Transcripts For CSPAN3 Government 20240705

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] may i have your attention [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] we will now begin to resume. The subcommittee will not resume. Think you very much, again, that was an Inspiring Panel of leaders, including survivors. So the hearing has reconvened. I do want to thank our panel for the administration for not only the work that you are doing but for your patience. We did want to hear first from does amazing survivors and, normally, the administration goes first. We were kind and courteous to extend that to them as well, thank you. We have to distinguish witnesses, beginning with the honorable sydney dire, the ambassador at large to monitor trafficking, leaving the United States Global Engagement to combat trafficking and support anti trafficking efforts across the u. S. Government. Ambassador dire, from galatians on her confirmation, ambassador dire is a human rights advocate and lawyer with decades of experience working at the local, national and International Levels to respond to sexual trafficking and assault. She was the Vice President of human rights at vital voices global partnership. She worked with theresa glor, to whom i went to high school with. During the clinton administration. After that administration, i guess, time wise. You served on that for 12 years. Where she worked with local government on Civil Society leaders and more than 25 countries, after that did work in europe on issues related to Human Trafficking. Prior to that, she served as the director at the office of violence against women in the department of justice under president george w. Bush. Ambassador dyer began her career serving as a specialized domestic and Sexual Violence prosecutor in texas for more than 13 years, and she earned her bachelor degree from texas a m and her ged from yell or law school. Beside her is miss walz, from the agency of human development. Walls oversees the department of they shun center for democracy and human rights and government. He was most recently an expert at the u. S. Institute for peace from 2017 to 2021. He previously served in government in a range of Foreign Policy bills, including as the u. S. Mission to do and Senior Adviser policy, in the middle east, southeast to the adviser on afghanistan Peace Process and tourism duty and iraq and afghanistan, no easy places to work. I yield the floor to our extinguished the ambassador at large, and i thank you for being here. Thank you so much, chairman smith, Ranking Member wild, distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the United State Department to combat Human Trafficking. Thank you also for the opportunity to hear the amazing testimony at the panel before me. I hung on every word. Time flew by, and it was an honor to get to really listen to them. Thank you for that opportunity. You mentioned fishing is a crime that exist in every country and affects people of every age, ethnicity and gender, with historically and systemically marginalized groups often at greatest risk. The last few years have been particularly challenging, as he discussed earlier and seeing a new trend and trafficking. The covid19 pandemic, inflation, russias war on ukraine and disruption caused by Climate Change have excessive baited entrenched challenges such as poverty and economic inequality, highend job and security and many sectors, diminished access to justice and services, disrupted Global Supply chains and contributed to new ways of risky migration. All of these factors and others have high in the risk of trafficking around the world. In recent years, we have seen increased on recruiting and exploitation of trafficking victims, especially online Sexual Exploitation of children. More forced criminality and forced begging cases and rapidly growing forced labor in scam centers in Southeast Asia to exploit victims. The scale of trafficking is fast. The challenge we face immense, but we are not helpless, and we are using all the tools at our disposal to face these challenges head on. Today, more than ever, the United States sustained leadership and commitment to combatting Human Trafficking in all its forms is critical. As secretary blinken stated during last years trafficking and persons report launch ceremony, it will continue to take relentless diplomacy, coordination, advocacy and commitment if we are going to stop it, and as you noted, the United States is committed to fighting because trafficking destabilizes society, undermines economies, harms workers, enriches those who exploit them, undercuts legitimate business and most fundamentally, because it is so profoundly wrong. The state Departments Office to monitor, combat trafficking, which i have the honor to lead, is advancing the United States global efforts to combat Human Trafficking through a three peak framework. The prosecution of traffickers, the protection of victims and the prevention of Human Trafficking. We address the threepiece collectively in strategic bilateral and multilateral diplomacy targeted foreign assistance to build capacity of foreign governments and Civil Society and advancing the federal antitrafficking policy through interagency coordination. We also partner with international and Civil Society organizations, Human Trafficking survivors and private sector to advance the fight against Human Trafficking. It is a partnership that strengthens the effectiveness in the fight against Human Trafficking. We recognize that all countries can and should do more to prosecute traffickers, provide justice and protection for victims and actively work to prevent Human Trafficking. We are focused on implanting key actions to advance an effective antitrafficking response including addressing Human Trafficking in the context of the impact of russias war in ukraine, decrying Human Trafficking in the peoples republic of china, especially the prcs built and road initiative, highlighting cubas coercive Labor Export Program and supporting diplomatic engagement with countries hosting these works to mitigate their exploitation. Engaging with survivors in underserved communities and preventing Human Trafficking and Global Supplychain tenuous Government Procurement of goods and services. We recognize combating Human Trafficking cannot be done alone. We must continue to work collectively across the Us Government with bilateral and multilateral partners and local government and Civil Society to further advance antitrafficking efforts. Thanks to sustained support from congress in particular through the groundbreaking trafficking victims protection act of 2000 and subsequent reauthorization. The department has wellestablished set of tools to draw upon in the fight against Human Trafficking. For 20 years the trafficking and persons report continues to be the worlds most comprehensive resource on governmental antitrafficking efforts, and dip omatic tools to guide relations with foreign governments. Our most recent chp report included narratives for 188 countries and territories and its introduction focused on the importance of engagement for survivors of Human Trafficking. The tip report is one of the most powerful tools to encourage government around the world to improve their antitrafficking efforts, ensuring it remains accurate, objective and effective is among my highest priorities for the tip office. That targeted us foreign assistance resources we bring to bear to strengthen the capacity of government and Civil Society is an important element of our approach, since 2001 the tip office has leveraged 700 million in foreign assistance funding to support antitrafficking project in 90 countries to address sex trafficking and labor trafficking worldwide. Through bilateral projects and innovative programmings like Child Protection compact, partnership and the program to end modern slavery, our investments produced tangible results. Our assistance helped thousands of Human Trafficking survivors receive vital assistance including repatriation, Psychosocial Support and counseling to rebuild their lives. We have also helped dozens of governments to build crucial legal, policy and Regulatory Infrastructure to care for victims and traffickers to justice. Those who are particularly vulnerable to trafficking like southeast, south asia, many parts of africa, our assistance is helping identify victims of trafficking and ensuring they receive the trafficking and services they need. Chairman smith and Ranking Member wild, thank you again for holding todays hearing and the committees commitment to combating Human Trafficking as the subcommittee considers legislation for the 118th congress, i look forward to working closely with you and your staff on legislative efforts to reauthorize the International Provisions of the tdpa which are a cornerstone of global efforts to combat trafficking. Ensuring Congress Continues to provide appropriate tools and authorities we need to tackle International Trafficking challenges day today and tomorrow is essential. Thank you for your testimony and leadership. I would like to turn to johnny walsh. Thank you, chairman smith, Ranking Member wild and established members of the subcommittee. Thank you for your leadership on combating Human Trafficking all these years. I have to acknowledge the first panel which is unbelievably powerful. All of us in the gallery were feeling emotion rising within us but also feeling inspired by how much courage these folks show. They are more than horrible stories many of them have gone through. There is smart, strategic, and if you will allow me i want to thank staff at the state department, who work on counter trafficking, who are so smart and accomplished, they have done immense amounts to help against this terrible scourge. In 2001 the passing of the tdpa, assistance and 88 countries to support counter trafficking efforts in 35 and in many more are larger body of Department Work that contribute in one way or another, to unpack to the trafficking sites. In fiscal year 22, we obligated 32. 5 million into counter trafficking activities globally, 3 million above our earmark which is an indicator of how important our missions around the world very organically considerably. And between counter Trafficking Program, very large fraction of International Development work helps in one way or another by addressing root causes of trafficking, conflict or corruption or poverty or violence, natural disasters, lack of opportunity or by Building Local capacity in ways that are relevant to the fight against trafficking. For example by supporting stronger judicial systems and will apply. Usaids effective relies on strong presence through the mission and these allow us to design and monitor intervention informed by local context and adapted to local context. Our counter trafficking work can follow in terms of four ps, invention, protection, prosecution and partnership. Briefly, first, on prevention, we work 2 oh raise awareness of trafficking particularly with the most vulnerable groups and high Risk Communities by promoting Public Information and education campaigns. By way of example, in colombia, usaid is working to protect the rights of venezuelan migrants who are vulnerable to trafficking. This program is raising awareness about different methods of exploitation and we complement it with tools like training almost 4,000 Service Providers how to address trafficking issues. Second, on protection, when we think about protecting trafficking survivors, usaids approaches survivor centered, trauma informed. Everything that was said in the first panel resonates deeply with us. We support around the world reintegration assistance for survivors, that means psychosocial and medical services, legal assistance, it means providing safe and secure accommodations, providing access to employment and business opportunities, whatever survivors need. Third, on prosecution which is especially in state department claims, we help with the develop of antitrafficking laws in many countries with real penalties for traffickers and protections for victims. We provide victim centered training and Technical Assistance for Law Enforcement, prosecutors, judges, so they are maximally effective in what they do. If a Regional Program across the caribbean region to improve the prosecution of such cases, helping countries to develop or strengthen National Referral mechanisms to screen, identify and investigate trafficking. On partnerships, there is no way to do this alone, work across government and Civil Society and faithbased organizations, advocacy organizations, we are all in it together. It takes an all hands on deck approach as one panelist said. In senegal, for instance, we bring together all of these constituencies to work on the problem of force child begging, which i cant imagine a more vulnerable population to this problem but a multistakeholder approach is the way we cover most of it in the country. Briefly to close, in december of 2,020 one, usaid revived our trafficking policy to align with the Us Governments new National Action plan to combat Human Trafficking. Among other things, the usaid policy emphasizes consumer centric approaches partnering across all these groups that are referred to, government and otherwise, that are coordinated in our own governments. So chairman, Ranking Member thank you for calling this hearing. We showed believes we are all in it together. We do not have no monopoly on good ideas. Through this exchange we can dance the fight against this issue. Thank you. So much for your testimony and leadership. I do have a number of questions and hopefully we do a second round cycad you to my colleagues. In opening i did mention ambassador dyer the importance of getting it right. I had three hits about how we got sarong in 2015 and i would say that kerry johnstonoehler testified in one of those hearings and information provided in the tip report itself was right on. Was are accurate and but when the recommendations went up the chain of command for other reasons totally disassociate with Human Trafficking three countries are upgraded to either watch list or to know who went to tier two but they were upgraded. China, oman as a mentioned, malaysia was, because they thought theyre going to get into tpp at the time which is making its way through congress, but it was just like these are not chips be given away. This is all about speaking truth to power in absolutely honest way to the best of all our abilities. I want to think kerry because she did a great job but went up the chain of command that we did lose and as a said before reuters with one to broke the story after doing anonymous interviews with the tip office that things got change. Yesterday make the final call the under secretary, secretary of especially but they should just be what you do and we did this when he wrote the original law a special with the lag between bindings in tip and what action might be taken pursuant to sanctions. That is all at Administration Call and then they wanted to go things into consideration. I hope they wouldnt at the tip report has to be sacrosanct. I remote talked to a number of countries who were so angry because they were tier three and they said others were elevated to watch lists and, therefore, nonsanctionable and the records were worse. So the argument isnt really against the tip office or you. It is really against what happens when it comes up the chain of command. If they do it again i will have them or try to come and give an accounting for that. I remember i asked secretary curry, who made the decision . Buck stops with me with the full Committee Hearing. It shouldnt be that way. Oman got it. They had been very involved in the Nuclear Negotiations providing their consulates in europe but that shouldnt be a reason to give them a benefit where it is not perfect same way with cuba because we had an opening up an embassy and i have try to get into cuba my entire career, and i thought when we looked like were moving towards or we have diplomatic relations, i went there with the abbasid and he said but you got to know this, we tell the people you cant see. I said what . You know, thats not what human rights work is all about. They were elevated as well. I just would hope the people of that chain of command will realize that Congress Gets thatt up with that kind of manipulation. Speak truth to power and go wherever it goes. Thats just an encouragement for you because in know youll get it right in the report the next steps the worried its the next steps are more to that. Let me ask if i could. Obviously with title 42 ending last night, we have differences of pain of what we should do visavis the border. I voted for the secure fence act of 2006 which establish everything that we thought would have mitigated illegal crossings. Chuck schumer voted for it. Hillary clinton voted for it as did a lot of other people on both sides of the aisle. There were 80 votes in the senate for it back in 2006 at a think we wouldve had a different dynamic today had that wall been built. Im all for Legal Immigration im all for refugees, wellfounded persecution getting the help they need. One of the concerns and in of the New York Times underscored this, that the office of refugee and resettlement seemingly has lost some 85,000 Migrant Children unaccompanied minors and wondering last in the tip report an obvious of the us is included tip report, it was pointed out the government our government continued not to mandate Human Trafficking screening for all for National Adults and immigration detention or custody. And did not screen for trafficking indicators among the people it removed. Also on the record prioritize recommendations, screened all, this is you, tip report saying this, screened all individuals in immigration detention or custody for Human Trafficking indicators to and im wondering if Homeland Security asphalt to on that on that recommendation made by you . And if you could, do we know whats happened to those children . Is it any further insight . I we all, we heard from victims today. To think that could be tens of thousands of victims who, children, that we just dont know where they are. Thank you, sir. First of all, certainly i personally and the j tip office sugar deep concern about not only unaccompanied Migrant Children but about all migrants in making sure that those individuals who are making a perilous journey are protected and their protected specifically on trafficking. I know that also really addressing the challenges of irregular migration go specific providing protection for refugees and asylumseekers and offering lawful migration pathways are key priorities for the administration to and actually noted that these team Martina Vandenberg during her previous testimony specifically of course is such a recognize the three specifically called out offering lawful migration pathways as a key way of reducing vulnerabilities and that is actually a part of this plan. We recognize that forced displacement in the western hemisphere has reached historic highs. And im also mindful of the commentary about individuals who in her words they are fleeing and under state of desperation. And so we look at this crisis through that lens of sympathy that many of these individuals are fleeing and under state of desperation. The administration is working closely with the interagency group, both the department of Homeland Security which i think has the answers to many of the questions that you guys were very good questions you were bringing up your today. Health and Human Services and department of state. For a role if the department of state and at the that thg in Persons Office we see our highest and best purpose as making sure that were protecting vulnerable, and if they are being screened, to your excellent point, mr. Chairman. One of the are they . That was maybe a year ago in your recommendations. We are, we agree with you all migrants should be screened. I will have to defer to my colleagues at dhs with regard to especially now that title 42 is expiring and title eight will come back up, i will defer to them on speeded can you get back to us so we know in terms of your interpretation of what theyre doing . Absolutely and certainly its a perfect hundred asking the question because we are having a change in the authorities under which we will be working. I do know as a pertains to screening some of the work the trafficking in Persons Office to specifically in the region in the western hemisphere specifically encourages screening of migrants so that they do receive protection and services into the great point of the panel earlier, preventing individuals are at great risk of trafficking from becoming actual victims of trafficking. We had programs in the region specifically focus on screening and prevention. We have Regional Programs that are not just one country focused by the whole of region approach because we recognize this as a crisis that not one country can solve. I think its important to know we have 80 million in Trafficking Program in the western hemisphere which is the region that has the highest amount of programming which i think speaks to the administrations focus and sincere concern about this issue. In addition to the International Programming money that we have there, we are also engaging and bilateral diplomacy, making sure that our allies and colleagues in the region are doing what they need to do to stop trafficking in their countries before it goes further. We are also making sure to call these efforts out in a trafficking in persons report. Please know that i share your emphasis and to focus on getting it right and integrity or download because this user have my name on it but also because we are told dash i worked with ngos in the field who relied on that report to speak what they saw. It serves as a microphone to the advocates and activists so please know that we share your deep concern about that. We are really working aggressively to address this crisis using all the tools that you have given us and paying a specific attention to make sure and also through the Interagency Working Group. So thank you for the opportunity to address that. If you could, do we have any idea, i mean, news media and other sometimes conflate the coyotes or bring people up getting paid to do it. Im just wondering because i havent seen the specifics or the breakout, maybe you have it, how many of these individuals either evolves into modified trafficking situation with young people we dont want terms being imprecise because obviously it is dangerous when you pay sony to bring you up and return it to be part of a cartel at how many of them, any idea how many cases of Human Trafficking we had . And i will say why thats important when we did the original we did Us State Department number of the th0 people come in the year. That was a best estimate and nobody knew but but i put ie findings of the bill. The Washington Post took me to task a couple years later and said how, well, its more like 17,000. Thats because there was a reappraisal that was done ncaa was involved with it and will and is a big page one story that were exaggerating. So i am one of those who absolutely loathes exaggeration. Dont over account or undercount but if you could how many of these cases are you Human Trafficking what would becf these kids . And adults not just gets, the adults as well. Do we have anything on that . I wish you squeeze it i wouldnt want speaker on the number and perhaps i think we should come back to the record with a best estimate. If you could. Again we need accuracy of this as well. Maybe you embed into the tip report that youre just so it gets enshrined in the findings of the tip report. Again, we have done tip work, bipartisan all alone. When republicans dont do it right, weve got to speak up or when the democrats dont do it right where to speak at pickets all about the victims. I can tell you how concerned again about how many of those people particularly the women and children on slate today. So that number would be extremely important and assumes you can find it would be great. And what is being done to help them. Because again there needs to be an all hands on deck on every country, every state any but especially in places like texas and arizona. Let me just ask you very briefly about the dr congo. I did hearing and you and half ago on cobalt. I mentioned it earlier today and the fact theyre that ur a special child labor to extract it and send it to china for processing. The dr congo i know theres an m. O. U. With them at a dont think, you know, theres all kinds of corruption. They dont have a foreign practices act so we know people are being paid off which we have every reason to believe. Those lines are being run by the chinese, communist party. Theres almost no salary to speak of. When americans at one of those minds come since then is been dropped by like 60 in turn the salary salary. And the kids thats just wrong at every level. So just wondering if that something youre looking at. Its reminiscent in a way with what happened in dr congo with peacekeepers. I went to congo, met with the peacekeepers at a course that with Government People and above all with victims when the deployment of their, they are there to protect and there you have the u. N. Peacekeepers. We had four earrings on that before and after the trip and, frankly, the u. N. Said they wanted zero tolerance. They put out a strong statement, and one of the areas we called zero complaints with the zoo intolerance effort. So on peacekeeping in general your thoughts on how well we are doing, or not doing, with regards to these 100,000, whatever the whatever the number is today, u. N. Diploid and other peacekeepers as well. Weve got to stay at that one. You know, because unfortunately when in country the sense of entitlement and abuse is very strong and you have a vulnerable population. In congo these were 12 and 13 year old kids for a meal were being sold. Thank you so much for your concern. We appreciate you raising this issue, and definitely we are paying close attention to the situation in the drc, and also to your good point, a broad influence that prc has in african countries. Recognizing that it is not just a uniquely drc focus problem, that this is prc influence. I was also appreciate that not only is a child victims but there are other adult victims of trafficking that are in equally deplorable situations. We are actually using the Interagency Working Group through the president Interagency Task force and also through the forced Labor Enforcement Task force, a j tip office represents state department on that task force to make sure that we are really taking a close look at any goods made with forced labor. Thats actually been one of the biggest things that ive had an opportunity to do since joining the office in january. We are also i wanted to mention you also touched on the peacekeeping and importance to really focus on this. Ill tell you as someone whos been reading the draft narratives for 2023 tip report, this is this is included. Where absolutely monitoring peacekeeping. Whether not peacekeepers engaging in or contributing to trafficking in persons. Thats deathly something where monitoring and calling out in the trafficking in persons report. The International Bankers law if you could, and thats okay, a lot of you to get past that you get on that one and we know these trips are occurring. We did put a redundancy notches on the reporting that they have to tell us where theyre going or face a very significant jail sentence, identical to make ends law. Long story short, we also put in the language in that what you call it, and the passport, you open it up, the people at Border Security name of country opens it up and says the bear has been convicted of crime against a child and we worked very closely with megan was apparent in getting that into law as well as with members of the senate and were very hopeful on that. Long story short, we understand that theres a lot of people who are not being included in this, passports are good for ten years and whenever theres a a new passport and document that stamp on it so that out of abundance of caution for children. Because we know why many of these comp the proclivity to recommit these cards is a high. Anyway you are doing them a favor. Youre making less possible maybe they will do it, that we could renting a child in brazil or whatever. I just wonder what you think we should be doing to advance this . Im very concerned. Theres up to 900,000 registered sex offenders in u. S. Thats a lot of potential people not all are our child sex os but many are. Well, first of all we absolutely i guess one part of the main point, critics argue the state department should be capturing more the passport application by adding a question on about this. Right now that doesnt happen. First of all, where absolutely supporting the goal of this legislation to as a former Sexual Violence prosecutor im i very well f the recidivism rates and appreciate your leadership here and certainly extraterritorial child Sexual Exploitation and abuse is awful, and when you did everything that we can to prevent it from happening. I know that dhs has the Angel Watch Program which really oversees it and i believe that my colleagues at the department of state in Diplomatic Security are the department of state colleagues that oversee that. For the specific mechanics of how it works, i would need to refer to those experts. But but i will say that in adn to a supporting the goal of this and recognizing its importance, the department is also called s out in her trafficking in persons report, and so it is deathly an issue that we recognize the critical importance of and are followed. We are looking legislation of changing from may register to shall register. Hopefully you can be helpful on that. I met with angel watch people, they are great, wonderful but they dont have the full help from the department of state, becomes more difficult if its more permissive standard. Mr. Walsh, if you could and then i will yield to my distinguished colleague. We who have been reports from ig roth usaid staff potential involvement with and participation in Human Trafficking. I dont know to what extent where that is but as you know and appreciated you saying how you train providers and, of course, staff numbers as well to be very cognizant of being part of the solution, not part of the problem. I am wondering if you could shed any light on the igs investigation . So the nature of the ig investigation would have a whole lot of insight into what stands right now. I would say that generally usaid over the last few years has really tried to batten down our hatches internally. Weve is a bit at a code of conduct across the agency that starts with the obvious things like provisioning involvement, anyway in trafficking for forced labor by staff can i implement partners, by contractors but goes beyond that to in effect render all members of usaid eisen is to be watching for this come to be conducting Due Diligence as we work with stakeholders who might well see something or find themselves adjacent to such an act. And that every Single Member of usaid now in the first few months that they are on board takes training on this so they know what to watch for, the different forms trafficking to date because the sun always, not for people coming in. Its a very intensive control process and thats in advance of any finding the ig comes out with. Thank you. Ms. Wild. Thank you s o much, mr. Chairman. I want to ask a quick question about funding for the trafficking hotline, that my understanding is only minimally funded by the u. S. Government and done more by polaris project on a private basis, is that correct, do you know . If not i will find answer. Thats overseen by health and Human Services oversees that. It. I do know they speedy hhs program, okay. But you are correct that it is okay. Thank you. Ambassador, i havent been, ive been trying not to be too obvious with my scrolling but what i been scrolling about on my phone is topic of todays hearing and i was looking up the tip report that state has done and i think you made reference to the fact that enable go on this in years report and i look forward to that. When does that generally come out . It the tbv requires that ret be issued to you by june 30. So that you are working on a. Its in my sights. Thats great and im just going to ask west africa to make sure that we get a copy of it when it comes out. So but my question, as i was looking through the 2022 report i was most of the countries that i i saw in tier one didnt surprise me. I was a little surprised to see if the philippines in tier one. And i and the author of the philippine human rights act and have particular interest in what goes on there. But, and i will learn more as i evolve on the subject about the criteria and so forth. But my question to you is, how often do the regional bureaus within the state department or other parts of the executive branch argue for modifying . And by that i mean improving i countries ranking based on considerations having nothing to do with the tvpa prescribed criteria . I mean i assume that happens and i will just us to the second part, well, lets go with that first. I will say that the tvpa sets out very clearly what can be considered in a countrys tier ranking and what cannot. And i can assure you that the conversations that we have are firmly rooted in the parameters set by the tvpa. Okay. And one of the good things is that we actually, we dont just communicate or consult with those regional bureaus at tipp report time. We actually have ongoing relationships with them and so that actually does make it much easier. These are not discussions, kind of like an employment review. You dont bring it up for the first time at the review. Something we should have talked about before. We have really pretty good ongoing conversations regarding that only the tip report but also programming in that country. We are very mindful to remain within the parameters that are vertically set by the tvpa. So then i take it from that response that no matter how much internal lobbying there might be by a region or a bureau, the criteria is strictly applied . That is correct. All of my conversation and in all of our conversations we are focused on the minimum standards that are very clearly laid out. I actually, i love being able to have because i can come and actually uses when im explaining to other governments why they may or may not have a tier ranking that they like. Actually the clarity that is in the tvpa is like a security blanket for me and i can say this is what i am here to look at. And its very grounding. Im glad to hear that. I guess that leads me to my next question, and how often do you have to interact with other countries governments on the issue of their tvpa ranking . We actually, we will insert ourselves into any conversation that they will let us sleep in the door. We actually engage in really very, and robust bilateral engagement with countries as well as multilateral. Of note, just yesterday the secretary was having a meeting with a foreign minister from a country and we were able to attend the meeting, too, to make sure that this issue is front and center even if that wasnt the topic of conversation. I think a lot of that is due to the hard work you guys are done with the tvpa. It is relevant and so many conversations and we definitely will squeeze in the door whenever we can. Okay. Im glad to hear that and i will as i said watch closely for this years report. Mr. Walsh, i wanted to switch gears a little bit. I have the honor of representing a district that counts one of the largest ukrainian american populations in the United States, and on their behalf my constituents behalf, and i hear from them often, i do want to ask about russias horrific ongoing invasion and Russian Forces use of various forms of trafficking. Its been pretty extensively documented. Im not sure that its been documented to the true extent that it is happened but we had another hearing and a think we had a full Committee Hearing on the issue of children being kidnapped and taken to russia. I just think the numbers are probably, that we are seeing are once lower the what is happening but just raised on anecdotal evidence. So can you just tell us Jennifer Taub usaid is working to address this situation . Just tell us how. Long before russias further war into ukraine to get this is major area of antitrafficking work for u. S. Aid and for others. And got a partner government in many partners across Civil Society to work i would say across. That included helping ukraine set up its own Huge National hotline that created a lot of reporting mechanism to detect trafficking. Do they have that in place to . They do. There are many other things before but hotline, for example, example is one of many preexisting things that weve contributed to in ukraine that were essential when the true crisis hit early last year. And so we had 6000 people i think it was working on like reporting through this hotline able to receive reports of emergencies in a moment when everyone think of an author in an emergency. Some of those parts about our very hard to get at like who is being held in captivity in russia. But it does mean theres a Large Network to help ukrainians contact and reabsorb kids who could make their way back into ukraine to provide survivor services. Its not just people who are trafficked by way of russia. When a lawyer is displaced that creates vulnerable populations across the board. I think its actually two and a lot of our programming on ukraine but the preexisting was such a valuable foundation to really turn into high gear. So let me just, you lead me to another thought, which is witty make sense for the United States to work with other countries who perhaps dont have this kind of infrastructure in place that you mention that ukraine has, or had before the war . Because it seems to me that that is a vital component of this worldwide. I dont know how many countries have that kind of trafficking infrastructure. Can you give me an idea of like the percentagewise or i would struggle to a size it but your describing the core use of our worth in trafficking. In countries either with the host government is very serious about this problem or where the Usaid Mission class in this is exercise about or both. What better do is essentially a whole of Society Approach that is in the first instance prevented by nature but it is also very much about protection of survivors. It is about upholding and strengthening the rule of law to go after violators. The 35 countries 3n we are currently operating, almost 90 where we have done this, it very often is setting up the systems of resilience that can catch, every kind of trafficking in principle. It works better in some the others. We try to be very agile when theres an opening in a country. So the chairman manchin dr congo before that everything is easy in dr congo the one thing with a might be a moment of opportunity is there reconstituted the antitrust commission naturally picked it seems keen to work with each of us so at a moment when the world is focused on especially labor abuses in the congo for much larger geostrategic reasons, we have this tool that like we can build out into a resurgent multistakeholder approach to really chip away at the problem. Okay. Thats good to know. I would love to continue the engagement with our committee and will what we might do n congress to continue to assist in that endeavor, both in ukraine and the rest of the world, of the countries that need it. My impression at least from our full hearing that we had on the situation with the children in ukraine was that the ukrainian prosecutor general is incredibly cooperative and proactive, am i right in that assessment . That was very encouraging to see. I dont know whether you have that in other countries that you work with or not but im glad that thats the case. If theres anything that we can do, and believe me, i fully understand that ukraine is not the only place that we need to focus on this problem. It just happens to be right now the most visible one i think. And, of course, ive i do l interest because of my constituents. But if theres other things that we should be looking at to improve from our Vantage Point please bring it to our attention. Thank you. Yield. Ms. Red wagon. Thank you very much, ambassador dyer and deputy administrator walsh for appearing today. Usaid has many comprehensive documents including the ct ip field guide, called condit and standard offering procedures that guide to work on combating Human Trafficking among staff. Assuming that usaid has Human Trafficking experts that have read and understand the tvpa and related laws, why is the term sex work used throughout these documents . I think that the term sex work has come into increasingly common use across a wide range of fields including lots of part of the trafficking apparatus of the u. S. Government. I would say that we are not assigned value judgment to it when it has been used and that the official position of the u. S. Government including this administration is that sex work is not meant to connote legitimate legal work in a place, legality of it in different places obviously varies but were not trying to soften or wash the term because use, has a fairly clear positn on. That is usaid promoting sex work as a legal form employment rather than treating it as exploitation . And in cases where theres harboring, transportation, provision or obtaining of a person for purpose of the commercial sex act as sex trafficking in accordance with tvpa . I mean, is the administrator aware of how this approach compromises the safety of u. S. Taxpayer beneficiaries . Where absolutely not promoting this work in any of our programming. That is not policy, that is not the intent. And if ever we were to find an inadvertent and sold it affected one of our programs that have that effect we would address it immediately. Our focus is on the immense amount of trafficking that infiltrates the industry in many different ways, and trying to provide every kind of support, especially to survivors and accountability to perpetrators that we can and that we can help our local partners to do. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you. Just a couple of final questions, and again thank you for your patience. Its been a long hearing and i think very, very enlightening. Let me just ask you with regards to jtf is obviously created the Human Trafficking consultant at work, and im very glad you include victims the way you do and it just wonder if theres any attempt for any plans to try to hire, bring in and make fulltime employees in very strategic positions those who again have lived experience and have overcome what they have overcome . First of all, i completely share your focus on including survivor leaders and those with lived experience. They absolutely are critical in every phase of our program. Not just in drafting the law, yes, but also in how we implement it. And it has been in order to get to work with members of the Advisory Council, even in the highest levels during the most recent president Interagency Task force, and Brandon Myers powell from the Advisory Council spoke and sat at the table right there next to all the cabinet level people. It wishes amazing at such a change from i began working making 93. Suggest its wonderful. We actually, we actually are considering ways to better inform all of our work, and always whether it is to hiring, whether through using the consultant network. We currently do i think the best training that ive ever personally attended was when he came onto the job and it was offered for the office and was provided by a member of the network, the consultants network. She did it in connection with another expert. It is tremendous and were actually thats one of the priorities that i want to make to make sure that we are full some late including in all that we do. I promise it will be it will remain a priority for me. Can ask you how many people are working in the office today . Obviously your people in every embassy that are doing calls and the like but in actual tip office . I believe and i can correct this if im wrong i believe it is about 86 alltime folks and about 27 additional consultants. We also have some Foreign Service officers. I can let you know specifically, and youre right that we do work really close with our colleague colleagues, the Foreign Service officers that are out in embassies that a kind of the boots on the ground. Its great honor to get to collaborate with them. You may not like this question but is your budget sufficient . Could you do more with more resources . Im not going to turn down piles of money, but you know lack of resources. We are able, we are a lean mean machine and were doing really, we are fully meeting our mandates. We do have a terrific staff with amazing expertise. I have specific enjoyed getting to work with some of our Foreign Service officers, too, so we appreciate your focus on us, thank you. Mr. Walsh. On the question on the road survivors in our agency, the first thing i would say is such is the prevalence of this crime and that any agency of largest u. S. Able absolutely have a great many survivors working for it. There is no way around that. Second, we very formally ended a concerted way to incorporate survivors in designing basically anything that has to do with counter trafficking. For instance, our global antitrafficking policy that we put out was based on consultation with survivors who we brought in for very vigorous backandforth exchange that versions of the Chicken Program designed around the world. I would say we often see these s very virtuous followon effects on that. As one example in bangladesh we did a major antiTrafficking Program that included, like training and a vast range of service to help survivors. The sort we talked about. The essential graduates of the program self organized into their own National Advocacy network of survivors and they are pushing the Bangladeshi Government which is to set up in many cases in a way that we ourselves couldnt possibly have achieved. Its this virtuous cycle. And then in terms of, im not going to way too much into funding questions but i which is referred back to my very first point which is we dont have centralized dedicated antitrafficking money at usaid and submissions are looking at their discretionary budgets and making choices among uniformly virtuous causes. It is very clear here at figure that the demand for antitrafficking resources is quite high. Like, it easily outstrips every year a minimum year mark. We in the center trying to inform those programs and make them as effective as possible but reflects not just the scale of the problem but to do something about it every, without telling people just organically around what. Im so sorry to step out, esther chairman comer i have to get to a 1 30, but im going to be following up. Inc. Is a a village for holdig this hearing. Just one or two final questions and we will submit a few for the record as well. When the interagency meetings occur, does Homeland Security get into Justice Barrett as well, into what the prosecutors are doing are not doing, u. S. Attorneys are doing or not doing to make this a priority . Every time, every administration we have tried very hard to say please make this a priority. I met with my own u. S. Attorney unnumbered times, say please, please make it a priority. You know, if they comes from the attorney general it is a priority. Im wondering especially with these huge numbers of Migrant Children, unaccompanied minors and others who potentially, i would hope you get back to us asap on those numbers, i mean we i believe have a catastrophic situation underway now, when they have gone missing and being exploited while some very heavy focus and you are prosecuting, focus on Law Enforcement with the idea its all about rescuing bullets were after the perpetrators of these crimes will make a difference. Does that get discussed when you have the interagency and again, with all due respect when certain people say oh, the board is secure, well its not. Evidence every day at future lines of people coming in the border this but i couldnt be more about those individuals. In the opening i have heard from several people including the present of guatemala how many of these women and young girls are sexually assaulted. Its just, its outrageous. So what is discussed in the interagency meetings about we need to go after this with everything weve got . One thing that bush did when he first got elected, first began as it took him a while to intimate that tvpa and its hard to say that, but then when he did he did rescue and restore conferences all over the country. I went to a few of them. I went one, he did one in tampa and is to get the local prosecutor everybody, ngos and the whole faithbased community. It was to say make it a priority, make it a priority. Quickly priorities become less been so if we dont ever promote it. Im just wondering if come just asking again, is it a priority enough among all the different agencies . Thank you so much for asking. As you are asking the question i was wondering if youd eavesdropping on the night yesterday. Because not only do we talk about it at the president Interagency Task force and certainly of the Senior Policy Operating Group that we have one off meetings we go into deeper detail. I had a meeting with hillary axum yesterday who in such a fan of. She is head of Human Trafficking prosecution unit at doj pursues also the new National Coordinator there at doj on Human Trafficking and she and i were talking about this literally yesterday. So we are absolutely focus on it. Were absolutely trying to make sure also another thing that we talked about i think interestingly i know people who present been in this role have been prosecuted but theyre all federal prosecutors. I was a prosecutor that had a can of corn propping up one corner of my desk because we have all the research but many state and local are getting these cases. We were even strategizing about that. So please know that i dont want to over emphasize prosecution because i know deeply all that occurred at it as a prosecutor which is what i worked at a for nine years and at a nonprofit but certainly of a role to play it is top of mind as recently as yesterday. So thank you so much. Not to belabor the point but is any ballpark number as to how many of the Illegal Migrants are trafficked . Juno, and you bring up a good point. The migrants are deeply at risk of trafficking or the very reasons that you spoke about earlier. Many times they have debt that they have paid some would help them get across the border and then once they arrive they are not able to pay off that debt. They are ending up in a place in debt bondage. Thats one of the most common ways. I do not have a specific number for you but i will definitely commit to look and see if they exist because we certainly recognize that migrants are deeply vulnerable for the reasons we talked about. Im happy to look in to see if theres actual again, dont conflate with smuggling and i kind of thing because we need a clear line of demarcation even though sometimes smuggling matriculate into trafficking situation. We need to be as specific. A preshould you get back to us asap. We do have a final question or questions for my friend and colleague, ms. Radewagen. Thank you very much mr. Cherry. Actually i have two questions. Heres the first one. Mr. Walsh, the revision of the ctiic policy in general 2021 was for the first time survivor inform my paying survivor consultants for their expertise and review of the documents what steps did usa take to ensure the revision in december 2021 was also survival informed. The policy highlights survive informed approach to what steps are being taken by Usaid Mission to create local programming and our survivors being paid for the Consulting Services to u. S. Aid . So that policy is essentially a guidance that washington puts out to any Field Mission that wants to do Trafficking Programming or to renew it. And is conveying best practices overall priorities, and thats true across the range of fields. If there was one foremost principle that we try to imbue in this version of the ctiic policy, it was the survivor centered framework through which we want every program to be designed. I wouldnt describe it as new per se but it is our foremost priority. And so now when missions do design these programs, we will send topnotch expertise to help them to help convene survivors, to inform the local context of any Given Program speedy excuse been mr. Walsh. My time is short. You are not answering my question. What steps did usaid take to ensure the revision in December December 2021 ctip policy was also survivor informed . I, i fear i miss missing which part of not answering. We consulted with a group of survivors. I could come back to you on who was paid versus not paper i would have to look into that. I wouldnt want to misspeak. But they were central drivers of the core ideas in the policy, and by extension our programs are designed thusly. And with your permission, mr. Chairman, ambassador dyer and mr. Walsh, antitrafficking organizations often in concert difficult in applying for and competing with Large Development organizations for u. S. Funded programs because federal contracting procedures are complex to say the least. How can jtf and usaid develop system for antitrafficking implementation that help the smaller organizations such as setasides for survival led organizations or increasing the number of smaller grants that only grassroots organizations are likely to bid for . Likewise, is there ctip accountable officer usaid 12 with these efforts . If so, if not, why not . I actually really appreciate that question. I worked at a nonprofit where we focus on supporting locally led Women Leaders in womens organizations. You are so right that they were unable to apply for not just jtip funding for just any federal government funding. It is very complicated one of the things that it think that jtip has done a good job of is many of our programs require like a local organization and so some of our big programs, we have the Main Organization is a big, big nonprofit that is able to do the Financial Disclosures and they have a done number and if all these things but theyre required to work with your l in the field. So thats one of the ways. The benefit of that is a lot of times those local ngos actually get on the job Capacity Building with the hopes that they cant at some point learn to do it themselves. So thats something i know weve done that with our program to end modern slavery which we are very grateful to congress for helping sp us. I know weve done with that program. And i know one of the things i really focus on is as a former grantee of the jtfs office is making sure that we really making sure that our programs are not only available to the smaller ngos but also that our grantees are survivor led. And so really focus on that so thank you for your question. Administrator walsh . First of all, localization one of our Top Priorities across areas. It certainly applies you. Theres a continual balance between ensuring accountability for the money that we put out into the field with minimizing the burden on him for mentors such that small organizations local organization are as able to compete for, to implement programs with our money as any large conglomerate. And so i think we look at that as number one, the percentage of money that is going to small organizations. But it is localization on ctip program anything else is also about local voices to sign it per our last topic, is about how involved are the in monitoring the program as it goes on. So helping us gather very localized data so the work we do is tailored to local needs. And by way of one example i would say in malawi theres an Organization Global hope mobilization really Inspiring Group that is the direct of a mentor of the real whole of Society Approach across really all the four ps. There is no international media. Its very Effective Group of locals in a country that is experiencing like a democratic and human rights opening so really important moment to take advantage of. In terms of you asked about the senior official accountable on some level, i regret to note that its me. We are in the center, we are vastly smaller than jtip in terms of a dedicated antitrafficking office. That is somewhat ballots by the fact that our missions are implemented any more decentralized way, the vast budget of usaids worked on the group. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Yield back. Thank you thank you. I can want to thank you for your leadership. I thank you for your patience. This is a very long but i think a very, very insightful hearing from first our first panel and now the both of you, so thank you for that. I do want to thank cspan for being here. You know, they have independent editorial judgment as to what they cover because theyre so many hearings on capitol hill and so many that they can go to. They are here today and they have provided an opportunity for americans to hear you and to hear our extraordinary panel that preceded you, and the victims who just poured out their hearts about what they went through but also what theyre doing to mitigate hopefully end this horrible scourge of Human Trafficking. So thank you. The hearing is adjourned. 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