Transcripts For CSPAN3 First Lady Martha Washington 20150425

Block going back a couple of acres, which means she owned a huge chunk of what williamsburg was. There was a lot of tragedy in Martha Washingtons life. She lost her first husband. She was raised a rich woman she was raised a rich woman and what that means in the 18th century is not what it means today. When she marries George Washington, she brings with her to mount vernon 12 house slaves, and that is really almost an unimaginable luxury. It took 10 days to travel here to valley forge from mount vernon in her carriage with her slaves and servants with her and this was a difficult journey. Marthas experience had prepared her to become the first first lady. Born in New Kent County virginia in seven 770 she was 57 years old when she and George Washington left mount vernon in service to the country. This time, their destination was new york city, selected as the nations first capital, where they began the first of their two terms as president and first lady of United States, setting important precedents for all their successors in the white house. Good evening and welcome to cspans brandnew series, first ladies influence and image. For the next year, we will spend time on personal biographies with each of the women who served in that role in the white house as a window into American History. Our first installment is Martha Washington. For the next 90 minutes, we will try to serve up the essential Martha Washington with two people who have come to know her well. President ial historian Richard Norton smith, whose biography of George Washington is called patriarch. And patricia brady, who is done a part of the of Martha Washington subtitled an american life. Why does Martha Washington matter . Patricia she was the first and she was one of the best. Those things always count. She was able to help George Washington make it through the American Revolution and then two awful terms as president. She was his helpmate, always. Susan the concept for this series was something that you championed early and were a Guiding Light into how cspan might do it. What was your thought as a historian about why studying first ladies should matter in the society we live in today . Richard first of all, we dont know enough about them as individuals. We do not know enough about them for the windows that they open upon their individual periods. Individually they are fascinating. Collectively it seems to me they , provide a way of tracing womens history and the history of the country and any number of political and other institutions as well. Ultimately, i suspect our viewers will be surprised by a lot of the information that they hear over the next year. These are surprising stories that we will be telling. Susan four Martha Washington, we went on location to a number of sites important to her biography and during the next 90 minutes, well show you the video. As always on cspan this will be , interactive and we will begin taking phone calls in a little while and tell you how you can be part of the conversation. You can join immediately by social media. If you are on twitter, you can send us a question or comment using firstladies. On facebook, we have a question posted for you of anything you would like to talk about in Martha Washingtons time or her life. We will make some of those questions in as well. We welcome your participation. We will spend the first 15 or 20 minutes on the two terms in the white house. Patricia not the white house, the president ial host right, the president ial mansion in new york city. 1789, she comes to new york city a few months behind George Washington. Start by telling us what kind of opinion the American Public had of these two people as they took this Important Role . Patricia the opinion they had began with the revolution. At that point, when martha would ride to join her husband as she did every year in the winter camps, people would just line up behind every tree and on every fence post to look at her. She said, i felt as though i were a very great somebody. She was somebody for the first time as his wife. The newspapers reported at on how important it was for him to have someone like her. They started then when they came back as president and his lady the public already had an opinion of them. They were singular characters. The other politicians were not in the same ballpark at all. Host give people a sense of how hard it was to make the basic decisions about how the new government would function including this role. Richard in fact, the decisions about what a republican or a president was are inseparable from what we would perhaps condescendingly today attribute to the east wing of the white house. For instance, would the president and first lady accept private dinner invitations . Would the president and first lady go to private funerals . What do you call a president . Indeed, what do you call his consort . The reason why these questions would seem trivial to us today matter is that each one in their own way define the nature of this new government which was, after all, to some degree, a spin off from its royal antecedents, and yet the country was split right down the middle between those who feared that it was in any way aping george iii. Then as now it is remarkable and then eyes in 200 years ago we still have a dichotomy , about what a president is. How close does a president and his wife get to us . The fact that mrs. Washington had every week a friday night reception that anyone could walk into as long as they were decently dressed, you would not find that in london. It helped to define not only her role, but, in a larger sense the access that americans would have to their president. Host staying with that thought if the only model that the , washingtons and the rest of the newfound government had were the very european monarchies they fought a revolution to distance themselves from, where did the washingtons draw other there examples from . Their examples from . Patricia they talked it out. People see washington as this strong, marble leader. He was more than a statue. He always liked to talk to his associates. That is one reason he was criticized as a general, because he liked to talk to his staff before making a decision. In government, he thought all the best minds of the country would get together, talk things through, and make the right decision, because we were the first modern republic. Now it is so hard for us to understand that there was nobody like us, so what ever they did mattered. It was important. Host lets take a snapshot of that modern republic with some basic facts out what america look like a 19 7 it in 1790. This was from the first census ever done by the new country. The census maker was Thomas Jefferson. Here are some facts and they gathered about the new United States the 13 former colonies, now the 13 initial states had a population of under 4 million. 757,000 of those are blacks, and only 9 were free. The per capita income was 437 and it was more than that before the years of war. Years of war had reduce the per capita income. If you translate that income into 2013 numbers, its 11,500. The largest cities in the country were new york, philadelphia, and boston. What should we learn about those three large cities . Richard first of all, i want to point out that two of those 13 states were not yet members of the union. Both North Carolina and rhode island held back when the rest of the union adopted the constitution. America was overwhelmingly a rural, rustic, agrarian, farmbased society. It ended at the appalachian mountains. In 1800, there were three roads that crossed. The United States was a nation in name only. It was, in fact, three distinct nations. New england, the middle states and the south. And each of them had one major city. Philadelphia was the largest city in the nation with all of 40,000 people. One of the things that Martha Washington, i think, frankly found not altogether to her , liking was the fact that she was uprooted from the agricultural, rural life at mount vernon that she knew and had been born into, that she had mastered in many ways and relished. It is only the latest chapter of her sacrifice which, in its own way, i think you could argue matches anything her husband sacrificed. Patricia thats true, she did not want to go to a city. She did not want to live in the north. She want to be home at mount vernon. But she had to be there with her husband to do what her husband wanted to do. She gave it up. The thing that made her so very unhappy was to discover that once she got there, that washington had consulted with john jay and James Madison and john adams, and they had all decided that president s could have no personal life. That any entertainment, any going to visit people, any having people in was, in fact, a public act. So they could not just go hang out with their friends or ask their friends over, and that was just for one year. The first year was terrible for her at the same time that it was pretty good for him. Jefferson had not come back from paris yet. That was probably his honeymoon with the presidency. Host let me put this quote in here to get marthas state of line. This is a quote from her. I never go to the public place. I think i am more like a state prisoner than anything else. There are certain down set for me which i must not depart from. And as i cannot do as i like, i am obstinate and stay home a great deal. Richard there is a line after that that someone should carve over the entrance to the white house. First of all, i think it goes to the heart of who this woman was and why she was the ideal first first lady. She said these code is to go to spoil but she taught that she said that the experience in her life had taught her that her happiness or misery depends upon our disposition and not our circumstances. That is a remarkably wise observation, but it is an observation distilled from a life full of tragedy. She had lost a husband. She lost all four of her children. She lost countless nieces patricia outlived all of her siblings. Richard absolutely, and then she found herself repeatedly uprooted from the life she expected. To follow george on the battlefield or a different kind of battlefield. And together, with very little precedent, they devised this new government. Host but she chose to follow him. This is the mark of a partnership. Patricia they were very much partners. He was so miserable until he could get her to join him wherever he was. I was going to say, the quote about the prisoner of state that was in the first year in new york and that was a bad year when she was still having to follow the rules of the men. When they went home to mount vernon, she worked on her husband, so that when they went to philadelphia the next year, the rules were changed. She was not a prisoner. He was also off on a monthlong tour of the northern states, attempting to unite the country. She was depressed and by herself. She was much less happy at that time than any other time really. Host once she moved to philadelphia and became happier because the restrictions were lifted, although she lived in philadelphia society, new people there. We will show you a video from philadelphia and get a sense of martha and George Washingtons life there in the second capital of the United States. It is here that Martha Washington carved out the role of what the wife of the president of United States should do. Some of the social events that Martha Washington would have been responsible for overseeing are state dinners that were held weekly on thursdays, as well as the drawing room reception that Martha Washington personally organized every friday evening. The state dinners would have been events that martha would have had to help coordinate. These took place on thursdays, every week. Just above this dining room on the second floor, was a drawing room. That is where Martha Washington held her drawing room receptions on fridays. Those events were a little more informal as compared to the state dinners found here. And George Washington was always in attendance. He probably preferred the social engagements more on friday then the events he held here in this room because they were informal in nature. The events were open to the public. Any one of social standing was welcome to attend. Most people remarked that George Washington was more at ease with his wife Martha Washington at his side. We know Martha Washington lived among a household with as many as 30 people. These included paid severance indentured servants and enslaved , people from mount vernon. One of the most wellknown was oney judge. She was the personal maid to Martha Washington. Because of the nature of her duties, it is likely she would have slept right here in the house. In that time that Martha Washington was in philadelphia oney judge runs away to claim her freedom. This was a major blow to Martha Washington. She felt very betrayed. She had promised oney judge to her granddaughter once was married. Host washingtons life in philadelphia, do you want to comment about that . Patricia i need to Say Something there which is about sappy 19th century images. The 19th century liked the idea of having an almost regal Republican Court here. There was no dais to in those rooms. There was no place where they raised above the other. Nor did she stand. She set on a sofa and guests came and met her there and walked around the room as they pleased. The idea that it was somehow so regal is so wrong. It was not. Richard it is so frustrating that anyone who has dealt with the primary sources from this period are grateful for what we have, but we are constantly hungering for more. We have countless secondhand reports from events like this, and they are unanimous. Everyone talks about what a charming conversationalist martha was. How she was always cheerful and always interested in her guests. Patricia her smile, her beautiful teeth. Not many had beautiful teeth then. Host it is also important, as we talk about her interaction with the American Public the , slaves that they brought with them we just heard the story of oney judge it is a good entry point to talk about their relationship with enslaved people. Patricia when they married, they felt the same. They had grown up in virginia. A good part of the wealth of virginia was built on the labor and persons of enslaved black people. And so, they agreed with it. At that time, washington was rather strict with his slaves. But as time went on, his views started to change. He was the only one of the Founding Fathers who freed his slaves. The rest kept them until they died. Her opinions did not change. It was unfortunate. I wanted it to be different, and i looked for i read every word i , could find. The one slave that she actually owned personally, she did not free. She left her to her grandson. The truth is, she felt it was the way society was supposed to be. Oney judge had let her down and because shed always been kind to her and she did not , understand that onie wanted to be free and learn to read and write and that she wanted to find christ in her own way. Richard in a lot of ways, it can be said of washington as it could be said of lincoln later on that he outgrew the racist culture that produced him. One major reason was because during the revolution, after having initially turned thumbs down to the idea of recruiting free blacks, the fact of the matter is that africanamericans played a vital role in the winning of the revolution. Washington saw firsthand what these people were capable of doing. He saw the courage, he saw the sacrifice they were humanized in a way that was not possible on the plantation. Life taught him a lesson very different from martha. Host washington spent the entire second term in philadelphia. Your chapter on as the torments of the second term. One of the things we so often do not learn about was about the trials of things like epidemics. Philadelphias population was more than decimated. 12 died in the early part of that epidemic. What was life like there . Patricia yellow fever is one of those diseases that one tends to think of as a southern caribbean disease. New orleans. But the east coast of United States was frequently struck with yellow fever. The yellow fever was killing people right and left. Alexander hamilton had a very bad case but survived. That was part of the torment. But the real torment for washington was to see that his friends and the men he respected, instead of coming together to make a new form of government, were falling apart into two parties. He would never have believed that jefferson and madison and hamilton would become enemies of one another and that they would be doing everything they could to keep each other out of office instead of working together. Host before we leave this section, because we will work our way back through earlier parts of her life you mentioned adams. Martha washington had a relationship with abigail adams. I was tickled to find out there was almost a sisterhood of revolutionary ladies. [laughter] can you tell us about who was in that and how did they interact . Patricia they really had a lot in common. They were both wives who were partners. They were not wives who were stuck to the side and left out of everything. They were both deeply committed to the idea of this new republic. That is something they cared about. Host they were very political in that sense. Patricia they were very political in that way. They also helped each other socially. Abigail was extremely pleased and tickled by the fact that her place was to the right of Martha Washington on the sofa. And that if another lady came up and took her place before she arrived, the president himself would ask her to leave so that abigail could set there. Sit there. She almost had a crush on Martha Washington. She was a wonderful person. Richard abigail is left to some delightfully lofty accounts. Of life in philadelphia. Including the friday night receptions. The one person who escapes her occasionally harsh tongue is invariably martha. She says she did not have a tincture of hauteur about her. It is a wonderful phrase, but even now, it evokes that this woman who could have been queen, George Washington could have been king and she could have been queen and not the least of their accomplishments is that each refused. The ground crown. Host last question on this section, you paint a portrait that George Washington was a robust subscriber to newspapers of the time and read them. And that Martha Washington devoured the newspapers as well. Patricia she loved to read. She read a lot. When she did not actually read the papers herself, washington would frequently spend an evening reading aloud to her and whoever else was there. He would read a story, and they would all talk about it. She was not a person who was out of what was going on in politics at all. Richard that does not mean she liked what she read. Host how did the press read her . Richard she came across criticism. Not personal criticism. But one of the fishers of the early days was this quote democratic with a small d jeffersonian element, who are all on the lookout for anything that seemed monarchical. There were those, believe it or not, who thought that the president s weekly levy on tuesday afternoon and her dinner every thursday and her friday night reception and the fact that he rode in a carriage to federal whole, that somehow they lumped all of this together and suspected aristocratic, if not royal inclinations. , they were always on the lookout for that, not so much directed at the first lady, per se, but the administrations represented. Patricia the difference from martha and every other first lady beginning with abigail, is that these were private comments. Others made private, unpleasant comments about her, but it did not appear in the newspapers. Nobody said she is so uppity and is so full of herself. Whatever that might want to say about her. Wives were offlimits. Once the adams came in, from then on, wives had been fair game. Host i want to give you the phone lines. In about 10 minutes, we will go to your calls and you can join in. If you live in the eastern or central time zones you can tweet us with the firs tladies or post on facebook. Williamsburg, virginia was the place where george and martha met. We will learn a little bit more about Martha Washingtons life in williamsburg next. Williamsburg is as close to her hometown as Martha Washington would ever get. She was connected with this place well before she was born. Her greatgrandfather was the first rector of bruten parish church. You cannot get more embedded in the life of this town than that. Her grandfather, Orlando Johns we have his house that is reconstructed here on duke of god chester street. Gloucester street. And they owned a plantation outside of town. And her daughter married don patridge and they moved no more than 30 miles away. In cans county. That is where martha was born, chestnut grove. Her growing up there williamsburg was then the center of political and social and cultural life in all of virginia, but certainly in this part of virginia. Given the fact that her father was engaged in a lot of political and economic activities, this is the place where she would have come to more often than any other place. This is the area that she was kind of born to. If you were anyone in society, you came to williamsburg, if you are from new kent. Her mother was in williamsburg society. When she became of age to be brought into society, she was being brought to the balls and the assemblies here. She was at the balls at the royal governors palace. She was certainly at the assemblies, at places like the raleigh tavern. When it is time to be brought out into polite society, williamsburg was the place to be, because her mother knew that williamsburg was where her daughter needed to be. Martha falls in love with daniel kustus. That is her first husband. She knows as a farmer, a plantation owner but she does not know that daniel kustus the son of jon tester sue owns seven properties in williamsburg. Most of the eastern shore. She falls in love with his son daniel, thinking he is a man from new kent. When daniel goes to his father and says i want to marry martha dandredge, he says she is not fortunate enough to marry into the kustuses. The dandredges where wellknown. Marthas father was a clerk of you cant. She had a warm nature. People fell in love with her. John blair and john proctor go to john kustus on marthas behalf and tell him if he meets her, you will change your mind about her. I would love to go back in time to see what the meaning between them was like. Whatever she said to this man, he said she was the most amiable young girl and he could not see his son marrying anything better than the young dandridge girl. I think we can kind of see williamsburg as her proper home away from home. This was the place where she owned property. She owned a house. Her first husband and children are buried right outside of town. The closest members of her family are within 20 or 30 miles of williamsburg. She can easily reconnect with them. We are at Bruton Parish church in waynesburg, which in many ways was martha , washingtons home church. Her greatgrandfather was the first minister of Bruton Parish church. Roland jones. He is buried on the inside. Her grandparents are both buried in the church. Probably more closely connected to miss Martha Washington than anybody else, other than George Washington, is her first husband and their first two children. This is the final resting place of daniel park custis, Martha Washingtons first husband. This figure stone was ordered for him from london. Although he and both of their first two children, their first son and their first daughter who lie here, were first insert at their plantation outside of williamsburg, there remains in these stones are moved here to basically her Family Church in the early part of the century. This is the custis tournament. This is one of the buildings that Martha Washington owned in williamsburg. In fact, she owned most of this whole block, going back a couple acres. Which means it she owned a huge chunk of what williamsburg was. Martha washington stayed here off and on throughout most her life. Williamsburg was the political social, and Cultural Center of her world. She was here when her husband, daniel park custis, was a prominent member of this community and she was here very often when George Washington was a member of the house of burgesses, when he was a medical leader in the colony. A political leader in the colony. And, of course, in order to be able to protect and promote her own business interests in the area. Host some beautiful scenes of cw, of Colonial Williamsburg preserved today. What about her williamsburg years were important to the woman she became as first lady . Patricia one of the things you have to realize was she was a teenager when she became the fiancee of daniel park custis and he was 20 years older, and he was a bachelor because his dad never let him marry. Nobody was good enough. Not only did she overcome this elite prejudice on the part of his father, but she helped bring him into a reallife with the children and Everything Else in his late but he was so rich. 30s. He was so much richer than most people around. She came from a lower gentry family. They were not so rich. She learned how to manage property and to manage money and to take care of things that would serve her really well for the rest of her life. She was smart, as far as money went. Host 25 when she became a widow . Richard yes. But just one statistic to put this in perspective. Mount vernon, at its peak, was about 8,000 acres. Daniel park custis, when they were married and martha was 19 years old, brought 18,000 acres into this marriage. And the video, which was wonderful if anything, it understated just how thoroughly curmudgeonly daniels father was. His tombstone today has an inscription he wrote which announces he had never been happy except when living apart from his wife. They had a tempestuous relationship. Whatever it was that this 18 19yearold young woman was able to say made an amazing impression. About nobody would have predicted. Something about patricia the force of her character. Richard and her personality. Host so she becomes a very very wealthy widow. Perhaps the most wealthy and emerging colony. At age she was quite a catch. 25. What was it about George Washington that she saw and was attractive to her . Patricia i think it was mostly that he was such a hunk. He was 62 at a time when most men were 58, 59. A wonderful horseman, wonderful athlete, fabulous dancer, very charming. And he really liked women. He loved to talk to women. Always, his whole life long. And he had begun to show the type of leadership that he would later show more of. But in the estimation of those days he was the lucky one. She was the catch, rather than he. Host a colonel at the time and distinguished in his military career. Richard but he would also be a real catch in the sense that remember, she had four children by Daniel Custis, two of whom died quite young, and two of them survived, for now. And, of course, she had all that property. So George Washington would also fulfill vital roles, even as a partner. Patricia she could trust him because he was so clearly from the time he was young, a person of such integrity. Host on that note, so people get a sense of what life was like for women in early america, women had what kind of Property Rights . Patricia as a widow, she was in a fine shape, because her husband did not leave any kind of trustee. She could do what she wanted to. Host is that common . Patricia fairly common. It was much more common to leave male trustees, though. He just did not get around to writing his will in time. Once women got married they were covered women and all of their financial and any other kind of dealings were carried out by their husbands. Richard she had a dowry of the custis estate, which is basically a third. She had a lifetime interest in. In her case, that included about 85 slaves. The rest had to be managed for her children. Host our Twitter Community is really enjoying your comment of George Washington as a hunk. [laughter] patricia he was . Host we often see pictures of Martha Washington such as the porch or on the screen now. In your biography, you have a very different, attractive Martha Washington. Accurate is this portrayal of Martha Washington . Patricia very accurate. People criticized it and said, why do you have to show her young . Well, we all start young. You are not born at 65 years old, jump out of the warm with a caps on. With a cap on. Patricia it was important to show what she looked like as a beautiful young woman, so we took a picture from mount vernon to a Forensic Anthropology Lab and they did an age regression to show what she actually looked like at 25. I wanted to say, what did george see when the door was open and he walked into the drawing room . What kind of woman did he set eyes on . It was not the Gilbert Stuart old lady. It was a beautiful young woman. Host about the children, Martha Washington had four. She outlived all of them. By the time, she met george , there were two living children. What was his attitude toward these children . Did he take them on as his own . Richard he really did. Later on, he famously adopted the grandchildren, in effect. Washington loved children. I think washington was rather sensitive to the fact that he had no children of his own, and that would be a subject of pure speculation which hasnt prevented historians from speculating. The fact is he treated her children very much as if they were his own. It is interesting. By one estimate, she brought 20,000 pounds to their marriage, and he spent a good deal of that immediately sending away for orders for toys, for wax dolls for patsy, the daughter. And he spent quality time with them and, of course, lost both of them. It was a shattering experience. Patsy, who died, i believe, of epilepsy, one day at dinner in the dining room. And jackie, who had not participated in the revolution until the very end and joined his stepfathers staff, came down with, most people think typhus, or some sort of camp fever and died a few days later. Patricia host this is very common in the period. The average Life Expectancy would have been 50s or 60s. Patricia except you need to think of the fact that a large part of those in the mortality figures are Young Children who died before theyre 5 or 6. The death rate among Young Children and also women giving birth, who so frequently died in childbirth. Those figures are skewed. If you lived beyond 6 and if you survived childbirth, the chances of you living into your 70s were fine. Richard Washington Men lived beyond the 50s. Which is one more reason he was reluctant to take the presidency. He had a sense that he was living on borrowed time at 57. Host time for some host time for some questions from around the country. The first one is jennifer in south dakota. Whats your question . Caller i was wondering what marthas relationship was to general washingtons staff, people like Alexander Hamilton and maybe some of the younger politicians like monroe and maybe even madison, especially considering that she did lose her children. Patricia well, thats a great question, because from the time she first gave birth at 18, 19 she was a really wonderful mother. She doted on her children, grandchildren, nieces, and nephews. I have said that, during the war, with the young officers the young aides de camp, she was more or less like a house mother at a fraternity. She looked after these young men and she saw that they ate enough and that they had dry socks. She did all the important things and concerned herself with them in that way. And forever afterward, the young men of those days, remembered her as their mother, as their foster mother. Richard she also had a sense of humor. Alexander hamilton loved the ladies, and they returned his interest. At one point in the war this is before hamilton married Betsy Schuyler martha had an amorous tomkat tomcat that she named hamilton in tribute to the future secretary of the treasury. Host im going to move to another question. [laughter] this is from tom, of all things from bethesda, maryland. Caller there was a special relationship between George Washington and the marquis de lafayette. How did Martha Washington get along with the marquis the lafayette and his family . Patricia he was another of the young men that she became a mother to. When he came, he was although , the richest man in france, he was one of the most unhappy. He was escaping persecution by his inlaws and by the court and he came there as a young man. He was 18 years old when she finally met him. She saw him as another son. She treated him that way. He loved it. He saw a part of that as what america was like, where people could be made over and he could be made over. Richard he also was one of the many observers, one of the better observers who gives us a window on the relationship between the washingtons. He writes a letter. People ask why did martha spend every winter of the revolution with washington, and lafayette said it was simple. She loved her husband fondly. Madly. Host are next call comes from montpelier, Virginia Home of thomas match Thomas Jefferson. Caller i read about washington, a few months ago and at that , time he mentioned that the judge woman left because martha told her she was going to pass her on down to her daughter and that she trusted and liked martha, but didnt want to work for the daughter. Patricia thats actually her granddaughter. The daughter was many years dead by then. Martha had three granddaughters. And the oldest one, eliza, was a was fairly bad tempered and very capricious, and i do not think anyone would have wanted to work for her, much less belong to her. And certainly when she was told that eliza had requested her and that she was going to when they went home, that she would be going to live with eliza when she got married, she decided enough was enough and took off. Host the montpelier folks are [laughter] the montpelier folks are going to be yelling at me. [laughter] shame on me. Monticello was Thomas Jeffersons home, so we have to correct that. Richard to round out the onie story friends of hers who , basically smuggled her to portsmouth, new hampshire, and then there was this conundrum because mrs. Washington wanted her back and wanted the president to advertise for her return. It put washington in a very awkward situation. Host ann arbor, michigan, up next. Nancy, what is your question . Caller i am a rep im a public historian who likes to think about how women are portrayed at Historic Sites. I wondered what you thought about how Historic Sites deal with first ladies, in particular, Martha Washington. Do you think she is well represented . Are there things we can do to talk about what she did and how she helped her husband . Patricia i certainly think in philadelphia, for example it , would be good to see even more done about Martha Washington as the first lady there. But at mount vernon, they have done an incredible job. Mount vernon is the leader among all the Historical Houses in the nation. They have an actress who portrays Martha Washington very beautifully. And they really make clear how important she was, that she was not just a hostess. Host next up is shirley in tucson. Hi, shirley, youre on. Caller id like to ask a question about the custislee house in arlington. Host have you been to visit it . Caller pardon me . Host have you been to visit it . Caller oh, yes, several times. I grew up in the washington area, and i was just there, and i saw that it was being renovated. And i was just curious. I do not really remember why it was in the custis family. Host thanks very much. Patricia well, because marthas grandson, washington custis, who was adopted along with his sister, nelly, by the washingtons and lived with them throughout their lives, when he after the washingtons died and he was on his own he decided to build a beautiful mansion, which he did, and it was arlington. So this was the custis mansion. It in fact never belonged to robert lee. Robert married mary custis, his daughter, and cared for it and lived there when he wasnt out on the frontier someplace building buildings and all. But it passed from washington custis to his daughter, mary, to the lees son. Lee was more of the caretaker, but he was the most famous of them all, so his name is included. Richard if you want to humanize the washingtons, its a wonderful universal story about how george and martha agreed to disagree about George Washington parke custis, known as young wash or tub, who was, i think most people agree, spoiled royally by his grandmother. He was in and out of school, and there were these wonderful letters in which washington was pouring out the benefit of his lifes experience about how he would work all day long, its amazing how much you could get done, etc. , etc. , etc. Totally wasted on tub, who would go on to become famous for his connection to George Washington. Patricia when the new couple married, George Washington was in the process of building mount vernon. Host when the new couple married, George Washington was in the process of building Mount Vernon Patricia well, mount vernon existed as a fourroom farmhouse, but it was in the process of adding a second story. So then it was an eightroom house with an attic area at the top. Host doing that to bring his new wife there or patricia he paid for it himself. I think it was partly his pride. That he did not want to be marrying a rich woman and using her money to make his house. I think it was to show that he too, had a lot to offer. Host both of you have spent hundreds of hours at mount vernon. Is it fair to call it the centerpiece of the washingtons existence . Richard absolutely. Patricia definitely, of course. Richard yeah, it was the north star. The place they always wanted to return to. The place they were happiest. And yet, its remarkable not to jump ahead, but after the president died, maybe the greatest sacrifice of all that martha was asked to make, and yet the last ultimate she was willing to have his remains removed from mount vernon and moved to the new Capitol Building in washington, d. C. Fortunately, that never happened. Bureaucracy took over. Patricia shows how bad politics sometimes works out well. They got to arguing so they did not take him away. Host lets so you next some of the views of mount vernon when we visited with our cameras. Its clear that after martha arrives at mount vernon in april of 1759, theres a lot of management that she has to do. When she marries George Washington, she brings with her to mount vernon 12 house slaves, and that is really almost an unimaginable luxury. These are slaves who, for the most part, are not field labor are not producing crops, which is where your income is coming from. They are doing things like cooking, serving at tables cleaning the house, doing the , laundry, sewing. This is not productive labor, in the sense that its not producing income. So she brings those slaves with her. She brings Financial Resources to the marriage as well as her managerial skills. Makes mount vernon a Successful Operation and makes it possible for washington to be away for eight years, fighting a war. So the fact that washington has this support system that enabled him to volunteer his time and talents to run the revolution is clearly critical. There is a farm manager who, during most of the revolution is a distant cousin of George Washington. Later the farm manager is George Augustin washington, who is washingtons nephew. And he ends up marrying fannie bassett, who is Martha Washingtons niece. So that tells you something about the closeness of some of the family relationships. But it is clear from the correspondence that while they are at mount vernon with Martha Washington, she was a take charge woman. In terms of her interaction with the slaves, shes interacting with the cooks in the kitchen, the maids who are serving in the house. There are also slave women who are spinning, on a continual basis, to produce yarn. She is supervising what the gardeners are doing. Martha was a great lover of gardens and having cut flowers. She liked having a Kitchen Garden that she could go out and bring in vegetables for what theyre going to be able to serve at mount vernon. Shes the one whos really planning the menus. There are just a lot of levels that she is working with. So we know that it is a break it is a big operation. Really the center of her whole life. Host how pretty. If you visit mount vernon today and with years of documentary research, how close is it to recreating the life that george and Martha Washington experienced . Patricia nothing today could recreate the life of that time, because for one thing, they would have to take all the motorized vehicles away. They would have to have haystacks, manure piles, outdoor toilets. There was so much about the life that was so much more primitive than it is. But as close as you can today, its very good. As i said, its the leader in the Historical Houses. Host George Washingtons crops were what, and what kind of a businessman was he . Richard actually, that is one of the acts that aspects of his life that is least understood. For those who think of him as a complex conservative, they should take a look at his approach to agriculture. He had a great passion for it. He was a real experimental farmer. He realized, for example, that this which is not fertile soil to begin with is being exploited by tobacco. That tobacco really should be a crop of the past. He experimented with over 60 different crops to see what would work best. A very quick point i wanted to make was the apprenticeship that running mount vernon offered, if there was an ad for first lady in 1789, Martha Washingtons Prior Experience really qualified her, uniquely. And one of the things that she did if you go to mount vernon today, youll notice there are two, in effect, wings, that were added during the revolution, which, by the way, she oversaw the construction. Theres the dining room, which is a very public space. And then theres a very private wing that contains their bedroom and his study. One of the jobs she had they had 600 people a year, strangers, who showed up, just because they wanted to see the most famous man on earth. They were all welcome. They were all greeted. Most of them were fed, given a bed overnight. But even washington got sick of the demands. Hed disappear in the evening go to his study and work, leaving martha to converse with the visitors. Host Martha Washington and georges bedroom was one of the other videos we chose. Because there is so much to see their. Lets watch that now. Patricia ok. The room that we refer to and show off in the mansion at the washingtons bed chamber is a room that was part of the south wing of the mansion here at mount vernon that was started in 1775, right before George Washington left to participate in the continental congress, and then the revolutionary war. George washington does always refer to it as mrs. Washingtons chamber. And its clear that it was kind of the center her nerve center for mount vernon. So the sort of daily routine was that, when mrs. Washington got up, she typically spent time in that chamber doing her hour of spiritual meditation. Perhaps later in the day writing letters, talking with her cooks to plan menus for the day, giving assignments for what was to be done that day. When her grandchildren were young, we know she also used that room for teaching them, reading them stories, sewing in the afternoons. So you can really imagine how wonderful it would have been in that room. One the most notable pieces is the bed that is in that bed chamber. That is the bed on which George Washington died. But we also know from Martha Washingtons will that she had a personal role in acquiring that bed, which is a bit larger than the typical dimensions for an 18th century bed. So it seems perhaps that shes getting kind of a custommade bed for her quite tall husband. Another piece in the room that has a very close connection with Martha Washington is her desk. Although very little of the correspondence between george and Martha Washington has survived, because Martha Washington destroyed their private correspondence. It was in that desk that two of their letters were found that they had slipped behind one of the drawers. That desk is very special to us as kind of the preserver of that little bit of very personal correspondence. Its not just a place where she slept. I can just picture her, really sitting in her easy chair by the fire with her grandchildren around, and so we can really imagine how comfortable it must have been for Martha Washington. Host george and Martha Washingtons bedroom at mount vernon. One of the things thats mentioned is her morning meditations, which seemed to be a sacred time for her throughout her life. What do we know of what she did during that time . Patricia she was an episcopalian. Always. She was a member of the church of england, and after the revolution she became a member of the american episcopal church. She had several bibles. She read the bible. She also read the book of common prayer. She spent a lot of time also reading other books about the episcopal point of view. And she was a very, very deeply religious, but not judgmental woman. Host what about that video is important to tell people more of their room together and the life that they had . Richard well, the fact that she burned all their correspondence in some ways is a metaphor. Thats where they could be themselves. Thats where they could say to each other what they didnt say anywhere else. And i think one reason why she burned those letters is because that was the unvarnished George Washington. It wasnt simply the uniquely intimate relationship that existed between them. She was the only person on earth to whom washington could confess his doubts, his fears, his opinions of his colleagues. You name it. Host but this is the interesting thing about that that they both had a sense that they were creating an image larger than his lifetime. That they didnt want to be patricia she was very careful of his papers, as was he. They were always cap in a big trunk. Kept in a big trunk. When they seemed they might be in danger, the trunk was removed. Building his image, but a truthful image. Having a letters showing him as a military man and as a political man was important. But as far as she was concerned their private life was just that. That ladies did not go promenade in about, letting their husband s love letters be read. She had had not enough privacy in her life. Host for the contents of the letters hidden in the desk . Patricia the letters were fabulous, they were both from him to her in 1775 in philadelphia when he has just accepted command of the continental army, which does not exist yet. The nation doesnt exist yet, it is 1775. Without asking her. He is writing and saying, my dearest, i had to accept this as my honor required it. Please, dont be angry with me. He goes on and on about why it is important and why she needs to support him. And before he goes off to be the leader of the war, he makes time to go out and buy some of the nicest new muslin in richard i dont think anyone reading those letters would subscribe to the view that they were, the relationship was a business like one. Host next up and is gail. You are live on tv. You have a question . Caller i am reading a nice easy book called mount vernon love story, by mary higgins park. She said that no one ever called Martha Washington martha, she was always called patsy, as Lady Bird Johnson was never called claudia. I was just wondering. I just heard that you mentioned that in his letters to when he referred to her in his letter that it was just mentioned on the television that he did call her patsy. And i also wanted to mention that in the story that im reading about martha and George Washington that the house mount vernon was originally the home of his half brother, George Washingtons half brother that he lived in a smaller farm. I wondered if you would talk anything about his years as a surveyor, or if this is really about the years with martha as an adult. Host thanks very much. This is actually Martha Washingtons time, so we will not talk about georges career but how about the nickname patsy . Patricia patsy or pat was a nickname for martha in those days just like meg. No one was named patricia back then. Only patsys where mark were marthas. Host and the smaller farm that she mentioned . Patricia it was smaller because it was only 500 acres at that point. Washington was able to acquire more acreage with marthas money, but it was the farm house that his brother lived in was the fourroom farm house i was mentioning that he then added a second storey to. Caller i have a question regarding sally fairfax. Im wondering if you can clarify that relationship george had with her, which apparently continued until after the revolutionary war. Was she aware of that relationship and how did she honestly deal with that or was that something that just was not discussed . Host mr. Smith, you want to start . Patricia you disagree. Richard here is a classic example of where, unfortunately, mrs. Washington did her cause no good by burning all of those letters. In the late 1950s, two letters were discovered, which the then sort of reigning washington biographer James Thomas Flexner made a great deal out of. Some would say, perhaps, exaggerated their significance. Sally fairfax was the wife of George William fairfax, who was a neighbor and close friend. Some people describe him as washingtons best friend. They were at belvoir but its just river from mount vernon. Well, i think clearly, there was i would use the word infatuation. Sally was slightly older, very sophisticated to someone like george who wanted, as a young man, very much to belong, who wanted to be part of the colonial aristocracy, who wanted to advance in the british military. And so, someone like sally who was even then, i think unobtainable, nevertheless, held a special allure. Exactly what the nature of that relationship was is still being debated. You talked about George Washingtons integrity. I think it was something even then, i dont think the relationship went beyond a kind of love sick young man. But id like to hear your view. Patricia well, actually then we wont disagree. Theres no doubt when those two letters surfaced that you cant read them any other way. But that he was a love sick puppy. But they hardly make sense, when you read them sentence by sentence and try to punctuate them, he has just sort of going crazy because she has said something mean to him about not writing to her, and hes gone nuts. And you see how much he cares about her and how infatuated he is. I dont think i too dont think it went any further than that kind of infatuation because he did care too much about his friend. But, once he met martha and once they started to settle down i , think she had to have known, she was a smart woman. She could certainly when he , started talking about the elegant neighbors of belvoir she had to have picked up a special tone. But they became actually best friends, those couples visited all the time. Sally fairfax and her husband were there when patsy custis dropped dead after getting up from the dining room table and were at her funeral because it was in the mid summer and she had to be buried. So, they were very close. And then in 1773 as its becoming clear that a revolution is coming about, then the fairfaxes go back to england never to return. So theres no continuing relationship beyond friendship. Host we are going to take a quick question from mary whos watching in a place, i presumed, is named after the fairfaxs family, fairfax, virginia. Caller mary was an ancestor, her younger brother, bartholomew, was a great, great, great uncle of mine. And i was also born in New Kent County, virginia. And i had a couple of questions pertaining to marthas younger life. I had always heard growing up that she had met George Washington at poplar grove which was the plantation property next door to the white house. And that he had been the guest of the chamberlains there for dinner and not knowing that martha was invited also. And that was where they met. The other question i have is, i understood that she attended somewhat sayingint peters at the School Church there in New Kent County which was a very short distance from the white house. Host to clarify, when we reference the white house, its not the white house that we know. Patricia right. White house is the plantation on the pamunkey river, where Daniel Custis is the lord and master there. Yes, st. Peters was their church. There are different stories about how they met. Some people have said that she and george had known each other for a long time. I dont think theres much really much belief in that because when you do run the numbers of when he was out in the field fighting and when she could have been in williamsburg if they had met, it didnt amount to very much. The whole chamberlain story really comes from wash custis who likes to write about everything as a grand oldfashioned romance. And the chamberlains themselves believed it. I dont believe it, but certainly there is some evidence for it for those who do. Host time to move onto the revolutionary war 1776, 1783 George Washington pressed into service as the leader of the continental army. Martha washington leaves mt. Vernon to spend time with him, how many times, how frequently was she on the battlefield with pam . Patricia she goes every winter to join him in the camp. And to make a home, not just for him, but for all of the young officers who are on his staff, and to encourage other officers to bring their wives and daughters to come and visit and make it a social time. Out of the actual eight years of the revolution, she spends overall, five years. Host we have a video from one of those encampments, valley forge in the pennsylvania [video clip] when Martha Washington came to valley forge on the 5th of february of 1778. She arrives here, according to general nathanael green, in the evening. It takes her 10 days to travel here to valley forge from mount vernon. We know too that the weather what the weather was like while she was traveling which was not always so pleasant, because it started out snowing when she left from the mount vernon area. And then, the winds picked up and then it started to rain, it became very, very muddy. And when she finally arrived here on february the 5th, that was actually quite pleasant and the weather was 35. But for a lot of the time, she was traveling through mud in her carriage with her slaves and servants with her. And this was a difficult journey. You know, its very interesting to look at the primary documentation which are the letters and journals and diaries at the time to see what martha did do at valley forge. And i think its a little surprising and it really puts a different complexion, i think, on the entire valley forge encampment. I think number one, of course, was to be with general washington. They had a very nice relationship. If she was going to see him, she would have to come to him. We also know that when she comes here to valley forge, she probably takes over the housekeeping duties, which was very much what she was used to of course, at mount vernon. We also know that she entertained. We know that elizabeth drinker came to valley forge, she came on the 6th of april. She came with several of her friends. So we know that mrs. Washington entertained and talked to visitors when they came to valley forge when general washington was not able to do that. We also know and this, i think is when it starts to get very interesting. She served elegant dinners here at valley forge. Now, most people would never put the word elegant together with the word valley forge. This is probably where Martha Washington dined for a while until the log hut built for dining which she said, made our conditions much more tolerable than they were at first, thats a quote from her, was built right back near the kitchen. So you can imagine Martha Washington here with some of the officers, general washington perhaps some of the people from the area who might have been passing through, eating dinner here which was served in the afternoon, maybe 2 00 or 3 00. The food, by the way, that they ate here was really very different from what soldiers were eating. We know, for example, that there were 2,000 eggs brought into s valley forge that they ate during the encampment period, a sixmonth period, of course, for the valley forge encampment. We know that there were brought in 750 pounds of butter. And we know that at least 1,600 pounds of veal were brought into camp. These are some of the things that Martha Washington would be eating here as she was dining with people. Conversations kind of interesting to think about, what would Martha Washington and the other people have been talking about . We dont really know, of course. But when elizabeth drinker came from philadelphia, very likely the conversation at that point would have been what were conditions like in philadelphia. The british, of course, were in philadelphia and general washington would have been very interested to think about what that conditions were at that time. And martha would have been part of that conversation and listening to what was happening, talking to philadelphia, talking to ladies from philadelphia which she very much would have enjoyed. We know too that Martha Washington went to several Worship Services here at camp. We know that on may the 6th, theres a wonderful celebration called the feu de joie celebrating the french alliance. Martha washington is there and receives in the center of a large tent. And whereas, thousands of people, officers, the wives, go through and least general dekalb says thousands of them are entertained and served refreshments with Martha Washington and general George Washington. So those were some of the things that martha is doing here at valley forge. Host and we are back talking about Martha Washington with pat brady and Richard Norton smith. I have a tweet here from a viewer named Jennifer Sherman who writes amazing how much time Martha Washington spent with her husband on the front lines. And thats on the front lines is what i wanted to start with. It sounds a bit gentile that existence we were just hearing about in valley forge. But 2,500 soldiers died in that encampment in that winter. Richard it wasnt viewed as gentile by her contemporaries. And, indeed, one of the things that fostered a bond, an emotional bond between mrs. Washington and what would be the American People was the perception that she had sacrificed every bit as much as her husband during the war. This is another chapter in her training in a sense for being first lady. He was in effect for eight years an executive, the closest thing that the country had. And she was a first lady of sorts. One very touching story. They had one room on the second floor of potts house at valley forge. And they had an hour every morning that was sacred. One hour when they were absolutely not to be disturbed. And wouldnt you have loved to be a fly on most of those conversations, because undoubtedly, again, washington unloaded a lot. Patricia he had so many worries, would they possibly win. But what she did and it wasnt just entertaining the americans, she was entertaining officers from france, from britain, from not britain from germany. , and she was able to charm them, one particular french officer said, it was so wonderful to be there with her drinking tea, singing and just chatting. And at the end of the evening one would go home feeling better. Can you imagine feeling better at valley forge, she had charm beyond belief. Host well, its also important to know that she had an official role acting as his private assistant to his private secretary transcribing documents. Patricia that didnt happen often. That was a rare occasion really. Host but it gave her a glimpse of what his formal job would have been like. What else from those years, long years were important in her development as first lady . Patricia you know, one thing that i think is really important and it sounds weird, is the change in her sewing habits, you know, all american women sewed. Welltodo women sewed embroidery, and tapestry and fancy work. When she was there and the local ladies came to call, she was not doing fancy work. She had the knitting needles out. And she was knitting socks for the soldiers. Now, these were infantry men. And they marched on those feet and they got big holes in their socks. And she must have knitted thousands of socks and encouraged others too, as well as raising the money to make linen shirts, which served as uniform shirts for them. So she really physically in terms of her work and emotionally in terms of her leadership helped support the troops themselves. Richard there is a wonderful story where there were a group of women who were who knew they were going to be calling upon a generals lady and respected expected a grand figure. To their astonishment, they found her knitting and its said, and wearing a speckled apron. So she, clearly, was not someone to stand on her position or on her title. Host back to phone calls. Elizabeth in washington, d. C. Caller this series is great, this panel is fantastic. My question is about Martha Washingtons grandchildren. Youve mentioned nelly and washy and, of course, eliza. Could you talk a little bit about Martha Custis peter because i understand that the two letters found in the desk mentioned earlier were found by that granddaughter, at least thats the story. But could you talk a little bit about Martha Custis peter and her relationship with her grandmother. Patricia there were four children, they were eliza, martha, known as patty, then nelly, then wash. And when the adoption happened when the washingtons adopted two of the grandchildren, they took the two youngest, they took nelly and wash. And the other, the two elder girls lived with their mother and their stepfather. And then, eventually, lots of half brothers and sisters. So the two elder girls were spent a lot of time with the washingtons, who were very friendly with them, but they werent very loving with them, that they werent the same as the adopted children. Patty got married very young apparently for love. And her husband, thomas peter, was a welltodo man in georgetown and they built a beautiful house, tudor place which is opened to the public and its an incredibly gorgeous place. And, in fact, at the sale after marthas death, she bought this desk. And when she took it home, she found those wonderful letters. And another reminder from marsha johnson, and weve said this a few times, but she tweets, Martha Washington outlived her four children. Pretty unthinkable for many people today, but not so uncommon during this period of our history. Call is Edward Nelson county, virginia. Caller i am originally from new windsor, new york. And newburgh where george, the general stayed at the hasbrouck house, the famous room with seven doors and one window. I was wondering if martha was there with him and also if she at the cantonment there in vails gate, the last encampment when they offered him the kingship. Could you please just expound on that, please . Thank you. Patricia she was definitely at newburgh. She spent a lot of time at newburgh because, of course, the war had pretty much worn down. And it was just a case of waiting for all the peace treaties to be ratified and all. As for the latter part, was she . I dont think she was. Richard that defining moment in American History, i dont think she was there for that. Host we have about 12 minutes more left in this. And we said when we started 90 minutes is going to go by so quickly and, in fact, it is. And we started out talking about the important white house years. Our last segment is going to be on life after the presidency when the washingtons returned to mount vernon. But was this also precedent setting what postpresidencies would be like. Richard he became, not only the first president , but the first expresident. And, of course, she shared in that. Host and, of course, she shared in that. And did they think about that a lot from what you know . Richard no, i think they were just glad to be home. Host was there any consideration of a third term . Richard no. And indeed, washington had wanted very much to leave after his first term. It would allow himself to be persuaded against his instincts that it was his patriotic duty. And i think its safe to say martha was not happy. I mean, martha wasnt particularly happy that he took the first term. She recognized that it was unavoidable and her life too had become caught up in that of her country. I think im not sure she would have divorced him if there had been a third term. But she, you know, a third term was not in the cards from either one of their standpoint. Host now, they were in their mid 60s when they came back to mount vernon. And you remind us that mid 60s and this time period was patricia elderly. He had ailments that almost killed him during the time that he was president. And she was terrified that the presidency would literally kill him. When you think about every president we know and you look at the pictures of when they start and eight years later, theyre more than eight years older for sure. Its a very aging kind of a job. Host but we look at the political battles were facing today over immigration and over the size of the federal debt. What were the intensity of the political battles of this timeframe . Richard remember, washingtons success as president depended on his persuading everyone that he was not a political partisan. He didnt call it a federalist government, he called it a national government. He went out of his way to include all of the sections of the country. Hamilton and jefferson had their cockfight in the cabinet, much to his displeasure. He kept those people around him long after they wanted to leave. He made that sacrifice. He was willing to see himself pilloried in the press as a dupe of king george and someone who would betray the revolution. And martha had to suffer all of this and, in effect, vicariously. Its always been harder and in some ways for a first lady or a president ial child to put up with the criticism then than for the president , who accepts it as part of the job. Host but youve told us shes not a political. So she had to have been involved. Patricia she was. And she took madison, jefferson into hatred. She hated Thomas Jefferson once he started his newspaper campaigns against washington. And the reason he brought washington into it, of course, was to defeat hamilton. And he said, oh, its a shame how much the president suffers from these sorts of attacks, but its necessary to build our party. And she never forgave it, never. He he never realized that she was smart enough to see what he was doing. But she thought he was horrible and the fact that he was elected president was shocking. He made the mistake of underestimating Martha Washington. Patricia very much. Richard the flip side of that is that martha grew even closer personally and finally politically to the adamses. And she was certainly glad that it was john adams and not Thomas Jefferson who won the presidency to succeed her husband. Host and, of course, next week on first ladies, we will delve in for 90 minutes to the life of the very interesting abigail adams. And this does helps to set the stage for that. Host how many years postpresidency did they live at mount vernon . Well, he lived two years and then she lived two and a half beyond that. And what was that time like, their last two years together as a couple. Oh, they had a great time. You know, the house, again, it sort of broken down and things in the fields werent being done the way he wanted them to be. Experimenting with a million crops and dealing with the gristmill and the with the distillery and all of the things that he pioneered with. She had to reorganize the housekeeping. But whats so interesting, i think, is that mount vernon becomes the symbol of the nation after they retire. There is no white house yet, you know, thats not built. Washington d. C is building up, but it doesnt really exist. When foreigners and when important visitors come, who what do they want to see . Theres no building worth seeing in d. C. They want to see mount vernon, and they want to see washington. And after washington dies, they want to see Martha Washington and talk to her about what it was like. They see her as the living remnant of that history that they continue to have their posts until they die, both of them. Richard and the other thing of course remember, the defining act that he took in the last summer of his life when he sat down and wrote a will in the course of which he identified himself as George Washington, a citizen of the United States not virginia. But even more important in which he made provisions to free those slaves that he could upon the death of martha. And that, presumably, is something that he had to have consulted her about, although i dont think we have any primary evidence to that thing. Host after George Washington died, martha left that bedroom s that we just showed you and moved to a garret as its called in the mansion. Lets see what that looks like today. George washington does die very suddenly. So it must have been a great shock, martha was very bereaved. And she does retreat, she does not use their shared bedchamber after his death. She moves to the garret bedchamber on the third floor. And it is furnished now with the actual bed that we believe came to the washingtons in 1750s from london. And it is hung with hanging based on a little fragment that was preserved in a 19th century valentine written by marthas granddaughter, nelly. And that valentine says that this is fabric from the curtains that hung in the room in which mrs. Washington died here at mount vernon. That fabric and that little scrap of valentine exactly matches the description of the hangings that came with this bed that the washingtons or that George Washington got from london in the 1750s. So it points to this very romantic tale that after George Washingtons death, Martha Washington moves upstairs, but surrounds herself with things from the very earliest days of their marriage. So i think it really was a place of refuge for her and it was a place where, you know, that the house continued to be busy with servants, with the slaves, with people visiting. So its a place that she could really retreat to and be quiet and contemplate and be kind of removed from that hustle and bustle of daily life. Patricia well, when washington died, she said, its over, my life is just waiting now. And she really and truly did not want to be in that room where they had been so happy. Host did she involve herself people wanted to come see her, did she stay involved in any of the politics of the day . Richard not the politics of the day, she became, if anything, i think even more secluded certainly emotionally secluded. Her devotions became, perhaps, even more central to her day. Every day, she would walk down the path to the tomb, whats called the old tomb, which you can see today and would pray. And, basically, pats right, she was literally counting the days until she could be reunited with the love of her life. And, of course, when you factor in her religious convictions when you factor. Host time for a quick final question from julie in alexandria, virginia, right up the road from mount vernon and George Washingtons port city. George washington and george mason were very good friends. George mason had two wives. Ann she passed away and then sarah. I was wondering what the relationship was between Martha Washington and either of george masons wives. Host thank you. Patricia they were friendly neighbors. Richard as far as i know, they never became intimate friends. And, in fact, that friendship sadly was a political casualty. Right. George mason and George Washington who had been friends and collaborators in the period leading up to the revolution. But after the Constitutional Convention which, of course, washington sanctioned and mason refused to sign, it really spelled in many ways and end to their friendship. Host well, on twitter, someone said as, george and Martha Washington quite the power couple. So, as we close out here just kind of bringing us full circle, what are the important things for people to know about the influence of Martha Washington . Patricia i think its important to know how smart and powerful she was, and how dependent he was on her. His achievements were his achievements. But having her there with him made them much more possible. Richard and i think thats true. I think she defines influence in a way that perhaps contemporary americans might have difficulty understanding. But the fact of the matter is she was the most influential person on the face of the earth with the president of the United States. Host this is Richard Norton smiths biography of George Washington, patriarch Still Available if youd like to learn more about the life of our first president. And weve been talking a lot about pat bradys book Martha Washington with its striking portrait of the young martha on the cover. And it is also widely available for people who would like to know more. Our partners for this entire series is the White House Historical association. And theyve been helping us with lots of documentary evidence and with our Background Materials we get ready for the series. And we have to say thanks to them as we finish up this first program. And we also have a group of academic advisers of which mr. Smith is one, youll see many of them as the program progresses. And we thank them for their help in getting this series to air for us. We have a robust website with lots of video. So if weve whetted your appetite and youd like to learn more, cspan. Org firstladies. Thanks for being with us tonight. With live coverage of the u. S. House unseat then and the senate on cspan 2, here on cspan three, we complement by coverage showing you relevant hearings. On the weekend, cspan 3 is home to American History tv. American artifacts towards museums tours museums. Lectures in history with top professors. Our new series real america, features footage from the 60s and 70s. Cspan 3, funded by your local cable or satellite provider. Each week, American History tvs reel america bring archival films that help to tell history. Margaret chase main smith announcer president ial campaign. Some parts of this 18 minute speech are missing from this archival film. [applause] margaret i am sorry to disappoint it to you, but this is the best i had on monday morning. [laughter] i always enjoy being with the members of the National Womens press club, even when you give