Before he gets into the questionandanswer, once again around of applause for mr. Mcculloch. [applause] i am going to have to get a Plastic Surgeon to write the smile off my face to do this. Before we get into our q and a, two quick stories. One is about to do Research View go to historic sites,. Residential libraries, when i was visiting the truman president ial library many years ago all the staff there came up and would say to me and it was unsolicited, a lot of the art do you know so and so was here . The mesa to me, you know who our favorite is . David mccullough. Given the color is here and he was the nicest, he said this to me, he was appreciative and they went on and on. Im enjoying all these stories. So what i did that night before it came in the next day to finish my research i bought donuts for the whole staff because i figured they might Say Something about me. [laughter] not the same breath as David Mccullough. I think we would all agree, its without question that David Mccullough is the most celebrated, revered historian of our time. As a national treasure. [applause] he is a national treasure, not only the president ial medal of freedom and multiple pulitzers, National Book of burdensome ordinance, too many warts to announce, but also the voice which was alluded to earlier. Ive always loved mr. Because place, narrating the american experience, ken burns wonderful documentary on the civil war, reading his books and other things. On that note, something i wanted to say to him but i thought i would share publicly. When i grow up, Jeff Cousteau was my hero. I always wanted to be a marine biologist, and almost became a marine biologist. I remember one of the lines that was said. The town and used to have it on my office door at university. Speak, itan could would have a french accent. Thats what they said to cousteau. Fairest felt that whatever ago twitter battlefield or present a home or historic sites, when it talks to me it sounds like David Mccullough. History sounds like David Mccullough. [applause] lets start our question and answer, i went to discharge her first speaker pulled me aside and said you have to ask David Mccullough the following question. Heres the question, he would like to know if youve mr. Macola would like to tell the audience, is there a secret love affair with Abigail Adams who are willing to admit to . [laughter] id who is even talking to who has even talking to he been talking to . [laughter] i feel strongly forward to bring the light touch to let, bring recognition, people who deserve that now that did not get it at the time or have not gotten it, but im need that is important. Its one of the reasons i wanted to read about harry truman. I thought he was vastly underrated, did not get enough credit for how much he did, took a great deal of courage. I felt the same way about john adams. I felt the same way but emily rosalie, the builder of the brooklyn bridge. In the bends and was put out of commission, early in the project, she took over and never got sufficient credit. She was a brilliant, brave, and impressive person. I focus same way about catherine , the wright brothers. Not think they wouldve succeeded with the whole innovation had it not been for her. Withame of course innumerable quantities of evidence. Its the vote out to be recognizing rib women and it is long overdue. [applause] the day of the womens march was to be one of the most uplifting events of the last 20 years. It was just having washington are new york or washington was. All over the world. High time. Years ago i read a book called the natural superiority of women in my book by net and apologist. Did your reference amended to you . David david no i forgot it did. Ashley montagu was a professor use a graduate student. They just discovered a huge collection of bones, human bones. This young man was in the basement of one of the academic buildings was the the female bones. He did this all day long. He began to look any realized it appeared to him the female bones have been designed by a very skilled sculptor. The males looked like they had been designed by another good student of sculpture who is trying to learn the trade. He thought are there other indications of women being better designed, better equipped to survive . He saw that women lived longer. Women are less susceptible to disease. They are stronger, if you dont use weight, and they can get certain things in certain ways that men cannot do very well. His theory was this all had to do with survival as a race. Creature, if you will. The only thing the man had to do was go out and kill the bear and bring it back to the could have dinner. He had to plant his seed. Women had to survive much longer because we are the only species that we have to wait for the brain to mature. Comes toer animal earth ready to roll almost immediately. We cant. Women have to be around much longer in order for the species to continue. Own i began studying my dear wifes memory and her ability with words. Whoa. We are missing something important here in our whole way of life. Maybe they are superior. Lets put them in charge of everything we can. [laughter] and let them also have the freedom to do what they are biologically designed to do, which is to give birth and raise children. Giving birth and raising children is not a substandard role in life. But if you have a desire or need or an obvious opening for you to do something else, by all means do it. I have had wonderful times writing about people like will a catheter that w mary cassette. Americans are considerable importance and whose path through life is a lesson we need to learn more about. We are raising these kids who are biologically by and large historically illiterate. It is a form of creeping amnesia. It is dangerous because if they get to the point where they dont appreciate all we have as a people, as a country and by tradition, they will be careless about it. They will not guarded. They will not stand for it. They will not stand defendant when its under attack. The world we are living in, the danger is so much more prevalent and immediate. Education about all of this is of the utmost. Not just history that all of it. But all of it. Information is not learning. They were sold this bill of goods about the information age. Yes, it is valuable and essential. Information is not learning i like to tell students regarding, ifon you were to memorize obama neck even the educated. Almanac even the educated. You would not be educated, you would be weird. Robert too Many Americans are historically illiterate. That are themes are previous speakers have spoken on. Writeve the ability to for not only scholars, but a very broad audience you might be unfamiliar or uninitiated with the topic. Is part of the answer improving our historical literacy is kind of compelling narrative and focusing on the people rather than just dates . David i think so. One of the huge influences on me as a writer writing history with barbara tuckman, whose works when i was quite young. Trick tothere is no teaching history or writing history. Tell stories. The stories are one of the reasons we have survived as a species. It is been our way of passing vital, necessary information on to succeeding generations. Everybody was illiterate. The art of the story is amething that developed as very important element in survival. We love it, we needed. Its one of the reasons we tolerate all the ads on television. They are almost always a little story. We hang on that. There is nothing wrong with that. There is everything to be said for it. There was a great analysis of the difference between information and story. If i tell you the king died in the queen died, that is a sequence of events. Not a story. I tell you the king that in the queen died of grief, thats a story. You have to get inside the emotional and human aspect of it. I have two confessions to make here in this wonderful gathering. First is i dont consider myself a historian. I did not major in history. I have no phd. I was an english major who wanted in a writing history. Wondered into writing history. I consider myself a writer who wants to write about real people and what really happened. Researchthe required and then some because i use a lot of Research Resources that most academics i know dont use it all. I have never undertaken the subject id much about. Iv much about. If i knew a lot about it, i wouldnt want to write the book. For me finding out about the subject is the adventure. Landing on a continent ive never set foot on an of setting foot to find out what i can. It is only to me, most all. It is amazing how if you have that point of view, you will find things that other people who rightfully claim to know all about it wont find because they are not seeing it with a fresh eye. Ive never undertaken the book any much about, the subject. Ine never undertaken a book which i did not find something in my research that nobody had found before. And thats very exciting when it happens. Robert the process of discovery. I will often come home bouncing around in my life will say whats going on . I found this letter today. On that note, how do you pick your topics . I loved your point earlier about when scholars as he what you think. Have you pick your topics . David sometimes i think they picked me, but that sounds a little tony so i wont stick with that phony so i wont stick with that. It can be different each time. They can be something summit he says that lunch, something i read, something that sparks my interest when writing a previous book. When i finished my first book of the johnstown flood, it was a horrific, awful event that he never have happened. Was questioned about what was my theme and i had no idea. It was only towards the end i realized my theme. Never assume. Because people are in a position of responsibility, they are therefore behaving responsibly. Cant assume that. [applause] david the dam that broke the never have broken. If people were carrying on the responsibilities none of that wouldve happened. Died. Eople that as many as in new york on 9 11. The worst disaster that everything the country. If you never have happened. Right after my book was published i was approached by two different publishers. One wanted me to do the San Francisco earthquake and the other wanted me to do the chicago fire. 32 and i was already being typecast as bad news mccullough. [laughter] david i did not like that. I thought why dont you try to find a subject that is a symbol of affirmation. That is when it came up with the idea, because of something someone said at lunch about the brooklyn bridge. The minute the subject was expressed as it was, how they had no idea what terrible problems they would have to address, i thought there it is. Because they succeeded. Again because they would not give up. Robert do you often find yourself going to write on jeffersonadams relationship, but he found adams to be much more compelling and easier to know where jefferson is very guarded. Do you find yourself in a case for you are shifting in focus and find yourself pursuing what you think will be a book on this direction, but you find information that moves you in that direction . David not often but it has happened. I think would appeal to me about adams was here was this mountain of marvelous material that nobody knew. Only a third of the correspondence had ever been looked at. Literally. By anyone writing a book or an essay or whatever. That is exciting. That is pioneering and i like that. Robert i read the john and abigail correspondence. What strikes me is not only does abigail emerge as of course a partner in his life, but the intellectual abigail emerges where they will discuss classic ands of literature or plays they will almost assume the roles of characters. She offers advice. He solicits and accepts her advice. Abigail emerges as a david she is terrific. To embark a little bit on another medium, film, tom hank production of a book on hbo, i thought Laura Linneys portrayal of abigail was superb. As was Paul Giamatti. Absolutely marvelous. And by the way, i have never seen people work harder to get the story right then that crew. Down to the props, costumes, the sets. Everything was historically accurate. As best as they could possibly do. Hanks is a national treasure. He is just phenomenal. Discussed him and whether i would agree that he could do the book. Lunch in ketchum, idaho. He got to the little coffee shop before i did. He is sitting there in a corner and had a baseball cap on. Nobody seemed to know who he was. He certainly was not trying to get people to notice him that he was there. Mead many producers approach wanting to do my book. Or a book of mine. I introduced myself. He got up, we shook hands. He said i love your book. I thought, oh brother. Because every producer i have ever then we started talking. I had a few questions. On the floor was a copy of my book. He picked it up. He had 10 times as many postits as that. He said about this one, do need to use that . Do we have to have this scene . I was really impressed he had done his homework. I said there are two things i would really insist on. It is not a costume pageant. You show people had bad teeth limps. Ffered from bad life was gritty and 30. He said fine. No problem. I said the other is you stick to the english line which of the 18th century. You dont have them tossing off little cute phrases of our time. You be the backup, albeit a good cop. Ill bee the bad cop, the good cop. And the fact that laura linney and Paul Giamatti are classically trained actors, we never had a complaint of people not being able to understand the 18th century english language. We have been working on the set down in virginia for about three or four days. Tom hanks is a brilliant man. He is not just a great actor. He is smart as hell, and a good man. I went to lunch one day with him. Craig, is number two man, sit with you think about tom . Do you like working with tom . I said very much. I cant get over how normal he is. [laughter] david he said he does normal very well. [laughter] robert you were on set for some of the filming . Did they solicit your advice as a historical consultant . You were pleased overall with all the trails . David a little i dont want to do that. One of them was not quite right but thats all right. That was minor. Robert tell us. David the many plated jefferson. I did not think he was right for the part. You wouldve been much better. [laughter] robert i would not wear the wig. Back to your selecting of topics, has there been anything in your books. He said the process of discovery is what drives you. I suspect part of the appeal of your writing is you writing it as if you just discovered this and the reader is often sharing that view. Is there something about the john adams book you really were shocked to find . A nugget. You said history has completely missed this aspect of john and abigail . David i think what most people who teaches three have neglected about adams is how he risked his life. And that was no easy thing. Of course he stood a chance of being captured and hung. And there was every reason why he may not have gone at all to europe. It would not have come out the way it did if he hadnt. , and not just the french but the dutch came and financially in a big way. Learningnsistence on and the constitution of the commonwealth of massachusetts. He wrote the constitution almost 10 years before our constitution that everything in it thats in our constitution, plus the bill of rights. Deserves infinite credit for that, which he never really got. There was something about president s who were elected into a second term that puts them on a different level of focus. One term president s dont get the attention they sometimes deserve. There is a mythology about the presidency. The idea of the great president s, all president s during the time of war. Not true. One of the greatest we had, theodore roosevelt. There was no war during his time. He wished there have been. [laughter] david but he was phenomenal. Absolutely phenomenal. And an historian. Our best president s have been students of history. About half of them are authors of history. Woodrow wilson was a professor of history. John kennedy wrote history. I think Dwight Eisenhowers crusade in europe is one of the written aboutr the Second World War and he wrote every word of it himself. No ghostwriter at all. Eisenhower is a miss. He has not gotten sufficient credit. He did not go into vietnam. Yet the judge president s by what they do and what they dont do. And that is extremely important. Adams did not go to war with france. That is extremely important. Eisenhower did not go into vietnam. Of history was profound. He wrote three good books about American History. Harry truman never went to college at probably read as much history as anybody weve ever had in the white house. He loved it. Truman had a great life of the leading new this world was the history you have not read yet. He understood the lessons. David the other thing he said thats important is to try to never forget who i was, where i came from, and where i would go back to. He never wanted to go to his head. Thats an important quality. One of my most favorite scenes was when he was about to appoint George Marshall secretary of state. One of his young white house staff people, clark clifford, said mr. President , you might want to think twice about that. In appointing general marshall. Truman said why is that . Because if you appoint him secretary of state, in about two or three months people will service saying general marshall with a better president than you are. He said general marshall would make a better president than i am, but im the president and i want the best possible people. That is somebody who knows who he is. He is not bedazzled by the fact or in the us or jealous by the fact that eisenhower in marshall and all these other people or taller than he is and handsomer. He had one of the best, cabinets weve ever had acid washington. As didwashington washington. One of our luckiest rakes was George Washington was there at the beginning. Never forget George Washington stepped down after two terms. He was the commander in chief, not just for the eight years he was president , but also the commander in chief of the eight years he was commanderinchief of the army when we had a president. He was our commander, our leader for 16 years. Longer than anybody in our history. David gary robert harry truman is my favorite president and my hero. What attracted you to writing a book about harry truman . The fact he was underappreciated and underrated in the president ial ranking polls, or because he was a common person . David i wish i had some very story,d answer to that showing how the reach of my historical imagination [laughter] editormy publisher and got in their minds, knowing my history and art and painting that there was not a good biography of pablo picasso. And i should write one. Dangling it in front of my eyes. Feed, large family to this was not unimportant. I also imagined we would have to go to the south of france for a year or so. [laughter] david then i began to read into the life of pablo picasso. I dont want this guy for my roommate for the next eight years. He really was no. Just tohings that were be unconscionable. It was not just his lack of faithfulness to women. It was beyond that. Agent andy editor, my i said is not going to work. I decided this after two months. We got together for lunch at simon schuster. Editor, a wonderful writer and a wonderful man, said do you realize there is not a good one volume biography of fdr . I had just finished several years with theodore roosevelt. I said i have been with the roosevelts for four years and i think everybody a change of scene. I said if ever going to write a book about 20th century president , given up a fragment franklin roosevelt. It would be harry truman. Everybody said yes, what a great thing. I thought whitey why the hell did i say that . I have no idea why i said it. I never gave three minutes thought to doing a book about harry truman. [laughter] david i said hold on, hold on. Let me go out to independence and see what there is to work with. Let me talk to margaret and see if she will cooperate. Levy interviewed her let me interview her and so forth. Vividly because he was president when i was in high school and college. Memories most vivid was the night of the 1948 election. I was 15 and very interested in politics. I grew up in a very republican family. I tried to stay awake as long as i could hear the outcome. The final tally could not committed to about 2 00 in the morning. I probably went to sleep around 11 00. My father was shaving and i went dad, who won . He said truman like it was the end of the world. 25, 30 years went by. I came home to visit with my father. After dinner we were chatting. He launched into how the world was going to hell and the country was going to hell. I heard this much of my life. Then he paused and said, too bad old harry isnt still in the white house. [laughter] david thats what happened to the country. Thats all we now all realize. His answer was that you have to wait for the dust to settle. It takes at least 50 years. Thats true. President still look the same after 50 years go by because we see what follows. I think another very important point to keep in mind always, and i try to talk about this with students. I do a lot of lecturing at colleges and universities. The exceptional president s are the exception. They dont happen all the time. We should not expect it all the time. We should expect wanting to do your best and be responsible and so forth, but you cant count on it. We have franklin roosevelt, harry truman, and Dwight Eisenhower all in a row. That cannot happen very often. Robert and for multiple terms. David when kennedy called for us to do something for our country, i took that entirely to heart. I had a very good job that time in life in new york. I like the people, everything about it. And i had a family to account for. But i quit my job to go down to do something for my country. Know anyone in the kennedy crowd or the government, but anyone had certain skills and experience that can be of value. I literally went door to door luck,want up, best of getting a job at the u. S. Information agency. Then kennedy appointed edward r. Murrow is ahead of it. Boy, was i am of the time right away. Way over my head. After six months i realized we all were over our heads. Really. Anyone is over their heads in those jobs. Happen to be doing some research on a project for a magazine i was editing up at the library of congress in cam across came across these photographs from pittsburgh who got into johnstown right after the disaster and it taken hundreds of pictures. They were spread out on a big table. We stopped to look at them. Rosie was with me. We stopped to look at them. I had grown up hearing about the johnstown flood that i didnt know what it was. The devastation of those pictures. I took a book out of the library and it wasnt very good, about the flood. The author did not really understand the geography of western pennsylvania. I took another one out that was a potboiler written at the time, which was just absurd. Timele i spent a lot of with thorton wilder, a great playwright and novelist. We asked at one point how he got the ideas for his plays and his novels. He said i imagine a story i would like to see performed on stage or read in a book. I check around. If nobody has written it, i write it so i can see performed on stage or a can read it in a book. I thought, why dont you write a book room about the johnstown flood that you can read . Once i got started i knew thats what it wanted to do the rest of my life. Robert i have often said there is heaven and harry and john adams. If i get there, i would pull them aside and say you both need to sit down because youre not going to believe this. They were often times very unpopular and criticized. Today we love the two of you and you are revered. They would expect the reputations to be restored. When joe ellis said to me it is clear that david fell for abigail, i said i think you fell for harry and john too. Part of your writing is you bring up the individual. Do you feel when you are writing you are trying to get to know these guys . You are sitting across the table with them . Talk a little bit about that process. David several things. I always have to go where events happened. And soak it up. Live with it. I found it particularly with truman the things he said, the things or his mannerisms were not just his. Thats the way they did it. Robert you walk around independence. Where he walked david you dont get too big for your britches. What they have on his desk . The buck stops here. Absolutely. He would never forget a friend. The wonderful scene. A man who died in independence. The minister was there for the burial service, and the people from the funeral house. And nobody else. And all of a sudden this little coupe came driving up, stop and out got harry truman. He came over and stood by the service. Minister,as over the a man i interviewed, asked him. Mr. President , how is it you have come here . He said a man never forgets a friend. The other story i dearly adore is when he came home from the white house, he had driven a car for eight years. He had nothad had anything but the Services President s get. He and bess were invited to have dinner with friends. They got into the car and they cannot find the neighbors house. It was not right around the corner. Setrand tradition, bess stop and ask for directions. Do he got out of the parke car. Knocked on the door. A man came to the door and he said that he tell me where the andersons with . He said its easy. Take a second left in this the third house on the right. Truman thanked him and started back on the walk. The man called after him. Say, did anyone or tell you you look like harry truman . [laughter] yes, truman called back, i hear that quite often. The man said it must make you mad as hell. [laughter] was only one person who couldve told that story in that harry truman. He is telling on himself. That is why he was so human. I think one of the greatest things he did was to desegregate the armed services, and the federal government. It was not just the armed services. One stroke of the pen did it. And let them all fight about it after it was done. Robert he took a lot of heat for that. 1948 was an election year. David the most unfortunate unpopular thing he did was fired macarthur. Now everyone realizes he could not of that anything less. He asked marshall to look into it. He said i dont know why he didnt fire him long before this. He was disobeying orders. Robert we are almost out of time but it wanted to talk about your new book. We talked about it on the phone. The northwest ordinance. What attracted you to this topic . Manesaa man named cutler. He was a minister for the church in its switch, massachusetts. University. Driv le had a fun to givedrive, i was asked to a talk to the alumni and the people who made this big drive such a success. He asked me to give the talk that launched the campaign. But to give a talk at lunch is is differentlaunch than after it succeeded. What do you do after you climb the mountain . We have done this wonderful thing, yes, but that is not much of a subject. I decided i would take out three alumni who have been distinctive in their time, but who had been largely neglected or forgotten. His achievement had nothing to do with wealth. Cu of them was this man, tler. He convinced the continent of congress to go ahead with the northwest ordinance. And it would be complete freedom of religion. There would be government public support of education and no slavery. I thought whoa. I had never heard of him, which meant he even more interested. Once i get into it and found what he had done, i found a few were the people who went out and settled it. Again, going back to my great i alwaysrton wilder, thought would never be wonderful to write a book that would be like our town, is great masterpiece. Im writing about people you never heard of. Rather than having a historic celebrity get even to thetent get you into the tent, im convinced if i could find such a story i can make it work. To make it work yet to find the material. I stumbled because the on aested in cutler collection of Marietta College in ohio. It was the first element in all the Northwest Territory. I found letters, diaries, unpublished memoirs such as you dream of finding. I have got at least five or six characters for whom i have enough material that i could write a biography of each one of them. Adversities and the roadblocks. The things that would make most of us give up. But they did not give up. Robert is it a story of these revolutionary war soldiers were not been adequately paid and son of future . David they were all revolutionary war stories. The government had no money. Given landthey were by britain. It was infinite value. It was bigger than all the 13 colonies. It was bigger than all of france. There was nobody except for the indians living there. No bridges, no roads. The only road with the ohio river. The courage it took to do that, to go out there. They not only established a community that is freedom of religion and Government Support for education. These are very urgent values, and of slavery puritan values, and no slavery. This would affect everything that came afterward. They recreated a new england village. You can drive into the little towns there today. Into the massachusetts, connecticut, rhode island as easily as for they are. Where they are. They were not pioneers in the sense of daniel boone or explorers with no responsibilities other than staying alive. They were coming with their families. It was a family venture. In those days they had very large families. Many were going out with 8, 10, 12 children. Many of those children died en route of disease or something else. It was brave in the extreme. An admirable in the extreme. They lived up to their pledge of public education. Ohio,niversity in athens, the Main Building is cutler hall. University ort College Building west of the alleghenies. Ohio im glad in to say really know a lot about this history. If i were to name these people, it would not be unfamiliar names. When you think if you came out of that Northwest Territory in the way of americans of importance, its amazing. The first human being ever to machine,ht in a flying the first human being ever set foot on the moon both came from the same section of ohio. I dont think its just coincidental. Any ohioans here . Yes. [applause] robert do you have a title yet david the pioneers. They were pioneers in education, aviation, so forth. Robert time for one last question. It was alluded to earlier. If you did not know, the man sitting on stage is quite the painter, dancer and singer. I was asked by friends of yours to comment on the chiquita banana story. Many oddhave qualities. [laughter] david i will not delve and all of them. One is i know the lyrics to probably 500 songs or more. I have never memorized them. I cant quote shakespeare. I cant quote poe or other poets, but i know the words to an infinite number of songs. Including wonderful songs, wonderful lyrics. There was a professor at yale teaching a course in american poetry it would include the lyrics of coal porter and hammerstein and others. Im all for that. They dont have lyrics anymore. What they call lyrics are not exactly lyrics. I also know the words to songs that were not rank high among the Great American poets. I was asked to give an example. Banana and im here to say bananas have to ripen in a certain way when they have a golden hue bananas taste the best of the best for you you can put them in a salad you can put them then a pie anyway you want to eat them its impossible to beat them then it is like the climate of the very tropical equator you should never put bananas in the river refrigerator no, no, no [applause] can i do one more . Robert please. Enorcore. David this is dedicated to gay gines. Hey, good looking hows about cooking something up with me hey, sweet baby dont you say maybe we can have is a branding recipe i got a hot rod ford and 82 bill i know a place over the hill the dancing is free if you want to have some fun, come along with me hey goodlooking cooking something up with me [applause] robert so here we go. These remarkable historic david thank you very much. Robert i bet you never thought you would hear the chiquita banana song. David mccullough. David thank you very much. Thank you everyone. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2017] you were watching American History tv, all weekend, every weekend on cspan 3. To join the conversation, like us on facebook at cspan history. Cspan is exploring American History. Th