Transcripts For CSPAN3 France And Spain During The American Revolution 20170507

France, and the entry of spain into the war. Arms and supplies from the spanish governor of louisiana aided the american cause and the thech army and navy made yorktown victory possible. The stories of our nations early days cannot be told without reference to the national archives, diplomatic correspondence, treaties, military commissions, and more on the internet American Revolution. Will enlighten us about the roles france and spain played. Lets now hear from the panel. To lead the discussion we are happy to have rosemarys regarding, processor professor at george Mason University. Ferreiro, author of men and arms, teaches history and engineering at University George Mason University. Francois furstenburg, professor of history at Johns Hopkins university. His parents, are the furstenbergs here . Onyou have ever shopped st, it isut at fur furstenberg. Please welcome them. [applause] good evening. I from george zagar Mason University and we are thrilled to see you tonight. The first item of business is to let you know that it will not be in french. Maybe you are disappointed but maybe you are relieved. In any case, what we would like to do first is have each of our authors speak to you for a few minutes about their books, and give you a general sense about what they talk about in their books. We will be talking among ourselves, and try and give you a good understanding of some of the issues that they discuss. These are issues that you may not have thought about, because when we think about early america, the post revolutionary period, we tend to think primarily about england and the new United States. This discussion will introduce you to a whole other dimension of the conflict involving france and spain. Lets start with professor fe book, to talk about his brothers and arms. In 1776, written was engaged in war with america and we were fighting britain was engaged in war and we were fighting for independence without gunfire, artillery, or a navy. France and spain were historical enemies of britain with the naval strength to defeat the british, which is why we needed their alliance. They would notally they would not ally with us if they sought as a civil war. You can see john adams quote, which i have to read. Would notgn powers engage with us until we had acknowledged ourselves as an independent nation, and adams was not known as a fan of foreign entanglements. The declaration of independence alone would allow European Countries to treat with us. The declaration was not commissioned by congress as a message to george the third. He had already gotten the memo. He knew the americans were fighting for independence, and the americans knew this. They also were not sending the declaration for the American People because they American People had sent delegates to philadelphia to vote for independence. In fact, the document that is upstairs in the rotunda was written specifically as a call to arms, and engraved invitation asking france and spain to come and fight alongside us. Started the war, we were be reft of gun power, guns, artillery, and france and spain first began to furnish all of these arms. Even before the declaration of independence had been signed, a french merchant named be , thecher, and silas deane envoy in paris were negotiating for the sale of arms to the United States. Early 1777, a , 20,000ipment of arms guns and other accoutrements that arrived just in time to supply the americans who were about to face, who were going at saratoga. You can see this quote by caleb stark who was there, that unless these arms had been timely furnished to the americans, he they would have made an easy march to albany. It was french arms which turned the tide of the battle and gave the americans their first taste of victory, age or victory at saratoga. , there wereime volunteers from france and other parts of europe who came to the United States. They came to fight the british because that was where the enemy was. Along the way, they came to make the american cause their own. Uponngton came to depend these immigrants who got the job done. As the musical hamilton so aptly portrays. Right, louis deporter became washingtons righthand demand righthand man. He was able to help washington deploy the strategic intent of the continental army, that thought is a professional professional army under the not so gentle gaze and the lash of baron von story than steuben who created a program at valley forge, and took a somewhat ragtag group of militia and formed an army that could actually go toe to toe against the british. Of course, lafayette, the best known of the group ended up with an independent command in the southern theater. In those engagements, he kept cornwallis from coming north and he also followed cornwallis all the way to yorktown. Europe, there were two individuals who were the most important characters in this whole story. To my right was the French Foreign minister, and of all the heracters, he was the man was the one who made most of the decisions that concerned the alliances both between france and the United States, and between france and spain. France and spain were allied. They had been allied through family ties called the bourbon family compact. Both kings were descended from louis the 14th. Even though they were allied they had much different goals. The goal of france was to sufficiently weekend weaken britain so it could regain the panel balance of power it lasted lost during the sevenyear war. In that alliance was also spain. Badly in also come out the seven years war, and they lost a lot of territory including florida. Their primary goal was to regain territory. The french American Alliance of 1778 brought france into the war for the first time, and what that did was bring most importantly the french navy into american waters. Any war at this time with britain was always going to be in naval war. Her member, britannia ruled the waves. It prevented britain from having the kind of dominance it used to to be able to resupply and move troops around. That knocked them back on their heels but it would not have been enough until the Spanish Foreign minister, on my left, who as i mentioned established the spanish goals of recovering territory like gibraltar and florida, to come into the war. The entry of spain and to the war in 1779 fundamentally changed the nature of the war, from a regional clash in north america to a global conflict. The combined spanish and french navies outnumbered the british, and they were overwhelmed. They had to defend not only their troops and territories in north america, but their colonies in the caribbean. They had to defend land such as gibraltar and mallorca, even as far away as india. Louisiana,back in the governor of spanish louisiana was supplying the gunpowderroops with and guns and supplies, but as soon as war was declared in 9, he lost a series of that brought down the british. Pensacola,s always which was the capital of british west florida and was the key to gulf of mexico, which spain wanted to recapture. After a few setbacks by devastating hurricanes, in 1781 he launched a joint spanishfrench attack that took pensacola and got the british part of the gulf of mexico, at just the right time. Right about then, the french commander came to the caribbean and asked the spanish to please guard the french colonies in the caribbean. That is where the money was, sugar plantations in the caribbean. Please guard those colonies from the british while i take my fleet north to the chesapeake. Admiral whohting was loved by his sailors. They said he stands six foot four and six foot five days of battle. Learned hegton they was heading to the chesapeake and they raced south from new , and surrounded cornwallis in yorktown. When washington came aboard stoodaslagship, two inches taller than washington. He was one of the ancestors of the rockstar astrophysicists Neil Degrasse tyson. He was landing his fleet around the chesapeake when the british fleet under Thomas Graves appeared. Grasse sortied his entire fleet, and the British Forces at yorktown could neither be resupplied nor evacuated. That sealed their fate. The story of yorktown is pretty well known. Washington and rochambeau led them on a quick march, surrounded yorktown, laid siege for five days and that was directed by wrench officers who directed french officers. The french also lost twice as many men as the americans. , who washarles ohara cornwallis second in command came out to surrender he saw it as a french victory, and offered to surrender to rochambeau, who knew the moment belonged to washington. He directed ohara to washington. Washington would not take surrender from somebody elses second in command so he directed lincoln, his second in command, and the battle was over. The war was a world war. By the time yorktown was fought, britain was fighting five nationstates, the United States, france, britain, the dutch republic, and the kingdom of mysore in india were all fighting britain. Battleary, during this during this war, 200,000 french and spanish soldiers and sailors fought, as compared with about 250,000 to 380,000 americans. They were as invested in this war as we were. Thatwant you to know america could never have won the war without france, and france would never have fought the war without spain. When i hope all of you take away is this, that america did not achieve independence by itself. As aad, it was borne centerpiece of an International Coalition which worked together to defeat a common adversary, that is pretty much who we are today. The centerpiece of International Coalitions striving towards a common goal, and that is why we remain the indispensable nation. Thank you. Thank you. [applause] professorl have france offers than berg talk about his book francois furstenburg talk about his book, when the United States spoke french. Let me begin by thanking rosie for moderating this panel discussion. It is an honor to be here with you forand thanks to hosting. It is an ideal pairing, these two books because if i had written it a little bit later i would have understood it as a sequel. I am glad you wrote yours first. Leaned heavily on it. As we learned, the American Revolution was really a french victory. At least, i think it is fair to war,as a french more a french and spanish war as much as an american war. One of the things we can talk new name really need a for this war, dont we . In a sense, everything i will talk about follows from what larrie was talking about because just as the seven years war led into the American Revolution, the American Revolution led into the french revolution and the napoleonic wars that lasted nearly a quarter century. There are lots of factors and causes of the french revolution. Probably few things have been studied as much as that one. The debt left over from french involvement in the American Revolution was enormously expensive. People keep forgetting that wars are very expensive, and this left a crushing debt on the french government. This debt was the catalyst for the french revolution. When the french revolution broke out, americans were thrilled. This was the most powerful monarchy in europe that had suddenly, out of nowhere, fallen to its knees. It was like a dream for people, it seemed surreal. It is hard to capture the excitement and shock. You have to think of may 1968, the fall of the berlin wall, arab spring, president donald trump, all of these astonishing, sort of unbelievable events, they all wrapped up into this one spectacular moment. The americans thought they started this all. In 1792 france became a republic it republic and in america there became a frenzy. In 1793 king louis the 16th was executed and aristocrats were massacred in the streets of paris. Many fled to the United States. The book that i wrote was about five of these refugees who came to the United States on their american adventure. I thought using their stories would be a way of looking at Early American History from slightly different eyes. I had originally envisioned this is a small, little project, something i could get over in a couple years, but it illumined into something ballooned into something much bigger. It took me way beyond paris and philadelphia through london, the caribbean, and into the american continental interior. It grew beyond aristocrats to include slaves in haiti, native americans in the ohio valley, and all of them were involved with the story that i was trying to tell about these five figures. I do not have a whole lot of time tonight to tell you all about the book. I will introduce you briefly to the five characters and structure the account, and tell you three to four important lessons i drew from the research and writing i did, and we can elaborate on that as we talk at through talked it through. The first of the characters that i studied was the former french archbishop who sat at the constituent assembly and for foes propose the nationalization of french land. Hereent a couple of years along with all these others. Also lafayettes brother in law who fought in the American Revolution. He was the person who negotiated the french terms at the surrender, cornwallis surrender. In the 1780s when he returned to france became a figure in onorm circles and presided august 4, 1789 when feudalism was formally abolished. Was one ofharacter the wealthiest aristocrats of old regime france. As the master of the kings wardrobe, he burst into his bed chambers to tell him of the uprising in paris. Is it a revolt, the king asked . Traveler and a famous writer and future senator. The last character was a lawyer and historian who had been born in the caribbean, married into a wealthy planter family and had gone to paris to write about french politics. These men were all aristocrats but they were level liberal. They saw themselves following in the footsteps of the American Revolution and they admired the constitution, and hoped to implement a Constitutional Monarchy and france that with books substantially similar. When the french revolution began, they became its leaders. I think it is fair to say that had history taken a different path they would be considered the french republics founding fathers. That was not the past that history took. A were forced to flee to the United States and settled in philadelphia. I do not have time to talk about the whole book, we have copies on sale outside, but i will make a few points and talk about what sort of surprised me as i did the research. It was rain forest as i did the research and writing. As a did theces research and writing. They came at a time when the United States was nothing like the power it is today. I think it takes a leap of imagination to understand the country as it was then, a week, fragile collection of 13 states, continually under siege by native and foreign powers. Today, the United States is a continental and global power but then its sovereignty extended to the appellation mountains with some jutting into the heart was in the caribbean, that was europes main interest. The islands that produced rich stores of sugar, coffee, all of the products that were powering the economy. It was to protect these he is it was to protect these french islands. It may have been the major reason it interview. Intervene. American harbors were expected to provide naval bases in the caribbean. American resources like lumber and we would supply this sugar colonies just as they had been for so many decades supplying the British Sugar colonies. It would be the strategic interest that motivated the American Revolution. Benefits that french authorities expected to reach after the American Revolution, using american harbors, american ships, american provisions to supply their colonies. It didnt work out as they hope for reasons that we can talk about. Revolutionion also spilled over into the caribbean. Shortly after the revolution exploded in france, it broke out called katie today. In the northern part of the colony begin rebellion that turned into a revolution against slavery. Under the leadership, the vote and invaded the british navy. The american seeded french desk france and spain france and spain. The revolution would upend the atlantic economy and it would bring tens of thousands of refugees pouring into the United States. This was another lesson that was driven home powerfully over the course of writing this book. It was the importance of the hatians during this during this period. To note how the United States was transformed into a global power without incorporating the history of the caribbean. The last thing that i learned is that philadelphia, in completely different ways than i had before. Philadelphia was the capital of the United States. It is where the refugees that i was looking at all settled. It was a different city dont what it is today. With a population of about 40,000 people, which is roughly the size of a large american university. Not even the top 10 american universities. The city itself was geographically tiny. All of the population was on the banks of the delaware river. It was incredibly dense city. A density of 70,000 people per square, murder. That is much denser than philadelphia or even manhattan. To see that type of population density you have to look to bombay. Thousands of french people poured into this mix, mostly coming up from the caribbean. It is hard to assess exact numbers, but i was never able to figure out exactly how many. Somewhere between 3000 and 8000 french people came into philadelphia during this time. Somewhere between 8 and 20 of the city was french speaking. 40,000 people are living in an area much smaller than a mediumsize university campus. The sudden arrival of all these thousands of french people was a significant event. These waves of refugees pouring into the city really altered its social and cultural likeness. Wine, silk and mustard began arriving from distant ports. Housests build enormous in french neoclassical styles. They felt them with french furniture, french tapestry. The aroma of french food raw wafted through the alley behind south 2nd street. Including the delicacies by the pastry chef a french pastry chef. The theater echoed off the cobblestones of the streets. He studied with the hairdresser and opened a shop carrying to philadelphias national clientele. French dentists, french dance instructors were all applying their services. The french language rang out on philadelphia streets in its most refined social circles. French newspapers, french taverns, all of the sheep the citys cosmopolitans public fears. My five fingers figures all settled in this one philadelphia neighborhood area they live together and eat together, they socialize together and forge intimate connections. Every day he was in philadelphia, he would drop by in the evening and open our hearts to one another and poured out our feelings. Each of us knew the others most intimate thoughts. They ate nearly every day at a french bankers house. Bankersig house. The United States is the only country where there is 32 religions but one dish. One. Bad one good r the course of resource research, i realized the 1780s and night 1790s was a largely forgotten period. This was a period when the United States most turned towards the world in general and towards france. These merchants who structured the elite social life of philadelphia were rich from french trade. Mywas into the circles that guys socialized. This, they took me through the elite parlors. It eventually brought me in contact with the continental interior where they were investing heavily in backcountry lands. The story that never occurred to me and i never thought to follow up on. It brought me into contact with important geopolitical issues bearing on issues with the caribbean. Ultimately on the Louisiana Purchase, or the louisiana fail depending on your perspective. With eventsied up taking place in the caribbean. From 1793 to 1803 is an extraordinary transformation. The United States was hemmed in between the Atlantic Coast and the appellation mountains. It struts stretched all the way to the atlantic mountains. Much like the story of the American Revolution, all of these transformations cant be understood without references to events ticking place in the in europe and the caribbean. American history, our history is so intimately tied up with histories of other parts of the world. [applause] let me start with a question for both of you, i am sure the audience is curious of knowing towards,of you turned or found your projects. How your own background or interest led you to this slightly offbeat pass path. For me, myberg mother is french. Had what economist call a competitive advantage in terms of being able to read a foreign language. American historians, i am sorry to say arent able to do. Interested in doing french history or even french inflicted history of the United States. My first book was on George Washingtons image. It was in a sense it was less about intellectual trajectories and more about personal trajectories in my case. I got a job in montreal, which was a institution. Institution in quebec i was teaching american u. S. Istory to french students i was in a department where there was only two of us out of 20, 25 or 28 people working on u. S. History. In many ways, this was an interesting place for me to be. I do not think i would have done this book if i was teaching somewhere else any u. S. Moretment, or in a american place. I wanted to make connections with my colleagues and students. I was trying to figure out something that would connect is period of American History i was interested in. At a time when many prominent historians were kind of expanding the focus, there was a move to internationalize our atlanta size American History. To me byd been opened a lot of scholarships. It meant that i was able to work in this field and make what might have been a marginal it was something that would draw the attention of other historians. If it into the problems were talking about at the time. It is really a combination of the intellectual and political context. The fact that i wanted to do something french inflicted. I came at it from a much different to direction. Im a naval architect and i designed ships for many years. Last spanish that name and that is why i went spanish. As part of my job i went to france to work in their navy for several years, in their ship design division. I did a lot of research on the side. Woulds i would tell all of my french colleagues that i learned french for business but spanish for love. [laughter] mr. Ferreiro my wife still like that. [laughter] mr. Ferreiro while i was there, my firstborn son was born there. The roots of my profession and decided to get my doctorate in history of the risey, and look at of shipbuilding in the age of sail. There i discovered that france and spain had worked together with right after the seven years war ended. A must before the treaty of paris to rebuild their navy and create a combined navy that was going to defeat her in. They did that by defeat britain. This all became part of my doctoral works. Up,y children were growing they had to combine their forces and it was that combine maybe that was really the key to britain. When my children were not in school, i saw that france was barely mentioned in the story of the revolution, and the spanish not at all. I begin to wonder why there was a gap between what i knew and what i saw. Andve the idea to my agent she said, i think there is a story there. Ive said, i think so. I spent the next year bringing my kids up and down battlefields and in cap mintz encampments. In addition to the work i was finding in the archives, i found a much wider story then america had started in 1776. You all know the battles. It was a world war. ,gain, just to be very clear any kind of for that anybody was fighting for in at the time would always be a naval war. Because ofthe story my naval background. But also because, when you are doing anything involving engineering, you are always excuse me, you are looking at what the larger context is. Why were they building up this fleet, which is a Huge Investment in manpower, in supplies, and there was a political intent to defeat britain. America was always going for france and spain. America was always going to be part of that equation. They always knew america was going to go up against britain at some point. They certainly were prepared to exploit the American Revolution that they knew was going to happen. Long before we did as part of that goal. Fleet that was a what amounted to a Large Coalition that would eventually defeat a common enemy. Each one for their own reason. That is no bad thing or it you do not go to war because bad thing. You do not go to war because you are being altruistic. I sought three nations, each had individual goals, but those goals had a common purpose. That is what we do today, just to be very clear. Othere l. A. Ally with nations, we do so with other interests. That is what got me interested in it. Is sohink what interesting about this kind of approach to the late 18th wrenches ushat, it out of our traditional united. Tates centered narrative we see how interconnected america was with the rest of the world. I think it is easy for a lot of nonhistorian to think, isalization globalization a 20th or 21st century invention and we did not have wars until the 20th century. What both of your work does is these help us see that, kinds of connections of people, alliances, geopolitics existed for centuries, if not, millenia s. One thing i notice, neither one of you address while your remarks had to be brief, but there was a lot a suspicion between france and french people in america. After all, before the American Revolution, the people in north america were largely anglo american. They considered themselves british. French was the traditional enemy of britain. There was also a very strong anticatholic element. S, ieach of your period would like you to talk about attitudes towards france that americans encountered. Open welcoming with arms, and how you think it changed americans attitudes towards france. Mr. Ferreiro should we do a chronologically . You make all the points that i found. The sentiment against the french, which was in part because theyd the enemy during what we call the french and indian wars we call it the seven years war. It was only a decade old. The memories were very strong. All the other aspects meant that when the first french volunteers were coming, they were not wellregarded. Nathanael greene said these are so many spies in our camp. Thats how he referred to them. When the first battles, especially, and i point this out as brandy wanted, things changed. The congress, washington, other offices did not know what to do with these people. They were coming in, some of in terms ofest where they wanted to be placed. There was no political way to insert them into the American Military system, which was as much political because generals were chosen based off state, e than they were based on there were not that many battles that they fought prior to this. It was hard to see them do better in battle. That really made things difficult for congress. A few subsequent battles were fought and they had to throw them into these mix and the french volunteers did quite well. I point out that one of them, butay not know his name he was an engineer. His army corps of engineers now medal for for courage and boldness. It was the first acceptance that were french volunteers equal to the americans in terms of how they could fight. Eventually, they showed that they were able to contribute and contribute a lot. Attribute and contribute a lot. Job done. Ants got the washington relied on them, congress accepted them. At the end of the war it was Coalition Warfare in the sense that we think of today. Of room in my book the relationship between ro sham bo. They saw each other as equals. Even though rochambeau, who had alliance waser the always serving under washington. Their relationship was one of equals. The soldiers respected each other. Even after the war, washington came to reload on rochambeaus advice. There is a wonderful line where he says we have lived together as brothers, which is one of the reasons why my book is titled this. This is something where if you have ever been in uniform, no matter who you are serving with, the bonds between people war fighting and a common cause, far out weigh outweigh any differences that might of cause. What i covered comma it was more of a band of brothers ideas. Then of course, things changed. Mr. Furstenberg it is a really funny, sort of paradoxical relationship. For a long time it was a french friends relationship. They were at war for a century. The colonists had been fighting french settlers. Anticatholicism was such a big part of british identity. The revolution comes along and everybody is profrench and they are celebrating. They have pictures of louis the 16th. They have pictures of the monarch. This transformation, i think there is continuity as well. There is an undercurrent of antifrench and nt sentiment that continues. It is not too hard to unleash it. To activate these currents. I think it explains in large part, they equally sudden transformation. On the french revolution breaks out, everybody is profrench. The last real problem with france as an ally is the fact that it is the most powerful monarchy in the world is gone. These are two different republics. The francoAmerican Alliance are stronger than ever. They are in a0s, quasiwar with each other. There is a huge falling out. Thatnk that has to do with kind of continuity between the antifrench sentiments. The other thing, it could be partly based on culture and partly based on religion. There is a french tendency to view this falling out and the strong native sentiments and laws that emerged in the late 1790s, which people still referred to as an outbreak of antiimmigrant and antifrench paranoia. I will say there were some reasons to be worried about a andch presence in french efficient in north america. Part of that has to do with the ways that French Settlement had developed in the previous centuries. The french had been they were , exceptttler colonies for the small exception of the st. Lawrence valley. Had been a france system of alliances between native americans and french settlers and french traders, and French Military officers. Long after france left the continent, these native dominate continue to western regions militarily and many of them and these old french alliances existed. There was a scene and one of the memoir of his travels. There is a scene where he talks , heatersng out west someone speaking french so he tries to find out what it is. It is a native american. , thendian says to him americans they are brothers, but the french were our fathers. Aere is a sense that there is strong bond. French authorities are counting on this when theyre looking to the west in the 1790s. There are counting on old alliances to be remobilized. Americans are quite worried about this. It is not just a cultural thing, there is strategically this turn towards an antifrench sentiment. It is like this kind of love hate relationship. When i started the research worse the era of pouring out french wine in the gutters. There are some things that continue to go on. Can jump in, if i the link between the militaries remained reasonably strong. Whens during this period the new nation have decided that it needed to have a professional army, even in peacetime. It was under Thomas Jefferson, a little bit later that the idea of a military academy, which was first proposed by one of the characters i pointed out earlier. It was created at west point. The first supervisors of west fests first leaders of the army corps of engineers and they were french. They continue to maintain that connection. Textbooks, much of the training, much of the instruction continues to come over from there. On the other side we began to create a system of manufacture or it i mention that we had no real capabilities making arms. That changed when many of the french engineers stayed. They begin to create factories. Many more came to the time you were referring to. He was one of the family dupont was one of the gunpowder manufacturers. As they were able to impart their knowledge, americans did what they do best, we take what other peoples other people wee and we change it, and create our own system out of it. The american system of manufacture, which became what we would call mass production, it really began with the french engineers that had come over. Starting in the military, but then elsewhere. Sentimentspite the of larger parts of the populations, there were always strands of connection that remain strong throughout this era. There was the founding of the society of cincinnati, which was an organization of american and French Military officers who had served in the American Revolution. This was a very visible and controversial sign of discontinuing relationships. The Organization Still exists and is still based right here in washington. It is still a hereditary organization with a membership goes to the forced firstborn son in france or sydni in the United States. That was one of the continuing bonds as well. One of the other things you mentioned, larrie is that france and spain entered the war for particular purposes. Not because they were enamored in republican government. Not because they were actually that sympathetic to the idea of the United States becoming an independent nation, but because they had their own strategic goals with relation to bring in britain. The geopolitics continues into your period. You want talk about the story of how the United States got the Louisiana Purchase . I dont think it is widely known outside of historian circles. If the get is one that is fascinating. As i said, when the french intervened in the American Revolution, they had an idea that this would help them. There was always this expectation that france would he in war with britain before long. There was a sense that, in the next war, having the united aids is an ally to france would be very useful for operations in the caribbean. Ashaving the United States in ally to france would be very useful for the operations of the caribbean. A sense that, these north american colonies in british possession make our caribbean colonies very precarious. By french think that detaching the north american colonies, not only with the n the british empire. Because of the military fallen out that happen in 1790, it was not working up this way. The americans and George Washington with the revolution declared neutrality. Trail of thely a treaty of amity and which they sign in the American Revolution. The french were expecting the United States to stand by their side. I dont think anybody expected them to send battalions over to europe to march against britain. The provision french ships to help man and repair friendships are these beautiful harbors along the coast against british warfare, which the United States systematically would do. Many historians would say this was a very wise decision by George Washington, but it was not what the french had gone into the revolution expecting. Decide by the late 1790s that it would be important to have colonies of their own in order to maintain their hold on the caribbean. This is the main reason that napoleon came interested in acquiring louisiana. The entireas mississippi valley, everything up to the Mississippi River to the rocky mountains. It would serve all these purposes that they are expecting from the United States. It were provide aces for naval support. It was supposed just it would provide supplies for the caribbean colonies. Supply provide supplies for the caribbean colonies. Hat was why napoleon wanted it he sent a huge army over to take louisiana. Problem was, the caribbean from his perspective was that the caribbean colonies were in outright revolution. Slavery was undermined dramatically by the haitian revolution. He sought to put the free slaves back into slavery. He sent the army tens of thousands of french troops. Expectation was, they were pushed down the haitian revolution, but former slaves back into slavery. From there they would fail out and take hold of louisiana. Its hard to imagine how the massive the would have thought the massive french arlie from new orleans. It didnt work out that way. It was the success of the former slaves in defeating the french forces. More french soldiers died then in waterloo. It was a brutal war. The french army was defeated. Once it was defeated, there was no way they could go to new orleans. There wasnt much purpose anyway. They lost the most important caribbean colony. It was the success of the haitian revolution that led to the indiana purchase. It was at at that point that napoleon so they now largely worthless piece of land to the american from his perspective. [laughter] this is one of the great ironies. It was the success of haitian slaves, freeing themselves, fighting off the french, maintaining their freedom, that led to a massive expansion of slavery across the deep south, alabama, mississippi, the mississippi valley. It took the stage of the civil war few generations later. Great. Amongcan keep chattering ourselves, but we like to open it up to questions from the audience. You can go to the microphones, their or their. Dont be shy. Think you very much, this is fascinating self are. Ive a question about the willingness of the United States you said certainly we were interested in having france and spain as allies. Gunpowder,their assistance. So we were thinking about it terms of cost and benefit. To what extent was the United States willing to make additional concessions to these foreign powers . One of the mentioned previously that spain was trying to recapture some territory in florida. Certainly the french had additional interest in the United States as well. Was there any discussion among the americans in the politics of the United States, what we were willing to concede to these foreign powers . Thank you. The alliance between was always between the United States and france. Spain did not formally align with the americans, so there really were no prenegotiations to speak of, certainly no concessions. Some concessions came afterwards when they were debating about where the line of control on the mississippi once. But during the war, the treaty of alliance and military treaty it was theily treaty of amity and commerce its based on john adams model treaty that was very specifically economic in nature. That is what franklin had gone over with originally. Said, veryy treaty little that i can remember in 1778 about any concessions about land. There was nothing in there about, we will pay for this or that. Thiswas not a transaction, was a treaty. Theres a difference. Treaties are i have your back, youve got my back. So in this case, it was, america agreed that it would not end the fighting unilaterally, nor would it make a separate peace with britain. As far as france was concerned, it would not stop fighting until britain agreed to the sovereignty of the United States. Those were the terms of the treaty. Assaultm wrote a coat when spain wrote something to its alliance with france in 1789 it also stipulated that spain would not stop fighting until britain agreed to the be sovereign to the United States. Again, no direct alliance, but spain and france together said britain is other either we isl be defeated or britain going to recognize america as an independent nation. Does that answer your question . Did you mention that the biggest battle the American Revolution didnt occur on american soil . I was surprised to see the siege of gibraltar, which started the day after the treaty of another a treaty was signed, and didnt end until the , probablyere signed pulled in more soldiers and sailors from both sides. The numbers by sour Something Like 60,000 spanish troops were arrayed around what meet set the stage, maybe not all of you knew that gibraltar had been british territory, even though it was physically attached to spain, since 1704. Im a have a date a little bit wrong. It had always been a thorn in spains side. For britain, this was a strategic point. It of course guards the entrance to the atlantic and mediterranean. Britain is a naval power. Britains army was ok, but britains navy was second to none. Gibraltar was always a naval stronghold which is why they fought so hard to keep it great for fourhe siege raged years. There was a battle that took place in 1782 and number that was so fierce, there were Something Like one shell fired every three seconds. By the end of it, there were explosions with mushroom clouds the same as you would see over japanese cities 200 something years later. This was just a fiercely fought battle. In. Ain never gave men they came in at the end still in possession. This is why one of the things , and you said this rosemary, very well we have had an american centric view of the war. Many of the battles took place well outside the view or knowledge of the americans. They werey overwhelmed. Yes . Thesei understand it, five were refugees after the french revolution took a leftward turn. 1793,as their position in when the jeffersonians and their allies were urging that the u. S. Give aid to france during the war on the continents . Did they lie low, with a part of the game . Great question. The short answer, they were lying low. They had represented this kind of Political Center in france, a political liberalism which collapsed as the french revolution became more radical, so they were forced to flee. They never gave up their sense of freshness frenchness. The on the possible exception is a man whose wife and father were executed and 93. For the most part, they always understood them selves into. Early years that they were here and 94, 95, they dont seem to have any kind of political ambitions so far as i can understand. I was hanging out with hamilton he was giving him suggestions about military operations, movements, things like that, for training. Not for war purposes. They would go and socialize they knew washington earlier. Bit of correspondence with him. I thought with washington washington decided, to answer your question about tonight, this is a genetic came over as ambassador. He didnt want these guys to have anything to do with washington. He feared the french minister the person was hitting him, then genetic, feared that these guys the trying to sway americans towards an alliance with britain. Hat unfounded but that is what they worried about. Essentially washington they cant come to my love is anymore, public reception. They stopped coming. Social is mostly federalist circles. May was good friends with jefferson, he spent a few days, maybe weeks at monticello had a long correspondence with jefferson later repudiated. Political alliances or sympathies would have been with the federalist, but they never got involved in federal politics. That changed by 1796. As the falling out began between ends and the United States france and the United States, they became more there was no , but i gun or anything think someone was passing information. Not sensitive to pollute it was political information. The then french and messenger ambassador who was expelled long ago they were understood to be in alliance with france at that point. There were fears that people were traveling in the west, was a clear what he was doing. There were other people, french officers who were traveling along the ohio valley looking at ts,rican forks for military encampments. They were clearly trying to recapture this area. Eventually, the ones who were still here in 1798, when the aliens were passed were actually targeted for expulsion. Becauset the country they were kicked out or were about to be kicked out. Their politics, and a sense, may have stayed the same. Everything was swirling around them. French politics changing so dramatically, diplomatic relationships were changing. I view them as having not changed very much in their own view. Everything else changed around them. The whole world moved around them in a sense. The situations are quite different. Can ask a question . Always had trouble its been in the quasiwar with france. Even having read dry of what the events led to and why, and what caused us to dissipate . The francoAmerican Alliance by this time had been was in tatters. Never talk in 1797. Their powerful antifrench sentiments emerging. Their american ships being captured by french shipping in the caribbean. So theres a sense the federalist who have always been antifrench revolution since 1791, they are mobilizing for war. They view antifrench Political Sentiment as their means to get back into power or to hold on to power, anyway. So john adams sends a diplomatic contingent to paris to try to negotiate some kind of peace. Adams did not want war with france. Arched federalists, including hamilton, mobilizing for war against france, and they were right to read this was their path to power. Its not the first or last time that people would view more as their path to political power. Adams, who i think in my editorial comments, deserves great credit he did not want a war. He sent this mission to france to create try to negotiate peace. That was with the foreign minister, who handled it very badly. He demanded rides, rather than negotiate peace. The political situation, in part from his experiences. He radically misread this. He demanded bribes. To the american negotiators left one tried to keep things together. There were these demands for war. Despite john adams, he had to hamilton became general. Washington was named general. Theres this weird moment. It was a quasiwar. This is an interesting moment, military history. I think it may be the first time there is an undeclared war, a lowgrade war. Basically its about military battles. Its an undeclared war. The ways in which wars conducted ultimately, adams basic he restrains things. They negotiated peace. The cover never completely blows off, but theres Navy Operations in the caribbean, being captured the last thing i will say, the line between formal war and not is unclear. A lot of operations have to do you know this better than i do privateering. These are prevalent commercial shipping, which are given letters, which allow them to navy. As a defective thats whats going on, its privateering when dr. George logan of the logan act, is a private citizen from philadelphia, goes over and unilaterally on his own authority tries to negotiate a settlement with friends. After that the Congress Passes this law that is seen invoked today, strangely enough. He was a republican. He didnt want this, he went to on his own accord to try to negotiate peace. It was not viewed well by for obvious reasons. We have a patient question are over here. I was wondering whether theres other narratives, i french perspective on this, and also perspective of the native americans. Washingtonat george had participated in in 1752, which was a disaster started the war. It was basically going into trying toalley and take that land. As a result, the french and indians defeated operations. Some treaties came out of it that basically restricted the expansion of the United States, the appalachian mountains. As with the treaties in effect that allowed the french and indians to get along quite well in their relationships. They kept the americans from expanding. After the revolution all bets were off. It was great destructive to populations. Also it was a little upsetting to the french, who thought they would have some kind of the buildup of what you call this undeclared war as the federalists, in new england especially, looked for canada as their first part of manifest destiny, which eventually results the capital of canada. The kind of america on its own commodes led to the burning of washington in 17 1814. Theres also a different perspective from the canadian, french, and native American Point of view. Of understandd our current history, which is continually spreading its values militarys with some force. We build on these ideas that its all good to be a part of this expansion with weapons. Im just thinking, maybe theres another way of approaching it. [laughter] we have reached may the end of empire. So the perspective you are referring to, native americans, the effect on them, also the enslaved people, the people of the wave ofpart of historical studies that have recast the revolution and its aftermath. The book i can think of for the candidate is in french. The name will come to me eventually. The other aspects were he will say than by alan taylors American Revolutions. You might want to also get a good 241 discount with his american colonies. He treats us very well at the aspects you are talking about. American revolutions go for about proceeds of the seven years were through to about 1820 , talks about that sweep of history of which the american war thats a civil continues. The drive into the ohio valley afterwards, displacing the native nations. All become part of that fabric. Its quite well done i cant ,eally answer the question because somebody already has, is what im suggesting. From the native american perspective, the revolution not longterm was a catastrophe. On, iicans not w think they would have been in a stronger position. The recording were allied with britain supposedly they had longstanding alliances. There were obvious reasons also for them to support the british. On the the nato were allied with the americans. The are quite lost. The british lost. They were not in a good position after the war. Thatme around to thinking from a general native american perspective, if you can posit periodthing, this whole from the applicant the seven years war until the war of 1812, was one long war. It maintained to maintain their territory, to keep the americans and british out of their territory. Ultimately losing more. But there were several different haves where things could turned out differently. Its not hard to imagine things turning up differently. One of them is when you are referring to. When the french and americans signed this alliance, americans committed to themselves not to negotiate peace with britain. The broke that. Commencement. Its largely because they fought they were probably right that the french would try to keep the ohio valley as neutral territory. So americans didnt want that. They got the concession from britain by negotiating a separate peace for from the canadian perspective, its a complicated question. First of all there is no canada until much later. Its really british north america. Things get reappropriated. The 200long ago and anniversary of the war of 1812 the government at the time was mobilizing which always made me laugh because there is no canada. In retrospect it becomes canadas war. Pivotr one of these points could turn out quite differently. Americans invaded canada, the british north america. They thought they were going to take it. In retrospect, they were pushed out by the british empire. Out for a moment that canadian poverty was established. That wouldnt be contested after that. There were rebellions in the 1830s, but the americans by that point had no interest in ingey themselves ally themselves. Thats the last attempt of the theycan revolution thought french settlers would rise up in alliance with them. That wasnt the case. But these two things are very much tied together. Puticans were continually wanting to push west. First they pushed up against the french, then the british government. Never want to these restrictions. Y pushed up continually there was this push west that drove this early history. By the way, i dont want to leave spain out. Go into anyng to detail. The same forces were happening spanish florida as well as what was the viceroyalty of new spain, which was mexico for much when youwest think about north america, it really is a confluence of three large colonial powers all trying to push in the same directions. Whonative american actions were not in any way a monolithic set of nations, but many nations around the lands, were continually being forced into regions that they did not traditionally inhabit nor did they want to be in. History is starting to starting to see historians rethink this relentless push west. The north,ng from the east to the west, also pushing from the south. Whats always amazing to me , at this point, we are talking the end of the 18th century, there are three big actors in the whole of north america. Suddenly there is a dozen or more independent nations. Suddenly in this territory that used to just be the battleground of three great powers, now is a halfdozen or dozen nations trying to figure out where they are going to go from here. That was the impact of this revolutionpostrevolution peri od. Closing remarks . Questions to the audience . By the way, we did what you know that there will be a quiz. [laughter] in french. In french. We would like to remind you that both books will be for sale, both authors will be available for book signing. Theres a 15 discount. We invite you to read more deeply into this fascinating americanto the revolution. Thanks much for coming. [applause] interested in American History tv . Visit our website, cspan. Org history. You can view our tv set schedule, preview upcoming programs and watch College Lectures companies into words, archival films, and more. American history tv at cspan. Org history. Monday night on the communicators, michael beckerman, president and ceo of the Internet Association made up of 40 Internet Companies including google, facebook, and amazon, talks about new internet regulation proposals from the fcc, and how to preserve a free and open internet. Mr. Beckerman interviewed by Political Technology reporter margaret harm harding mcgill. The fcc is proposing to remove the Agencies Authority over internet traffic exchange. Can you explain why that might be a problem . At the end of the day, its about consumers. You are looking at the internet, you pay your Internet Service provider via comcast or at t, whoever it is. Youre paying a lot of money and you want access to internet. If your experiences altered in some way if the site is blocked or slowed down or theres other things going on, as a consumer, you dont know where thats happening in the process. You dont know. All of that should be included there to protect the consumer and their ability to access the entire internet. Watch the communicators monday night at 8 00 eastern on cspan2. The story and Annette Gordon reed talks about Thomas Jefferson and the enslaved hemmings family, who worked on his monticello, virginia, plantation. He she discusses sally hemming who she argues has six children by jefferson. The university of Mary Washington in fredericksburg, virginia, hosted this event, as part of their great lives lectures series. [applause] [clears throat] wow. It is perhaps appropriate that on Thomas Jeffersons birthday, we bring to you one of our most petite prestigious speakers. Professor Annette Gordon reed is the one who definitively cracked the case, as our speaker on tuesday might have said, on one of American Historys most complex and now expunged until now, expunged stories, which is the relationship between the jeffersons and the hemmings. Professor gordon reed is the Charles Morin proor