Transcripts For CSPAN3 Hearing Considers Modernization Of Endangered Species Act 20170510

I call this hearing of the Senate Environment Public Works Committee to order and like to defer to the Ranking Member. I thank the chairman. I apologize to our witnesses, some of whom come quite a distance. The democratic leader in the senate has called for an emergency caucus meeting to discuss the issues leading up to the dismissal of james comey as fbi director and to discuss how we might move quickly to insure that a special prosecutor is assigned and put to work right away. And if i have the opportunity to return at the end of our caucus meeting, ill come back and perhaps some of my colleagues will as well. I appreciate the chairmans understanding of this and giving me the chance to give an Opening Statement first. Thank you this is important stuff. I am interested to learn more from our state witnesses about your experiences with the endangered species act. The roles that states play, the partnerships theyve cultivated and the lessons youve learned, challenges you face, and what you think we need to know. Im not sure we could have gathered a more knowledgeable or relevant panel. All together, our witnesses represent nearly a century of Natural Resource environmental as well as fish and wildlife experience. Which leads me to believe you must have started very early in your lives. This is our second endangered species act hearing this year. Id like to emphasize a couple points that struck me from our first hearing on this very important issue. The first is that the world is experiencing an increase of species in peril. The International Union for the conservation of nature has declared almost one third of all known species of plants and animals, some 22,000 plus species are currently at risk of extinction. The second is that there are so many species ending up on the endangered list. If as well hear from our witnesses today, states are concerned about and equipped to handle a Species Conservation in their states, why are so many species in trouble . Are there funding challenges . Are there legal challenges . Endangers species act should be the last backstop against extinction. And the evidence clearly shows when states, when federal agencies collaborate effectively, we can better prevent species from being listed in the first place. We established at our last hearing that there is generally ample notice that species are at risk. Often biologists and citizens know years, sometimes even decades in advance that a plant or animal was in trouble. A governor disclosed at our earlier hearing that until recently despite this notice, states havent really focused on all those nongame species that are struggling. And therefore, their status becomes critical and a source of contention. The question is then, are states focusing on them now . How much and with what resources . And how effectively . Hopefully, our state experts here today can help us appreciate the lay of the land and help us understand what the federal government needs to do to be a better partner to get this critical job done. I hate i have to say, the numbers are not encouraging. I understand that states spend about a quarter of what the u. S. Fish and Wildlife Service invests to protect endangered species listed. If we include all the federal agency spending, the collective statement investment is i think about 4 . Granted its likely means we need to invest more in our states, but it also means the states have soul searching to do. And if you need the federal agencies to back you up because you cannot carry the burden, then we need to know that. Congress always intended the this to be a collaborative effort. A host of land owners, along with business interests and conservationi conservationists. Our goal should be to make sure were firing on all cylinders. And i say these things with the greatest of respect as a recovering governor for the work that you do and the unique capacity you have to understand the challenges in your states and how best to resolve them in the partnerships you need to reach these goals. But in this particular instance, you are front and center of a fight not only for state interests but National Concern for species that are part of a natural heritage. These plants and animals travel, they disperse with little concern for our political boundaries. If you tell us its time to modernize this crucial act. Please let us know how the changes you propose will make us better equip today conserve, and to restore the plants and critters in places they call home. This isnt just our legal obligation, i think its our collective moral duty as well. Mr. Chairman, i deeply appreciate the chance to go first and i hope i have a chance to come back and be with all of you later this morning. Thank you so much. The democrats have evoked the two hour rule. This hearing will go to 11 30 this morning which is two hour after the senate gavelled so well be adjourning at 11 30. We consider feedback from state officials on the need to modernize the endangers species act, which was enacted in 1973 to conserve species identified as threatened and to conserve the eco systems upon which they depend. State government, particularly their state fish and wild life agencies play a central role in fulfilling the acts mission. Some have tried to argue that the federal government, not the states is the only entity capable of saving endangered species. And that the states should take a back seat on Wildlife Conservation for species at risk of extinction. Endangered species dont care whether the federal or State Government protects them. Combine our nations wild life state fish and Wild Life Agencyvise enhanced their staff, their expertise, their habitat management techniques, the science capability, the relationships with private land owners and local communities and political support. And again, these are the state fish and wild life agencies. According to a 2014 2015 survey of state fish and wild life agencies conducted by the association of state fish and wild life agencies, our states, wild life machine is comprise of 50,000 highly trained and motivated employees, including 11,000 degreed wild life biologists, 10,100 Law Enforcement officers, 6,000 employees with advanced degrees, 2,211 employees who inform the public. An additional 90,000 volunteers nationwide who donate their time. State governments and their wild life agencies have voiced concerns that the endangered species act isnt living up to his potential. So if counties, wild life managers, home builders, construction companies, farmers, ranchers and other stakeholders. The endangered species act, impacts us all. 99. 4 of all the counties in the United States are home to at least one species listed as endangered according to a recent analysis of service data by the National Association of counties. We must all be concern when the act isnt living up to its potential. Were fortunate that national and Regional Stakeholder groups have been working for several years in bipartisan ways to identify challenges with the environmental species act and opportunities to make the statute work better. In march of 2016 the association of fish and wild life to better promote fish and Wild Life Conservation and facilitate the participation of land owners and other stakeholders. In june of 2016, the democrat and republican western Governors Association adopted the western Governors Associations endangered specie act policy under the leadership of a wyoming governor. The association of state fish and wild life agencies the western Governors Association and other bipartisan groups consistently hit on three themes when they discussed ways to modernize the endangered species act. Conservation. How can the act better incentivize conservation activities to number one, avoid listing of species as endangered or threatens and number two. Recover species when theyre listed as endangered or threaten. Consultation. How can the act facilitate the governments consultation with state and local governments so Decision Making is made on the best availability information and state and local capacity is adequately leveraged. Capacity, how can the act provide sufficient resources to fulfill the act and allocate them to species most in need. According to feed back from across the nation and the political spreectrum. Modernization of the act could lead to Better Outcomes for species, government entities, private parties and other stakeholders. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses to modernize and strengthen the endangered species act to make it work better for wild life and for people. So wed like to hear from our witnesses starting with nick wily, the executive director of the florida fish and Wild Life Conservation commission and the president of the association of fish and wild life agencies. Good morning, chairman and Ranking Member carper and members of the committee. I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you today. My remarks will represent the views of the florida fish and Wild Life Conservation commission and the association of fish and wild life agencies. My views regarding the endangers species act are shaped by 31 years of experience as a professional wild life biologist and a state fish and Wild Life Agency administrator. During this time ive been fortunate to work in florida, where we have an amazing diversity of fish and wild life resourcess featuring a number o iconic species, including bald eagles, man aties, florida panthers, sea turtles, american crocodiles. My direct experience and work with states across the nation reflect that esa has served our National Well as a strong tool for protecting and recovering species that are on the brink of extinction. State fish and wild life agencies really value and appreciate how esa has driven many conservation success stories. We also see firsthand, however, that esa has not adapted well to the tremendous changes across our nations conservation landscape. Federal agencies do not have sufficient capacity or funding to keep pace with esa work loads resulting in delays and litigation. The esa is often viewed by private land owners and businesses with trepidation. Its troubling that the primary purpose for the esa has shifted over time from an effective focus on rescuing species from the brink of extinction to a broad brush that perpetuates the highest level of federal regulatory protection, even when the threat of extinction has been eliminated and ongoing protection is assured under state management. State fish and wildfire life Agency Directors generally believe that esa is not performing as it should and is not sufficiently leveraging state Agency Expertise and cooperation. We believe there are many areas where esa should be improved, refocused and modernized to effectively deal with the scopes scale and complexity of todays conservation challenges. When we talk about modernizing esa, we are talking about improving how esa is administered implemented and ad minstrerd. Were talking about optimizing partnerships with state agencies and better utilizing our growing expertise and conservation capacity. And were also talking about keeping esa decisions in the hands of conservation professionals at state and federal agencies rather than in the judicial system. With these concerns in mind afwla developed a list of general principles for improving esa. These principles were developed by state esa practitioners and calibrated with western Governors Association and the national Governors Association reflecting the National Scope and significance of esa. Were hopeful the ideas and recommendations presented in the general principles will inspire and provide a constructive path to an improved esa. Coupled with esa we believe addressing the life needs and habitat requirements of declining species to prevent esa listing is more prudent and more economically and biologically sound approach to managing species that are otherwise trending toward listing. Through state wildlife action plans, the state agencies have identified species of greatest conservation need and key actions needed to conserve them. We want to continue working with congress to more fully fund this preventive approach through legislation like the recovering america wildlife act introduced last congress. State fish and Wildlife Agencies want to be even more valueadded in esa implementation to the degree we each have capacity and funding authority. Were suggesting an optin approach that opens doors for the fullest cooperation with state agencies that have or will develop capacity and concurrent authority. We are not suggesting that all 50 states are ready to fully engage, but many are if we can get a seat at the table. Yet the way esa is constructed and interm ted state agencies can be involved in key decisions only at the discretion of federal agencies. Although section 6 requires maximum extent practical cooperation, this provision has never been fully realized. As the primary trustee for fish and wildlife resources, state agencies should have the option to serve of as a full jurisdictional partner in all esa processes and decisions as originally intended by congress. We believe conservation of our fish and wildlife resources particularly protecting and recovering endangered species is at the core of our american values. The current version of esa arc published much and we should be proud of this, but we cant afford to let esa rest on its laurels and continue to the time. The time is right for esa to be upgraded to a more cooperative model, and were hopeful for strong bipartisan support to move this forward. Thank you, and i welcome your questions. Well, thank you so much for your thoughtful testimony. I would like to now turn to mr. Larry voyle sze, the director of the arizona fish and Game Department and the former president of fish and Wildlife Agencies. Thank you for joining us, mr. Voyles. Thank you, chairman. [ inaudible ] thank you, chairman barrasso and Ranking Member. Im delighted to be speaking to you here today. My career has put me in a position to be able to shed light on some important aspects of the endangered species act. Ive gained the insights through a 42year career with the department, including nine years as director, and i served under three governors from both sides of the aisle, both republican and democrat. Ive also served as past president of the association of fish and Wildlife Agencies. Im a charter member on the state and federal joint task force on esa administration. I served as special detail to the u. S. Fish and Wildlife Service and im a member of the Strategy Team that convened legal scholars to recommend enhancements to the esa that would significantly improve conservation of impaired species. And hopefully so dramatically that bipartisan support in congress could be assured. School ears first surveyed state directors assessing their willingness to be more deeply involved in esa administration, and in that survey more than 90 of directors surveyed overwhelmingly and affirm their willingness. Esa is an important tool to conserve americas wildlife. It is a an act that shows, however, its age. Time to modernize the act, take advantage of the unparalleled conservation capacity of most of states fish and Wildlife Agencies. My experience with esa tells us its critically important that we strengthen the provisions in section 6 of the esa. Section 6 states in carrying out the program authorized by this act, the secretary shall cooperate to the maximum extent practical with the state. Those are clear and straightforward words, but as youll note in my written testimony not so simple in practice. Nearly 44 years after enactment, federal agencies still have not promulgated rules to guide in at ministering simple phrases. Now, what is it about that that i think makes it so important . It is important for us to foster cooperation intended by section 6 because state fish and Wildlife Agencies bring a wealth of resources and authorities that enable us to conserve endangered species far more effectively when that cooperation can be optimized. For a moment please consider what makes this true. Consider that the importance of the states to effectively care for our nations threatened and endangered species can be evaluated two ways. Quantitatively and qualitatively, and this may sound a little repetitive because the chairman already visited these numbers, but quantitatively the resources provided by states collectively are impressive and factually eclipsed that of their federal partners demonstrated by the following figures. State Wildlife Agencies own, manage or administer conservation on more than 464 million acres of land and 167 million acres of lakes, reservoirs and wetlands. State Wildlife Agencies employ nearly 50,000 people and leverage the efforts is 190,000 volunteers. States employ 11,wildlife biologists, thats nearly the entire workforce of the u. S. Fish and wild lire service and 10,000 Wildlife Enforcement officers nearly 6,000 of our employees hold advanced degrees, and states collective bungts contribute 5. 6 billion towards Wildlife Conservation annually. Cut tatively states have achieved unrivaled successes and are crucial to access redigsmaking in all phases of endangered Species Conservation this. Can clearly be seen in one example from my state. The Arizona Game Fish Department collect data and publish period on tore toyses for nearly 30 years. Contrary to claims and listing petitions our quality data and exer per tease this reduced regulatory impacts to much of arizonas landscape. Another prime example of multitate is the Lesser Prairie Chicken Conservation Program and five western states and ministered by the arizona fishandWildlife Agencies. Voluntary cooperation of landowners, management and land industry have conserved 16 sites totally 133,000 acres. The species populations are stabilizing and the endowed funding exceeds 50 million. My professional experience spanning virtually the life of the esa shapes my final thought. The esa is an important tool for conserving americas imperiled wildlife thats become stagnant and needs modernizing. Neither federal nor state agencies alone can meet the conservation challenges we face. States must have the opportunity to elect participation, enlisting decisions, Recovery Planning and implementation, developing private landowner conservation incentive programs and decisions to downlist or delist species. Only our working together under an esa ma mandates effective cooperate with states delivers the capacity needed to preserve impaired species into the future thank you. Thank you so much for being with us today and for your testimony. Would i like next to turn to joint coicht, the director of the Rhode Island Department of wildlifeandmanagement. Thanks for being with us today. Good morning, chairman bragsio and members of the commit en. Its good to be here. My james is jane koyt and im the director of the Rhode Island Department of wildlifeandmanagement and oversee the Wildlife Protection and Natural Resource lives. Ive worked under two governors and been the director for six years and im proud to now work for governor ramundo. Testifying before this committee today is an honor and a little bit surreal. I worked as a professional staff member and counsel for committee many, many years ago, leaving 20 years ago right whgt this committee was about to report out that the endangered Species Recovery act and even so that was two decades ago, i wanted to spend a few moments committee i for working through intractable issues to suspend and i think a lot of work will be needed in order to get a bipartisan endangered species act. Its possible because people are very thoughtful and take a look at how this act touches down so that we dont undermine some of the work thats needed in places like rhode island in the northeast while we listen to some of the experiences from the west. The next point im going to make is just to endorse the need for strong state agency engagement. We are the boots on the ground. Our biologists, our foresters and with you are admittedly involved with the community so we know both the conservation and the science but also the industries and the companies that the landowners that we need to work, so full participation and engagement of the state agency is critical. Ill just just enlisting decisions and recovering plans and monitoring and outreach and collaboration. And i can say that in the northeast with region 5, we have a very close working relationship, and that gets me shortly to my point about the new england cotton tail, but wendy weber, the head of region 5 has been terrific at reaching out to the states to collaborate. Adequate resources. I wont repeat what the my colleagues have said, but the add cut resources for conserving species are critical to any reforms, and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. We all want to keep species from getting on the list. Thats the success, and once on getting them o. So i want to, again, mention the state wildlife action plans. Weve put a tremendous. A work into those working with stakeholders, and their real serious sciencebased documents would help us list endangered species and help us spend resources wisely. The states have the plan, at least, unfortunately, in my state of rhode island, we dont have sufficient resources to carry them out. Let me just summarize one last point. The new england cotton tail is a great example of how an imminent listing motivated people to get together, really coordinated or kicked off by the u. S. Fish and Wildlife Services and states with the equal partners, Wildlife Management institution administered a pros res, and by doing that we were able to take a species that was about to be list that had had lost 86 of its habitat and prevent it from listed so that secretary babitt was able to announce secretary jewel, sorry, was able to announce that listing was not warranted and weve got a whole cadre of private landowners, carters in and excited folks who are working together on conserving the new england cotton tail and have captive breeding programs and seeing the species and the 65 other species that depend on the young forest habitat flourish because of the way we worked collaboratively across many states. Then ill just end by saying, which youve heard so many times in this committee, that one size does not fit all. Were very resourceconstrained. Fortunately the sports men and women have seen to it that we have sports funding and we need nongame funding. 80 to 85 of the funds we have are restricted to game species and its very difficult to put the resources towards our engagement with the endangered species act or the whole host of nongame species under our authority and stewardship as a state agency. So thank you. I look forward to any questions, and thank you very much for having me. Well, thank you. We appreciate you being here from our colleagues on committee. Since the democrats have brought into play the twohour rule we veal to adjourn at 11 30 which gives us each time for questioning but to make sure you have the time ill turn to senator inhofe first and reserve my time. Thank you, chairman. Let me remind you, director koyt, the experiences that you shared with us at john chaffee, that was my first year and he also came to oklahoma, if you remember, and studied our system so youre right he had eyes on all the time. Let me director voyles, youre the guy that brought up the lesser prairie chicken. We had the conservation, wide conservation plan, five states, oklahoma, my state was one of those states, and we worked hard. We worked for a long period of time. We had meetings in all five of the states and we came up with some conclusions as it relates to the lesser prairie chicken, and even though we went to all that work. We went through so much work that a texas court came in and said that that the fish and wildlife was violated because they didnt consider properly the conservation plan that was put forward. So right now were in the process of looking at this and seeing what we did do, but there doesnt seem to be any incentives for people to really work with these conservation efforts. Would i like to have you give us your opinion as to the seriousness of that particular conservation effort and why they are not incentivized in our system to participate. The senator inhofe, senator barrasso, the lesser prairie chicken i think is the classic example of what states can do when they integrate together and work with partners, both in the private sector as well as the public sector. Its its plowing ground to the future, think, of the way conservation will be done. 50 million in investment and 100,000 acres of lands enrolled, and yet there was a finding by the u. S. Fish Wildlife Service that the species needed to be lists. The courts disagreed with that. I would argue that the lack of a formal process for the states to be at the table in the decision process for listing leaves a hole. Really, i think theres a check and balance value in having the state Wildlife Agency being able to be a part of that discussion. I think that director wiley suggested the same thing. I think director wiley. Did you want to comment in terms of some of the ideas you have . I was not real clear in your written statement whether or not you were had some type of a state intervention, a trigger point, where states would be involved and take over the vungs of the federal government. Is that accurate . Well, in a couple different ways, yes, sir, and i agree fully that states dont have enough of a formal role in the decisionmaking process. We do get involved early on and try to collaborate and the way things are constructed we kind of have to sit outside and wait for decisions. We believe one idea is right now we have classification where you have threatened species and endangered species. We believe the original intent was for once a species as no longer warranted for listing as endangered, its changed to a threatened status, the states should then take the lead in managing that species exactly. Which reminds me. Also in oklahoma, of course, we had the american boring beetle and fits in the category that should be fish wildlife seems to move the goal posts. They come out and say this is what we want to accomplish and then once you accomplish that, they move the goal post, and thats one of the problems that we have. In the case of the american beetle, itslition, only known to be in eastern oklahoma and block island, rhode island, so youre familiar with that also. Now, since the listing, science has used all these things, the problems have been pretty much resolved. I think that shows since the inception of endangered species, theres been 1,652 listings and only 40 delisted in terms due to recovery, so to me it shows that that system is broken, and i think this hearing is really good. Theres already some really good recommendations have been made by this committee, so we want to get through all of our questioners, but i really think, mr. Chairman, this this is going to be one of the real accomplishments of this coming year, something weve worked on for a long time since i was there with john chaffee 20 years ago. Thank you. Thank you, senator, inhofe, for your ongoing leadership over the decades. Senator wicker. Oh, okay. Let me ask you on the landowners. I had no idea it was my turn. Private landowners working with the u. S. Fish Wildlife Service and partnership. Of course, this is this should be our goal is to get all sides in involved in working on ways in which we can accommodate private landowners and conserve species at the same time. Mr. Wiley, do you think the endangered species act needs clarity on the ability of the u. S. Fish Wildlife Service to work in partnership with private landowners . In order to use innovative measures such as memorandums of agreement that do not require federal register notice but are negotiated directly with landowners . Yes, sir, mr. Chairman. Yes, sir. We feel like theres a lot of work that could be done to clarify in the law the importance of private landowners and the importance of working with land owners to achieve conservation. The fish Wildlife Service does make an effort, and that should be applauded but right now the hands are tied in many cases. Landowners view in many cases the listing as a serious threat to how they use their land. We believe theres a lot better way forward if it the states can be more engaged and more involved and working on the ground because we have those relationships and we feel like we can really be helpful. Well, as i understand it, there are landowners in mississippi with more than 4 million acres who are seeking to do this. In what ways are their hands tied . Well, first, its a serious workload issue for just the time it takes when you have a willing coalition of landowners like these forestry landowners that want to sit down and say what can we do to to take conservation measures and put in place now. Theres a time lag. It takes many years to develop. Even when the parties are agreeable. It just takes years to pull those things together just from a workload case. Its its a its a timeconsuming process. And beyond that, the right now the administrative rules are kind of all over the board and are not very clear as far as what landowners can and cant do and how the right type of conservation programs that can be put in place. Is there some recommendation you would have to this committee about streamlining the rules or making the process more efficient . Oh, yes, sir. We have actually a suite of recommendations we believe that would really be helpful, particularly moving from rules to actual overarching legislation in law. Okay. When you mention a backlog in that record, what about the backlog of species petitions awaiting review but the u. S. Fish wildlife. Do you think 12 months is enough time to craft a u. S. Sfw voluntary conservation plan for interested stake holders . With current capacity its not for the volume that were having to deal, the fish and wildlife fisheries. Its not enough time, but good news is what do you recommend . We recommend applying the work plan approach, prioritization approach but also actualing at the species being threatened and the threats and putting them in the proper order and priority, and some may take more time. Some might be it might be feasible to do more quickly. Right now its a shotgun. Everything is coming all at once and its hard to handle it, and the services have taken some steps in that regard but we have other suggestions to move that along. How do you set it on an ad hoc basis . I dont think it would be on an ad hoc basis. I think could you frame it up for the law to have some flexibility so that when the experts look at a species it is a comes in, they can then make decisions about where it would fit into that framework of time lines. Thank you very much, and thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank, senator wicker. Senator rounds. Thank you, mr. Chairman. First of all, let me just say that after having had the opportunity to work as governor in south dakota for eight years, i have i have a huge amount of respect for the individuals that work at the local level with regard to game and fish, recreational opportunities. Management of those of those game species and nongame species, and i look at the fish and parks and the amount of work that they have done and the amount of respect that they garner in the work that they do, and cooperative way in which they try to put together local agreements with landowners, trying in an affirmative way to create good relationships so that the recreational opportunities of our of our citizens are enhanced, and the ability and the ability to act as private lands and so forth. Along with that they have that obligation and responsibility to work with the federal government and the u. S. Fish and Wildlife Services to to fulfill our responsibilities with regard to the endangered species act. And i think they do a marvelous job of balancing those challenges. Im just curious because director voyles, you said in your testimony you explained that the authority of section 6 cooperative agreements allows for states to have a greater or greater opportunity to participate in the implementation of the esa, but you also mentioned that state agencies have not been able to exercise this authority due to misunderstandings and misinterpretation by the federal executive Branch Agencies and courts. Could you elaborate on how executive agencies and courts have misinterpreted section 6 authority and how this has impacted the ability of states to participate effectively in esa implementation . Thank you, senator rounds. [ no audio ] in your testimony you spoke about the importance of state agency importance and the implementation of esa and over the years despite their ontheground experience and expertise states have not always had as much say in the processes as they would have liked, and from your time at the Game Fish Department can you provide an example of a time when both a species and stakeholders would have been better served had the federal government taken more state data or recommendations into account. Thank you, senator and mr. Chairman. I can think of several instances. One example would be a very politically divisive recovery effort, the mexican the mexican wolf. Theres been a 25year effort to revise the Recovery Plan for mexican wolf, the original Recovery Plan was developed in the 80s, and its outdated. Its been extremely politically divisive, and in the process at one point in time we had to fight for a seat at the table to be a part of the Recovery Plan process and when we were fighting for that seat the Recovery Team that was convened, the science and planning subgroup, there was nobody that understood the Population Dynamics of the prey species that the wolf would depend on. Thats what we do for a living. We had the expertise and we ultimately got a seat, but we had to fight our way in. It was it was not easy. That should be a hardwired event. We shouldnt have to try and fight our way in and bring politically pressure to bear to be able to get a seat at that table, and it was important that we were there because some of the Population Dynamics, th wou have failed. There wasnt the pri base to support the kind of wolf numbers that they were talking so thats an example of having to kind of scratch and claw to get in as opposed to being a full partnered a envisioned in section 6. So you think just by having the state involved from the very beginning in those discussions that a lot a lot of conflict would have been avoid and perhaps a better plan would have been put in place . Absolutely, and we dont still have a revised plan. We do have a full seat at the table now. Its been reconstituted, and i think weve got more powerful science coming to bear now. Weve improved their modeling a great deal by bringing states into t state scientists into the picture and we hopefully have a better trajectory on a final hope for revision. I think that could have reduced this 25year time line by an enormous magnitude. Thank you. I appreciate that and i do think states should be involved, especially when theft expertise in dealing with a certain species. Miss koyt, in your testimony you emphasized the importance of state fishandwildlife participation in esa implementation. You noted that conservation efforts would be aided by increasing the utilization of data from state agencies. Are federal partners ignoring or are they choosing not to use state data in favor of their own data . We have recently had a very good experience. I think its evolved and improved over time so the u. S. Fish Wildlife Service is using state data and were sharing data. I think they are extremely open to that in rhode island, and weve had the experience, but its gotten better over time according to my staff. In some areas we have the capacity and expertise, and in other areas we dont. It might be a university or another entity so i think were wanting all the absolute best science to come into the process so the decisions can be made on science. So is there a lack of communication in those examples or we actually im bringing the rhode island experience. We have a very good working collaborative relationship with the u. S. Wildlife service. A lot of our conflicts are in the marine environment. Ill yield back my 17 seconds. Thank you very much, senator. In the little time thats left. Director wiley and voyles, at our hearing in february, gordon myers, executive director of the North Carolina Wildlife Resources Commission who also serves as president of the afwas southeastern so, he testified State Governments have enhanced their capacity to make greater contributions to the implementation of the endangered species act. Do you agree with director myers that states are in a much better position than ever before to contribute to the conservation recovery of the species under the endangered species snakt. Mr. Chairman, we absolutely do. There are states still working to get there. Were all working to do better, but we are if you look at the transition and transformation of state fish and Wildlife Agencies over the last 20 or 30 years its amazing what we can do and what we are doing, and i i really think now is the time to to give some regard to that. Mr. Voyles . Mr. Chairman, if you noted on my bio, i started number professional Wildlife Conservation the year after the esa was was implemented, and at that time we had one biologist on staff that was what we called a nongame biologist, okay. I have over 100 people now on staff that deal with conservation of nonhunted and nonfish species. Clearly arizona has grown exponentially in our ability to deal with esalisted species as well as species at risk. The other thing that i want to point out is state Wildlife Agencies are an incubator of innovation, and some of the Innovative Solutions that are taking place, and i think the lesser prairie chicken example really highlights that. Theres a 50 million endowment thats been built by partnerships with industry. Thats some of those states, if you were to ask what your appropriation for endangered species, they might not look so spectacular, but they have generated an endowment through partnerships that enables them to be very eticketive and in our state we have a contracts operation where were able to deal with species outside of our appropriation methodology through contracts that range 7 million to 10 million a year of Revenue Streams for unique operations so that kind of innovation is coming out of the states and were really i think at the cutting edge of Public Private partnership in america. Well, our time has expired. I had a question for you, bull im not going to go beyonltd rules of the senate. It has to do with how much money is available and impact of the equal access to justice act, the book inside the equal access to justice where its talked about how many taxpayer dollars is spent on environmental litigation and it talks about how little money you get and how to make sure that we get the money to you and ill submit that in write willing. This hearing is now adjourned. Thank you for being with us. Equal access to justice act, the thank you for being with u t Works Committee hearing on endangered species legislation will be available to see again on our website, cspan. Org. Type endangered species act in the search bar. Well, the hearing was expected to go until about 1230, but tended earlier than expected. Its one of the rip unless reaction to President Trumps unexpected dismissal yesterday of fbi director james comb deand democrats have responded tamed by invoking whats known as the twohour rule which means no scheduled Senate Hearings can take place today two hours after the senate gavels in. Well, the senate came in this morning at 9 30 so no hearings can start after 11 30 eastern today without unanimous consent from the full senate. Again, Senate Minority whip dick durbin called for the twohour rule and Majority Leader Mitch Mcconnell objected to that consent degree which basically shuts down todays scheduled hearings w. President trump firing fbi director comey this morning the president sent out these tweets this morning saying the democrats have said some of the worst things about james comey, including the fact that he should be fired but now they play so sad. James comey will be replaced by someone who will do a far better job bringing back the spirit and prestige of the fbi. This also from President Trump tweeting comey lost the confidence of almost everyone in washington, republican and democrat alike. When things calm down, they will be thanking me. Cnn reporting that Hillary Clinton replied no comment when asked about the firing of james comey. We expect to hear lots more about these developments later today at the white house briefing. Deputy spokesman Sarah Huckabee sandlers speak with reporters today and that starts at 1 30 eastern. Well have it live for you when it gets under way on our companion network cspan. We were planning on bring you live coverage of an average hearing looking at Veterans Health care options. The v. A. Secretary was due to testify but due to the senates invoking of that twohour rule we wont be able to bring that to you. If it does get rescheduled we hope it add that to our programming schedule. Also coming up the Senate Democratic policy and communications will host a hearing on republican efforts to repeal and replace obamacare. They will hear from Health Care Officials and patients live on our companion network cspan and follow us livon line at cspan. Org or listen on our free cspan radio app. Cspan, where history unfolds daily. In 1979, cspan was created as a Public Service by americas Cable Television companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. Well, early this week the full Fourth Circuit court of appeals in Richmond Virginia reviewed the legality of President Trumps revised travel ban on foreign nationals entering the u. S. From six mostly muslim countries. This oral argument is just over two hours. All rise. The Honorable Court of the ninth circuit court. Any person having any manner or form of business before the honorable United States court of