you taught the youngest and more vulnerable among us. you have been a school administrator. have been a district superintendent. you have been commissioner of education. now you sit here as the secretary of education. your career has been stellar. you have served our kids admirably. you are one of the only state leaders to open schools safely. i want to thank you for that. even prior to the full american rescue plan you open schools safely. thank you for your stellar service and stellar career. i just want to pension that. mr. secretary i wanted to ask a question about gun reform. the democrats have passed, since gun reform in the house over many years. gun reforme continues to be advised in the senate. could you speak briefly on gun reforms which will keep assault rifles out of the hands who are most dangerous. how does that help decrease the amount of mass shootings and keep children alive in our schools across the country. thank you for the remarks earlier. chair scott: we should be the safest country in the world. in order to protect our students there is no easy answer. we need to work together on it. a recent poll found that over 80% of the vote in our country is some level of a red flag provision. in 1% of americans -- 81% of americans support background checks. both sides agree that common sense actions are needed now. we are becoming desensitized. as of the beginning, we cannot. we need to do better. >> 100%. as a formal educator myself, i know you are grieving today for the 21 lives that were lost in texas the other day. i know you still grieve for what happened in sandy hook. you grieved on columbine and virginia tech, the 3600 56 school shootings that have happened since sandy hook. i want to thank you for your service. i have another question about student debt. as you know, american borrowers across the country hold more than 1.7 trillion in student debt. i speak with constituents in my district. it is our young people, elders, are here still trying to pay off student debt. they paid back far more than they ever borrowed because of compounding interest. this that needs to be canceled. it is predatory and it is crushing. looking forward, we absolutely need to have free public housing, free community college in my opinion. we also need to start by canceling student debt which is profited off of americans far too long. two quick questions. i would like to get more clarity on the student debt. how much of the 1.7 trillion is made up of the principal balance ? how much is accrued interest? the second question, how many people are paying more than they originally borrowed but still have a student debt balance because of interest. chair. scott: thank you for the question. we have to make sure. we have to make sure we are not there in five years. those two questions are specific. i do not want to guess right now a number. i will follow up on those questions. i think your point is well-made. there are people who are not just paying interest. it is the principal. that is on the separable. we have to do better with that . i agree with you 200%. >> thank. i yield back. >> next we will hear from the gentleman in wisconsin, mr. fitzgerald. >> thank you mr. secretary for being with us. i think the last time we visited has been, some discussion on the student loan issue. i kind of wanted to go back to that. there's a couple of things. i think i am here for my constituents on that front. i am not sure of the department has gathered data on. i just listened. what i'm hearing is, the one thing that is out there that is probably not being addressed is, it is kind of a nuance. it is the loans. it appears that many families in america has have this informal arrangement between the parent and the student. where the student approaches the parent and says, is there anyway you can pay off the debt on this tuition bill. then informally says do not worry about mom, or dad, when it comes down to it, i will make the payments myself. it is kind of this informal arrangement. i have no idea if you have any numbers on that. or if that is even tracked. who is actually willing to check every month to pay off some of these loans? chair scott: thank you for the question. as a parent who is now thinking about that, my own son, i recognize that many parents throughout the country are wondering. i am sure that you are as well. i do not have specific information on that. i will not want to dare to make a statement without having someone from a higher team discuss. if the parent is writing the check, what happens if the student qualifies for certain loan forgiveness. at think it is a very valid question. i want to make sure give you the right information. >> that leads to the second part of my question. as you do the expanded esl f, and absolutely would be something that i would hope that the department would somehow be able to consider if there is some type of final calculation. that is without even making any judgments on how much forgiveness should there be art should there be forgiveness at all. it is not news to you i do not think. the only thing i heard quite a bit when you talk about this issue is people are frustrated by the interest rate. and if there was some way of bringing the interest rate down. i understand that is an act of congress. certainly, that would have just a dramatic impact on the overall situation nationwide. as some forgiveness would be a part of eslf. let me shift gears real quick appeared as a member of the small business committee, one of the things we are reminded of all the time is ppp loans. it is determined to be successful. ppp loans saved many small businesses throughout the nation. the same part i would say is, we are hearing from districts about some of the covid relief funds and whether it was a part of the cares act. how are you guys doing on tracking that and making sure that districts -- you know because you hear these stories out there that the money was misspent or misallocated. i know in number of small businesses, we are having a hard time checking how the funds were spent. then the sba loans that have been made, some of those are a result of fraud and abuse is a. significant. but if why would ask other departments on tracking some of those funds. >> thank you. i remember the commissioner having conversation about ppp and how to make sure it is being used in the investigation. but that experience, we wanted to make sure that we are putting in checks and balances. we have a robust system. every district has to submit a plan publicly. we have quarterly monitoring reviews. we created a program called arp path. it is not only accountability on us, but more important to parents of students in the community. we do annual reporting. we are working closely with the inspector general and auditors to make sure they have all of the information they need as they do their investigation as well. >> thank you. i yield back. chaair.scott: chairman from wisconsin. >> thank you, mr. chair. i also want to thank you to representative fitzgerald. they way he asked questions was great. it was not open mic night. hey, thank you. you did wisconsin proud. i just wanted to point that out. i know a few people have said they have no words for what happened in texas. i do. these institutions have been afraid of the gun manufacturers in the nra that are killing our kids that we are supposed to protect in our schools. i am more outraged. thank you for that. i want to ask you if i can get to two areas. we had a special hearing yesterday talking about teacher shortages. i believe in your opening remark he said 150 million that might go to attracting teachers. we had great suggestions. community schools to provide services to teach grants. could you give us a little bit of a deep dive of what you are doing? in wisconsin we had a significant drop off of school education post some actions that happen in the legislature. which has been one of the most attractive districts for people, sometimes they are getting two or three applications. we got a little problem here. districts would love to hear what you're doing. >> thank you for acknowledging that. we really need to honor legislators and making sure we are listening to them. teacher salary, working conditions, teacher's voice does matter. that is what is going to bring teachers into the profession. i am really proud that the budget proposal includes the $50 million to improve teacher retention. i really want to see because -- . to increase the diversity in the teacher profession. we want to make sure all students benefit when they are instructed by teachers from different backgrounds. it includes additional teachers and homeless students. i am really proud of this proposal and commitment. thank you. >> just from respect from personal experience, whatever we can do to lift up the profession is needed right now. the other issue, the pell grant these. fees. if were talking about that our tuition was $500 a semester. it is not $500 anymore. i came from a low income family so i had a pell grant. i worked throughout. i never took a spring break because i had to work so i could pay from school. i think the increase in college is really significant. can you talk about that as a goal that i know many of us is trying to get to which is a doubling pell speared >> we know college affordability is a runaway train. we are trying to put brakes on that. to make sure that there is a great return investment. i am thankful we have partners in the high grad filled who are working with us. that is really good. pell is the best opportunity to make education accessible to most students. you're absolutely right. in 1979, pell was 80% of the public institution. today that number is 30%. it was 100% in community colleges. today it is at 52%. it is not enough. we are thankful that we are able to look at pell as the equalizer. we strongly encourage support from pal. ell. it is really building the plane ying field. it is really not one without the other. >> thank you. >> thank you very much. thank you secretary cardona. we have spoken a couple of times about the case. mr. chairman? >> no objection. [inaudible] there has been an uptick. how is this not education? is it ok for a university? to engage applicants as a individual? . >> thank you for that. we are firmly in support of providing opportunities and fighting against this termination. i know we have a staff looking into that specific issue. i will be happy to have my staff follow up with where we are on that. and the investigation we have. >> how would he score me on my likability and traits if you will not give me a list where you have the answers in? >> i understand the line of questioning and i understand why you're asking it. i will have my staff look into it. i do appreciate your advocacy. the new gray if students have been -- do you agree if students would have been scored on personality traits? >> no. it should be very clear how the decisions are being made. that is important. those are decisions that have to be looked at 21 parents are deciding schools. -- at two when parents are deciding schools. why are your intentions to limit trade by proposing --. >> we do support high-quality schools, neighborhood schools, charter schools that are serving children. i said this before. i see great examples of them, i highlighted great examples of them. i do believe the proposals are reasonable. we want to make sure they are across the board, not just with public charters but all schools. we know that in many places, our charter schools are places of innovation. we would encourage connection between our charter schools and neighborhood schools. it is not a requirement. we are listening to the feedback we have and we are taking that in to account when we move forward. >> i yield back my time. you can ask your question are get a response in the next couple of seconds. >> i will yield back. >> thank you. >> mr. chairman. kenny hear me ok? -- can you hear me ok. k? i want to ask the secretary a question about -- but it's going to be provided for -- i know our efforts are to make students proficient in english as quickly as possible. but if they want to be competitive, we must also allow bilingual and -- allow bilingual . i am wondering what steps are you making to get there? >> i agree. the resource -- research shows when students are bilingual they have more opportunities in the learning increases. we have the proposal of $1 billion request for fiscal year 2023. actually it could be more. looking at language is a asset is critical. if we are going to be competitive internationally, being bilingual is a starting point. in other countries students are multilingual, bilingual. >> my last question. to complete and accurate data for title i for the flint recipients? >> thank you. we are working closely to make sure we are engaging with our stakeholders. our recipients of grants. we will continue to do that moving forward. i will follow-up with your office if there is any other questions. oversight of the funds is critical. >> thank you you, mr. chairman. thank you, mr. secretary. >> gentlemen, yield back? gentlemen yields back. the other gentleman that we have, mr. jacobs. >> thank you for being here to talk about the important issues for our children throughout the united states. i wanted to ask a couple of questions. 4307 of the elementary secretary education that wasn't reported into the parliament, teachers and other individuals involved, the operation of charter schools. we are in the charter school community and i was taught to identify any members of the community who have consulted this rule change. could you tell me, how might the process comply to the 4307? which specific individuals or we have reached out to? >> thank you for the question. we recognize there is some concerns about the proposal from some of the charter communities. we can ensure you that the process and taken feedback and comments. it was the open commentary that winter our proposals. because i do not have the specific information with me, i will have our team follow through and who we have received comments from. >> thank you. in regards to the rule itself, one of the proposals in that rule, the fact that we give the yield power, it overturns traditional public school districts that are requiring a memorandum in with understanding. i can tell you that the public school system works with us. i do not think they would choose to if they have to. they are very comfortable being a monopoly. i think this is really tripping hand to the traditional school district and trying to provide children and families who are desperate for high-quality. it was a reasonable proposal. i just beg the differ that it is not reasonable. it backs away my mind in crushing innovation of charter schools. >> i would like to comment on that. is that ok? i appreciate your perspective. that is number one. i think there is a lot of misinformation out there. that is why it is so important to communicate that these were proposals, they are not rules yet. i hear what you are saying. i understand. some community schools, some are not. maybe it is why the partnership will not happen. they be the school will not want to. we do not want to hold that against our charters. it was the encouragement. again, these are proposals we have completed. >> i do believe the challenge in innovation that came out in the charter school movement is actually improved at the buffalo schools. we have collaborated appeared a sign on and requirement that there is no vacancies in the public school systems. anyway, thank you for your time. i yield back. >> thank you. i agree with you on your last point. >> i recognize myself for five minutes. mr. secretary, we had a suggestion that democrats support the defund the police. it just for the record, i would like to point out that the i am not aware of any democrats who support define the police. a handful of members apparently do support that. the suggestion with democrats supporting defund the police is not accurate. let me ask you a question on why the elementary school, school resource officers were assigned to rob elementary. are you aware? >> there are reports of whether or not officers were present. the evidence i seen from the school resources officers are, whether the value they have could be provided by counselors. if you could provide for the record, a study that shows the effectiveness of school officers , i would like to see it. the other is, there's a little uncertainty in vouchers and private school charters. did you say whether or not you support private school vouchers or private charters? >> thank you for this opportunity. without question, as a parent, -- for example, technical high school. those were public high school options i had. i do not support the federal dollars for public school programs. the only way a parent would want to choose a neighborhood school. i do believe choices within the public school options are healthy for families. >> thank you. are you aware of the school board members? >> i am not aware of any threats to the school board members. i have seen examples of that over the last year. >> can you say what your budget does for technical education? >> i can do so. i will talk about the budget proposal, which is a $8 million increase. this has to be a big part of how we reimage schools. career technical education has often been pushed aside. it has a robust mentality. we need to change the culture and create a better pathway of our school. this is a bipartisan issue. every state that i have visited is working on it. we want to make sure that states have access to great programs, funding to make sure that the connections would be -- employers are there and we can support good career technical education in our schools. >> can we say a word about how important it is for states and districts to collect data so we can know which students to help and how we can deal with these gaps? >> data collection after the pandemic is important. we know everyone was affected by the pandemic, but not everyone was affected equally. in order for us to utilize the resources, we have to know which students were impacted the greatest. we need to make sure we are addressing the inequities that were made worse during the pandemic. not only student outcomes and achievement, but also their ability to learn from are they coming to school, do they have any other issues at home, are they in need of support additionally from academic. >> that data is required under the -- what are you doing to deal with the fact that the public schools now are segregated now as they were in the 1960's? >> where promoting and supporting programs that are aimed at removing those racial barriers between schools, promoting cro-magnet programs. we are going to continue to do that. we recognize that we work from our stakeholders who are not education stakeholders. students that are invested in a diverse community. it is really important that we promote that. thank you. my time is expired. >> materials must address the subject matter of the hearing. please submit materials by emailing submissions. i want to thank mr. secretary for participating. >> mr. chairman, do you have closing statements? >> yes. i want to thank the secretary for participation today. we ask that you please respond to those questions in writing. the record will be held for 14 days in order to receive responses. all discussions of the hearing must be cemented to the majority hearing staff within seven days -- submitted to the majority hearing staff within seven days. i now recognize the ranking member for the closing statement. >> thank you, mr. chair. i appreciate the secretary being here today. i appreciated his comments about organizing the schools to a clear path. he and i have spoken several times about his background. the fact that he has a technical background gives him great background for what he has done, what he could do as the secretary. i appreciate that very much. if we are going to reimagine schools that way, i think there is some comfort to parents. if your reimagining schools in other ways come i think that is a great concern. one way i am concerned about the possibility of reimagining schools, is what might happen to title ix. we did not talk much about title ix appeared ethic mr. secretary, you know thi -- title ix. i know mr. secretary. medical procedures without any type of parental agreement. that is one of the ways you can reimagine schools and what the schools are doing. i'm going to ask you to commit. ask you to commit on the committee on any proposal that you put forward on title ix to reassure us that this is not one of the ways you're going to be reimagining the schools. mr. secretary. i was very interested in the way you talk about -- talked about having honesty and transparency coming from colleges and universities and from charter schools. you have asked us work with you. mr. secretary, we want that honesty and transparency from the department and accountability. but what we see happening, is that the department is pushing through a shifting of responsibility from the person who took out the loan for college to hard-working taxpayer who did not even get an advantage of even attempting to get a degree. it is a good question about who you think should be paying for those college debts. we never got an answer from you. the term forgiveness is just a just pushing off from the person who has seen the debt to taxpayers appeare that is what -- taxpayers. let's call a spade a spade here. forgiveness means you do not pay back a loan. the government forgives the loan. let's be a supporter of accountability and transparency everywhere. not just for certain segments of education, but for all segments of education. most importantly, we need transparency and accountability from the department of education. we are not getting that right now. we are having to turn to agencies to get information you already have in your possession. he refused to give us. -- but you refuse to give us . i think you have the ability of being -- the secretary of anyone in the position. however, i do not think you are living up to the potential. in may be you do not have the authority to do what you need to do. you are in the position. you should be held accountable for providing the information from the people who report to you. we want to work with you mr. secretary, i told you that from the very beginning. i cannot work with somebody who hides what it is. i look to see the issue of truths and silence. i do not know where this quote came from. i will find it. i am not big on sources. the name of the person is nash. the truth is a place but silen ce is a lie. we cannot trust we are getting the information that we should be getting in our role in oversight. when we get silence back, our assumption is that we are not giving information because that is something you are hiding. we need that feeling. give us the information that you have, so that we do not believe that silence means there is a lie or something you want to hide. that should not happen in our government. the public has been more distrustful of our government. it is not healthy for the public. we want you to help us keep that distrust from occurring. thank you, mr. chairman for allowing me to make the statements. i look forward to getting the information from the secretary. god bless you. >> i want to thank you again mr. secretary for being with us today. we reflected on the administrations work to expand access to high-quality education . the department of education has helped reopen schools to in person learning safely. it helped address disparity and it to ensure our student loan program can deliver. department of education has taken the right steps to get us on the right track. there is a lot more that need to be done in the future. mr. secretary, i look forward to welcoming you as we deliver on the reform of education and ensure every student in america can reach the potential. thank you for your time. once again, we look forward to working with you. 2022 to issue a ruling. >> we will hear arguments this morning 21429 oklahoma versus