions we need are going to come from good faith collaboration. and addressing the challenge we now face is going to require and unprecedented level of collaboration. we need to look at examples like the -- river basin plan and invest in them. as an yakama, it can no longer be just the auto agency is making the decisions. we need everyone's best ideas and perspectives in the game, that includes the tribes, the disadvantaged and rural communities and environmental interests. my last point. to accelerate and make that collaboration successful, we need good information. this means supporting the long-standing efforts of federal programs like the usgs and and our cbs. we also need new tools, that the open e.t. platform. the drought conditions we are seeing today should be a blazing wake up call for bold and innovative action. and how we respond now will shape the future of the rural communities and agriculture across the west and the economic health and quality of life for the whole region. atf stands ready to continue our collaborative efforts, work with you in a range of partners to meaningfully address extreme drought in the west. thank you. >> thank you, sir. now, we have mr. o'toole. >> thank, you mister chairman and senator barrasso. appreciate the kind words. it's an honor for me to be here, you can't imagine what it's like to come from wyoming and come to the capital and be in this building in this room. it's truly amazing to me. you know, the advantage of being further down the line after other testimony as being able to react a little bit. a couple of things i heard was take land out of production, do different crops. we've heard that for years and years and years. i was on a federal water commission appointed by president clinton 25 years ago, took 20 years into the future. what was water going to be like in 20 years? and the answer was always take water away from agriculture. well, the reality is, here's the reality. i've heard the word unprecedented use more than i ever have in a session, because that's what we're involved in, and unprecedented situation. we also are about to do with agriculture what we did with manufacturing atletico overseas. the numbers of food production coming out of this country to take our markets has changed the fundamentals. and when our farmers and ranchers are trying to do is figure out how to be successful in the future. i put my family, that started with my wife's great-grandfather trailing horses from eco pass, texas to wyoming in 1881, to raise forces for the army. we've been added a long time, we've seen the ups and downs, the 30s, the drought, the creation of the conservation districts. in my perspective, representing the growers that grow every crop that's grown in the united states, every livestock that comes from this country remembers a family of the farm alliance. i tell you, the stress our people are feeling, that is unprecedented. because their families are under attack. i have to do is read the new york times, l.a. times, any of those newspapers who pick up on we can solve everything by demonizing fall farmers. it's gotta stop, because we are at an unprecedented lack of sustainability and replacing ourselves. to me, the thing that breaks my heart the most is to hear a a farmer or ranchers hated their children, don't do this because there's no future and it. i've heard it too many times because of the economics, because of the water. now, all the other inputs that we have. i do a lot of different things, i've been on multiple boards, i've been with the family farm alliance for many years. i want to glasgow this year, the climate meetings. i'm chairman of a group on migratory birds in the western states. we do conservation, our valley, it's unprecedented the amount of conservation we're doing. i spent 14 years building, as a legislator and then try to permit a reservoir that saved our lower valley years ago. we're trying to build the second one. but we need to realize is there are impediments to our best wishes. his committee has a reputation for unanimous votes, where people work together. that's going on for a long time. we need unanimous coordination of allowing the process to work. storage is going to be critically important and even more important, in my mind, on the colorado river. i live 25 miles from the head of the continental divide, the forest. the forests are broken and i will give all the compliment i can to the bureau of reclamation, which i work with through the alliance, but other agencies, i grades with my entire operation in the forest. it is dead. it is not generating water, the headwaters of the colorado river is not generating near the numbers of acre feet that it should be because the forest isn't functioning. what we need to do is take the law is in the efforts and the dollars that have come through that recent infrastructure bill and put them into place. i spent sunday with a major national group and some conservation people, talking about how we redo the forests so that it generates the kind of water that it could. i spent last week with the forest service, nature conservancy, on the national forest walking. where i rode horses my whole life. an elephant couldn't walk for now. and we need to empower those people that want to do things to actually do what you all have said you would do. that's the problem, we're not acting in the way we know how to act. it just breaks our heart because we know what to do. senator -- it's probably the best implementer of policy in the united states. i was with him sunday talking about the frustration and it may sound cynical, but what covid has done in my world is we are prisoners of a bureaucracy that is not functioning. we have to allow -- to function and if there is one message that's coming from farmers, let us do what we do. we can't give up our production to the third world, which we are in the process of doing at the expense of the third world. there were food rights in peru, where we are raising avocados and taking their major crops here. we need to reverse this. the american agriculture is as powerful as it's always been and again, my message about farmers telling the children, don't farm because there's no future in it, we have to turn that around. this is as critical as anything that i can tell you and when we look at the food crisis that we think is the ukrainian deal, it isn't. it's much more complicated, it's been going on for years. if we don't act, we won't have farmers. and we won't have rural communities. it's been such an opportunity for me, i really appreciate it and i'll be happy to answer any questions. i did want to mention one thing about -- senator and that's the, you, know the infrastructure that had to be replaced was built in 1902. the roosevelt administration, not franklin, that's the infrastructure part of how important it is that we really get down and do what we know how to do. thank you so much. >> thank you, sir. mr. stern? >> chairman manchin, ranking member barrasso, and members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to the crash congressional research service to provide testimony on route in the western united states. ian him is charles stern and i'm a specialist in natural resource policy -- my comments today will focus on drought, not on any one specific location, but as a broader policy issue. in serving the u.s. congress, crs takes no position on these issues. as you know, a multi-year drought remains widespread across many western states, with some areas in an extended period of extreme drought. may 2020 through april 2022 was the second tries two year period since 1895 and arizona, california, nevada, new mexico, utah, and the fifth dries two year period since 1895 in colorado. while the west has a long history of drought, the geographically widespread nature of the current drought across these states is notable. the federal government generally differs to state privacy and surface, and groundwater allocations. therefore, state, local and tribal entities -- most government efforts to respond to drought. however, these entities often look to the federal government for relief when disasters occur. following a series of jobs in the 1990s, congress enacted the national drought policy act in 1996, created the national drought policy commission. in 2000, the commission submitted to congress its report and among other things, noted that the united states need to embrace national drought policy with preparedness. it also recommended that congress establish a federal non federal national route council to coordinate federal programs addressing drought. congress enacted some of these recommendations, for instance, creating a national integrated drought information system within noaa in 2006. other recommendations such as increased support for non federal drought preparedness were adopted administratively. current federal drought coordination efforts take several forms. congress has enacted a range of authorities related to drought, most federal financial aid for drought addresses agricultural production laws. other authorities address drought related monitoring and research, emergency drinking water supplies, and other short and long term drought response mitigation actions. multiple federal agencies contribute to efforts to predict, plan for, and respond to drought. the 2000 national drought policy commission report identified 88 drought related federal programs and this total has certainly increase since that time. as you know in 2021, congress appropriated billions of dollars to respond to drought, including new funding and disaster and infrastructure supplemental appropriations for activities that are expected to improve drought monitoring, preparedness, and resiliency. due to expected lag times and also getting these funds are multiple fiscal years, it will take several years before their effects are fully realized. outside of new funding resources, some have proposed other often in related actions to mitigate drought. our testimony broadly provides these proposals into planning and preparedness, data and monitoring, on -- and demand management. in regard to planning and preparedness, some observers have highlighted the need for better coordination of federal drought planning and capacity building programs. the biden administration has also pointed to opportunities for states and localities to utilize fema funding for job planning and mitigation. drought data collection and integration is another point of emphasis by federal federal agencies. various efforts to improve drought information and monitoring networks are ongoing. these efforts have the potential to strengthen the overall understanding of drought and -- national drought early warning system. in terms of augmenting water supplies, congress is 2016 enactment of the water infrastructure improvements for the nation act authorized for significant reclamation financial support for new water soared project construction in decades. these funds have supported studying construction at 13 projects across three western states, with more funding pending allocation. some support extension of this authority, which is largely been used to support non federal water storage projects. apart from new water storage, alternative water supplies such as water reuse, recycling, and desalination is an area where federal support has facilitated development. -- but depending on the technology, water source, and location involved. and are influenced by financial regulatory and political context. some in congress proposed increased prioritization for alternative supplies, with multiple benefits for stakeholders or for projects that are constructed in rural areas. groundwater storage, awkward for recharge, and other similar projects are also viewed as an alternative to surface water storage. congress has enacted but not funded authority for reclamation to support these projects. federal support for other state and local efforts to respond to drought including various efforts to manage demand for water during times of scarcity are also areas of consideration. we discuss these and other options in our written testimony. this concludes my remarks. i would be pleased to address any questions you may have at the appropriate time. >> first of, all thank you all very much for your testimonies and what we are going to start our question now. i understand senator kelly has to go to -- hearing and a few else are going to start. >> thank, you mister chairman and thank you everybody for being here today. commissioner to, good to see you again. i think we've all established that this drought is unprecedented and i understand from her testimony, commissioner, let the colorado river is facing a structural deficit between two and 4 million acre feet of water next year. to put that amount in perspective for everybody in the room or anybody watching, arizona's allocation of colorado river water is 2.8 million acre feet. california, 4.4 million. colorado gets 3.9 million acre feet from the river. arizona has junior water rights in their allocation to the river. so if our state absorbed this two to 4 million acre feet loss, it would wipe out deliveries, water deliveries, two cities, tribes, and farms in phoenix and in tucson. but this is certainly not in the public interest, given our states national role in agthe, strategic minerals, and semiconductor manufacturing. you mentioned, commissioner, that reclamation is working with basin states to develop a consensus agreement to conserve more water in lake mead and lake powell by august. i want to make sure we understand your testimony. if basin states cannot reach an agreement is, the department prepared to take actions to impose restrictions on other states without regard to revert priority? >> thank you for that question, senator. yes, we will protect the system. but we are not at the decision point yet. so, let's get to the table, let's figure this out by august. >> when do you anticipate you might get to that decision point? >> for us on the river, the august 24 month study is usually where we determine what our operations are for the next calendar year. it's august 16th is the day that where we had the first tier one shortage announcement last year. that's what we are working towards. >> all right, thank you. so, arizona has been leading the basin in conserving water today. farms have been followed, tribes are foregoing, their full water rights allocations, cities are tightening their water budgets. we've worked to conserve nearly 850,000 acre feet in the lower basin. and arizona has done everything that arizona has been asked. we are going to continue stuffed step up here, but we need partners and long term commitments from the federal government, because this is a basin wide problem not just an arizona problem. we laid the groundwork for increasing conservation and augmentation in the bipartisan infrastructure bill that was passed, and we fully funded programs like the drought contingency plan and the 500 plus plan to keep more water in lake mead. commissioner to ten, that's california or the upper basin have a plan for how it will utilize resources under the drought contingency plan? >> those are conversations that are ongoing, including with the upper basin states and certainly with california. >> so, you don't know if they currently have a plan? >> there is the drought relief operations act that the upper basin has, but could there be more system demand management? yes. >> and will the administration be pushing mexico to conserve more colorado river water? >> this is a conversation we're having with our partners in mexico. they are fully aware, we briefed them in the way that we briefed you on what we are seeing on the river. they are absolutely a partner here that we need to work with. >> and commissioner, can the federal government move faster in deploying desalinization and water recycling projects under the bipartisan infrastructure law? >> yes, we will. >> and finally, i might go over by 30 seconds, i hope he's okay, mister chairman. based on your testimony, arizona can see tier two water curtailment as soon as next year. the first round of cutbacks last january hit farmers in central arizona, especially hard. if we don't invest more in conservation augmentation and assistance to farmers, it could raise food prices at a time when food prices are a record high. the white house -- drought task force recently called for a whole of government response because reclamation have a cost estimate for the resources needed to mitigate future year shortages? >> that is something that we are talking about now, especially with the scale of what we are looking at and the magnitude of actions we need to take. but what i will say, senator, is i will spend the bipartisan infrastructure law money to make sure that we are meeting the goals as congress intended, but also to provide sustainability in the west. >> okay, and when you get that cause assessment, can you get it to my office? >> absolutely, senator. >> thank you. it appears that drought is outpacing the annual appropriations process right now. so it's faster than we are appropriating the money to deal with it. could you get back to me on how reclamation might benefit if congress expanded the stafford act for drought? >> yes, i will get back to you. >> all right, thank you, and thank you mister chairman. >> thank you, senator. -- >> mr. o'toole, we talked about, thank you for that amazing opening statement. never checked an out, spoke from the heart, very emotional, it hit every member of the panel. i'm very grateful for you being here. i wanted to ask you about the impact on food costs that the drought has brought, because you made some suggestions there. what we are seeing is a reduction of food supplies, increasing costs for american families, so to address this and provide more water, wyoming continues to advocate for things such as more water storage, to be more efficient and capturing water from agricultural use rather than letting it flow downstream. more flexibility from the bureau in reservoir operations to better manage available water supplies and better forecast data. do you agree with these steps? are they going to help to lead more food production if we do those things? >> thank you for that question, senator. i absolutely do end our written testimony, as you can, tell and it's full of specific recommendations about how we make these moves forward. the thing that i would like to emphasize, though, and -- cattle and sheep industry i'm involved in, the pricing that's going to consumer has nothing to do with the producers. we are not receiving any benefit. and, you know, what i think is americas this ecological and incredible system that knows how to produce food and knows how to do rural communities. i said it in a hearing with senator bennett recently, what's happening in the amazon is a crime against humanity. we've got to realize that in places where good is happening, we have to accelerate the benefits and the base benefit for the american population is the food supply. we are giving away our food supply capability and the recommendations from the family farm alliance are specific. things that this committee has recommended, things that the -- committee has recommended, we have to start implementing. if there is one message i have today of, its implementation. please let the, you know, there is no -- in a lot of the bureaucracy right now. that's a result of covid and all kinds of things. the agencies have to have the ability to direct activities that we all agree on to get done and the permitting of the reservoir in my community that i am very familiar with is so frustrating. meeting two times a week in a no brainer process. the force services are desperate to get in and fix what they know is broken to deliver water. 160,000 acre feet does not go down the north -- river because the force is not functioning. we know that, we have to change that, and that's the case with every watershed in the western united states, where the water for the -- comes from. >> in addition, when you talk about in terms of the producers not noticing, they see the increase prices, but not having the impact effect back to them is what this past weekend was a 150th anniversary of the wyoming stalkers association -- we follow that in cheyenne. this weekend, you go to the grocery store, prices are up on hamburgers, eggs, milk, soup, things that bobby and i go to the store and buy. so we are seeing it, but as you pointed out, it's not heading back. i wanted to get to the next question, which is the -- negotiation district of collapse. you've been to this site, i've been to the site. it left more than 100,000 acres of crump landon both wyoming and nebraska without water. significantly impacted farmers, ranchers, both states. that's why i introduced this bill as 40 to 33, the platte river base in critical maintenance and repair act to secure funding to address this. would you agree that drought only underscores the need for addressing lots of aging infrastructure, such as what we saw that at the -- district of collapse? >> as i mentioned earlier, you know, about the ukrainian issue is a real issue with food, wheat, and distribution. but it is a bigger issue than that. it's a bigger issue with american farmers and food production. and what drought has done is moved ahead. trends that were happening without this kind of drought and climate driven, whatever is happening to us is so different. it's trends that have been happening because as you know, i've testified here before on the need for storage, on the need for forest, on the need, what i'm trying to give you from my heart, it's not happening. it's not happening at the pace that americans deal with crisis. we are crisis managers in america and this committee is a crisis management committee. your direction is so critical to it being implemented. >> commissioner touton, you know, many actions taken in the past to address the drought in the colorado river basin would increase the flexibility and how the lower basin states can store and use water. this is done using existing authorities. that increase flexibility has extended the lower basins access -- the availability of water supplies over the last 20 years. what comparable increase flexibility is the euro considering or pursuing for the upper basin states, like wyoming, in terms of mr. o'toole just talked about, in operation of federal reservoirs here? >> sure, thank you for that question. first, on the aging infrastructure, your report, your legislation is the basis of what we have as our framework for what we found. so, -- district and that work, top-of-the-line for us at reclamation. regarding flexibilities, that's a conversation we are having with the states. one of the flexibilities we had under -- drought relief operations act is to move water from flaming gorge down to lake powell. so, there are conversations that need to be had. it's not reclamation telling the states what to do, it has to be, what is it you need? here's my authorities and if we don't have the ability to do that, to have a conversation with this committee. >> thank you, mister chairman. >> thank you. i will be one of my question very quickly. this is all five of you and if you think about as quickly as you can, because we only have five minutes. but what role should congress and the federal government have in western drought water management going forward? mr. o'toole, you've been very direct with some of the things that you've said. this does not make sense at all. so, if we could start with -- if you can tell me what you think we can do and help you do that job better to make sure that western drought does not significantly get worse, but we can improve. >> first, thank you to this committee for the investment of a 0.3 billion dollars for just investment and storage, it's roughly equivalent in the last 18 months of this administration that the previous administration invested. so, we invested 400 and $61 million in storage alone. so, resources are always of assistance, but it's having to -- >> how quick is it going to be put? out how quickly that money be invested? >> some of, those we've already put out, frankly. there are some projects that we are working on -- in california being an example of it. >> mr. -- ? >> i think congress needs to make massive investments in agricultural efficiencies. i agree with mr. o'toole that we need to prioritize food security, but we can't balance the structural deficit by evacuating the cities. so, we are going to need to make our ability to grow the same amount of food with less water a priority. >> dr. hall? >> i think certainly one of the more urgent issues is providing the information that we need, and that includes continuing robust support for the usps and our success that manage our data systems. approving senator cortez mastiff is built implement -- in the usps. and i think more broadly, the support for giving the bureau of reclamation the broad flexibility to work with states on new approaches like groundwater management and groundwater storage. thank you. >> mr. stern? >> senator, as you know, we wouldn't at crs necessarily recommend any one specific approach. but i would say that there is more support among observers for activities that can be done from the ground up, and stakeholder driven things that may vary from one base into the next, then there is four top down more command and control types of federal activity. >> mr. o'toole, you have anything else you want to add? something you think would be the most urgent thing we could do >>? senator i testified in front of the world bank last year as part of the climate meetings i went to and the biggest word that they appreciated was scale. in a meeting with major foundations -- on the fourth, they said we are never in, and that's the problem. we are nibbling at a time when we have crisis, and we need to move the scale. >> miss touton, the bipartisan -- has provided a 0.3 billion, as you've noticed. what steps are you taking to make sure the efficient liver? that's what we concerned about, that these funds are being efficiently deliver to the source so we can basically cure some of the problems we have. >> absolutely. first thing we had with higher the hires. we hired, i want to get the number right for the record, but 86 people within the last six months. engineers, but acquisitions, grant specialists that we can get that money out. and part of this is also a level of transparency. we constantly have stakeholder sessions and briefings also on congress, so that you know what we are doing. and then finally, putting capacity where we can immediately so those can get done. rural water being an example of that and getting those resources out the door. >> thank you. senator langford? >> mister chairman, thank you. thank you for all the witnesses here as well to able -- my state is somewhat unique in this conversation today, because if you are in oklahoma, the eastern side of my state gets a tremendous amount of rain and the western side of my state is the stopping point on it. and so, we faced intense droughts in the west and we are growing tall timber in the east. so, we get this. let me walk through a couple of things that maybe you link to my state. but also may translate into other areas. moving waters pipeline and actually trying to be able to transition water from east to west at times, some of these border states and areas. is that being explored at all his options and possibilities? obviously, there's compact -- other things with other states as water continues to be able to move south across the east. but how much is that even being discussed? >> we are looking at all options, but certainly being able to utilize what's in basin, what we have within our reservoirs is our priority. a lot of our projects require observation of congress with a feasibility study, and so should that be where congress wants this to go, that's what we are doing, that's what we will do. but we will say that i'm focused on what we have now and what is in our basements at the moment. >> it has been interesting to me that in the past, we go back several years ago, we actually had to have an active congress to move water from within my state from east to west, because it was a different reclamation area, though it was oklahoma's water, it wasn't crossing any other state boundary, and it was not even violating any of our grievance with the states rounds of of water where the water ends up, just moving at east coast took an active congress to be able to move that to reclamation areas. is that something that needs to stay in place? does that become a regulatory barrier and an issue that we need to resolve? >> i'm happy to continue that conversation, senator. but oklahoma is certainly at the heart of the 100th meridian, really seeing where the drought, where the water floods happen. >> yeah, we experience both on that. interesting idea from some of the guests in the southwest part of my state that do a lot of irrigation, a lot of cotton, other things that are in that area. one of the challenges we have is power related as well. if we are going to do drip irrigation's in some of those areas to reduce the amount of water usage that's there, it's a great idea, it's a good use of water, except you also have to have electricity in those areas, very rural areas to be able to do this. this is part of the dialogue the bra regulations currently having right now about how we will manage water, to also talk about how will manage electricity and water. >> absolutely, i know you have legislation on that that i talked about earlier this month. so, i'm happy to continue that conversation. >> great. mr. o'toole, let me ask you. you make a statement in your written document about water management in the west is becoming too inflexible. you made a statement earlier about permitting regulations, it is not function now. but there is a statement to me that we are facing a regulatory drought as well as a hydrological drought. dig us a little bit deeper in that, because it seems to be an area you're focusing in on when you talk about the bureaucracy is not talking to the bureaucracy and it's locking up, and we are not able to resolve the issues there. can you give me an example of that? >> so, part of the conflict with agriculture in my world is like water, obviously, with the drought and that part. but there's also a conservation fish wildlife piece that is critically important. many acres have been taken out of production because of essay issues. for example, the changes in the nepa process are disturbing to us because we need to get things done. i've said it over and over again, and the process is not as user friendly as it could be. the regulatory -- i will use a perfect example that that national fishery is a duplicative agency that is working sometimes at odds with official fish and wildlife services. because they're fish only one, in fact, when you are looking particular today's world where you have, you, know you have birds, you have fish, you have other mammals, you have farmers, and that whole system, when it is not working smoothly, is taking acres, in fact, it's hundreds of thousands of acres out of production because of this regulatory process that our ear games have to go through. >> so what would you change to be able to make that work? >> say that? again >> what would you change to make it be able to work better than? >> senator barrasso is no longer here, but we spent really three years working on the esa process with conservation groups, for the real cross section. we didn't get it done, didn't get it across the line. we have to have a system that works and right now, we have so much duplication, and to some extent, part of what i would like to talk about, is are we doing solutions or are we doing agendas? are we going to figure out what's the solutions are and then overcome the agendas? to some extent, the litigation industry in the west has been very effective in keeping us, for example, cleaning up the forest. >> okay, thank you. thank you, mister chairman. >> senator heinrich? >> thank you, mister chairman. as you know, our western states are suffering from eradication and you will notice i did not see drought, but -- , not to mention extreme wildfires that are burning in my state, arizona, and others. but i would just start because this is a drought hearing, this is not some random event. it's frankly a direct result of the lack of action on climate that we have seen for more than 20 years, that we all collectively own that. now, dr. hall, as you know, this is a drought hearing, but we have experienced drought before and what you and others on the panel said today is that what we are experiencing is now actually unprecedented. you know, i would make the point that it's not a drought, this is our new normal. you used the word aridification, what does that mean? and how do we manage if this is the new normal? >> thank you, senator heinrich, you make an exceptionally important point. i think one important thing we have to realize is that we don't actually know how this is going to evolve. and so, we have to be aware continuously adaptive and that gets to the point that i was describing about collaboration, which also addresses some of the points about regulation, and what you can do in collaboration's you can work together in an organized way to come up with programs, and then figure out how to make them work with the different various regulations. so, on the point of aridification, we have in the past tended to view our water management through a lens of stability. i had one entire class in my graduate fork on the different distributions, normal and not normal distributions of the climate patterns in the past, and that's what we did on the -- that's class, as difficult as it was, is no longer even usable. we have to throw all of that out and increase our real time and near realtime monitoring information processing, and be prepared to make adjustments as we discover how the new climate processes are affecting our water resources. >> commissioner, i want you to share with us again how many acre feet we are going to have to conserve on the colorado basin to avoid dead pool in lake powell. and then because most people don't really understand what an acre foot is, talk to us about how much water that is and yeah, just start there. >> so, an acre foot is exactly what that sounds, like an acre of land with a foot deep of water. the way we look at that is that's enough water, roughly 325,000 gallons, for a family of four, for an entire year. and so, when you look at lake powell and you look at lake mead, this is just for critical elevations. we are looking at 2 million to 4 million feet starting in 2023 that we need to conserve. >> we've talked a lot about the colorado river basin, talk to me about the rio grande basin and what you are seeing there, and then what's actions you are able to take there to address the same patterns that we are experiencing on the rio grande. >> the rio grande is not unique to the entire west of the colorado river basin. demands of the system, tribal ecosystem irrigation, drought, as well as, you, know listed species. but one of the things that we did with elephant butte was water smart brand. so this is low hanging fruit. reclamation spent one point $8 million on efficiencies of the system. you asked me for numbers, senator, it's roughly 9000 acre feet of conserved water. so, that's real water gained inefficiencies. that's a short term, we are also looking at operational flexibilities with the system, and in longer term, helping to solve long-standing conflicts. >> thank you, chairman. thank you, senator. now we have senator lee. >> thank you so much, mister chairman. miss touton, let's start with you. the drought has caused a lot of problems in my home state of utah. you know, as is happening in some other places, to a pretty acute degree in utah. ranchers are delaying putting livestock on the range. growth is, of course, been impacted by water uncertainty and a lot of local economies are being stretched thin by virtue of their inability to access some bureau assets like lake powell. i really appreciate some of the recent actions, decisions made by the bureau of reclamation to boost water levels at lake powell, including, of course, the release of 500,000 acre feet from flaming gorge reservoir in the withholding of, it and additional 480,000 acre feet from release downriver, from lake powell. what can you tell me about the bureau's priorities moving forward, as they relate to water levels in lake powell? >> thank, you senator, and good morning. we have a great partnership with the state of utah. jeanne -- is one of the principles we work with in the basin states. what we are protecting right now is really short term. what's actions make up that two to 4 million feet in the basin to protect lake mead and lake powell? because all the actions that you mentioned after nearly 1 million acre feet that we did this year buys us a year. and we cannot be in the same place next year where we are talking about critical levels to protect power pool. so, we are spending significant amount of times. this is the priority for us between the next 60 days to figure out a plan to close that gap. >> thank you. >> yes, sir. >> mr. o'toole, i've done a lot of work on nepa reform. policy reforms in the nepa space because i agree with you, these are essential to making sure we can do what we need to do. as i've engaged in that effort, it's become apparent that some members of congress resist changes to nepa. and the responses are usually kind of interesting. they include some variation of the argument that, you know, we don't need to do this because the agencies already have authority to do this through their own existing rulemaking procedures. it's an interesting argument to make because regardless of what they've got in mind and regardless of the fact that they may have tools at their disposal to do it, they don't. because things don't change in this regard. i think in many instances, they're debilitated by a fear of litigation and that obsessive fear of litigation will understandable, makes it very, very unlikely that they impose these limitations on themselves. what do you believe congress needs to do to break the logjam, with regard to nepa? >> thank you sir categorical exclusions part of that deeper process which gives flexibility to the agencies. the river that i live on crosses a straight line 32 times, that means are belize colorado and wyoming, two floors, to be a man's, to game and fish and wildlife that have a lot of experience with agencies. it's human driven and there's a fear of failure, fear now as i expressed earlier, the agency people need to have a mission. and we're gonna have to send the message, we've sent money, there is money in the infrastructure bill to achieve, that is it gonna be achieved unless we have a mission to use the tools. i think that my personal experiences, i have the best conservation district in the u.s., i am really so lucky. to give you an example, 17% of foreign -- 90 because we have trust. we use categorical exclusion, and the surrounding conservation districts are coming to us asking how do you get, because you don't have the agency people have experience with it and because of the litigation issues that you mentioned, that i've mentioned, it's really inhibiting our ability to do what we all agree that we need to do. >> drought data collection is become a point of emphasis by some federal agencies in recent years. some proposals would go so far as to use satellites to -- evaporation and also quantify evaporative, or consumptive use in addition to evaporation. i've heard some concerns raised by some agricultural producers, overly intrusive monitoring has some potential to help could also create other problems. would leave to burdensome regulation of private water resources, do you share those concerns and do you feel they're protections that can be offered to agricultural producers to help protect their interests while also allowing for greater data collection? >> i'm a big fan of data and science, i'll tell you my new friend mr. hall, is in the process of negotiations of fat -- issues because of the potential for misuse. and we want data, i want data to do the right thing, but we've got to have some protection. as you all know, farmers seem to be decipher's of modern life, or individual business of families mostly. and we can't stand the vulnerability of litigation. i've had it happened to me in a situation where we won finally because of the state of wyoming, -- but an individual is so vulnerable and one thing we never talk about, bankers don't care about conservation. they don't care about these issues, they care about getting paid, when one individual producer sort of gets demonized because of the use of data, we want to make sure that's done in a way where those protections for those individual family producers. >> great, thank you. >> senator king? >> thank you mister chairman, absolutely important hearing. first, this is a cycle, and i found of i didn't develop it, i found an interesting chart that shows the water situation in the west over the last 1200 years. what it shows is, up and down, and we are at the second lowest point that we've been in the last one was around 1500. interestingly, the west was settled and developed during a period of relative high water. we're now in a situation where, at this low point, one of the questions as will the low point historically these drought periods lasted about 20 years. the question is, is the climate change effect gonna make a much more permanent kind of situation but anyway i'd like to submit this chart for the record. >> without objection. >> second observation, -- is constant it never changes it hasn't changed since the dinosaurs. the question is where is it. unfortunately right now it's in a lot of the places where it doesn't do you any good. in greenland, i float over to greenland in a helicopter and seen the enormous amount of water, and one day last summer eight billion tons of greenland melted. that's enough to color florida in two inches of water. the question is, how do we move water, and senator lankford adds the instituting question about pipelines. obviously a pipeline from greenland is impossible. but from other sections of the country i think that's something that needs to be discussed, it's not something we've ever thought about before, but we have pipelines for oil and gas, and we have in some areas, huge pipelines for transferring water for example new york state, down to the city. -- we need to talk about all that water in greenland, it's freshwater that's going into the ocean. so, i guess mr. hall, how feasible is a massive d.c. and economically viable is massive disallows isaiah from the pacific southwest, into this region to alleviate this problem, is that just fantasy or is that a possibility that something we can invest in and it would make a difference? >> thank you senator -- as a water resource engineer i'll tell you that we like to build things and we have studied lots of possibilities and some we've implemented, some more good ideas, some turned out not to be -- and some are just not cost-effective. so with respect to pipelines in desalination, that cost issue is certainly a big one. some of the most expensive water in the west, on the order of $2,000 an acre foot, comes from the diesel plant that was recently completed, recently in the last five years or so at carles bath, in san diego. and for san diego, who's at the end of the colorado river water distribution system. >> also adjacent to the ocean? >> yes, adjacent to the ocean with in fact and already existing outlaw to help dispose of the brine at a lower cost. it made sense as part of a resilient portfolio fruit -- and in some other targeted areas, the south does make sense. >> to reach the kind of scale to relieve this whole region is not really feasible, is that yours -- >> at this time it is not feasible. due to costs and other environmental -- >> interestingly, looking at this chart the drought sections are surrounded on both sides by more water, excessive precipitation, which suggests that senator talked about storage but also a lot of storage. a couple of years won't really solve it if you're talking about a 20 to 40-year cycle. so, storage is part of the solution also, isn't it? >> certainly, storage can be really viable. especially in our current situation, can be a helpful tool in making our deployment of the water more flexible. and most of the west, frankly there isn't enough water to fill the storage. >> i'm talking about in the 80s, there was excessive rainfall in the last. which if we could've captured that and held it for 20 years, it might have helped. let me ask one other question but an observation, fascinating experiment going on in california now of building solar panels over canals, which will generate electricity but also diminish evaporation. if you could build a solar farm on top of the lake -- you could surprise electricity for all of the west, and diminish the enormous water loss to evaporation. i'm not ready to undertake that project, but i think we've really got to think in different ways, this is as many people say, unprecedented at least it's unprecedented in the last 500 years. thank you all for your testimony. >> thank you senator king, senator cortez -- >> limbs for this important conversation today, we were talking about is drought in the west not just along colorado river. along the western states. but we have a benefit of this so many of you that have knowledge about the colorado river, i want to start there. because in nevada the colorado river is very important for our needs in the state. and mr. entsminger, i want to put this in perspective there's a lot of talk about the water, if we're just talking about the water along the colorado river, it really follows the law of the river which was implemented in wet, 1920, along the seven basin states and how they would allocate that water and share it. quite honestly if you want more water out of the colorado, you're taking it from some other state. so there was an agreement and can you talk to me, how much water is nevada allocated out of that 15 million acre field of water? >> sorry, our allocations 300,000 acre feet. >> is that the lowest amongst all the states? >> yes, by far you add up the seven states and mexico, nevada has a legal entitlement to 1.8% of the river. >> we have the seven basin states and more than -- mexico as well on colorado river. because of the lowest allocation we have, we have 3 million people in the state, and we talk a bit about what they did in really early 2020, to address the water needs the people in nevada that were taking water, including across the state, but particularly southern nevada we have most of the population. what's to the water authorities do, i think conservation's key here. it plays a great role and a story of what we've done in nevada to augment some of this water. would you talk a little bit about that? >> absolutely. i'm a biggest fan is anybody else if there is a solution to bring in more water. but what we've seen the last 20 years, it's all about conservation, it's about demand match, and are wake up call came in 2002. which is still the driest year in the recorded history of the river, when only 25% of global inflow came in. so beginning into 2002, we upped our water star landscape program, we currently pay $3 per square foot for people to remove turf. as i mentioned in my opening, we've now taken out enough turf in the las vegas valley delay an 18 inch what piece of law all around the circumference of the globe. we have very strict water wasted for assessments, we have a tiered race structure, so those use more water pay more for it, and use those funds to fund our conservation programs. and overall, it's led to a dramatic decline in water usage, as i said in my opening we're using 26% less colorado river water today than we were in 2002, despite our population increasing by 800,000 people. >> what do you anticipate, you anticipate how many years in the future we're gonna need water, and talk a little bit about that, is nevada and las vegas in dire need of water right now, or are you planning for the future with population growth included in that, is that correct? >> that's correct. we do a 50-year research plan, we do it every single year so that we always have a fresh five decade outlook on what we think our population is gonna do, for southern nevada we project that a live increase from 2.4 million today, to 3.8 million in 2076. so, we're always looking out to the future and we then matchup what we have to accomplish in conservation in order to be able to accommodate that population growth with again, the small water supply on the river. we are right now using about 112 gallons per person, per day, and we project that we need to continue to drive down that used to 86 gallons per person per day by 2035, to accommodate that growth that includes back in about august of 2021, and i think the commissioner referred to this, is there was a tier one shortage condition for lake mead, which required us to allocate less water, right? reduce our water consumption from lake mead by how much? >> that was by 20,000 acre feet. but fortunately, because of our conservation efforts, the shortage declaration does not mean you have to use less water than you are using today. it reduces your legal entitlement. so, we reduced our entitlement from 300,000 to 279,000. last year, we only use 242. so, because of two decades worth of preparation conservation planning, we did not have to actually have our customers reduce the amount of water to use last year. >> thank you and i know i'm running out of time, but one final thing. we are landlocked, so it all should we be doing? what else do we need to be thinking about to address the water needs in the western states? particularly along the colorado river right now. >> we need to help all of our friends and partners in the other six states and mexico continue on their conservation journey. as you know with the bipartisan infrastructure law, there is funding for the major regional recycling facility in southern california. that's an example of a cross state lines cooperation, and i think a model for other things that need to be done. but every user in every sector needs to be planning for how they are going to take care of their share of the pain. >> it's ever used to doing just that? >> i am. >> thank you. >> senator king, any additional questions? a couple, mr. o'toole, i believe building more water storage is going to give wyoming and other states the water they need, provide system resiliency. also help maintain stream flows, benefit fish and wildlife. what do you believe are the associated benefits of smaller watershed sized storage projects? >> well, for example, the project i talked to you about in our community is a two-state project. as i described earlier. and so, you know, as you know better than anybody, the endangered species act looms over all of us. having the flexibility of water for migratory birds, for example, and our family is working on the colorado -- having storage to release labor, once you've seen, you know, i hope this doesn't sound too bold, but three years ago, i could've told you what was going to happen to meet and lake powell because you weren't seeing the springs. the springs in my world are drying up. so i'm pointing in solar wells, solar panels, doing every innovative thing i can do. you can have all the grass in the world. if you don't have water, you can't run livestock. so, you know, it has such multiple benefits and part of those is protection and, you know, when i'm with my grandkids -- we see migratory birds, we are excited as we were about the genetics of our livestock because we realize we're in a system and this idea of watersheds with small storage at the tops of the watersheds, the one we are looking at is that 8200 feet. that takes away the issue that mr. -- talked about with losing, you, no water from heat and those issues. so, hi -- watershed storage in the future. >> miss to ten, if i can just ask you in terms of the bureau, would they invest and look for more water storage opportunities in wyoming, in the upper basin states, as we just heard? described by mr. o'toole? >> yes. >> thank you. senator king, you had one more question. >> i also wanted to mention that when you sort water, you also are soaring electricity, potentially. if you have hydro associated, so that's another benefit. mr. and spain are, evaporation, how big of a problem is evaporation in a large lake like lake powell or lake mead? and are there technologies and i don't know the answer to this, i'm genuinely looking for the information. a film of plastic, a non toxic chemical that would diminish or eliminated evaporation, or is evaporation not worth worrying about? my sense is it is a big number. >> it's a huge number just between lake mead and lake powell, you are talking about almost 2 million acre feet of evaporation every year. so, put that in context, they evaporate more just four from those two reservoirs in las vegas uses in seven years. >> so, is there anybody on the panel that might know? are people thinking about the technology of limiting the diminishing of operation or is that something we just have to live with? >> we've seen, maybe one of the other witnesses is aware of something i'm not, at the retail level, all of our reservoirs in las vegas are underground and we have seen in other places, essentially pingpong balls that can float on top of the water that radically reduced evaporation, but those are all pretty small scale. i mean, you are talking about reservoirs that go on for hundreds of miles and across state lines. so i don't know the technology -- >> mr. hall, is there any thought given to how to diminish evaporation on a large scale? >> yes, i think when we talk about evaporation and transportation from plants, it is a really important question in our overall water balance. and, in fact, living in northern new mexico, seeing the fires, i realized very keenly how much management of our forest makes a difference. and there are lots of work going on now to better understand how forest management can reduce the transportation from the forest and the watersheds, and provide other benefits. improved habitat, improve recreational experiences, et cetera. and so, to the point of mr. o'toole's spring flow diminishment, that's something that we are seeing across the west and undoubtedly higher evaporation rates, which are going to happen when you have higher temperatures, are part of that issue. and so, to the point of investing in our natural infrastructure, looking at forest management very carefully and implementing the right management -- frankly to range lens as well, to improve the water yield and provide other benefits it's a really important thing for us to invest in. and yet figured out -- >> miss touton, i hope this may be an area of research. you are doing a lot of practical things and it may be that we should be talking to the department of energy, but your office maybe the right place to think about what our scalable technologies to reduce evaporation? which we've learned is a very significant number. if you could save enough water to supply las vegas by controlling evaporation on those two lakes, it would be a substantial win. so, research it, it seems to me, is a place where we could do some good here. thank you. thank you, mister chairman. >> senator cortez. >> thank you and you teach me up nicely because i want to talk about the e.t. bill that both mr. entsminger, mr. hall, you talked about this is the open if apple transportation data act that introduced. the information is already there. our goal is to make it public and why is that important? as we talk about evaporation, transportation, water usage, why do we need this data? so, mister, hall i will ask you first and then mr. entsminger, if you would follow up. >> thank you, senator. you know, my vision of the future, of the west, includes a resilient agricultural community. some of my most rewarding times as a professional have been when i'm working with farmers and ranchers early in the northeastern colorado more recently in colorado, in california and in arizona. if we want that you're gated agriculture future to be resilient, we are going to have to manage that water more closely. to do that, we need good information on how much water is being used by crops, how much water is infiltrating into the ground, or recharging groundwater, and later, recharged streams and rivers. and information on the eve apple transportation, concept of use, is a key part of better understanding that water balance. it's important to note that this information has been available for many years. it's a technology that's well established and some states, like idaho, had to use it in a systematic way for decades. that information, up to this point, has been primarily in the hands of a handful of entities. those who have the money to invest in and pay someone to provide that information. and so, we felt it was really important to put that same information in to the hands of everyone who makes water management decisions, from the reiter's on the farms, water district managers, groundwater basin managers, and to make it easily accessible, more easily accessible for state agencies, et cetera. and that is what's the open e.t. platform does. it puts that data into the hands of everyone, so that we can begin looking at the same data, diminish the arguments about whether that method is a little bit better, this method is a little bit better, and converge on a piece of information that we can all use and understand how it's affecting the water decisions we make. >> and the idea is that it's available to everyone, including farmers and ranchers? >> that's absolutely right. >> because let me just say and mr. o'toole, thank you for being here, because i work very closely with farmers and ranchers in nevada. i have found that my farmers and ranchers are better scientists environmentalists about the land than some of the scientists that have been at the table because they have to be. they know the land so well, they've lived it, they live off of it, and they respect it. so, the purpose here is to make sure that that data, which already exists, it's also in the hands of our ranchers and farmers. so that they can utilize it to their benefit as well. that's the purpose here. and mr. entsminger, anything else? >> well, you know, -- we are firm believers that you can't manage what you can't measure and the open e.t. bill will give us the tools to measure where exactly the water is being consumed. we will give you a sample from our service territory of how something like that could be deployed on the ground. we, in our e.t. studies, figured out that the type of turf that's historically been installed in the las vegas valley uses 73 gallons of water per square foot each year. but then we found some other species of turf that only used 55 gallons per square foot, per year. so, even in places where we want to have grass, which is not very many places in las vegas, but in our schools, in our parks, we can replace that thirst year grass with less consumptive uses, and that's a kind of think that that e.t. would probably be deployed for on the ground. >> thank you. >> senator wyden. >> thank, you mister chairman. this will be a question for you, doctor hall, let me set the table here. summer begins next week. more than half of my state is already suffering extreme or severe drought. 17 oregon counties have been declared to be in a state of emergency because of water shortages. this is the first time that the shoots county has been in a drought emergency three years in a row. now, drought conditions have been so bad in central oregon that for 18 straight months, the -- reservoir, the primary source of the irrigation water for jefferson county set record lows for months and contents. now, commissioner, we touton noticed how drought has hurt the climate base of where the lack of water is devastating. the farms and travel resources, causing residential wells to run dry. and then on top of this, first responders and experts on the ground expect that the drought conditions are going to fuel wildfire risks beyond even the historically bad conditions of the past couple of years. dr. hall, you talked eloquently about the need for collaboration. good faith collaboration, because that's how you bring people together to tackle these challenges. in oregon, we call it the oregon way. best ideas are ones that have broad buy in from all of those who are actually impacted. if -- the watershed results act to encourage people to come together to expand and improve watershed opportunities. looking back at both agriculture, environmental needs. specifically, my legislation would fund pilot projects to address the impact of drought on watersheds. these pilot projects use the best available science and when identifying your efforts to bring good science and good decision-making wyden and very much applaud your efforts to bring good science and decision-making through your watershed results act. and as i described before, i think this concept of bringing the best minds together, bringing all the ideas from the different stakeholders together, in a dynamic, collaborative way is a way we are going to shape the future of the west that we want to see. and we need good information for that. the quicker that we can get on the same page, understand the challenges that we are facing, what our current situation is, and our trajectory is, the more quickly we can get to solving problems. a handful of things that i think are important in our work, we need better science and data, is in the area of proactive groundwater management. we have this incredible natural infrastructure below our ground that frankly provides drinking water, water supply for most of the rural west. and we can better understand that if we invest in the right data and begin to use that and manage it more proactively. i think another issue is short term forecast. we have so much better information now about how what is actually going to happen, not just today, but over the next several days in a rain and snow systems. and knowing that data sooner allows us to make better decisions on reservoir operations and improve the yield of the projects that we already have in place. >> very good at, one question for you commissioner, glad to see, we had a lot of experience with water issues, bipartisan infrastructure long provided 8.3 billion dollars for investment in western water infrastructure and climate resilience. i'm not sure, i guess my colleagues have touched on it, i'm not sure it's clear it on part of the world what steps the borough of reclamation's taking to ensure the best possible efficiency in the delivery of these funds to get good science out there to manage water management in our part of the world. >> thank you senator, one of the things we did this year that i mentioned, step one is to hire the hires, and higher the people that could help get out the grads, who specialize in acquisitions and hire engineers. we staffed up, by 86 people just to be able to implement bill and get those funds out the door. certainly transparency in our action, and our fy 22 plan, our fy 23 spent land talking about -- >> communicating with everyone across the board but certainly on friday we get the privilege of breaking ground on 100 million dollar investment in california to celebrate a 125th anniversary. we're coming to yellowstone in montana to do the same thing. >> thank you. were you finished? >> yes senator, thank you. so >> the point i was just trying to make mr. chairman, if you set the politics aside in this area of watershed, drought challenges, it's amazing what you can do. i will bore my colleagues with long stories. when i came to the senate, a little bit after i arrived, i rushed to the floor with a brilliant idea for letting government work across agencies with the private sector on watersheds. when i got them at the chairman of the committee, senator barrasso knows, ham -- ron that's a good idea but we ought to correct it, he went out and did a bunch of corrections, put it in a big bill, and when i arrived home people said, this watershed approach, the wide in the main meant is a brilliant idea and i turn to my staff and said, gee, i don't know what the -- amendment is. it's now being used across jurisdictions, with the private center, a slate gordon was willing as a senior republican to help a very new senator who wanted to do the right thing, wanted to work with people. so senator barrasso, and our colleagues here there is hope on these watershed issues. there's hope on drought. it crosses party lines, let's get together and get it done. thank. you >> mister chairman, i'd like to note that i'm not crazy, there are in fact very large floating solar projects, mostly in asia. one is vegas 300 megawatts. this is something i think we ought to think about. miss touton, you have 2000 miles of canals nice place for a solar project. >> i'm happy to follow up with you, senator. >> thank. you >> one last question, the student talking about bipartisan infrastructure law, included appropriations for implementing the colorado river drought contingency plan. $50 million in the appropriation was designated to -- contingency plan. wyoming the upper basin states compiled a detailed list of infrastructure investments related efforts to advance implementation of the plan, presented a list to the borough in january. can you give us an update on the status providing the funding for these infrastructure investments? >> senator, may if i may follow up with you, and follow up their staff we can give you more detail update. >> thank you. >> with that i also have to introduce to the record, from the american farm bureau survey, the historic droughts having devastating consequences for farmers and ranchers. the american -- 58% of respondents in my home state of wyoming said they expect crop eagles to be down 50% or more due to the drought. without objection i will submit this for the record. otherize i want to thank all of you, all the witnesses for joining us today, this morning members may put some questions to you in writing, they have until the close of business tomorrow to submit additional questions for the record. with that, this committee stands adjourned. 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