This runs an hour and 20 minutes. We convene to discuss something of utmost important to the committee on aging. Fraud against seniors. Con artists will pose as federal and state agencies to steal benefits. Theyll falsify, i should say, romantic relationships to gain a seniors trust. And by way of a third example, peddle fake Health Insurance and cures for the virus. They are also using new Payment Methods making losses difficult to trace. The federal trade Commission Reports tbift cards are the main Payment Method used by scammers to request and steal money from older dulls. In 2021, 27 of adults 60 and older who lost money paid a scammer using a gift card or a reloadable card. Peertopeer payment apps like zelle, venmo, cashapp and paypal are also increasingly used by scammers. Today, aurelia will share her experience with a peertopeer payment scam. Her story is all too common. Scammers request payments from seniors by way of these apps have increased exponentially from 2 in 2017 to 10 in 2021. Thats why i recently led a letter to the Consumer Financial protection bureau, urging the center to move forward with guidance to protect older adults from con artists using these apps. Id like to thank members of the committee who joined the letter, senator warner and senator gillibrand. Im also proud that my stop senior scam act was signed into law in march of this year. Thanks to senator moran, senator kelly and Ranking Member scott for working alongside me and others to pass this importance legislation. Thank you, Ranking Member scott, for that work. This law creates a senior scams Advisory Council to ensure that banks and other businesses have both the information and the tools that they need to train employees to identify and respond to scams. Were grateful to the federal trade commission for its work to lead this effort and pleased that this new council will hold its first convening one week from today. Finally, Ranking Member scott and i are releasing our 2022 fraud book. Her it is, ill hold up both versions, in english and spanish, were releasing this as many of you know, weve done this on an annual basis. But this is the 2022 book which arms older adults with the information that they need to protect themselves from scammers. This new and improved fraud book is available today in both english and in spanish. The fraud book highlights the 10 most common scams reported to the committees fraud hotline, which is staffed monday through friday, 9 00 a. M. To 5 00 p. M. Eastern time. Seniors and their loved ones can seek assistance with reporting fraud and getting connected to resources. The frauds hotline toll free number is 18553039470. Ill read that again. 18553039470. Im proud of the committees bipartisan leadership on this issue but we know that we have a lot more work to do. We have a sacred duty to protect seniors and their families against these scammers, these criminals. I look forward to continuing to Work Together on this and ill now turn to Ranking Member scott for his opening statement. Mr. Scott thank you, chairman casey, thank you for working in a bipartisan fashion on issues that impact our seniors across the country. One thing about this country we can all celebrate is that this is a bipartisan effort to protect our seniors every step of the way. We need more bipartisans in congress, without any question. I thank you for your leadership. I think its important to once again reinforce the hotline. This is the 10th anniversary of the aging committees hotline, fraud hotline. The number again as chairman casey has said a couple of times is 8553039470. So important for our seniors to know that there is help out there and one of the easiest ways for our seniors to find that help is to call the hotline when necessary. Seniors often live alone or isolated. Loved ones are not there for them. I would say when you think about the scams, the devastating effect it has on people with fixed incomes, its undeniable, its really hard to replace income when youre on a fixed income. On average, seniors lose about 34,200 for every instance of a scam or fraud. In 2021, according to the f. T. C. , scammers stole 1 billion from our seniors. A billion dollars. In 2021 alone in South Carolina, south carolinians lost 48. 4 million. To scams and frauds. The consequences to the scams and fraudsters are many for our seniors, including losing purchasing power. Trying to maintain good credit. Affording the cost of their homes. Losing sleep. It is an absolute catastrophic experience when one experiences a scam or fraud. Scams also have unseen consequences linking seniors to leav leaving seniors depressed, embarrassed. For example, joe, a navy veteran, received a call from two scammers impersonating Law Enforcement. They told her several people in texas had stolen her Social Security number and opened up checking accounts. In order for her to avoid the ramifications of Law Enforcement she had to send them 22,000 in cash. Remember that this all happened over a single day. The sense of urgency and the pressure plays on these seniors to make fast decisions that have financial consequences that are devastating happen so quickly. Under this immense pressure, she sent two packages of cash. One to baltimore, maryland. The other to little rock, arkansas. These people made her feel as though she had no other choice. The scam not only puts her at tremendous financial loss but also caused her to withdraw from family and friends. Frauds like the ones well discuss today are so common each survivors story is unique on how it affect theirs lives. As the chairman said, we have our 2022 bipartisan fraud book both in spanish and english detailing common scams and how to fight back. Identity theft was the second most reported fraud to the committees fraud hotline. Further, this years fraud book provides critical information and tips on how to protect yourself. According to the f. T. C. , Identity Theft was the number one scam in South Carolina in 2021, with 17,642 cases. One in four Identity Theft victims reported experiencing sleep problems, increased anxiety, depression and anger, even six months after the crime. Scammers arent slowing down. Since 2002, weve seen a 1,600 increase in reported scams. A 1,600 increase in reported scams. Unbelievable. In 2020, f. T. C. Reported 4. 9 million scams. In 2021, 5. 7 million, an 18 increase. Im proud that the stop seniors scams act helps our seniors and next week well see the first hearing. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I yield back. Mr. Casey thank you, Ranking Member scott. Before i move to well have introductions of our witnesses. I want to acknowledge members who are here already. Senator collins, former chair of the committee. Hes been part of the and who has been part of the effort of producing and publicizing our fraud books in the past. Were grateful for her leadership. Senator blumenthal is here from the state of connecticut, as well as senator scott from florida. Let me move to our witnesses. Our first witness is dr. Marty delima, an assistant professor at the university of minnesotas school of social work. Shes an interdisciplinary gerontologist with a specialization in fraud and scams. Shes collaborated with a variety of Financial Institutions, aging organizations and federal agencies like the federal trade commission. Doctor, welcome. Our second witness is nancy famcaener. Shes a senior adult protective specialist for San Diego County in california. Shes dedicated her career for advocating for older adult, safeguarding their finances and ensuring their safety. In 2021, she received the chief investigators Commendation Award from the san diego district Attorneys Bureau of investigations for her efforts in recovering 75,000 for a senior in her community. Our third witness is a pennsylvanian, aurelia costegan, born and raised in allegheny county. Formerly a School Bus Driver and health care worker, shes now retired. She has two daughters. Three grandchildren. And two great grandchildren. She will share her experience today with a scammer who impersonated her bank and the steps she took to respond to the scam. Were grateful youre with us. And now ill turn to Ranking Member scott to introduce our fourth and final witness. Mr. Scott thank you, mr. Chairman. Its my pleasure to introduce a fellow south carolinian. She resides in seneca, South Carolina, for the last 32 years. Shes a retired nurse holding a masters in nursing and is a veteran of the air force. Thank you for your service, maam. Shes also a member of st. Marks United Methodist church, serving her community as a vessel of gods love. Her most important job, however, is being a loving grandmother to five grandkids, ranging in age from 5 to 26 years old. I hear being a grandmother is better than being a mother. I hear that rumor all the time. In april, 2021, scammers conned their way into her computer and Online Banking which resulted in the loss of 20,000. This hit her particularly hard financially and emotionally. Her testimony today is about her personal experience being a survivor of the scams. I want to thank you for being willing to share your story. It does take courage to step forward into the light and help other folks avoid situations like the one you found yourself in. Im so proud youre willing to help other folks through your story. Thank you so much for your willingness to be here today and god bless you. Mr. Casey thank you, Ranking Member scott, well said. So well begin our testimony now. Doctor, you may begin. Good morning. Thank you chairman casey, Ranking Member scott and members of the committee. My name is dr. Marty delema, assistant professor at the university of Minnesota School of social work. I conduct research on Consumer Fraud and strategies to safeguard americans financial security. You invited me today to describe Current Trends in consumer scams affecting older adults. We can use Consumer Complaint data compiled by the federal trade commission to explore these trends. Government imports to scams have been in the top five most reported cat goifers fraud affecting older adults for multiple years in a row. But the Government Agency being impersonated has changed over time the i. R. S. , s. S. A. , f. B. I. , and so on. The challenge is to propredict which agencys clothes the perpetrators will try on next and create Consumer Education campaigns that are robust to these changes. Throughout the pandemic, business impersonation scams grew exponentially. Particularly Retail Company impostors. But its romance scams that lead the pack in terms of personal financial costs. In a study i conducted with the f. T. C. , we found that the median reported losses for consumers in their 70s and 80s were 10,000. Quadruple the losses reported by young adults. We can also use reporting data to look at methods of money transfer. Today, Bank Transfer and crypto currencies are the clear front runners in terms of losses. Together these methods account for 1. 5 billion in stolen funds, more than double the losses of all other Payment Methods combined. While this is a great deal of money, Research Indicates that fewer than 3 of consumers report to Law Enforcement. So the true losses are many magny tuesday greater. Among older adults, as you said, gift cards are still the most common method of money transfer. Gift cards are favored by perpetrators because theyre easily available to consumers. Theyre anonymous. Theyre instantly redeemable and have very few controls. Retail sales clerks are often the only individuals in position to intervene. In my research supported by aarp, my graduate students and i interviewed retail storing mores from around the u. S. We surveyed cashiers and visited local stores to document what is being done. We found that most major retailers have some type of signage warning customers about gift card scams, but the messages were typically small, they were placed out of eye level or completely lost in the sea of gift cards competing for shoppers attention. Less than half of our cashiers we surveyed reported reported there were any limits on purchase amounts and the storing mores said they have not received any formal training from their employers on what to say to intervene. Ultimately they felt they are not authorized to deny gift card purchases if the customer insist, even if theyre certain its a scam. As the saying goes in retail, the customer is king. In light of these findings, i believe that more education for frontline retail staff is warranted. But more importantly we need to demand action from the gift card payments industry, including the payment processors and card issuers. These are the entities that can see when the money is being loaded onto a card by customers in stores and then immediately redeemed by perpetrators in a remote locations. Additional controls might include temporary holds on suspicious attempts to redeem cards. Lower trandz action limits could also make gift cards less attractive to criminals. Consumer education is also critical. As we say, forewarned is forearmed. However we cannot ask individuals to shoulder the burden of legislation is a fantastic example about how companies can limit unwanted robo calls, we need Similar Solutions applied to other avenues of contact. We need to expand the senior safe act to encourage all types of Financial Institutions to act quickly by placing temporary holds on suspicious transactions and reporting elder thought elder fraud to the authorities. Cryptocurrency is playing an outsized role in the fraud landscape. The fraud stirreds playbook has evolved and they are moving into complex and underrated environment under regulated environments. In summary, you are so fortunate to sit in this rare area of policymaking where consumers, both sides of the aisle, and private sector all want the same thing, to stop criminals from exploiting americans. This calls from for greater investment from the private sector and to be proactive rather than reactive when the money is gone. We can show consumers that the federal government is committed to keeping americans safe and restoring trust in the marketplace. Thank you. Thank you very much for your testimony, we will move now to our second this to our second witness. My name is nancy, and i am the senior Adult Protective Service investigator in california. Thank you for allowing me to join you together to join you today to discuss a topic that i am dedicated to. Over the past year, i have been attached to Elder Justice Task force a part of the attorney generals office, and Adult Protective Services, seeking to impact scams against older adults. Seamy county is home to simi county is hoping to 3. 3 million admit individuals. The general population will increase just 38 percent. One in four san diego ands will be over 60 years of age. Particularly, cases with the nexus to scam and financial abuse. From june 20 20 onejuly 2022, over 1200 cases where referred to our office with an estimated lost of 30 4 million. 30 4 million. Aps frequently is the first to respond to these victims, we help them potentially recover losses, bring some sense of security back and protect them from future exploitation. During during our investigation we must build rapport, and trust all while gathering the necessary evidence to bring our cases to the next level. What is the next level . As we know without evidence there is no crime. Law enforcement agencies have been trained together to find key details like how did the scammers contact you, what company did they represent and what transactions were mentioned during our conversation . Some of the top scams we see is peertopeer apps, social media engineering, and bit and cryptocurrency. As these difficult as difficult as these cases are, recovering these funds is sometimes possible. Adult protective services was contact did contacted by the San Diego Sheriffs Department with concern about a publishers clearinghouse scam. Upon investigating we located in elder, with the support of our elder System Task Force we reached the appropriate parties to create an aps referral. This allowed us to have open communication with the identified victim, speak to their Financial Institution, locate support and collaborate with local Law Enforcement. Through this collaborative work we created a records request. One statement was the package that was sent to an california. This victim said that she has spent sent more than two hundred 50 thousand dollars to individuals from the employees of the publisher clearinghouse scam. It is not unusual for our elder members to be asked to launder money for the scammers. We confirmed that our victim in fact sent the victim to another senior and that check was cashed by the receiving bank. Collaborative work works. This is a National Problem crossing state and international borders. In the past year, more than 92,000 victims reported losses of one point 7 million. And thats just reported losses. This represents an increase of 74 two thousand 20. This is a crisis. Without swift action the trend will continue. We have infrastructure in place to report scams, but what we need is continued support and Additional Resources so that agencies involved can solve the greater issue. We need legislation and targeted education that makes it more difficult for the scammers to target our precious population and put faith back in our public system. All the while we need to attend attain bank records quickly for suspicious transactions. I think you for bringing this issue to the forefront and your continued work for vulnerable seniors in the community. Thank you very much. We will turn now to mr. Causing him our next witness. Hello, i was born in pittsburgh pennsylvania, ive been married twice both of my husbands have passed. Our second i used to be a School Bus Driver, and i worked in health care several years. I am now retired on Social Security, and surviving widow benefits. I have two great grandchildren. Last december, i got a phone call from a phone number that was listed on the back of my debit card, the man said he was from the bank and there were suspicious charges on my account from tennessee. He said there was one at a movie theater. He asked if i was in tennessee recently and had i made any charges there. I said i had never been to tennessee. He asked if i had relatives or friends who could have used my card. I said no. He proceeded to say that to avoid canceling my card and issuing a new one, he could issue me a zahl account zelle account to help protect my bank account. I had no idea what zelle was. He said he needed proof that he was speaking with me and he needed some form of identification to prove that he was speaking with me. He asked if i had Online Banking and i said i dont use that. He said that we need to prove this security. I found that feasible, i gave my Social Security number. I think tim and we hung up. Five10 minutes later, my son my phone notified me of charge after charge one after another. I panicked. I called my bank and i told them about the phone call. She said there have been no charges from tennessee on your account. This is how i knew we had been scammed. The manager of the bank said i wont quit until we find the money. I will notify the police and file a complaint. Which i did. The Police Officer was very helpful and understanding. He provided me with resources and a pamphlet, he held my hand and said that he felt for me and other people that have been taken advantage of like this. I couldnt sleep, i had trouble eating, i was devastated. The money i lost because of the scam was 1800 dollars. That is a lot of money, and it takes me a long time to earn money like that being on Social Security, sometimes you need that fark car breakdowns or medical expenses that come up. These things happen and you need a backup. I didnt think i would ever get that money back. A month or so later my bank was able to get my money back, all 1800. I was fortunate to my bank worked so hard with zelle to get my money back. I know that not everyone has had these this experience, scammers get away with this every day. And there are people like myself , do not give information to anyone about yourself on the telephone. I now tell my friends and family as a warning. And i just feel a need to do something so that this doesnt happen to anyone else. Thanks very much for sharing your story. We are grateful for it. We will wrap up with our fourth and final witness. Thank you Ranking Member tim scott and chairman casey. I am 76 years old, i am the mother of two sons, the grandmother of five grandchildren, a retired registered nurse and a retired nursing educator. I also ran a Nursing Department that taught rns for five and a half years. I had a lot of compassion for people who had to do budgets and handle money. My husband of 48 years died nine years ago. I have lived in the same house for 30 two years. Im here today to tell you about the scam that upended my world last year. I always pay my bills on time. I managed to pay our house off early. Ive worked hard to maintain a thrifty lifestyle. I taught her to i taught our sons the same. I pride myself on not spending foolishly and having good financial instincts. But when i realized what happened to me, that someone took such advantage of me, the bottom fell out of my life. I had been having email trouble with my computer but it was the pandemic and i can get it fixed. I couldnt take it to the local staples and no one would come to my house. In january 20 20 one, things started to loosen up a bit and i went and bought a new computer. Things were going back to normal. On april 13, i was using my laptop on a public on a public wifi and suddenly eight pop up a preaired on the screen appeared on the screen a large orange triangle. It said i had computer problems and my computer had been compromised. I called the listed number because i was concerned about the problem i had before which cut me off from my community and church. A reassuring voice promising to be an employee of microsoft, answered my call. He said he would guarantee that he would call me every so often, for two hundred 95. As far as i could tell, it was good customers events customer service. On june 14, this man who was calling asked if he could check on the program and see if it was working. If it wasnt working he wanted to refund by two hundred 90 five dollars and refund me 100 for the inconvenience. He wanted me to go to my computer and turn it on, i did, i had to give him full access. Other messages flooded the screen and went rolling by. And there it was again. An alert claiming that my computer was compromised. I asked them to send it by way of check to my home address. The service had been paid for electronically, they were going to refund it electronically. He moved to another window, and the screen broke out in a chaotic movement with numbers rolling around and around. Then everything stopped and the number on the screen, and the number highlighted was 20,000. This is scam or fade outrage. Saying i intentionally stopped that computer during that 20,000 deposit. I couldnt see any alleged money that he was talking about. We werent in my bank account. We were in my checking account. I had never touched the computer or the mouse while he was running his testing. Then he showed me he opened the window and showed me my checking account, and instead of 6000 dollars and had 26,000 in it. I said, how did this happen, how did you get in . I had a balance that was way above what i shouldve been and it wasnt mine. Inc. So precise about money being at so precise about money, i had no idea what to do, the scammer said that i needed to send it back immediately. Microsoft would sue me, send me to collections, and ruin my credit. I have worked very hard to establish a good credit rating. I was terrified. I felt that the only way i could get my money back was to do exactly as he said. He told me to wire 20,000 to a microsoft subsidiary and vietnam. The instructions were to tell usaa my bank and that i knew this person and that i owed them 20 1000, he said not to veer off of those instructions or i wouldnt be able to pay him back. Immediately, i contacted usaa to report what happened. A representative told me that she believed i had been scanned scammed, but i wouldnt be called back until the next day. It was after office hours. The next day a fraud investigator called back and asked what happened with my bank the next day. I told him and i didnt know anything about what had actually happened. They had seen that i had taken out 20,000 dollars of my home equity line of credit. I had not opened that line of credit for 17 years. It had been an active, dormant. I never knew that the money was from usaa, i didnt know was alone for me and that i was throwing it away. Now i owed usaa 20,000 plus interest. I live on a fixed income. I couldnt make the payments. The interest even was starting to pile up. At first they told me, not to pay any attention to it because it was a fraud investigation. So i didnt start to pay it when it was three dollars, the first few days, i didnt pay it back, and then it got bigger and i could not handle everything. Finally, after the overdue notices that i was getting for the loan, a scary letter came from usaa telling me that i was eligible for bankruptcy. I owned my house, my car, i shouldnt have been eligible for bankruptcy. In the end, not having usaa put a lien on my house and not having the money to pay it i had to sell off my individual retirement account in order to pay usaa because it was driving me mentally insane. This situation snowballed. I couldnt find legal advice. I called the fta, they took a statement and never called me back. I called the police, i called numerous law firms. I called the South Carolina attorneys office. I called many places. I didnt know about the number that you said had been in effect for 10 years. I didnt find anyone, i was afraid to tell anyone, i didnt find anyone to help me until a local tv reporter came on board and listen to my story and broadcast it. I was afraid that other people would know. I hadnt even told my son for months because i was afraid of their reaction because i was so stupid. I was blaming myself. After suffering through the scam, i was not only alone and depressed, i lost my spirit to live. I sat alone and i hated myself some days i didnt get out of bed. I thought this is so ridiculous. I went to the v. A. For an acacian for medication, because im a vet. I opted out of all of my community and Church Activities which the four had been a vital part of my life. I had no leadership role, i didnt attend church for a while. I wasnt the person i had been. I am here today because im a survivor. Not has given me the strength to reclaim my life, and i want others to know that there is hope out there. I want others to know that this unmatched misery doesnt have to happen. Saving others from falling into the pit that i was in, that comes with losing your selfworth and Retirement Savings and a clip. It needs to be done and we need to do everything we can. I have some ideas but we can talk about those leaders. Thank you if youre listening, and i look forward to your questions. Thank you so much. I think we are all indebted to you for your testimony and your willingness to share it with us. It can be easy to relive some of that horror. We are rate full that youre willing to do it to help others. We are going to go for questioning in a different order. First i am going to turn to my colleague senator blumenthal, and then we will go from there. Thank you very much mr. Chairman, and thank you for having the hearing. As the witness observed, fraud affects elders more devastating and effectively than anyone else. Thank you both for telling your stories with such bravery and precision because i think they give a voice and faith. It is truly moving. You have shown, not only a Financial Impact but also the emotional and psychological impact. And connecticut, the department of Disability Services is warning seniors about genetic testing frauds. Where scammers pose as genetic testing representatives, they offer free genetic test and then steal their medical identity in order to falsely bill medicare thereby draining the system of funds. The free genetic tests are a ruse. This is an example of many that consumers have reported to us affecting elders. Its why i was proud to introduce the elder abuse protection act of 2020 one. It bills it builds on the elder abuse prevention and protection act that i sponsored and help passed into law. It provides Statutory Authority for the Elder Justice Initiative to combat elder abuse, neglect and financial fraud. The chairman is to be commend bend is to be commended for his leadership on this matter. I was especially interested, as in a former as a former attorney general and prosecutor, your data and statistics on which frauds effect seniors most commonly. They evolve, as you observed, the use of Government Agency as a means to entice or engage seniors. Different Government Agencies over time. I was particularly instructed interested in your romance scheme. The romance scam. I want to demonstrate my past naivete and ignorance, by saying i had no idea that the magnitude of loss was greatest for those 70, 80 and older. I was wondering if you could expand on what you told us in your testimony about the reasons why that number is at 10,000 whereas for young people my young my childrens age. Between 20, 29 and 3030 nine, the amount is much less. Could you explain . Absolutely, thank you senator. Romance scams are unique in that they tend to go on for many weeks and in some cases many months. When a person finally reports, the magnitude has lost its impact in the report. Perpetrators dont typically ask for 10,000 from their romance scam victims. And then once that trust is tilts, they will ask for greater and greater sums of money. I think that that is why we see those amounts so high. Its also possible that younger adults have more people in their life to interview to intervene, and say that this is suspicious. Older adults with greater isolation, it can go on longer. That they are not losing 10,000 in one fell swoop, there is opportunity for intervention along the way. If we can stop those small amounts from being lost forced. We can prevent those deep pockets from being stolen from. Perpetrators mo is to tell the person to keep these relationships private. They will say things like your children wont understand, this is between us. One of our questions is, why dont they reach out to their friends or family members, and its because they are instructed not to. Thank you very much, thank you all for your testimony. This is very helpful and invaluable to us. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you senator bolo from senator blumenthal. We will next turn to senator collins. Thank you mr. Chairman. I am so glad that you and the Ranking Member are continuing the committees focus on scams that are directed against Older Americans. It is extraordinary how painful not just financially, but emotionally, these scams are. In that regard, i want to thank our witnesses for coming forward and sharing their very powerful stories that will help to educate other Older Americans to tell them that they are not alone and that they should get help. Most of all, help them avoid these scams in the first place. I want to start with you, again, i found your testimony to be so compelling because, as you pointed out, you have an extensive financial background. You are not easily deceived. But you fell prey to an extremely sophisticated, ruthless scam that went on for months. For those of us, and i put myself in that category, who are not that savvy technically, getting a notice on your computer that it has been compromised would cause alarm. For almost all of us. Over the past several years, the aging committee has held many committees examining scan scams that are targeting Older Americans. And what we have frequently heard is that if anyone had intervened at any point in the process, that the scam would not have been successful. The seniors say fact, the senior safe act, was signed into law in 2018, i know that one of our witnesses has urged an expansion of that. I think thats worthwhile. The whole idea of what to train Financial Institution employees to be able to spot and report financial exploitation of Older Americans. So my question for you is, if someone from your bank had seen this very suspicious transaction, when you are opening a line of credit that you have not used in, you said, 17 years, and asked you about it , would that have stop the scam . Yes. It wouldve stopped it on any level. They couldve emailed me, texted me, phoned me. If i go on a trip and i use a credit card and i had not let usaa known that i was traveling to another state, the first charge might go through, but the second time i card would be frozen. Thats 20 dollars. We are talking about 20,000, and they did not find that i expect notification. I didnt expect a notification because i havent used it. I thought it was closed. I had no use for it. But thats one thing they can do. I think its very important that not only seeing the money being moved but seeing the accounts being utilized that were not open before, its important in the education that we give to the bankers also or any Financial Institution. I think we need to understand the difference between a scam and fraud. They didnt pay mine because they said it was a scam. At the definition between scam and fraud and i believe it was a fraud. The reason they would not accept it is because they said this is a scam, this is totally up to. I sent the money. I agree with that, that was stupid and i did that. But i did not move my money, they allow that guy to get into my bank account and move my money from usaa Loan Department into that home equity loan. And i had no knowledge of it. X it seems that your analogy with the use of the credit card, is a good one. If you go out of the country and you havent told your credit card company, they are likely to decline the transaction and text you or contact you in some way to find out if it is really you using that card. It seems to me that this was so out of your normal practice, that your bank should have realized that it was suspicious and contacted you, that is what senior safe is all about. Its to ensure that banks are not violating privacy laws and that they will not be held liable in some way for asking you if this is a reliable transaction that you want. Thank you for sharing that experience. Thank you. Thank you, i was a member of usaa for 40 one years. And i still feel that they were that they owed me some sort of communication. I agree. Thank you senator collins. I want to direct my first question to both our witnesses, as i indicated earlier, severus several of us have expressed gratitude for sharing your stories. I wanted to know part of what your testimony indicated, the impact on each of you individually. You spoke about being devastated, but thankfully after the money was returned you could calm down. But so many times in your testimony, you talked about the impact on you, you said that the bottom of my life had fallen and my life had turned straight in to help, you talked about in depressed and alone and that you couldnt function and so many other expressions of the horror you were living through. Because of that, it cuts through for a lot of americans to hear your testimony and it allows people to understand that this could happen, as senator collins said to any of us, no matter what her background is or what are ages. Your testimony highlighted the importance of not only teaching people to spot red flags but how to respond to big sure that there is an adequate response would you do point to the red flag. This oak us is on both. And i think thats one of the real benefits of it. I guess well go in alphabetical order. Why is it important to focus not only on education to prevent scams, which is obviously very important, but also on resources to respond and help when the scam actually occurs. A little bit of both, actually of what youre saying. People are age, we are trusting people. We are not tech savvy and we are not in the computer world which makes it more difficult. That needs to be brought to attention as well, training elderly people and how to handle that with computer work. The 18 hundred dollars that i lost, thankfully might think was able to recover. To meet 1800 was like 18 1000 being taken from me. My heart goes out to you and what happened to you. I think it is sad that this is happening in this world that people are taking advantage the way they are. Misses taylor . I believe that we need more resources in the ability to not have the victim feel like they are totally at fault. The first thing you do is, you may lash out in anger at the people who are doing it, but then thats cut off, you have nothing else to do about that. They put the blame on you and you carry that blame. Youre afraid to tell people. You are afraid to tell your family. Because if youre to blame, how can you take any more pressure . How can you do more than what you are already doing. The Seneca Police department came over and talk to me and told me they couldnt do anything. They told me that it wouldnt do any good to go to the county sheriffs good county sheriffs department. It wouldnt do any good to go to the state department of law. That i needed to get a hold of some legal people. And i went through a lot of people, it was all i could do. I might be able to make two phone calls a day and then i was totally mindset wiped out. I think we need to be able to allow the plight of Senior Citizens to also reach the families and friends around us. Because we are so afraid of not being able to filled to fill our need. We are afraid of being labeled. We need somebody can push us on our way and know what those resources could be because frankly, im astounded that the people i talked to, not one of them gave me the number for the resource line. Not one. Not the federal trade commission, who i talked to for a long time. Not once. They said that they would call me back and they didnt. Not the South Carolina legal assistance, i talked to them, they never got me back in. Nobody, nobody, got us back into help. It is important that we educate the seniors. One problem with seniors, some of us arent so alert and active and able to understand. We need somebody who knows were buried at mentally and physically that can tell us the kind of thing that we can do where we are. If our mental acuity is not quite as good, we need somebody who doesnt make us feel like we are no good. They need to know the resources. This book is very important. The number is important to get this information out. But i get turned off when nobody calls back and they say will get back with you. Or you get their name and number and you try to call back and theyre not available. I think thats horrible. There needs to be a person that is going to answer and you need to know who they are and they need to hold some kind of accountability for those resources if theyre going to do something. No question, that its not good enough for us at a hearing like this to point out applying to point out a problem. We need to get every level of government to up their game. Every local agency of government, county, state and federal, Everyone Needs to do more to respond so that you dont have that risk experience of being victimized and then further injured by a lack of response. I have a question which ill wait for the second round to alternet to Ranking Member scott. And mr. Chairman. Thank you mr. Chairman. Older americans are targets first scammers. This bill provides 10 Million Dollars of grant money to the regulators to protect seed years. What are some of the red flags and your people protect seniors, what are some of the red flags and your tips that would help seniors identify scammers. When people call you on the phone and they ask you questions, do not answer them. If you have any confusion about it, talk to them in person at your bank. Dont give information on the telephone dont give banking numbers, i have learned that lesson. Its incredible that we find ourselves in a place that you need to really question everyone that calls are seniors. Its a an unnerving position for seniors to find them selves and find themselves in. People need to rewire how they see the world because of the scammers in the fraud. There is a different kind of people for those folks that take advantage of our seniors in vulnerable positions. I was walking back from my banking hearing where i was asking questions and i ran into misses collins, i want to say that you were spectacular. She found your testimony and your response to questions very the complexity of the scam that she heard you articulate you may have answered this in part. But i do think that seniors and if it from hearing your tips. I would love to hear your answers to how do we help seniors in some situations, how do we find those red flags and warnings, what tips would you provide . What thing that is important that i alluded to at the end of my last statement, i think that, let me give an example. Usaa is a federal bank. That i belong to, like a set for 40 one years. Ive never talked to the same person over the more than 50 calls ive made more than one time. I always had to go through what had happened, they either had to read them or they had questions or they couldnt get me to the person. When you when usaa signed a letter, it was sent by a man, and it said i could file for break bankruptcy, i tried to get a hold of that man. They win put me through to him bar his office. We asked i asked him does he exist . And they said we think so. Usaa comes out of texas, i still wasnt able to talk to anyone and know anyone. So when abel was to i was happy to go to a smaller banking bank. They took me right end, they talk to me and introduced me to the people that would be handling my account. When i had the problem that i was so depressed and i didnt know what to happen with this loan i couldnt pay off. They got me into the people that handle your funds. Your retirement funds. And the two of them together talk to me and determined that my Mental Health would be much better if i could get this loan paid off and what would be the best way for me to do that without causing the most loss. Because i lost more money than 20,000 like canceling an ira. To have that kind of care from a Financial Institution was something that i was looking for. Usaa before i touted as a great place. But you need somebody that knows you and listens to you and they need to get their act together. There are millions of usaa members that are not going to be there needs will not be met if they dont get their act together. They did not listen to me at all. And with the little time that i have left, i want to have a followup question with you dr. Which is the Mental Health consequences and your research on that. Could you spend 30 seconds, 40 seconds of giving me a synopsis. Ive had the privilege to read Consumer Complaints through my special government position with the ftc, and from interviewing victims, and to be honest, i have had to take rakes. Step aside goebel for a walk around campus, because its painful. Step aside and go for a walk around campus because its painful. People talk about their marriages ending and people trying to take their own lives. We shouldnt think of financial crimes as being small impact. The impacts are severe, as severe as victimization by physical and sexual assault. Thank you Ranking Member scott. For community education, which i know you know something about, for that to be effective, needs to reach all communities, thats why Ranking Member scott and i needed a priority to ensure that the committees fraud resources are available in both english and spanish. While thats an important step, we know that there is more work that we need to do together. There are so many seniors, particularly those in Diverse Communities who are not, not receiving the information that they need. The federal trade Commission Scams against older adults advisory a group that i mentioned earlier has an Important Role to play in identifying solutions to reach every senior who needs tools information and support. So i ask, do you have Additional Information for the council itself as it takes an consideration of the following, language, accessibility, and other needs. Funky was senator for your question. Thank you senator for your question. Reaching out to Family Friends and allowing this to be a more normalized conversation among each other. And also to provide this in multiple languages and in communities that are less willing to speak up about being a victim of a scam. Thank you. We will turn next to senator rosen, senator rosen i believe is available virtually. Thank you senator casey, i appreciate it. Im not in the room but i think that senator scott is there, i appreciate you both for holding this important hearing, these stories are heartbreaking, devastating. Need to do something to your tech people because it will not happen in just one community or another, its happening in my home state and across the country. Bad actors continue to try to target our nevada seniors. Scams caused nevadans nearly 30 six 1 million in 20 20 alone. Id draft id theft remains atop scan. Whats particularly worrisome is that the scammers are increasingly holding onto personal data for a long. Of time, even a year or two after obtaining it leaving seniors and others in the dark as to when their data may be used. In some cases we are witnessing scammers use data that they had to earlier and the pandemic. Im told by aarp nevada that the use of data scams how do they protect themselves now considering that people are using their day in an by using in the future . My advice and my question is for them my advice is for them to change all of their banking information, change their bank account numbers, monitor their credit, and ensure that there is an alternative person who has oversight over their finances such as a loved one or someone that they trust that has a is secondary ion their banking stuff. Thank you, i want to move to Something Else that happens a lot in nevada, and i know it happens across the country as well particularly after disasters are these home repair scams. Since the beginning of the pandemic, there is been a marked increase in unsolicited individuals. They go doortodoor and my town and all across nevada, they claimed to be contractors and open offer home repairs at lower rates. They are on licenses so they put highpressure on people to put money up front, they have no paper trail and they gravitate to our communities where english language is limited. Dr. Dill lima, are you witnessing those scams across the country as well reticular early in the wake of natural disasters, theres a lot of wildfires up and down nevada and across the west. How is the ftc responding to these especially for those with limited English Proficiency . Thank you for your question. Scammers flocked to areas where theres disruption. Whether its confusion and fear, it is a playground for criminals. While i cant speak from the perspective of the ftc, i can say, when we think about Consumer Education, education is best delivered in the moment when it is relevant. When there is an actual natural disaster, that is when we need to alert those communities to the fact that there will be criminals even the people going doortodoor, trying to take advantage of them at a time when they are hit hardest emotionally. Informing people, never do business with someone who comes to you. Never do business with someone that comes to you, do your due diligence. Thank you for that question. But thank you chairman casey, i yelled back. Thank you senator rosen. We are coming to the end of our hearing, and i want to start by thanking our witnesses, i will have a closing statement and then i will turn to Ranking Member scott. We cant think our witnesses and offer their testimony today, bringing either personal experience, and others bringing advocates as experts. The combination is very helpful not only for the committee but the members of the committee and our staffs but also for the american people. We hope that a hearing like this, and the work that was done to put together fighting fraud, the top scams of 2022. That this work will lead to people being more aware, and it will prevent this scams from occurring and to help them get the help they need when a scan does in impact when a scam does impact their lives. But your story as well as others who have appeared before the committee to mistreat our determination to prevent these terrible scams in the first place and to bring justice, swift, significant justice to the criminals who engage in this. No one should lose a single penny of their hard earned money to a con artist. That is why im proud that Congress Passed the bipartisan stop senior scam act. To help prevent seniors from becoming victims of this crime. I look forward to continuing this bipartisan Work Together, and i now turn to Ranking Member scott for his closing statement. Thank you mr. Chairman for holding such an important hearing on a topic that is heart wrenching thank you to the panelists for taking your time and investing your energy and expertise on such an important topic. Thank you for spending your time here and representing our state so well. Could i have one comment, sir . Thank you chairman casey. I think it is if an independent organization could hear appeals from people who art denied reimbursement who are denied reimbursement. When the bank itself makes a decision that it is not viable, that is a biased finding. Is there anyway we could make them have an independent organization who would overview anyone who wants to appeal one of their decisions. If we could look forward to Something Like that, that would be great. Thank you. We will take that into consideration. We have learned a lot from these hearings but we also got a lot of good ideas. Thank you from sharing. I appreciate that. Most of my good ideas come from people in South Carolina. This is good news to continue to show. 855303five 470. Whats important, is that chairman mentioning the number twice during his opening comments and me mentioning the numbers once or twice, was good enough. But after listening to the testimony and hearing how hard it is to coordinate and have collaboration on behalf of rc unions on behalf of our seniors. 855three 0395 zero seven. Inflation is skyhigh, nest eggs are being hammered. Our seniors cannot afford a billion dollars of lost money because of scams. It is unconscionable. I believe that the testimonies that weve heard today would help seniors keep more of their money, and hopefully, put up a firewall to the scammers and fraudsters who are taking too much of the resources of people who worked their entire lives, have them. Thank you all for being with us today. Thank you, thank you to for referring to the number again. Ill read it again. So that weve said it put 1855three 039470. I want to thank the Ranking Member for emphasizing that. I wanted to acknowledge senator warnock, who was with us as part of this hearing. And i wanted to note, as well, i want to thank this daft and both of our staff for working on this. Ive said it both in english and spanish, but to give people seem to hearing some scent of what some sense of whats inside. For example, the number one scam in the top 10 is government imposter scams. This summary, that appears on page 15. But after that you have a section called red flags, things to look for. And maybe the most important was the steps to prevent and respond. I think thats important for people to take a look at. The first step to prevent and respond is, someone calls during a government imposter scam, hang up the phone, and dont reply to the email. From there we give other advice but it is very practical and its important that we have data on how many of these scams occur, but its even more important that we get information about how that individual should react in the moment. We are grateful that our staff work so hard on that. I want to thank again all of our witnesses for your testimony. Whether it comes from your personal experience of having been a victim, or your own work and scholarship and advocacy, both are so valuable. I want the senators to know on the committee if any senator has additional questions for the witnesses, or statements to be added to the record, the hearing record will be kept open for seven days until next first day september 29. Thank you all for participating this concludes todays hearing. I appreciate it. Work in this book be obtained . The website. On the website. For others