Virginia. Explore anere to aspect of the civil war that is very much in the news. It has been in the news for several years. Some of you have found these rancorous debates about civil justonuments traveling and wish the debates will go away. But you know it wont just go away. The constructive thing to do is to accept the debates is evidence that the subject of our institution, the American Civil War museum, is relevant today. Many of you are regulars to the events, history buffs to look learn you love to study history. I would like to extend a welcome to those of you who are new, the preservationists, in the audience. Museum of the the American Civil War center, we have always audit was our response thought it was our responsibility to engage constructively with issues arising from the civil war, whether that subject be monuments, the confederate battle flag or the discussion of slavery as the cause of the war. Today is to promote a constructive and civil consideration of civil war monuments. We have organized a program that features scholars from diverse academic backgrounds that bring diverse perspectives to the movement. They will give us different viewpoints that will help us understand what is involved in these discussions and debates. Too often people only talk to or listen to others with whom they agree, but whatever your personal opinion as you walked hear opinionswill that differ from yours. I hope you agree that is a good thing and exposure to other ideas and perspectives is the way we all learn and the way that a Civil Society should engage in divisive issues. As you can see from your program, we will have three speakers before lunch and two speakers after lunch, followed by a panel discussion. There will be an opportunity for from the audience, and we hope that there will be good discussion amongst the panelists program. Nal but this will be civil talk. This is not the Jerry Springer show. Broadcastingare live, i would ask that you help. Eep to the time schedule i will also say after our live Coverage Today of the entire conference, cspan in tens to each slot, starting march 25 on saturday night, each slot once a week for the entire program. Additionally, on our website and on cspan fro website, you can cspans website, you can see videos of programs we have done at the museum. Now we would like to introduce our first speaker. Colleagueleman is my to read she is a native of williamsburg. She holds a ba in Museum Studies from hampton university. Formation of the American Civil War museum, she was the ceo of the American Civil War museum in historic treader historic treader tredagar. Began her career in public history at colonial williamsburg. There,ore than a decade she became its director of public programs. Isty is no stranger to controversies over public histories. After being at the center of the storm of the reenactment of a slave auction. She was quickly introduced to the strong feelings that surround civil war monuments. She recently served on Governor Terry mcauliffes monument work group. We will let christy tell us more about all of this in her program called monuments, markers, museums. Ladies and gentlemen, Christy Coleman [applause] ms. Coleman good morning, everyone. Good morning. Ms. Coleman that was quite an. Ntroduction, was in it mike ullman motter would be very upset if i did not make one alma mater would be very upset if i did not make one slight correction. I had an intimate in museum i in Museum Studies. This is a process requiring an understanding of the delicate, but Necessary Balance between history, heritage, and memory. It is understanding that history is never static. It is understanding that each generation looks to the past to make sense of the world in which they are currently living. We ask questions, each generation, that may not be be same questions a previous generation asks, but the difference in the answers does not mean the narrative they are eloping is somehow faults or inaccurate. It is simply that history is present. Understandalso notions of heritage reflect stories and remembrances that a community has negotiated to preserve and reflect itself. This happens at interesting points in time. That thet is from this memories themselves are formed, whether they are the stories shared on the front porch of an elders house, or whether it is the first trip to a battlefield where you got to listen to the skilled ranger weve narratives that helps you remember or live a particular moment. , it is all through a landscape that is dotted with statuary. Play intose things our understanding. All of these things play into how we regard ourselves, our communities, our nations. When i became president of the civil war center, i thought that would be my feeling it never occurred to me the same way the importance of a landscape. Yes, i love Historic Preservation and beautiful buildings. But it never really occurred to monument statue or could mean or the power that it could have. And i mentioned 2008 because i was newly appointed as president and ceo of the American Civil War center when, less than a month in the job, i opened up the Richmond Times dispatch and lowered the hold, there was an article talking about the major donation of a statue lo the reason article talking about the major donation of a statue of Jefferson Davis by the sons of the confederacy to the museum. Admittedly, i was a little stunned. No one mentioned this to me, either in interviews or early meetings. There is a reason why they did not mention it, and that was because the article was the first time any of them had heard of this alleged donation. Since no one within the organization had been directly contacted, i simply waited, reachng that they would out when they were ready, and sure enough, they did. Within a few days, i received a phone call, asking for a meeting, which i graciously honored. Sure, come on in. Id love to here more about this. And we sat down and started conversations. , we haveee, museums protocols. We have policies. We have all those things. I made it very clear that our process is that we look at a donation. Merit. Ider its historic we consider its artistic merit, all those things, and then the Collections Committee would make its recommendation to be full board. I explained this to the gentlemen. And we spent months researching this piece. And asked davis scholars in particular to give thingir insight about the , the depiction within the statute, because that, too, was critically important. And gathered all of these data points so that we as an institution could make an informed decision. Notuse you see i am also foolish enough to think it is simply the way it was. Fairly newtest for a organization that had just hired an africanamerican woman to run it. Or to a test to determine put into place what we would be. Now, i have to tell you during all of this, i also got on the rawls, mycalled wade colleague at the museum of the confederacy. I said, wait, i dont understand. If this incident that is depicted happened at the white house, why didnt they offer it to you . And he says, well, some of them hate our guts. Well, i dont understand. That doesnt make any sense to me. You are the museum of the confederacy. Yes, i get that a long time ago you stopped being the museum for the confederacy, i have known that since the early 1990s when i started doing work for the organization. I could not wrap my head around this. Above all, it was my intention that we would do our job, that give it thefact consideration we would any other artifact being offered. And thats what we did. We spent several months. We follow the protocols. The team made its recommendation to the full board. Discussion was the first monument controversy ive ever been in in my life. Beginning,id at the it was really quite constructive, listening to these these men and women have, yes, at times passionate discussion about whether or not the museum should accept it. What could we do if we did accept it . What was the expectation of a donor if we did accept it . All very valid questions. Which the staff spent a considerable amount of time working through. As we were preparing for the that it was clear to me this was not going to be an easy fix for a variety of reasons, not necessarily for the reasons that you think. What was disturbing on some level was that some of it had become so impassioned for some, even though nobody was yelling and screaming at each other or anything ridiculous like that, but some folks, i have to say, felt that our not accepting it would somehow would cast and aspersion, right . Others felt as accepting it aspersion. An it was really quite interesting. But one word member in particular, before we took the vote one board member in particular, before we took the vote, said very thoughtfully, what business are we in . Business ofe education. We are in the business of public history. Therefore, we could use this statue as an opportunity to talk about how People Choose to remember. And the beauty of that moment descended onlm that group as we now talked about the business that we rin. As the press was waiting with bated breath for this board eting to conclude, the board voted to accept the statue , as long as the donor understood that it would have to be accepted under the policy set forth in the museums collections policy program that was established long before i ever walked in the door. As it turned out, those terms were unacceptable. Because frankly, they wanted to tell us exactly where it was going to go. They wanted to tell us exactly how it was going to be interpreted on the site. They i mean, it was really quite interesting. There were groups of them that would show up on the site and just walked the grounds and start putting in some cases little stakes in the ground, and they wanted it to be placed it was really interesting they wanted it to be placed on a slight hillside below where lincolns monument was, right . Now, this is a little aside for you. The Lincoln Monument was placed dagar site as a gift to the National Park service. That happened in 2003, before the center ever came into being at that site. , placement of the was likelytue itself to arouse controversy. Quite frankly going through this scb,esting dynamic with the National Park service shared letters about that and it was deplorable the things that were being said. We had 2000plus people who gathered to dedicate this monument. A very subtle thing. Its relatively subtle compared to the monolith that we have on monument avenue. A fairly subtle thing. 2003 asas dedicated in a plane flew overhead with a sic temper tyrannus. Made it through the crowd, some through birdseed on it with the intent to have the. Tatue blessed by passing birds really quite stunning, but it was the letters. I read through the letters. I just could not get over the venom. And again, that is when i understood the power of the of a thinge power for some people. Now again, that kind of opened my eyes the first time to really thinking about what monuments say about our communities. What they can mean. What they can evoke. And the truth of the matter is, when we think about this thing in that way, we recognize that they are powerful symbols. They are meant to be. That is why they are erected in the first place. Goersurists and Museum Explore the civil war, most of them, through these things, by visiting thousands of monuments and museums and historical markers that are scattered all over the united states. Battlesings document and events and personalities of the war. Heroes and others, and depending on ones perspective, there are south,ars, north and east and west. But collectively, these places really should remind us that the civil war altered everything in america, not just the landscape, but economy and politics and social structure and more. However, i have to ask this question. View of the wars cause and legacies were visitors getting from this experience . A recent study by the Pew Research Center and by recent, i mean 2015 found 40 ofre than respondents believed to be primary cause of the civil war meaninges rights tariffs, notification of his, compared to 38 noting slavery as the root cause. Publicn public europe history, we clearly understand, academia, obviously, the causes of the war word deeply intertwined the causes of the war were deeply intertwined. But a more general interpretation proves challenging for many reasons, and i would dare say part of that is what the landscape looks like in many of these places. Whether you are in the north and you see monuments to grant or, you know, sherman, or whoever it there is this notion of sort of, we won, so we are done and they dont pay much attention to it. A little, its different. And in fact, when you factor in the reality that most civil war sites and battlefields are principally in the south, how do you think things often will be remembered . Quite frankly, among the most prominent i say among the our former know institution among the most battlefields, the and those are run by the National Park service. For decades, the park service, as brilliant as they are, as dynamic as they are, avoided the controversy of cause of work, focusing solely on actions focusing of war, solely on actions. They focused on military actions. A focused on leaders. With great vibrants. Right . Littlet approach proved in terms of helping move the dial for generations that were coming to those places now, asking new questions. Needing a different context,. Eeding something more other related museums and civil war sites often face the same dynamic, some moving faster than others. And for the park, it took a little act of congress in the 1990s to bring about any changes about discussing causes of war. Richmond, thee in former capital of the confederacy, how the civil war was interpreted here was, without a doubt and it always. Ad a National Impact where here in richmond memorialization of the war took on a grand scale. Being theof course election of the monuments to roberts e. Lee. Lee. Bert e. His death, after group of women in particular started and the Lee Memorial Association gathered to talk about where should the monument go . And richmond, absolutely at had to be richmond. They started talking about how they wanted to remember him, this honored figure. A little bit,k up i think it is important to raging,nd as the war is a certain memorialization is regardingin the war the dead. On the federal side we have the establishment of National Cemeteries in order to their release tens of thousands of men who are losing their lives on the battlefields, and the Confederate States of america did not have a similar system. Unfortunate, what that meant was hadoften, many of its dead to languish in the field until someone could retrieve their bodies, or they lay in shallow graves. And there was outrage around this fact. , mostly middle to upper class white women, organize to rectify this situation. Toget these organizations reberry. And when they are building these monolithic monuments. The erect and of the lee thement the direction erection of the lee monument becomes an important historical piece. When it is dedicated, 100,000 people, 100 thousand people, show up on the outskirts of richmond to participate. Can you imagine that . Up. 000 people showed it was quite the spectacle. It would not take much longer, due to the success of that particular venture, for other , on myts to be erected unit avenue in richmond, virginia, the developing real estate on monument avenue in richmond, virginia, the building real estate. The next three decades, the jeb stuart monument, the jefferson thomasonument in 1907, stonewall jackson, Matthew Fontaine murray in 1929. Each of them in bedded in granite. One would find the ofomplishments of the each, while simultaneously speaking to honor and sacrifice. And as i said before, the placement of the lee monument a loan in 1890 quickly made richmond a must see destination for the confederate faithful and the curious from around the world. Which thed in soldiers are dying off, again north and south, what is often referred to as the memorial period. And that makes sense, right . People are dying. You want to remember them. But we cannot ignore the other social forces taking place at the time. And particularly, this is the birth of jim crow also going on. The federal government has backed up. The south is able to do what it does, and part of that, again, makes itself real and is supported by the federal obviously, the Supreme Court of the united states, several members of whom were still very much closely related to the south. Some were confederate sympathetics. Ruled in plessy v. Ferguson. It is a powerful reassertion of white supremacy, and these monuments are going up at the same time. Is it any wonder, then, that peoples views of them may not be honorific . Is it any wonder that for some people, from the beginning, these are not things to celebrate . That they, in fact, could be powerful and painful images of oppression . We would not see another surge in monuments like that until the late 1940s and 1950s, which is sort of the second wave, if you will. And again, what is interesting about that you know, especially as we were beginning to approach the centennial. By 1961, we were beginning to see another wave of monuments, principally in the south. But you cannot ignore what is happening in the larger and wider society. This is also the period of the modern civil rights era. Its during this time not only that we see more statues, but it is incomplete defiance of the Supreme Courts decision in brown v. Board, but it is right here in our own state. Barbara johnson, her classmates walking out of the deplorable School Conditions that they were expected to learn and, that schools throughout the country, particularly again in the south let me correct myself particularly in the south, started to rename those very schools. If they had not shut them down, began renaming those schools after confederate icons. Many of those schools that had majority students of color. Again, what do symbols and monuments and things mean . There has always been this up and down. We have always struggled with what this means. When richmond and its community began having these conversations again and do not think for one minute that the recent discussions around monument removal is new. It is not. Here in richmond, it has been going on for quite a while. But when many richmond civic and Community Leaders decided to tackle this question, they chose a slightly different route. They decided that what was most important was not taking away but enhancing and adding to, that our stories are vast and each of them worthy, and they started in the 1970s. Its interesting to me for a lot of reasons, but it is interesting to me that the very first monument that richmond put up to honor an africanamerican in 1973, and it was a statue to honor bill bojangles robinson. Yes, he was a very worldrenowned, beloved hollywood figure. He got to dance with Shirley Temple and taught her how to tap. But this would be the first image that would be depicted. Another monument devoted to an africanamerican would not go up for another 20 years. 1993, the boatman was dedicated, being eventually placed on Browns Island as part of a riverfront development. But at one point it was moved or stolen or something and had to actually be anchored down much more tightly. That particular statue was designed to honor the black men who were crucial to the enterprise involving the river, these boatmen who made richmond home, enslaved and free. Soon it was henry box brown, and you would probably walk right by it. Its just the box on the ground. By the time the Lincoln Statue showed up, there was already trouble of foot in richmond because again, this fight, this backandforth of images and landscapes have been waging here for quite a while. Some of you who are richmond natives may remember these flashpoints around, particularly, confederate imagery had been happening quite a bit. Monument avenue is not just the primary focus, even though we know that many of the statues there frequently are defaced, and that has been having increased frequency, unfortunately. But in 2000, it exploded again. Because there were many in richmonds Africanamerican Community that raged against the image of robert e. Lee being included on a banner that was celebrating and highlighting richmonds most iconic figures on the citys floodwall. The lee banner was burned by what police described as a molotov cocktail, and the culprit or culprits were never found. When attempts to replace it were made, a city councilmember railed against it while vulgar threats and racial epithets were hurled at him. The united daughters of the confederacy and sons of confederate veterans lodged their own complaints. They strongly did believe that lee did deserve to be honored among those depicted. The commander of the division of scv at the time called for a swift and thorough investigation of the vandalism, labeling it as nothing less than a crime of hatred toward southerners and confederate history. Passionate times. What happened two years ago in charleston, south carolina, a young man waving confederate iconography set the world on fire again and, like, a rippling effect, in communities all over, this question of what shall we do, how shall we remember, from changing names on academic buildings to actually removing statuary from public squares, to what i consider a more reasonable approach, recognizing that the landscape is big enough to say all of who and what we are, recognizing that the same investment and care should be given, recognizing that we also have an opportunity to help our current generations by answering their questions honestly. To provide the context, in many cases, to these places and these statuary that may, in fact, be far more difficult for them to understand. Yes, i have watched all of this. All of this happened within our institution, within our field. Trying to figure out how we can best serve, how we can provide a space for our visitors, our guest, our communities no matter what side they are on, to come together to have reasoned discussion, to come together to figure out how we do this. The table if you feel its too short, build a new one. Its not over. I recently learned actually just a couple of days ago that even in louisville, kentucky, a statue has just been removed and will be moved to another location. We all know about what happened in charlottesville. We know what happened in new orleans. Our stories are vast. Today, you are going to hear a number of conversations, a number of perspectives around how we can and should remember. But here is the beautiful thing it was communities that made these decisions for themselves. Therefore, it should be communities that make the decisions now. Its just our hope that in making those decisions, with all the passion that lies underneath, that we understand what we are doing and why. So, with that, im going to turn it over for questions because i think i have six minutes remaining. Ive been trying to be very good. [laughter] ms. Coleman anybody who has ever heard me speak before [applause] ms. Coleman knows that i can definitely go on and on and on, but cspan made me be disciplined today, so i actually had paper, which has hardly ever happened. Anyway, are there any questions at this point . And i will repeat the question if necessary. Good morning. I wanted to ask you, what is your lease on why the lee statue was taken down in charlottesville . Ms. Coleman what is my perspective on why it was taken down . It has not come down yet. I understand its going to be about 700,000 to do it, which is stunning to me. As one colleague has said, quite passionately, cant they find Something Else to do with that money . Seriously, i was surprised by that decision, but as i just said, communities decided to put them up, and as long as the conversation that is happening in that community is one that is reasoned, a community can decide to move it. Its tough. I get that there are people sitting out there right now looking at me going, why would she say that . Thats so wrong. Not saying thats what i would do. Im saying i understand the logic. The dominance of these pieces and the fact that a community has not made an effort to add to the landscape, if this is the dominant basically, the communities are saying, this is how we want to be remembered, and as a Community Changes and says, no, this is not the only way we want to be remembered, that is Something Else. In richmond, the conversation has certainly been passionate but often tends to be a little more even toned because of the variety of statuary that have been added to our landscape, particularly in the last 25 years, and it does make a difference when you can see a reconciliation statue, knowing there will be a statue to maggie walker, knowing it makes a difference. When our capital flair takes all this history into effect, i think that is what is lacking, and i daresay that is one of the conversations communities could have. For my second ms. Coleman no, you only get one. Thank you, sir. Yes . Im from charlottesville. When you say that communities need to have that conversation, thats very true. The problem is in charlottesville, we have a city council of five members, all of whom are democrats and none of whom are from charlottesville, and they appointed a Blueribbon Commission consisting of three specialty members and six members at large. Of the members at large, none of them were from charlottesville. They had 4 africanamericans on there and 2 very liberal white people. The citizens do not feel very involved in the discussion. Ms. Coleman can you imagine being part of a community that you feel no one is listening to you . Absolutely. The irony is not lost on me. Ms. Coleman i am not from charlottesville. I appreciate what youre saying. I do take a certain offensive they were all democrats, if they were republicans, they would get this. I dont think that is fair. I know some hardcore confederati that are democrats. I think were often so quick to dismiss by these labels that we are not hearing, and i know that i was a little snarky, so please forgive me, but the idea of nobody is hearing us and they dont represent us that essentially is what the communities often are saying, that nobody was listening to us and nobody was hearing us when we were saying theres something about this that eats at my soul. When you step back from that, it gives us a better would talk about it. I really did not want to speak to the decision itself because i followed it in the paper like everyone else but i was never at the meetings, and i know it will come up again. We have time for one more question and then i have to leave. This gentleman right here. Yes, sir . Good morning. In my study of American History, no white people founded america, ok . And no black people was in process. This language is what am having difficulty what i am having difficulty with. Do you follow . Ms. Coleman no. We fail to realize that these terms came along at a time of slavery to plant the idea of inferiority and superiority and human beings. Ms. Coleman understood. Ok, so the question related to the topic then. The question related to the topic is that we cannot address the issue until we abolish the psychological impact of institutional racism. This language black and white is very divisive. If i was to ask american europeans here where they came from, they cannot say that they came from whiteland. Even today, we are the most Pluralistic Society on the planet earth with tribes and nationalities from all over the world. Until wed just like during the time before the civil war, no one wanted to make the issue of institutional slavery the reason here today, no one wants to make the issue of institutional racism the issue that is tearing us apart, and we have to change the paradigm. Ms. Coleman ok, understood. I think i know where the question is going. The bottom line is its about narrative change and you are absolutely right. The conversation about statuary is about merit of change within the community. The other issue youre talking about, thats a different conference at a different symposium, but as it relates to monuments and statuary, its about narrative change. That is what communities are grappling with. How shall we remember . Thank you all very much. [applause] interested in American History to be . Visit our website, cspan. Org history. American history tv at cspan. Org history. Sunday night, university of pennsylvania professor reports on alternatives to traditional banking. She is interviewed by a senior fellow at the Consumer Federation of america. I wrote the book because i could not understand originally why if alternative financial peoples were so bad for why so many people were using them. In the course of my research, i learned that banks were not the lowing below and increasingly middleclass and there were some good alternatives coming on board and i wanted to tell that whole story. Sunday night at 9 00 eastern on cspan 2 book tv. Railroad wasround not underground and it was not an actual railroad. Next, a panel of the story and discuss what they see as some historians discuss what they see as some of the most Common Misconceptions about the underground railroad. The scholars explore how to make history more engaging in the classroom and the importance for all americans of understanding the continuing legacy of slavery and freedom. This event is in kansas city, missouri. I am going to ask that we have three students with us this evening from the university who are history majors, jonathan clark, alexander ishmael, and mark leads