Transcripts For CSPAN3 Congressman Lincoln 20170723

This is the meeting for, congressman lincoln the making of americas greatest president. Thank you so much to cspan for hosting authors like me and letting us talk about what we do. And thank you for changing hands. This is the second event we have done here in over a year. Chris having bookstores like this is such a treasure. Nobody can leave until every copy of the book is sold. [laughter] chris thank you for being here. The book is congressman lincoln the making of americas greatest president. What do i mean by greatest president . I mean most significant. At the end of the day, it was Abraham Lincoln to engage the south any civil war in order to preserve the union. It is Abraham Lincoln that result the slavery issue that had vexed the statesman back to the founding. And this story, why congressman lincoln . There are 16,000 books written about Abraham Lincoln. If you go to fords theatre in washington dc, which is the final scene of the extraordinary story, you will see half that number piled to the ceiling. And when i say books about Abraham Lincoln, i do not mean about mary todd or the civil war, i mean about him. But yet, books about his time in congress, one of three political jobs he ever had. The only other job he had in the federal government, besides president. There have only been three of them written and this is the third. The last one was written before i was born. This is the missing piece of the puzzle in the lincoln story. I think we are all very familiar with his hardscrabble upbringing. We know about his career in the illinois legislature. We know about his career in the court houses of illinois, handling of a variety of cases as a frontier lawyer. We are very familiar with the lincoln story as president. Right . The author of the emancipation proclamation, the guy that wrote the gettysburg address. Sixteenth president of the United States. The president who led the union during americas greatest moral and political crisis. And also during americas most tragic war. So this is the missing piece of the lincoln puzzle. The first thing that i want to talk about is the ambition of Abraham Lincoln. You know, we like to associate ambition with a negative thing. Someone who wants to go into politics, to be associated with campaigns in politics, we think about it as a negative thing today. So as a result, we try to think of him as being above the muck and the dirty campaigning, the negative campaigns, everything that we dislike about our modern political system. The truth is, we cannot make those criticisms without leveling them at Abraham Lincoln. The first chapter is called, the most ambitious man in the world. It is a quote about Abraham Lincoln from his law partner, william herndon. Abraham lincoln, from the earliest time in his life, his family members would attest he was hungry to be somebody. Once he got in trouble, she said behaving like that, what do you expect to be when you grow up . He told his sister, president of the United States. Said theret, lincoln was never a time in my life where i do not believe i would be president of the United States. He worked hard to make something of himself and to make his life one that would be remembered. One that we would talk about today. His ambition, where does that take him . He served in the Illinois House of representatives. In 1843, he makes his first bid for congress. He writes a friend of his, he says, if you hear anybody say that mr. Lincoln does not wish to go to congress, i wish you to tell them they are very much mistaken. The truth is, i would like to go very much. Lincoln has two major obstacles in his way. One of them is a gentleman named edward baker, a friend of his. Is namedncoln sons after baker. Another one is john hardin. They have similar qualifications to lincoln. They are all about the same age. They are all three lawyers. And members of the illinois legislature. Or former members. They all have similar qualifications. So lincoln, his first hurdle he has to get over is the county convention. His home county and the home county of edward baker, they will nominate delegates to districtwide congressional meeting where the nominees are going to be chosen. Illinois is heavily democratic at this time. If you are an ambitious whig in illinois, this district was your only hope to move up. You are not going to be elected governor or chosen for the u. S. Senate where legislature. If you are an upwardly mobile whig in 1843, this was your shot. So lincoln have to outmaneuver baker at the convention. Unfortunately, does not go as planned. He throws in the towel around noon and one newspaper recorded if he had just hung in until nightfall his supporters would have shown up later in the day and maybe oddnumbered outnumbered supporters for bigger. As it stands, lincoln ends up as a pledge delegate for the districtwide convention, pledged to baker. He said it was similar to being the guy that gets cut out of a relationship, gets his girlfriend stolen from him and many have to stand up in the wedding. So baker is defeated by hardin. Now you have hardin that is younger than him, and hes going to be there as long as he wants. Lincoln can see the dream of going to congress disappearing very quickly. Abraham lincoln comes up with an idea. I do not think there is a way to know how close it would be between baker and hardin. He offers a resolution and says, we congratulate hardin on his victory and we recommend baker as a nominee in two years. Before hardin is even sworn in, he has a resolution of this hanging over his head. And he announces he will not serve a second form term. And if hardin gets a turn and baker gets a turn, who gets a turn after that . Abraham lincoln. So now he has to wait until 1846. Lincolns slogan, turnabout is fair play. He is not going to try to take shots hardin. They agree on the issues. Everybody in politics knows that sometimes when you are in a political primary, the toughest fight are between those in their own party. He stays away from that, lincoln stays away from negative campaigning. He says, turnabout is fair play. It works. Hardin decides not to run again. Lincoln in 1846 is the unanimous choice in illinois. And he has to go up against a democrat, the guy was named peter cartwright. He is a preacher, not like any you have seen before. He is a guy that has had his tent revivals interrupted by people who he later assaulted. He was a tough guy. There is a story about him getting put up in a swank New York Hotel and he got lost. So he used a hatchet to blaze a trail on the walls so he would know how to get back to his room. This is who lincoln has to go up against. [laughter] chris and the lincoln is actually very successful. He has the biggest majority in the district, bigger than bakers majority and hardins majority, now he has a gear and a year and a half until he is sworn in. He rides the circuit and he continues to go to court. He continues to try these cases and handle cases. Tend to the affairs of his family. The last case that he handles before he heads to washington is a slave case. Think about this. It will be incredibly important when we see how Abraham Lincoln, where he is at after he leaves congress. So malcolm was a slave owner from kentucky chasing a slave of his in the illinois court, trying to bring him back to kentucky. And lincoln his entire life, he is exposed to slavery, he is born in kentucky and he spent some of his earliest years in kentucky. He grows up in a county where there are 750 people and 1000 slaves. And he grows up near the cumberland road. He could see people shackled, on their way to wherever they were going. He saw it up close. It was something lincoln was familiar with. And lincoln goes down to new orleans as a riverboat captain, and he sees the biggest slave market in north america in new orleans and he sees the brutality of slavery and he believes it is wrong, but he also recognizes that there are laws in place and he believes this gentleman has a case, said he represented mr. Madsen. You would never see Something Like this from lincoln after he leaves congress. We will talk about what happened, soon. December of 1847, Abraham Lincoln is a member of the 30th congress. What is so fascinating, one of the most interesting things is who is there with him. So the most famous member of the 30th congress is John Quincy Adams, the former president. The only former president that served in the peoples house. I think it is fascinating because this is the link between lincoln and the founding fathers. A short time they had to spend with one another, this is the link between lincoln and the founding fathers. You can imagine what kind of conversations they could have had. Lincoln was so fascinated with washington. He was fascinated with the founding generation who got behind the declaration of independence and put together the constitution, who started the new government, so you can imagine what kind of questions he had for John Quincy Adams. John quincy adams shortly into his tenure dies on the house floor, probably right in front of Abraham Lincoln. And i start the book, the prologue, talking about that. I think it is a good analogy. You have this generation, lincolns generation. The one thats going to fight a civil war. They are the first generation that does not have the benefit of the council of the founding generation. All these people with all this experience running the american government, compromising on very serious issues, they were gone and they were left to settle the questions on their own. Lincoln serves not only with John Quincy Adams, but also with a man named Alexander Stevens. Stevens will go on to serve as the Vice President of the confederacy. If anybody how many people have seen the Lincoln Movie . Yes, its an excellent movie. When lincoln is in negotiations at the end and he is speaking with commissioners from the confederacy, one of them is actually stevens who was lincolns best friend in the house of representatives, as close as two people could be. They were both whigs. And as we will talk about later, they both did a president ial campaign together. Lincoln served with a jefferson davis, who was in the u. S. Senate. And he became the president of the confederacy in america. Lincolns second Vice President , the man who replaced him, andrew johnson. He was a member of the house with Abraham Lincoln. So many of these people that would later become critical in the civil war would become important to lincoln and his rise to the presidency, they were there in the 30th congress with him. It is fascinating to watch him interact with these people before any of them could imagine what role they would play later in history. So what are the major issues when he goes to congress . Nothing is bigger than the mexicanamerican war. They were trying to figure out, what is the endgame in mexico . This is something we could never imagine being in a prolonged war without ideas of how we are going to wrap it up. [laughter] chris that was something that lincoln and his colleagues had to confront. Lincoln was very content to let the matter lay until a result. President james polk said he would treat silence as acquiescence and support for the war. And lincoln could not be silent anymore. So his first major address as a member of congress, he gives something that would be known as the spot resolution speech. After his speech, people thought that that was it for Abraham Lincoln. We have the principle of rotation, these people that served one term a piece and people are already talking about Abraham Lincoln running for reelection. As soon as he gets there. But after the spot resolution speech, no one is talking about Abraham Lincoln staying in congress anymore. Pretty clear that he is not going to run again. But why do they call it the spot resolution speech . Every part of his resolution, talking about the spot where blood was first shed in the mexicanamerican war, president polk said that american blood has been shed upon american soil. So you can picture this country lawyer, now he has a courtroom that is the marbled house of representatives. Which is a statuary hall for those of you that have been to the capital. This was the Meeting Place when lincoln was a member of congress. And you can see a plaque where his desk was on the house floor. He gave the speech from that spot, talking about where the mexican war began. And it was a really disputed territory, was it american territory or mexican territory . Illinois has been a gun ho state for the war. A preacher was praying for the end of the war and he had to stop showing up because they they thought it was negative comments on the war. You can imagine how it was received when Abraham Lincoln makes this a speech. A lot of things come out of the american mexican war, it would send them on a collision course for what followed. One of the things that came out of this was Zachary Taylor. Zachary taylor is a very Unlikely Hero in america. He was somebody that had never voted. He was a rare career military man in a time when the American Military Standing Army was never very big. He made his career there. But he wins battle after battle. And at the top of the list was the battle of buena vista. After this, they wanted to take the rigler troops and send them with a general scott and make an amphibious landing, the largest one in American History up to that point. And leave taylor in the heart of mexico with a reduced force. A decision is made, they will go and destroy taylors army. So Zachary Taylor ends up winning the battle, 41. In the process, john hardin, the former congressman, the one that tussled with Abraham Lincoln in 1846 congressional race, he died. It is one of those incidents, writing about history i am so fascinated by the seemingly small things that conspired to make great things happen on the world stage and in this case, if john hardin had lived, if he had come back to illinois as a hero of the war, i think there was little chance Abraham Lincoln would have emerged as the head of the new Republican Party. Or i think there is very little chance that he couldve been the nominee for senate, twice from the Republican Party. But we will never know because he dies in the final minutes of the battle of buena vista. Zachary taylor gets talked about as a potential president ial candidate. Lincoln, along with Alexander Stevens, the future Vice President of the confederacy, they are among the first seven supporters of Zachary Taylor and the house of representatives. So why the reluctance to embrace this war hero . A guy that could be the ticket to victory . Simple, we do not know anything about where he stands. The party is against slavery and Zachary Taylor owns slaves, hes one of the biggest slave owners in the country. He is opposed to the he led the war. You can imagine there is reluctance to embrace this guy. Lincoln, remember this guy we placed on a pedestal, he said we have tried running on principle long enough, let us try winning. [laughter] chris and so lincoln and the others, they call themselves the young indians. So they try to round up support for Zachary Taylor. There is another alternative. Henry clay is making his final bid for the presidency. Henry clay, former speaker of the house, former secretary of state and the founder of the whig party. The guy who embodied their ideals. In fact, Abraham Lincoln said that he was a man for whom i have fought for my entire adult life. Well, lincoln knows that clay cannot win. And while lincoln doesnt claim to have any special knowledge about what Zachary Taylor believes, he knows that that taylor can win. The choice is not between having a perfect whig party and Zachary Taylor, but the choice between having a democrat they know disagrees with them and a whig party member who they know agrees with them. And so if nothing else, they will help to build up the whig party. The whigs in the 1840s, win their first president ial race. And of course, William Henry henderson dies after 40 days. And they had not given it a lot of thought to who his Vice President would be. He is basically a democrat, john tyler, who is kicked out of the party. And they are not able to win a president ial race since, so in their existence they have had the presidency for only about 30 days. They are eager for a winner. And while this person is closer to our beliefs, this person can win, so it was something that the Political Parties were still struggling with even in the 1840s. So what were the other issues . Well, shortly before the commencement of the mexicanamerican war, polk wins the presidency on this manifest destiny, they are destined to go to the pacific and the country is destined to grow and one of the things he says he will do is adjust the border with oregon. Oregon at this point is being administered jointly with the United Kingdom and polk backside of the treaty. Remember the famous slogan . Line of latitude that they were going to stick to, but it never came close. It went into british columbia, almost alaska. So we have a brandNew Territory of oregon. Anytime the u. S. Acquires territory, they have a problem. The very fragile keys that keeps the union together is the missouri compromise at this point. During the presidency of jameson monroe, missouri came in as a slave state. So they come up with a plan. Out of this whole louisiana territory, they say we are going to draw a line in slavery will be permitted below this line, but not above this line. Missouri can come in as a slave state. Maine can come in as a free state. And this fragile peace keeps the union together. Now america has all this New Territory, starting with oregon. And lincoln and his colleagues stick to their guns and they are fighting back and forth on how it will be constituted. One of the principles that they issued was this, it sounds absurd, but it provides that a New Territory is not going to have slavery. And if so lincoln and his colleagues are actually able to win it in the organization of the oregon territory. That is the climactic issue in lincolns first term as a member of congress. He is getting his feet under him. He is giving a major address on the war. You see him standing up with the taxpayers against special interests to force congress to give them a contract that the postmaster general was not willing to give them, something i thought was fascinating. And while lincoln is a member of congress, he lived in a place that is nicknamed abolition house. The boarding house gets the nickname based on the people that lived there. Joshua giddings is the chief among them. Joshua giddings is not a name that americans are very familiar with. It is unfortunate, because at this time Joshua Giddings is the premier abolitionist in the United States. And they end up in the same boarding house. And getting has a profound effect on the thinking of lincoln. Lincoln who believed slavery was wrong, but there is nothing to do to fix it. Well, Joshua Giddings is going to begin working on his thinking and begin the evolution and Abraham Lincolns believes on slavery. So what did lincoln do with the recess of the First Congress . He decides he is going to go all in for Zachary Taylor. So he goes on a Campaign Swing through the state of massachusetts on behalf of Zachary Taylor. And he said he was there to speak with the most elite groups of the country and shake the hayseed out of his hair. We are familiar with illinois as a frontier state. So for the first time in American History, lincoln is speaking before the most intelligent groups in the country the opinion leaders. And he is going there to speak on behalf of Zachary Taylor. What is interesting, he is not there to speak for Zachary Taylor against the democrat. The democrat will not win massachusetts unless a Third Party Candidate by the name of Martin Van Buren, who is running on a new ticket, a ticket that was created to oppose Zachary Taylor, he is trying to convince them that yes, this is a great thing, but Martin Van Buren cant win and Zachary Taylor can win. So we need to make sure that we vote for Zachary Taylor to keep this guy out of the white house. What is interesting, lincoln goes to the Philadelphia Convention that nominates Zachary Taylor. It is in pennsylvania, it is his first trip. He had the chance to go to independence hall, just like many of you have been able to do. Abraham lincoln does a lot of things in this book like we have done as tourists. Lincoln goes to mount vernon as a tourist. Like many of us, he goes and pays respects to George Washington. It is not a National Park at the time, but he is there and the nephew of George Washington is custodian of the grounds and he pays his respects to the first president , just like many of us have done. So he meets a lot of the future people at the convention who will be important. A gentleman by the name of thaddeus stevens, everyone can remember him. He is from pennsylvania. He was portrayed by Tommy Lee Jones in the movie. This is the first meeting, they exchanged their first letters with congressman lincoln. And i was fascinated to be able to write about that. Anyway, after the convention, he is touring massachusetts with his family. He is happy to be reunited with his family. Every member of congress can tell you, when they are elected they have all this good advice, take your family with you and it will be good for you to have your family in washington dc. Leave your family at home, you dont want them getting infected by the swamp and dealing with anything associated with congress. And depending on which member of congress you ask, they will give you contrary advice. Well, lincoln did both. First, mary brought the children with them. He believes that they are sort of getting in his way, mary also had her expectations as well. If he was the most ambitious man in the world, she was the most ambitious woman in the world. Mary todd lincoln, because of an accident of biology and chronology was born during a time when women couldnt vote, much less participate in the political process. She could not run for office. I think if she was born in a different generation, she would have. But she said, which was asked who she was looking for in a husband, she said she would marry the man who had the best chance of being president. [laughter] chris who would have guessed right . Including stephen douglas, who bested lincoln every time they were up against each other, except for the one time that mattered, 1860 president ial race. Yes, so his family leaves and they go back to kentucky for the second half of the first session. Then afterwards, they join him in his swing through massachusetts on behalf of Zachary Taylor. One more interesting anecdote from the trip, he meets another man that will figure prominently into his life and he goes to a place called Fremont Temple in boston. The speaker in front of him is a gentleman by the name of william stewart, who goes on to be the chief rival of lincoln for the 1860 nomination for president and goes on to serve as a secretary of state. So seaward gives a speech about slavery. They all went back to his hotel room afterwards and lincoln said, you know, i have been thinking about your speech. And i have to say, we probably need to do something more about this slavery issue. It is not enough to be against it. We might actually need to take some action, and i will be the name of the game in the second session. One more interesting thing lincoln does with his break, lincoln is the first and only president ever to patent a device. When lincoln and his family are heading back from massachusetts, he he stops and pays a visit to the Vice President ial nominee of the whig party. That is fillmore, who will be president in two years when general taylor dies. And they are taking a steamer through the great lakes to get back home to chicago. And lincoln sees the captain throwing everything from the boat overboard, trying to get all these, everything underneath in order to buoy over the santa sandbar and he thought, wouldnt it be great if there was a device that could fill up and boost the boat above these barriers. He spent a lot of his time with his tolls so he can do this, send it to the patent office. Of course, he will do this successfully just as congress is wrapping up. He will actually be the first and only president to be awarded the patent for this device. So back to congress and the so back to congress and the winter of 1849. Last session, Zachary Taylor has been elected president. Still major issues to deal with. You could not understand what can thinking about slavery, you can not see the movie and wonder why he was so dedicated. Even at the expense of a prolonged civil war. Unless you are familiar with his time and career and 30 of congress, lincoln actually comes up with with a bill to abolish slavery in the district of columbia. And. He is landau to the u. S. Government and at the end of the seminole war he can the fan basically escape and he is looking for money from them federal government to compensate him. L, so, congress handles all the claims. Congress was in charge of hearing claims. There is a claim for the owners of this lame name antonio pachuco. Hes a brilliant scholar and ends up as a slave. He is lent out to the u. S. The seminolering war he can the fan basically escape and he is looking for money from them federal government to compensate him. Abraham lincoln said the law is the law and we have to compensate this man. But now this new thinking of compensating the family of the man of into the pachuco. But at abolition house serve meals every day one of the waiters was of black slave working there to work off his freedom. We dont know his name. His price was 300 in a 60 a way. He was kidnapped at gunpoint and said the way as a slave. We dont know if he was freed by the union army or died, we dont know but imagine this guy who was serving your food he tells you about his wife and he is free than one day she tries to get you to help find him because he has been kidnapped at gunpoint how could do not appreciate this evil for what it is the house needs to be stopped. Lincoln is the member of a First Congress to deal with the fiscal cliff. We live in a time of debt ceiling, standoff, a government shutdown, lincoln in the 30th congress were the first with the major appropriations bill and it is a clean bill that whigs saw tries to increase the payment for those offices they think a will hold. Nothing too controversial. But walker from wisconsin and attaches a rider prohibiting, excuse me allowing president polk to establish the New Territory that we have gotten from the mexicanamerican war to organize it in a way he sees fit. President pulled thinks we should extend the line to the pacific ocean. So right now in arizona would be slave territory. With the Intermountain West and california and if we will allow slavery. Lincoln every single time votes against the bill and is willing to shut down the government. The house goes back and forth the house tries to change it up to leave it ambiguous but either way the government will shut down. When lincoln polls of special session was no sooner than july 4th but in march space be sworn in for a yearandahalf nobody would get there before summer you have diplomats leaving every consulate overseas and shutting down and the laughingstock of the world but is willing to accept this rather than open new acres to slavery. Its popular to be accused of using it for political reasons especially in a state like ellen but lincoln in no way was the slave states would not have proceeded unless from the convictions of his car. Of his heart. He deals with the first fiscal cliff and a fight if congress is even Still Congress. Some are saying are we Still Congress . Today is march 1st march 4th. The government will shut down. The majority did not agree with the interpretation the bill goes to president polk he signed as his last duty in office. Sworn in on monday there was a great inaugural ball and lincoln is the great Party Planner as a littleknown fact. He raised money for the Washington Monument and he had money to help get it started but was there for the cornerstone july 4, 1848. He was on the Planning Committee for Zachary Taylors ball. One of the biggest parties in washington and lincoln goes home at 3 00 in the morning he can find his cloak but not his hat. So he has to walk along the in the cold when french never will nevernd forgot the story weve never forget the sight of that man walking out in Judiciary Square just in all these 12 years later the festivities would be for him. Nobody saw the path he would take. The book concludes with him trying to get a job in the administration. This time there is a talk of a meteor, it does during the years. Destroying the earth. He is trying very hard to get this job. It is a good thing he fails. If he is an washington, d. C. Is a bureaucrat, he is not the nominee for senate. And probably never becomes president. He went back to the hotel and laid on his bed for an hour and thought it was the end of his career. History had Something Better in store for mr. Lincoln. Oneterm congressman and headed back to illinois like nothing happened. He also becomes the first president to argue a Supreme Court case. I think this is great as a lawyer with statutes of limitation most recently the 1990s and i bet they did not even realize whos the famous lawyer was who argued it. This is the story of Abraham Lincoln where he came with the politicians and at the presidency 12 years later only this experience watching president polk up close is what he has going for him and watching Zachary Taylor put together administration i will take questions. Thank you for your attention [applause] you talk in your book Abraham Lincoln was a great storyteller. What was the favorite stories you learned in your research . He is a great storyteller. He was so funny and could entertain just about any crowd. He had a story for every occasion. One of the places he likes to hang out in congress during the long boring speeches was the House Post Office just adjacent to the floor of the house where people could kick back and gossip and talk about people and lincoln goes in there around christmas 1840s seven. In 1847, he works up courage to tell stories and self. People remember that he was a captain during the black hawk war. Back across the mississippi river. They are quickly putting together a militia. Linkedin is elected captain which he considered an honor greater than anything he had done. Is elected captain. Hisalks about guiding troops across the prairie. Any come to the fence and they are trying to figure out the command to get them through the fence. He cannot come up with it. He has got all these men behind him. These are people that are supposed to trust him. He cannot come up with it he gets to the fence and he says the company is dismissed for two minutes. At which point it will reassemble on the other side of the fence. Ughter] that was a story that someone remembered decades later when , after he became famous people started writing down stories about him. And trying to remember what they could about this man. He was anm believe extraordinary person and destined for big things. Well before it was obvious to others. Other questions some people . The dred scott decision. Where does it fit into the timeline . Scotth, so the dred decision was something lincoln was opposed to. When lincoln is a member of congress there are a number of positions you can take about what we do with the american territories and how slavery fits into that. Wouldve been the most extreme you can take slavery anywhere in the territories. Congress does not have the power to ban slavery. The missouri compromise is unconstitutional. That is what the Supreme Court finds. The exacts done opposite. He believes the matter what we are not expanding slavery. Dozens ofens and opportunities to vote for the wilmot proviso. He always does so. Lks plan. Resident po james buchanan, the secretary of state. He is of the same mind. Es buchanan as president dred scott comes down a couple of days after he is sworn in. And he thinks it is a good thing. He thinks it is going to be a good thing for his presidency. Of course, this means by the time he leaves the presidency, seven states will secede from the union. He thinks this is brilliant. James buchanan is the quintessential lawyer. The Supreme Court decided. Therefore, no one will be upset about this anymore. We will have slavery all over the territories. The opposite is true, right . Is a post. Dred scott fuels the Republican Party, the rise of the Republican Party in the north. Defeat of the Democratic Party and the north and paves the way for Abraham Lincoln to become president. Wase is something lincoln opposed to and paves the way for the civil war and his presidency. Did lincoln ever get a bill passed or have any accomplishments that had a lasting effect after he Left Congress . He had a number of bills passed. The conventional wisdom is that Abraham Lincoln is a mediocre congressman. Every history, they cannot pass up the idea of saying he is mediocre. I think he was an excellent congressman. I know this is not the most exciting thing to a 21st century academic that lincoln is the driving force between on the best post office bill an ominous post office bill. We get mail anywhere we left. Time, limited mail routes dictated where you lived in where you could do business. And lincoln created, he was one of the people in the post Office Committee which was the Major Committee he was a member of,. Hes able to craft this bill. He runs into a number of cedural setbacks, but also he gets assigned signed by the president opening up new routes. That is larger responsible, ive held that in my hands. His handwriting is all over it. It is really interesting to see lincoln talking about what would this take to actually get your vote . So, lincoln could wheel and deal with the best of them like we see in the movie. He also worked on some of these bills to, say people in his district who believe the federal government over the money. One of the major roles the congressman play today is that doing constituent services, doing casework. Lincoln actually would go and apply for patents. He would get your passport. Hed go ask the secretary of state for your passport. A much Smaller Government back then. Somebody i know in politics has a great saying about members of congress that are good at home or good in washington. He things very few people are both. Lincoln is somebody who was good at home and good in washington. Lincoln is one of these people, his speech wishes roundly a considered a dud of a speech, but i think it was very influential. It was part of the movement by a whig party to stop the mexicanamerican war. The whig party is able to adopt a resolution to say the war was unconstitutionally begun by the president. Lincoln helped stop the mexicanamerican war. To mexico city to negotiate. Polk decides they take too long. Now he wants the whole country of mexico. There are certainly a lot of people are in this all mexico movement. Polks openminded to the idea. We know at least he wants all the western United States, but s looking at maybe annexing all of mexico. A very united different United States today. The whigs are trying to tap the brakes. Nicholas waits for his replacement who never comes. Toy cant spare the men escort him back to veracruz. Hes stuck there. After a while he decides, i am going to negotiate the end of this war. And he does. The treaty gets sent back to president polk. Hes in a rage. Polk refuses to compensate him for all of his expenses. It took the Taylor Administration to compensate him for his expenses. But theyve got polk corner. Polk cant not sent this treaty to the senate after he publicly set the terms. Et everything he asked fors before he changed his mind and try to get the whole thing. So, theyre very successful, lincoln and his colleagues very successful. His hands are all over that post about. H postal bill. Hes a player on this issues of war and peace that dominate the 30th congress. Yes . Having followed your work, desk with some pretty good characters. Shelby foote. How do interact with these guys . What is your process for finding yourext trunurn in narrative . This was great fun to research. I started by saying, this is iny the third Lincoln Congress book you have so many biographies. How do you add value to the lincoln story . I decided i was going to look at the letters of his colleagues, people who are not famous. In many cases nobody has look through their papers to see what they might have about Abraham Lincoln. One example. One of his housemates that abolition house. His papers are in harrisburg, pennsylvania. And i called the curator, asking questions about it is there anyone more familiar with this collection . Its worth the trip to harrisburg. He said, in 30 years no one has looked at these. Im heading to harrisburg looking at one of lincolns housemates papers that no one has looked at. So, that was one of the things i tried to do. About 13 states. Someone asked me if i had to go to all 50 states the answer was no. I decided i was going to leave out the hawaii delegation. Hope they didnt write anything too revelatory. I will sit in libraries and have my book open. Ill have a word file for notes. I will read the letters. Nobody even marker felt microfilmed them. Id much rather handle the letter. When i see something interesting, i type it down. And i have a note where i got it. Then i put those into a word file. Then i print them all off. And i will cross off each footnote in the use it somewhere in the manuscript. For this, it is like owning in a house. We start with the foundation. I found all of the lincoln correspondence from 1843 to 1846 and use those as a foundation. I put them in chronological order. That is the easiest way to understand the stores. So, i used that as a foundation and Everything Else i found, the correspondence of other people, that diary of joshua giddens. The newspaper that ran transcriptions of congress. The house journal. Then when that is then you try to turn it into a book. Hopefully i have been successful in doing that. That is a good question, thank you. It has been a fun question. First i did not know what the heck i was doing. With the first book i did not know what i was getting myself into. With the second book i had a pretty good process. Im looking forward to doing a similar process with a third book. Im of the understanding that lincoln was one of the Paul Beresford John Quincy Adams. What relationship did they have lincoln was one of the pallbearers for John Quincy Adams. Ive seen that. The chooses he is not a pallbearer for John Quincy Adams. He is on a committee to oversee the funeral arrangements. So, they have a member from every state on the committee. I think lincoln gets that because he is the only whig from illinois. I think that is why he gets the honor. T quickly, even though there were not 50 states there were a lot of politicians and the room. They created a subcommittee that hammers out the finer details. And lincoln is not on the subcommittee. A lot of it is speculation. I was able to put the two of them at a party where quincy adams was sitting in a chaise by the door, greeting everyone who came in. I know another story. Remember the Hampton Roads conference you see at the end of the Lincoln Movie . There is a story that Alexander Stevens reminded lincoln of, because they had not seen each other since they were in congress. Remember that time the illinois delegation was having a fight over how to pronounce the name of illinois . I said, you know how i feel. There is illinoise. They bring in John Quincy Adams to mediate the dispute, former secretary of state. Before we had iphones. They asked him, how do you pronounce illinois judging by you guys, i think it is pronounced all noise. Would have lincoln been there for that most likely. Lincoln was at the party were John Quincy Adams. I think lincoln would have saw them out. He was very good about finding mentors, finding people in the law, in politics to guide him. Lincolns father was an orphan who worked on farms. Lincoln was raised on farm work, someone who taught himself how to read. So he knew if he was ever going to be the man he wanted to be he was have to he would need to find mentors, find people to aid him. I cant imagine a better person than John Quincy Adams. Visitors to the house gallery describes seeing him and being in awe. This former president with such high stature, someone who had worked for president s washington, madison, monroe, who had himself been president. Theres no question that lincoln would have saw him out but as for what they talked about i tried to make the best guess i can but unfortunately neither of them ever was quoted. One of the leading abolitionists. H e was. Absolutely. John quincy adams was a huge abolitionist. And someone who i think could have inspired lincoln in that regard very much so. You briefly mentioned lincoln s father just now. Anything can share about lincoln s relationship with his dada as adults . I know it is not a great one. We do not know exactly what happened. When lincolns racing back to washington at the end of the book, trying to get the appointment from Zachary Taylor he stops up by his fathers home because he hears his father is ill. He does go out of his way to do that and maybe even jeopardizes his chance of getting this major appointment. I will say in the final hours of his fathers life, lincoln said i do not think any good can come from me going and being there. Lincoln was someone who dealt fairly with everybody he ever encountered. Someone who was renowned for his integrity. Someone who was renowned for having a very forgiving nature. Lincoln was someone who never held grudges. If you can only imagine what might be the case that would hav e set lincoln against them to the point where he does not show up when he is dying. He passes away. We know it is not a great relationship. I think it is one of the reasons one of the historians i met. I have two things against lincoln. I dont like the way he treated his father and he was too indulge in of his children. Im convinced one of the reasons he was so indulgent of us children is because he had an unhappy childhood. He one of his children to be happy. When they were living in d. C. , they drove the people in evolution house crazy. Quote them i wont verbatim because cspan as a familyfriendly channel. If lincolns kid to go went to the bathroom in his hat, he would think it is hilarious. Fairly well known what lincoln did as president and what he thought of president ial power. What did he think of president ial power when he was in the legislative branch . Such an interesting question. Because lincoln gets accused of trampling on the constitution as president. One thing lincoln is mindful of and one of the thing he learns from polk. And i talk about this in the book because i wanted to know what lessons lincoln took to the presidency with him. He though polk try to use congress as a rubberstamp. So, one of the things lincoln tried to do was to be solicitous of congress, to keep them in the ifp, try to make him feel as they are part of the decisionmaking process even when he made the decisions for them. He know, it works when becomes president. He issues a call for a certain number of volunteers and money to fund the civil war. Congress increases the number of troops and increases the appropriation. And one of the things lincoln foughty mindful polk publicly with Zachary Taylor. Polk basically could not make a public announcement about any of the generals without fighting them. Theres when phil scott, Zachary Taylor. At one point, he tries replace both of them with a democratic general. Really tries to politicize the war. Lincoln tries to politicize it in a different way. Lincolns first reappointments are all democrats. So, either an important ethnic group in the country, a lot of them were elected officials, people who had constituencies. Because lincoln knows when you lose public support for a war and lose, congress, when you lose congress, the war is over. So, lincoln knew he could defeat the south, he knew he could restore the union but not with his hands tied behind his back. For those reasons, lincolns mindful of what is happening in the white house will he is a member of congress. Hes very successful in avoiding polks problems. Wasou wrote that lincoln very depressed and unhappy about his marriage to mary todd. Does that relationship get better . You know, it was always a really difficult relationship. At one point, he did attempt to break it off. He felt so bad. It is not like breaking up with someone today. If you had gone all the way to be engaged to be married and it was broken off, a woman was damaged goods. He knew he damaged her prospects for marriage. He knew he made a very unhappy. Lincoln was one of the sweetest could notever lived, live with himself knowing he made someone so unhappy. When he finally decides he will follow through and merrier, marry her, hes getting ready at his best friends house. His best friends son says, where you going . Lincoln goes, to hell, i suppose. You can imagine what this little boy said. [laughter] spent a lot of time on the eighth circuit, more than he needed to. He spent half the year riding courthouse to courthouse across. Every other member of the circuit if they could get home for the weekend they would do it. Not lincoln. He would sit in these Little County seats all by himself. The weekends on any prefer that to being with his wife. I know he loved her but it was a relationship that gave him great problems. Were almost out of times. If you want to learn more, i encourage you to go to lincoln for congress. Com. W createde a fake website for Abraham Lincoln. I basically used all of his own words. If lincoln were using the web to communicate, we think this is what it wouldve looked like. American watching history tv, 48 hours of programming on American History every weekend on cspan 3. Follow us on twitter